By | September 2, 2009 283 Comments

After the sociopath is gone: Loving another. That was then. This is now.

It is perhaps one of the most difficult things to do after having loved, The Lie. To love again without fear of the past repeating itself. To love without fear of making a mistake. Without fear of being hurt.

And yet, we yearn for love. For connection. For that special someone to spend away the hours, sharing in good times and bad. To whisper sweet nothings in the night, to hold and to be held, to laugh with, cry with and even have sex with.

But no, our tender hearts cry out, I can’t do it. I won’t. I’ll never love again. Too risky. Too intimate. Too much.

Or, before our broken hearts even have a chance to stop bleeding, we race out and find another, searching for that special someone to make us feel so special we forget all about the blood dripping from our wounds with every beat of our aching hearts.

We are relational beings.

When I was released from that relationship from hell, I knew I wasn’t healthy enough to date. I knew I was very broken and so I made a commitment with myself to not date for a minimum of a year. I knew that I had to give myself that time to get comfortable with myself again. To heal the tender spots. To soothe my wounded soul and strengthen my sorry ego.

And, underneath my practical approach to what I needed to do to heal was the absolute truth. I was absolutely terrified of getting close to a man. I was terrified I’d vomit all over his leather jacket because it happened to have the same smell as the one I’d given ”˜Him whose name I could not speak’ our first Christmas together. Or, I was terrified I’d break down crying in a restaurant just because my date happened to order the same meal ”˜He’ had ordered the night he’d proposed to me. Or what if, while sitting in a movie, my date reached across to take my hand and I wasn’t expecting it and I got all scared and accidentally slapped him in the face and made such a scene I got up and ran out of the theatre and we were sitting in the middle of the row and everybody had to get up and let me out and I’d feel like such a fool and when I got outside I kept running because, well, I was such a loser!

Seeing as my psyche was pretty caught up in some pretty serious fortune telling of the negative kind about weird and wacky things that would happen if I dated, it seemed wisest to not date — at least until such time as I could look at a man across a table and not want to hurl my plate at him just because he preferred his steak rare. Doesn’t he know? Eating steak rare is a red flag suggesting he was out for blood! A vampire of the sociopathic kind!

And so, the year became two, and then three. It wasn’t that I didn’t want to date. It was just, even after I’d gotten over my fear of pending dating disasters with every dinner invitation; every time I went out on a date I couldn’t figure out how much of the sordid tale I should tell. Do I warn him I’ve got some serious trust issues about men on the first date? Do I tell him I’m hyper-vigilant when it comes to his behaviour? What about the ”˜three times, you’re out’ rule? How much do I tell and when?

It seemed easier to not date than to try to figure out the ins and outs of dating etiquette after the sociopath is gone. And so, I created a story of my satisfaction with my single status, laughingly telling anyone who listened that I liked my life better without a man.

Reality is; we are relational beings. For the vast majority of us, the desire for intimacy, the yearning to be in relation with someone special, is part of our human condition.

Challenge is; looking at my track record up to and including ”˜Him whose name I do not speak’, I wasn’t sure how to be in relationship without my patterns leading to the ”˜new love’ becoming the ”˜ex’, regardless of what a true prince he was.

History does not repeat itself — unless I make it happen.

And then I met C.C.. I met him through business. Oh oh. I met the sociopath through business too. Strike one. He was a friend of a friend. So was ”˜Him whose name…’ Strike two.

What am I doing? My mind shrieked. Am I repeating history? Two similarities right off the bat. Not good.

C.C. even liked cars. Oh no. ”˜He’ liked cars too. Had lots of them. The difference with C.C. was, he liked cars but they weren’t his life. He drove an old antique Mercedes that he’d lovingly restored. And that was his only car. Okay. Only one car. It’s old. We’re okay.

The real difference though between ”˜Him…’ and C.C. was evident from the very first time I met him. C.C. didn’t flirt. He didn’t come on to me or even try to convince me to go out with him on our first encounter. And he never ignored my ”˜No’.

In fact, when we met he was just coming out of a marriage of twenty years and wasn’t looking to date. We’d have lunch or coffee and talk about life and living and I’d share what I’d learned in my growing through the pain of having loved, The Lie, and he’d share his love of his kids and his sorrow at having ”˜failed’ as a husband.

It wasn’t until after about a year of a casual friendship that he asked me on a date, or, as I insisted we call it, an ”˜undate’. “We’re not going out,” I told him. “We’re simply spending some time together to share in the company of someone we enjoy who happens to be of the opposite sex.” And pretty sexy to boot — I didn’t tell him!

Two years later, C.C. and I live in a home we bought together. We continue to deepen our intimacy and to strengthen our commitment to each other. We still have ups and downs. Moments when I think, “Someone to cuddle in bed just isn’t worth this!” But, reality is, my responsibility in our ups and downs are 100% my doing. And his accountability is 100% his doing. I am willing to work on my 100% and I am willing to let him be responsible for his.

And that’s the difference between then and now.

I’m not looking for C.C. to fix me, change me, improve me. And, I’m not looking to fix, change or improve him.

What I’m looking for is a relationship where I can be accountable for myself 100% of the time, and be confident that even when I’m acting out, even when I’m not hearing him or seeing him or behaving in a loving way, our love is not the issue. It’s my behaviour that’s at fault, or needs changing or evaluating and realigning. It’s not ”˜me’. It’s what I’m doing, or how I’m reacting to what’s happening that’s the issue.

True Confessions.

Recently, I came front and centre with my 100% accountability factor. It started with C.C. phoning late in the afternoon to cancel on plans we’d made for that evening. “My partner and I need to meet to go over a crisis situation. Sorry hon. Can’t be avoided. I’ll be home as soon as I’m done,” he said.

Now, ”˜Him whose name I do not speak’ did that kind of thing all the time. Plans made. Cancelled. Promises broken. Disappearances that lasted for days. Turmoil and mystery. Empty promise after empty promise.

My psyche went on full alert. The past was triggered and I boarded its runaway train.

Know that voice in your head that just won’t shut up? After hanging up the phone, ”˜that voice’ revved up into high gear.
“You know he’s lying,” the sibilant hiss of that voice raced through my mind, skirting in and out of the shadows. Beguiling. Seductive. Destructive. “He’s lying. He’s not meeting a business associate. He’s got a date with someone else. He’s conning you.”

Now, let’s be clear. I had no real reason to doubt him. C.C. has never not phoned when he’s promised to phone. Never not appeared, on time, when he’s promised to appear. Perhaps it was I was tired. I’d been out of sorts about all kinds of things in the previous week, including issues with my eldest daughter and her father, who was being who he’d always been, an emotionally distant man but not a sociopath.

