By | December 8, 2008 278 Comments

After the sociopath, learning to trust again

A Lovefraud reader posted the following comment awhile back:

I just have one question for everyone here. Does anyone trust people after these sick people did what they did to us? Unfortunately for me ”¦ I have run across a few of these sickos but NONE like my ex. Whoever I meet now I’m thinking to myself, who is this person really? Do they have a secret life like the Scott Petersons and Ted Bundys of this world? I don’t let my children out of my sight and I’m already training my kids and they all know the signs of a sociopath especially my girls. I feel like I’m in a prison sometimes in my mind as I try so hard but just can’t trust anyone.

Yes, it is possible to trust again. Remember, sociopaths account for 1% to 4% of the population, depending on how the personality disorder is defined. Let’s bump the number of disordered people up to 10% to account for those who have sociopathic traits, but maybe not the full disorder.

That still means that 90% of the population are not sociopaths, and may be deserving of our trust.

So how can we feel trust again? How do we determine whom to trust? I think there are four components to being able to feel trust, and deciding who deserves to be trusted.

1. Educate ourselves

One of the statements I’ve heard over and over again, through e-mails and phone calls from victims, is this: “I didn’t know such evil existed.” Well, now we know.

We’ve all learned, mostly the hard way, about sociopaths. Now that we know they exist, we need to educate ourselves about the warning signs, the patterns of behavior that may indicate someone is disordered. Lies, irresponsibility, vague answers to questions, no long-term friends, new in town, magnetic charm, lavish flattery, statements that don’t add up, flashes of violence—if we start seeing the signs, we need to put up our guard.

2. Believe our own instincts

Just about everyone who was victimized by a sociopath had early warning signs—a gut feeling that something wasn’t right, an instinctive revulsion, questions about what was seen or heard. Unfortunately, we ignored the signals.

We didn’t believe the signals for three reasons:

  • We didn’t have the empirical knowledge that evil exists (see above), so we didn’t know how interpret them.
  • We viewed ourselves as open-minded individuals, and believed that everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt.
  • We allowed the sociopath to explain away our questions and doubts.

Never again. We should never doubt our instincts. In fact, we should train ourselves to pay attention to our instincts. Our intuition is absolutely the best tool we have for steering clear of sociopaths.

3. Make people earn our trust

I had a blind spot. I am a forthright, trustworthy person. I would never think of lying to someone. Unfortunately, I thought everyone else was like me. Big mistake. My younger brother’s life philosophy is probably more useful. His rule of thumb: “Everyone is an a**hole until proven otherwise.”

The point is that we should not give our trust away indiscriminately. People must earn our trust by consistent, reliable and truthful behavior.

Important caveat: Sociopaths often appear to be trustworthy, dependable and honest in the beginning, while they’re trying to hook us. So if the good behavior slips, and bad behavior starts to appear, we must recognize the change as a big red flag.

4. Process our pain

I think the biggest roadblock to being able to trust again is our own pain. After an encounter with a sociopath, we’ve been deceived, betrayed, injured, emotionally crushed. We are angry and bitter, and rightfully so. But if we want to move on, we can’t keep carrying the pain around.

To get rid of the pain, we must allow ourselves to feel it.

I recommend that, either privately or with the guidance of a good therapist, we let the tears and curses flow. Expressing the pain physically, without hurting yourself or others, also helps. My favorite technique was pounding pillows with my fists. You may want to stomp your feet, twist towels or chop wood.

For more on this, read Releasing the pain inflicted by a sociopath.

Trust and love

It is important to be able to trust again. Doubting and disbelieving everyone we meet is a dismal way to live. If we cannot recover our trust in humanity, the sociopath who plagued us will have truly won.

The difference is that after the sociopath, we must practice informed trust. We know the red flags of a sociopath, and in evaluating a person, we don’t see them. Our intuition is giving us the green light. The person has proven, and continues to prove, to be trustworthy. These are the intellectual aspects of trust.

By doing the work of exorcising our pain, we clear away the roadblocks to feeling trust emotionally. It’s crucial to be able to feel trust, because that’s what paves the way for love.

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I think Love and Trust are two Seperate Cognitive states of mind!
It is my Opinion that Trust is what I have for God!

Love is what I have for Mankind!

