After the sociopath: How do we heal? Part 15 – Comfort and Joy

Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanza, the turn of the year, the winter solstice and all the holidays of the “dark” time of the year are celebrations of the miracle of renewal. The harvest and colorful leaf fall of autumn is over, and the seasons are turning again to the beginning of the annual cycle of life. Our gifts, all our gatherings, the lights and candles are all expressions of joy in our shared warmth, and our faith and hope in our survival through the cold months to the blooming of spring again.

This morning, reading in bed (Richard Powers’ Prisoners Dilemma), I found this line: “Inside each of us is a script of the greater epic writ little, an atlas of politics so abundant it threats to fill us full to breaking.”

It made me want to write you about the “politics” of getting over a relationship with a sociopath. Sociopaths challenge our faith and hope. Our faith in ourselves, and the goodness of the world. And our hope that there are happy endings for us, or that anything we do will be enough to prevail over the forces of evil or the random destruction that appears in any life. In some ways, this is the biggest challenge of healing — to recover our easy belief that we are precious in the world and that what we need is here for us. Somewhere in our hearts, we remember feeling that way. But we are struggling with a terrible lesson that seems to prove otherwise.

As I write this today, I am looking out the windows behind my desk at a grey sky. Sleet is coming and dangerous roads. The snow is frozen hard on the ground, and dozens of finches, cardinals and jays are at the feeders. At dawn, deer came to nibble on the ears of corn my son scattered at the edge of the woods. My furnace died earlier this week, on a day where the temperature never climbed above 25, and it was 12 hours before the repairmen figured out how to get it going again. Now, with the heat turned up, and me wrapped in sweaters and fleece and woolen socks, my fingers and toes are chilled by the cold that falls through the storm windows.

Elsewhere in the house, my years-old Christmas cactus is blooming beside a wildly-sprigging rosemary bush that looks vaguely like a Christmas tree. Wrinkled but still sweet apples, picked months ago from a local orchard, wait to be peeled and mixed with mincemeat for a pie. A leg of lamb is in the refrigerator for Christmas dinner with a man who was an untrustworthy lover, but a loyal and delightful friend. After dinner, we will go to the movies with my son to see Robert Downey Jr. in Sherlock Holmes.

All of it stories of risk and survival, disaster and renewal, the fine edge we walk and the mysterious providence that brings us to each new day. Even the most blessed life encounters harsh weather, and sometimes we find ourselves in trouble that taxes us beyond our conventional wisdom. When our rules don’t work, and our usual insurance policies don’t suffice, we are challenged. And often, we don’t know what it means.

Does it mean that somehow we have fallen from grace, that our luck has changed and we are no longer loved by the world? Does it mean that we are broken in some fundamental way, and no longer dare to be comfortable with ourselves? Does it mean that the world is darker than we once imagined, and that we must struggle harder for less?

This is what a great philosopher called the “dark night of the soul.” In this midst of this challenge, there is something truly great happening. A kind of personal miracle that — depending on how we think about things — occurs in our intellect, emotions or spirit. When faced by something we do not understand and cannot manage with our usual tools, we are learning and growing. Like the germs of life stirring in the seeds buried in the cold earth, we are experiencing the birth of something new in ourselves.

Because the challenge is threatening, because it makes us question ourselves and what we know, the first part of the learning seems like recognition of evil in the world. Sociopaths seem to be dark messengers, informing us that our love, goodness and hope cannot triumph over their selfishness, greed and senseless destruction. But in time, we come to realize that this lesson is not really about evil at all, but despair.

This is about a war — profound and eternal — of belief. Are we, as sociopaths believe, essentially alone in an uncaring and untrustworthy world, forced by circumstance and entitled by the survival instinct to take whatever we can grab for ourselves? Or is there something about us that is blessed by connection to something larger — the love we share with other people, our dependence on the combined strength of our communities, our instinct that an infinite wisdom and strength exists beyond our imagining, larger than us, but also part of us? And that we are meant, by some birthright that we can hardly explain but that is clearly part of our deep character, to find lasting peace, understanding and gratitude.

What we ultimately learn from an intimate encounter with a sociopath is that this battle is not in the world, but in ourselves. The sociopath triggers our fears, our insecurities, our willingness to give up what we value for the illusion that the ultimate source of love or safety is outside of us. In their betrayals, in the brutal disappointments they return for our commitment to the gorgeous illusions they cast to draw us in, we are thrown back on ourselves. They prove to us, in a way that is a perfect mirror of however much we were willing to give them to make this illusion real, that the first source of our love, safety and greatest wisdom is inside of us. That, however important shared love and community may be, the foundation of everything good in our lives is inside us.

It is about what we believe. At base, under all the little rules we’ve picked up from parents and teachers, under all the little restrictions we’ve placed on ourselves as a result of old traumas, under all the lingering resentments or fears we’ve never resolved, is what we believe about ourselves and this life. It is what, under it all, we know to be the truth and the meaning of our stories.

Our lives, like the life of every other living thing, are about survival and growth and learning. Our lives are about understanding more as we age, an evolving wisdom that sometimes grows out of joy and triumph and sometimes out of pain and loss. Our lives are about trying, not waiting around for something to happen, but also believing that trying is not just us working at what we see. Trying also magically attracts new resources to us. Everyone here on LoveFraud knows how trying to get better brought us here, and here we found resources that simply zoomed toward us, challenging us in good ways to wake up to new ideas and use them. That is how the world works.

Our lives are also about seasons. Not just the season of age, but the seasons of mastery. We have little challenges to learn on a daily basis, and we have huge challenges that we inherited, and that are so much part of the fabric of our family’s history or the state of the entire world that a lifetime may not be enough to understand it all or master its opportunities. We learn the immediate things — how to change a diaper, work the e-mail, get along with a boss, drive in the snow. But our lifetimes are also about those immense inherited questions, and part of the meaning of our life is how much we do learn and how our learning affects the great whole.

Nothing, not one breath or molecule of these recoveries from grief and loss, is wasted. We are part of a great turning of seasons. What we do here is important. We are important. The world and the great spirit that gives it life force have given us a gift, an opportunity to learn something amazing. About ourselves. About the meaning of love and belonging, as well as solitary courage. About how to be whole in the face of adversity. About the great cycle of renewal in ourselves, and how truly dependable is the fact that we are meant to learn, grow, thrive, bloom again, and face new challenges as we feel strong enough for a thrilling new learning experience.

The earth is turning toward sunnier days. Seasons when we take the warmth and light for granted. So are we.

As Oxy likes to remind us, what doesn’t kill us makes us stronger. Not just to endure. But to recover joy, confidence and belief that every bit of this is a gift, sent to us to help us clear our internal decks, get rid of fear and grief and anger, and open our minds to the bright spirit of faith and hope, peace and joy, understanding and gratitude that is our birthright, that lives in the center of our beings.

Namaste. The light in me salutes the light in you.


Posted in: Kathleen Hawk

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199 Comments on "After the sociopath: How do we heal? Part 15 – Comfort and Joy"

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P.S. I LOVE THE LILY ALLEN SONG!!!! LOL so hard!!!!! That’s perfect!!! And I also read someone, sorry I don’t remember who it was, but the Lady GAGA song Bad Romance. LOVE IT!!!!! Anytime I hear it in my car I turn it all the way up and sing at the top of my lungs…badly I’m sure, but god I feel so much better after!! 🙂

Got me through the divorce!!!
Catchy tune!!!