Normally, in my post sociopath awareness, I can quieten ”˜that voice’ with a good dose of loving care. “You’re just scared, Louise. That was then. This is now. C.C. is not Him… C.C. has never done anything to cause you to doubt him.”

Alas, on this night, the furies were about and I unhooked their cage and released them.

I got in my car. Yup. I got in my car and drove to where I knew C.C.’ meeting was to be. ”˜If I just see his car there, then I’ll know he didn’t lie.’ I told myself. ”˜I need to do this to give me peace of mind.’ ”˜There’s nothing wrong with being suspicious. After all I’ve been through, why wouldn’t I be suspicious?’

And the justifications carried on, and on and on as I drove closer and closer to my date with the furies. Tears streamed from my eyes. I played a CD filled with songs of love betrayed just to fuel my pain and my feelings of self-loathing. I cried and I cried. I drove and I drove. With every block closer to my destination, the voice of reason receded further and further from my reality.

“You know this is wrong, Louise,” the voice of reason admonished.

”˜That voice’ snarled back. “Bug off. She has to do this. It’s your fault anyway. If you’d just kept her from falling in love with him I wouldn’t have to step in and protect her!’

I’d like to say I came to my senses before I got to my destination. But I didn’t. His car was there. He hadn’t lied. I turned around and headed home.

I have nothing to fear but myself.

I hated what I’d done that night. Hated that I had given in to fear and talked myself into behaving in a way that undermined my higher good.

It was a great lesson. In the end, I discovered the truth about what I was doing. It wasn’t that I couldn’t trust C.C.. It was that I didn’t trust myself enough to do the right thing. I was letting myself down by giving into my fears. I will wilfully behaving in a distrustful way. I was being untrustworthy and undermining our relationship.

Regardless of whether C.C. was or wasn’t where he’d said he’d be, I had let my fears control me. I had let myself react without giving care to what I was creating in my life. Harmony or discord? The choice was always mine. That night I chose discord.

It was several months before I told C.C. what I’d done. I knew that had I told him that night, while I was still feeling off-centered and out of control, he would not have been able to hear me speak of what had compelled me to act in such a foolish and distasteful way. He would only have heard the bare facts — I hadn’t trusted him enough to believe him.

Trust is a big issue for C.C.. We’ve discussed it many times. He needs to know he is trusted in order to trust.

My big issue is safety. I need to feel safe to know I am safe. My behaviour that night had nothing to do with C.C. and everything to do with what was going on in my head. I wasn’t safe within me.

Intimacy can do that to me. In having come through those years of abuse and healing, I know I am okay. But, as I get closer to another human being, along with the joy of knowing I am loved, I am loveable, I am enough, the fears of never being good enough, or of being made to look like a fool, also awaken.

It’s up to me to tame them with ample doses of self-love and liberal dollops of truth and honesty, accountability and authenticity.

When I did tell him about my ride with the furies raging in my head, I ensured I began the conversation with a statement of how much I love him. In the end, he heard me say, “What I did had everything to do with me and my issues around intimacy. It had nothing to do with you and your trustworthiness.” And in his hearing me from where I was at, intimacy deepened, love survived.

We’ve weathered that storm. Climbed different mountains, crossed other seas. And through it all, I am learning that loving another is a journey of discovery. It is a voyage of wonder where I get to let go of holding someone else accountable for how I’m feeling, how I’m acting and what I’m thinking.

To be in relationship with another requires that I first and always hold true to my relationship with my self. To act out is to act against my values, beliefs and principles. To act in love is to embrace all that is wondrous, miraculous and Divine in me.

I am responsible for me. It is my responsibility to act in my higher good, and to not let myself down on the side of doing the wrong thing. Love requires my attention. I deserve my loving care. And love deserves I turn up, pay attention, speak my truth and stay unattached to the outcome. And when I do, love blossoms and I am safe within me.

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“My psyche went on full alert. The past was triggered and I boarded its runaway train.” Love the analogy.

I haven’t ventured toward ANY sort of relationship- an unexpected knock at the door or an unrecognizable phone number can send me into a tizzy at times. I’m at the 3yr mark myself and cannot picture anything like that for me. It’s nice to hear stories with happier endings.

Ox Drover

Eight months after my husband’s death, I fell into the trap of a psychopath, escaped eight months after that and haven’t dated since (nearly 4 years) This past week I had 3 dates with a new man I met and was comfortable with the dates.

It made me feel good just to be asked and made me feel good to know someone who was bright and funny wanted to share time with me. A great ego boost, but I also realized as I thought about this, that while it did feel good, this man’s opinon of me didn’t make or break my opinon of me. Before, when I was with the P I let him make or break my day, my week, simply by how he treated me.

The upshot of the dates was that I reaffirmed my own confidence in myself. Of course our “dates” didn’t lead (so far) to any real or true intimacy, but they were fun adn that in itself was more than enough. My life didn’t end when he left his summer home here and went back to his other home in another state.

I do home, but not expect, that someday I might again share a real and true intimacy with a man, but my happiness, my life, doesn’t DEPEND on that…my life and my happiness depend on me.

Louise I am glad you have found a loving man and are working on building a loving and trusting life together. TOWANDA!

super chic

Thank you very much for taking the time to write such an interesting article! I hope that somebody asks me out so I can try out some of this advice (I probably would not trust them). If love is Superman, then I’m Kryptonite. I figure men are not asking me out because they are intimidated by my beauty.


As I read your story, I thought, “NO! Don’t trust him! Go see if he is where he said he would be!”
And you did. Just like I think I would have done.

Or maybe not, maybe I would have stewed in anger and mistrust for years until it nearly killed me. Because that’s what I did do.

Your story stirred a strong emotional reaction in me because when I first met the P, I tried to check on him but he was too slippery. He was accustomed to looking over his shoulder, arranging alibis, and he could read me when I didn’t believe him. So I used a different strategy, I gave up. I decided not to spend all my time and money playing spy vs. spy. I just gave up and decided to accept that I could never trust him. Then I tried to leave him so many times and he conned me into coming back. When I resigned to not trusting him AND not being able to verify, I should have left for good.
Louise, I know you don’t like what you did. But IMHO, you may have done the right thing. For now, you had to do this for you. For your own sanity. Hopefully, that need will go away soon.


