Editor’s note: Lovefraud recently received this email in response to a previous article written by a self-proclaimed sociopath.
I’ve read the article titled A sociopath claims, ”˜We are the uniquely gifted,’ and most of replies to it.
First of all I’d like to make clear that the author of that letter is narcisisstic and quite delusional as he thinks himself some kind of superhuman. But apart from that, most of the things he said are true.
Wouldn’t you use the so called ‘gift’ of manipulation if it ensured you got what you wanted if the goal was otherwise unattainable? After all, it is you who let us manipulate you.
From replies you can clearly see that people are afraid and that’s the first sign of weakness a sociopath would spot. And I must say I’m disgusted by comments such as this: “I say put ’em all together on a tiny little island and they can lie as intelligently as they please and prove how gifted they are to EACH OTHER!!!” Is this what I’m supposed to show pity to?In reply to the comment I say that most sociopaths are clever enough not to try it on each other. Even if we do, it’s more of a game than anything else.
Second of all, saying that we can’t feel love is a shameless lie. We are capable of loving, only it’s in our nature to be suspicious, so it takes time to form a real relationship. Only because you haven’t proven to be worthy of it, doesn’t mean someone else won’t. Claiming that we’re uncapable of being in a relationship or being parents is offensive.
And making a group that demonises us doesn’t exactly give us a reason to ignore our abilities so you could lead happier lives.
Other than that I believe that the idea of us being ruthless, merciless and such, unfortunately comes from our own circles, as some individuals, such as the man who wrote the article, can’t help but brag about his ‘gifts.’ Highly functioning sociopaths won’t let you know what they are, nor will you be able to recognize them in a crowd.
I don’t understand why you put criminals, killers and lunatics as an example of a sociopath and psychopath as most of us are intelligent enough not to ruin our own lives by 1st exposing ourselves and 2nd engaging in a criminal activity. Most of those criminals have far worse diagnosis than sociopathy and psychopathy to go along with these.
And lastly, why should we change? I always looked down on people my age, and as a result I used to read 5 books a week from when I was 10. I still read a lot and am working on improving myself as well as my ‘abilities’ as I admit I have no respect for today’s society in which you’re judged as a freak as soon as anyone realizes you’re too intelligent to watch ‘Big brother’ like the rest of the ‘normal’ crowd.
Flicka-
Although some of the behaviors that could signal character disorder can be seen in children and teens, their behavior does not always raise the red flag. Often, as parents, we try to cope with a specific transgression, and attempt to impart morality in their decision making.
For myself, looking at my son’s “whole picture” did not come to pass with the mental health professionals we worked with. Instead they focused on remedying one off-the-wall behavior after the other.
I think my concept was that maturity would ultimately kick in. I’d laid what I thought was a moral foundation, and saw pieces of it peeking through from time to time, giving me hope.
But character disorder does not get ascribed to a child until they’re at least 18, and even at that time, they are not fully “out there.” For many, young adulthood, early to mid twenties, is when indications that moral choices are not part of their decision making process becomes clear. Their independence, or lack thereof, enables them to more fully display the depth or shallowness of their love and character. Up ’til then, their needs sometimes define their behaviors and they get along simply because of expedience.
It became evident to me that whatever I’d viewed as love and respect from my son had only emanated from his need for my roof over his head. When he discovered how wealthy his father was, my love for him became irrelevant to him. I realized that when he said, “Now that I’m independent, what do I need you for?” It was obvious that love simply did not exist in my child.
Joyce
Wow, Joyce. To hear that coming from your son must have been a heartbreaking moment. To know that a son could be so emotionally shallow is bringing tears to my eyes while my whole being grieves for you about this.
I don’t know you but I’m so sorry that your son would say such a thing.
I’m thankful to say that my own son (21 years old this year) tells me he loves me everyday.
Our children are our true treasure and I’m saddened to know you’ve lost your son to his cold
hearted view of life.
Back years ago, when we were in high school, we had some
pithy sayings that helped us cope with the strangeness of life.
One of these sayings is, “There’s two kinds of people: one uses things and loves people and the other uses people and loves things”
That’s high school wisdom come full circle on yet another day of our lives as they play out.
You know what? As my son says, “Forget haters!”
We can be happy not because of them but fully in spite of them!!
“I don’t understand why you put criminals, killers and lunatics as an example of a sociopath and psychopath as most of us are intelligent enough not to ruin our own lives by 1st exposing ourselves and 2nd engaging in a criminal activity. Most of those criminals have far worse diagnosis than sociopathy and psychopathy to go along with these.
And lastly, why should we change? I always looked down on people my age, and as a result I used to read 5 books a week from when I was 10. I still read a lot and am working on improving myself as well as my ’abilities’ as I admit I have no respect for today’s society in which you’re judged as a freak as soon as anyone realizes you’re too intelligent to watch ’Big brother’ like the rest of the ’normal’ crowd.”
Again,,,,,he/ they are all that and a bag of chips in his mind!! Really? His letter is poorly written, he read 5 books a week when he was 10 but doesn’t say what the books were, LOL!! He also doesn’t say if he has ever read another book since!!! So I wonder what he still reads a lot” of? My guess is that he is single and living in SOMEone’s basement….probably his mother’s, is addicted to internet porn, alcohol and a host of other things.
