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Fake Rockefeller case: Are Ablow and Howe “hired guns”?

The back cover of Whores of the Court: The fraud of psychiatric testimony and the rape of American Justice by Margaret Hagen, Ph.D. has a picture of a graphic that says, “Expert Psychological Opinions For Sale.” In her book, Hagen is justifiably critical of psychologists and psychiatrists who function as “hired guns” in the court room. These hired guns, in collaboration with unethical attorneys often do the dirty work of psychopaths and make it difficult for victims to get justice.

Both the American Psychiatric Association and the American Psychological Association have issued strong statements about the ethics of acting as a “hired gun.” Such conduct is not considered ethical.

The American Psychiatric Association says, “When psychiatrists function as experts within the legal process, they should adhere to the principle of honesty and should strive for objectivity. Although they may be retained by one party to a civil or criminal matter, psychiatrists should adhere to these principles when conducting evaluations, applying clinical data to legal criteria, and expressing opinions”¦The adversarial nature of most legal processes presents special hazards for the practice of forensic psychiatry. Being retained by one side in a civil or criminal matter exposes psychiatrists to the potential for unintended bias and the danger of distortion of their opinion. It is the responsibility of psychiatrists to minimize such hazards by acting in an honest manner and striving to reach an objective opinion.”

The American Psychological Association says, “Psychologists seek to promote accuracy, honesty, and truthfulness in the science, teaching, and practice of psychology. In these activities psychologists do not engage in fraud, subterfuge, or intentional misrepresentation of fact.”

This week Christian Karl Gerhartsreiter a German national illegally in the United States went on trial for the kidnapping of his daughter and the resultant injury to the social worker entrusted with her safety. To summarize the case, Gerhartsreiter came to the US during high school in the late 1980s and never repatriated. He lived for a time in California and the people he lived with are now presumed dead/murdered. A car belonging to them was allegedly brought to CT by Gerhartstreiter who also allegedly engaged in marriage fraud to obtain a green card.

Gerhartstreiter assumed the identity of “Clark Rockefeller” and used this identity to con a beautiful and brilliant Harvard MBA by the name of Sandra Boss into marriage. According to testimony given by Sandra, she believed him to be a member of the Rockefeller family and did not come to understand the extent of his lies until 2006. During the marriage he was controlling, abusive and intimidating of Sandra but presented himself as intelligent, charming, and an excellent father to the outside world. Sandra hired a private investigator who helped her uncover the fraud, but they were never able to determine the true identity of her husband. His identity was not revealed until after the kidnapping arrest when finger prints established “Clark Rockefeller” was actually Gerhartstreiter.

Because “Clark Rockefeller” was unwilling to reveal his identity and Boss established there was no such person, the court did not look upon him favorably during the divorce proceeding. When they finally divorced, Sandra’s daughter was 7 and luckily Sandra obtained full custody with Gerhartstreiter granted 3 supervised visits with his daughter a year. It was during the first of these visits that Gerhartstreiter kidnapped the girl and injured the supervising social worker.

Since Gerhartstreiter was caught with the child, his only defense was to plead insanity. Using part of the $800,000.00 obtained from Sandra Boss in the divorce settlement, Gerhartstreiter’s defense team retained, a psychologist, Catherine Howe, and a psychiatrist, Keith Ablow to help bolster claims that Gerhartstreiter was legally insane at the time he kidnapped the girl.

Insanity is a legal concept not a psychological one. It simply means a defendant is not responsible for criminal conduct where (s)he, as a result of mental disease or defect, did not possess “substantial capacity either to appreciate the criminality of his conduct or to conform his conduct to the requirements of the law.”

It was up to Howe and Ablow then to diagnose Gerhartsreiter and to testify that he lacked the substantial capacity to appreciate the criminality of his conduct or to conform his conduct to the law. The second part of their job was made easier by the fact that in Massachusetts where the case is being tried, it is up to the prosecution to prove the absence of insanity in a mentally ill person.

To summarize then, Ablow and Howe diagnose a mental problem then the State has to prove he is not insane. OK what is the diagnosis of someone who is a grandiose and manipulative, parasitic, pathological liar, without empathy or remorse, who cons for profit or pleasure? Could it be that Howe and Ablow, two forensic specialists, have never heard of psychopathy?