I guess you could say I had a date tonight.
It was just one drink with an old friend who has always shown interest in me. I hadn’t seen him for 4 years.
Funny thing, for a while back in the mid 90’s I was also interested in him, but I don’t think I ever let him know and about 5 years ago I rejected a pass he made because I didn’t want to be unfaithful to the P. LOL! THE IRONY OF IT ALL!
Problem is, I just suspect everyone of being a P! He is very nice, but I keep asking myself, “why is he not married yet?” “Why no girlfriend?”
I told him most of my horror story because, he is, after all an old friend. And he is understanding. I put a lighthearted spin on it so as not to freak him out.
I’m so out of touch with my own feelings that I really wouldn’t know what to do if he made another pass at me. He did hug me really hard. I worry that if I don’t respond he will think it is just because I don’t like him in that way. When in fact, I’m not sure I can like anyone in that way anymore.
I’m not any less depressed than before I went on the date.
I guess I envisioned my next date would be with a prince riding a white horse and “saving me”. That’s the root of my problem, isn’ it?


Skylar….get out of that barn…..there ain’t no white horses…..
I still believe there are princes though…..just no white horses!
If your out of touch… will evolve into being in touch…..let it go where it will go….without worry of how/who/what/where//////He is an old friend, he knows you…hopefully….and likes you for YOU!
Just let it be light….don’t be going on no horseback excursions. OR GETTING PREGNANT LIKE OXY and running him off to Georgia….
Have fun with it…..


OMG….I think it’s contagious……
I just got an invite, from a relatively NEW friend….cute one at that! Asking MOI on a date tomorrow night!
YIKES……A DINNER DATE? Not coffee, not a walk in the park…..DINNER?
AND what timing…..after my post about portraying myself as a 420lb, grey headed and stretch marked up woman…..I thought….damn girl…..don’t ever portray yourself in that light again….so today I spent the morning at the beauty shop…..
I got my hair highlighted, cut and pedi/mani……I am feeling pretty good……all day with my new bouncy hair…..I spent a fantastic afternoon VACUMING…..with my bouncy hair!
And then the invite comes…..
The law of attraction I presume ? Feel good about yourself and others will feel good about us too?

Okay, so after tomorrow I may need some help planning my wedding shower….so keep your eyes peeled for some nice colorful ‘chalk’ mints we can serve as favors.


WOW, I feel like the 23 year old virgin my girlfriend reminds me that I am…..
I must remain in control…..CONTROL ERIN, CONTROL……..!!!!!

This means I get to enjoy a nice bordeaux with someone…..YIPPPPPEEEEEE!!!!!!!

Keep ya posted…..
DANG….what does one wear….guess I must get out of the sweats then!


erinB – you crack me up – vacuming with bouncy hair sounds like good therapy……..


skylar – I used to joke that i kept hay out in the barn for my Prince’s white horse – that hay got moldy and I used it for mulch – I done kissed too many frog’s – my prince is already taken…


I have been a serial victim of sociopaths starting with my parents and every man i have been with from the word go. I did all the “law of attraction” seminars and louise hay and Catherine Ponder and Sondra Ray (Sondra is definitely a narcissist), ad naseum. But it wasn’t till I came to LF that i finally “got it”.
I have been relatively safe up until today,(because of my friends here on LF) in my class even though my teacher is a psychopath and two of my “friends” turned out to be the same. However, today the teacher launched her full scale attack on me, ( I knew it would come just didn’t know WHEN)of devalue and discard and humiliate. I told her i had a bad headache (which I did), and off she went at a hundred miles an hour for the next half hour humiliating me in front of everyone. ” SO DO I HAVE A HEADACHE! (she yelled), “AND IF YOUR FEELING VULNERABLE TODAY TILLY, ITS TOO BAD BECAUSE>>BLA BLA BLA” Of course the two fake friends (also sociopaths) joined in with her, (which was EXTREMELY predictable as they have been baiting me for some time). Needless to say, I packed up my things as soon as they finished humiliating me and went home (this will make it worse but i don’t care). I felt very sad inside but I didn’t show it. I didn’t show anything come to think of it.
Not sure what my next move is as i have seven more weeks of her to go. I have got through the first seven weeks ok with love frauds help. I am supposed to be in her class even as I write.
She said (as i was leaving), “you are not allowed to leave this class until the end ! which is in four hours!”. Still, I didn’t look back, I saw the two fake friends smug faces as they laughed at me as I left.
It felt right to go. She seriously verbally attacked me bigtime. Not much that she didn’t say. She even started on my clothes and weight. ( not that i am very big, in fact she is bigger than me! lol!) I wish Henry and Matt had been there with me! Boy they would have shot her down in a second! I didn’t have the energy to play the game today, but i had to turn up at class.I knew before i got there it would be on, I had the feeling. I lasted half an hour of total humiliation. I know I was on borrowed time with her as I had stopped playing the game and have been ducking and weaving instead of adoring her.
What should I do next? Maybe I should get sick again. As I actually do get sick in her class now. No, can’t think straight now. Too triggered. This stuff brings all my rage back at the last p boyfriend. i want to go over there right now and kill him. (Don’t worry i wont i am not up to it..)Funny how it works.


People often talk about being abandoned by their parents when they were young. And every song is filled with unrequited love. But few talk about the grief of being abandoned by your children. I lived for my kids all my life. I brought 2 ofthem up on my own and the third on my own till he was 12. Then i had him every school holidays until he was 17/18.
I put my kids first. The sociopaths tried endlessly to hurt me through my kids in every way fathomable. I put my kids first no matter what. After all, they only had me and each other.
Now i have one child who hasn’t abandoned me completely. My older two are cluster Bs. My youngest is struggling under the weight of his sister and his girlfriend turning him against me. It makes me furious. But I am powerless to do anything at all. Three times they have nearly succeeded in the last three months.
No-one in the big wide world expresses the pain of having your children abandon you. Only here on LF is it acknowledged as a pain that is worse than if they had died.


What i long for is to come home and lie down ans someone say. “Tilly, how was your day? You look sad, can I make you a cup of tea?”
And I would say, “yes please!! I have had a sad day but if you give me a hug I just know it will all fall away. ”
And then we hug and they make me a cup of tea and we talk about THEIR day, which was very happy. And we have a big laugh about life and its ups and downs.
That for me would be better than anything.


