By | June 4, 2009 180 Comments

Aging out of sociopathy?

Research has suggested that some sociopaths may experience something like “sociopathic burnout,” characterized by a reduction in their antisocial behavioral output as they move through middle and older age. (This is a type of decline in production to be glad for.)

What this does not mean is that sociopaths “outgrow” their sociopathic orientation, anymore than a career thief outgrows his thief’s mentality.

“Sociopathic burn-out,” let me stress, is not to be mistaken for something as chimerical (and unrealistic) as the sociopath’s “personal growth.” One might be tempted to regard the aging sociopath’s “mellowing” as a signal of his perhaps, finally, “growing up;” of his acquiring perhaps, finally, a more mature grasp of his priorities; of his having learned, perhaps at long last, finally to appreciate and value his blessings (including you).

Don’t be deceived. The aging sociopath’s “mellowing” will have nothing to do with a maturation, genuine repentance or self-discovery process. In the end, it will be about “burnout,” and nothing more.

And “burnout” really isn’t so complicated. We all burn-out. All of us, as we age, lose energy, requiring, over time, that we grow more selective in the allocation of our decreasing energy reserves.

Accordingly, we might find ourselves, gradually, apportioning less of our energy to activities and behaviors that failed to tax us in our younger, indefatigable days.

And let’s not kid ourselves: The life of the exploiter is energy-draining. It may take a sociopath to chronically exploit others unconscionably, but it also takes a considerable toll of energy.

And so the sociopath, whose energy is as finite as yours, tires. As he moves past his prime, he finds that his shenanigans now come with a cost, a price, just as, at 40, or 50, you find that recovering from a bender isn’t as easy, as painless, as when you were 20, or 25.

Like the veteran Hollywood stunt man, the aging sociopath finds he can no longer pull off stunt after stunt without confronting an emerging reality: the satisfaction he gets from his outrageous stunts no longer necessarily (after all these years) supercedes the cost to himself, which grows bit by bit as he “ages” not out of his shallowness and lovelessness, but his energy.

The sociopath, in other words, hasn’t been humanized by age, merely depleted by age of the energy levels necessary to sustain his flagrant, sociopathic machinations.

And so, sadly, the aging sociopath will not, finally, come to love or genuinely respect you; he will not “evolve” a true, belated appreciation of everything you promised him that he foully besmirched in his previous immaturity.

Rather, increasingly fatigued and/or dependent, he will only value, as always and now perhaps more than ever, the convenience (if he’s lucky) that your companionship affords him in his now “mellower,” but really just more tired, incarnation.

(My use of “he” in this post and others is merely a convenience, and not meant to suggest that males have a patent on sociopathy. This article is copyrighted (c) 2009 by Steve Becker, LCSW. Thanks to TC for inspiring it.)

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Elizabeth Conley

“Rather, increasingly fatigued and/or dependent, he will only value, as always and now perhaps more than ever, the convenience (if he’s lucky) that your companionship affords him in his now “mellower,” but really just more tired, incarnation.”

Darn you’re good Steve!

Seriously, this is so true. The sociopath I went no-contact with is living a parasitic lifestyle, feeding off his very sweet ex-wife and her daughters. The woman is one of the kindest, gentlest souls on the planet.

He’s abused her and her children numerous times, both physically and emotionally. He’s done awful things, but he almost behaves himself now, at least in her home. She lets him stay, in part because I don’t think she understands the harm he continues to do to her children and grandchildren.

He’s very devious, and really good at subtle forms of emotional abuse. He’s a tireless manipulator of perceptions and emotions.

Much of the drama in that household comes from him, and the shenanigans of one of her grandsons. Although very young and not related to the Sociopath by blood, the little boy is unusually toxic. The women in this family are all cut from the same cloth, and simply don’t understand when they’re being played.

The Sociopath is still very toxic, but he avoids inconvenient consequences like being booted out on his backside. Finding a new crash pad is too exhausting for him these days.

Boy am I glad I’m not one of his enablers any more.

Like I said, “Steve, you’re good!”

Ox Drover


A good vision to point this out, their “improvement” is simply on the OUTSIDE…

At 62 I have lost energy even for things I love to do that are more physically taxing, just lost my “umph!” A “great night” now is not going out, but staying home, feet up, with a good book or a DVD!



He had often said he was growing tired of the pace he was at – felt he had already worked enough hours for anyone’s lifetime. He wanted to put a business together that he could “manage” without all the work involved in construction. And so he has accomplishged that – but I think he will grow tired of this new business eventually because it will put its own demands on him and become too routine . Every time he fulfills some dream he has – he seems to grow weary of it – motorcycles, a new job, homes and women . Anything or anyone that requires maintanance falls by the wayside.

He brought a friend up from So Carolina to manage his new business and get it off the ground. He does not like to be ALONE in anything he does. So this friend bought into the dream and took on the management job. Now, only a few months later – his job has been terminated. Why??? Because he made the mistake of leaving for a week to attend his daughter’s graduation and the “BOSS” decides he can do without him – can’t really afford to pay him. Longtime friend is on his way back to So Carolina – having fulfilled his short term part in the drama.

There seems to be no reflection on my husband’s side – he doesn’t see he brought this guy into a new project and letting him go will have an impact on his life and well being.

He doesn’t seem SORRY it turned out this way – maybe he has said the words to him – I don’t know – but I don’t think he feels it – anymore than laying off the guys from his construction business.