It has been my experience that trusting people will always fail me! Does’nt matter who, my parents , my siblings , my best friends , esp.employers! The Cause: Everyone of us is going to see circumstances , events , reality , from our own self/point of view. And Judge our loyalty on how it benifts us personaly! Case in Point; My Psycopath exp. My Mother who is the closest person to me . Says Put the past behind you and move on! While this is what I must do ! Her timing and my timing are not the same! They , my Folks , have’nt a clue what it is like to DOUBT your own worth as a person , because or in part to having loved a person who’s intent was your destruction!

God has NEVER let me down! ever!

And it is because of this that I don’t fear men , the world , or anything!

You can take my Life! and you may think you have won!

You Can NOT take What does not belong to me! MY SOUL ! That Belongs to GOD!


Elizabeth Conley

There’s trust and then again there’s trust. Trust is earned over time.

My husband, my friends and most of the members of our family are trustworthy. There is one untrustworthy member of the family, and my husband has chosen NC. I support him in this.

In the workforce one runs into a few cluster Bs, and it’s necessary to cope. I’ve been a housewife for a while now, and picking my associates has been one of the perks. In recent years, my troubles have been confined to church. I’m church shopping for the first time in my life, looking for a congregation that isn’t entirely dominated by its cluster Bs. I want my children to grow up in a healthy church. It doesn’t have to be perfect, but we will not be participating in dysfuntional dramas every other week.

This weekend I visited a very nice church. We won’t be back. The church service was everything I hoped for, the location is convenient and the congregation is super friendly. SUPER FRIENDLY! In fact, I’d say that they are willing to violate their own boundaries and mine to make the point that they are super friendly. They hugged me, not just a few people, but a full dozen. Stiff, awkward, forced hugs. They gave me a mug and a stack of pamphlets intended to attract me to the church. Then there was the pastor. He spent significant time during the sermon telling the congregation about his own generous holiday giving plan. Was he a narcissist? Hard to say.

I felt nervous. Am I hyper-vigilant? You betcha. I’d be nervous no matter what. On the other hand, there were definite signs that I should be nervous. Those signs are present in many churches, but not all. That’s why I’m shopping around for a sane church for the first time in my life. For my entire life it has been my responsibility to “bloom where I’m planted.” This time I’m going to take it easy on myself by selecting a good location to put down roots.

Last weekend we visited a church where none of those signs were present. Sure, one member of the staff wore a permanent scowl, and at least one member of the congregation was painfully shy. Those things are just fine. There was no “love bombing”. Everyone seemed to be more or less playing themselves that morning, instead of a “loving church” drama production. The pastor’s sermon was not about himself. We’ll be going back next week to take a closer look. They have lots of youth programs, and my children were happy in Sunday school that day. They have several adult Sunday school classes. Chances are there will be one that will be safe for me. I’m not kidding myself, in a church of 200 there’s bound to be about 8 cluster Bs. As long as their agendas don’t predominate, the kids and I will be fine. It will take at least a year for us to risk joining them, but if the social climate isn’t toxic we will give it a whirl.

No, I’m not going to trust my new congregation with more than I should. If they can just behave themselves most Sundays, everything will be fine. In a few years I may even have built 2-3 good friendships. What more could anyone ask for? I’ll be thankful if that’s the outcome.


What Denomination where you brought up in?
I have been an Episcapalian all my life! The last time I went to Church was out of respect for My Best Friend and His Family! He Left at 42.
I am going to do as you say Shop , I would say Interview! The Epicapal Church has Just Split Over the LGBT ( Lesbian,Gay ,Bisexual,Transgender) issue of Human Rights! There is no Shortage of churches , almost like 7-11s used to be on every corner! Now it’s CVS , Walgreens , Ekards. LOVE JJ

Elizabeth Conley


I’ll stay that way if I can. I think that Methodist churches relatively well prepared to manage their cluster Bs. Some newer denominations and nondenominational churches practically revel in dysfunctionalism. In general, old style liturgical churches are relatively drama resistant. I wouldn’t be to eager to leave the Episcopal Church. They’re a pretty sane bunch. Until you’ve heard grace spoken in tongues and seen people writhing around talking to demons, you just don’t know how wacky religion can get in the good ol’ U S of A.

