Last Friday Robin Hoffman interviewed me again on her radio show, The Feminine Soul. We discussed recovering from a relationship with a sociopath. She asked two very important questions, “How do we avoid picking another sociopath in the future?” and “How can we ever trust our instincts again?”
Coincidentally, yesterday I received this letter from a reader:
I got involved recently with a man who seemed to be the opposite of my previous psychopath. All the traits I like, strong, dominant, etc but seemed to have a good heart, and importantly a good history. I checked him out, he had a long service in the police force and a voluntary youth organization, was widely respected and successful.
Recognizing my vulnerability, I kept my eyes and ears open, and my heart guarded.
After 3 weeks I started to spot inconsistencies, tested a bit, and noticed the feeling of cognitive dissonance and didn’t ignore it.
After 6 weeks I ended the relationship, even though part of me was screaming inside “no, don’t do it”. Only afterwards did I discover that not only was he cheating on a wife who had cancer, but he was also cheating on a long term girlfriend, who genuinely loved him and is devastated. He was playing with fire by putting us both on the same webpage and we got chatting without having any idea of the relationships involved and it all came out. I’ve given her a link to saferelationships.com and can only hope she learns from the experience.
I SO proud of myself. I got out before getting involved, so it didn’t hurt. The experience was positive in that I made a different choice, for me. My stop light is starting to work and I’m learning I can trust my instincts again.
There are three parts of ourselves that are “taken” by the sociopath. The first part is the conscious mind. The sociopath fools the conscious mind by lies. It can be very difficult to detect these lies because skilled sociopaths use willing and unknowing accomplices to back up their lies. (This is why it is important for family members to distance themselves from the sociopath and his/her relationships.)
Sociopaths know to pick on trusting people. In general trusting people are loyal and trustworthy. These are good qualities so when your conscious mind is taken, you can be left with a lot of self-doubts. The strategy of carefully checking out people’s claims is a good one but it often takes time to uncover a sociopath’s lies.
Our unconscious minds also get “taken” in the sociopath’s con. Sociopaths are dominant and seductive. These traits may be arousing and attractive. I think that this may be in born. We may be attracted to these traits instinctively just like certain body parts are arousing for some.
Even though the attraction to the dominance and seductiveness of sociopaths may be instinctual, I don’t think we are stuck with it. I was able to train myself to be different and I want to share with you how I did it.
I am somewhat ashamed to say it took me too long to understand that I was drawn to sociopaths because of their dominance behavior. Once I understood this, I set out to find a way to feel differently about them. I wanted to like them less. I had always observed that there were some mental health professionals who were instinctively repulsed by sociopaths and I wanted to know what was different about them.
In studying the literature on dominance behavior and personality I discovered that dominance and empathy are opposed to each other. When dominance motives are in play empathy is turned off. The hormones of dominance also turn off empathy. The opposite is also true empathy and affection also suppress dominance motives.
Armed with this knowledge I set out to study men I knew who had long track records of loving empathetic behavior. I spent hours talking with them about their views of love, life and life’s purpose. I did this until the lesson had sunk in emotionally not just intellectually. A fully human person, male or female is loving and devoted. He or she is able to control dominance motives and express them only when appropriate.
Since this emotional lesson sunk in, I have found myself actually repulsed by dominant people. I no longer admire them or find them entertaining. Instead, I emotionally experience them as they are, shallow and lacking in important qualities.
Sociopaths also “take us” on another level. They manipulate us into forming bonds with them. These bonds are unconscious and chemical- whether the sociopath is a family member or lover. Breaking a bond with a sociopath is very painful. We do not have to be enslaved by our human bonds, we can acknowledge them and realize that at times these bonds have to be broken even though doing so is painful and difficult.
To sum it up then your new wiser mindset may have many aspects to it. Wisdom is a practice as well as a state of mind.
ps Star, we posted over each other. About the cell phone thing at lunch. Yes, I think it is rude, but most people don’t think that way, but as far as your “friends” that you lunch with, I would kindly tell them or suggest “Hey, I really want to just visit with YOU, can we turn off our cell phones so we won’t be interrupted in our visit?” Then take yours out and turn it off.
“Friendships” have different levels too—and some are more intimate than others, and are based on some very superficial mutual linterests. So, depending on the level of the friendship is whether or not I would tell them about my FEELINGS or not.
