Last Friday Robin Hoffman interviewed me again on her radio show, The Feminine Soul. We discussed recovering from a relationship with a sociopath. She asked two very important questions, “How do we avoid picking another sociopath in the future?” and “How can we ever trust our instincts again?”
Coincidentally, yesterday I received this letter from a reader:
I got involved recently with a man who seemed to be the opposite of my previous psychopath. All the traits I like, strong, dominant, etc but seemed to have a good heart, and importantly a good history. I checked him out, he had a long service in the police force and a voluntary youth organization, was widely respected and successful.
Recognizing my vulnerability, I kept my eyes and ears open, and my heart guarded.
After 3 weeks I started to spot inconsistencies, tested a bit, and noticed the feeling of cognitive dissonance and didn’t ignore it.
After 6 weeks I ended the relationship, even though part of me was screaming inside “no, don’t do it”. Only afterwards did I discover that not only was he cheating on a wife who had cancer, but he was also cheating on a long term girlfriend, who genuinely loved him and is devastated. He was playing with fire by putting us both on the same webpage and we got chatting without having any idea of the relationships involved and it all came out. I’ve given her a link to saferelationships.com and can only hope she learns from the experience.
I SO proud of myself. I got out before getting involved, so it didn’t hurt. The experience was positive in that I made a different choice, for me. My stop light is starting to work and I’m learning I can trust my instincts again.
There are three parts of ourselves that are “taken” by the sociopath. The first part is the conscious mind. The sociopath fools the conscious mind by lies. It can be very difficult to detect these lies because skilled sociopaths use willing and unknowing accomplices to back up their lies. (This is why it is important for family members to distance themselves from the sociopath and his/her relationships.)
Sociopaths know to pick on trusting people. In general trusting people are loyal and trustworthy. These are good qualities so when your conscious mind is taken, you can be left with a lot of self-doubts. The strategy of carefully checking out people’s claims is a good one but it often takes time to uncover a sociopath’s lies.
Our unconscious minds also get “taken” in the sociopath’s con. Sociopaths are dominant and seductive. These traits may be arousing and attractive. I think that this may be in born. We may be attracted to these traits instinctively just like certain body parts are arousing for some.
Even though the attraction to the dominance and seductiveness of sociopaths may be instinctual, I don’t think we are stuck with it. I was able to train myself to be different and I want to share with you how I did it.
I am somewhat ashamed to say it took me too long to understand that I was drawn to sociopaths because of their dominance behavior. Once I understood this, I set out to find a way to feel differently about them. I wanted to like them less. I had always observed that there were some mental health professionals who were instinctively repulsed by sociopaths and I wanted to know what was different about them.
In studying the literature on dominance behavior and personality I discovered that dominance and empathy are opposed to each other. When dominance motives are in play empathy is turned off. The hormones of dominance also turn off empathy. The opposite is also true empathy and affection also suppress dominance motives.
Armed with this knowledge I set out to study men I knew who had long track records of loving empathetic behavior. I spent hours talking with them about their views of love, life and life’s purpose. I did this until the lesson had sunk in emotionally not just intellectually. A fully human person, male or female is loving and devoted. He or she is able to control dominance motives and express them only when appropriate.
Since this emotional lesson sunk in, I have found myself actually repulsed by dominant people. I no longer admire them or find them entertaining. Instead, I emotionally experience them as they are, shallow and lacking in important qualities.
Sociopaths also “take us” on another level. They manipulate us into forming bonds with them. These bonds are unconscious and chemical- whether the sociopath is a family member or lover. Breaking a bond with a sociopath is very painful. We do not have to be enslaved by our human bonds, we can acknowledge them and realize that at times these bonds have to be broken even though doing so is painful and difficult.
To sum it up then your new wiser mindset may have many aspects to it. Wisdom is a practice as well as a state of mind.
