Although we think of love as an emotion, it is really more like a drive. Emotions come and go, whereas drives, like love, tend to persist. All emotions are associated with distinct facial expressions, whereas love is not. Love (like all of the basic drives I have discussed in this blog) is difficult to control. Furthermore, the most recent scientific research indicates that all drives, including love, are associated with activation of the brain pathway called the mesolimbic dopamine pathway.
Attraction: the first stage of love
Love, like other drives, is associated with wanting to get something. That something we are talking about here is a partner. The first stage of love, then, involves seeking out a partner. Scientists have called this the attraction phase. It is important for each person to understand how the attraction phase works within himself/herself. There are both conscious and unconscious parts to attraction.
The attraction phase involves the senses, primarily sight and smell. There may be chemicals that activate the brain through smell that we are not consciously aware of. Similarly, we may like the way someone looks and not be sure why. Our conscious mind and unconscious mind may be looking for different things in a partner. The unconscious mind plays a big role in our partner selection process.
It is important to realize that we can be taken over and captivated by attraction. Some of the symptoms of attraction or falling in love are “butterflies in the stomach,” clammy hands and racing heart. These symptoms are direct evidence of the physical nature of the love drive.
There is pleasure associated with getting the objects of our drives. In the brain, this pleasure involves many important chemicals like dopamine and the endorphins. Contact with the lover is also pleasurable because it releases oxytocin. This chemical produces reward by calming us down. (It doesn’t matter that it is the lover’s fault that we need calming.) Oxytocin is a powerful, natural anti-anxiety chemical.
The attraction phase usually lasts no more than 18 months. The reason for this is that it is too consuming. People have to be able to function, and when our energies are over focused on a lover, we aren’t as productive in other areas. Furthermore, the attraction phase has only one purpose. That is to get us hooked. When the pleasure chemicals and anxiety relieving chemicals are released in the brain, a compulsion is formed. That compulsion is to be with the lover. So the love that starts out as pleasure in the company of the lover becomes a compulsion. When the compulsion phase sets in, we feel compelled to stay with our lover no matter what. That is when we know “bonding” has taken place.
So the stages of love basically involve attraction, followed by great pleasure, followed by bonding. I would add a fourth stage, caretaking. Normal people feel an urge to take care of others toward whom they feel bonded.
Sociopaths and love
Ability to love, then, involves attraction, pleasure, bonding and caretaking. How is the sociopath’s experience of love different from what I have described? First, I never met a sociopath who did not do exactly what he/she wanted. I have to conclude from this that the attraction phase operates relatively normally in the sociopath. In fact, many sociopaths hang around only as long as the attraction phase lasts. There is evidence that emotional arousal is abnormal in sociopaths. So I would also assume they experience the pleasures of attraction without the “butterflies.”
It is blatantly obvious that sociopaths do not bond in the usual sense. Their love drive is thus stuck in the attraction gear and they can go no further than attraction. But don’t stop there! As the sociopath experienced the pleasures of his/her latest object of attraction, his/her drive for conquest was also activated.
The sociopath simultaneously experiences pleasure in attraction and pleasure in conquest or power. In other words, although the sociopath cannot form a love bond, he/she can acquire a possession which he/she strongly believes belongs to him/her.
If I enjoy something and I work very hard to get that thing, it is mine! I feel entitled to something I enjoy and work for. That thing also should keep giving me pleasure and satisfaction in order to stay wanted. If a possession is no longer pleasant and appealing to me, I throw it in the garbage. Now, if someone breaks in and tries to steal my possessions, I am angry and feel violated. Does any of this sound familiar?
Unlike the caretaking of the true love bond, the caretaking behavior of sociopaths is only self serving. I take care of my stuff because I have to. If I want people to envy me, I make the outside of my house look good and wax my car. Then people driving by see the great looking house with the new car in the driveway and think I really have it made. My stuff gives me status. If I don’t take care of my stuff, my status goes down.
So again we see that although sociopaths have a rudimentary love drive, in the end their drives are all about power and status. Don’t be fooled by the occasional care taking behavior, it is not motivated by empathy or a true love bond.