Thanks EB. I honestly feel like what I’ve been through the last couple years has made me really grow up and reevaluate what is really important to me. I guess my sister and my friend haven’t had to face anything yet, that has made them do the same. Life has been handed to them on a silver plater and it’s all about having fun, and self gratification and RIGHT NOW.
It saddens me to know that people will not ever live up to their expectations. That’s a big lesson for me to learn. And the rolling of the eyes does infuriate me. Here I practically finished raising you, and all I need is a shoulder to cry on, and apparently that’s too taxing for her. Shocked is the only way to descibe how I feel right now.
I was very honest with my feelings and told her exactly how I felt and she still didn’t care. Which brought me to how I feel now. It just sucks to know even your own family can burn you. And you’re right, if the shoe was on the other foot, I’d be there without question and unconditionally. And I have been. I even told her when I was crying in the restaurant, that god for bid if it was her in my place. And that I hope that everything works out between her and her fiance. Because when it doesn’t and you come crying to me, how would you feel if my response was, you need to get over it, I can’t believe you’re so hung up and roll my eyes. I told her I hope that I’m more supportive and understanding than she has been. She didn’t have anything to say.
I’m sorry she left with things they way they are. It’s an uneasy feeling. But I think I need the time to form a response for when she does decide I’m good enough to speak to. As for my friend who religiously calls me daily, she still hasn’t called and I don’t expect her to. Sometimes her head is so far up her ass I can’t believe I’m even friends with her. Maybe she’s not as good of a friend as I thought she was.
Well thanks again for the response and letting me vent. And for the LILY ALLEN ANTHEM!!!! LOL!!

kathleen hawk-
Your post from earlier this evening made me cry. 18 months after he discarded me like an insignificant “casual”(his word) acquaintance and after 7 months of no contact, I still am struggling mightily with how to reconcile the person I thought I knew with the “bad” person I now know him to be. I still cannot come to grips with how another human being ( or is that too nice a description?) could be so nice to someone for almost 2 years and not have meant any of it.
Some say this type of discard is worse than a death, and I truly can say that is so. There he is, apparently going happily on with his life, not giving the slightest thought to how much he has hurt me- ( I now know that is because he does not have feelings like we do, does not know love as we do or hurt as we do). With a death, you can at least be comforted with thinking that the person cared about you and didn’t mean to leave.
As much as I wish I didn’t, I still think about him every day. Even though I told him not to contact me (and he hasn’t) 7 months ago, I still wish every day that he would. Even though he said he would probably hurt me again (and he would), I still miss him so much.
Time has made some difference, but I don’t see myself as ever being the same, ever trusting like I trusted him, ever loving like I did with him. I hope I am wrong. It is a very hard struggle and this time of year is especially hard.

What’s up with the scarf? What happened to the skillet? Are we now strangling people with scarves instead of hitting them with the skillet? I suppose it’s quieter…..

It was in regards to a post/rant I made earlier today,,,,this thread 3:51 pm.
Got it out about the stupid christmas ‘gift’ from the parents…..

No worries. the Skillet is still on scene and ready for boinking….
BUT….your ideas for the scarf are viable too!!!

We had a thread on the reptile site called “The ‘What did you want/what did you get” thread.” (talking about Christmas gifts). Two members got skillets for Xmas. One of them was cast iron. I had a small fit of laughter by myself cause they would have no idea what a skillet is really for!

Did it have batteries?


Kathleen thanks for responding – that was such a big post and had so much meaning, I don’t know if I can do it justice in responding back … but I got each line as I read it.
You wrote …
And then there was the way I agreed to everything, trying to be generous, trying to be kind, trying to be trustworthy, hoping against hope he’d finally figure out what a great person I was.

I could so relate to this – why did I bend over backwards trying to be the bigger person? And why did I think that if he could just see how ‘good’ I was he would start reciprocating?? Because that was how it was in the past for me perhaps – there was reciprocation. And this was my way of coping with his not meeting me halfway – my tactic was to try harder than ever, give more, be more, love more. Truth be told, I thought I could love him better from his sickness that had no name. And I couldn’t. Admitting that was so so hard. I really did try everything I could.

So I grew up thinking I was defective. I was never asked how I felt about anything. It wasn’t till I was much older that I realised there is a huge landscape of emotions and terms to describe them – elation, joy, disgust, revulsion, pain, loneliness, guilt, anxiety, empathy, sorrow, sadness, jealousy. I wondered why any parent wouldn’t discuss such important concepts with their child – surely emotional intelligence is a critical part of surviving life on earth??

You wrote about playing cowboys and indians and there being a definite ‘bad guy’. I didn’t play those games so had no childish definition of what a bad guy was apart from what I saw later on television with America’s most wanted and felons on the run in the news etc. I grew up with mostly a strong Christian ethos and yes we talked about the Devil and his efforts to tempt people towards sin, but that was far too abstract a concept for me to apply to the people I was in daily contact with. Perhaps had the Priest said ‘If you encounter someone who lies and cheats all the time then they are probably following the Devil’s path and you should stay away from them’ then that would have helped make it more real a concept and less abstract and fluffy and metaphysical.

One more thing was really strong in me growing up – if my neighbour strikes my face, I am to turn the other cheek and forgive him.

And now you are right, it is not just about understanding the P relationship, or even the childhood wounding and family dynamics that led to it. It is about changing my whole world view – My old rules worked together to harm me deeply and I don’t know where to go from here. The Christian ethos of loving everyone and finding the good in everyone was a major part of who I was. I don’t know who I would be without it but it can’t remain in light of experiencing the evil that was the P.

SOme people have no good in them. SOme people have some good but the vile aspects far outweigh the good – what rule do I create for them? I can’t in reality just create rules for particular groups because we don’t know which camp each person falls into when we first get to know them – actually we don’t know them for a long time. The P was charming to start with. And sometimes very ‘understanding and supportive. And sometimes so vile and cruel it took my breath away. He could walk out of the house while I wept. He could work in a next door room and ignore it for hours while my heart broke within his earshot. He could make promises with invisible fingers crossed behind his back. He could lie to my face. He didn’t fit my image of what a bad person should be so I wasn’t prepared for what he did.

So I guess this is the problem I come to … after reading your posts and thinking and just letting the words come out themselves. How do I make rules to make the world safe for me to travel in again? How do I let my guard down after this? And how do I integrate this very strange person who was so much a part of my life into my history? I have no precedent model for what he was – sometimes the biggest ‘soulmate’ and sometimes my sworn enemy though he denied it always. I have no schemata for that. People are either good or not. Trustworthy or not. Kind or not. Nice or not.

I feel that in dismantling the schemata that didn’t serve me I lose even more of my original self. And I just started to get it back in remembering who I was after years of his abuse. Perhaps this is why the stuck feeling is there – I need to sit with myself some more and replace each part that didn’t serve me slowly with something that reflects who I am now and my understandings from the experience before I move on. I can’t go back to having no personhood again – that was a frightening and empty existence. I need to find the elements I can hang onto and those that need to change I guess. You are wiser than me and further along in your healing – is this what you experienced?

The other thing is – it is hurtful to recall everything. I recall the relationship with the P and that’s hurtful enough, but then I go searching for the roots that are firmly entrenched in childhood. I wonder if parents ever really understand how many generations they effect in the ways they treat their children – sure they think about the child as an adult – but what about the child’s child and grandchildren?

So it’s another mind trip – mind bending and it’s hard after the mental battle that the relationship with the P was. I felt when I emerged from it, I was very lucky to be still alive and not have overdosed or committed suicide or gone seriously psychotic. It could have eventuated in all those things and more. I am still fragile from it and it’s hard to analyse all these things, but I know it’s very necessary. Maybe if I had been validated and told I was entitled to express my opinions instead of eating my own bitterness the P relationship never would have derailed my life.

It’s becoming abundantly clear to me … we are never the same afterwards and it’s a long long journey towards the light. That’s hard to take after so many years of abuse. I didn’t realise it would be this hard. I thought my new and happy life would begin as soon as his ass was out the door and it isn’t so. It isn’t fair that he caused all this and gets to walk away scot free with clean hands and conscience while I am left to struggle with all the implications of how my own radar system let me down.

(sorry – I know that’s a super long post but it all just poured out!)