Dearest sweet tilly, I feel for you! I have been abandoned by both my kids. I do know the terrible pain of it.If I could come down this cyber tube and give you a huge hug, I WOULD!!I would make you a cup of tea, wrap you up in nice warm PJs, snuggle you in a big shawl, cook you a lovely meal,rub your forehead with lavender oil. But I cant, so they will have to be cyber PJs, Cyber cups of tea, a cyber meal, and a cyber lavender head rub! we are in this together, united we stand, divided we fall! “Nil Bastardum carborundum!” which means,”
Never let the bastards grind you down! Towanda!!Lots of Love and a big cyber {{{HUG!!!}}} geminigirlXXPs I agree, the pain is worse than if they had died, then at least wed have closure, and could grieve, and move on.HANG IN THERE GIRL!! we love you!!


Tilly…..How was your day…..(read above post)….I am so sorry you are not feeling well today….Can I make you a nice cup of tea……here you go darling….This should go down nice. Come sit down and chat with me…..I have some good news to share with you….It should cheer you up….
I got my hair done today….and my nails….see…..(jumping up and down) how bouncy my new ‘do’ is…..isn’t the color wonderful…..I LOVE it…..Oh, thanks Tilly…..I knew you would like it too…..How about if we go and get you some bouncy hair too……quick, let’s make the apt….My treat!
I have a dinner date tomorrow…let’s see how my bouncy hair fares for me… least my self esteem is up today!
Why don’t you take a nap and dream of things to come….good things that you will achieve and working on….dream about where you will be in a short time….with all
of your awareness and knowledge about yourself….
Dream and you will believe….
Believe and you will achieve…..

Do not give anyone power over you.
I hope your day get’s better……



“‘you are not allowed to leave this class until the end ! which is in 4 hours!'”

Damn, Tilly. You have to tolerate this teacher in 4-hour doses???

I had no idea. When I was in college, the classes were only 50 minutes. No wonder you are drained. Don’t let it get you down, though. You are one of the most resilient people I know. And, tomorrow is a new day.

“Not sure what my next move will be as I have 7 more weeks of her to go.”

You don’t need a next move. Just get through these next 7 weeks. Less than 2 months to go, Tilly! You can do this!

In the meantime, I will help you think of some parting words that you can leave with her (and the fake friends) on the very last day of class, when you are walking out the door. 🙂
Something like, “I would tell you to go and get help for yourself, but there is no help for you.”

And, if you REALLY want to turn the knife into the teacher on the last day, leave her with these parting words, “Those who cannot DO, teach. (This is basically telling her that she is not talented enough to earn a living as an artist, so she has to teach, instead.) Doesn’t really matter if it is true or not. This line is potent, and that is what we want. If I were an art instructor, and someone said that to me, it would be a dagger to my heart. 😉

Ox Drover

Dear Tilly,

Oh my, what a BEAST she is! With her little beasts following after her and attacking you. That’s the way they are, they hunt singly and oh what they do when they have an audience!

It hurts to be attacked, but the thing is dear Tilly, her words can only hurt if you give a RAT’S BUTT! She attacked your weight? SO FREAKING WHAT!!!?? She attacks you because she says words that hurt you?

WHY do they hurt you? Because you let them. Do you really care what a P thinks of you? Well, yea, you do, so QUIT CARING WHAT SHE SAYS about your weight, or your hair, or your head ache, or your art!

She hates you because that is all she has inside of herself. she is like the “whitewashed tombs” that Jesus spoke of, FILLED WITH ROTTING CORPSES. She is nothing but inside her a rotting corpse, just pretending to be alive, but still STINKING.

What should you do? I think you should get your stuff, and go back to class and realize that SHE cannot humiliate you. Of course her little suck up demons will laugh with her, but you know what? They can’t hurt you either!!! Not if you don’t allow them to! YOU ARE BETTER TILLY! YOU ARE STRONGER!!!

Just look her in the eye and ask her next time she says something nasty to you, “What are you getting out of trying to humiliate me?” Say it sweet, calm and nice. No matter how she responds, just go on with your work like she isn’t in the room. If she tries to make you respond, just repeat the question until she leaves you alone.

I am pretty sure any others in the class are embarassed for HER not for you. They’d be pretty stupid to not see what she is doing.

IN THE END, TILLY, YOU WILL HAVE THE LAST LAUGH—-YOU ARE NOT LIKE HER!!! Get on your knees and thank GOD that you are NOT a psychopath! Bettter to be attacked by one than to BE one. ((((hugs)))) and you know I pray fo ryou!!! Love Oxy

Ox Drover

Dear EB,

I am NOT preg, I just LOOK that way. It is always WISE to NOT mention “when is your baby due?” UNLESS YOU SEE THE HEAD EMERGING BETWEEN THE WOMAN’S LEGS—too many of us LOOK preg when we are not! Besides, in order to get preg, you have to be “exposed” and sweetie, been a LOOOOOONG time since I got “exposed.” In fact, I think I am a retro-fit virgin again it’s been so long. LOL ROTFLMAO

I gave up on the beauty salon, I am looking for lipo-suction and a good plastic surgery, maybe that would help! Or maybe a life sized photo of me when I was “young and pretty” and I could just hold it up in front of myself on the date!

He did call me from Georgia and then again from Mobile AL where he had gone to help a friend with a saw mill. In fact, he called me to ask me a question about something I had told him I was working on here at the farm, he was riding in the truck with his friend and obviously talking about me to his friend and the things I was doing, etc. so at least he found me “interesting conversation”—ROTFLMAO

Keep us posted on your date!

super chic

Tilly, don’t forget… you are fabulous! When you come home, have a cup of tea with us, that’s what I do (except mine’s a diet soda!!) Her behavior is so inappropriate it’s shocking, even her twisted brain should realize this. Document everything like EB does, just in case!!! Iagree with the others, you should just go and get it over with, you’ll be glad you did. She’s a bitchopath on top of being a P.


you have to go for seven more weeks. do not cause a narcisstic injury to those people or it will just get worse.
AGREE with them. if they say you’re fat, say, “OMG, there is nothing worse than being fat!” Are your clothes funny? say, “It’s true, we should all be more aware of the way we dress, clothes make the man/woman” Your nose is too big? Ask them, “do you know a good plastic surgeon?”
Notice that none of these responses are about you or them, only about the statement. So you could actually be talking about THEIR weight, clothes, or nose.