I see the same behaviors with me – he still expects accomodations, flexibility to HIS schedule . Frankly, he doesn’t even understand or want to deal with my anger for all he has done and CONTINUES to do.

So, Steve, you have tapped into my fear that this time – with HER – he will mellow and be more of his sweet side. That he will grow weary of his affairs and NEED to settle with the ONE woman he has sought for years. His cheating days will be over and he will be glad to have a good woman at his side.

And I will have missed the future – the one we were supposed to be building together. You see, he has gone on to build “OUR” dream business – but he has done it without me.

It has not been easy to sit back and hear everyone praise him for what he has accomplished – all the while unaware OR ignoring what he took from me and the kids to do it.

I believe what you say here – that his internal self will never change . I just have to remind myself all the time.

And then , proof comes along and gives me some feeling of release.

You know he is with the “woman of his dreams” as he says for the last year – but his latest records prove he is still searching – he’s on a new adult web-site for the past year also. So I guess he hasn’t run out of energy quite yet – and I want to believe he never will. I want to believe he’ll find no peace in someone elses arms.


Let me be blunt again. My X thinks his penis is his ticket to the world. When that peter’s out he will be in trouble because his face and personality aint that grand….

Ox Drover

Dear Newlife,

They NEVER find what WE HAVE (the ability to feel love, and to give love) I think they KNOW we have SOMETHING that we enjoy and that gives us pleasure, but they DO NOT KNOW WHAT IT IS, and they keep going from person to person, new person to new person, looking for THAT SOMETHING and they never find it. At first the excitement of a new relationship makes them think they do, but IT NEVER LASTS and they get dissatisfied because it isn’t as good as they hoped it would be, it isn’t satisfying.

Sugar, you do NOT have to worry that he will be “truly happy” or truly “satisfied” because HE CAN NEVER BE. Sex for them is like two dogs coupling, it feels good while you are doing it but it is never EVER anything more than “animal sexual pleasure.” For US sex is “a bonding ritual between two people who (supposedly) love one another,” but NEVER for them, all they get is the PHYSICAL pleasure for a few minutes (on seconds) but never satisfaction.

What a WASTE they are!


My mom I thought had gotten better, but in the end, just after her funeral, I found a very vial note she had left for me and some monetary shocks. Was telling lies to the doctor on the last visit she had. I don’t feel anger much anymore, just incredible sadness for the impact her disorder had on her, my dad, the children, and their children. And a sense of wonder of how I managed to find her “twin” as my first boyfriend at age 15. Scary!


Thank you Steve, for your very timely post! It is as you say, unfortunately; they never change, and they never learn a bit! I am unfortunately witness to the aging but not maturing of my dad.

My father turns 80 next year, and my sister has even had him tested for dementia because of his strange habit of losing all the money my parents have been accumulating during their productive lives (my father was a very successful lawyer), and my mother rightfully fears poverty! He seems to do it deliberately, like gambling with it, as there is nothing “wrong” with his mental ability as far as you can test a charming witty old little sweet con man with tests for dementia in a memory clinic. He SEEMS mellow, but he is pure old strong condensed VINEGAR.

It is all his “Monopoly money”, and my mother had countless times to cover up his stupid and reckless decisions and bail him out of difficult situations that were right away illegal and would have brought my father into disgrace if not prison if found out, at 76, an age other people play Bridge or do gardening or Golf along.
He has not ceased to be dangerous, and we all are very wary about him. It is so sad to watch them and their downfalling.

I can’t help them besides coaching my mom to be strong not enabling him any longer. So long it seems to work, but my father deteriorates more and more, his two cars look like from “rent-a-wreck”, his clothing is awful, and he does not groom anymore (as he does not recieve any money from mom, and they have split accounts, due to his countless affairs and prior fiscal irregularities).
Yet he has at least two girlfriends we know of who do “things” for him. He calls them his “cheese breads”. The longer I write the angrier I get. I have to apologize for ranting!

New life, just wait, he will end miserably as he will be recognized by what he is in the end. Just a pathetic wannabe.


hi all,
haven’t been on LF in a very long time, but yesterday was my birthday — my first without the spath — and while doing well previously at NC for 10 months now, i just completely fell apart. crying, weeping, pity-partying for two days now. believing everything the bastard ever told me in the end — after 20+ years — including that no one else would ever want me. gained 40 lbs in these 10 months, look like crap, and am — i realize today — still full of self-doubt, self-loathing, and dead from the waist down.
meantime, spath-hole is playing house with his new gf and their new baby, and still with his wife and two kids as well. one big happy family, so i hear.
not sorry i threw him out nor that i haven’t spoken to him in 10 months. hate him, hope he dies a horrible, painful death.
yet, even though i barely give him a second thought most of the time, here i am crying buckets over how played i got, how insanely cruel he could be to me after so many years of my loyalty and love, and how i am still not okay.
steve, your post was perfect, and exactly what i needed to read. i have terrible fantasies that he is delightfully happy now, and his wife and gf are being loved by him, all the kids growing up peacefully together. thinking that he is so happily rid of me, and being so loving and doting toward them. i dunno. it’s all so sick.
last year on my birthday, he was already deceiving me and she was already pregnant. he promised to be with me (‘i’d never diss you on your birthday!’) then made me wait three hours, coming over at 9 p.m. and telling me he was too tired to ‘be’ with me. it was the last holiday he would ruin … two months later he was tossed out when he finally confessed. so yesterday on my birthday, all the pain flooded back into my heart. it still hurts so bad. all i can think is ‘how COULD he!’ i’m furious, hateful. he told me that his new gf would be ‘the last’ because he wants to ‘really settle down this time.’
but your words were healing anyway, steve. somehow, the thoughts that he is loving her (either one) the way i always wanted him to love me (and thought he did) … deeply, authentically, with good will and loyalty … is the hardest thing for me to get past in all of this. i was shit. they are great. he made the right choice, and is happily rid of me regardless of the huge place i held in his life for so long.
but reading that ”he hasn’t been humanized by age” is strangely comforting. i want him to stay sick. if not, it means that i truly am worthless. that he was cruel to me because i deserved it somehow.
tomorrow i will feel better. there are no more ruined holidays to remember. perhaps i am free.


