By | November 26, 2009 103 Comments

After the sociopath is gone: Your best life yet!

There was a time when all I felt grateful for was the absence of his voice, for just an hour or two from the phone.

There was a time when what I was most grateful for was knowing he was somewhere else, somewhere where I wasn’t.

There was a time when I was grateful not to think of him, for just a moment, or an hour, maybe even, if I was really strong, for half a day.

There was a time.

And now, the times have changed. The times have shifted, the sands have fallen differently, ever changing, in the hour glass of the passing of the time when he was all I thought of, all I saw, all I believed I would ever live with in my life.

The times they have changed.

Today I gave a presentation to a group of about 50 people on how to make a difference — in your life, in the life of your community, in this city, in the world. My presentation as on behalf of The United Way, an agency that helped me get counselling when I first was released from the hell of that relationship that almost killed me.

I am grateful, I told the audience, for the support of The United Way because, they, along with my friends and family who stood by me, gave me the tools and the help I needed to start rebuilding my life. To start reclaiming all that was lost and so much more.

That’s the thing about a relationship with a psychopath/sociopath. The relationship leaves you drained — of all resources, of all energy, of all sense of self. We survived their passing through our lives and in the end, we wonder, will we ever breathe freely again? Will we ever feel like ourselves again? Will we ever trust, love, give our hearts again?

Recently, I was teaching a self-esteem course at the homeless shelter where I work. I asked the students, what are you grateful for? One man, about thirty years old, answered. I’m grateful for going to jail. It’s the best thing that ever happened to me. Because of being imprisoned, I got sober. And that’s how I want to live the rest of my life.

The conman experience was one of the best things that ever happened in my life. Sure, going through that journey was hell. I despaired that I would survive. I’m lucky I did. But, in having come out of the other side, I know, without a doubt, that that encounter freed me from my self-limiting beliefs that were keeping me from living the life of my dreams. That relationship forced me to look at myself and claim — I deserve all the world has to offer. I deserve to be free.

These relationships are hell. They test us. Try us. Destroy our belief in ourselves. Destroy our faith in humanity. And in the end, they leave us looking for a miracle, trying to find ourselves beneath the painful memories that keep us stuck in believing, we will never be free.

It’s all in our perspective.

We can look at their passing through our lives as the worst thing that ever happened to us — or we can look at their passing through our lives as the most astonishing thing that ever happened to us. We can find the value in their passing through or we can stay stuck in believing they were all we are worth. We can dig into the dirt of the turmoil, the angst, and the pain they dumped upon us and wallow in its weight, or we can dig out from beneath the dirt and claim our right to stand, fully illuminated in the sun of our new day dawning upon the truth of who we are when we choose to live up to our highest good, freed from the belief we are not good enough, not well enough, not enough.

We are enough. Just the way we are. We give enough. Do enough. Are enough.

Coming through the hell of that relationship I have had enough of living small, of living under the lies of someone else’s disorderly conduct. I have had enough of being who someone else tells me I must be. I have had enough.

Freed from believing someone else had the right to determine my worth, I claim my right to live up to my true value. I claim my right to determine my worth by every word, every deed, every action I take today.

I am not the woman who was abused.

I am a woman who has claimed her right to live freely in the rapture of now. I am a woman who claims her right to be all she is meant to be when she ‘turns up, pays attention, speaks her truth and stays unattached to the outcome.’ I am a Woman of Worth. A real WoW!

You are too.

If you feel less than, other than, bothered by or determined by his insistence that your only value is based upon what you give him or bring to him or what he gives you or says you are, shake yourself free. Give yourself the gift of knowing — he is just a conman, or conwoman. Their only purpose in life is to live off the well-meaning intentions of those around them. Their only purpose is to find their value in the devastation they cause in the world around them.

You are better than that. More than he could ever imagine.

Shake yourself free of believing he was the ‘worst’ thing that ever happened to you and embrace the reality of his passing through your life — you are free. In freedom, you can make choices that support you, nurture you and celebrate your magnificence.

Don’t let one man take the present of you and turn it into a burden for years to come.

Give yourself the gift of freedom. Acknowledge the gift of wisdom that comes with having lived through the experience of a conman in your life. Gift yourself the knowing — you are more than he could ever have imagined. You are more than you ever dreamed of. You are free to be your most amazing self because he is gone and you have nothing more to hold onto. The beauty of holding onto nothing is — you have nothing to lose. And with nothing to lose you are free to be your most incredible, amazing, magnificent self. Holding onto nothing, no one can take your most amazing self away from you.

Live it up. Live it free. Shift your anger and regret to gratitude and Live your best life yet!

I am!

Happy Thanksgiving everyone. May your life be filled with abundance, love and joy.

Comment on this article

Please Login to comment
Notify of
Ox Drover

Louise, you are definitely WOW! Thank you for another inspiring article! I’m so grateful that I have had the opportunity to read your articles! They always inspire me to be the best that I can be!

Thank you again! What a wonderful way to spend this day of THANKSGIVING, being grateful for all you have experienced, all that you are! (((hugs)))) and God bless!

Ox Drover

My dream for some months now has been to have a LoveFraud gathering where we can all have a huge group hug and some uplifting programs.

I see the difficulties in such a gathering though, as so many victims are financially tapped out by their experiences and it would be next to impossible for them to attend for that reason alone, with the travel and other expenses. So for the time being I know that our “gatherings” and sharings are limited to cyberspace, but though it may not be ideal in “cyberspace” at least there is more connection than the usual “cyberspace” group. There is connection of souls here, of gentuine caring, genuine sharing, and a fertile soil for growth.

As Jesus pointed out in His parable of the “sower,” the “seed” (knowledge) for growth is sown, and some of it falls on poor soil and never sprouts, or is “eaten by the birds,” or spouts up quickly, but soon dies for lack of nourishment, but some of it does GROW and flourish and produce a bountiful harvest of goodness which in its own turn, spreads more seed for more growth.

I see LoveFraud and the people here as “gardeners” cultivating that seed and the harvest of love, growth, and ultimately peace and joy is blooming here. I am so grateful that Donna has supplied such a wonderful place for the seeds of peace to be sown, for the individuals who find their way to this place can grown, and in turn contribute to more seeds being sewn in other places. Thank you for your unending contributions to the nourishment of the crops producing peace and joy, and by your wonderful living example for us all. (((hugs)))) and God bless you!


I hope some day I can say that growing up in an abusive family is the greatest thing that ever happened to me. All I feel right now is a lot of anger. And I’m grateful to at least feel the anger for a change. I still don’t understand what meaning this could have in a middle-aged person’s life–to realize you cannot fully thrive because you are still in survival mode. But one thing I know is that when I feel better, I will live my life and not look back. I may write a book about my experiences.


Your words always speak to me. Today, I’m am grateful that he is gone, but I am still so hurt and angry for what he did to me. Last night was a rough night for me. My sister and her fiance are in town and he is a muscian, and they went out last night after dinner for the show he was performing. I just felt so left out, because I knew my ex was going to be there, because he’s also a muscian. I knew I couldn’t go because it was a given that my ex was going to be there, and it just sucks that he gets to continue living the life that we once enjoyed together, and I sat at home. Being alone on Thanksgiving, it’s hard not to feel sorry for yourself or be upset. My world has done a 180 since we’ve not been together, so I’m still in this transititon phase and it SUCKS!! For the last 4 years, it had been our tradition to have dinner on Thanksgiving and then go out and celebrate with our friends, and this is one more thing that he’s taken away from me. I know I shouldn’t worry about what he’s doing, or who he’s with now, but it’s hard because I feel like he’s moved on so easily and I’m still trying to pick up the pieces. So I’m am thankful that I have a great family and friends, but I’m still so sad. And in a few days, Dec. 1st, is the anniversary of the abortion he made me get, so I wouldn’t ruin HIS life because how would he explain that to his wife and kids?? Just one more scar that he’s left me with that I have to deal with for the rest of my life. So this time of year isn’t so easy for me. Right now I just feel numb. But your words inspire me. I want to be in that place where I can look at this and find positive in it, but right now, this week, I’m really struggling.


I came to this site in hope that I might find an answer to what I am going through. I see that many people have faced similar scenarios in their lives and I would like to share my story and see what people think.

