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By | April 14, 2010 59 Comments

A Witness to Healing

Editor’s Note: The author of this piece, Travis Vining, told his story to Lovefraud readers back in 2008. He is the son of a psychopath, and wrote about how confusing it was to know that the man was his father, and also a murderer. Travis’ previous blog articles are listed under “True Lovefraud Stories.”

Travis helped get his father, John Vining, convicted of three murders. The Orlando Sentinel recently published a three-part series of articles about Travis and the murders. You can read the articles here:

Part 1 of 3: In ”˜o4, killer’s son recalled dad admitted to 2 killings

Part 2 of 3: Plan by killer John Vining’s son involves betrayal, lies, audiotape

Part 3 of 3: Search for killer John Vining’s 4th victim ”˜not over’

Since I first wrote for Lovefraud in October of 2008 my life has become a series of extraordinary events and real life miracles as A Witness to Healing.  It is astonishing what can happen when we realize that we really are not alone, ask for help and become honest with ourselves and others.

In January of 2010 I was finally able to help cold case detectives solve one final murder that my father committed in 1987.  It was his first victim, the one that started it all.  After months of “pressure” I was finally able to convince my father, who is still on Florida’s Death Row, to give a written confession that included the location of the body.  Although the remains have not yet been recovered, the confession and details about the crime are enough to close the case.  I have now been able to bring closure to three unsolved murders that my father committed.

I have also written a book that is soon to be published (Son of Terror—A Confrontation with Evil Reveals the Truth about My Father”¦and Me) and become an inspirational and educational speaker. I speak to dozens of groups a year, detailing my experience with sociopaths and the 17 months when I was my father’s “trusted confidante” as he planned and murdered four people.  This journey may have started in hell, but it ended in heaven. My story is really about overcoming life’s tragedies. My hope is that this book will inspire readers to transform their own challenges and tragedy into peace, joy and a deeper understanding of divine wisdom.

In 2009, I was given the opportunity to team up with Toni Furbringer, PhD., a licensed clinical social worker and founder of Heartwork to introduce “Victory Through Peace,”  a project dedicated to helping people and families affected by similar devastating relationships and experiences, as well as anyone suffering from addiction, compulsive behavior, depression or trauma.  This wonderful relationship and project have turned the liabilities of my childhood and early adult life into one of my greatest assets.

More importantly, I have come in contact with the children of three of my father’s victims and it has been a truly extraordinary experience.  It is through these relationships that I am beginning to see true healing, in ways that I never thought possible.  These events that have occurred are not by chance and cannot simply be explained away as “coincidences”.

If I use my experience with my father as a measuring stick I should no longer question circumstances in my life or try to label them as “good” or “bad.”  Those 17 months with my father looked pretty bad at the time.  In fact, it seemed like the end of the world.  And today?  It’s one of my greatest assets.  It is a gift.  A gift of experience that seems to provide others who are suffering in life with inspiration, hope and a willingness to believe that all things do work out for the better, maybe even helping them take a step closer to our creator.

If you don’t believe in miracles, imagine this for just a minute.  All that evil stuff that my father did in his life is now helping people who are suffering find their way to a higher power that can help them bring meaning, peace and joy into their lives.  My father”¦he wanted to harm people and now his story is helping people find the very peace that he tried to destroy.  He tried to take life and now his story gives it.   This is what happens when we become willing to ask for help, and more importantly, accept that help.

Sharing my experience with sociopaths openly in the right forum and finding others that have had similar experiences was one of the most important steps towards recovery.  It helped to teach me about the importance of true forgiveness.  That forgiveness led me to a life that is full of peace and happiness.  Much of it started with my writing on this site.  I am grateful that Donna Andersen provides this forum.  It is an extremely useful service for those of us that have had experiences with sociopaths.  And for that”¦I am forever grateful.