There are checks and balances in well established denominations’ church governments that generally operate to thwart the worst excesses.


I was not sugesting I wanted to leave , infact I will check them out First .

Elizabeth Conley

Good plan. If you stay in the culture you grew up in, you’re more likely to agree about where the interpersonal boundaries are. It saves a bit of energy.

For instance: I could probably find a niche for myself in a organization full of stranger-huggers. I’ve done it before. Trouble is, it can be a bit awkward, and I run the risk of being labeled snobbish, standoffish or just plain mean. That or I live with the low level anxiety inherent in having strangers and distant acquaintances constantly intruding on my personal space. That’s considerable emotional labor, and to what end? What’s in it for me? As a military wife I’ve had to go along to get along with a new group of people every 2-3 years. Those days are past, and I don’t miss ’em.

If you don’t have to deal with these awkward issues, then don’t. That’s my take on it – for what it’s worth.

Ox Drover

This is a good article and one which I think all of us need to take into our souls.

I just read some good articles on the net (thanks Blogger T) about false consensus bias and cognitive dissonance, and it is normal for us to think that others think like we do, but that is NOT necessarily the way it really is.

It is also natural and normal for us to be leery of others when we have been burned by “others”–again, a normal way to think. If a dog bites you, you may become afraid of ALL dogs, and so if a “person” (P) bites you since you can’t see who is a P and who is not, you may become distrusting of ALL people.

We CAN see the RED FLAGS though, just like we don’t need to be afraid of ALL dogs just because one bit us, we just need to learn to be cautious and watch for the RED FLAGS that a dog might be liable to bite, so we need to watch for the RED FLAGS of a P and then determine that s/he might bite and avoid them, like you would a dog that had the body language of one that was aggressive.

With large animals capable of hurting someone, such as the horses, mules and cattle (oxen) I have trained, I trust them to a certain extent depending on past behavior, but I NEVER trust them 100% because I know they are large animals capable of hurting or killing me, so I am cautious around them somewhat no matter how trustworthy they have been in the past, but I don’t FEAR them, I respect their capablilty for injury and act accordingly.

With people, just like with my animals, I CULL them at the first sign of untrustworthyness and aggression. For years I have culled out any animal on this farm which would act aggressively for no reason. I exempted a mother protecting her young, or one acting in total panic, but ANY animal that showed even the least bit of aggressiveness or meanness WENT to that great barn in the sky.

When I was boarding the horses left homeless by the tornado for a while earlier this year, one of the was totally aggressive and bit the breast of her owner and almost amputated that appendage. I would have immediately gone to the house, gotten a gun and shot that animal. No ifs ands or buts. She is dangerous, but her owner (even with my coaching) could not accept that her small children were endangered by this viscious animal and that she was endangered by the animal.

Animals have a “pecking order” of dominance just like humans do, and animals will dominate you if they are allowed to do so, whether it is your pet dog or a horse. An aggressiveness in a 5 pound dog can be “managed” but aggressiveness in a 1500 pound horse is another matter entirely. To me, and my way of thinking, I can manage the 5 pound aggressive dog without any major risk, but the 1500 pound horse or cow must be submissive to me. So around here we have what I jokingly call the “Bigger and meaner” rule.

If an animal is bigger AND meaner than I am, it goes. It can be bigger and not as mean, or smaller and meaner, but NEVER BOTH BIGGER AND MEANER. LOL

With people, even people I have known for some time, I am “culling” out those people from my environment who I am aware of that do things I think of as “mean”—that includes anything that is illegal or immoral that hurts other people to their benefit. A long time ago I culled out people who drink to excess or drug, anyone who drinks/drugs and drives, people who steal even on a minor level like taking things home from the office instead of buying them for themselves, and people who are in general just “unkind” to others, people who are overly critical of others, people who don’t exhibit compassion for others….and the list goes on.

Sometimes at work, or in life, you have to associate with these people, otherwise you’d have to go live on a desert island by yourself, but at the same time, you can pick the people with whom you are INTIMATE FRIENDS. I have a fairly large circle of people who I consider intimate friends, and trustworthy, but even with those people there are “levels” of intimacy and trust. Most of those people have also been friends “through thick and thin” and are “tried and trusted” through years and years of observation.