Well, I have known this guy for about six years now. I met him at school when I was just beginning college. He was asking about marriage but in the beginning I said to him that I wanted to wait to get married because I thought it was important to finish up school first. I thought that at least if anything happens in the future (divorce etc.) I could at least have something to fall back on and earn a living. I thought that he was fine with this. He never came empty handed. When we went out together he would pay for our meals and he always had a small gift (i.e. flowers, chocolate ) I am a very religious girl and I do not know how I let this happen to me but I will have to admit because I do not want to leave any details out of this story I am a very religious girl believing that you should wait until marriage before becoming involved sexually. I do not know it just felt natural and I allowed myself to become involved that way with him. Not all the way however.

Well, anyhow, about a year into the relationship I started asking when he would come to meet my parents. I was ready to get this in the open. And, he said to me “you cannot do everything.
you will not be able to manage all of the bills.” So, I said “I understand but I will be becoming a nurse and whatever you make we can put two and two together and I think we could make it.” He responded, “you have never had a real job before, you do not know what it is like out there. you cannot manage on your salary alone.” So, I said ok.

This is when he brought in the fact that he had run into financial problems. And, at this time I really had no money to help him. But, he said to me look if you cannot help me it is ok”I just will have to move back to my country and see what I can do. And, I said if you go back then I will never be able to see you again. He said well what else can I do. So, I took out a small loan to help him. Being in love with him I helped him out. I did not want to lose him.

As more time is going on”I am near now to finish school. He mentions that there is a business opportunity that he sees he stands a chance at. So, I said go for it if you believe its a possibility. Well, he asks me to help to pay for the security deposit on an apartment. The apartment was to be close to a mall where the business was to be set up. And too, I helped him with what he said would be for the application fees of setting up the business. Anyhow, he told me “thank you so much for your patience with me”.all your help”I am sending all the documents the business is asking for etc etc.” As time goes by I said so how is the business going. And he said to me—It was more work than I thought it would be so I could not go through with it. Living four hours away the setting up of it was too much.”

So, anyhow I said ok. Things happen. We continue to spend time together. And then, he said to me look regardless of what happened I am willing to move down here by you and work two or three jobs if I have to to make this work. He said I would listen to you if you have any suggestions. I said what about school”the medical field is a good field to get into because you are guaranteed to always have a job. And he said, yeah but that would be like starting all over. I do not have the sciences for it. So, I said well what do you want to do.

He said he had become aware of another business opportunity that he really wanted to pursue. And, when he gets it set up he would be able to go to school at the same time by doing online classes. So, I said go for it. I really helped him a llllooot getting this business started because he showed me the documents involved and because he sounded like he knew a lot about business. He told me about how he used to work for a restaurant and he was in charge of running it etc. He would correct other employees telling them how things should be done the right way. So, I ended up investing a lot into getting him started.

As time is going by he said to me he wanted to get back into school. So, I invested in a semester of school for him. When I would ask about how school was going he told me “school sucks” So, I said “well, how is it going are you at least passing” He said, its just difficult being by himself and having to work and the travel back and forth from where he lives and here.” He said to me after the term ended that he just could not continue with that right now.

He asked me if I remembered about the business he was trying to set up. I said,”yeah ofcourse.” He said well, I am still trying to work on that. And, he asked me for more assistance. So, I helped him some more.

Well, then comes August of this year. I went out with him. We ate together. Then we went walking in the mall. And, I wasnt seeing him mentioning anything about where we were headed as a couple or when he would come to meet my parents. So, I said,” soo whats your plans” Because for months I had been asking him the same thing and he would say to me “dont worry i have plans ; ). He responded at the mall” do not worry you have surprises coming soon.” So, in my mind I said finally ! Well, we are walking in the mall and hes walking over to things and saying “doesnt that look like a nice family gift.” And, I said, “I wouldnt tell you what to bring over when you come.” I felt awkward to ask anyone for a gift.

Well, that day ended. And, I thought ok soon somethings going to happen. He is coming soon to propose.

Well, then I went a period of 3 months exactly without hearing from him at all. And, during that time i was worried sick thinking omg what if hes sick or something happened to him. I called him maybe ten times a day. I even asked his friends online if theyve heard from him. And, the first time i asked they said all they know is that he loves me. To which I said, “how do you know that” And they said he used to talk about you a lot.” Apparently these were his roommates from the beginning of the relationship but he had moved out. They were the only people i knew that knew him.

Well”..finally I get a call from him. He apologized for not being able to get in contact saying its because he was going through family issues. He brought his mom all the way here to meet my family. And, in the flight she got sick ending up in the hospital. So, I said oh no, “can i come down and see her” Then I thought you know what maybe i shouldnt because if I get into an accident on the way there or lost or whatever. So, I said, when shes stable why dont you come down. Its been a while since I have seen you.

Well, when he comes down”I felt like it had been forever. I was so happy to see him and at the same time so anxious to know what our plans were. So, I said sooo when you going to come meet my parents they have been begging me to invite you over. And, his face went blank. He said,” you always bring this up. we have gone over this a million times. i do not even feel like eating right now. i want to go home.” So, I said forget i mentioned it”let us go inside and get something to eat.

While we are eating I said to him “hows your mom” He said she was doing better. And then I said well how does she feel about us. He said well”shes a little skeptical becuase you are of a different race than me. So, that stuck me through the heart. And I said”so how do you feel though. And, he said his feelings had not changed so I felt a little better. I even mentioned you know if you asked me to marry you tomorrow I would put my masters aside bc thats not important to me as getting married and starting my life. And he responded ,”well thats not how it was when you wanted to do your bachelors.” Well, it was time to go. And, he said if i could stay longer and I said no i have to get back home buuuuut if you would like to come home wiht me my parents would be excited to meet you and you could stay whole evenign with us and then go home.

He said , “are you serious ?!” I said, yes. He said “well, i would love to but this is not the right time. i am not even dressed.”

So I said ok. And he then asked me to see me the following day. I said I couldnt buut I could see him the day after that. So, he stayed here in a hotel until i could see him. And, I did.

Well, on that day upon arriving to see him he looked verrrry down and he was looking at his phone. I approached him and said whats wrong ? He said his mom was calling him on the phone asking him where he had been. And because she was sick he felt bad for not going back and making sure shes ok rather than overnighting. So, I said “oh, but do you have to go back right away” He said, no.

Then he said,” you know ”the only way i see out of this is to move permanently by you interact wiht family more so that they know me for who i am and then ask for your hand. I am too far away and because they knew already of some of the money that you had lent me i already look bad. So, I said that would be great. I could see you more often. He said , “well would you be willing to help me. I said , “how much he would need.” He told me a large sum. So , I said wow in my mind. And, I said, well you know i work hard for my money. I definitely could not give that to you at one time. Little by little maybe. He said to me think about it.

Well, anyhow”.we spend day together. I just could think to ask about things. And, he said i was making my time with him depressing. All I am doing is worrying now when he comes to see me. As the day was ending he was like…is it in ur personality to be a it ur subconscious coming out..are you being coached to ask all of these questions

Anyhow, parents got involved and asked me to put him on phone the following day after seeing him. They talked to him nicely and said”you know our daughter loves you very much talks about you all the time”when would you be interested in coming to meet us. And, he said he was going through a lot right now and did not know when. So, then they asked for a rough time frame. Anyhow, he said he is not sure exactly.

I felt bad i put him on the spot. He said to me “you deceived me you tricked me. now i do not even know who is calling me, . on and on i couldnt get to talk to him..finally he said call.

So, I said I am very sorry they just wanted to talk to you to invite you over nothing more. And he said next time i lie to him that i should not even think to talk to him anymore. Well, then he said you know if i considered helping him. He thought that that was our plan. I said, I will see what I can do. I began to help him.

He said to me, “if you cannot get it to me all in cash if i had anything valuable then anything woudl help.” “those things can always be replaced. Well, I gave him some of my jewelry. (when i had seen him before those three months he had looked really happy really good and this time he looked like really depressed and stressed) After I gave that then I thought back you know this is really too much from me.

My parents actually got involved and said you know what you should not give him any more help. They didnt know of the recent money he asked for. And i said you know what “I cannot help you anymore. If my parents knew about this this would really make you look bad in front of their eyes” he responded, ” you never listen to what i tell always do what your parents say. you are an adult you do not have to do what they tell you to do.”