I am laughing at the opera singing puppy – I was thinking La Traviata or some Puccini (Pooch – ini – drum roll please!) Oh gad now I am thinking funny lyrics for O mio babbino caro …

‘Oh my beloved Erin
Please get my biscuits now!
Then we’ll take off to the park
Run till you’ve got sweat on your brow

You can throw my ball
and I will play catch and fetch
You’ll throw a frisbee to me
Try to not hit my neck

You’re great and I love you sooooo much!
Let me sleep at the end of your bed :)’

Happy Holidays,
How do we heal after being touched by a Psycho? They usually seek people that are nice, and giving, caretakers,people that are good, and decent. They fool you
they mimic you, they find your weakness, and play upon it.
They seem so perfect, attractive, charming, someone you feel good with, you can relate to, you might even thank your lucky stars. Then you are hooked.
Once reality begins to sink in, and you realize there is something not right, but you have no control, you can’t fix it.
Once you get burned by a Psycho it’s hard to heal, you have to thank God you are still alive, it takes a while to want to meet anybody else, and let them in your life. It’s not easy
These posts here do help alot, people sharing their stories, and people learning from others. I believe that we are all here for a reason, and we all have to go thru different experiences in order for us to grow spiritually, maybe those people that come in contact with psychos, have to, because it’s in their Karma, Maybe the lesson is how you survive the Encounter with the Psycho, sometimes when we win, we also lose, I lost alot, but in the end I won, I’m Free, Psycho=[Free\
and now the Healing Journey begins.

Shall we name the opera singing puppy ‘Gianni’.

I swear, I don’t remember ever laughing so hard on this site as I have today!
Started with a rant…..and ended in laughter….LOVE IT!!

Very good strong operatic name Erin! I know about the laughter – we go so deep in thinking and analysing so a little light heartedness is a good thing – perhaps a side effect of the depth of analysis and self understanding that is happening.

Seriously though … a dog is a wonderful companion. I have two littlies and although they drive me nuts with their incessant demands they have healed me far more than they know. Sometimes taking them for a walk to the park was the only motivation I had for getting up out of bed.

They’re grand and I believe animals are very spiritually attuned. Mine are beautiful – they come lick my face and are all concerned if I am upset. It makes me feel less alone. Like someone immediately understands and wordlessly comforts me.

And of course we have rollicking games of fetch and rough housing on wet days. I was cross to be left with them – they’re a lot of responsibility but they’ve been lifesavers. Sometimes God really does work in mysterious ways 🙂
Glad you’re feeling better – you give so much to everyone here you know 🙂

Im free – some wisdom in that post – I haven’t seen you here before but I am pretty new myself. If you are new too – welcome welcome! If not new then nice to make your acquaintance 🙂 This is a good place for the healing journey!

Thanks for a lovely Christmas posting. What strikes me about it, and some of the subsequent postings, is that it shows how folks who get involved with psychopaths and other abusers are really people who in their hearts seek to make change and produce a positive world for us all to live in. And the abusers see the abundance of positive creative energy that we harbor as something that can buoy them up through another day, week, month, year — however long they can snag us for, and they suck it out of us.

I love this passage from the posting above:
“This is about a war ”“ profound and eternal ”“ of belief. Are we, as sociopaths believe, essentially alone in an uncaring and untrustworthy world, forced by circumstance and entitled by the survival instinct to take whatever we can grab for ourselves? Or is there something about us that is blessed by connection to something larger ”“ the love we share with other people, our dependence on the combined strength of our communities, our instinct that an infinite wisdom and strength exists beyond our imagining, larger than us, but also part of us?”

My feeling is–we have the power within us to make either of those realities true. If those of us who believe in community, love, and “something larger than us” unite, we will create that very thing we believe in. If we give in to the abusers and users of the world, we will help her/him create and maintain their nihilistic sense of reality.

It’s up to us, really. It’s so sad that they leave us so empty. This blog has so much potential to be a source of real light and power, if only we could all just sing that Kathy Allen song together (thanks so much for that!) and get on with it, wisely, though.

love and peace in 2010 to all!

PollyA- thanks for your wonderful long, deep sharing. Very enlightening, as I relate to so much of what you observe about yourself, your childhood, and the questions that you have about developing a new schemata- that represents who you are, and who you are becoming. Really beautiful to witness your expanding awareness and healing.

Imfree- welcome to LF. Your post also spoke to me. Being psycho-free is the grand beginning!

Hi Guys:
Okay, yesterday…..ya’ll pushed me over the edge…..
You know how I truely belive everything happens for a reason….
Well….this morning I got the call…..from the shelter…..
I found this dog….14 months old…..on the web…..(doggie web dating)….
I cut and pasted her picture and info…..
The next night I went to my computer and up popped her ‘profile’…..I was mortified I had left it up….as i didn’t want the kids to see it and bug me about her…..I wanted to just see how I felt about the timing/dog etc….
Well eldest boy says to me next day…hey mom….did you see the dog I left up on your computer last night….?
I said….YOU left that site up? He said yes, I wanted you to see this dog….
I was bewildered…..I thought I had left it up……I knew I cut and pasted her info and was SURE I closed out the site…..
Now….what are the chances of this……we hadn’t decided on a certain breed or mix, color or anything…..and out of 350K dogs listed on this site….we pull up the same dog on the same day.
I hadn’t told the kids I had been lurking around on the websites…..again, I didn’t want them to bug me…….relentlessly.
So…I think this is my sign…..
The shelter called today to tell me they received my application for adoption….and I was approved…..(nice to know I can still get approved for something!) 🙂
The shelter is located about 2.5 hours from us, BUT….they were going to take some dogs into a town about 1/2 hour away from us tomorrow am and they could pack up this dog if we wanted to meet and possibly adopt her, if all went well.

So…..here we go! You otta see the kids move…puppy proofing the house, cleaning up and setting rules out……where the shoes can be kept, how we are going to train her, fillng up a water bowl, washing the dog bed cover…..they are on a high!!!!
I told them, much to their shock, my only request was……they need to teach her to sing!!!!
I started cracking up AGAIN!!!! They think I’m nuts!
I will suggest we name the puppy Erin….EB…..see how that goes down with them…..
Erin Brockovich has been such a big ‘mentor’ for me, the past few years……..
So……thanks for inspiring me yesterday and look how it all worked out!

I think you will love having a shelter dog. Most of them seem to “know” that they have been given a second chance. And once they settle in become great pets.

I have always gotten my dogs in the past with the kids in mind. However once it really comes down to it, I am the one who falls hopelessly in love with the dog.

Good Luck 🙂

No doubt…..I think we are ready for the lovin.

I’ve only ever had shelter dogs too…..
BTW….the kids shot down erin…..they said….NO MOM….that’s you!
First in the running is
Chaimara….Kaimara……have NO idea why…..but universal so far….

I don’t know where to post this…and I really need to post or I will explode.

The p brought some of the money he owes me by the other night. I was alone. (like I didn’t know better) He tells me, again, that he loves me and will be coming home. He also tells me that he got internet and put up a profile, is how he met this girl. (I had asked him how he met this girl that had sent me copies of the txtng between them) He went to her. I have no doubt they did something and I can’t get the image out of my head. He has deleted me from his life, no pictures or anything. How could I have loved this thing?

He took something from me that he had no right to take. He told me that he didn’t care if I got someone else, why would he care he asked. Yet he is going to come home and he loves me?

I am so full of pain, I’ve done nothing but hide and cry since. How could he do this to me and just go on with life, enjoying it and not care what he has done? I know the answers but the images in my head and heart…it is hurting me so bad.

I feel so alone and so stupid. I don’t want him back but the knowledge that he doesn’t care is killing me. What? why?

I said too much to him and so he knows where I stand and how to hurt me.

I have no friends or anyone to talk to. I do the listening not the talking in my world. I have no voice, I’m not heard at all. No one cares. No one can or will help.

I’m just waiting to hear from him again and it scares me, it hurts me, and yet I’m so lonely I almost look forward to it???????

I want to see this profile of his…I don’t know how to find it though. How do I stop this pain, how do I get over wanting the truth? It’s not like the truth won’t hurt. Yet the lies are impossible to live with. Why does it even matter, I had been no contact (except concerning our child) for months?