Newstepmom, it isn’t as black and white as you may think. That’s why it took me 45 years to “see” my parents.
When I first moved back with them, they hugged me, swore to protect me, brought me breakfast in bed. Fresh papaya every morning, sliced lovingly by mommy dearest. Dinner was brought to my room. Money was offered daily.
Growing up, my “overprotective” parents, worried constantly about our safety. They sacrificed themselves into poverty so we could go to private schools. My father worked six days a week for 17 years. My mother prays the rosary on her knees every night since I’ve been alive. Does that sound like a family of N’s and P’s? it is.
They are filled with envy. It’s just impossible to see it through the facade. They are like magicians that distract you with one hand so they can trick you with the other hand.
My spath was very similar for many many years. Always being loving, attentive and my hero. It makes the evil impossible to see. And they know it. You go into cog dis because that kind of bad cannot coexist with the good they portray. There is only one possible answer: the good stuff is fake, because good people don’t fake evil.
I’m not saying your husband is evil. I can’t possibly know. What I AM saying is that you MUST keep your eyes open and SEE what you are looking at. KNOW that people can fake very very very well. And KNOW that your emotions are what they will use against you. It will be difficult to impossible to see a person that you love, as disordered, especially while you live with them.
Hi skylar, Ox Drover.,
Again, thank you so much for your support and helpful advice and food for thought.
The husband and I are actually already in counseling. And he acknowledges that it is largely due to conflict about his ex.
Today he noted he would deign to say yes to my every request regarding his interaction with her. And, has noted he sees the threads of manipulation that she drops … everywhere (I pointed out several as I illustrated this in our conversation).
That said, I do not know how good this counselor is who we are seeing regarding knowing how to navigate this kind of person and their input into our and the kids’ lives. He’s great in other ways so far (only week 3), very into John Gottman who I respect very much.
I want to find a few things, like a divorce attorney (for advice on divorce decree solidifying (to document “promises” she made to my husband re college expenses) + potentially a counselor especially for help regarding the kids and us too, but I do not see those recommendations on this site, in spite of the Directory having a page. If anyone knows the link I must be missing, that’d be great. I only see a few across the country, rather than a few in each metro area, oddly.
Thank you so much, again. He does not seem evil, though yes, does seem potentially narcissistic-ish / very ego, too often for comfort. But, overall, very very nice. As such, stayed married to the evil doer (as I sometimes call her), even while he “felt” her cheating on him, and giving her everything he had, and more.
I guess I am wondering why you folks are guessing he might be evil, too, because he doesn’t so easily see in her what I do, in spite of having been completely annihilated by her financially, and by her lying to him… ? Are you saying (?), too far sucked in, and so now breathing her evil… kind of? It’s like vampire-ism, then?(!)
skylar, I also do not know what “cog dis” is, is that cognitive … disabled.. ?
The real question is, why in the world didn’t I see this in him prior to marriage? I saw her, even if I didn’t know the term yet, I saw it, crystal clear, as soon as he told me the story of their marriage. I guess that’s fairly clear though — I didn’t push my theory (not to mention know it fully still), yet. So I couldn’t see his reaction. … yuck. I’m happy we see the counselor tomorrow, my fingers are crossed he has some knowledge and experience with this horrifying thing!
Thanks so much, you skylar, Ox Drover. I really appreciate your perspectives, even if they are very scary!
Newstepmom,
I’m not seeing you husband as evil, only as someone who triangulates relationships. This is done, I think, for drama. N’s are addicted to drama, so that is one clue that he is an N.
N’s are often the victims of spaths, since they provide lots of drama, which the spaths need too. If the spath finds a better supply, she will leave the N, but spaths never completely let go of a victim, they like to keep them hanging on. After all, she is completely familiar with his buttons and exactly how to manipulate for little doses of drama. She no longer wants him, but it’s important to her to know that she can have him anytime she wants, so she keeps pushing a button here and there. My spath called it “maintenance”, usually referring to sex but it could be anything that created just enough emotion to keep me bonded to him.