Travis F. Vining


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Ox Drover

I read all the articles with great interest as I did Travis’ posts and articles here. I am glad that Travis has been able to turn his trauma into a useful and beneficial thing, not only for himself but for others. In many ways I can identify with Travis, in that not only my biological father (“sperm donor “–because he never earned the title “father’ ) but my biological son, are psychopaths who have murdered. My son is in prison for his murder, but my sperm donor lived out his long life, free of the legal consequences of his crimes, murder among them. Unfortunately, the two murders I knew about were not ones where there was any evidence collectable and were both committed outside the US so I was never able to prove or even have legal verification of the crimes. That distressed me for a long time, but no longer does. There are or were others who knew, others that believed, and I came to be able to validate myself and my knowledge and no longer feel I was “crazy” for what I knew, what I believed. The family of my sperm-donor, and his first cousins, who knew him and believed my “crazy” tales as well as one of his ex-wives, who also believed, helped me to overcome my own guilt for knowing and being unable to seek or find justice for these victims or their families.

Being the child/offspring of a psychopath is a terrible burden, but it CAN be, as Travis did, turned into a gift of understanding. I am glad that Travis has found peace with what his father is and did, and has turned it into a healing process. That is my goal for myself and for other victims.

I too thank Donna Andersen for making this site possible, from turning her own trauma into a healing, for not only herself, but for others as well, not only one or two, but for hundreds, thousands of other FORMER victims who are now SURVIVORS.

Buttons

As I sit here…a newbie to this site….I have tears streaming down my face. I so desperately want to feel that my experiences may have some better meaning. I want so desperately to feel the closure and sense of accomplishment that Travis expresses – to feel that Some Good can be made of such experiences.

I look forward to the release of your book, Travis. God knows, we all could learn from you.

I echo your thanks, OxDrover. Donna – it takes courage and mettle to survive, and you’ve turned your survival into a light of hope.

Buttons

Wow…..I’m reading this and re-reading Travis’ courage, and I’m a wreck. I cannot stop crying, and I have the nerve to think that my experiences were devastating.

ErinBrock

Buttons:
Hugs to you…..I beleive we ALL have it in us to make a difference in the exposure and elightenment and making good out of our encounters with cluster B’s.
To some, this is part of the process of healing…..
Don’t ever devalue your experiences…..

You have a lot to offer so many…..don’t question that!

Let me wipe your tears…..heres a hanky and a hug……

🙂

ErinBrock

TRAVIS…Travis, Travis…..
What strength you have darling! Enlightenment, awareness, Balls, strength, courage, compassion, empathy and the willingness to make a difference in our world!
You have come so far……I bow to you!
I look forward to your book……Will it come out in CD version also?????? Puleeeze!
I am very pleased with how you have turned this around….for you AND others!

XXOO
EB

Ox Drover

Dear Buttons,

Get and Read a book by Dr. Viktor Frankl, a survivor of the Nazi death camps in WWII. It is called “Man’s search for meaning” and is THE book that turned my soul around. This is not just a gorey book on the actual abuse they suffered there but an emotional look at that abuse and what it did to people.l How he, Dr. Frankl, SEARCHED FOR AND FOUND MEANING in his years in that PLACE OF HORROR, and he shows that man’s suffering is not BIG OR SMALL, but TOTAL. Each of us has TOTAL suffering, so your trauma or my trauma is not bigger or smaller than anyone else’s it is TRAUMA TOTALLY. This book was wonderful, and it put me on a SPIRITUAL PATH toward healing that I could not have healed without. I think man is a spiritual being in a human form, and I realize that there is true EVIL in this world, but there is also true GOOD.

Your tears of compassion and understanding are cleansing and good. You can identify with Travis, and I DO BELIEVE that there is a greater power in the universe than just ourselves, but even if I am wrong about that, believing that won’t hurt me, but support me. It has opened up my soul and my own spiritual healing. I think we almost HAVE TO find some positive meaning in this nightmare. It is that bright light that shines to us from the path toward healing that keeps us going. That makes us VICTORS not VICTIMS. Stay on the path. There are others here who know hhow difficult it is. Each has to walk it for themselves, but by encouraging others encourage ourselves. What I write to others reinforces what I need to know myself. (((Hugs)))) and God bless.