Happy Birthday LostinGrief – Now am I getting this right? he has a wife AND a girlfriend that are loving him at the same time? Do they know about each other? That does not sound healthy to me. I am so sorry you are beating your self up and having a bad time with memorys on your birthday. My xspath ruined so many birthdays and holidays – I think you and I traded stories about that. On another thread someone was saying the biggest thing to grasp about the Xspath was the unhumaness or was it inhumaness. I think some of us will always suffer with that. How we were so blind and needy and then left like a pile a dog poop. But remember this, most of us kicked them to the curb ourselves in order to live, not knowing what a hard lesson we were about to undertake. LIG – twenty years is a big chunck of your life but you were not the lie – dont try to undo the love you felt for him, it was real – you are real – go ahead and have your pity party but get back up and keep on truckin – no tellin what is waiting around the corner for you – or me – yeah I wouldnt cross the road to piss on my x if he was on fire.. HAPPY BIRTHDAY~~~!!


henry, my dear, how are you?
thanks for the chuckle at the end there, and thanks for the b’day wishes.
yes, he had to tell his wife about the gf because of the baby. she stayed with him anyway. everyone fights over this jerkoff. not me. i’m free and clear.
my love was very real, and yes, i’m real too. but so damaged. every time i think i’m really doing good, i fall … or look in the mirror and see all that he took from me. my money, my life, my love, my faith.
trying to get it back is a chore. but i’m proud of 10 months NC. he calls every three months or so. i never answer the phone. last he left a message, he was ”inviting you to my baby shower … you should be there because, you know, why shouldn’t you?”
oy vey.


LIG sorry I missed you – I was outside giving blood to the mosqitos… I am much better than 14 months ago. But like you I am changed for ever and keep telling myself better than before. It’s kinda like a kid believeing in santa and then ya find out everybody was lying. Yes my X was 12 years younger and I remember thinking I must be really hot to catch such a hot younger man…damn those illusions just keep kicking us in the head~~~!!! What? ya mean I aint all that hot no more? Thats life – we cant avoid it – we will fall over dead someday – so why in the crap do we have to take life so seriously?? I am workin on that…So he invited you to the baby shower – and I bet he really thot he was doing you a big favor…sheesh – sometimes I think being brainless and heartless is better…….the dumb fucks – karma will get them LIG – I am happy you are stickin to NC – its all screwed up, that (nc) is our only weapon, only revenge…keeping away the person that is on our minds so much – go figure~! I am going back out to feed the little vampires – at least the bite is felt instantly from a mosquito –

Ox Drover

Dear LIG,

Welcome back, I’m sorry it is because you are hurting, but glad you are here. I’m glad you are still NC, because you ARE healing, and every once in a while you will have one of your “flash backs” and a pity party! But as you STAY ON THE ROAD TO HEALING, they will get fewer and farther between. I know it is a trite saying but “IT DOES TAKE TIME” and more time than we wish it did, because it has been a BIG TRAUMA, not a freaking hang nail! This was an OPEN HEART SURGERY without the being put to sleep, done with a dull butcher knife while we were wide awake. Of cours eit hurts, it is SORE, RAW and painful, but hang in there LIG, Hey, if Henry can get better, Anyone CAN! ((((hugs Henry)))) Love to you both, Oxy!


Aging out of sociopathy?

How and what happens as a sociopath/personality ages is a subject I myself is very interested in. Thank you for your insight.

Having worked in the heath field the aging process in people it’s self is interesting and offers great insight in how people coup with age. I witness both sides that some people age with grace and class accepting age with an understanding that it’s all part of life’s/God’s plan. In short we live to die but in-between we learn and grow emotionally psychologically spiritually and mentally. We learned not to waste our precious time fearing death and age but instead live to live and when it’s time too accept death with open arms knowing how blessed we are just to have this chance to live. This chance to love marry and sometimes be blessed with children.

Then there are others that “fear” death. They will fight age with their last breath. They will deny death and live there last days in remembrance of their days of youth or what some call “the good old days”. They tell others how life is “unfair” and Gods’ plan a lie. They curse the next generation and see only gloom and doom. They reminisce how others treated them unfairly and what a poor victim they are. Because as we age we become more depended on others, these people will try to extend more control on other’s not less. Of course they use “old tricks” like the pity play guilt and try to shame them into desired behavior. But this often only pushes those left alive further away from them not closer.

Now I am not saying the latter is a s/p. This is just about how some of us live and die. I often wonder about those that fear death and try to hide from it or deny it. I often wonder what it is they are really hiding from and what is it they are really denying? I guess my question to that person who fears death would be “what is it you are so afraid of?” Many might reply “the unknown”. But for me anyway the “unknown” might hold more wonders then even this life ever did. For who knows? It might be the beginning not the end? All I know is that someday I will get the chance to find out.