There is nothing you can do about what the spath is doing. And really you can’t change your husband’s behavior. Believe me. I know enough N’s to tell you that they can speak disparagingly about N behavior and spath behavior and yet they exhibit it continually themselves. Even education doesn’t seem to work because they feel entitled to behave however they feel like.
Your only hope is to control your own reaction. In other words, give them NO REACTION, use gray rock or give them an unexpected reaction. The key is not to participate in the triangulated relationship – AT ALL. You may think, initially, that you are letting her “win”, but that’s not the case because nobody can win at triangulation, if you don’t play. And she knows that, as does your husband.
Refuse to participate, show no emotion when it comes to the ex-spath.
Edit: Cog/Dis is Cognitive Dissonance. It’s what you experience when what you feel/believe about something is directly opposite to what you know is the actual truth.
Dear New step mom,
I’d like to ask a couple of questions for clarification.
First, how old are these kids that she “promised” to help put through college?
Second, how long did you date/know him before you married him?
Third, how are the kids behaving in school, at home, with each other
Fourth, how do you get along with the kids? Do they show you respect or defiance or a mixture of both? How do they do at school?
How old is your husband? How old is the x wife, and how old are you? Have either of you been previously married before his marriage with the X?
I’m not just being nosey, because the answers to these questions will give me some hnits about the interactions and past history which might shed some light on the situation.
I am glad that you are in counseling. The “resources” link here is by referrals from people here and then the person referred has to agree to be listed as well.
Since you have only been married for 3 weeks (?) I am assuming that you haven’t been in the counseling very long either, but apparently this problem with her has come up AFTER the marriage? Or did you see it before the marriage?
I do wish I could say that this will be an “easy fix” but nothing in human behavior is easily changed, and we have NO CONTROL over other’s behavior, only our own. What Sky calls “gray rock” is just to be as BORING as a gray rock, no emotion, no reaction. In other words, just STAY COMPLETELY out of the interactions between your husband and his X (and that may be difficult to do since it does effect your life as well. Plan a day out, she cancels the plans by dumping the kids on him, or keeping the kids from going…either way, she controls your schedule. You can’t stop that sort of behavior and even being boring about it, not reacting may take months or years to finally be boring enough she gets no more fun out of it. Sometimes when you bore them they will UP THE ANTE for a while, if you don’t notice a level 1, they go up to level 2 or level 3…..if it used to work, they figure they will just do it harder or more frequently and EVENTUALLY it will work again.
You realizing that there “is a problem” is STEP ONE, and working on how to have a healthy relationship with your husband while still having to deal with a manipulator in the mix is a GREAT START, but I am not going to tell you it will be EASY. It most likely will not.
I suggest that you read articles here about psychopaths, and about dealing with them. Go to Dr. Leedom’s web site (there is a link under blog rolls) called “parenting the AT RISK child” and a child who has a parent with a personality disorder is at risk genetically for having some level of PD themselves (usually seen at or after puberty) The chaotic environment that a child has with a PD parent is also another factor so learning about how to have a healthy relationship with the kids and help them to form attachments,, and develop a moral conscience as well as encourage the development of empathy and compassion is a big job.
Good luck and I hope that your husband will also be on board with you in making your marriage a healthy one and in fostering normal development in his children. God bless.
Hi skylar, and Ox Drover — thank you again. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your advice and what I’m learning from you. Thank you, really.
I feel really good that, while ego-ish, which may feature some narcissism, my husband doesn’t really disparate the ex-wife spath, but he does say that while he sees that she is being manipulative, that it really doesn’t bother him. And this, he says he allows to continue because he paid through the nose to be able to continue having a “civil” relationship with her in spite of her hideousness to him through the years, for the sake of the kids.
That said, and while he mostly does ignore her, and rarely responds to any emails, and they almost never talk, when she does ask him to do anything for her, or trade custody days, he mostly says yes unless he can’t per his schedule. Now, I’d asked him NOT to call her back only because I saw her recent request as simple manipulation. He did acknowledge this later, and has agreed to never do that going forward.
But, I think it’s kind of hard-wired into him, having been essentially ruined by this monster ex. Is that something that happens in this spath world? The victims get irreparably damaged by these creatures?