Buttons

I don’t know how crazy this is going to sound, but I think that I found this site by divine design. Oh, yeah…..I’m still bawling, but I don’t think it’s a “bad” thing.

I’d posted a couple questions, previously. The second one was with regard to having one’s spirituality damaged by their experiences. I think, up until the past half hour, I’d lost my belief that there’s something greater than myself out there – that everything that I’ve experienced from the ex, to the son, to the stalker, to the Trooper, to the “friend,” just happened because I hadn’t been wise enough, smart enough, sharp enough, or intuitive enough to peg someone for what they were.

I just found a tendril of my spirituality, again – I found this site by divine design. Thank you all…thank you, thank you.

Ox Drover

(((((Buttons)))))))

Buttons

WHEW………okay…….. I have to finish my firing and start feeling great. I honestly, honestly feel the support, encouragement, and candor on this site and I wish that we could all gather together to throw a party to celebrate our survival together. Campfire, s’mores, rants, and laughter. Brightest blessings……one, and all.

hurtnomore010

Buttons: You do feel the support and encouragement! I definitely agree with you. I just joined about two weeks ago.
Travis: Oh my God! I”m so glad that you guys wrote a book. There are many people around the world who have experience similar to yours. Except each one is unique and should be shared to encourage one another. I may have to pick up that book one of these days.

I agree dealing with a sociopathic parent is the hardest. Especially living with them. Sometimes you don’t want to accept reality. I still want to believe that my dad truly cares and loves me. In reality, he doesn’t and it hurts. But writing about it helps me a lot.

leapblog

Buttons says:

“…The second one was with regard to having one’s spirituality damaged by their experiences. I think, up until the past half hour, I’d lost my belief that there’s something greater than myself out there ”“ that everything that I’ve experienced from the ex, to the son, to the stalker, to the Trooper, to the “friend,” just happened because I hadn’t been wise enough, smart enough, sharp enough, or intuitive enough to peg someone for what they were.”

Oh Buttons. I remember those feelings so well.
I gave up on God, gave up myself, gave up on everyone. I withdrew into myself, not feeling I can trust anyone else but not being able to trust myself either! I was so defeated.

I kept searching, thankfully, and I’m finding my way and am enjoying life again. I know I had to go through all the things I did for a reason and I’m grateful – now.

Give yourself time, you will find your way, when you are ready. Until then, please don’t be too hard on yourself. Please be kind to YOU. You’ve been through enough already, don’t put yourself through anymore. 🙂

Buttons

Leapblog, thank you so much for your words of encouragement. I’ve been experiencing a number of events, recently, to bolster my courage, resolve, and healing, and I really, really believe that it’s divine intervention.

What is best is not always what I would wish for, and I’m feeling very, very grateful this evening. I’m going to be okay and I want to thank everyone, again, for their very kind encouragement. You’re all a part of that light of hope.

Hi – it feels awfully good to be back on this site. Great to see OxDrover is still offering help and inspiration to others.

I was most touched by Buttons, but appreciate all the posts here. What you (Buttons) are feeling and experiencing is real. At least that was my experience. I love what happened to me because it took me to a place that I could begin to feel something bigger than myself, guiding me.

I found others that were willing to help and it began to restore my faith in man (and ultimately a higher power)…this is a wonderful place.

The key for me was forgiveness and I needed others to show me the way. Forgiveness is a powerful thing.

Courage? I did nothing extraorinary, I only realized that something was more important than fear. It was love. All I really did was pursue that. The one thing that my biological father could not teach me turned out to be the key to freedom. My dad taught me everything I needed to know about what life is like without love and for that I am forever grateful.