Hi Tilly,

Newbie here on LF but not new to the Ns and/or Ss in my existence.
I am not sure what kind of class you are taking (art, thus the 4 hours?) but it sounds perfectly horrible to be treated as you have been in an educational environment by your instructor and her evil minions.
Hang in there and be tuff! And let the humiliation they dish out become your strength to do your best work in this class and “show them!”
I have always had a (survival?) habit of boxing away in the recesses of my mind, any terribly unpleasant experiences with my X, in order to keep the peace and calm the situation for the sake of my children. When the time called for it, I would unpack the “box” and deal with it……. I must admit I still have some boxes rattling around in there….
My therapist had a very difficult time with me driving home one particular point about my XN ( I was always appealing to his needing to do the right and moral thing….to his HEART)
She finally said to me ” YOU NEED TO GET THIS THROUGH YOUR HEAD AND UNDERSTAND THIS—–HE DOES NOT HAVE A “HEART” AS YOU KNOW IT, HE HAS A LITTLE BLACK HOLE WHERE A HEART SHOULD BE!!!!”…..and THIS is how you need to look and him and therefore understand how to deal with him.
Same thing for your teacher, Tilly. Do not let them get you down no matter what they say, for it comes from a black hole where a heart should be!
Best wishes!

Ox Drover

Dear HeartMoonStar,

Good post to Tilly, I haven’t welcomed you yet, but have been reading your posts. glad you are here! This is a great place with some great articles. I suggest to newbies that they go back adn read just the archived articles (they are listed on the left by month) there are hundreds of them and some have hundreds of comments, but if you just read the articles themselves to start with as well as current articles and comments, you will get a Ph.D. in psychopathic studies as well as some great hints on healing yourself.

If you have children with your P, go to Dr. Leedom’s blog on Raising the At Risk Child, it has great information for parents of children by a P to help them develop a conscience.

This is a great place and good friends here. Again, a belated welcome! God bless your journey.


I haven’t been on alot lately because of computer problems. But from where I left off I do remember reading about your problems at school.

TILLY you are one of the strongest women I know. Maybe that sounds odd because I have never met you in person. But I believe you can learn a whole lot about someone when you hear of their struggles in life and how they survive them. And GIRL, you are a survivor.

Think of your background. USE that background to your advantage. You survived (AS A CHILD) living with these toxic people as your parents! You survived being in relationships with them as an adult. And you survived being abandened by 2 of your 3 children. NOTHING is more painful than accepting a terrible REALITY of our own children. And you have managed to do ALL of that.

Tilly you are a HERO. In the truest sense of the word. Most of us can barely make it through even one encounter with the likes of these toxic people.

Don’t let this horrible woman get the best of you.
What is that old saying that we told our children when they were little…..Sticks and stones can break my bones but words will never hurt me.
PUT ON YOUR THICK SKIN and HOLD YOUR HEAD UP HIGH. When you go back into that classroom.
I know that you are a strong woman and I think she just “got to you” when you were having a bad day. A weak moment.
Maybe it wasn’t even her attempt to humiliate so much that got to you, as much as you were just feeling down to begin with. I “hear” that when I heard you say that it would have been nice to come home to someone that cares and could offer you some tender loving care.

It is hard to feel so “alone” and fighting off these “monsters”.
But if anyone can do it I have faith in YOU.
It doesn’t pay to fight back and to try and put her in her “place” right now for you as she will hurt you in other ways. (grades) But if you don’t let her think she is getting the BEST of you maybe she will find another target.

In the meantime do something to build your spirits. Do something to pamper yourself and feel good about yourself.

If you can afford to get a new haircut like Erin B. If you can’t do something like that maybe take your painting supplies to a nice park and start painting a peaceful picture. Whatever it is that you would enjoy…Take the time out to do this for yourself.

Ox Drover

Hey, Witsend,

You is your day!? Great advice to Tilly! Tilly, look at how many of us are BEHIND YOU, a mob of us, there WITH you, cheering you on! Booing her, hissing at her…just imagine that when she starts in on you!!! You CAN DO IT!!!

Hey, imagine me riding in on Fat Ass swinging my skillet and BOINKING her on the head over and over and every time I hit her her head gets flatter! And a flat head doesn’t FLATTER anyone, especially not that witch. I will pound her horns inito her flat head!!! and Fat Ass will step on her long red forked tail!

Get the PICTURE IN YOUR HEAD and SMILE while she vomits her crap! That is all it is she has oral diarrhea, nothing but chit comes out her mouth! ((((hugs))))


I think you are looking at this all wrong. You’re an artist right?
Don’t artists have to suffer to produce great art?
Don’t run from the P’s, use them in your art. What do you see, feel and sense when they are in your presence?
Paint them. Do a spoof on Shakespeare’s witches:
Double double toil and trouble;
Fyre burn and cauldron bubble.
or find another analogy that fits in with your current assignments.
How about the analogy of crabs which you mentioned earlier?
Paint crabs trying to crawl out of a witches cauldron. LOL.


Tilly Witsend said:

‘Tilly you are a HERO. In the truest sense of the word. Most of us can barely make it through even one encounter with the likes of these toxic people.’

and she is right!

I HATE that you are having these constant battles with these horrible people, and I wish the focus was less on THEM and more on you. Screw them. (I know you have to deal with the teacher to do your class).

So we know there is nothing we can do about others and their crappy behaviour… but what can we do for ourselves?

You ARE an amazing person, there are people here that you dont even ‘know’ who recognise your strength.

Focus on Tilly.xx

(rambling story alert) My son saved his pocket money and today bought some starwars thing action figure robot, that, (in the movie) puts up a bubble shield to which laser attacks are impervious.

I wish you could have a Tilly sheild. not from the good stuff, just the bad. Then you wouldnt even HAVE to ‘DEAL’ with it because it doesnt ‘get through’. Its NOT part of your life. It has no bearing OR effect. actually, I dont ‘wish’ I am asking you to do that.

You know that thing that S/P’s do with us, where they toss us away like toilet paper… the things that have hurt you, the stupid crap things people say…do the same. They’re NOTHING and they take (thought) time and energy away from you. You have better things to think about ( your ideas, your work, what youre having for dinner that you REALLY fancy and havent had for ages… things you want to do…).

LOTS of love to you Miss Tilly


That’s great that he is keeping in touch…..
You are SOO RIGHT about asking someone about being pregers….
I remember once, in Costco….I had a herniated disk and I walked like I waddled….This lady came up to me loud voice and all…..saying….OH…..when is your baby due…you look so uncomfortable…I was MORTIFIED! I didn’t know what to say….Becasue I was still in caretaking mode back then…..and didn’t want to embarass HER… I went along with her and GAVE HER A DATE!!!!!
Once we ask that stupid question and realize we just messed up…….you NEVER DO THAT AGAIN!!!!!!

You are so right!