I agree with Elizabeth, dealing with awkward issues is generally not necessary if you “cull” out those people who are willing to walk on your boundaries or violate good morals.


I’m finding that I don’t even give guys a chance who are interested in me. I don’t even feel an ounce of interest. If they compliment me in any way (tell me I’m beautiful, etc.) I shut down now. I think my reactions are a little extreme. Most guys are at a loss when trying to get a woman’s attention. I used to always give them the benefit of the doubt. Now I don’t even give them the time of day. I’m guessing I won’t be dating for quite a while.


StarG: I know exactly how you feel. I’m still looking at folks now in the mindset of “what’s in it for you”! “What do you want?”.

It be nice is some guy just says “hey I want a date for Saturday night, that’s it” … or, “I have to show up at my bosses party as a couple … and I find you attractive, so will you go out with me to my bosses party … that’s it, we don’t have to see each other again … cause I’m a selfish jerk and I don’t have room in my life than anyone else but me”.

That would be refreshing.



LOL Wini. Yes, if everyone just told the truth, we could all make informed choices. The selfish jerks would still get laid occasionally, because there are people out there who like that sort of thing. I am much more tempted to give a dollar to a street person who is holding up a sign that says “Why lie? Need money for beer.” At least it’s honest.


StarG: One winter … about 15 years ago, I was walking to the dirt lot were I parked. Many of the city’s alcoholics sat in that dirt lot day after day. This one man came over to me and said “I’m so sorry Miss, but I am so hungry, can you spare some change”. I said, I’ll give you money if you promise me you will buy something to eat and not go buy a bottle”. He said that he promise.

The only thing I had was either a $10 or $20 bill. I forgot which is was. Anyway, I handed him the bill. He thanked me and walked across the street. I got into my car. I had to wait for traffic …as I waited I could see the man through the window of the diner across the street, sitting at a table. I don’t know what he ordered, but I was glad he got some food to eat.

God made the heavy traffic that held me up from leaving the lot … just so I could witness this miracle.


Elizabeth Conley

Awesome story Wini. Thanks for sharing that. We all need to be reminded that there’s decency in the world.


What a beautiful story, Wini. You have a very kind heart. I hope the people you have in your life from now on can appreciate that and never exploit it. I have a similar story. Many years ago, I waited all day for food stamps. I was a poor, starving grad student. After waiting all day for my $80 of food stamps, I walked out of the food stamp office and saw a homeless woman begging on the side of the road. I tore my food stamp book in half and gave her half. I don’t ever remember a person being so grateful in my life. To me, her smile was worth so much more than $40. Plus, you can’t buy beer with food stamps, so I know she put it to good use.

On the other hand, I once saw a street person holding up a sign that said, “why lie? Need money for beer.” I gave him a dollar for his honesty. I figure it’s not my place to judge a homeless person’s addictions. I’m sure if I were living on the street, I’d want to get drunk every day, too.


This is a little off topic.. sorry…

Last night I was watching “Old Yeller”.. the disney classic, which I hadn’t seen since I was a kid on the old Sunday night Disney show…those of you familar with the ending of the movie, Old Yeller gets rabies for a fight with a infected wolf. At first, the dog seems ok, but the family quarantine Old Yeller, just in case…. As the weeks go by, the dog seems fine, but one night when the boy goes to feed him, Yeller snarles and growls at him..and looks at the boy with hate in his eyes….The boy knows in his heart what is wrong with the dog, but can’t accept the heartbreaking facts… As I sat there with my son, watching this unfold, I couldn’t help but think about my sociopath, and how she, like the dog in the movie did a “about face” with me… on the outside, she looked the same, but on the inside there was something wrong, and then just like with Old Yeller, she too looked at me with hate in not only her eyes, but in her heart….. Later, after having to put the dog down, the boy seems to be in a haze.. the light is gone from his eyes… The father comes home and tells the boy, (after the boy had just buried Old Yeller) To try to forget about it… the boy looks at his father with tears in his eyes and said “How can I ever forget about it.”… The father tells him that there are things in life that will knock you down and knock the wind out of you.. but there is also wonderful things in life, and sometimes it takes having been knocked down to see the good in life….. In my mind, as I watched this classic movie with my son, I thought how true and smiled to myself that I received a seed of wisdom from childrens movie that was 45 years old.