A search of Amazon.com reveals that Ablow has written a book entitled “Psychopath.” I don’t know about Howe’s knowledge of the disorder. OH but lucky them, psychopathy is not an official psychiatric diagnosis so although nearly every forensic specialist accepts that it exists, it is not “official.” (The term psychopathy is listed in the DSM as a synonym for antisocial personality disorder.) Imagine if Ablow and Howe had to tell their employers and the jury that their client, Gerhartsreiter is actually a psychopath who cons, uses and abuses the people in his life without remorse. I don’t think the diagnosis psychopath would engender juror sympathy for a kidnapper or help to bolster the claim of insanity.

Since psychopathy is not an official diagnosis, Ablow and Howe had to fit their client into some DSM category. The DSM makes clear that this category is ASPD or antisocial personality disorder. But for Howe and Ablow, optimally the diagnosis should be one that engenders sympathy and makes their client look crazy. Clever them, they came up with “delusional disorder.” Their assertion is that at the time of the kidnapping Gerhartsreiter was suffering from delusions that he was indeed “Clark Rockefeller” heir to the Rockefeller fortune.

I have one question for the experts here, if the defendant thought he was the wealthy, brilliant and talented heir to the Rockefeller fortune why did he have to kidnap his daughter? Where is the delusional explanation of the kidnapping? A delusional person most likely would have just walked away with her believing himself to be entitled. No elaborate kidnapping plot needed. No discussion of any delusional thinking regarding the actual crime was mentioned in court.

Problem number 2 (pardon the pun) with “delusional disorder” is that the defendant fabricated so many lies that to call them all “delusional disorder” just doesn’t fit. As the prosecution expert witness psychiatrist James A. Chu explained, people with delusional disorder have one well circumscribed delusion in the context of a life that is otherwise functional. Outside of that one delusion they seem normal. I just do not buy that either Ablow or Howe really believe that Gerhartsreiter has delusional disorder.

Howe and Ablow also say Gerhartsreiter has narcissistic personality, the problem there is that many criteria for antisocial personality are also found in Gerhartsreiter. They were ethically obligated to discuss these criteria. It seems that NPD is increasingly being used as a synonym for psychopathy. An interest in the truth would also dictate that it be known that antisocial behavior of the degree represented here is not part of NPD. Deception and other antisocial behavior are part of antisocial personality disorder, and psychopathy is basically ASPD in a narcissist.


See the Table below for the criteria for antisocial personality disorder and psychopathy. Notice that “Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases or conning others for personal profit or pleasure,” is a criteria for ASPD.
Comparison between ASPD and psychopathy
When I was on the surgical rotation as a third year med student, the senior resident asked us all, “What has four wings and flies?” The correct answer to this question is “two birds.” The moral is, look for the simplest, least exotic explanation for your findings. It is simple to say that Gerhartsreiter meets criteria for ASPD and has many psychopathic personality traits. No need to invent some unusual combination of rare disorders here. Both delusional disorder and narcissistic personality disorder are listed as rare in the DSM.

As a result of this case, I now believe it is imperative that the American Psychiatric Association formally recognize both psychopathy as a diagnosis and the parasitic, conning lifestyles adopted by many psychopaths. The effect of a disorder on a person’s lifestyle is described for other disorders. In terms of psychopathy, the symptoms and lifestyle of this defendant are not unusual, just ask forensic expert Donna Andersen or visit True Lovefraud Stories!

In his testimony, Keith Ablow was a true crusader for the defense. During cross examination Thursday, Ablow thought it necessary to continue the abuse of Sandra Boss (the victim) that had already been started by the defense earlier in the week. Ablow had the audacity to suggest that the matter was the responsibility of Sandra who failed to obtain the proper treatment for her poor delusional husband. If the defendant had only had a spouse who could have recognized he was ill then everything would have been OK and he would have been a loving, contributing family member.

The suggestion that Sandra had any responsibility here is especially outrageous since both NPD and delusional disorder are just as refractory to treatment as ASPD/psychopathy.

In my opinion, it is the legal system in collaboration with psychologists and psychiatrists like Howe and Ablow who enable psychopaths like Gerhartsreiter to avoid treatment. The optimal outcome for everyone involved here will result from the conclusion that Gerhartsreiter and his behavior are classic for psychopathy. Psychopaths are considered responsible for their actions and are not insane. The many identities they assume are volitional and serve a purpose- they are part of their parasitic and predatory behavior toward others.