“Most of those criminals have far worse diagnosis than sociopathy and psychopathy to go along with these.”
Well Einstein, there IS no “far worse diagnosis”. A socio/ psychopath has at least excelled in this one area!
So, imagine a world where there are no more people who are unaware of these losers! Then what?? They can’t survive without people who are unaware! Can’t obtain any of these “otherwise unattainable goals”! That’s what separates the men form the sociopathic/ psychopathic boys Einstein, the ability to set and achieve goals while treating those around you with honesty, consideration and respect. That is the desired outcome of most parents for their children. When you are only able to achieve your “”goals”” by using and abusing others…..you are like a toddler who is still dependent on their mommy to feed, nurture and change them. Which by the way,,,,,my Spathtardx apparently never even learned to wipe correctly as evidenced by the poo marks he left on my sheets. I’m assuming that is why he still lives with mommy at the age of 48…..God only knows what goes on behind THOSE closed doors!
dorothy2, thanks for your post… hilarious….the last sentence had me rolling on the floor…cheers!
I was married to PooPoo man’s brother.
Thanks Hinahina!
As my son left for school everyday, when he was growing up, I told him I loved him. As we hung up from every phone call, I told him I loved him. I ended every email and every text with love.
I was always concerned that if anything happened to me, the last words my son would hear from me would be my love for him.
Researching and writing my book saved my life. It enabled me to get perspective.
Your saying is great, never heard it before. It’s now etched in my memory. How true!
Joyce
JM_Short……..I can’t imagine how painfully heart breaking it must be as a mother in your situation. it’s something I can only imagine as best I can as someone who doesn’t have children but even the attempt to imagine makes me feel deeply sad.
Givers are dependent on themselves to attain satisfaction and contentment in their lives. Takers are just dependent on others period. Needy, greedy toddlers.
Please let me be witness to Spathtard’s life of depravity when Spathmama in no longer there to clean for him, cook for him and change his nappies…….PLEASE??
Ok, in truth, he used a word that begins with f but I cleaned it up for popular consumption…
Annette-
He’s almost 34 and he’s been gone for about 6 years. After 2 years of continual grieving, I decided to write the book. It took about 4 years to complete.
In the beginning, I begged and pleaded for him to accompany me to family therapy. I would have done anything to attempt to work things out with him. He turned a deaf ear, and blocked off my phone and my email.
I have no faith that he’ll improve, although, one day he may simply decide he wants his mother in his life, and expect me to be overjoyed. Knowing what I now know of having relationships with morally disordered people, I can see nothing but continued heartache and risk in that connection. He is physically and emotionally abusive.
So while he may think his absence is entirely his choice, one day he may recognize that it’s simply not so. But that’s the only change that could happen between us…… unless he’s willing to seek help through family therapy, and I seriously doubt that will ever happen.
Joyce
Dear Joyce,
My heart aches for you, understanding your great sorrow. I hate to say it but I truly hope your son never does come around. As you hinted, it would likely cause only more pain. Just think of him as dead; that’s what I’ve had to do with my 5 children and it has helped put them out of my mind.
Dearest Joyce,
If your son is truly a spath, the only way he’ll seek you out again is to use you, when he’s exhausted other sources. He won’t come to his senses if you help him, he’ll only think you are stupid. The best thing you can do for him is show him you are not stupid. He’s an adult, 34 years old and supposed to take care of himself. He needs to face the consequences of his actions.
Love,
Satya
Kathleen,
I went No Contact with my husband 15 monthes ago.Under normal circumstances,I would never do such a thing.But when a person KNOWS how they should treat their wife and children,but DELIBERATELY CHOOSES TO DO THINGS THEIR WAY,WHICH EQUATES WITH ABUSE,you have to take action!I only wish I’d taken action earlier!
My husband ruled us with “an iron sceptor”.He had so much control,that having NO CONTROL must be very difficult for him.He calls my 77 yr old father multiple times a day,to try to get information out of him,but he won’t give it to him.
Well done blossom4th. I went NO CONTACT for 3 months last year, then he called me ‘needing some paperwork’ from me. I regretted it as he starting his control again, using me for sex, money, food. He became more and more arrogant until he used me only when it was convenient for him. Also I believe his lies as he’s such a good actor, then I feel stupid after I think about what he’s said. Now I’ve done 2 months NO CONTACT and will stick to it. That’s great that your father doesn’t give any information about you. I’m sure you agree that after all the abuse, you finally feel in control and know that he is the one who is frustrated not knowing what is happening with you. I didn’t know what a sociopath was until 6 months after he left me after 6 years together. It was an eye opener. I was so confused as to why he seemed so cold and put me down after love bombing me until I found out about lying, manipulative users. He needs to stop bothering your father. Maybe he could change his number or can see the number on the phone screen. I only answer numbers I recognise. I’m glad I found this site.
woops I accidentally hit report, don’t think it sent anything though.