All in the middle of this another guy had shown interest. Which I told him about to make it be known to him its all more a reason that he needs to come and meet them. I said I do not have any interests in this other guy. He is the only one i have loved and will only love. And he responded..”i know what youre going to do you will end up marrying that other guy just bc your parents told you to. ” “they do not respect your choice you have made. and the reason they put me on the phone was to judge me within just five minutes that I was no good for you so that you would marry the other guy”

I said this is not true i love you and only you. He said, “its not about that. at this point we both understand that. its about getting there.”

well, then after all of this i am on the phone one day wiht a friend and i get a text “how are you” i couldnt respond right away. in the middle of the call i got about twelve texts, “100, 90,”..etc. like a countdown.” and after the call i said, “i’m ok” even though i was feeling very down. and he said,”is that all i get after worrying about you you respond after an hour and i said i answered you as soon as i could i was on the phone.

the next day he said, “how are you in a text.” and i said im doing alright how are you and he said feeling he was alright. i called him because i wanted to actually talk to him not just text. And we talked normal. well, i was at work and i said you know i gotta go. And, when i am back to work he called me about six times. and i couldnt answer. so, when i got chance to call back, 15 minutes later he wouldnt answer. and i said in a text, i am trying to call you back. and he said, oh excuse, me you did the same thing. so, i said, i’m sorry i had to get back to work.
tried to call him anytime throughout work that i could but he wouldnt answer.

well, anyhow my parents left him a message only saying that he took a lot of advantage on me and if he was man enough he would call back and apologize nothing more and he texted me back saying, “that they left him so many insults..and that the accusations are unfair and offensive.”

And so i responded feeling bad”i said they just never got to know you”.and he said then its not fair to judge someone without knowing them first. “he just feels very hurt from the messages and is feeling sad. And said to me..look if other guys would have even gone as far as trying to take advantage of you and i do not know bc i havent been with enough guys to know…but he never did bc he respected himself always when he didnt..that he said showed me that he deeply cared for me…and pointed out the fact that for the longest time i didnt even want to get too close to him in public and he felt like i was embarassed to be around him..but i explained to him i was never embarassed of him its just bc i didnt want anyone to scandal my name since i was not yet engaged to him or married

Ox Drover

Dear Jessica,

This man is a con man, he is using you. I think you posted her once before this story, and it is so similar to so many of us, they tell us they love you, but it is all a lie, just for sex or money or both. I am sorry that this man tricked you, but in the end, it can be a good thing, because you can learn from this and protect yourself from liars in the future.

I suggest that you stay here and read and learn. because the more we know the more power we have to protect ourselves.

God bless you, read and learn. Knowledge is power, and you can take back your power of your heart from this man.


What a wonderful article! It puts into words all that can be, and is, ours. Thank you so much for this. We are ENTITLED to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It is our right. Anyone who has spent any time with a P/N/A knows the first belief they steal from us is that very one. The minute I started seeing through the haze of his lies and illusions, I came to understand that he was just a game and that was all he knew how to play. He neither cared nor even understood the depths of life and the happiness that comes with just being ourselves, who and what we are at this very moment.
amber, the reason they are able to pick up the pieces, at least in what I’ve observed, is because it’s this very depth of emotion that they lack. All of those people will see his reality at some point and even if they don’t, you at least have your freedom back to FEEL like you do without anyone criticizing it. I can certainly relate to what you feel. Yesterday, my Path was actually at dinner because a large part of my family has been played by him. I handled this by staying in another room (there were over 30 people there) and sitting with those I know and trust. I only went so my 10 yrs. old son could be with family on a holiday. I had dreaded this day, but I did learn something. I could hear his voice and his BS and it didn’t affect me as it once had. I had a chance to practice indifference, so all in all, it turned out to be an OK experience for me. It’s NOT fair that they get away with this,but I DO believe their days will come and even it I don’t see it, I know it will happen. My wish is that I’m so far beyond this, I won’t care a but, WE ultimately win; our freedom, our serenity and peace of mind, our right to just be.
I still deal with those “times” that Louise so wonderfully described, but today is SO much better. Freedom begins within ones’ own heart, soul and mind.
Hope everyone had a great holiday!
Hugs, Cat


Dear Jessica,
I read your story before and Ox is right. This person is just another con artist. Just look at how he twisted the story about your parents disliking him, yet he set it up for that very thing to happen so that he could look like the victim. This is one of the things they do best; wreak havoc, mess with others’ heads and hearts and then turn it all around. I can’t tell you how much LF has helped me in such a short amount of time. I read and read on here and it’s such a gift to know I’m not alone. I know this site was started because someone was so horribly used by one of these A/P/N’s but I thank her as well for turning tragedy into a healing tool for all of us.
Bless you, Cat


Thank you very much for your advise Cat and OxDrover. Your words are comforting to me especially since this story happened so recently. It was a blessing that I came across this site where I could actually get to talk to people who endured the same things in their life. I kept turning over and over in my head as I read first on here the characteristics of the conartist and thought omg ok all of these sound true…but then I began to think….oh no I couldnt have met someone like this ! Bc most recently this guy has said to me…why dont you tell your parents that you want to wait another six months more to get married which would give them time to calm down and him to approach them in a better mood..and hes been texting me happy holidays and hope you have a nice thanksgiving like all is well again


Don’t ever give a man money. Let him earn his own, get it from his family or something else.. As soon as you gave him money, you went down in his mind. You are on the right path.. earn your own living, get your education and forget about men for now.. this guy was playing you and if they won’t meet your parents.. dump them.. he didn’t want to meet them because he knew that they would see through him.
Men take care of women… and he has too many excuses and issues…

About the article.. I needed to read this…
I feel alone just now.. not that I miss him.. but just like on the edge and like I don’t really fit any where…

Ox Drover

Dear Style,

Dear, I hear your pain “like I don’t really fit any where.” Style, the thing is that no one can give us happiness, and no one who tries to whittle us down to fit into a “square” hole is good for us. We have to determine where WE are and then let THEM fit in or GET OUT. We make our own shape, our own happienss ALL BY OURSELVES, THEN and only THEN .do we look for a man that FITS IN TO US.

I think too many times we (people who have in the past been abused/used) try to make ourselves in the “image of” what the other people (person) wants us to be, not what we ARE.

No matter what we do to try to make ourselves fit in with THEM, we never will, we have to be uniquely OURSELVES, then find a mate, not look for a mate and then try to fit in with THEM.

YOU are WORTH more than 100 of him put together, and 1000 of the guy with the “leukemia” who then turns around and says YOU ARE NOT YOUNG ENOUGH TO DESERVE HIM! ROTFLMAO Heis NOT worth the goo under your little finger nail. And for someone to say something like that and blame YOU when he is as unappealing as dog crap, has his “nerve” for sure. He was simply BLAME PLACING! UGH! what a creep.


In 2008, women earned approximately 77 cents for every dollar a man earned. I got this statistic at

Ladies, please be careful about who you give your hard-earned money to.

Personally, I would have a hard time giving money to a man who is already earning 23% more on the dollar than I am, according to current statistics. Especially in this economy!!

If someone is cold, buy them a coat.
If someone is hungry, then buy them food.
But, I would never give someone cash.
You just never know what they are really using it for, unfortunately.


E mail rcvd earlier ….

Thank you for sending my clothes to M’s, as far as the bike and the
rest of my stuff please keep it with yours and i will try to get them
as soon as i get out. please tell D, i said i love him, and i am
sorry and happy holidays……

uugggghhhhhhh I am so angry at that email I could SCREAM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please keep it with yours …. I am not putting my stuff in storage… I have to sell or give away my things and I am expected to hold his stuff with mine like its going to storage its not going to fit in a studio jerk o–…… how can you email someone if your in “program” too bad there are no programs for people like you…… one’s where like the eskimos… when no one is looking they push you off the cliffs… too bad I did not know about the eskimos sooner when we were in new mexico it would have been the perfect place to just push you off the cliff….. no one would have ever found you… oh gosh now I sound just like one of them……..


I found this slide show helpful. It is about trauma, its effects and what is needed to overcome trauma.
Louise, thanks for the article. For the first time in a long time, I’m taking a break from working and have a couple of things I’m REALLY looking forward to this weekend!