In “The Manipulative Personality” a 1972 article in the Archives of General Psychiatry, the author Ben Bursten says this about sociopaths, “Without deception he could influence someone but he would not have the feeling that he put something over on the other person”¦ Some workers have felt that the deceptiveness of the sociopath represents a defect in reality testing wherein the individual is not aware of what is true and what is not when he lies. On the contrary, I believe that but for perhaps fleeting moments of unbridled enthusiasm for the lie, the sociopath knows very well that he is deceiving. Indeed such knowledge is an important part of the sense of putting something over on the other person. It is not a defect in reality testing which enables the manipulator to lie so easily. Rather it is that the telling of truth has such a low position on his hierarchy of values.”

For me, the mental picture of Gerhartsreiter getting a charge out of having put one over on Howe and Ablow, is rather comical. This entire situation that has been engineered and created by a master manipulator is quite ironic. Perhaps Ablow and Howe have more in common with Sandra Boss than they realize!

Are Howe and Ablow hired guns? Are they unethical? Are they too just the victims of psychopathic manipulation? To quote another of Ablow’s employers, at Lovefraud.com, “We report, you decide.”


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59 Comments on "Fake Rockefeller case: Are Ablow and Howe “hired guns”?"

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Dr. Leedom…good assessment.

A recent gem I stumbled across…

“99% of lawyers make the rest look bad”

Corollaries…

99% of psychiatric “expert witnesses” make the rest look bad

100% of psychopaths…well…just bad.

Gotta love our system of “justice”. Blame the victim…follow the money.

Too true Jim, both there and here in Oz. Just got a letter from the dental board and tax office and they are doing ZILCH about his hundreds of thousands of dollars of fraud. Psychopath wins again.

Dr. Leedom,

I share your fury at this travesty of “justice” and I totally agree that the psych association should “defecate or vacate” (that’s polite for “chit or get off the pot!”) I think the various EGOS in the association that cant come to some agreement on the NAME, much less the associated symptoms, for what is obviously a BIG PROBLEM is outrageous!

The physicians and other professionals that tout themselves as “expert witnesses” for BIG BUCKS and to get their egos stroked make me want to PUKE. If you have enough money you can find some “expert” in some field who will twist the truth and testify that the moon is made of green cheese!

Jim, I totally agree with your post above!

Because this is such a “high profile” case and “national news” because of its “strangeness” the “ambitious” attorneys and “experts” want to get their faces on the nightly news.

The O. J. Simpson trial is proof that acquital can be “bought” by playing the “everyone is bad but the defendent” cards if you play them hard enough.

For people with “expert credentials” to get up and testify to utter FALSEHOOD should have some consequences for these people who do this. But because of teh nature of psych diagnosis [primarily being “subjective” rather than “objective” I don’t see that it will happen. There are no X-rays or lab tests to use to show EXACTLY what this man is.

I wish you, Dr. Leedom, had been called to testify for the DEFENSE, I bet you would have put them in the gutter! If anyone is a TRUE EXPERT, it is you! And, everyone here at LF, except we dont’ all have “letters after our names.”

Awesome analysis Dr. Leedom. I too thought the two shrinks were repulsive, but I wasn’t able to articulate the cause of the revulsion nearly as well as you did.

I was extremely impressed with Sandra Blow. I thought she was very strong in the witness stand.

Andrea Peyser, on of the meanest human beings alive today, made a few snide comments. I don’t think many people agree with Peyser. She’s vile.

In general, I think most people respect Blow. It takes real toughness not to crumble under the abuse she’s taken.

I don’t think the courts/legal system will ever get a handle on psychopathy. Perhaps they don’t want to because there are so many police officers, doctors, lawyers, nurses, psychiatrists, television personalities, etc, who are psychopaths or narcissists themselves!
Haven’t you ever seen a doctor or a lawyer with a “GOD” Complex? Many of them are at least carrying some of the traits (or know someone who is), but they are completely content living in their own ignorance.

Everyone wants to criticize someone ELSE who got conned. But no one wants to look at their own backyard, if you know what I mean.

There are A LOT of people out there living in glass houses.

P.S. And maybe the manipulation of our court system is the greatest manipulation of all! SCARY.

Furthermore, there is “Book Smarts” and THEN there is “STREET SMARTS”.