Elizabeth Conley

Toughguy (Southern Man),

I have no idea how you got through Old Yeller. Nobody in our house could have done it without bawling their eyes out. If you can make it through that, you can survive anything life throws at you.


Ox Drover

Dear Elizabeth,

I’ve never gotten through Bambi, or even a half hour Lassie show without bawling my eyes out. LOL “The Yearling” always makes me blubber too, for hours. LOL I can’t even put “The Grapes of WRath” into the player before I start crying! In spite of being willing to put down an animal if I have to or need to, I’m a complete softie for sentimental movies and sentimental stories.

But you are right Southernman, there are lessons to be learned in some of these old movies and old stories. They never get old, they are “timeless” lessons.

Oh, and “Where the Red Ferm Grows” is another one of my favorite “popcorn and Kleenex” movies.



I’m no tough guy, but I buried my wife, raising my son alone now for the past 6 years, saw my business flounder in the worst housing slump in 30 years, and I got bitten by a sociopath, yet….. I survived and I have a thankful heart.

I invite you to view a video I made for one of my blogs on Myspace. It is a healing video. I think it turned out rather well.

“But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”
“Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me.That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.” 2 Corinthians 12:9-10


This was a good post. I am still in the educating stage, I think. I’m a lot like Oxdrover right now. I tend to prefer the company of my 2 dogs over people right now. 3 of my 4 kids want me to get rid of my dogs, & start getting out more. They JUST DON’T GET IT! I don’t trust anyone whom I perceive can hurt me, which includes them. My youngest daughter who is in college, needed some money last month. I sent her $300 , knowing I would be broke. My reward for helping her w/out question. was for her to criticize my house, my life, & me in general. My heart is still freshly scarred from the ex s. I really don’t think I can take anymore. Reading & posting here helps me get thru my day. I thought I had processed my pain w/ my therapist. I don’t think so now. I was in bad shape this weekend. I am in a new job w/no insurance.yet, so my depression med. cost comes out of my pocket. I have been trying to stretch out my meds, & skip some days to make it last. I went into full blown withdrawal sat. nite-the shakes, so dizzy I couldn’t stand up,etc. Then daughter calls-“did u go out for coffee w/friends yet, did you get rid of the dogs?” Sometimes I wonder if I will ever heal. I want to be the old me, but I can’t find my way back home.

OMG Southernman:
That video was so great. I cried. I really did.


Pray ask and you shall recieve knock and the door will be opened! He is who is suporting you right this very second! Trust in Him! You are not alone !
Tell the Daughter if she cannot support you that she should just keep her opinion to her self and Shut the Fudge UP! Be BLUNT She don’t get it so tell her she can support her self! Get a friggin Life winch! Be Blunt take Charge If you don’t she is going to walk all over you as she has been doing Please! Don’t take abuse from anyone at all Period! LOVE JJ


I was reading an article today that had a quote, attributed to the Talmud and it is simple, direct, and profound: “We do not see things as they are; we see them as we are.”


WOW! AWSOME! EXCELENT! Worthy! Inspired! LOYAL! DEVOTED! LOVE! Faith,hope and Love and the Greatest of these is LOVE! THANK YOU JJ

Hi sstiles54:

I know how you feel. I so want to feel normal again. The way I used to feel 2 1/2 years ago before I met the sociopath. For the 1st 6 mos when the relationship was new I fell madly in love. Over the next year, he slowly changed me…or should I say I allowed him to change me. When all was said and done, I definitely was not me anymore. My soul was empty, I couldn’t sleep. I would wake up 1, 2, 3 am sometimes vomiting…no joke. This man who promised to love me for the rest of my life had used me for a place to live and took all my money and almost got away with my car and 1/2 my home. .all the while he had another woman right in town…in the shadows…just waiting in the wings. Everyone knew about her…his son, the school, people where we shopped. I felt like the village idiot. He and the OW had planned everything. He was going to leave me for her this past June, as soon as his son finished the school year. So there he was, taking her out in the car I paid for, his son covering for him, sometimes leaving his son with me to babysit while he went out on dates telling me he was going out with his guy friend. He quit his job in Feb leaving me to pay all the expenses up to the very end. It sickens me to know the OW was in on the plan and didn’t give a flying sh.. about me either. Unbelieveable. Now I sit here thinking how happy they are together …gloating that their plot worked like a charm. I keep asking what I did to deserve such treatment. I keep trying to let it go but it still stings. All the abuse turned me into someone unrecognizeable. I am slowly recovering. It’s been 7 months. It took me 5 entire months to get him to sign off the deed papers to my condo back into my name. I even had to blackmail him to do so. I feel so stupid. It was a big red flag when he asked me to put his name on the deed. That was an extreme request. But I did it because we were engaged and wanted him to feel like the place was both ours ..I wanted to share my life with him so I thought it was fine. Little did I know the underlying plan.