…Death, I am not afraid of it at all, I dont want to be a burden to anyone, I dont want to linger in pain…death seems to me like a long sleep – what is on the other side? I hope something – there has to be – the possibilities are endless – maybe we all get our very own planet or maybe we will be the wind and eternally caress and explore this planet…



What an exhausting way to live. That was the only thought I had when I got a call a couple of weeks back from a law firm suing him for defaulting on yet another credit card. I think this is the 16th time S is being sued for defaulting on a financial obligation.

S is now 40, fat and flacid. His days of being a boy toy are over. The days of easy credit are gone. He’s an ex-con who is about to be thrown out on the street (again). Maybe he’ll find somebody to pay his freight, but he doesn’t have a lot to bring to the party anymore.

I’m under no illusions about S. He may be “aging out” in that his health is failing and his ability to meet his basic survival needs is severely compromised. But, I am not wasting a drop of sympathy for him. He has created this mess. He will continue to make a mess. As a matter in fact, if he could find a way to bleed me some more, he would do it in a heartbeat.

My only goal is to see that he ends up back in prison and is no longer a threat to the general population. Every time I send another of the judgment creditors in his direction, letting them know where he lives and where he works so they can garnish his wages, I know I’ve pushed him a step closer to screwing up and being sent back to the iron bar hotel. He can age out to his heart’s content in a cell.

Exhausting. What a way to live.


F&F: Fat & Flacid.

A lot of them seem to end up in this condition. We may be uncovering some type of syndrome here.


It is especially surprising to see such flacidness since a lot of them were such beautiful physical specimens in their “prime”.


Age out and mellowing like old piss to quote I believe slimone from another thread. LIG, Glad to see you back, happy late B-day wishes, sorry you felt the sting of pain again. I’m having a bad day. I saw my lawyer this morning and learned that criminal or civil if the restraining order sticks, my license is gone for nursing. Great no fear in my heart now! She stated that there is not enough in the complaint to warrant it ever having been granted, but that now that it is in place most judges don’t like to reverse them. Err on the side of caution support the other judge mentality. She will try to bring up his criminal past and his extensive psych history, and fraud concerning SSI, medicaid for his child who is still on my insurance, etc. But I did make nasty calls to him all on voice mail where I vented and called him names and that is in my state considered domestic violence. So if he kept the calls, I believe he would have. I believe this whole game, new girlfriend and all was a ploy to upset me, bait me, and get what he wanted which was to destroy my life. Paranoid? maybe, but I know from conversations about his other exs that his hatred never dies. That he believes all women need to be punished. Him loving the new GF. Nope! No fear of that plus he confirms that he never has felt anything for anyone and doesn’t care what anyone wants or how anyone feels. He doesn’t have to. His child is property, his gf a tool to use and to toy with. Once she falls in love, he will be done and gone. That is his new strat. No more marriage after 5 failed ones. Now just get them to love you and then you devalue, discard, delete, rinse, repeat. As to his aging, he is bald, has gained himself a lovely pot bellied gut, his penis is only about 4 inches and usually limp, and when it’s not, his bedroom skills are still lacking but he always has a woman and one in the wings, so I guess his pity ploy is still amazing and his charm and love bombs out of this world. Or we are all just blind and stupid, as the case may be. The stress has my heart rate over 155 all day today and yesterday. Started a new med today. Please keep me in your prayers. Court is Tuesday and I still fear not only for my family and my future as a nurse, but also for the innocent child he thinks of as merely property to use, abuse, and control.


Amen Rosa to both your comments! Maybe God does have a sense of humor about them and takes away a few toys for their pleasure chest. LOL!


I would even go out on a limb and say that S’s are arrogant about their own looks and critical of everyone else’s when they are in their “prime” and their con games are all going as planned.

Right on Joy. I am sensing a little nugget of “justice”, after all.





You are back!!! Missed you posting.

Hope you are OK !!!


Steve Becker/
New Life
Steve Becker said
“You are an expert yourself on this subject. He will never give anyone else, not from genuine depth, what he couldn’t give you. He may say he can, or is, or will, convincingly, and with contempt to rub it in”.and he may believe it. But that doesn’t make it true, it doesn’t make what’s impossible for him to give (from genuine depth) possible”

Its been almost a year for me now, since I was told that he “was not in love with me” and I was also told that he found a new person who he “loves”. I wish I could truly believe that he did (or will do) the same with her. Although tempted (I know who she is), I have not contacted her to ask what is going on/ or to warn her. Partly, I think, because I still believe that he really meant that he dumped me because he didn’t love me and really loves her- as you say they can be very convincing. It was months after he told me that stuff before someone clued me in on the liklihood that he is a sp and I started reading books and this blog. Even though he fits almost every description of an sp I have read, it is still so hard to believe that this person who was so so nice to me for 18 mos was lying all along.

I think this week is especially hard for me because it is the one year anniversary of an awesome (at least for me) weekend trip we took to Cleveland last June. We went to a car show that he goes to every year and he led me to believe this would be an annual event for us. But- he was already chasing this new woman when we went on the trip and dumped me six weeks later.

So all that to say, Newlife, that I know exactly how you feel.