Buttons

“I only realized that something was more important than fear”

Travis, it’s been almost a month since I read your article, and I revisit your experience, often. It reminds me that healing, growth, and more healing requires just what you said with regard to fear.

Excising the spath from the Self was, indeed, a fearful thing. Would it hurt? Could I make it on my own? Was there anything of value that I had to offer? And, so on… The one thing that was always in the forefront was this simple mantra: this situation is sick. In order for me to reach any level of potential, I would have to either face down that fear, or continue down the spiral and end up a husk with no soul.

Life without love – agape – is something that I cannot imagine. Before the spath, I had a clear understanding of agape. During the spath, I believed that agape had been torn away. After the spath, agape reappeared bit-by-bit and, to my amazement, had never really been torn away, only buried.

Travis, you did do something extraordinary and your experiences are a beacon of hope. Again, thanks for your article and brightest blessings to you!

Ox Drover

Travis, thank you! I just now saw your last post. I’m glad Buttons brought the article back up. She is right, you are extraordinary! Coming to grips with our own fear, and realizing that we must and can overcome that fear I think is a key to so much.

Life without love is a very bleak landscape—life without a spiritual guide is also a very bleak landscape. Your father and my sperm donor I think are very much alike. I’m glad you were able to secure justice for some of the victims of your father. I gave up securing justice for mine’s victims on this side of life, but I know there will be justice in the next life. Though he did not go to prison as your father did, his life was always empty, and he was never satisfied with what he had. That in itself was some punishment, self inflicted I think.

Peace and joy, Travis! God bless.

one/joy_step_at_a_time

this boy was accused of killing his sister, protested his innocence and was imprisoned. i would like to see the documentary and see what he is; to understand his family, who never stopped supporting him; and to see who the murderer is revealed to be. i think the son is still in prison, if that is the case, he either did it or was an accomplice.

i listened to an interview with the film maker and he was deeply moved by his time with these folks and this subject.

http://www.hotdocs.ca/film/title/life_with_murder

Does he still come around here from time to time?

I am curious about those 17 months, but I guess I need to read the book for that part.

I loved when he said this: “Sharing my experience with sociopaths openly in the right forum and finding others that have had similar experiences was one of the most important steps towards recovery.”

I agree with him. It was a turning point for me and my healing.

THANK YOU LF, Donna, and all the great people here. Oxy, Skylar, One/Joy, Constantine, Milo, Kim, and the others I am slowly getting to know.

Sometimes I feel like a walking accident or an awkward looking piece of human being. Emotionally, it’s like hobbling around on one leg, and that gets exhausting. When I come here, people understand. It’s like air!

Good Morning from Germany and take care all!

skylar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YNU8yu9Kk8&NR=1

so this sociopath calls her and asks if she has forgiven him.

she said yes.

I think he was full of s**t and just wanted to know if he had won.

am I jaded?

Skylar, look at the first part of his statement:

“I cannot live the rest of my life without knowing….”

It’s still all about him. That’s why it sounds unreal. He still doesn’t care about how he hurt her. He just wants to know if he has been forgiven. After he took her family from her, now he wants to benefit and take from her humanity, too. Then he tells her that her father was a good man who didn’t deserve what he’d done, as if she didn’t already know that. Forgiveness is perhaps good for her, but to tell him that he’s forgiven is perhaps just to tell him that she never fully grasped what he is, which could give him the satisfaction of knowing that he could have the mother of a little girl murdered in front her and still convince that little girl that he’s not a bad person. Which communicates to him that she STILL cannot see beyond his mask, hence he won. He can set off bombs and have her family killed, and then all he needs to do is cry on the phone and she’s granting him mercy.

That sounds spathy to me.

And why in the HECK did they let this guy out after 1 year!?!?!??! Don’t tell me he went and tried that “I found Jesus” crying routine on everyone!

Sky, you’re not jaded. You see past the mask.