Well, maybe one day, when the time is right and the relationship is fab and your in love again……OOOHHHHHHH……You may have an opportunity to ‘do something’ about your retrofit.
BUT for now…..all I can do is tease you about it……and wish the very very best for my friend OXY!
BTW…..I too am a virgin…’s been 28 years since I’ve participated in the ‘deed’…….because sex with the S sucked, so it didn’t count! 🙂
My ‘friend’ called me this am……I played it cool…..(against all my excitement)…..I limited the conversation to the plans of tonight and they said I had a meeting…. I get so wrapped up and ahead of myself that I MUST contain my outward behaviors as to not scare him off…..
I KNOW how to be a wife…….I was damn good at that……
I have NEVER dated……so this I must learn….
You don’t just meet and go into a relationship……
I wouldn’t want this anyways…..I am proud of my emotional growth and personal control and awareness.
We will see how tonight goes…..Italian food…pretty simple.
I will not be changing my sheets on my bed, nor wearing sexy underwear….IT”S JUST DINNER!!!!!
I want him, if interested and mostly me too, to persue ME! If he wants me…..I don’t come easy…
I made that mistake 28 years ago…..
I will not tell him about my illness, I will not tell him abot my S, I will not tell him about my kids…..
MY strategy is keep it positive and ABOUT HIM! I already know I am worthy and great…….I want to know about HIM!
Wish me luck……I will feel your spirit behind me, as I always do.
I might even chuckle as I think of Matts Adonis and the cute poolboy name I can’t remember……

For now, I feel GOOD!
love you guys!


Skylar:) I have to jump in here and say I am an artist too and you know, I cannot function when things are crap just like everyone else. Maybe there is a myth here about artistic types… ‘being able’ to easily express emotions in some form, maybe in a way others cannot, does not mean we NEED negative life crap. It kills us just the same way as it does everyone else… that’s what I think any hoo. MY BEST work comes when I am happy… It comes like a flood actually… :-Sxxx
(P.S, been going through a dry spell;)


blueskies and tilly,
You may be right, I’m just trying to find a silver lining in the fact that we have to suffer so much.
It’s UNFUKCINGBELIEVABLE how many N/S/P’s are out there.
I still can’t get over it.
THERE IS NO REASON for people to act this way. It accomplishes NOTHING.
I’m pretty sure that I know NO normal people. Well, one sister. That’s it.
Sorry I ranted. I have been feeling very negative the last few days. I’m trying to be positive, but HOW?
Even my “date” didn’t cheer me up because I suspect everyone of being a P, including my date. (there are reasons for this, that have more to do with his history than his behavior.)
I also do better work when happy (but sometimes angry helps too). Being depressed or filled with grief doesn’t work at all.
I dreamt about the P last night.
We were back in the old apartment where we first lived together. It was so dusty that you could barely breathe. The dust was like a thick layer on everything and everything was gray. I was trying to tell him something, I think it was that everything was going to be ok. But he was expressionless and he had a knife which he was using to fix something with. But I was very nervous about the knife because I couldn’t read his expressions – there was none.


congrats on going on a real date! Don’t wait too long to re-lose your virginity. Since I’m also a born-again virgin for 15years (I refused to have sex with the P for fear of diseases), I’ll be rooting for you!


Hi OxDrover,

Thank you for the welcome and this is a wonderful site. I have been reading the articles and comments when time allows….I think I will be up to speed by 2011.. 🙂
Thank you for the advise as to Dr. Leedom’s blog. I do have a 16 year old son that i share joint custody with, but also 2 older daughters that have moved out of state, one to go to college, the other finished college, took a year off to explore NYC, and stayed!
I was wondering where you got your name, OxDrover, so interesting…and then I found a post of yours where you actually owned two oxen! That is so cool!
My name here…..well, I would like to say I chose it because my Heart was moved to the dark side of the Moon because of my Ex-N, and now has moved out into Star-light…but I cannot lie…..the shirt I put on, just before I registered…..the label on it read HeartMoonStar….haha.
What I would like to know is where can I find the definitions for all the single letters used….like I know N is for Narcissist, P for Psychopath, what are the others?


EB here from cloud nine! Or was it cloud six…..
Heres the skinny……
NO I AM NOT PREGERS……for starters….and we might want to hold off stocking up on the pastel chalk mints for now….
I was very good, nice, and on mostly on my best behavior…..*for me! 🙂
As I lounged around the house around 3pm, my phone rang….IT WAS HIM…..we were ‘scheduled for a 7p dinner…..He said he would like to get together earlier, before dinner…..THAT FREAKED ME OUT…..I told him I had some apts with a client and I could meet him at 530. I needed time to fix my new hair….which btw…..WAS NOT AS BOUNCY AT ALL AS YESTERDAY….note to self…get hair done DAY of date!
So we met at the beach and had a glass of wine….for 3 hours….conversation flowed and flowed……He’s cool.
I kept my sunglasses on most of the time so I could check out his eyes…..
Only saw depth, not hollow!
He’s very handsome…….
Then we carried on to dinner, laughs and more good conversation…..
We flirted and we laughed…it was all very lite….He was very gracious to the waitress also…..not rude at any point.
I was very aware of myself, and my reactions to triggers in mE……like my own way of fantasizing and making little signs ‘more’ than they are…….
I know how to be a wife and nestled…..I am a virgin dater….HOW DO WE DATE? I have never dated……
It’ was ONE date……have fun and dont think too hard about it.
He’s leaving town in am,,,,,and said he would give me a call from where he is going…..and he owuld be back in town next week and let’s get together again.
Hugged me and the ‘ear’ hair air kiss…..
So….I had fun, I think he had fun… let’s see just how genuine he is and if I hear from him…..
He was good company and I hope we can reconnnect next week…..until then…..gotta get that bouncy hair back!
Thanks for the support gang….it’s exciting for me…..a schoolgirl once again….at least for now!
Going off to sweet dreams tonight!


OMG! Tears streaming down my face…overwhelmed! THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU!! WORDS CAN”T EXPRESS HOW I FEEL RIGHT NOW!! OMG! THIS IS REAL!! Its not cyberspace after all! All of you are my real friends that God has sent me and i just can’t believe how lucky and blessed i am!! THANKYOU SO SO MUCH!!
I will copy every single heartfelt comment and hide it in my art book and read it over and over while they spit their venom and they won’t be able to touch me because I will have the sheild of all of your love.
Thankyou Donna for this site! OMG! Thankyou for my hugs and sheilds and lavender oil and bouncy hair and drysockets and skillets and OMG!. I love you all so much. I would be in prison if it were not for you all (because i would have gone and killed the ex p!! I was so close until I came back here today..I was so triggered by the sociopath teacher and her fan club.
Thankyou guys, I have never had so much lovin in my life. I feel like it must be my birthday and my real family and friends have turned up for the first time. I am so grateful!xoxoxoxoxo((((LOVEFRAUD FRIENDS))))xoxoxoxoThankyou!!!
Two and a half months and it will be a year no contact and my uni will be nearly finished!! TOWANDA!!
Rosa: “Those who cannot DO, teach. ” I would love to say this to her Rosa, but I am a bit worried to drop the bomb in case i have her next year (my last year). Although truth is, I couldn’t do this with her for another year and I will definitely transfer if she is the teacher.
ErinB and Oxy:
How come your guys have both left town?? lol!