Hi All,

Steve: thank-you for this article! I felt so happy when I read it because for me it was a reminder of how I have CHOICES. I don’t have to, like the PD’d, run myself into the existential ground by my self-defeating, automated behaviors.

I possess the possibility of deep wisdom, health, fierceness, growing courage, acceptance, and actualization– with light shining– comfortable in my own skin.

I work with a (mostly) aging (and dying) population. So many of them amaze me with their grace and acceptance and good humor. I also run into the PD’d at the end of their days. Most are alone, with guardians–because family has had enough of them. Many are ‘demented’, with family telling me they always did live in their own private world, with zero consideration for others.

For s/n/p’s it looks like there is going to be no light, no sinking into the grace that can come with experience. No connections that deepen over time. No love. Just profound isolation.

That seems fair to me.



I understand the difficult days and memories. It’s been a year also for me since he left. Today has been difficult – maybe because of the rain, or it’s Friday night or the steriods I have to take for poison ivy. Or because I had to swallow my pride and ask to borrow a vehicle so my car could get some repairs done and I need to go to work and transport my kids.

I am sorry you lost 18 months – mine lied probably for most of the 22 years we were together . And the more we get further into the divorce, the more I find out how he lied and cheated and just how disturbed he is. Lies about money, debt, investments, loans, women , paying their bills – it goes on and on. As much as it sucks I sure can’t make any excuses for the hurt little boy anymore.

I excused so much over the years because I was afraid of failng, of losing my family – the dream. But now it may cost me even more because I have fewer years left to work and recover and my kids are still young.

He has engineered it all so I may wind up paying financially also. I have to remind myself every day this is REALITY and I am not going to wake up from a nightmare. What’s gone is gone – but he sure enjoyed himself long the way.



“I have to remind myself every day that this is REALITY and I am not going to wake up from a nightmare.”

I think there’s a lot of truth and strength in that statement. I won’t compare my situation to yours because you were in it a lot longer than me and you have a lot of other considerations. But, the one thing I can pass along to you is this: once all the dust and craziness is settled and you have an exact handle on your finances and living situation, life does get easier.

In my experience, it is the unknown and the uncertainty that is the worst part. You’re still in the phase of what I call “curling up in a ball, covering your ears and waiting for the rest of the ceiling to come crashing down.” Been there and done that. However, once the last of the plaster falls, I can tell you from personal experience, that you will be able to look at the facts in front of you and begin to construct a new life. From what I know of you, you’re a resilient woman. And something tells me that once you have the facts in place and the craziness concluded you will be able to do just that.

Unlike our Ss, we are resilient. Somehow or other we have always managed to do what needs to be done. Hell, you’re doing it right now getting rid of your S. I’m doing it right now dealing with unemployment, the aftermath of the S, and the illness of a N parent. Once you see where things shake out with your S in the settlement you’ll be able to figure out what you have to do to protect and provide for yourself and your kids. And hell, if your S is determined to try to burn you, you’ll just take a flame-thrower to him and turn him into the IRS.



“I can’t make any excuses for the hurt little boy anymore.”

That statement I could also relate to big-time. When I learned S had been released from prison just 3 weeks before I met, I vowed I was going to help him rebuild his life.

What I saw by the time that I drove him off, he had no interest in rebuilding his life or, what would have been a vast improvement in his case, was BUILDING a life. I knocked myself out trying to solve his legal morass and his financial morass and his psychological morass. It wasn’t until the end that a friend of mine pointed out that while I was knocking myself out, he was going along blithely and not lifting a finger to better his situation or help himself.

I heard endless variations on the “my father was a monster” theme. At the end I realized that hurt little boy or no hurt little boy, we ultimately have to suck it up and start acting like adults. He didn’t see that. And now that I’m not there to play daddy or whomever, he’s going to have to do just that.

Thing is, he won’t. When I was driving back to the city with one of my siblings last night he made the comment that he expected S to be back in the criminal justice system soon. I asked him what he meant. He said “he is probably robbing his boss blind. And when his boss figures it out, he will go after him in a huge way. And this time he is going to serve real hard time.”

Since this sibling had never said anything like this before I asked him where this was coming from. He said “everybody saw what you were doing for that ungrateful piece of crap. Everybody saw that he was on drugs. Everybody figured out that once you woke up and walked out, he’d rapidly go downhill. And it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that his best source of riches would be his employer.”

Made me feel a bit stupid everybody saw it except me. However, I’ve also come to realize that if I want a hurt little boy in my life, I’ll adopt an orphan. I don’t ever again want an adult who plays that card. Because end of the day, that hurt little boy will never be there for me when I inevitably end up a hurt adult because of some curve ball life throws me.



So glad to see you back. I get from your post you were away with parents. I give you credit – I had to care for my mother after my dad died in 2001. My two sisters were done with her. I almost let her give me a nervous breakdown trying to please her. It took me 4 years of it to stand up to her and let her start doing things for herself. My dad was a good man but he enabled her out of his own inability to cope with her madness.

She is now 82 and does more for herself now than ever in her life. But she is still all about her – no motherly care to be found in her. And I do feel bad she gets lonely – but she is not nice to be around. My kids spent 2 summers following me from hospital to rehabs – of course husband was nowhere to be found – but it still wasn’t enough. If I missed a weekend and took the kids to the beach she pitched a fit.

SO- bless you for your caring – I don’t know how rough your childhood was but I think mine set me up for my tolerance of my husbands ways. I was used to trying to prove myself worthy of being loved. I NEVER gave a thought to making the other person prove themself worthy of me.