Something is so wrong with me.

I’m so sorry…Please, please, please, it’s killing me. I just want the pain to stop. My heart is crushed.

Why is he doing this? Why ?

You need to STOP……and regain your strength. YOU CAN DO THIS!!!
You need to see the road ahead and see the potholes….the mudpuddles and the rocks sliding off the cliff to be able to avoid the collision.
CRY, YELL, SCREAM…..hit your pillow…..but you need to get it out!
It’s the 1/2 way place……between fact and fiction….
It’s a HARD PAINFUL place to be….but necessary.
What your feeling is VERY NORMAL for those of us that have been ‘taken’.
It’s the grieving process…..
Value yourself and love yourself.
Decide what YOU are worth…..
This is why n/c is so important…..you do not give them access to your emotions and they cant see the ‘cracks’ in your heart……to slither through and obliterate.

Talk to yourself in the mirror…..SEE YOUR PAIN, connect with it, identify with it…..then get angry….
Angry that he has taken from you, things you wouldn’t give knowing the kind of person he is.
Angry that you are feeling like this…..
And allow your anger to empower you into acting….in YOUR best interest.

YOU are in control of YOU!
Remember this…..

Your in my thoughts….I wish you strength for today!

Sweetie he isn’t capable of love. It isn’t YOU. It isn’t that he can’t love you….He can’t love anyone. You ARE loveable.

You have to “seperate” this disorder he has and not taking what he says personal as if it was something wrong with you. Something is wrong with him.

He can’t give you the truth you seek. He isn’t capable of that either. These are NOT excuses for him. He will just lie and hurt you more. That is what he is capable of.

The only way he will stop playing the “game” with you is if you refuse to play. He plays the game off of your emotions because he doesn’t HAVE any. Your emotions are like the “airl” he needs to breath. He can’t have that “air” ANY other way unless you (or someone else) gives it to him. So he will go to great lengths to get this “air” and push every emotional button possible to get it until he accomplishes this.

The good news is if he can’t get it from you anymore he will go elsewhere and suck it from someone else.

There is not one sincere bone in his body, and not one sincere word that comes out of his mouth.
You deserve so much better. Please leep telling yourself that.

Look in the mirror and tell yourself. “I deserve so much more.” Write these words on “post its” all over your house. Tell yourself that every day if you have to. Because you DO deserve more.

I’ve been there – same place, same feelings – I know the pain – the man has no heart, DON’T under any circumstance blame yourself or see the way he treats you as a reflection of you. It’s just the way he is – and trust me he’s not gonna treat anyone else better – I’ve been tormented like you now by pictures of my ex with his other gfs…until I realised he never felt anything for them EITHER…When you realise he’s not human and can’t be analysed/understood as such all those feelings you’re experiencing (jealousy, humiliation etc) will go away.
And it’s okay to hope he rings, as long as you don’t pick up the phone when he does…

Heavenbound … I know the feeling of no friends very well. When I left the P I had not a friend in the world I could contact and talk about things with. Please remember you have good friends here – we’re not in your real life but we all care about you and if we were near you would be over like a shot to make hot chocolate for you and cuddle you and dry your tears away.

I changed my mindset and rather than looking at what was missing in my life and feeling defective, I reminded myself that I am normal and he is not. I took a chance and met a few new people at the party. And one of them I took another chance on – I said ‘Hey I think you’re great – would you like to hook up for coffee sometime?’ To my utter surprise she said yes and we swapped numbers. We haven’t met up yet but the point is I made the effort and only the first approach was difficult. Other people don’t notice anything odd about us – it is the toxicity of the SPN that made us feel defective, unwanted and unfit for society. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH US THAT OTHER PEOPLE WILL NOTICE.

Yes we will still have our wounds and our dark hours, but other people don’t need to know about that till we’re sure we’re ready to share. You have nothing to feel ashamed about – he isolated you and made your life hell – you didn’t ask for it and now you are rebuilding your life after it. You can do it and only the first approach is hard.

Try looking over the contacts or aquaintances you already have – perhaps you can kindle a friendship with one of them? If you have some history it’s a lot easier. The SPNs wanted us isolated and now they are gone, it’s time to rejoin the human race again. This is also a move that will strengthen your resolve to remain NC with him – you will have independent people influencing your life and be better able to see his sickness for what it is. He’s banking on the fact you’re dependent on him for human contact and therefore weaker and more liable to let him back in. Making friendships is a crucial part of separating from him and remaining away from him. You need to build a little team around you that supports and nurtures you so you are defended from his attempts to lure you back. When he sees you are stronger he will back off – that is what has happened for me.

Is there a local group for parents in your area? That might be a good place to start or a playgroup that parents get involved in? I know it is scary, but this will seriously be your best defence against that slimesucker coming back.

Please believe me you have friends here – good friends from all around the world. And if anyone new questions your lack of friendships … well that’s easy to explain away – you just say several good friends have recently moved overseas so you are looking to make some new friends 🙂 Once you make the first friendship you will wonder what you were worried about! The first is the hardest. And you will feel so much differently about the relationship once you are socialising again.

Try calling your local Citizen’s advice to find out what community groups there are and please share with your friends here how you go – I know you’ll do great! Any of us would come and spend the day with you if we could – we have understanding of one another deeper than people who haven’t been through this experience. You are a worthy woman who has much to offer in any form of relationship. I am finding that these few friendships I am forming are changing my outlook after the trust devastation caused by the P – they are literally healing me from the outside in as I work on the inside. They also stop me dwelling on my pain – you can’t zone off into painland when someone is pulling faces at you and making you laugh!

Sending you some hugs – I can so relate to what you say. And please instigate NC again – it is lonely at first but helps all of us regain our sanity and a firm standing in the world.

erinbrock: you just rekindled something in me with your advice to heaven.
i’m so embedded in that anger and just stuck in it. i’m so dead inside, even though i’ve been very strong with NC for almost 17 months now. i can barely move. every bone, joint and tendon in my body hurts, i can barely walk because my legs and feet feel like lead. i’m always in physical pain. i’ve gained more than 50 lbs in that time, and i can’t stop eating. it is my only comfort. i get through work, but barely; i’m constantly exhausted. i feel as though i’ve just pitched a tent going into the ‘acceptance’ phase. i think about him too much, still. how i’m absolutely nothing to him after so many years of my devotion. i loathe him, hate him with a passion, would never speak with him again. but i still wish he’d call and tell me how stupid he was for doing what he did.
there is no validation in my life that i was worthy of the dream i had, and how the death of that dream has affected me. i’m strong; i’m weak. i hold my head high; i fall to pieces. i’m stuck in a place that is making me sick. my body has taken on the physical manifestation of the psychological terror.
i don’t know where to go from here. doctors can’t find anything wrong with me that would explain the pain. the emotional paralysis, i can understand.
we all try to be so strong here. i rarely hear that anyone is falling apart so far into NC. i don’t want him, i hate him, i’ve moved on emotionally, i know what he is. and i look forward and see more peace and a better life for me. BUT my physical being is immobile. deeply stalled.
so; psychiatrist, another MD, more acupuncture, another long walk?
i just remembered something:
he would never take a photo with me and him both in it, or allow me to take a photo of him.
and i allowed that to be okay.
that level of negation is unbelievable.
effing mutha!

Lostingrief I can relate to the physical pain though I am not as far into NC as you are. I congratulate you heartily on making it that far! I hope I can be as strong as you.

This phrase spoke to me …

“there is no validation in my life that i was worthy of the dream i had, and how the death of that dream has affected me. i’m strong; i’m weak. i hold my head high; i fall to pieces. i’m stuck in a place that is making me sick. my body has taken on the physical manifestation of the psychological terror.”

What insight there – it was all just a beautiful dream and they made us think it was real. I feel such a fool and am so angry he gets to walk away with no consequences as if it never happened while I am dealing with the physical, the emotional and the psychological. It’s not fair. He should be locked up. Or should never have been born. They need to be removed from society.