I’m very cautious going out on dates now. I still don’t feel right but I am pushing myself out the door…it beats sitting home feeling sorry for myself. I’m watching to make sure the guys I date are paying for meals, etc. I’m telling you…one red flag and I’m outta there!


Didn’t you cry?


sstiles54 – I don’t think you want to be the old you. Yes I was lost and all I wanted was to find the old me again – where did I go? Well it is the old me that got shit on all the time. I am working on the new me – learning from my mistakes – changing pattern’s – defining boundaries….Let’s not look for the old us – we were to comfortable and vulnerable back then. A new us !!!! Hang in there sstiles and give yer poochie’s a kiss for me and I think you need to have a talk with your daughter!!!~~!!


Elizabeth Conley: Good NEWS for You. Tonight on Larry King Live …. his guests were Joel and Victoria Osteen. Both said that NEW attendances to the churches are at an all time high.

They said that during crisis times, people question and want to find relief …. they also spoke about horrific situations in life … it either makes you stronger or … you can make yourself bitter.



Trust again? The thing is I have never completely trusted anyone to begin with. That was probably my saving grace and why the relationship with the P only lasted a few months. This is not the first time a man has hurt me, and believe it or not, it’s not the worst. Every time I get hurt, it scars me a little bit, even though I seem to move on with my life. I honestly don’t know if I will ever find a man patient enough to teach me that it’s okay to trust. Heck I can’t even LIKE men right now, never mind trust one! I feel so envious of happily married women with wonderful husbands who love and adore them. I feel like there is something wrong with me that I can’t find that, too. It’s like I’m a defective model or something. I mean, I know my stepfather abused me, and my bio father abandoned me. But somewhere in my psyche, can’t I even IMAGINE what it would be like to be loved by a man? Apparently I can’t. At least I’ve learned what is not love. Lust is not love. Got that loud and clear this time around. But when you take that away (as my looks are fading anyway) I don’t even remember what is left. I don’t even know what trust means, because I’ve never had anyone in my life I could really trust.


StarG: That’s because you are looking at yourself from your human eye…. it’s when you learn to see yourself with your spiritual eye is when you will see the beauty of the world.

You’ve got your health? Correct?

You’ve got your mind and your creativity? Correct?

Those are two great, great gifts to have! The rest we can build on your shattered self esteem. The shattered self esteem is the human part … that we’ve been talking about is superficial and has a time limit to it’s expiration date (0-100 and something years old). It’s your spiritual part of your soul that will make you come alive.



Yes, Wini, it is my spirit that has kept me alive and even vibrant through all of this. I have my intelligence, creativity, and DAMN, my sense of humor just won’t die. These are my greatest qualities, and I know they will help me overcome. But sometimes I wonder what it would be like to experience that sense of close biological human family that others experience. That’s something I will never have.


StarG: What you are seeing in the last 40-50 years is the collapse of believers in our Holy Father. Therefore, I personally don’t know that there are many married couples that are truly happy and believe what the Bible teaches. I know a few, but not many … most couples cheat on each other … then pretend for their children’s sake (whatever that means, I think it’s an excuse they use because their marriages are convenient for them) … but … to truly love each other and care about each other … I DON’T THINK SO.

I think there are more people like us … except they like to keep their heads in the sand … and not rock their world by walking out of their lousy marriages.

Hey, and I’m not a pessimist … I’m just calling it like I see it. I’d love to tell the wives that think they have such great husbands how their husbands have hit on me over and over again through the years … then, I wouldn’t be friends with them anymore, would I? They’d kick me to the curb than allow their bubbles to burst. I have told really close friends … and eventually they divorced … but it was when they were ready.