Not sure why I keep losing half a post!!!!


I then started to rant but it must have been Divine intervention that I lost it and you don’t have to deal with it…

So tell me how you have been – you sure were missed….



I think I have had about 6 hours of sleep since I insisted my mother go to the hospital last Friday night. I am so over tired that I can’t sleep. Even ambien isn’t working. I ran back to NYC one night because I had to take care of some business, but I have been back at my parents almost 24/7. My mother survived the surgery and is doing far better than I expected, although there is some post-anesthetic loopiness. Nonetheless, the surgery was major and there is going to be a steep recovery period.

I am engaging in a delicate balancing act. I grew up with a malignant N mother and S father. I am trying to do what I can for them while still protecting myself. My biggest headache is the conman brother who is basically still trying to dump all his problems (ie kids, etc ) in my and my parents’s laps so he can go off and do whatever the hell he wants. At the moment I am trying to get visiting nurses and housekeepers in place because I have to get back to NYC and get back to the job search. But, I see myself running back and forth for at least the next month.

I was thinking about your situation a bit today while I was sitting in the ICU waiting room. You had mentioned that he is trying to saddle you with debt. My gut is telling me that he could be running into financial trouble with the restaurant. Maybe to push him into a settlement faster you need to UP your demands — in this case go for what hurts — tell him you want an interest in the restaurant. Not that you do, but since that seems to be what he prizes more than anything, if you threaten it, that may get him to sing off on the settlement faster. Just a thought.


Gosh, MATT,

I am so very honored that your thoughts would lead to me while dealing with your own situation.

You must have ESP – he had brought up a friend of his from Carolina to manage the place for him. As I predicted – it didn’t last 2 months and friend is headed back home/ Seems there wasn’t enough money to pay the guy.

While you were away there we were granted a temp ORder to Show Cause because he was trying to sell the shore house/
He is stopped for now fron selling off anything. Collection agency called here looking for him – one out of Toronto and they were quite nasty.

So now HE has to be in the place daily and close at night. I don’t see that lasting very long. He CANNOT stay in one place, CANNOT stand to be confined and surely will have less time for the girlfriend and internet.

He has missed visitations already.

You know, MAtt, this is a difficult time of uncertainty. I have many doubts about my abilitiy to withstand the upcoming financial woes, the doubts of did I love the right way , the times I acted angry and withdrew due to his behaviors , the times I refused sex because I felt that was all he needed from me-not my companionship or opinions or needs .

Then I got more financial records this week and of course I have to research what I know to be illegitimate business expenses. And I come across a new sex web-site he is charging – even while he professes his love for the skank next door. I looked up the sight and saw some complaints about their billing procedures which gave me doubts as to whether they were legitamate charges or not. Crazymaking of my own doing – I know.

But given his history I need to believe this is who he is and will never be any different with anyone – no matter how he makes things LOOK!!!

Thanks, again to STEVE!!!

And yes –
I have made a few noises about making a claim to the B-B-que and it does seem to make him nervous.

This is really dragging on and on and on…..



I meant to end by wishing you a peaceful sleep and rest.

Benadryl always helped my dad sleep. Tylenol pm or Sleeptime works for me. And sometimes just a sincere , simple prayer for comfort and sleep works too.

Sweet dreams for you and Bless you for being the one who takes care of those who couldn’t care for us.


Good luck Matt. Remember the emotional insulation. I think that is from Betrayal Bond? Anyway, even when my mom was old and sick and had just a few weeks to live, she was still being a malignant N. It was pretty awful actually, and the more time that passes, the more I realize.

BUT , picturing myself protected by emotional insulation worked. I got through it all, I’m very sorry she is gone, but at the same time, a weight is gone.



I don’t know what to say exactly. I get so moved by so much I read here at LF, and it is impossible to ‘speak’ to everyone. But helping sick/’sick’ aging parents is so taxing. So…. I want to send you a big (((HUG))) and wish you some rest, lots of water, some yummy snacks, and to remember to protect that sweet heart of yours.


Matt: It sure is tough having to take care of someone else, and when it happens overnight it is very stressful, sounds like you are doing a great job, my prayers are with you and your family. I am glad your mother is doing better!


hi ox, joy, matt and all y’all …
thanks for your words of wisdom and support. always plenty of them here on LF.
i’m fine. just a bad couple of days. they pop up now and then.
sometimes, i’m just still gobsmacked when i realize all he took from me. i was bankrupt, sick, shrunk down to nothing … almost dead by the time i realized he had some new gf pregnant!
the healing has been slow. emotionally i’m much better, but physically, i’m still not well. when we got back together 6 years ago, i was so strong, spirited and successful. it seems like 100 years ago. the ‘draining’ that they do is incredible. leeches, ticks, vampire bats.
every time steve posts, my jaw drops all over again.
sadly, i have directed three women to LF since i found it. there are a LOT of sociopaths out there. i think this society breeds them. as a high school teacher, i see the signs in several of my students. they tease and bully, hold court and walk around all pumped up, smooth talk girls and flash money — without a shred of remorse or responsibility. eerie.
joy, my prayers are with you. everything will turn out as it will and ultimately, you will be okay. whatever the outcome … hold your head up!
love to all …


Dear Newlife et all, Hang in there!! Yes it takes forever, but the option is to let them get away with even more. To not stand up.