I can also relate to the photos = I had the same thing happen to me which I thought was very weird. Never wanted pictures of the two of us together and would scowl if I took one of him.
Why did they do that? WHy?

I am sending you a hug – I feel crap today too!

Hey Lostingrief – got lots of pics of my ex-sociopath, and a few of the two of us together. Does that mean my sociopath was better than yours, or treated me better than yours treated you?… NO.
Relationships with sociopaths are not in the realm of normality…they make us lose focus and what we wouldn’t accept from someone normal we accept it from them. So don’t blame yourself for “allowing that to be okay” – it’s actually quite okay for a sociopath not to allow you to take pictures of him, it’s actually okay for that to happen in a relationship with a sociopath, since in such relationships NOTHING is normal.
Take care of yourself – really, that’s what matters.

unbelievable! they gave me magnesium first and THEN vitamin D. i’ve been taking both as well! yes, pain and knots — in my arms and legs. vibrating in my limbs and pain.
everything you wrote resonated, and yes, they should have consequences. they walk away without a backward glance at the devastation they caused.

good point. they all have their sick little peculiarities. just depends on their control issues.
you wrote in an earlier post that it was okay to want them to call. how so? i want mine to call and sure, i’d never pick up or speak to him, but for me, that’s not okay. just a reinforcement of how lonely i am, that no one has hugged me since he left. seems maybe our bodies hurt from being so totally neglected.
that is so messed up.

Well, I mean it’s a normal reaction, so don’t beat yourself up over that. He worked hard to make you dependent on him. We all want justice, and we all feel we deserve at least a sincere apology. Unfortunately they have no capacity for remorse and their apologies wouldn’t be genuine at all. If he rang you he probably wouldn’t apologise. And if he did, he wouldn’t be sincere, he would be trying to get something from you. You should be PROUD that he’s not ringing you. It means one very important thing: that he finally understood that he can’t get anything from you. Sociopaths are convinced they can rule the world and manipulate people for ever. The fact that he’s not ringing you means that in spite of his grandiose sense of self, you have become one of those really unusual people that he can’t manipulate anymore. And even though sociopaths ususally can’t believe that (see the article on their “irrational optimism”) he finally had to admit that you’re out of his control forever. So well done, and be proud. From him, it’s a great and the only genuine compliment.



fibro hear too. came to me after a long time of depletion, chemical exposure, and a couple of nasty (hallucinating don’t ‘cha know!) flus.

but when i look back, I see also had a choice to make – that i still haven’t made and that is 15 years ago. I made a promise to become a teacher…and i have managed to not freakin’ do it. so, I have some splainin’ to do.

I lost a dream with the spath i tangeld with also. this is heart wrenching. ‘he’ showed me things I wasn’t even aware I ached for – pulled it all up and into the daylight – then faked ‘his’ death.
and it took me a very short bit to start to look for him – and a longer bit to find out who he really was.

but one of the first things i came to was that feeling like I would never be loved or cared for. and i mean ‘cared for’ literally. i have had injury and illness in the last few years that affected my sense of identity, robbed me of my business, through me into depression, and made me not want to try anymore on my own – hence the desire to be rescued came up – after a life of emotional independence, I wanted someone to take care of me. and he promised to. and never did. it was ALL about the spath. and in the end, it was way more about the spath than i could ever have imagined.

so, I don’t feel worthy of my dream or even getting my basic needs met, cause that is what life has been showing me. And I compromised and said, wtf, let’s go for the traditional idea of relationship – let’s throw in the towel – and i couldn’t even GET THAT. and believe me that was my damn failsafe and i didn’t even know it. I just was so tired and beaten, no toehold anywhere, keep scrabbling and taking more and more risks with jobs and moves, etc. cause there is so little where I am.


I think we short changed ourselves somewhere. And I think we have been lied to about the great american dream (it doesn’t exist anymore) of life liberty and freedom – you have to be well and not so poor to expereince freedom in northa america; and bought a story about families and what that collection of tricky b8stards is suppsed to be a bout.

it’s all a bunch of sh*t!!! The idea and the reality DON”T F*CKING MATCH!!

Same thing with the spaths – idea and reality don’t match.

doc wants me to look at drugs for anxiety – yup, will do – right about the time y’all look at and deeply consider what it’s like to be poor and sick, and alone. and give the RIGHT fucking help for THESE things. SO WE CAN STAND FOR OURSELVES FER F*CKS SAKE!

I have done dozens of things for the fibro. one thing that is very important for me is morphine. LOL. just kidding – at one time I wasn’t. What is important is love. and courage (which means we whine and feel alone and unappreciated AND we try the next thing that may help us to unwind the fibro.

And sometimes there is no love and i have to look to the trees and the sky to find it reflected back to me. I don’t know how i would have made it through this year without the trees and the sky.

Bowen has helped me ENORMOUSLY. a friend was doing her training and i have been one of her test cases. it has made ALL the difference to my neck – 2 years now, and it still is bad sometimes, but it DOENS’T SCARE ME ALL OF THE TIME NOW. And that shift is HUGE.

Yesterday – i heat a towel up in the ove, and a bean bag for my neck – and got into bed with the towel over me and listened to a PTSD CD i have by Bellaruth Naperstack. And it all calmed me and soothed me.

WE JUST KEEP GOING. trying, reaching out, next complimentary therapy, next day of energy, next week of fucked and swollen and head so sore and brain so fogged and WHERE did i put the morphine and it’s not right that i can’t afford more acupuncture….I know.

and by some miracle something changes and gets better – of the 2 dozen things we do – some little bit picks us up after YEARS, and we begin to function just a bit better, and that leads to more peace in our hearts cause we realize we really are who we were – we are not this hard hard space and thoughts in our heads – that is the illness and the concurrent depression, and for a day we feel a little warmth and space in our chests around or hearts……….and then we get a draft or get caught i the cold, or walk into a room where there is too much perfume, but we have to see the doctor or go to that interview….and we slide back again. and it is fucking humilating. AND NO ONE HOLDS US AND TELLS US THAT IT ISN’T *US* – IT’S A DISEASE IN A DISEASED SOCIAL SYSTEM.

AND SO IS THE SPATH. We might be predisposed, but it’s the luck of the draw baby AND IT IS EVIL.

What reall began to break it for me was 2 weeks: bieng in the hot of the south of spain, and having sex for the first time in 18 years, and doing a buddhist retreat on concious dying…meditating for 4 days sending my energy out of the central energy channel in my body. Don’t know which and what – all those thing in 2 weeks – and the fibro and depression started to crack.

I too am an emotional eater. Went to OA 12 step for a long time. Helped A LOt. left because of a predatorry pair in the group – I wasn’t sticking around for that – it was spiritually abusive- one of the hardest things i ever did was leave OA. I have tried to go back. Canna do it. But i think there is great value there – just don’t listen to that sh*t that says you are forever tied to it. it is manipulative and sets people up for failure. Women for sobriety is very cool – but i don’t think htye have branched into food the way 12 step has.

When the slippery soaped up plastic rug i was standing on was pulled out from under my feet in the last few months, I started to eat with a vengence. A lot of it is about islolation for me. don’t know how to deal with this yet – but I do get out (i work from home) a couple of times a week and do things. I don’t have much money, so it is very low key – BUT playing scrabble with a friend in a cafe reminds me that something else exists beyond the sh*t of this time. This stuff is hard for me – the food thing. VERY triggered by being devalued.

take care and find yourself some love – hug a tree. and un huh i am completely serious.

peace sista,
one step

You are all truly the best!

I took your advice. I took a deep breath. Then a long bath and vented. I really am loosing it. I don’t feel normal at all so thank you for telling me this is normal. I knew I had broke the first two rules and I’ve really been beating myself up, but then he punished me enough for that. Thank you for passing some of your strength over to me through your post.