How can others say they warned about the S, when the only thing they tell you is a vague comment such as … he will only be a part time presence in your life…. how does that turn into , we warned you to stay away from him???? that dose seem rather vague like …..or you knew the risks involved?
They are very good actors… I guess if we fall for it and take the risks??? it must have been my fault… not anymore I know now who he is and who he will continue to be….


Spirit, I heard the same and oh, how it changed in the end! They are GREAT actors. My shock is that his own mother was the one who told me this. She wouldn’t give him a dime if his life depended on it. MY family bails his butt of jail, though. Go figure. I think that it becomes stronger from those who warned us because they had time to watch them pull their stuff on us, thereby convincing others they really are that bad.
Oh the emails….they know just what to write and it can really stick with us. It’s not your job to take care of his stuff. It’s his.

Ox Drover

“he will only be a PART TIME PRESENCE IN YOUR LIFE” (quote) spirit

To me that says a GREAT DEAL about someone. It says they will NOT commit to an exclusive relationship with you or probably anyone else. so if you were looking for a committed relationship I would think you would see this as a pretty strong warning—-that said though, I have been warned much more strongly than that and STILL did not listen. I was told HE IS DISHONEST, HE WILL STAB YOU IN THE BACK and I did not listen and got into a business relationship with this person and guess what HE STOLE FROM US, HE STABBED US IN THE BACK, HE LIED AND HE CHEATED.

Most of the time by the time we are warned either openly or more “politely” we are so HOOKED we don’t believe anything.

It would be nice if we could pass the blame to our friends for not warning us, but unfortunately, it is SELDOM that a warning works. I know I would not listen so am not “throwing rocks” at you for not seeing the warning for what it was, I think, an attempt to warn you. That’s part of the psychopath’s talent is s/he can get us to ignore warnings.


Cat, OxY….

Yeah that “warning” from his family… who also wont admit he is a P, S, N… No he is an “alcoholic”…. I met this guy I was 17.. I came from an emotionally charged back ground… and got hooked… 10 years later, he sealed the deal I was pregnant. Of Course he demeaned , devalued and discarded me when I was pregnant, I was after all FAT now… oh and he came back when he needed more rescuing, my child was old enough then to admire his narc father…. etc etc. I am thinking of writing my own book because It is a true account of years of this abuse, which I never realized obviously a couple years back I learned the Narc term and that fit then I heard borderline and that fit , then I recalled his youth fire setting , animal abuse and then that fit anti social… well as I have said before each of us must find our own way in our own time at our own pace so I learned the lesson here and now. Now I am going to look forward to a bright future assuming that my wishes are going to be fufilled this time with wonderful people , my degree , and love in there somewhere…someone who truly deserves me… he wrote me a note once, I was young, ( I kept them all since we were 17 and then he went to jail kept those too) he said why do you love me so much when I have never done anything to deserve it … hind sight red flag but already “in love” with the potential……….

anyhow… I feel that his family is a source of this It is my beleive that you can also learn the behaviors from those around you… and that one or both of his parents are Narcisstic… just based on the way he treats me and they treat him and me… and my child, I am the one discarded they just want the fresh meat( my child) watch out mama bear has got some nasty claws……..

Ox Drover


I stored some stuff in an old buidling here on the edge of my farm for some people who are “users” and they had 24/7 access to their stuff. In march, part of the roof blew off and I notified them to get their stuff as it was getting rained on. they said “just put a piece of plastic over it” Well in April, I told them that I wanted it OUT by June 1 as I wanted to salvage some of the lumber etc out of the building and then doze it down, burn it and clean up the site. The last thing I heard from them in April was “WE WILL GET OUR STUFF OUT OF YOUR WAY BY JUNE 1.”

Well, it is the end of november and I HAVEN’T HEARD A WORD SINCE THEN. So, since this was abandoned stuff I took what I wanted of it and sold some of the rest, left the trash there.

I really didn’t expect to ever hear from these people again, I had started setting some boundaries for them about a year ago and had stopped contacting them after April.

So last night I get an e mail from the guy telling me that they hadn’t contacted me about the stuff in the old building because:

1) he had lost my phone number (but obviously he had my e mail address and could have contacted me during this 6 month period by that, my phone number is the same and only one digit different from my son’s phone number, and he knows that, so I sincerely doubt that is the reason he didnt’ contact me.
2) my son D had not returned any of his phone calls since January 15 this year. (well, yes, that is correct, because even though they had borrowed and not repaid money from my son a couple of years ago to buy a car, he had called D on January 15 WANTING MONEY and D had said NO!)
3) He says that he is “in a chair” (wheel chair) all the time now” This is a pity play as an excuse for why he made no effort to get his stuff moved for 6 months after assuring me he would, as I had arranged a man, trailer and truck (at his expense of course) to move the stuff for him and he had not taken advantage of that, because I think, as USUAL with him, he wanted my son to volunteer my truck trailer and his own labor to move this STUFF AGAIN! My son has moved pretty much this same pile of garbage that they have hoarded for years multiple times, lost count of how many times.
4) even though the guy had a key to the place and 24/7 access, he wants to arrange to meet me to “get his stuff”—WHY? The storage building is not behind a locked gate and they have made entry off and on since they put their stuff there without notifying us in any way. So why now to get access through US? Obviously there is some ulterior motive, I just don’t know what it is. And, don’t really care.

My son is out of state right now, but when he returns we will decide if we want to answer this e mail at all, and if we do, what we will say. My thought now is to ignore the e mail.

In the past they have ignored boundaries about coming here to my farm when i am not home, I caught the wife once time and boy was she embarassed and pithed off for sure. She was so tight jawed that it is a wonder she didn’t crack her teeth out of socket. Oh, wellllll…..that’s what happens when you try to be sneaky. she is also one to “pilfer” and to take things that belong to others…sometimes things of no real value, but she is OCD about hoarding stuff that would disgrace most land fills.

Both of them have self created financial problems from VERY poor spending habits and have worked themselves into a corner, and yet they have this feeling of entitlement that others are responsible for “helping” them because they are “poor.”

Not my problem, because their financial poverty is very self created by their sense of entitlement to others taking care of their needs. I’ve done my turn, my son has done his turn, and we are no longer available to meet their needs, or to feel sorry for their predictiment.

I suggest that whatever items of his that HE has decided to make YOU responsible for that you either put out for the trash man, or SELL and pocket the money. So what are you, the “Spirit Storrage FREE company?”

Ox Drover

Dear Spirit, we posted over each other.

Yea, lots of times peopple “excuse” the P behavior with “he’s an alcoholic/druggie/he had a hard childhood” etc. but the bottom line is THERE IS NO EXCUSE.

Genetics have been proven to play some part in it, as well as environment too, so there is both at work here, he “inherited’ the tendency for P and then had it reinforced by his poor up bringing BY a couple of Ps (one at least) in a dysfunctional home. So he got the double whammy.

All you can do from here on is to try to make your child’s life better and hope that the genetics are not too strong. It hurts like hell to lose one of them into that life style. I know, I lost one to his genetics which over powered the nurturing I tried to give him. My P-son is a monster, however, i do have one biological son who is a great guy, and an adopted son who is also a wonderful man. I think that God replaced the son I lost with one I love dearly and am proud to have in my life! So I am doubly blessed, though at times I felt like Job in the Bible, that I had lost everything.

Now I am recovering my joy! I’m glad you have such spirit so hang in there, do what you know is right and don’t let them give you a ration of crap or attack your baby! You go mama bear!


In his case he was adopted but I still think he learned it by being in dysfunctional home with maybe one Narc/P/ etc…plus yes with the genetic factor and no emotional bond/attachment at birth to anyone. The genetics as far as my child..I am comfortable saying that he is a mamas boy and alot like me a heart, moral reasoning… stands up for me when I am being taken advantage of … of course all kids lie but I can tell and he admits it and we talk about it the fear and dont ever be afraid to tell mom the truth about anything…

I think maybe that is the only part where I have been blessed in all this, and looking back I wanted no part of him or his dys func family but boy the plowed on through…. thinking maybe from the P that i was the “unstable” one not him…. yeah I did not come from the happiest of homes but yelling in my house was because we are loud hot tempered italians… no excuse but I am the only educated one in my family …it was my parents who told me find a man to take care of you, I was more independent but still naive and in love or so I thought , I always got sucked back in especially since he was “grooming me” oh we can have kids someday live on a little island…. was this my price charming or bull s—- frog …… .. oh they just want my son to have a brighter christmas… well I can provide that its pretty darn bright and sunny here in FLA ….