We both know from experience that when a Spath asks to be forgiven, they are just checking to see if you are still stupid.

Louise

Skylar:

I don’t think you are jaded. You just saw through it like the rest of us. I agree with Panther…that stood out to me immediately when he said he could not live the rest of HIS life knowing. Yep, it was still all about HIM. He MAY have felt remorse about what he did, but it’s different from what we feel when we know we have hurt someone.

Thanks for posting that link.

skylar

Panther and Louise,
I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks the old man is full of BS.
1 year in jail is not long enough to erase a lifetime of being a spath.
Panther, like you said, how did he manage to get 1 year for murder?

Well, he didn’t pull the trigger. He was the one who convinced that abusive husband to go in with a gun. So, this guy actually spathed another spath into taking the fall for his sadistic goals and then he got to walk away. The joke is on everyone and they forgive him to top it off. Just lovely.

Ox Drover

Many times the “psychopath by proxy” is the dupe who “pulls the trigger” but the STRING behind that trigger being pulled is the psychopath. The psychopath convinces some “dupe” (for lack of a better word) that their cause is just and/or beneficial for the dupe, but the dupe is the one who must do the “work” to accomplish the work because x, y or z.

The psychopath themselves is “innocent” of the violence, though they are guilty of conspiracy to commit the crime….sometimes in our laws, “conspiracy” is punished more than the actual crime.

For example, if you and I “conspire” (agree to and plan to) to rob a bank, and we make all these plans but someone over hears us BEFORE the bank is robbed and the cops arrest us and the DA prosecutes us for CONSPIRACY to rob a bank, though no bank has actually been robbed, we may actually get more federal prison time than if we had ACTUALLY robbed the bank.

Many times, though, the psychopath who is the “mastermind” behind a crime against another party is slick enough to “keep their hands clean” of the actual crime so that there is not enough evidence to convict them, even of conspiracy.

My son Patrick was quite adept at securing dupes to do many of his crimes. Unfortunately, he was not street smart enough to not get caught for those crimes and to take a fall for having possession of the stolen merchandise. In the end, his credit card fraud case, in which HE never actually signed on the fraudulent card but got his dupe-girl friend to do so (though he got some of the merchandise) when she ratted him out as a co-conspirator when she was caught, and him being on parole, chances are he would have gone back to prison again, so he decided to kill her. He actually did that himself, and apparently didn’t even try to hide it from his “friends” or her friends (low-life petty thieves) but in the end, even his low-life petty thief friends weren’t up to covering up for a murder. Patrick found out there wasn’t as much “honor among thieves” as he thought/hoped there was and Jessica wasn’t the only one to rat him out. He didn’t seem to learn from that experience though, as he again trusted a psychopath to do his bidding and when the going got tough, the Trojan Horse psychopath ratted him out, and left him in the lurch holding the bag.

superkid10

I have a question. I don’t know where to post it. i would reallly like to see an answer by Dr. Leedom or Steve the LCW, so I will keep my fingers crossed.

I was researching on the web today and found somebody asked the question, “what is the personality disorder when a person lies all the time”. All the responses were “pathological liar”.

But “pathological liar” isn’t a personality disorder.

I realized that I think I typed the same question a long, long time ago (before I i first came to this site, in August 2009) and it still look me a while to link “pathological liar” to “anti-social personality disorder” and then it took even longer to link THAT to “sociopath” and once I did that, I hit the jackpot.

Anyway.

My question is this. Is “pathological” or “chronic” lying a symptom of any other personality disorder? Say, Borderline Personality Disorder? Anxiety Disorder? Anything else?

Thank you so much.

SK

Ox Drover

SK, I’m not Dr. Leedom or Steve but it is generally recognized that most if not all psychopaths are “pathological or chronic liars.” Sort of “they will tell a lie when the truth would fit better.”