In January a very meaningful relationship/friendship that I had felt very deeply about “died”—because my friend is so depressed about her own marriage (which is pretty rotten) but chose DENIAL over working on it, and she is irritable and big time depressed about it. I UNDERSTAND what is going on with her, but she is not willing to admit it or to fix it, and I can’t fix her. I wish the friendship could contiinue but it’s not going to but it is HER PROBLEM not mine. I can’t get her to see that what she is doing is harmful to herself and to me. When I told her “friends don’t talk to friends the way you talked to me.” She replied, “well, that’s what best friends are for, to fight and then make up” and I said, “No, that is NOT what friends are for, friends are to treat each other well.” She didn’t have an answer for that. I haven’t heard a word from her since I left her house in Mid January.
star – i think oxy may be being generous when she calls this guy a social moron. i think he is a player, and possibly has a drug problem – now why do i say that? his profession, and his on again/ off again interest and very little sexual appetite (that’s the drug part). you know that saying, ‘he’s just not that into you’, well here it is in real life. the guy is def a moron, but i think he also used you.
so, how to get closure – you are hooked ’cause the little f****** did the bait and discard with you – aka the trauma bond jerk. so work on releasing some of the trauma bond connection with him.
i like your idea of saying, ‘it’s just professional’ as a way of dealing with him in the outer world – TAKE away the power you have given him.
this so isn’t about him. it’s about how you are feeling, and what risks you are ready to take/ not take. the guy is a loser, i’d be my last dollar on it star – you are not a loser. there is no fit here. you want to connect, you will never connect at a deep and consistent level with him – he will always offer a bit, then run (aka jerk the trauma bond).
keep telling yourself he is a jerk, and YOU deserve better.
I had a history of denying, or not even recognizing my feelings. My therapy was more about experiencing my feelings and owning them, then working through them. It did become very important to me to be honest with people, but, they had to be people who were in REAL relationships with me. The relationship had to be savable in order for me to waste my time and energy.
I don’t think this relationship is good for you. I think it brings out all your vulnerabilitys ,and that you are spending a lot of time and energy in your head about it.
That is probably what Oxy means about controlling your emotions. You don’t have to choose to stir them up. I know it’s hard not to obsess, but it’s not good for you, and it enables you to act, only to repeat the same old pattern.
Maybe you NEED to tell him he hurt you so you can find out for sure if there’s any hope for the relationship you want, but, in my opinion, you can expect a rinse and repeat episode, and those only make it worse, cause they reinforce the trauma bond.
Star – kim said: ‘It did become very important to me to be honest with people, but, they had to be people who were in REAL relationships with me. The relationship had to be savable in order for me to waste my time and energy.’ THIS IS YOUR MAKER AS TO WHETHER OR NOT TO BOTHER REVEALING YOUR FEELINGS TO OTHERS!
kim: THIS IS A HUGE MARKER FOR ME – IF I AM UP IN MY HEAD, IT’S NOT A GOOD RELATIONSHIP
‘I think it brings out all your vulnerabilitys ,and that you are spending a lot of time and energy in your head about it.’
NICE ONES, KIM!
Thanks, Oxy. I’m sitting here crying, and I’m not sure why. Your story reminded me of many of my “past” friendships I’ve had to give up, too. And I suppose I will be giving up a few more now who cannot put their cell phones down. They say “oh it might be an emergency with my family.” Well I don’t have a family (or a cell phone for that matter), so what can I say to that? It still hurts. I don’t want to be reminded that I’m always second fiddle to everyone every minute of the day. There are times when I would like to be a priority to my friends. After all, I make quality time for them. They all know how I feel because I’ve told them. But you know the canned answer….”I agree, it’s rude. I only answer my cell phone because……….” Everyone has a justification. I don’t get it. I remember even having this discussion with the guy who does my hair. He completely agreed with me about how rude it is. But the last time I was at his house getting my hair done, he was talking most of the time to his family on his cell phone while doing my hair. This is one of the reasons I want to move to Costa Rica. People are not like that there. They have the ability to be 100% present. It’s very refreshing. I actually had hours and hours of bus rides without having to listen to anyone’s loud cell phone conversations. I hope it never changes there.
Good advise, Onejoy.