He used to tell me the lioness goes out to provide for the family that is his way of rationalizing taking advantage of me, he wanted to be waited on hand and foot….. oh and that he never has to pay rent ever and he is proud of this… oh and his wonderful genetics….

anyway I am glad to be rid of him , I may just change phone # or block his emails etc and yeah he owes me way to much, I can pawn his stuff, I never pawned anything in my life until I met him…..

Thank you oxy I always get such wonderful feedback and support from you!!! I send you hugs =)

I am going to work on my paper today and for the next 2 days its due on thursday!!! woo hoo


Oh I wont even get started on the “dog” poor dog… sometimes I think he needs doggy prozac… he is old…. but not mine mind you. HIS, MINE…not really mine but I will definately take care of him…he also is much less stressed …now we can all just “breath” !

Oxy.. you gave them a time limit, its past and gone.. just shows us we can not be so NICE…. sometimes… we end up with the short end of the stick…

oh well , my bf, is going through the same thing, I told her do not feel guilty selling it he left it , and you were paying all the bills?

are they really that entitled? come on… they do not care one bit about the stuff and he dosent care one ounce for his precious “dog” just another possession…..


Cat , Thanks for the post…=) I know its his way of keeping contact… his stuff! hold it with mine… LOL mine has to be sold so I can afford a place much smaller because he lived off me and I can not afford a two bedroom any longer we have to live like college students for a while my pre teen and I but I will be much happier with less anyway… its just stuff…. less to clean up ! my bright side!


okay, I’ve changed my nic from lostandfearful to one step at a time. more upbeat. and i have to remember to log in right away cause i keep losing my place.

@skylar – I just saw your post to me, on a page I can’t find now 😉
You ended it with ‘don’t worry’. TY for this. Cause I am crazy into worry.

There are serious problems beyond the spath. I still let her hijack my mind a part of each day. Today, as I was packing some stuff, it hit me as: ‘wow, someone did this to me ON PURPOSE.’

i am still in the process of deconstructing the lies of the spath – getting all the sock puppets, the mean fuckers and the sweet one i loved into one drawer. then i am going to light them on fire. no, just kidding, maybe I’ll kick them all behind the dryer where we know they will be LOST FOREVER.

there is a level of fright that rises when she has my head space. it’s pretty wild. I guess it will take a while to undo all this shit. and the fright informs all the other difficulty…making me less effective. I am a BIG problem solver. I am in a situation now though, where the problems feel TOO BIG to solve. part of this is that I have MCS and I am cognitively impaired by the chemicals in my environment.

there is one person behind all of this and that person is not someone I knew. I have seen her responses to others outing her. quite vitriolic, lots of gas-lighting and hardcore manipulation. when she thought i might out her one of her sock puppets got quite graphic. but you know i know where she is – and THESE people don’t exist. she’s not going to come after me. Have closed down my email and cell.

I still miss ‘him’. And as I try to deconstruct him, I realize that I can’t ‘kill’ him in my mind as he is part of me – he is the part of me that she mirrored back to me.

I do believe that she showed me what i really want in life. And I have very very little of it. I believed in the magic of it being possible with him. There were things missing and info not right, but i was willing to wait till we met (which was supposed to be early on, but… yadah yaddah yaddah…) to really be able to know who I was dealing with. Of course it never came to that and he died, and then the others died…blah blah blah….

sorry, ranted off on a side road there. I believe in magic. I WANT to believe in magic. made me a target. BUT one of the hardest things is that ‘he’ showed me what i really want- some things i had NO clear idea of, and I am left with the feeling that I WILL NEVER HAVE THOSE THINGS. EVER. It is very painful. And not because i was told that – although the sock puppets do go there. it’s that I have never been able to make these things happen, and i have let them sit below my emotional radar to some extent – not wanting what I ‘couldn’t’ have. But now they are up and I am aware and all the more overwhelmed with the pain of ‘never have’

I gave up for a while. I couldn’t deal with everything that was happening in my life. I just stopped trying. I feel so beaten down by life. Now, I am trying to rise up again. The situation is VERY scarey. And i am quite isolated.

And I keep getting this horrid feeling – that she is lurking here.

This is a crisis. There may be more down spiral to endure. I have no idea how i will get out of this desperate situation. one step at a time.


M.L. Gallaher

you say you are a woman who:

’turns up, pays attention, speaks her truth and stays unattached to the outcome.

Sounds like the perfect recipe for healing. I’m trying just to turn up, have problems with paying attention and I’m so attached to the outcome it repels anything that would like to come in…

I’m paying back a loan to the bank, and will be for the next few years….and the P spent the money I’m still paying back…how is that fair? and who said this life is fair? yaaargh I guess I’m just going through some bitter feelings at the moment…but I aspire to rising out of this, I swear I have to get out of this mire and into my life again


‘Sounds like the perfect recipe for healing. I’m trying just to turn up, have problems with paying attention and I’m so attached to the outcome it repels anything that would like to come in”’

I SO HEAR YOU! takes me 7 hours ever day just to sew my games face on. Aspire. Keep aspiring.


Spirit: A email from p’s family
I can certainly understand how difficult things are and have been for you with the P but am shocked that you would think that I would share your address with the P .

Please remember that it has been my wife and I have been saying for many years that you need to stay away from him if and untill he makes the decision and committment to get his sorry life together…

Our only interest in contacting you was to see if we could make the Holidays a little brighter for ( my son)

P’s Father

Ox Drover

Dear spirit,

How are you going to handle the e mail? What does “a little brighter” mean? Money or have the child over to their house.

Did they share the address with him?

Are they NC with “sonny boy”? Are they enabling him? giving him money? etc.

I tend to “beware of Greeks bearing gifts” and not to accept “gifts” unless I trust the person who is offering them is not trying to use a “gift” to BUY control or to enhance their own image. Only gifts that don’t have strings attached.


I had a big ah ha… I keep having it over and over… and I don’t get why… that man that told me that he had Cancer.. I should’ve said good luck to you and Goodbye… instead, I was being kind and considerate… then he slam dunks me…

The reality check was when this freak asked me if I had HIV or any STD’s.. I mean good grief WHY did I continue talking to this man? WHY? Because I was being nice! Why was I being so nice? WHY? I was thinking this isn’t sounding good.. I don’t want to meet a man that is recovering from Cancer.. then this inquiring about my health .. when he is the ill one. I am healthy.. WHY did I continue talking with this man? Am I a people pleaser? Am I too nice for my own good? What is it???? Then I get my feeling tweaked when this person has the audacity to say that I am a bit old for what ‘he’ is looking for… YIKES! I stayed too long a the fair.. I am always giving them the benefit of the doubt and being kind and understanding and they zap me… now, this was nothing in the scheme of things.. but it shows how my being nice, ends up getting me slammed! Is this personality trait what gets me in these deals where I am taken advantage of? So do you need to be cold and not nice? Of what? Just self honest.. When he told me that he was recovering from Cancer.. and sent me photos where he was weak and about 20 pounds lighter.. not the vigorous man that I first thought that he was.. I felt sorry for him.. that is it! It played on my womanly emotions of carrying.. I thought he has been through alot …poor guy.. then he inquires of my health.. and I was offended but understood that he is concerned about catching something but it was all too soon, inappropriate and presumtous on his part that we would even have sex.. It makes me sick to my stomach that I set myself up for an insult .. about my age..when I bet if I met this man I wouldn’t even like him, be attracted or anything else… I have men 10 to 15 years my juniour flirt with me.. and I let this nasty man slam dunk me!
So girls and guys this has got to stop!


I once had a brief affair with a man who was a former teacher of mine. I believed that it would be a soulmate type of thing. However, right away on the phone he asked me if I used condoms. In another conversation, he asked if I was still getting periods (I am close to the age of menopause). All of this was because he had sex on his mind obviously. I miraculously overlooked that (!!!!) and proceeded anyway. Then I wondered why I got hurt afterward when he disappeared for several months. I think when we are starry-eyed and having a fantasy about someone, our minds can fill in the gaps. We overlook those little “flaws and weaknesses” (I mean aren’t ALL men obsessed with sex anyway?…..).