A lot of these “experts” on psychopathy do a lot of controlled research and read a lot of books/articles. That is what I would call “Book Smarts”.

But, to really understand the psychopath, you are going to need “STREET SMARTS”. And the only way to get that “Street Credibility” is to have a close personal encounter with a psychopath, one that leaves you traumatized.

And a lot of “experts” just don’t have that “Street Cred”.

Dr. Leedom has it, and she “GETS IT”, but she is the exception in her field, not the norm, at least in my opinion.

I read “Psychopath” by Ablow awhile back. It’s OK to a point, but Ablow really doesn’t GET psychos.

He portrays them as operating with a different sense of morality, right and wrong. Rather than acting just out of power and control.
http://holywatersalt.blogspot.com/2008_05_01_archive.html

In Thursday’s “New York Times” I was reading about Sandra Boss on the stand and her recounting of her life with this creature — him taking her entire 2 million dollar a year salary, his blackmailing her with their daughter, his emotional abuse, etc, etc, etc. All I kept thinking was “the woman was involved with a sociopath and never knew what hit her.” There was a part of me that wanted to contact her attorneys and suggest she log onto LoveFraud.

Yesterday, I was telling one of the lecturers at uni ( an American), how great a site love fraud is. She said that it would definitely be monitored due to the content and to be careful. I didn’t ask what she meant. ( I confess, I felt defensive at the time and I didn’t want to know! ) But then it haunted me..Anyway,
What does she mean?

Rosa,
You are so right! That is the only reason LF works so well, because of its “unity in adversity”. i.e. People like you, Oxy, Matt and lots of others have had first hand direct and MULTIPLE encounters with psychopaths! Unless this happens you will NEVER “get it”. Because it is just too UNBELIEVABLE and ASTONISHING that these people exist GENETICALLY as well as due to circumstance and environment.
Until I “got that” I couldn’t be helped. Fifty four years of extreme abuse in the hands of multiple P’s couldn’t teach me that – until Oxy and LF pointed it out. Oxy only could point it out because her love for her own son and what he did to her gave her no choice (i.e. in the end), but to acknowledge and communicate and deal with the TRUTH. Otherwise she would be dead. Like me. “The truth has set her free”.The underlying belief that all humans deep down are inherently good at birth is just not true. I used to believe that all my life until I got here.
A psychiatrist or counselor or therapist would NEVER be able to help anyone traumatised by a psychopath unless they could acknowledge and recognise them for what they are. And to do that it is virtually impossible unless you have lived with one for a period of time, as they are so good at portraying what is required to get what they want.

Tilly:

I think what the lecturer was talking about when she said the site could be “monitored” is that sociopaths could be lurking. We have had a few along the way. The infamous “Mr Green” stands out in my mind. They are pretty much spotted by those of us blogging or by Donna and promptly run off the pasture.

That said, I wouldn’t let that worry you. We’re all anonymous. More to the point, we’re a pretty savvy group and if the sociopath doesn’t announce to the world that they’re a sociopath (for some reason they seem to think this makes them important in their eyes. go figure) we all pretty much figure out what they are and pay them no nevermind.

Tilly:

I stumbled onto this site while researching “child abuse” online because I was so distraught over what was happening to my niece. I thought maybe the sister-in-law had something like prolonged post-pardem depression or something that needed therapy or some type of medication.

But, when I accidentally clicked onto this site, and started reading, the red flags and light bulbs were going off so fast and furious, it was like the 4th of July in my mind.

I could not stop reading, and the more I read, the more everything made sense. I think my blood pressure was up 15-20 points the first week I found this sight and started putting everything together.
I could not even sleep at night.
It was like the MOTHER OF ALL EPIPHANIES.

Anyway, I would still be ignorant about personality disorders, even with all of my experiences, if I had not found this sight.

P.S. And the most valuable piece of info. that Donna and Dr. Leedom gave me was that neither the courts, police, or child services would be able to protect my niece from such an individual, especially when that individual is the mother.
On the day I got up enough courage to contact Donna, my next call was going to be the police. She and Dr. Leedom talked me out of it. I am so glad I listened, because I see now that it would have been FUTILE.

“And to do that it is virtually impossible unless you have lived with one for a period of time, as they are so good at portraying what is required to get what they want.”