Well, while I believe there are other expressions of spirituality besides Christianity, I do agree with you about the erosion of marriages and families due to lack of spirituality in people’s lives. And being an ex-stripper, I can attest the the numbers of so-called happily married men trying to cheat on their wives. I say “trying” because until I met my P recently, I never slept with a married man. They only tried with me.




I remember my Sociopath telling me that he wore many different hats! These evil people know exactly what they are doing. Even though it has been 2 months since I told him to go after he threw a rage, he has phoned a friend of mine who happened to be sitting with me at the time, full of anger and saying how he wants me to suffer and making threats, he has also been phoning the police regularly about me saying that I’m ringing and texting him constantly and that I am compulsive obsessive! I phoned the police and put them straight!

Because we are not medically qualified to speak of personality disorders, we have to tread a fine line, it is very frustrating to say the least!

Elizabeth Conley


I like what you wrote:

“Well it is the old me that got shit on all the time. I am working on the new me – learning from my mistakes – changing pattern’s – defining boundaries”.Let’s not look for the old us – we were to comfortable and vulnerable back then.”

You’re dead right. We can bounce back and be happier and healthier. We gave too much, we trusted too quickly, and we accepted to much belittling, negating treatment and outright abuse. We can do better in the future.

Elizabeth Conley

Ox Drover,

The Green Mile always does me in.

Mostly I stick to comedies and action adventure stories, ’cause “Girls just wanna have fun”.


Perhaps trust is overrated.. One of those “virtues” that the P/S/N/s can smell like a shark smells blood in the water. Is it really necessary to “trust completely”?

Modern marriage and co-habitation laws bring the whole thing down to a business contract, coldly splitting whatever regardless of who did what to whom. No fault.

If as and when I begin a new relationship I plan to enjoy, but not trust. I think an iron clad pre-nup or co-habitation contract is a good idea. It replaces trust in terms of financial matters and allows the parties to demonstrate their sincereity with no ulterior or second agenda in the works.

“If you really loved me you would trust me” has left a lot of shattered victims in its wake. When it comes to matters of fidelity, of course there is no piece of paper that can protect a person from abuse on that end. But as for all the rest I say why go there? Be independant financially, legally, on paper.

I would have scoffed at this many years ago, but had I had that advice perhaps not be as vulnerable, actually up the creek withut a paddle as I am now. My lawyer says I could write the book on why not to trust your husband when it comes to signing documents. Tempting time waster. The working title could be “Marriage for Dummies”.


oh Lord….TRUST… It has been seven months now since the S-meltdown, the horrible devalue/discard nightmare. Trust was the first thing I lost, in amounts immeasurable. Seven months later, is it back? I don’t know exactly. But instead of trust I have been operating on faith. Not a faith in others or of myself but of a higher power. Faith that I am healing, faith that I have learned a new set of values and that these will help me.

We go through these stages I think… trust may have been the first thing robbed of us, it may take the longest to restore. But the idea of faith intervening, of allowing a force greater than ourselves to help direct us seems to me to be the way out of the mental turmoil.

So each day, I do what I can to live in a more humble state, grateful for the small things I have. I lost my S “dream lover” seven months ago. I lost my “dream job” two weeks ago. Do I still feel victimized? Less and less actually. I have been shaken to my core and in this process I have discovered my inner strengths, my creativity, my ability to endure and grow.

My values are changing, my faith is deepening and is and remains my foundation. I have begun to date again. A short while ago, I met a man close to my age, (in person this time, not “on line”) who is kind, compassionate, caring, loving. There is no inflated ego at work here, neither of us are trying to prove anything. It isn’t all about escape and sex. No “pity ploys”, no manipulating, no impulsive “gifts”, no idolizing, instead it feels like peace between two individuals, both of whom perhaps have been tempered somewhat by life but who are both willing to share and give.

Having had so much taken from me, I was, in effect, liberated. I am free now. I was able to allow myself to feel free from trying to love a sociopath, and, just recently, free from working for a sociopath! Free to enjoy my new understanding of my past blindness and how this new knowledge will only serve to help me become happier.