Thank you for saying it isn’t me…that has really been eating me up. I’ve tried to tell myself that but it works so much better when someone else cares enough to tell me. His ways make me feel like I am so unlovable. It feels like it’s me.

I have told myself a thousand times that he isn’t capable of love and truth, but you saying it has helped that unbearable pain in my chest and I can’t tell you what a relief that is.

You said that when he couldn’t get it from me anymore he would go elsewhere…maybe that’s why he treated me like the trash that had done been hauled away. (all these months until now)

You give me hope that there is a way for these feelings to go away. Now if I can except that he is not human. I really thought I had but now I guess I was just hiding somewhere in neutral. This really sucks to realize that I have not grown at all in all these months. Thank you for saying that it’s ok to want him to call as long as I don’t answer…I felt so awful for feeling that way that it helps to be told it’s ok.

Telling me that you’d all come over and make hot chocolate and cuddle me and dry my tears, really was the next best thing to it actually happening!

I have been so stuck with not knowing how to get back into life and being so scared of it that I just couldn’t. Your suggestions and encouragement has really gave me the thought that maybe I can get out there and make some touchable friends…although I don’t think anyone could replace you all here and give me the feeling you each have tonight!

You all have such wonderful qualities and to be able to give someone like myself direction is a wonderful ability, I’m not so good at myself.

I have pain all over and suffer physically as you talk, they told me it was fibro, whatever it is , it seems that a lot of us suffer from this constant overall pain and knots and it really isn’t fair that they get to walk away guilt free, pain free, without a glance backwards. The lack of validation really is a horrible thing, I have had a hard time with this and loosing my dreams and time. I feel like you do with being strong and then weak, etc…
I know what you mean about being hugged, it really adds to the loneliness. I’m so sorry for your suffering.

Thank you for being my friends. Thank you for taking the time. Every single one of you have helped me in ways that you’ll never know. I want you each to know that not one word was waisted, each word has helped me and I can’t thank you enough.

thanks for your kind words. when he left i said to him; ‘you’re so far beneath me, i can’t even see you anymore!’ he looked stunned, then got furious and screamed back; ‘i’ll have a vendetta against you forever!’ he knew that i had found out the TRUE him.

one step:
you hit about 20 nerves at a time here. i have to really absorb this.
i’m into photography (one of the very few things i still do and enjoy; when my feet don’t hurt too much to get outside), and most of my photos are of trees and sky and flowers. they are the things that make me feel human now; other humans, i’m just afraid of them deep inside.
i, too, am completely isolated except for my job as a teacher, which is so challenging it’s all i can do to get out of there standing up. i choose to be isolated; too fat, too ugly to be out in public. he took SO much of my self-esteem and self-worth. i work hard to reclaim it, and HELL YEAH, i wish i could afford acupuncture every week!
many of the things you wrote tore through me with their truth. sometimes, it’s too much to absorb any more.

he’s NOT human. none of them are. they are literally some pod-creatures all borne of some hellish blob. i refuse to believe the ex is human. he is the coldest, sickest, slickest, most seductive thing that exists. and i hope i never come within a mile of another one of these creatures. one time, he was laying in my lap, and he looked up at me and i was stunned: he looked like a mythological creature … a satyr i decided later. it was one of the spookiest moments of my life. his appearance gives him a lot of power over women, right down to the strategically-placed scars which i just heard on the news last night, ”when placed so that they give an appearance of toughness, are, in the short term, an aphrodisiac for women.’
god(dess) help us all!

you have all given me hope that what i am experiencing physically is truly the fallout from the spiritual terrorism we have all experienced. i will work harder to take care of myself, and i send blessings and light to all of you, that you do the same. we must move through the myst of sulfur and soot, back into the presence of our truth and our power.

hOLY COW!! the anger, the feeling of being afraid to move, bending over backward for people who DO NOT CARE and will turn the knife in your belly if they get the chance. Erin and pollyanna our mothers have much in common. I actually am very close to my mother but she will not EVER stand up for me or be willing to hear about my pain and anger. It is far too late now, she is 77 years old and has not been very introspective or self-aware , although she will readily admit making mistakes in picking my father who beat her and then my stepfather who did all the other VERY Sociopathic cheating and lies and laziness and stealing and sexual abuse of my youngest sister.

These threads are just exhausting to read when you are exhausted to begin with – but this is where I am in so many ways – Kathleen and Erin and pollyana – the BIGGEST DEAL is having to face your entire belief system based in your dysfunctional family of origin. I think for some of us maybe we are just too nice and people take advantage, but for many of us we are damaged by the people who raised us and we just give and give without expecting good behaviour or trustworthiness or even kindness or reciprocation of our loving feelings from TOO MANY people not only in our own families but others we think of as friends.

Amber, when you said your younger sister ROLLED HER EYES at your pain it just is exactly how I have been treated by the sister I was closest too. We had a good relationship until she moved to where my younger P sister lives, and the younger P manipulated her to isolate and abandon our relationship, and I could not understand what the hell happened. It was crazy what happened – my younger sister was an alcoholic who recovered and went on and has a career and family – but she knew that she could NOT CONTROL me. So she manipulated my other sister to drop me from their lives. I was not so surprised at my P-sister’s behaviour, but what shocked me was my closest sister falling in line and betraying me like that.

As a result of this I have not seen my niece or 3 nephews in 5 YEARS! I was a doting aunt and I have no other children. I lived in another state and would always travel to see them, before I became ill and disabled for the last ten years. My youngest sister never once visited me in 20 YEARS, although I had been to visit her family and children also. One day she lost it on a phone conversation with me, and EVERYTHING changed. I am having an ordinary conversation with her when she suddenly goes into a rage and hangs up on me. I had seen THE MASK DROP, and I was at first bewildered and apologetic, wondering what I had done. The next thing I knew she sent me an email that sounded icy and robotic – saying “that since I had become an ALCOHOLIC who slurred my voice on the phone she and her husband decided they could have no more contact with me until I cleaned myself up.” huh???!!!! It was THE PROJECTION OF HER OWN PROBLEM ONTO ME, I who never have more than an occasional beer or glass of wine.
I spent a long and fruitless time trying to explain the error of her logic and conclusions, which was just her way of gaslighting me since she knew I would never submit to her manipulation.

My other sister said that the p-sister had CONVINCED her that I had a problem and therefore could not be allowed to visit them or see my niece and nephews anymore. I said to her – HOW COULD YOU BELIEVE THIS?? you know it’s not true! This woman is a psych-nurse for pete’s sake!! But my younger sister is the PSYCHIATRIST, so she must KNOW BETTER!!! A good person can be persuaded that BLACK IS WHITE by a cunning spath.

This is a long-term pattern with her. She shunned my mother FOR TEN YEARS, but recently DECIDED that she COULD ACCEPT my mom back into her life. My mother was practically dying and in the hospital for six months and my P-sister did not even call or visit her ONCE!

BUT NOW – after she recently got divorced – she DECIDED to FORGIVE my mother and ALLOW her back into her life.


It is bad enough when you have to get rid of a significant other who has damaged your trust, your finances, and possibly your health and mental well-being. But when you have to do that with your entire family, it is just TOO MUCH! And I know that is the case with many here. I have been trying to be the bigger person while I let them all bleed me to death. After coming to LF I more and more realize that THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT REDEEMABLE, even if they are my family. I do not have to love people who treat me badly – as my mother taught me to do from birth. It just makes me have to repeat being the victim over and over again and I will not take it any more. This XMAS was THE LAST STRAW!

Amber – as your younger sister is only 24 years old, part of her behaviour may just be the arrogance of youth. Give her time. I remember being a bit selfish myself at that age. HOWEVER, if her behaviour and attitude don’t change over time, she is just an a-hole who doesn’t care about or value you, or that you were her surrogate mother. The behavior of my siblings is just ARROGANT and unbelievable, while my mother wants to pretend that we are all one big happy family.

I love them and miss them – my younger sister and brother are very charming charismatic funny people who appear to be kind and concerned and loving – they are both P’s and unredeemable.