I totally understand how you could miss the signals. It’s still difficult to fathom some people’s predatory nature, even when the red flags are waving in my face, cause I’m just not made that way.

I think the fact that he even brought up “age” says a lot to do about his motives and maturity level. Good thing you didn’t bet on that pony.


Hey OxDrover… No he the P dosent contact anyone in his family unless he is really bad or really doing well…. but I know these people …t they were abusive to the P when he was growing up… of course they would not hurt my child…so I am told but do not want to take any chance… we drove across country and could not even stay at their house…but my son spent last TG with them and the P boy I wish I would have gone…. the only horror story my son has was that she told him to brush his hair… he looked like a lion… my child has curly brown banana curl hair … no need for brushes comb when wet is the way we do it anyhow… I am not responding to this email… I have already done x mas shopping… and I would rather stand in line at the share food program than accept as you say greeks bearing gifts….. its to enhance the image of them being superior to my inferior… thats how I take it…. this is the man who when I was 17 told his P … she has no chest……

Both are not role models for my child….. YUK ! yeah I hold onto those memories to mean it says alot about the kind of person you are…. shallow….. I did not give my address and I am not contacting them… anymore… no reason to they have never been warm and kind or loving towards me… just errryyyyyyyy….

Ox Drover

Dear spirit,

Yea, the “one up-man-ship” of giving you things, you poor dear…we DO SO want grandson to have a “brighter” Christmas (than you can give him, poor baby)

Where is the PUKE emoticon when you need it? LOL

My egg donor used to ask me (before the D&D) “do you need money?” I would always tell her “NO, I am doing fine” and I would have said the same thing if I had been in the share food program line as well. I used to say I would live in a tent and eat out of the dumpster behind McDonald’s before I would have taken a dime from her.

I think it actually made her mad that I would not be “bought” by her “generosity”—but it always came with strings. She even told her attorney how “generous” she had been to me.

Except for when she gave me a check because she was too infirm to shop and this was not some huge check either) I never took a dime from her except the $100 she gave me for BDs and Xmas. I learned with my X-in-laws (Ps) that taking “gifts” from people can be a LOSING PROPOSITION…I am and always have been fiercly independent financially and never owed a soul a dime that I didn’t pay back…live within my means. the only money I ever borrowed from her was to pay my son’s private school tuition, and I paid that back WITH INTEREST even though she told me I didn’t have to. maybe that’s prideful on my part, but at least no one can say they bought and paid for me.



yeah they used to make comments when he was a baby oh he’s got the same outfit on , yeah because I washed it and he wore it again I thought it was adorable… how many friken outfits does a baby need ??? oh and what size is he now we havent seen him in a year they have only seen him about 5 times in 12 years…. hardly a relationship with strangers….

I like you , like to depend on myself except when the P was living off me .. would have been nice to have him support me through school since he drank on my couch for 3 years on and off…. and for the past 23 years I was the back burner chick since he saddled me with his seed… ( my boy) whom I love and dont mean that in a bad way….. they can save for his college but my parents didnt put me through college , loans and grants I will be paying off …. first they asked what we needed then when I said I didnt feel comfortable giving my address he said only interested in a brighter christmas for my son… they devalue and discard me all the time….ugghghhghg…


Style1: What I decided was what I had called being “nice” was really being dishonest about what I was feeling. And I had to ask myself, was I really being nice, or afraid of them not liking my honest reaction or even rejecting me for it? Now I try to “mean what I say, but not say it meanly.” (That I think is an alnon saying I got from a friend.)And the truth is, if someone stomps off because you let them know that what they just said offended you, you are probably better off without them. They just lost interest because you are not a victim!

As far as “feeling on edge” that nails what I felt as sort of a last stage. I don’t know if that is withdrawal from certain brain chemicals, or a fear that it is not really over, or a longing to get back at them but knowing you can’t. Whatever it is, I felt it. Coming to lf is how I have dealt with it. Maybe it is partly a reaction to the end of the drama that was them. I dunno. But I’m mostly past that “on edge” feeling. I think it is part of PTSD.

Ox Drover

Dear JAH,

I think you hit the nail on the head GF! always “being nice” is not always HONEST, and we really do need to be honest, but at the same time, we can use TACT and not be “hateful” just because we are also honest. Setting boundaries is HONEST, “being nice” and letting people disrespect you is not HONEST because we RESENT them doing that, just like Style said she resented her X not paying his share of the expenses that she expected he should pay. When we resent someone because they are NOT doing what we expect them to, or because they are doingsomething we don’t like, we are not being honest to say, “I have a problem with xy or z”

“John, I have a problem with you not having a job.” Or “I have a problem with you dropping your dirty socks for someone else to pick up.” Whatever it is that WE have a problem wioth someone else’s behavior that effects US is honest to say it, but also be firm and enforce our boundaries. Sometimes if we DO enforce those boundaries though, the RELATIONSHIP WILL END if they do not respect them. And, when we set a boundary we MUST BE PREPARED FOR THAT RELATIONSHIP TO END.

We can set a boundary, enforce that boundary and discuss it with someone, if they refuse to discuss it…well, you know where that leads.

Before I went NC with my egg donor, I tried to discuss what had gone on, and she REFUSED to discuss things and said instead “let’s just pretend none of this happened and start over.” THAT WAS HER BOUNDARY, we “will not discuss this” but MY boundary was “without discussing this, we have no further relationship.” NC

She is unable/unwilling to respect my boundary, and I cannot and will not “pretend none of this happened.”

Unfortunately too many times my “boundaries” were not solid, and many times UNspoken, so the other party could always deny that they “knew.” So now, I speak clearly and openly and try to be TACTFUL about how I phrase them. But I am honest as well. It feels a lot better.

The only “person” I can’t get to respect my boundaries is teh darned [email protected] She thinks she owns the place and that I am her servant! the dog is her toy and playmate. UGH! I can train anything except a darn [email protected]#$

Ox Drover

Dear Spirit,

I had a college scholarship when I was 16 but blew it off to trapse around the world, then when I went back as an adult, I worked, rised my kids, got a bit of scholarship and grant money (not much) and loans which I paid back, and lived on the edge of poverty but felt proud of myself. My egg donor never offered me a cent (and I would have died before I would have asked except I did BORROW some money for her for school tuition for my ADHD kid for a small private school for a couple of years) I paid her back with INTEREST calculated to the cent at the MAXIMUM legal rate for my state.

Yea, they always try to make their INVASIONS appear to be “gestures of good will”—LOL

I agree with you about the clothes. Heck my kids didn’t know STORES SOLD CLOTHES until they got in Jr. High, they thought you bought them in some one’s front yard! But they were the best dressed kids in school! My sons are still sharp dressers when they go out and most of their clothes are bought at the Goodwill.


Morning Oxy… As they say one womans trash is another’s treasure!
nothing wrong with hand me downs and good will and thrift stores, specially if ya find them in the snooty area of town woo hoo then , its like hitting the jack pot… my friend and I actually just went a couple weeks ago… although I did not want or need anything just to look… I could have bought a shirt for 4.50….. instead of retail 20-30?

yeah….. we are good people not like the parasitic lifestyle these P’s lead lieing , cheating, sofa surfing…. sc–m bags…. I just found out the email I got from the P , well he is not in a “program” its an outpatient program OMG watch out world…. he is still on the loose… I tell everyone I can. And I cut the cell phone ..checked the bill … that is how I found out…..anyone remember “secret squirrel” LOL well thats me…I just hate being lied to and its funny when I cut the phone bill the cell people called me back to make “sure” I wanted to do this … I was like yeah it belongs to my psycho bf and I am sure since he dosent pay the bill. how dare they? he probably called them LOL oh well I guess his new BF has to pay the bill now or his sister….better them than me… but to lie and say you love your child, happy holidays blah blah …. he better not come near me…I got 911 programed on my cell phone…..


Email response not sent to P’s family:

First of all you have no idea of the difficulties, difficulties is a mild term, let me find some words to describe what the P has caused in my life… he had been devious, humiliating, embarrassingg, harassing, manipulative, violent, rageful, a bully, exploitative…. he is not only  an alcoholic that is just a mask for his personality disorder.