I am feeling this happiness at times, (if not overwhelming happiness, it is at least a change from despair and the long period of grief!) despite all that was taken from me this year. I have a new person in my life who shares love with me. It is simple in this respect. I am able to experience his kindness in faith, not with any great measure of trust at the moment, but with simple, unassuming faith.

Perhaps in time, trust will find its place. For now, instead of carrying so much hurt, I feel God is close by and extending His love for me, a pathway He has set in front of me that I may choose to follow, in faith. Faith has very little time for feeling hurt anymore.



Trust GOD love mankind!
I think Yall Got it! :)~ LOVE JJ


Dear Elizabeth Conley – Thank’s – I think it is important that we learn from this, that we look back on our lives and see what it is that made us accept such bad behavior from other. i n my case my Narcississt mother is the root of my conditioning to live my life to please other’s regardless of how they abused me. It was the relationship with my X that brought me down and made me realize I had to change and treat myself better, no longer will I be a doormat for anyone. You mention Cluster B in some of your post. After months of reading talking to therapist – physciatrist – I have diagnosed my X BF as a cluster B. He is a sociopath for sure but the Cluster B is so pityful and so very evil and they have no idea what they are.

Elizabeth Conley

Well Henry,

I’m kinda in the same boat, only I can’t blame my parents. They’re good people, and super nice. They tend to get trampled too. My sister is the same way. I think sometimes it’s just a culture clash. Y’know those two cartoon chipmunks, Chip and Dale? Each always deferring to the other was part of the comedy routine. When people pleasers mix with people users, it’s no longer funny. Personally, I’m trying to stay decent but not be a total doormat any more.


Henry & Elizabeth: The way I look at all that’s happened to all of us … is that we lived our lives properly, the way God wants us to … we just loved to love … not having any ulterior motives behind it … and the others did wrong, hence why we are all blogging. Don’t beat yourselves up so much, there have always been TAKERS throughout history … it’s how we keep peace, love, harmony and the rest of God’s virtues in tack after we encounter the selfish likes of them is what counts.



I Love that Review sept I always gota dress like a woman and wear makeup! :)~ LOVE JJ


Wini, you said it so well just now, thank you. (I still have this need to spill so many words when it comes to this whole subject.)



What is Cluster B?

I heard of Clustertuck! :)~

Elizabeth Conley


Cluster B (dramatic, emotional, or erratic disorders)

Antisocial personality disorder: “pervasive disregard for the law and the rights of others.”

Borderline personality disorder: extreme “black and white” thinking, instability in relationships, self-image, identity and behavior

Histrionic personality disorder: “pervasive attention-seeking behavior including inappropriate sexual seductiveness and shallow or exaggerated emotions

Narcissistic personality disorder: “a pervasive pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, and a lack of empathy”

I say “cluster B” because it covers the laundry list of personality types that can really rock your world. Like Histrionic – it doesn’t sound serious, but it is. Histrionics often slander people. They do this because they genuinely feel they’ve been abused, but their lack of malice doesn’t mitigate the damage. Borderline and Narcissistic don’t sound bad either, ’til you tangle with ’em. The anti-social personality disorder is your P and/or S.


Well Elizabeth, now I know what to call the place I worked … A CLUSTER B building. (LOL).


did you see Opra today and did you see the OCD with dr. OZ
Remember I don’t CRY! :)~ so don’t ask me if I did’nt!
Awsome! Awsome! Excelent! Opra for Presidente! Ole! :)~


My Psyco fits all of the above 110 0/0

similar to devideing 1 =1/2 +1/2 or3rds or 4ths or 5ths Oh Star I need that Card # and Pin I need a Fith and some Smokes ! Pronto!


Indi: I saw some of it … then turned on another channel … most of these idiots cause their own insecurities and hardships just by never opening the Bible and reading to build their own self esteem.

I don’t know if you know this … but their is the reverse narcissist out there. They are narcissists believing in their own big egos … but it’s reversed on them and they have some of their weirdest conditions going on.

Don’t write me anyone else on this blogg with the mental health definitions and statistics on this folks … I already read them…. they still need to get off their duffs and read the Bible.



Henry- you’re so right! I don’t want to be the uneducated old me, maybe I miss the smile that used to come so easy for me. I am definitely navigating now with full radar on all the time. U R very perceptive! Thanks!

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