I think this site is making a real difference in getting the word out. The n/p I encountered wasn’t my spouse, but my thesis adviser. The day Donna published my letter (http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/03/04/letters-to-lovefraud-she-turned-into-a-snarling-spitting-monster/), and I met you guys, my life changed immeasurably for the better.

Even though the n/p was only a trusted teacher, it is truly amazing how much devastation these people can create. I had been healing and moving onto my dream career of teaching before I encountered this woman. Very different to where I am today, after what felt like my own personal Ground Zero.

The good news is I have faced my history, and looked hard at the conditions in my life that drew her to select me as a victim. I’m much more observant these days. I get it that these folks can fool anyone, and though I keep an eye out for red flags, I realize that there are no guarantees. I’ve re-evaluated my relationships, behavior patterns and choices. I’ve let go of much of my neediness, and am focusing on building a happy life from the inside out, though I still have a long way to go to recover financially.

I don’t like to think how this would have gone had I not found Lovefraud. I was still wrestling with deep depression, and still convinced that somehow I must have done something wrong, otherwise how could I, as an A student at graduate level, be derailed from completing my Master’s program in the course of one conversation? How could anybody just decide to derail my life? Without reading the postings here, I’d never have grasped what I’d dealt with! I don’t believe the healing I’m experiencing would have happened.

The blind spot our culture maintains towards these false human beings harms us in so many ways that it’s nearly impossible to articulate. I really can’t imagine what Ms. Blow felt on that stand as she was being grilled, but from my attempt to make my case with the university, I can only say she’s a very gutsy and determined woman. I hope people who read the story are paying attention.

Betty: Your story made a big difference for me. You described something that I have also experienced, in a slightly different way.

I want to ask if you will check out another site that may help and also need your insights. It is “www.aftermath-surviving-psychopathy.org”

They have a forum called “Institutions and Organizations” discussing psychopaths within institutions that we think we should be able to trust.

You have no idea how much your story helped me. The person I tangled with was after the “lovefraud” con artist. I was almost getting over him when I met up with someone like your thesis advisor.

Liane:

Your comment about the need for psychopathy and the parasitic, conning lifestyle adopted by psychopaths jumped out at me just now after I read, of all things, today’s “Dear Abby”.

This woman had written in about her daughter who told people she was graduating from college, although she wasn’t, just so she could get the graduation gifts. She then sponged off her parents for 7 months, until they told her to get a job. She left, for Europe, supposedly to play for a professional woman’s sports team. Of course, there were problems in negotiating her contract, so she needed money sent.

The daughter’s manipulation, lying, grandiose stories and blatant exploitation all jumped out at me and I immediately thought — parasitic lifestyle and psychopath. But, not Dear Abby. No, she tells this woman that she and her husband needed to get their daughter back to the US and insist she go into treatment for her obvious emotional problems and insist she get a job, etc, etc.

As we all know, the absolutely wrong approach since (a) there is no treatment for a psychopath and (b) if the mother follows Abby’s suggestion the daughter will win since she can continue to exploit her parents.

Bottom line — forget the antisocial personality disorder diagnosis. Call a psychopath/sociopath exactly what they are a psychopath/sociopath and admit they are human parasites. Maybe if they can finally get it straight in the DSM V, then so-called experts like “Dear Abby” will stop handing out incorrect information and save the victims a lot of grief.

Hi Betty:

I read your story, twice! I couldn’t believe it the first time.

Matt:

“she tells this woman that she and her husband needed to get their daughter back to the US and insist she go into treatment for her obvious emotional problems and insist she get a job…”

Nothing like “treatment” to sharpen a psychopath’s skills and enhance their catalog of lies.

Insightful and interesting! Thanks!

8)

Rune, Thanks so much for the site! I’m so glad that what I’ve said has been helpful, because anything good coming out of it is a blessing. I really appreciate your response.

What’s been hard for me to admit to myself is I realize now I’ve encountered n/p people before grad school, but I was lucky in that the harm was manageable in that they didn’t burrow inside my life and stay for years. Like with Matt’s mention of Dear Abby’s poor advice, I also believed there was something amiss with them, and they needed help. I couldn’t even imagine there were human beings who entirely lacked feelings. Now I know. As Rosa said, treatment isn’t not what they need at all because treatment is just practice sessions for these gifted mimics of human behavior. They’re always perfecting their skills of manipulation.