I am 53, and the youngest, my brother, just turned 40. We all just found out he was still married to the woman he left FOUR YEARS AGO. She is a psycho-spath-con-user nasty person, and we were all so helpful to him to get him out of that situation. I lent him money which he always tells me (when he sees me) that he will pay me back. He is a liar – he lived with another woman for 1 1/2 years without EVER telling her he had not bothered to get divorced from his psycho wife. We all recently met his new girlfriend when he came to our home town (where my mother lives and I now live). Then my mother found out a month ago THAT HE WAS STILL MARRIED TO THE PSYCHO and had not told his new girlfriend. I said, Mom, that’s it, he is making us all lie to her because we know and she doesn’t!

The new girldfriend only found out about the wife, because the wife hacked into my brother’s FB account and sent her a nasty letter. Nice, huh? As I found out on earlier visits to this site, he is going to ruin the new career he has begun in the army 3 years ago. These wonderful people all spent XMAS together. I was not invited or received so much as a phone call or passing gift. I am so sick of this behavior, and telling my mother that there is no excuse for these people to behave this way. She did raise us to have manners, not mistreat anyone, and to be honest. Apparently it didn’t take. My youngest brother is the stepfather’s son. My mother has been aware from the death of that relationship that he was a classic sociopath. and we have been raised to understand what that is and how they behave. He pretty much abandoned his own son and sexually abused my youngest sister. For years I have tried to be compassionate and understanding but now I am just sick of this behavior. I have always been loving and supportive and friendly and nice blah blah blah, but I am tired of getting the “chit” put back up my ass.

Kathleen, I think you are very good to say that you can only train people to treat you better, but I have tried to undo this for the past five years. I have been vocal to everyone in my family how this behavior doesn’t even make sense. My mother would like to pretend everything is fine – she’s done that from childhood. But some people are just toxic. I love my mother, both my sisters and my younger brother – I was the oldest child and was put in the position of taking care of them all when we grew up, so that is always in me. My mother just makes excuses for people and looks the other way. I am realizing that I have had far too much compassion for these people who have just been horrible to me. It cannot be fixed, regardless of what I do or don’t do. They will just stand back and call me a sucker.

Love is what people do, not what they say. Pollyana I can relate to so much in my childhood is lost in some blur I have no memory of – my sister who is 2 years younger than I am remembers many things that I do not. I have had years and years of therapy and self-help books and really trying to understand what the hell went on in my childhood, but I have only ever had ONE memory come back about anything negative. My last therapist of over 3 years was absolutely convinced that I had been sexually abused, but I really have no idea. I think living with my father’s violence and my mother’s denial were probably enough. She could never deal with me having sadness or anger of any kind without going into a rage herself or giving me the silent treatment while she would slam doors all over the house. Even after my father was killed in an auto accident (I was seven) I was not allowed to grieve or process those feelings at all. She pretended like he had never existed. I remember crying myself to sleep at night as quietly as possible because she could not accept any display of emotion from me.

I really have told myself more than once in the past few years that I shouldn’t even miss spending time with these people. And the LF stories have made me finally wake up and smell the coffee – these people will not ever change, and behave the way a family should. My therapist told me 2 years ago that when I planned to move back home near mom that I would need help from my family. I began speaking to my closest sister, but when I brought up the fact that we could not repair our relationship unless she stopped this delusion that my younger sister had manipulated her into accepting (the result of which estranged me from seeing my nieces and nephews) she said dismissively “Oh, that?” ROLLING EYES ON THE END OF THE PHONE LINE. I just said you know this is just not going to work. I called my therapist IMMEDIATELY and told her NOT to discuss anything with my sister anymore because I cannot TRUST her. I had to move without any help from my family. I have been back in my hometown now for TWO YEARS expecting some kind of reconciliation, but it has never happened. SHAME ON THEM!

I am too good of a person to let them continue to abuse me this way. I am honest and they cannot deal with that.


lostingrief: PHOTOG, ME TOO!!! my camera is broken, unfixable – take epics, take pics! OF TREES AND SKY AND of isolated you. take pics of isolated you so you CAN SEE YOU!


Take pics of too ugly too fat idea and see you and have COMPASSION for girl so duped, so devalued she says bad words to herself about her so precious heart!


Many of the women i know who have fibro and MCS are teachers – sick buildings, stressful jobs that require lots of compassion and few institutional resources to be brought to bear.
They started this group to heal themselves: http://www.healthpursuitsgroup.com/

one step


LIG: wow, SULFUR AND SOOT – i’m taking that one!

Lostingrief – wow – you are digging deep here – look after yourself while you do it. It’s really taxing eh? You’ve hit the nail on the head though – it all stems from the dysfunctional family upbringing – we never had a chance with the SPNs – we were fully primed and ready to be exploited. And yes to go back all the way to the beginning and develop new systems that serve us better is extremely painful but ultimately what we have to do. Isn’t it funny that we intuitively know that? We in our bodies know what we have to do to get better from these experiences and we can see why they happened and what has to change. So the SPNs were really messengers or teachers for us. I hope this contributes to our cushy retirement in the never never afterlife! We definitely deserve it!

HEAVENBOUND … I am glad you’re gathering strength – I know how scary it is to get back into life, but it’s wonderful once you take the first step! And I really would make you hot chocolate – think that is what is best to salve the soul sometimes – a nice steamy mug with froth on top and lots of melty marshmallows!

To the person who said they hadn’t been hugged in ages … I can so relate to that. I have started giving my friends BIG hugs

I am so blessed to have found you ladies (and men). I don’t know what I would have done without your advice, love, support and encouragement – I was in an awful state before coming here. And now things are progressing by leaps and bounds. I know we all have our bad days but there is more than enough love travelling the information highway from the people here to lift one another out of it. Thankyou so much for all your love – there is really no other word for it. For people who have never met me in real life, I feel like you are real friends who actually give a damn about each other and me. I really hope we all get to meet some day 🙂

(excuse me – know we’re all having financial dramas and hangover problems from the Spath b**tards but I am having a huge warm fuzzy moment!)


pollyanannomore check this:

Lostingrief: have you read the BETRAYAL BOND? I got it from the library – it’s awesome.

I am one step ahead of you one step! I had already right clicked and opened it in a new tab – I’m just having too much fun today hopping from post to post having finally discovered the magic time of the day when you all post! Finally nice to be part of a real time conversation lol

Unfortunately that magic time is waaaaay past my bedtime, so good night, or good morning/afternoon everybody!


pollyanannomore: how iz it possible zat you are wun step ahead of wun step!


goodnight eileen!

vit D was at 9! no kidding. i do take the D3, calcium in my multi. good days. bad days.

Dear one_step_at_a_time says and lostingreif – Friends and Fibro Sufferers –

I know from spending some time here that pollyanna has fibro and now I learn that both of you also have this, and I have had fibro for 20 years and have been very disabled for the last ten years. I was working for ten years and then got severe endometriosis and had years of surgeries and abdominal pain so I probably could have worked longer if I only had the fibro.

I have been through every kind of treatment and doctor and therapy you can imagine. I first became ill after divorcing my ex-husband who I had met in college. I left him because he became a deadbeat drug-addicted do-nothing. Being the can-do person I am, I spent YEARS bending over backward and giving him every chance when he deserved nothing from me.

I had to live with my mother the first two years, but I had a very kind doctor who believed me, when the diagnosis was new and was still called fibrositis. I think it happens when we are running on empty for two long, and give too much without expecting much in return. I personally feel that part of it has to do with growing up in an abusive environment, and having a whole lot of frustration and repressed anger, which can also set us up for an abusive relationship. I do not mean that it is just due to these factors, but that STRESS can trigger illnesses that we may already be susceptible to. Doctors are starting to realize that there are some genetic defects that contribute to this illness. The latest research, just saw this last night:


I was able to recover enough that I had a good and rewarding career for the next ten years. I would advise you to try to keep exercising and not to take anxiety or pain pills, but do get massages or physical therapy and learn how to do guided imagery and relaxation, which helped me a lot. Also therapy if and when you can afford it. My original doctor (rheumatologist) was and is a very wise man, and he had noticed that patients with fibro who STAYED in unhappy, unhealthy situations did not get better. He told me this 20 years ago.