Trimama,
hiring an investigator is NOT NC because he is still occupying space in your mind. I do understand though, your need to know the truth and set your mind at ease. What I think is that it will help a little bit, but it will also set you back that amount of time. The point is to NOT CARE what he DOES, because you know what he IS.
I do understand, but I’d rather see you save your money.
I can guarantee you HE WILL BE BACK, because you have money and because he knows you always give in.
And if you talk to him, he will push your buttons, you will have a big screaming fight, and whatever you find out about him will come out in the fight. Then he will know what you did.
Your focus right now has to be NC and Gray Rock. Your emotions must be protected at all costs until you are able to feel more solid. This will take anywhere from 6 months to 3 years. It all depends on YOU. What you do with your time and thoughts will influence that.
Dear Trimama,
I agree with sky, cancel the PI—you already know enough about this guy to know he is NO GOOD FOR YOU. That is ALL you need to know. He is an ex convict. He is a liar. Doesn’t matter if he told 1 lie or 1,000, he is a liar. Doesn’t matter if he robbed 1 bank or 1,000, he is a “bank robber” and so on. Doesn’t matter if he killed 1 woman or 1,000, he is a murderer, and if he “only” killed her soul, what the heck…Jessica was the FIRST person my son killed…so you may be the 3rd or the 1st person this guy kills, what difference does it make? HE IS A BAD GUY, WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED TO KNOW?
NO CONTACT NO CONTACT NO CONTACT, get him out of your HEAD. Quit thinking about him. Come here, read and read and read, blog and blog and blog, but don’t give him the time of day or the money or the effort to find out MORE LIES, what difference does more make? NONE!
Sugar I have been down this road and so have the other bloggers here. If he is an ex con that is ALL your need to know. He tried to hurt you. That is all you need to know. He said he killed some people. That is ALL you need to know.
YOU DESERVE BETTER, I know that, and so do you! Stay away from him completely. (((hugs)))
Hey everyone!!!!
I haven’t been here is quite a while. I had hard time moving on while reading the blog daily!! I almost felt as if somehow being here was contact…just a reminder. But I’m in a new stage and I can’t think of any place better to get advice support than here.
It was a year ago tonight when I first realized he was not who I tought. Well I knew two months earlier but refused to believe it. It has been a very hard year…I have not felt like myself and I questioned if I ever would. But I am definitely in a new place of healing….and with that trying to figure out how to really move on.
I met a great man about 6 months ago and we stated dating 4 months ago. I wasn’t intending to find a relationship, but I was following my therapists advice and “dating.” I actually had decided I wasn’t going to date anyone…that it was too soon..when we met. But we seemed to hit it off and now we are a couple. So here is the hard part. At 36 my only “real” relationship was with the spath…so I have no idea how to take in anything new. I’ve actually never had a “real relationship.” Everytime he does something wonderful I think “would a spath do that…is that love bombing” and everytime things aren’t PERFECT I wonder “is that the mask slipping.” I’m not perfect…I have moments that aren’t wonderful…and I have moment that I am a very loving/providing/encouraging person. Its not a mask or a love bomb with me so why do I wonder if it is with someone else???
The worst part is I know that I am being ridiculous…but I am almost scared not to be overly aware. I fee like I don’t trust ANYONE…I didnt even trust my therapist at first!!!!! I feel like I can totally trust him. He has never lied…all the “signs” to look for are not there….but then I read about all the people who were with spaths for 5, 6, 7 years before they saw it. Then I say what if. I have NO reason to not trust him EXCEPT for the past….and the past makes me hesitant with anyone new.
So…how do I give him the chance he deserves without constantly being on spath alert. I was talking with my sister the other day and told her how different this relationship feels…how I didn’t know what my feeling were because I new I would walk away if he broke “the rules”…when last time I would have done anything to save the spath…to save “us.” Are there “real”feelings when I know that I would walk away from it.
Ahhh…I don’t know..it is late and my mind is going 500 miles an hour…anyone who has been here who has any advise I’d love to hear it.
innocence,
tell me what you are seeing. I might be up a little while longer. What is he doing?