I have also been devastated financially, after 27 yrs. with the P, self employed for most of those years, no prospects, no security, just the mess he left behind and trying to figure out what to do with my memories.

But it is soooooo much better now.

At the scariest times I really found the power of NOW was the most soothing thing. I have still been blessed to have stayed on the farm during this time, and the beautiful skies, the bird song, the open gentle landscape, all these things soothed me, when I made the effort to take them in. I just kept saying, one thing at a time. First you go after him, worry about the rest later. I will not crawl off into a hole and die. That would please him to damn much.

Anyhow, last week, the most truly amazing freinds ( I am calling them my fairy godparents) went out and bought a house for me to live in. Rent with an option. Can’t pay till later don’t worry. We believe in you….

The next day I got a call for a job – after over a year of looking and all of two interviews.

Next week I go to court.

They say it comes in threes, right?

What I am getting at is I had to abandon looking at and evaluating the quality of my future, because I just couldn’t see where it was going. I have lots of plans for what I want to do with my life, but not the how. And then Bingo. I am still pinching myself. And you know what my freinds said? “What goes around comes around, and sometimes good things do happen to good people”. If I dropped dead tommorrow, I would die happy,having had the warmth of that kind of freindship, and the love and support of my kids.

As time wears on more and more people dear to me are seeing and understanding, and lining up to watch my back. It is so affirming. In the beginning, it was shock, and how could she leave such a nice guy, break up her family like that etc.

I hope your ordeal is soon over and that you are able to get some justice. If you haven’t read the Power of Now I highly recommend it. Other than learning about the SPN’s, through LF and the books we all know, that book has been the most helpful to me in the healing journey, and really helped me “live” this last year, not just worry and despair.

And Matt, you were so missed. Did you see everybody looking for you?

I find it interesting that you say your father was an S. Quite a number of us seem to have close encounters in our childhoods with these creatures. If we come from such dysfunction and as children try to be lovable and try to please, try to act in a way to secure our safety and well being in face of disordered parents, no wonder, as adults, we think we can pull off saving “that lost little boy”.

My X after ONLY talking about how perfect and normal his youth was ( other than OTHER bad folks he kind of caught up with )- well at the very end he tried that lost little kid, had to play on the streets kind of BS in a very tiny little boy voice, next he tried his beloved sister is dying (with real crocodile tears-) next he tried (tears, on cue) how he had to be educated by a freind that what he had done was not okay, blah blah blah. They will leave no stone unturned.
Martha Stout is very clear on this, and Dr. Hare agrees, inevitably their lives spiral downward, whether quickly or in an agonizing death spiral. They have no integrity- they are not whole- so eventually they fall apart.

The most incredible double rainbow appeared over my house on the eve of my freinds looking at the new house they got for me.
It has been nothing but good since then, and I am told I look 10 years younger. I sure feel it.

Time is on your side – NewLife, hope you can savor the best of the Now and that you get to see him twist in the wind.

PS. The other reason I look younger is my favorite beauty secret which I will share with y’all. Prep. H under the bags under your eyes. Works great! LOL

Ox Drover


Does that work as a cure for a “chitty outlook?” ROTFLMAO, I’m sorry I couldn’t help myself on that one, you left it wide open, so it is YOUR FAULT I had to make the BAAAAAAD PUN!

BOINK!!! Myself! ha ha



It is timely that you mentioned looking 10 years younger.

When I look in the mirror right now I don’t see myself. I know I look terrible. I dress for work, do my hair and makeup but I just don’t look like me. I can’t explain it really. I gained weight back I had lost whjen he left back in 2006 the first time. I looked more myself then – younger -maybe it’s the weight. Or maybe it’s the last 4 years of stress and terror for my future. Will I ever look like me again?



I still remember he last time S ran his pity play. Act 1: The hurt little boy. Act 2: I’m trying so hard to go straight (after prison and drugs). Act 3: My father told me at my brother’s wedding last night that he’s going to kill my brain dead mother by disconnecting her from life support this week. Tears on cue, indeed.

That was the moment I realized he was playing me. And for all the tears and sobs, sturm and drang, there was literally nothing going on below the surface. Nothing. And then a moment later it was over and he was back laughing about something. Absolutely chilling. And my only thought is “this didn’t work, sex has got to be next.”

Thank you for calling. We have a winner folks. After withholding sex for months, suddenly he decided to put out. It was a revenge fuck on my part pure and simple.

I was smart enough to know there was yet another play coming. It came a few weeks later when he was locked out for not paying the rent. I refused to pony up 10 grand. He was stunned that nothing was working on me.

Yup. They’ll make any statement, do any act, no matter how outrageous if it can get them what they want.


Once the stress is over, you start to get your looks back. I looked like hell 6 months ago. Okay, at the moment, after night after night in a hospital, I look like hell with the dark circles under my eyes. But, once you can start focusing on yourself again — going to the gym, eating well, destressing, you come out looking better.