I think that he and I see that the kids realize that he and I have a pretty good relationship for the most part, we are always laughing, and that I respect him, and that he does a lot for me. That said, he certainly ran rings around the ex wife spath in an effort to make their life together wonderful as well, so they are used to seeing him cow tow to his wives, so I’m trying to get him off to work which is what he loves best, because I don’t see his cow towing to me always is a great example to set for the kids either.
Interestingly, the counselor noted that he may be suffering from a post-traumatic-stress-disorder, and if not, he would frankly be very very surprised if he weren’t suffering in ways he doesn’t fully realize, given the relationship with the ex that he has described to the counselor. That said, this counselor is not an expert in that field to my knowledge, but, he seems pretty darned good, fortunately.
Ox Drover, thank you for your questions. Again, I really appreciate that.
The kids are fortunately pretty good overall. They’re 8 + 11.
I knew him for 1.5 years prior to our marriage, which was 7 months ago.
The kids are pretty good, and behave pretty well at home. I have heard that KID 1 has some behavioral issues at the spath’s house, which I kind of think of as imitation (being a B, the ex/spath contacted my husband asking him how to handle it) and possibly certainly in part because while seeing each other only on weekends, her 3rd marriage [to prior boss] seems quite rocky and they’re fighting almost every week, often quite severely. I’m sure this is disrupting the kids, and am sure they see it as mom’s thing, while I’m happy that for the most part dad and I are always laughing, and recently have taken to dancing daily, so the kids are laughing at us doing that too of course. But we have a lot of fun for the most part.
Both kids behave overall well in our house, less so at mom/spath’s. There is very rarely any issue with behavior at our house. At mom/spath’s house, KID 1 is being bratty and hard to manage, and KID 2 is not doing what either parent there is asking them to do, and being lazy.
They both do pretty well in school. KID 1 has cheated once, and is bossy (the one I see taking after mom, more), but with good grades. KID 1 also I feel like I really need to push to encourage to be able to do things alone, always needing to be near someone, and bossing things around in activities (mom style), and just seems to not be able to foster their own activities to keep themselves occupied. I’m worried about that and hoping I can figure out how to encourage that successfully. KID 2 is overall pretty good, no behavior issues at school, and really good grades. Sees KID 1’s lies and manipulations pretty clearly and speaks with me about them, and does manage alone time very well, with a bunch of solo interests and activities, which is great to see.
I get along pretty well with the kids. They never show me defiance, but they do sometimes kind of ignore me. Now, this is a bigger issues perhaps for me, because I feel like the husband kind of ignores me too, in his [at least up til he promised me he’d no longer respond to her manipulation efforts] often-seen saying yes to ex/spath, and often no to me, even though my efforts and things I recommend are principally only to help us, and his kids. I get along well with his kids. They seem to really enjoy talking with me, and doing things with me when the ex gives us time for that (she’s often requesting them there out of the custody arrangements; shocking I know). I have also told the husband that that has got to stop. He does realize he needs to limit their interactions, the ex and the kids, to allow for as little as possible to leak over to them.
The husband is 44, I’m 45, ex/spath is 42? She has been married 3x, and is currently with that 3rd husband her former boss, and had been married once before she tricked my husband into marrying her [he did not want to, she said she was on the pill]. That was his first marriage.
Okay, again, thanks so much. I hope that the raising of these kids can go well, and they see our relative happiness and laughter as inspirational. I want them to feel safe with us. I’m sure the divorce scared them to death, and I know I’d not leave this situation, even though it’s so much uglier than I really knew when I married this guy! My husband really is [in my mind] a great guy, and while I can see him as a potential victim of these creatures (totally trusting, giving, not questioning enough even when it’s obvious he needs to to be able to guard himself (as with her, continually lying, spending ALL of their money, taking out loans, etc), I feel that I know he is a good man. I just hope he really will be able to give the grey stone consistently to this ex, and continue being the great dad he is to the kids, also.
Dear Newstepmom,
Glad you are seeing a good counselor and working on things to get the marriage to work and the kid situation going well also. It is a big job.