Dear Stolen innocence,
I think it is that you don’t trust YOURSELF to keep you safe, it is that more, I think, than not trusting others.
I disagree with your therapist’s approach to get you out dating so soon after your break up with the P, I think we need to heal a lot more before we start trying to have a relationship with another person, but now that you are in the relationship….and if he seems like a good person, no lies, etc.
Sit down and look at 1) what you want out of any relationship iin the way of long term (or not long term) (2) be honest with yourself about this man, does he meet those criteria? (3) is he HONEST? AND KIND? (4) Does he have a good relationship with the community, with his friends, with his family? Is he a past or present drug problem, criminal? Is he arrogant? Does he always have to be right? Does he put you down, make you feel small?
I mean look at this guy under a microscope…if you don’t see any negatives about him then look at the positives…..do we have mutual interests? do our moral compasses point in the same direction? Is he the kind of man who would make a good partner/roommate/husband/father? Is his job stable? Is he good with managing his money? Does he have empathy? Am I sexually attracted to him and vice versa? Are his long term goas the same as mine?
Then the two of you go to a c
Oops, hit post before I was ready:
Then the two of you go to a couples counselor and work on the relationship honestly. He deserves to know what is going on in your mind if you “are a couple” and you think you might want to stay with him or if you think you might want to break up either.
It is obvious that you have some doubts about your own ability to judge a nice guy from a predator. I understand that fear, I’ve felt it myself, but you deserve to get over that fear and learn to trust yourself. KNOWLEDGE IS POWER, so keep on reading here, go back and read the older articles in the archives under subject and author (the monthly ones only go back for a year and some of the better articles I think are some of the older ones) but READ AND READ AND READ! That knowlwedge will help you, I know it will! (((hugs))))
Good Morning LF.
I wanted to start by saying Thank you to everybody who responded to me on Friday! I read the posts and felt truly cared for!
Star, Go to Costa Rica!!! Five long gruelling years of therapy sounds lke emotional root canal to me. We aren’t getting any younger! Have some fun. You deserve it!
LL, Thanks for your heart-felt post. I think we have a lot in common, and we probably trigger it in each-other. Not in a bad way, because we are both becoming aware of, and in contact with pain and shame and trauma and vulnerabilities, etc.etc. etc, that when we see it in others it makes it more acute in ourself. Does that make sense?
Bluejay, Thanks so much for your kind words of praise.
And Thanks to everyone else!
I read your responses on Friday afternoon, but I just didn’t have the energy to respond. I was so emotional I really felt a need to pull back my energy, a bit.
I had an eventful week-end. I decided to do some volunteer work for the Museum of History. I talked to the lady in charge of volunteers and she was trying to figure out where to use me….where my niche might be….I told her I wasn’t a computer person, and my works skills were limited to cleaning housesx and food and beverage work, but, I said I was educated in Literature and English….I asked, can you use that to your benefit? She shook her head and then said, “not unless you want to write a script”. I jumped on that and said, “Oh yeah. I would love that.”
I am not writing a whole play. I will be writing the script for one role. (A French lady in Waiting from the 1700″s to a Princess.) I have some research to do.
I was so stoked. I was excited. I love creative writing, and have always been good at it. Prose poems, and short stories, kids poems and storys. But I have never written a script.
So now I am doing what I always do. Doubting myself, and talking myself out of it. Why do I do that?
Another example: Acouple of years ago the New Year came, and I decided I was going to express my creatvity more….I was going to look out-side the box and find a way to make money doing something IWAS GOOD AT AND LIKED.
We cleaned the house of an elderly widower, who was retired from sime kind of executive career that had sent him traveling world wide. We like the guy enormously, but we complained to each-other about the rugs. He collected rugs from around the world and they were every where, and a real pain for us to vacume and vacume under. But this was a good thing for me and my new resolution, because, when I looked out onto his screened back porch, I saw such a drastic disconnect from the rest of his house. Gray pavement, grey cochina on the house. Very dull. Now you cant put an expensive imported carpet on a back porch and expose it to weather, but I suggested he let me paint a rug on his porch. All I had to do was suggest it, and he was excited. He pulled up some images on line and picked out one he liked.