Yes I do remember a few times you said somethings about The P being a part time presence in our lives etc etc , I do not recall you telling me to stay away from him.. in those actual words ever.

Sociopaths/Narcissists/ Anti socials  do not think there is anything wrong with them so  as far as getting his sorry life together , I am not surprised you have so little compassion for a son whom you choose to adopt. I see where he gets some or most of the characteristics from being emotionally/physically abused as a child.  Along with not being able to bond at birth with anyone. Along with the genetic factor and there you have the monster /confused immature creature that he is. Pathetic he is but not with out his background.

I have lived with the P on and off for 23 years and know him more intimately (not on his part) and can make this claim I lived with the evidence. As I said alcoholism is a mask a way to cope with his disorder.

The way he was abusive, targeting me, taking advantage of me, his immaturity , irresponsibility ,etc  towards us is inexcusable. I want nothing to do with him. But he has succeeded in sucking his child in, what little boy dosent want his father. He is pathetic, I was not trying to play house with him. I am growing and mature  and his growth is stunted.

Thanks for the gesture… I think….my son doesn’t need material things to bring a brighter holiday, I am quite capable of providing what he needs.  As I always have . If you still think somehow your presents will win him over you can send a gift card via amazon.


I sent my ex-husband an email last week to thank him for walking out on me eight years ago. His actions that day changed me in ways I could not have imagined at the time. I see my relationship with him as something that was meant to be to help me become who I am today.

I was married four weeks ago to a wonderful man. It took alot of work to get to this point in my life but it was all worth it. My advice to those trying to recover today – embrace the pain and allow it to change you. Always remember that today you are where you are meant to be.


I agree that sometimes being nice is to not offend and have someone leave …

but I usually try and do see both sides.. as in this man that told me that he had cancer after we had been talking for quite a while…

I thought people get ill, I could get ill.. would I want to be rejected just because I am ill… so I felt compassion and continued .. then when he started asking if I had HIV or STDs.. I began to feel strange … like there is something off in this.. and I was questioning in my mind and feeling insulted.. while also understanding that if someone has been ill that they would be cautious.. but is was too soon and abrupt the way he inquired about my health.. and nothing about me indicates that anything is wrong with me and nothing is… it played out and cost me nothing to let it play out until he told me that he was interested in someone younger… that was the slap.. Iwas being considerate about his issues.. then he slammed dunked me when I am younger than he is and look much younger am healthy.. so he revealed to me that he is a jerk..

With the last man I was engaged to.. he had tons of things in his life that I didn’t enjoy when we first met.. a very sick mother.. that I did like and cared for .. and he was living in an almost empty large rental house.. that I helped him get out of.. now this was in the first three months of our meeting.. too much too soon… and the day that he moved in with me, he reveals that he is being evicted.. three months past dues in rent.. while he is wining and dining me and leaving his ill mother alone in the house .. except we would go over and get her grocerys on Sat. afternoon… And he was living practically at my house.. I stated several times, shouldn’t you be with your mother instead of here.. ? And he said no she is fine.. then she goes to a hospital. He closes down the house, and the day that he moves in, I find that he is 8 thousand behind in rent.. When I found that out… I literally felt like I was going to throw up. I felt used.. he was after me so hard for a place to live is what I felt. We had a huge arguement and he spent a lot of effort showing me that he loved me.. then I realized that part of the way that he was living was his mother’s SS.. then she dies like two weeks later.. and I am the one that tells him and I am the one that sees her more than he does..

So no, I was kind.. too kind and understanding… then the relationship went on from there..

Once, I called his mother and she thought I was his daugher and she blurted out. “Your good for nothing father doesn’t come to see me.” I should’ve heard clearly what his own mother said about him. But instead, I chalked it up to old age.. as he did try.. and his life was exhausting, traveling all the time in his business..and he did not cheat on me.. he talked to me too much on the phone and every night.. he was in a bad place and I understood and helped.. being a kind person.. but the deal is that none of it was good for me or my life.. it offered little but giving and burdens.. and I felt tired and used and these were not my burdens.. but again.. I don’t regret helping his mother..
but as the relationship played out and I met his emotionally wacked out daughter all I could see is family diffifulties with children that are not mine.. But this man worked and gave his money to his kids and did do what he could for me.. but I never felt right about it all after I realized that he was being evicted.. I told him several times that he should’ve moved not a smaller place and gotten out of that overhead… and his last wife had died only three months before we met.. and he married her too fast and told me the marriage was over in the first few months.. but he couldn’t afford a divorce .. then she dies of an overdose.. it is all too bizarre…
so no, I am too nice, understanding, caring, and try to see both sides.. I have been through rough times .. so I try to see things from another’s viewpoint.. and it gets me into bad things for me…

Ox Drover

Dear Spirit,

I can almost “see” your “out-laws” in teh letter you DIDN’T send (BTW I wrote lots of those). The pretenses that they were trying to protect you, although I do admit their “VERY TACTFUL “he will not be a full time presense in your life” is not exactly a RUN GIRL! and I imagine their knowing him and not saying that is like saying “Jack the Ripper” might tear your dress on a date.

I agree with you that these people are SHALLOW at best, and the pretense of “loving” a grandson that they don’t have a relationship with, and never really wanted a relationship with, but want to tell their bridge partners about the poor little deprived boy, the offspring opf that pioor kid they adopted and dis so mcuh for who turned out to be such a disappointment, oh, my goodhess how their charity and good will has been abused–my goodness, what VICTIMS they are, but oh, they did try so hard” MAKE ME WEEP FOR THEM, NOT!!!

Maybe that is a judgmental picture I am forming in my mind by my seeing them like the N-Minister I lately dealt with in his pious stories of doing for the offspring of his own P adopted kid who sounds so like your X. the “he won’t be a full time presence in your life” is the kind of high-flung “warning” he would have given to a woman involved with his P-son I am sure.

In any case, that was the picture of what your letter evoked in my mind.

Personally, I am glad that your son has YOU and hopefully you can inflluence him and EDUCATE him CAREFULLY before the “terrible teens hit” and you suddenly become “retarded” and though all kids want a daddy, he can see what his daddy really IS.

It’s kind of like “criticising” a kid’s new crush, they think the other one is “perfect” so you can’t openly criticize it pretty much has to be done by making the kid open his eyes to the BEHAVIOR of the other person, to see the irresponsibility, to see that the hopes they hold out don’t come to reality. If you openly criticize I think that the kid becomes very defensive of them and has to “protect” the person from “YOUR MEAN SPIRIT.” LOL My egg donor is protecting my P son from my mean spirited desire that he remain in prisopn forever because she KNOWS that with all her love she can SAVE him.

Where is the PUKE emoticon when you need it!? LOL

Good going,Spirt, STAND TALL! Your little “lion cub” has a wonderful mother and personally I think that “can’t comb it unless it is wet” hair is really [email protected] (((hugs))))


My fault is not sticking to what I want.. I don’t want a man with younger children, financial problems and that owes lots of child support and thisis what he was. His life was in a mess and mine isn’t.. and I let him infiltrate my life with his charm his words, his promises and his handsome facade.. I bought it but not totally…I am too kind and understanding when I should be taking care of me. He did things for me and fit the image but it was not real. What I had made him look good.. ans friends wondered why he was living with me..He just upsurped my life…. he wanted me, my energy, my life.. my peace and he went after it.. and I felt a large amount of internal conflict while being oh so kind. In the first few months, he was being pushy.. telling me how I should feel and I told him to get out.. to leave.. that I didn’t like what he was doing.. I saw it .. but he always talked me down..


WOO HOO…. Yes Oxy! you have them pegged as well… I have said it so eloquently… its all just for show… they messed up two of their own kids…. not going to mess with mine…..shallow can be learned and its even worse when you try to hide and cover it up with degree’s etc… us peasants are nice and normal the ones with the fancy upbringings can be narc/p’s/as’s just like anyone else…..

I just need to hunker down and go NC completely… change #’s emails addy etc…. why oh why did I not go with my own instincts when I did notice the behaviors… why did I always go back ? lack of self esteem/confidence ? in my own instincts well its better to be a late bloomer! I did not want to see it denial I guess.. hope faith … never fall in love with someones potential especially if they never grow up!!!