Go to Dr. Leedom’s blog “parenting the at risk chidl” if I didn’/t tell you that already (CRS!) it is listed on the left under blog rolls here. That should help you and your husband too.
I am also very glad that he is working with you in counseling and to incorporate you into the family group, which, unfortunately will continue to include her in one way or another.
New Stepmom,
Your husband does sound very nice. It is a mystery to me why he would even consider putting his ex’s demands over yours but at least he is looking at the situation.
It’s possible he is just a please and avoider. He will be nice to whomever has the biggest stick and he is afraid of her because of his prior experience. Maybe.
Keep reading and educating yourself. Things will eventually clarify themselves, if you do this. My mistake, for 25 years was not looking for answers, I simply accepted things as they were. This was so wrong and for that I was punished for 25 years.
Hi… yes he may be a pleaser and avoider, though I tend to think this woman really put him through the wringer, and that he now feels, as does her “poor” current husband; he’s killing himself trying to please her. She can’t be pleased, yet somehow garners all of these efforts. It was my perception (however, not-yet-educated-enough at this point) that these -paths really do a number on their victims. And/or, that certain personality types are such that they almost don’t care / don’t change their perceptions, ever. I’d read in Snakes in Suits that once the truth comes out about these -paths, their victims don’t even feel malice toward them, and as such, I guess I wonder (and see in my husband) some inability to even change the behavior that’s been so ingrained in him, by this monster. The kids just parrot her… I’m pretty much freaking out about it. Trying to stay as even as possible, esp in front of the kids, though given I know this I see her “reality” in a second, and so trying to translate that to simple goodness re as advice to the kids goes, is sometimes hard. (Without slipping at least to saying her behaviors can be “rude,” if they’re asking me why I’m doing something instead of what “Mom said” I/we should be doing.) Of course each “rude” thing that drops out is her attempts at continued manipulation.
Thanks for the blog notice, I will definitely look up Dr. Leedom’s blog.
I think that everyone here deserves a round of applause…. this topic seems to be SO taboo, and difficult to even be able to mention. For the site to have been set up, and for folks to have been able to see things clearly, is remarkable. I’m not quite sure why I was able to see this so quickly in her, and to investigate it to find out what it is… but I feel good that I was able to.
Best of luck to everyone!
*If anyone sees this and can let me know how I can set my settings her to notify me when someone responds to any post I make, I’d love that. I just need to keep the window open and refresh. Thanks! 🙂
Thanks!!
Dear Newstepmom,
It is difficult to co-parent with these people as they use the children as pawns in the “game.” (to manipulate the other parent) Your husband may have learned some dysfunctional tactics to try to “go along to get along” with her and be TIRED to death of fighting over every darned thing with her. I can relate.
As far as people who are victims NOT having any resentment or malice or anger—most of us have PLENTY OF ANGER, RAGE, MALICE AND EVEN HATE for these people and the damage they have done to us and those we love.
Staying as even as possible around the kids is a good tactic and will take everything that you can muster. The counselor should be able to help you as well with this.
When she does things that are “rude” I would suggest instead of saying “your mom is acting rude” I would say “Your dad and I have decided to do things differently at our house” or “what you do at your mom’s house is up to you and her, but your dad and I make the rules at OUR house.” Kids CAN learn that there are different rules at different houses and learn to respect your rules at your house.
“I realize that your mom doesn’t ask you to put your dishes in the sink after you finish eating, but at OUR HOUSE your dad and I expect you to put your dirty dishes in the sink.” (or pick up your clothes out of the floor, or whatever the rules are) “At our house we do not tell each other to “get farked” so I would appreciate it if you would go sit in your room on your bed until you can apologize to your sister for saying that to her and speak more respectfully in the future”…..etc etc.
okay you guys are going to love this. I hale a cab and the driver is a corrections officer working at a max. security prison. so, i immediately start talking to him about psychopathy and being mind****** by a spath. we joke a bit, and he tells me that i seem, ‘really well adjusted’. SNORT!
this coming from a corrections officer! (although he seemed really well adjusted for a corrections officer..) Anyways made me giggle; not too often I get to giggle about psychopathy in the ‘real’ world.
giggle.