Wipe those tears and go kick some ass and paint away girlfriend……

BTW…..with great thought given….he DID say PRIOR to our date he was leaving the next morning…..
AND he travels for work weekly, 4 days out of the week……Which thrilled me at the thought of NOT having someone smothering me……
But come to think of it…..
OMG…..I bet he has a family in each port huh! Girlfriends everywhere……each state…..
MAYBE HE IS OXY’S MAN? Although he never mentioned being in Georgia and family in ARK. and the chicks with trucks ideal….. OMG…..I think he’s lying now…..Okay.. will spend the weekend doing an ‘eb’ investigation on him, maybe fly to where he is and see for myself……and if I ever hear back from him…..I will drop the bomb!!!! He better WATCH OUT……I am heading for that rock in the sunshine on the trail of life…..nestled to strike if needed! 🙂
Oh, he has no idea WHO he is betraying….he better watch his step! ALL men are dogs!
I think I have control now…..forgive me! You opened up a can of worms Tills…… 🙂 JK!!

In reality, I will enjoy my weekend….If he calls, he calls, if he doesn’t …..well lesson learned. I continue on…..
I learn so much about myself during every experience…..because I have awareness now. SOmething I kept in a closet my whole life……It takes a contious effort to keep it with me, out and thinking about things….and HOW I respond….
Life is a personal growth journey.

Tilly….keep the love with you in your heart… will be okay!


i avoided reading this, but did. crying, crying. i know i’m a long way from ever trusting a man again. still. after one year. the first time i get the ‘i’m late’ i know i’ll lose it. S/P/N used to call to tell me he’d be half an hour late, and i’d still be waiting for him to show up 2 hours later, no answer on his cell, no explanation other than ‘i got caught up’, when he arrived. there is no way i can even put myself in a position to go through that again. i guess i’m only healed on the very surface so far. this article made me realize that what i thought was me being ‘really good’ is only skin deep. underneath it all, i can cry at the drop of a hat remembering the walking on egg shells, the uncertainty, truth or lie, my fault or his. yup, i’m still twisted inside.



Definitely do NOT drop any bombs. Just get through the next 7 weeks, and get your education. That is the prize we have our eyes on.
I just said that because I was trying to cheer you up. And, once again, your ugly P-teacher and her little comrades revealed their intense jealousy of your talent.
Jealousy is so ugly.

I would never make a crack like that to a P-teacher, either. I would just get away the first chance I could.

Have a GREAT DAY, Tilly! You deserve it.


Erin B
Sounds like you had a fun time on your date….That is good news! Just sit back and enjoy the experience….Dating….
Either way, if he calls or if he doesn’t.

Honestly, I think as little girls we were all given a load of crap. Waiting for our prince charming to wisk us away.
I met and married my “soul mate”. My second time around….My charming PRINCE. Everything was intense right from the start. I fell in love fast and hard….When you love so intensely, everything is intense. The good times and the BAD.

If I ever get another shot at falling in love I would want it to be a SLOW moving relationship. BEST FRIENDS first and then maybe something from there could evolve into something more. I never want to be “wisked” away again….That kind of romance only works in the movies!
Sigh. (I really must be getting old)


Erin, So happy you had a good time.

We have to resign ourselves to just appreciating the pleasure of getting out and socializing without wondering if 2 years from now we will be married to a P and running out the door.
Ack! I just visualized that and gave myself a spike.
I think I’ve been drinking too much coffee lately…anyway, this is part of your adventure, your life, the transformation on your journey. Embrace it.


Funny this should be posted when it was – I am lonely and longing and yet absolutely clear I need to focus on continuing to heal me and get my life back to fully functional and myself back to happy and free on a daily basis. I can see it is not too far away – and I know eventually I will be “out there” and sending out the available vibe but I am absolutely terrorized by the thought and feel so damn vulnerable.

I wonder if I know how to go out and just have fun – to hold back and observe – to as i posted to Mandy – not be so darn grateful for the attention that like a dry desert I soak it up not realizing it precedes a monsoon.

Ho hum. I feel like I am learning to ride a bike at 44 and i do not relish the scraped knees.



The truth is you are not needy at all! All the Love you need is inside you allready ! no one thing or person makes us happy it is us who decides to be happy for what we have and the blessings we posses already! our ability to love , to care , to think about someone besides our self!



– the longing for a companion and partner is normal and natural – and some desire it more than others. My ex husband for one is happier living alone than in a partnership – and so he admits my divorcing him benefited him the most – more than me or our children – but we co-parent well and it is was the best choice for ALL of us. He is now working on the issues that made him an irritable, angry, verbally abusive and extremely passive aggressive – so that he can be a better parent to our children – and it was my leaving but holding him accountable for his behaviour with our kids that made that possible.

My next relationship was with a Malignant N….
He actually healed a lot of the damage from my marriage if you can believe it – it is true for me. And even though I am destroyed coming out of the relationship I find that my ex-h was far more damaging in his passive aggressiveness and that he made me want to kill myself – leaving the N was like dying in a different way – but I believe that is because my parents are N’s so a lot of childhood trauma and issues have been ripped open and the wounds are healing from childhood-

nonetheless – I am alone. Yes I have good friends. Yes I have two beautiful children. I have a relationship with God.

None of those things warm me at night or keep me company when the kids are finally down. And when they are with their Dad – there is no one to go do something with spur of the moment or just hang with – most of my friends are married or in a relationship and so otherwise occupied. I do not get invited to their dinner parties as I am solo…
I have no family closer than a 7 hour airplane trip.

I want a lover, best male friend, fellow adventurer to share the rest of my journey. I do not think the longing for that is a sign of neediness or other ill mental health. And no amount of love inside of me can fulfill that longing. I may have to accept that it is not to be for me but to say that what I have inside soothes that need is inaccurate at best.

Ox Drover

Dear heartMoonStar,

ASPD= antisocial personality disorder
BPD= Borderline Personality disorder
PPD= psychopathic personality disorder
SPD-sociopathic personallity disorder
ASPD more or less= PPD and SPD
TOWANDA is from the movie Friend green tomatoes and is like “Hooray for us”
N or NPD = narcissistic personality disorder

BIL=Brother in law (MIL= mother) DIL =daughter in law etc.