I was excited and really pleased with myself…until about the next day when I started having my doubts. I again talked myself out of it.
Why? No wonder I am still cleaning houses.
I am good at the creeative stuff….and (honestly) not so great at waiting tables and cleaning.
Another thing: After being so emotional on Friday, thinking about trauma bonding and some childhood stuff, I dreamed my adorable 3 year old grand daughter told me I was mean to her a lot. She said it in an adult voice. I think she was my inner child telling me I’m mean to myself. What do you think?
I listened to most of onejoys links to Rene Girard she posted on Friday, and gave a lot of thought to Girards theory on religion and saacrifice (scape-goating) and how Christ made the need to scapegoat obsolete.
I woke up on Sunday and listened to a preacher on TV. Now that is unusual, since I don’t take well to the whole preaching hell and brim-stone, hypocracy, and holier than thou thing. But he was saying much the same thing as Girard, so he got my attention.
If God can forgive me for my short-comings why can’t I?
Another thing I realized…I hate to admit it, but I still think about my Spath most every day. Not in a sad and yearning way, but in a oh what a jerk kind of way. It’s been over three years. I wonder if holding on to the idea of oh what a jerk he was, keeps me from focusing on all the deeper, buried pain I’m becoming aware of. What do you think?
Hi to the Newbies. I’m glad you found us! I will take a break, now and have a cup of coffee, but I will comment to you on your posts in just a bit.
Kim, congratulations for the offer to write the script! That sounds like such a creative project. I’d love to read it once you’re done, if you wish to share it, since I love that period of French literature. It’s the salonnière epoch, when women had a lot of cultural influence and power.
Dear Kimmie,
Darling I think you are making a major MAJOR BREAK THROUGH! WOW!!!!!! TOWANDA!!!!
First off great that you volunteered, and secondly great that you have realized that YOU are the one putting you down! (I think your interpretation of the dream is RIGHT ON!) Sometimes the symbols in our dreams show us where we are….I think of all the people Who have been UNKIND TO KIM, you are the WORST ONE! I know I was the person MOST unkind to Oxy, but now that I am being kind to Oxy she is doing a bunch better, so if you start being kind to Kim, then guess what?????? I bet ya Kim will start to feel better and be able to express her creative part.
I am so excited about your script! I think that is great! One of my friends works at our state historical museum and she does little “playlets” and tells stories, etc., about various eras in our state’s history. She is great at what she does and people love it. I competed against her once in the “liar’s contest” (telling tall tales) and I WON, which made me really happy cause she is so good!
I think YOU WILL BE WONDERFUL KIMMIE!!!! You continually amaze me with your knowledge of literature and writing. So GO FOR IT!!!! Expand your world! I’m so proud of you, GF!
As far as thinking about the jerk, well maybe thinking about him keeps you focused on other things than your own buried pains, but when you find yourself thinking about him, just start to tell yourself (your internal dialog) “Hey, he is gone, and good riddance and it is now time for me to think about how to make my life better.” You HAVE COME A LONG WAY, BABY!!!! Just since I have known you on LF! (((hugs))))
Hi Kim,
I’m SO excited for you doing these creative things! You must be a very creative person. This is great because you can have multiple streams of income. The script writing and rug painting sound FABULOUS! I recently had the ephipany to start teaching dance to the rhythmically impaired. All it took was a free ad on Craig’s List and I had my first student a few weeks ago. I also hope to do a little painting this summer and maybe get into some light copyediting. I look forward to hearing how the script and painted rug turn out!
I also didn’t realize you were a grandmother. For some reason, I think of you as much younger. I’m trying to picture it. I obviously need to read more of your posts. 🙂
I’m needing some help and advice this morning. I will post it in a separate post.