One thing I really identified with when I read that trauma bond article was that victims often identify with the abuser. That they snatch a snippet of power when they leave, or threaten to leave, and it’s a rush of pleasure because we have felt so powerless for so long. It lulls us into believing that we can control the abuser, and change the behavior that is hurting us, and we get kind of hooked on this sensation. Especially when the abuser returns and cries and promises he will change.
This was certainly true of me in my last spathy relationship.
But here is my thought. We have to make a choice between momentary power surge rushes, and genuine intimacy, because the power surge won’t last and very soon we will be in the one down position again. There will never be any intimacy in this kind of relationship. Ever. Then the cycle repeats and eventually we threaten to leave or do leave, and we feel the exhilarating sensation of power, once again.
The hook goes deeper every time.
Kim,
YES!!!
This is what you were MEANT TO DO! No one could do it better. They are soooo lucky to have found you!
I also listened to most of the 5th Rene Girard tape late last night. I had crazy dreams all night. Then, in the dream, I was on the edge of a giant chess board and a war was going to held there. The warriors were going to be giant robots. It was like a sci-fi movie. There was a huge clash, they all appeared to destroy each other. Then it turns out humans and evil creatures were at war. During the war all the humans disappeared and only some evil creatures were left on the chess board. But the evil ones were looking around confused. The couldn’t see anymore humans to kill but the war/game wasn’t over yet. There was still a “presence” that they hadn’t killed. They looked at me, and I said, “don’t look at me, I’m not involved in this game – just watching”. I didn’t feel safe. Behind me was a cupboard and I considered hiding in it. I bumped it and the door popped open, there were a few items in it, including what looked like a baby doll. But I knew it wasn’t a baby doll, it was the infant Jesus. It was His presence that was preventing the evil ones from winning, but they couldn’t see Him. I ran away to the other side of the board and hid behind a desk. Then I regretted it. I thought I should have stayed by the infant. I waffled. I didn’t know where to stand. then I woke up. That’s what happens when you listen to Rene Girard before bed!
Thanks, one joy,
I think it’s true. I suppose none of my current friendships are worth fighting for at this point. The friends all seem to be inconsiderate or addicted to drama. They are fun to work out with or share about certain things with. But they are not real friends. I know I need to meet more decent people. It’s a very lonely place to be – in between. I’m actually considering throwing pearls to a bunch of swine rather than just being alone and lonely.
I’m still wishing there was some way to just deal with the feelings without having to actually share them with these people.
Star – being on lf has really opened my eyes to what we deserve, and what we need to stop putting up with – we need to set the bar higher. In my case, i am willing to be alone (and i mean sans friends and family, not just lover/ partner) if i cannot get good people in my life. period. i will develop my interior life more deeply, and start to figure out and set new goals for myself.
I have some business colleagues, and although that isn’t soul nourishing, it does give me some social interaction. My work is highly interactive (phttt!), so i have lots of shallow contact with people. One of my business contacts brought me groceries when i was so sick last week. friendly thing to do, but it doesn’t make her my friend.
We have to ‘vote with our feet’ Star. We have to walk away from those who don’t treat us well. And then live with the vacuum until it is filled with something good, even if that takes a long time. I, for one, don’t want to be crying out for connection in a room full of ‘friends.’ no more.
Star, Good, I think the book will give you some good ideas about working on your feelings.
Go back and read the story I wrote about the person driving behind the old and slow driver—it is like SELF TALK. When you start to feel your emotions boil up, and you start to think inside your head “self talk” that you are angry or that you are this or you are that, say STOP! I do not have to feel this anger (or whatever the feeling is) this is something I can control.
Yes, sharing our feelings with other is intimacy—under some circumstances with the right person. Sharing our desires, our feelings, our fears with another can be very validating and confirming. But being able to share them with OURSELVES is also valuable and being able to see that we are not at the MERCY of our feelings and thoughts as much as we tend to think we are. I’ll see what other books on these subjects I can come up with too. I know there’s another one and I’ll see if I can figure out which one it is—Oh, I know a GREAT ONE— “a mind of its own, how your brain distorts and deceives” by Cordelia Fine. It is a great one too. That book shows how we hold on to opinions even in the face of evidence to show that they are NOT true. Both of the books I named are good books for helping us see ourselves a bit from the outside in rather than the other way around. Learning and changing our behavior is work though,, and I’ve still got a lot more to do so I’m not telling you I have it all down pat myself. LOL Im just on a journey toward being a better and happier person myself. (((hugs))))