LOL Thanks for the support…. as always ! hugs!!!!! =) we need to create that PUKE ICON SOON!!!!!

Ox Drover

Dear Style,

I think what you were feeling was more PITY than compassion, and his FOG (Fear, Obligation and Guilt) hooked you in to the “caretaker” mode where you started assuming HIS RESPONSIBILITIES of caring for his mother.

YOU saw his mother was neglected and said something about it, but HE brushed this off with “reassurance” she was “Okay” and you bought that lie because he was “love bombing” you….then when the TRUTH came out (maybe even after he had moved into your house) you didn’t ACT on the knowledge of the truth immediately.

I’ve been there, Style, I’ve let people (not romantic relationships, but “friends”) L,ITERALLY MOVE IN ON ME, and felt too much PITY for the (self-caused) situations they were in financially to “throw them out on the street with no where to go”—they COUNT on this PITY keeping us guilted into providing for them what they should be providing for themselves if they didn’t have a dupe (us) to provide it for them,but we do RESENT doing it because in our HEARTS we KNOW that they are not our responsibility….so on it goes, round and round until we live in resentment doing for them, or we finally get a gut full, throw a fit and throw them out.

That is called ENABLING, and it always causes resentment on the part of the enabler because of its UNFAIRNESS but jeven the enabled person resents us because we are doing for them, and it is “never just how the want it” no matter what we do.

I have now found that I have learned to set boundaries, and one of the first ones I set was telling these “friends” that they had to LEAVE HERE, “IT JUST ISN’T WORKING” (in those very words) They never even asked “WHY, what have we done?” They knew it was coming sooner or later.

Setting that first boundary and STICKING TO IT was so difficult for me. I cried cause I didn’t “want to hurt their feelings”—CRAP! Why would I care about hurting their feelings, they had STOMPED on mine, moved into my space and taken over, treating me like the interlolper in my own space. Living here like Lords with me the poor relative that they allowed to stay on their charity!

The experience of setting and maintaining that boundary though, made me realize the feelings that HIGHLIGHT when you are in one of those relationships, assuming responsibility for someone else’s needs, and putting your own needs subservient to them. When I get that feeling now, I STOP and say to myself–WHOSE RESPONSIBILITY IS THIS? then if it is not mine, I put the responsibility for it back on them.

I set the boundary and enforce it. If they run over the boundary, I don’t need them in my life. And NO GUILT goes along with it either. No tears, no feeling nI could have done more, or should have done more for them. Compassion, but NO PITY. I’m learning to have compassion for people, but UNlearning “pity” which is NOT the same as compassion.

I expect others to care for their own responsibilities and not depend on me for what they can and should provide for themselves. I expect adults to not have to have me remind them to do the basics of adult life. I wouldn’t put up with that kind of behavior from my adult sons, so why would I feel guilty about confronting the same behavior from a “friend” (who isn’t a friend)?

Using these events and relationships as a CLASSROOM to teach ourselves what we need to alter in our way of thinking to help keep us safe from some of the mistakes we made in judgment and action in the past (having too much pity for one) and not putting the responsibility for their lives back where it belongs in THEIR HANDs etc. In the future we can make better, wiser choices and not let our emotions and caregiving tendencies get us deeply embroiled with peoople who are actually users and frankly mooches.

When someone is asking or demanding that you do something for them, and you feel resentment at the prospect of doing this. STOP and listen to your GUT! It is trying to tell you something.

Hang in there and keep on reading and learning! It starts out about THEM but becomes about US, and that is when we really make significant progress in healing.


Good morning everyone!
catherine; wonderful words to remember! let the pain roll over you, embrace it, welcome it. I have done this because I find that on the other side is ME and I like me more and more each day. I am so happy for you! Thank you for sharing.
osaat-There IS magic. For me, it was magic just to have my eyes opened to what my ex Path was really all about. I use the serenity prayer a lot;
God grant me the serenity
To accept the things I cannot change;
Courage to change the things I can;
And wisdom to know the difference.
Boy, do I ever understand your frustration though. I have been there many times.
Spirit, you are more than welcome. You help a lot of others on here simply by sharing. I had plenty of messages from his family. Six months after we met, we flew (I paid for the tickets) to meet his family. His nickname was “Nixon” Hello! Wake up! I CHOSE not to listen. I somehow thought I was the one he wouldn’t hurt. Somehow he wouldn’t lie, cheat or steal. I really believed his BS that he had finally grown up. All these years later of course I know that’s an insane thought. I wouldn’t trust him to go to the bathroom alone(not like I would go with him). In all of this he blew my dreams all to hell and back and today I have new dreams that I trust in and know will happen with a lot of work and faith.
When I was pregnant with our son, I had a bad fall. I called him (he was in school at the time) and told him I had to go to the hospital. He showed up 4 HOURS LATER. He had finished his class and stopped to get something to eat. To this day, that one eats at me a little. I would have jumped in the car and been there in 20 minutes. Guess who was embarrassed by his behavior? Not him! Me. I think when it comes to red flags, they can almost make us color blind if we allow it. Today, I’m not color blind.
Ox, I laughed so hard my butt fell off and I had to go find it when I read about your cat. I chose the name “Cat” for LF because cats have an uncanny ability to know what is coming, like storms, etc… They also see things we don’t and are aware of much more than I was for a very long time. You made my day with this one. 🙂
What IS it with people and cell phones and emails? I received a text from my sister the other day that said.”Now do I have to be ready to get —– out of jail again or are you 2 back to being a couple?” I did respond and told her, “Neither. We are NOT nor will we ever be a couple and if he goes to jail, it’s your choice to bail him out.” This is the only contact I’ve had with her as she has been sold a bill of goods by my ex Path and I understand how he could do that to her, yet I can’t have her in my life right now. She’s as toxic as he is. I am ready to change my cell phone, home phone and business phone as well. Whatever it takes.


Ox, I have never heard of the FOG and it’s meaning, but I really like that! Makes sense to me. Pity is a weapon my ex path uses on a regular basis. It’s a tool they use. He’s used it with me and others and since we are always the NICE ones, the ones who try to please the world, mine got away with a lot. He’s still using it with family members, but that’s out of my hands as I’ve written about in the post above.
style, your words tell MY story. I made my ex P. look very, very good. He dressed better than he ever had, lived in houses nicer than he had ever had and drove a great car, mine. I call them spiritual vampires. They take our energy, time, money, our soul if we let them. They drain us dry and then when they’ve taken it all, they look elsewhere. I told him, to his face at one point, that I saw this and understood it. He HATED that. It was truth, his truth and he didn’t like being found out. He wasn’t sorry by any means that he had done all of this. He was sorry someone had pegged him. I got that too.
Ox, I love what you said about enabling. It is so true! He really did end up resenting me because I did all the giving and also pegged him. Enabling is part of co-dependency and I am working on that every day. I’ve come to see my part in it. I read as much as I can and I know this is something that will take a VERY long time.


Yes.. it was pity, not really obligation and not really guilt..
and I think the pity that I felt blocked attraction to him.. as I saw him as needy in too many areas..
but as all of us get older.. we have things in our lives.. I am fortunatein that my Dad is self-sufficent .. but helping with his mother wasn’t that bad.. but it was like it never ended.. with the mother molested daughter,, the child with cancer.. the ex’s kid with mental issues.. on going.. people in his life thrusted into mine where I had none of this in my life..
I feel confused at just now.. as he wasn’t as bad as most.. and I am feeling lonely.. like maybe, I expect too much…


And get this my friends come to me for advice because I am so ‘together’… many are in bad marriages or not so good ones and just stay because they are afraid to be alone.. I have been alone for years.. and get out of things that don’t work.. I have been hurt but have never settled.. and I watch women settle and settle…but they have okay lives… I look like I have it all.. and I think that is what attracts these men… A pschologist once told me that I attract playboys but it doesn’t work becasue I am too intelligent.. so I am screwed.. this last man ‘seemed’ to get a side of me.. but I felt used…and like something was off.. it was too contrived and I didn’t feel loved on a deep level..
I just don’t get what this is all about any more…


As the song goes I would rather be alone ! than UNHAPPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Lovefraud is being upgraded. Comments and forum posts are temporarily disabled. Dismiss

Send this to a friend