Newlife, yes you will when the crap you are dealing with is done and dealt with.
EWS, And heart wide open to hope, appreciation, blessings, and a future of peace! And thanks for the NOW comment. I can stay home this weekend in the fetal position worrying about what I can not control or I can get up and get out, hit the open road and go see my family of friends to get my mind off my problems. I will momentarily be packing. I have to trust that God is in control, and I do have that other degree so who knows, maybe I’m meant to do other work. Maybe even support group stuff for victims of malignant people.
Matt, Hang in there. You are a star of this forum, loved by many, and missed when absent. You are an amazing man, generous with your advice, support, and wisdom. I have to believe that in the end the universe or God or the scales of justice one will bless us for keeping faith and love in our hearts in spite of what we have endured. Or maybe because of what we have suffered. Just a thought.
Oxy, Thanks for the laugh. The day of court I shall bathe in it to keep myself from having a chitty disposition as the mere sight of him on the stand and calmly telling his lies as he attempts to destroy my life with have me seething in fury. But I will be serene because each of you here will be holding my hand and surrounding me with peace, love, understanding, and prayers that he will get his and the judge will have open eyes to his trickery and evil nature. Love to all, I’m hitting the road!


Try like hell to divert your own attention from the matter, you have done all you can, provided the key people info…..DO NOT LET THE LEGAL PROCESS DRIVE YOU CRAZY……because, no matter the outcome on tues…..if your crazy, the S would have satisfied the motive!!!!
Take a bath, take a walk, go anitquing, fake yourself into a decent mood over the weekend!
On tuesday, you go into court with all your mighty power, presented in a calm, rational, professional package and present yourself through your attorney! YOU take all the documents you have given your attorney with YOU. Have them all organized. All records, complaints etc…..
If you feel you need to speak up……do so, at the appropriate time! BUT CONCENTRATE on being IN CONTROL, show no emotion on your face, no smirks, no raised eyebrows……Be calm, collected and professional……..just like your dealing with a patient.
I know you have a lot at stake, but try to maintain your head……believe in yourself, your character and don’t let yourself think of the ‘worst’ as being an option. This will drive you nuts.
You need to be at your best……go paint your toenails, breathe and keep yourself/head busy.
You will come out fine……..I beleve this!!!
Keep your power girl……do NOT give it away!!!!!


Hi everyone,
I read all the LF articles and posts and help me so much. thank you all.

I understand so well what I’ve been dealing with including my own co dependant “addiction” issues to the S. This essay on the S aging out really applies here for me because once again I have fallen in the trap, with the illusion that he’s gotten “wiser, gentler and less abusive”, knowing that the core S personality is stil there. Help…I need to snap out of it.

I was contact free for some time, but since being diagnosed w/prostate cancer my ex S has continuously bombarded me with the pitty play and different angles…..I succomed and had contact….even protected sex with him! I felt pitty for him and felt no lovey dovey feelings, only sympathy knowing what an empty shell he is. I am disgusted with myself for allowing it happen. Even more now because I’m fighting the compassion loving feelings all over again. It’s making me crazy! my better judgement reminds me he is evil, and is only using me. I try to tell myself I only used him….but the emotions are stiring havock again.

How true that S never really disapears from our lives.


I guess we all wonder from time to time what will happen as they age?

Will they “mellow” out?
Is there a type of sociopathic burnout?
Will living a life with high risk catch up with them?

One question that I myself ask is what is the long term effects of living and having a life with other people that is dysfunctional? Strained and many times highly emotionally charged? What effects does a life like this have on the psyche and the body?

Many of them do go to prison, my own mother spend time behind that iron gate. But some don’t and escape this even if they deserved to do time.

She died a hateful evil person just as she lived. Having three out of 7 children (that we know about) not caring if she lived or died. The other 4? Well let’s just say their life was effected and not in a very positive way.

These four?

One half sister married very young just to get away from her. Later to divorce and marry a much older man. She married because she was pregnant so started having children at a very young age as well just like her mother.
One half brother was always in trouble with the law and involved with drugs. He is manipulative conning and a pathological liar just like his mother.
One daughter also spend time in prison as well as her oldest daughter for drugs. She is also very manipulative and abusive just like her mother.
One brother died as a “john doe” after getting hit by a car somewhere in California.

As for the other three? Well, that’s another story.

So the effect of living and then aging as a sociopathic person doesn’t just touch their life it touches many other life’s directly and/or in-directly.

So whenever I ask my self these questions, I tell myself I really don’t know but whenever I ask my heavenly father this question, God tells me this:

Galatians 6: 7-10

7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.


A good description of what happes to S and the loved ones around them.
My mother has lived with my NPD father (who is not S, just a major N), who is extremely emotionally abusive but a very financially and morally responsible person now for 51 years, and it has destroyed her health. She never had the strength to leave him and just settled….My father on the other hand has managed to alianate all his children and grand children from him and this makes him an angry person who then finds greater fullfilment in controlling my mother, and continuous to abuse by proxy. It is sad. They dont change, and they destroy the health of those closest to them.
I rather be alone than end up with an aging S or N , for I have sen what it’s done to my mother.



“I rather be alone than end up with an aging S or N , for I have sen what it’s done to my mother.”

Ditto! And for me, that is just what I am doing. I may not know what will happen to them but I have seen what happens to those that should be dearest and nearest to them and damn if I will be counted as one of these victims. I know enough not to put my hands inside a running motor and I should have enough insight not to put my hands on this type of dysfunctional way of living. I can’t help them but I can help myself.



Joy, Yes you will be surrounded by peace love and understanding, . I truly believe they are running scared and dissadvantaged once we have seen their “picture of Dorion Grey”, once they know you know how barren they are. Let us know when you win. as my kids would say “Secret that chit” (as in The Secret, you know-think it and it will manifest.)
And Oxy, you crack me (us I am sure) up! Chitty outlook is cured.

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