I do have to take some pain meds now but I would not take them if I did not have to. I am very unhappy with my family situation and that is not helping – which is part of the reason I am here at LF, because I need to make some positive changes in my life. The other thing that I would tell you is BE VERY CAREFUL in choosing your health care provider. There are still people who believe that it is not a disease, and that you are just neurotic or have a mental problem. If anyone is UNKIND or judgemental when you go to them for medical care walk out the door as fast as you can because they will not help you or believe that you are in pain. Even Social Security did not grant me disability for EIGHT YEARS because of a corrupt system. My lawyer was outraged – they had decided to IGNORE the medical evidence of THEIR OWN DOCTORS. You do not deserve to be treated this way.

I was fortunate that I had disability insurance and a retirement fund at the job where I worked for seven years. Don’t give up your dream because you can get better. And do not put up with people who don’t believe you or think that you are malingering in some way. It was VERY DIFFICULT to renew my career but I am happy that I did. I basically had to put up with a large amount of pain but I LEARNED NOT TO tell people at work how bad I felt. Sometimes I would miss work with a back spasm, so I had a “back problem.” Many people complain about trivial things and I wanted to be taken seriously and not to be labeled as a whiner and complainer. Most people will not GET it. But find your support system and lean on those you can. No point in unburdening your difficulties on deaf ears or trying to explain a very difficult medical problem to people who just want to know how many sick days you will take. I did well at my job because I had a positive attitude, not because I worked more hours than the next person. I was very fortunate and I can hope this will be the case for you also. If you want something bad enough you can make it, so don’t give up your dreams.

I went to a neurologist only last week and he was a complete ASSHOLE. I have been through too much to be condescended to in this way. Even family members have told me that I “just need to get off the pain pills.” They do not know what they are talking about. I worked without any pain meds for years, but certain meds can help, like antideppressants and gabapentin. Find support from people who know and understand. It is very tough and you will have the strength to do what is necessary if you do what you love. You are already here and among people who are very supportive. You have made a positive choice already that you deserve to not be treated badly or you would not be here.

If I can help at all I will be glad to do it. It has been a very big learning curve, but hey life is one big learning curve. When I moved back home, I was able to go back to the same KIND DOCTOR who treated me with so much compassion 20 years ago. This was such a relief to me. Going to any new doctor can be very traumatic if they are not supportive.

It has been very hard for me to get out and do very much, even with the few friends who are still there after 20 years away. But I have found some very special places online and LF is one of them. This is more REAL LIFE to me than some people I have had F2F relationships with, because people here are genuine and kind and KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.

And OXY ALWAYS makes me laugh and lord knows I feel so much better when I laugh!!! I have gone back over a few today and laughed out loud with some of the sillyness that jumps out.

Y’all make me laugh and y’all make me cry, you let me vent, and you speak TRUTHFULLY and HONESTLY. You could not expect any more from a best friend… Thank goodness for the REAL PEOPLE that I have found here.
Keep your EYZ on the PRIZE!


7 steps: 🙂 🙂
🙂 🙂


damn ting won’t let me do more than TWO smiley faces….grumble grumble…defective software..grumble…..

One step = that just rolled off the tongue and fingers lol

Lostingrief – that was dangerously low – have they scanned your bones?

Some good advice there to select healthcare providers carefully and don’t put up with condescension – you are paying for their opinion of your condition – not for attitude! I have encountered some incredibly arrogant specialists and I just don’t go back. I have to pay for everything myself so I can pick and choose who I go to.

I am now looking into alkaline eating – I ate raw for a year and that didn’t give much improvement at all.

I absolutely agree with your sentiments about this community – it’s really great 🙂


pollyannanomore – wish we’d gotten in to this BEFORE christmas…you’ve got a good start of a fibro 12 days of Christmas there!

I like that: paying for opinion, not attitude.

I am quite str8t with the cognitive guy i am seeing – no, I won’t go and have the anxiety disorder evaluated unless they are working within a paradigm which considers multiple chemical sensitivities. period. he is suuuuuch an M.D. (no offense if you are out there libelle!) I also refuse to be drugged because i am poor and sick. f*ck you!

he did tell me that their is some new research that says that chronic fatigue is a form of leukemia. Uh huh. And I believe that cancer is a virus. Everything is genetics and circumstances – bio-chemical and bio-mechanical.

Hi! Everybody, thank you, I am new to this post…and I just want to say that once you have been hooked by a psycho,
You need to find a way to disengage, the problem is not you, it’s them, they are incapable of loving anyone, they do not know how to love. Sure, it sucks, being taken, and you feel so angry, and so hurt, and lost, but you know what…it’s ok
You have to find a way to break free, these people are evil, they are Demons, or Vampires sucking out your life. You have no life, while they hold on tight.
For those of u who have health issues, I am a Dr. in alternative medicine, Acupuncture, vitamins, mineral supplements, homeopathic remedies, healthy food, and Creative visualization helps alot, you can create what ever you want. Praying is also very good, Brings peace.
Keep a journal write down something positive about yourself and every day
stand in front of a mirror and read your comment to yourself
helps bring up your self esteem, self worth, helps you feel good about you.
Psychos don’t care about you, they only care about themselves, and what they can take from you. There is no life
for you with a psycho, they are extremely dangerous, and after they have ruined your life, financially, mentally, physically, threatened, harrassed, and stalked you, once you fight back, they deny ever abusing you, and they become the victim. Run, and don’t look back, the best thing that can happen to anyone caught in a psychos web, is that they find someone new. Let Go…..as hard as it may seem, as lost, and lonely as you may feel, as your world falls apart… thank God
you are still alive…it gets worse, if you continue to hold on.

Dogs and cats are wonderful little beings, especially when the are rescued from shelters, they are greatful, and loving, and
strive to please you, all my animals have been from rescues,in fact I have a sweet black poodle I rescued from Utah, and I’m in Miami, he is the best,
it was meant to be, the rescuer was coming down on vacation
and she brought him down.
Ladies we are united we all share a common problem,
and thanks to all of you we can learn, we can grow, we can
heal, There is Life after a Psycho…..
Happy New Year, may it be peaceful and loving, let Go and Let God, Smile, Believe you are worth it.

Thank you

Welcome Im free – there are a few of us on this blog that have untreatable illnesses – we are just debating whether or not they were caused by the stress of being in a pathological relationship or not 🙂 So I am sure you will be extra specially welcomed with your knowledge!

You’ve had a tangle with a psychopath too I take it? Dogs and cats are indeed incredibly healing and remind us life is short – love hard (not psychos obviously though!)

Polly, what I know about RA, is that it is an auto immune disorder, actually antibiotics is not the best way, what antibiotics do is they mask the problem, so that it appears that
you become symptom free, but in reality it doesn’t go away
it hides and comes back out.
Why don’t u check out mushrooms, reishi, ganoderma,
shitake,maitake, very good to enhance immune system, also
you have to look at your body holistically, mind, body and spirit, they are all connected, acupuncture is very good, chinese herbs are also very good, homeopathic remedies,
diet is impt in chinese medicine you are looking at a phlegm problem, that can be hot or cold, why dont u look at your tongue, and describe it for me, let me know if you have a coating what color, where the front the back the middle, is your tongue thin or wide with ridges on the side, and I’ll get back to you.

pollyanna no more,
“On the 12th day of xmas, my
spath love gave to me,
1 rolfing master
2rheuma tologists
3 masseuses
4 Physiotherapists,
5 ortho surgeons
6 neurosurgeons
7 chiropractors
8 reiki masters
9alternative therapists
10 past life healers
and a partridge in a pear Tree!
Sorry, Polly, I couldnt resist it! {{HUGS!!!}}} Gem.XX

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