BF= Boy friend
BTW= By the way,
WTF= what the F?
DUH! or? is just like HUH?
LOL= laugh out loud
ROTFLMAO is roll on the floor laughing my arse off
OMG= Oh, my gosh!

I can’t think of any others that we use here much if you have questions, just ask! glad you are here. (((hugs)))

Ox Drover

Dear EB,

Glad your date went all right and you had a good time. At least someone asked us out. It has been a long time since that happened to me—at least “anyone I would have gone to a dog fight with, even if THEY were fighting.” LOL BTW a “dog fight” here means one that happens in the street because two dogs pass each other, not a pit bull dog fight—my area is so dull that a local dog fight is about the amount of excitement we can expect in a week’s time and the local newspaper (weekly) reports on it! ha ha

Well let us know if you get another call! It is a red letter day when I get an invite, i am actually thinking of calling the newspaper and seeing if they want to print an article about me getting a date? I haven’t heard about anyone’s dogs getting into a squabble lately so maybe news is slow! LOL


I ROTFLMAO when i read your post! Thankyou! I did think though, that Oxy and you might have had the same guy lol!! I so identified with your train of thought, especially, “he has no idea who he is betraying”, which is often like a neon sign crossing through my mind when I get a whiff of betrayal! lol!
I usually believe that their is no-one “in charge” of thos old world because God has given us free will. But then, when i hear that out of all of us it s You and Oxy who got the dates I KNOW GOD IS IN CHARGE!! For no other GIRLS here deserve a bit of lovin more than you two! (and certainly no-one else seems up to it either!). So god does have a way of showing me the things that are going to happen when i get well enough. Thankyou so much ErinB. i loved our cuppa and your Bouncy Hair and you dancin around the room! xoxoxooxxo


Hi gorgeous! lucky you spelled that out as I was already rehearsing my lines about teaching. And I had decided that next time she said to me, “what time are you coming back to class Tilly? ” my answer was “How ’bout NEVER? Is NEVER good for you? (with a cheery smile!)
In the Last class the p freak student said to me “you owe me an apology!”,( And Rosa, I honestly have NO IDEA what for!) and I calmly said to her, ” Oh you will never get an apology from me because I havn’t done anything wrong”. Then I walked off. PROGRESS!! Because Rosa…
6 months ago I would have entered an hysterical diatribe of the whys and hows and whose of “why I didn’t owe you an apology dear.” Then afterwards i would have felt guilty for yelling and apologised! So Go LF!!
I am using your quote in class this week , but I will say it in reference to art so that i can’t be attacked, ( i.e. “jealousy is so ugly”), I love this one because your right, they are sojealous because they can’t actually get to me right now. (Well, they don’t know that they did anyway!).
In my last class i painted a woman nude (me) setting fire to a goodlooking psychopath man, (my ex) but i gave him salt and pepper hair because I promised Erin B that I would put a bit of her ex in there too! I called it “Dancing with the Devil”. Of course no-one has a clue what it is about. The woman (me) has a grand old victorious smile on her face and her hans on her hips and the devil (my exP) is totally on fire with his back to her doing the “sociopath on fire dance”.
I knew you would love it! Its a gigantic oil on canvas. I reckon this one can go in your book of quotes Rosa! xo


I am busting to find out if your new beau is gonna call! (What is it with me?? ) Its like its more important to ME than to you!! I guess its because I honestly have no faith in men and also because I know that you really DON”T CARE (and i want to get to that point). Or do you?
Anyway, you never told us if you got a kiss or not! Secretive Oxy! lol! ErinB got one!
But really Oxy, thankyou so much for your kindness and endless patience. You have helped me more than words could ever tell and i am so so grateful!
“ASPD more or less= PPD and SPD”
I don’t know what this one means Oxy..can you explain please?
Also when i read “DUH” I always asume its a Homer Simpswon “DUH”.
Did you know that they tried to make Duff Beer over here when Homer first came out and there was a big kuffuffle over it?


I am definitely flying down for that lavender oil head rub as soon as I am allowed to! xoxoxoxoxo((Gem))xoooooooooo


You are my muse for my next painting:
“She hates you because that is all she has inside of herself. she is like the “whitewashed tombs” that Jesus spoke of, FILLED WITH ROTTING CORPSES”
This is my next painting Oxy…thankyou!!xoxo


And I have sketched my “solicitor ex p ” tearing the wings off butterflies to put up in his office..thought you would like that one blueskies!xoxo


Dearest Tilly,
I shall search the skies for a beautiful Tilly butterfly,with lavender wings,coming to land on a flower in my garden!
Seriously. you are welcome to a lavender oil, head massage any time!! Love and Huge Hugs, gem.XX

Ox Drover

ASPD=Antisocial personality disorder is more or less the same as Psycopath or sociopath, maybe nto identical but CLOSE enough “for government work.”

Tilly, you make me want to go out to the studio and get my canvases out and start painting. I got some really cool canvases at the last auction, I could tell from the subject matter and the way they were painted that they were from some art class, but I will gesso over them and use the canvases, I got them for like $2 each and they are really good canvases stretched nicely. I haven’t painted in years but I have my studio set up now, and a great place to paint but the weather has been so dog-gone hot and humid and studio is not AC’d so with “fall” weather getting here early this year I may just have to go paint. We’ve had the coolest august on record ever and the wettest!

I’m glad I inspired you—don’t let them drive you out! You don’t have long to go and you can make it. Heck, if I could keep my mouth shut long enough to get through school, so can YOU! We are both a couple of “mouthy old broads”but we can do what we have to do!

I did tell you, BTW that he did NOT kiss me, I got the hug and the “air kiss” but that’s okay! Actually, I think he is a gentleman, and that’s nice cause most of the creeps now it isn’t do you kiss on the first date, it is do you sleep with them on the first date! Not me! LOL

Oh, I forgot to tell you guys, on Monday evening my husband’s grandson and his wife, 2 kiddies, MIL and sister are coming through on their way to move to another state and stopping over for 36 hours, leaving out Wednesday morning, so will have a housefull of company and can’t wait! Haven’t seen the youngest baby yet (just turned 1) so am excited!

Cops are out in force already now for the Labor Day Weekend, so we will hang around the house and farm and stay off the roads. I’ll get the skillets out and get all the cooking done before they get here Monday. this is even more exciting than a date! Love, Oxy

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