It is a behavior often found in people high in other traits that together make up the personality disorder. Many of the “different” personalitiy disorders have OVERLAPPING behaviors so that lying, manipulating, criminal or illegal behavior, sexual promiscuity, love bombing, etc. are just a very few of the behaviors that we here on LF call “red flags.”

In the “hard sciences” you can know that 2+2 ALWAYS =4, but in psychology, there is “wiggle room” in what “diagnosis” or opinion you are going to get about how someone behaves equalling X, Y or Z illness or disorder, so it is kind of like I think, a “preponderance of evidence” for a disorder=that disorder. At least it is that way until there is a blood test or a scan that “proves without a doubt” that this + that= psychopath.

skylar

Hi Superkid,
that’s a great question, I can’t wait to hear feedback on that.

here’s a link that attempts to answer the question:
http://bpd.about.com/od/faqs/f/BPDlying.htm

The only PD that I’ve ever heard of being directly connected to lying is the N/P/S. And Dr. Scott Peck specifically called them “the people of the lie”. What is unusual about the way they lie, is that they do it needlessly. For no forseeable gain.

I think it is due to their addiction to manipulation. They actually like to hear themselves lie just so that they can think, “because I can.” They like to watch as the listener sits back and allows them to continue lying. When I first met the spath, I couldn’t believe the obvious lies. Of course I confronted him on it. He blew up like a nuclear bomb.
“I AM NOT A LIAR!!!!!! NEVER!!! CALL ME A LIAR!!!!”
Well of course I didn’t want to experience that again, so I never did. Until 25 years later.

superkid10

Oxy, Sky,ar

Good food for thought. Skylar, good link.

Of course I want to hear the rest of the story. So what happened when you called him a liar 25 years later? Is that when he fake cried?

SK

skylar

ROTFLMAO!
SK,
Ummm..no, I hadn’t called him a liar yet at that point.
When I found out that he was a “people of the lie”, then I called him a sociopath and a liar. He didn’t even blink.

He said, “I’m not a social spaz, quit calling me a social spaz.”

I think he knew exactly what I meant by sociopath, but he was using his mask of ignorance to pretend he didn’t know. I think by this time in his life, he was fully aware of what he was.

superkid10

Skylar

OMG that is just hysterical, what do you call it when they talk like that? SPATHOLOGICAL? You call him a “sociopath” and he says “don’t call me a social spaz”. Holy shit that is funny. It’s a complete attempt at dodging, dismissing, making fun of, confusing, everything all in one line.

superkid10

Skylar

You know, this made me think.

Why is it that we all dodge the obvious issue when spaths LIE to us? So few of us are willing to call them on the carpet. We want to pretend it didn’t happen. We feign ignorance. We pretend it didn’t happen.

Why is that? What is it about US?

What do spaths do when we finally call them on it?

Do they admit? Not react? Deny?

skylar

SK,
There might be more to it than this, but right now, I’d say, it’s about social graces.

When I was 17, I wasn’t the most diplomatic person, so when he lied, I just pointed it out. And he raged.

Years later, I remember that I felt embarrassed for him when I thought he was lying. So my choice was either to believe his lies, or else feel embarrassed for him and see him as “less” in my eyes. I chose to believe his wild stories.

It’s not as black and white as that though. In my gut, there was confusion and a WTF? feeling, but since there were no answers, I just ignored it.

People talk about putting two and two together and figuring out the answer is 4, but in my case, I had no concept of 4. Two and two was always just two and two. Nobody told me about spaths.

superkid10

Sky

Yeah, I do think it is about social graces. We are horrified, so we turn a blind eye to the lies. Even when they’re outrageous. Even when it’s not outrageous, but clearly a lie, and when truth would serve them better.

My spath lied to me all the time and I didn’t call him on it.
I knew. I just didn’t say anything.

We turn a blind eye to the lie to give them grace.

Yet they are affronting us, assaulting us, humiliating us, hurting us with their lies.