Kathleen,
Yeah the love bombing then total 180 messes with you, cause by then your already in love and think the person is great, and it makes you believe you did something wrong, then they start with threats to end the relationship to keep you scared. Once I moved in with mine and she became pregnant I honestly don’t remember one time that she complimented me or said anything uplifting, it was always negative and criticism and downright nasty at times, being called pathetic and a loser after the person was so nice and fun to be around.
I may have to get a councilor im having real problems getting over this although its only been 3 months, I still at times think maybe I did something to cause this because she always blamed me for everything and would convince me it was my fault, when you hear the lie so much it tends to become truth to you.
Dave,
I’ve considered counselling but didn’t have the confidence that I would be able to find one who really truly understood what we have to go through. I’m glad I found Donna’s site. It’s up to you what you do about it, but just remember this, you did nothing wrong. You did everything right. I spent 7 years believing my ex, trying my best to please him, but it’s futile. Sociopaths just take all they can and manipulate the victim until we think it’s our fault. It isn’t. He was always ‘ill’ but in some vague way. He’s 9 years younger than me but he would spend all day sitting at the computer or lying down watching tv, whilst I did all the work and paid for everything. I would ask how he felt, but he never, ever asked me how I was. He accused me of awful things I would never do, not realising it was him who was doing the bad things and shifting the blame. Don’t believe her lies. If I still had contact with mine, I would believe him until later after I’d thought about it. Keep on this site for support through your suffering, get all your worries off your chest and realise you are a good person and didn’t deserve such bad treatment.
Kathleen,
” but he would spend all day sitting at the computer or lying down watching tv, whilst I did all the work and paid for everything.”
See that angers me, I rarely watched TV, I didn’t even pay for cable anymore, sometimes I would get on puter to play a game for an hour or just blog, but I did most the house chores and ran her company, while carting my kids around too, and was constantly told I don’t have any responsibilities, I don’t do enough, ive got it made living in her house ect ect…granted she did pay for more than me however she always made twice as much too which is one of the reasons I did most of the house work to kinda help make up for that.
Not one time was I ever thanked or anything for what I did to help market that business or the fact I worked for months without getting any complaints (which trust me in that line of work is VERY hard to do, customers are very picky) I guess its time to close this chapter and start writing my own.
Dave,
There’s no ‘reply’ to click on after your latest comment so I hope you read this.
It doesn’t matter how much effort or money you put into the relationship, if you’re dealing with a sociopath it will never be acknowledged. They don’t have the capacity to step into someone else’s shoes. It doesn’t matter who earns the money or most money, it should be teamwork. Don’t beat yourself up. You did your best and if you’d been with an empath like we are, you would expect cooperation and acknowledgement of your efforts. Your case is complicated by having children and I don’t know how to deal with that. You would have to have minimum contact because of the children. But don’t give any information about how your life is going now. Look at me – I’ve been separated more than 2 years – I only discovered what sociopaths and narcissists are a year ago and I’m advising someone else! They never thank you – sincerely anyway. I sacrificed family, finances, time, friends to put him first then when his supply – money – was finishing he went off in search of the next vicitim. When she wasn’t as stupid as me and only handed over 1,000, he left her………..So it goes on. They aren’t normal people. Don’t expect anything from them except trouble. Run as far away as you can from sociopaths.
I know Kathleen, you get nothing in return out of them except a false dream, a fantasy that you try and make come true but it never happens. And yeah when they do actually thank you or apologize its not believable you can kinda tell there is no sincerity in it.
Yes I expected cooperation and acknowledgement but she thought that meant I wanted my ass kissed and it was not what I wanted, I just wanted to know that I was appreciated is all, I got to the point where I didn’t even want that anymore as I told her the least she could do is not come home and tell me how I did nothing if she wasn’t going to ever thank or appreciate.
I don’t know how I stayed so damn long attempting to believe her lies knowing that chances were I was getting played/used/abused. I have never felt so stupid and betrayed in all my life. What I feel now is way worse than that year I spent in prison when I was 20 years old. She helped me out of a dark hole only to put me in one even deeper and darker. I can only hope this doesn’t effect me in possible future relationships, as I want to have a partner for life, but I don’t want to be fearful and nitpicking at every little thing thinking im getting used again.
With experience and all the suffering we went through at the hands of sociopaths it is so hard to trust anyone. I don’t feel the need for a relationship right now, but I never say never. I think it’s fine to go out on dates, but if there is someone you become interested in, just take it slowly before getting too close. I should have trusted my instincts instead of giving him the benefit of the doubt in the beginning. By the time they’ve hooked you, it’s too late as you’re attached emotionally. Love is blind. You find yourself going along with their awful behaviour, even ignoring your instincts. I’d say if any red flags appear trust what your instinct tells you.
Yeah I agree Kathleen, take it slow, and if red flags start popping up take off, cause once your in love you will do whatever to keep it and ignore the bad behavior.
Im not saying I will jump into a relationship right now, I don’t think I could, and it wouldn’t be fair to her (whoever her may be) but I would like one in the future, provided its not with someone with a mental illness.
I feel like I just spent the last 10 years crawling through desert sand seeing a mirage of a beautiful woman who loved me waiting on me to reach her, only for her to disappear when I got there and repeat it the next day.