Do I have this right?

superkid10

Sky, I too confronted my spath early on with “STOP LYING TO ME”. He was totally enraged. He blew off work, bought an airline ticket, flew across the country, took a picture of himself at an airport there, texted it to me, and flew back, to “prove” that he wasn’t a liar. Of course, the whole thing just proved that he WAS a liar. But what did I do? I cried. He angrily stomped away. I didn’t know WTF.

skylar

Wow Superkid,
if that doesn’t prove he’s a spath, nothing does. The spaths have no limits to what they will do to create and maintain the “reality” of their facade. It’s so important to them to be able to manipulate reality itself. Just like Scott Peck said.

And yes, you do have it right. We take responsibility for their self-esteem as they work desperately to destroy ours.

As much as they seem infantile, there are times when “alien” seems to fit better.

superkid10

Really? That episode nails him as a spath?

So many pieces of his facade he lets me see behind it – he admits he hides in his basement, he admits he has no friends, he admits he is terrified of human interaction, he admits he’s “empty” in his head, he admits that he finds people ” uninteresting”. He’s roped me into lying for him, once. But he doesn’t really admit to his lies. And I still turn a blind eye.

Teach me, please, why you think this proves he’s a spath?

SK

skylar

You said it yourself SK. He lies and lies and won’t admit to them, but then he admits to other stuff. That means he’s lying about what he admits to.

When spaths “admit” to something, it is just about Frame Control. That is, he is trying to create a picture of what he wants you to see and by looking inside the frame, you won’t be looking outside the frame.

He hides in his basement and has no friends. Not true, he has had a job and he had enough interest in his wife and in you and probably other women.

There is a certain truth to being terrified of human interaction IF he’s not in control. That’s what the lies and the frame control are for. If he’s in control, he’s loving it.

It’s like my spath said, “you’d be so easy to poison because you take so many vitamin pills”. That was truth meant to distract from other truth. He was poisoning my food, not my vitamins. But I ignored the whole thing, since I didn’t imagine that he was poisoning either.

I should have known, since I couldn’t eat without my body aching. I thought I had terrible digestive problems….

Sorry I went off on a tangent.

My point is that they are the people of the lie. Your spath jumped on a plane to take a picture of himself across the country. That is desperate FRAME CONTROL.

Can you tell me more about that incident?

superkid10

Skylar

I hadn’t heard of “Frame control” before but it’s an interesting concept. He wants me to see him as a person with anxiety problems. He doesn’t want me to see him as a spath, but he knows I know he is one.

I told him once when I was reading THE MASK OF SANITY he was shocked, and asked me, “what are you doing? investigating me”? As you know I read over 70 books, textbooks, etc about sociopathy and personality disorders. He brings it up ALL the time – that I know him better than “anybody” because I investigated him. Those are his words. He’s thrilled about this.
I think he’s hinting that it’s because I know he’s a spath.
He wants to talk about it – he hints at it – he throws it out there – and then he dodges the ball.

It’s like what your spath did to you, I think, with the poisoning and the vitamins. He threw it out there and dodged it. Right? Aren’t there parallel actions there?

here is what happened. When we met my spath lied to me. He said he was in the military, full time, one level below a colonel.
He said he also worked full time at a bank. He said he took a year off from the bank to be deployed in Iraq. He said he came back, the bank took him back, but he needed to fly to Florida once a month for some training with the Army. He said he took a military flight to get there and back. I offered to come see him off at the airport and he refused.

Over time i realized there was no pattern to these Florida trips – like there wasn’t every third weekend or anything. I also realized that his text messages, while he was there, were extremely terse. “Hot Today” or something. It seemed like he wanted to say as little as possible. I could just sense it. His departure/arrival times made no sense. The whole thing reeked.

Anyway I was at a movie theater on a Sunday, he texted me some bullshit about being in Florida, and I was fed up, I replied “I think you are a pathological liar. Please stop lying to me.”.

Within a few hours, he booked a flight on SW Airlines to fly to Tampa and back the next day. When he got to Tampa he took pictures of himself holding up a Tampa newspaper, by a Tampa flight arrival sign. He texted it to me. Then he flew back to to our home town.

I was horrified. I went to the airport and waited for him for hours to arrivve home. Finally he got off the plane and I saw him in the baggage claim area. He bristled at me and glared at me. I cried. He left.

I don’t know why I cried. I knew the whole scene was bullshit.
I think I felt pity at him for the whole scenario and I didn’t know what to do.

The picture he took of himself and sent to me is posted for public viewing on FLIKR.

So it’s about Frame Control.

Hmmm.

skylar

Superkid,
that’s hilarious that he would go to such extreme measures to prove his lies are true. Furthermore, there is nothing he enjoys more. Because in his mind, it kind of IS true. It’s true because he can imagine it to be true, and really what’s the difference? If he can experience it in his head or in reality, there’s no difference. And the more people actually observe this “truth” the more real it is. Their brains are truly discombobulated! 🙂

Have your read the story of Walter Mitty? It’s kinda like that.

My spath loved to set up a con. Creating the scenery was as much a high for him as the actual con.

You can google the words Frame Control, there are con artists who post about it online.

Oh and BTW, could you read the date on the newspaper?
How about the flight arrivals? could you see that they were arriving several hours after the text while you were in the theatre?

superkid10

No, I will look into Walter Mitty.

I did google frame control. Amazing.

Yes, I actually did check the newspaper dates and articles and I researched flights to Tampa. I made sure. He also texted me pictures of his airline ticket. I checked the flight numbers. He really did it. Which is hilarious.

Sky, thank you, you saved me tonight.

Superkid

Ana

Hi Skylar & Superkid,
I also googled frame control. On the one I clicked on it was comparing it to the Tao. It’s just another way to control people…seems like they have quite a bit of tools in the toolbox to help them along. We only get the tools after the hurricane has hit. What a shame.

At least we are learning, thank you Skylar. You are a great teacher as well as many other posters here. I hope to learn and spread the news! 🙂

skylar

Hi Ana,
it’s been a while since I last googled it.
I’ll have to check out the Tao link.

skylar

Well!
I did some more research. and I landed here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN3_urefvk4&feature=related

umm…
This woman says that nice guys are forgettable.
My spath played the nice guy. I had to make the first move for a kiss. He pretended to be very respectful, etc… never pushed the issue. I guess that’s what pedophiles do….they don’t want to scare the prey.

Just judging from this and another PUA video, I would say that the spaths (different from a normal PUA) will size you up and become whatever they need to be, to capture their prey. I wear a cross around my neck so I guess it was easy to size me up: Catholic school girl.

one/joy_step_at_a_time

SKY – i want to talk about this some time….how the spath never pushed, in fact quite the opposite. it’s something i need to detox about….i was always reassuring…blah de blah. but i know i got TRAUMA BONDED via this process as it almost felt like small rejections. you know, in the way Transient Ischemic Attacks are ‘small’ strokes. 😉

Ana

Skylar,
Who the hell was that woman??? I know she wasn’t doing us females any favors. Hmmm..blue eyeshadow, low cut, clevage showing shirt and supposedly addressing a room full of men.. I never saw no men in the audience, did you?

LOL I don’t believe a word she says.

Hi One Joy!

MoonDancer

Ana You crack me up – blue eye shadow and clevage – oh my…

one/joy_step_at_a_time

hi ana – have a good day tomorow! off to bed..

Ana

Hi One Joy and Hens,
Thanks One Joy! Sweet dreams to you.

Hens, did ya watch that video…omg…lol

MoonDancer

yes I did and I didnt see no mens either – gnite its pumpkin time..

Ana

One Joy,
I hope you see this. Have you heard of bee sting therapy for tendons? Just wondering if you’ve checked it out or not.

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