The parasitic quality: the professor I encountered ran a department, so that didn’t seem to fit at first glance. But she had dupes in the department, and even a dean, who ran interference for her. When I tried to lodge a complaint, the dean was never available, and her secretary just referred me back to the n/p professor who’d been abusive. I also learned something very significant in the “publish or perish” environment of a university: she had publications listed, but they were literally only exerts or slight re-workings from her thesis written 30 years ago! Nothing since. No substance, but tons of benefits! My newly installed Parasite-o-meter going “Ding, Ding, Ding”!

Rosa, nice to meet ya! Matt, I’m glad you’re back and hope you’re taking good care of yourself. I don’t post a lot, but I read every day, and wish you guys only the best. Can’t tell you how much you’ve added to my life and healing.

Prize for Quote of the daygoes to Matt::
“Bottom line forget the antisocial personality disorder diagnosis. Call a psychopath/sociopath exactly what they are a psychopath/sociopath and admit they are human parasites”.
HERE! HERE!

I second that!!!!!

I watched a show on MSNBC with Chris Hansen, about a “con”…..another S…… He never said S/P……but he sure knew the key words to use with the police interviewer and others…….he really does a good job.
Ya know, Chris Hansen may be just the right guy with the balls to start the ball rolling on Naming the disorder.
He does alot of risque shows on predators……maybe we should start a letter campaign to Chris Hansen, asking for exposure of the SOCIOPATH word.
???????????????

When my ex P BF asked me, did I want to go to “couples counselling” ( I knew his psychiatrist was a narcissist herself and he was paying her huge dollars to go toward his fraudulent insurance claim), I said to him, ” yeah right, like you’re gonna spend even one dollar on me, to go see your shrink! that’s pretty funny!”. It was shortly after that I got the short shift. In retrospect it was because I was “ONTO HIM” AND HE HATED THAT.

Tilly: The following quote is in Dr. Leedom’s blog:

In “The Manipulative Personality” a 1972 article in the Archives of General Psychiatry, the author Ben Bursten says this about sociopaths, “Without deception he could influence someone but he would not have the feeling that he put something over on the other person” Some workers have felt that the deceptiveness of the sociopath represents a defect in reality testing wherein the individual is not aware of what is true and what is not when he lies. On the contrary, I believe that but for perhaps fleeting moments of unbridled enthusiasm for the lie, the sociopath knows very well that he is deceiving. Indeed such knowledge is an important part of the sense of putting something over on the other person. It is not a defect in reality testing which enables the manipulator to lie so easily. Rather it is that the telling of truth has such a low position on his hierarchy of values.”

Maybe your ex-PBF “dumped” you because he could no longer successfully lie to you — because you were on to him. You took all the “FUN” out of it! And THAT’S what he hated.

Rune said: “On the contrary, I believe that but for perhaps fleeting moments of unbridled enthusiasm for the lie, the sociopath knows very well that he is deceiving. Indeed such knowledge is an important part of the sense of putting something over on the other person”

I wholeheartedly agree with the above. My ex LOVED duping people. He KNEW he was lying and duping at least a good portion of the time and he BRAGGED about duping people, including duping ME.

He literally told me on the phone “You’re my best dupe yet. I got over on you better than any of them. The NEXT one’s gonna buy me a boat or a house.” Then, of course, later on when he “needed” to use me again, he denied he ever said that and he turned on the charm again . BUT later on down the road a few months he left on VOICEMAIL when he was in one of his terrorizing/threatening 50 or 60 voicemails a day period, “You’re my best dupe yet.” Since it was on voicemail I copied that one off onto a tape and I STILL have it along with about a hundred other voicemail messages to remind myself (in case ever tempted) of just what a SHIT this man is.
Although they may lie to themselves about their victims status etc., I strongly believe that most of them know EXACTLY what they are doing and that they know they are lying when they dupe people.

Jen – do you think they know? I think they do.I am having a bad day, I stupidly spoke to my mother( an n/p/s?) about some things that have come to light and she told me that he probably just did what he did because he is immature, and immature sexually, and that she cant see why I am so down(??!) … then I start thinking did he do these things for a pre-determined reason… a plan… or doesnt he know what he’s doing? I feel like every subtle manipulation and weird act was well thought out… he always seemed to live like he was playing a game of chess, but then he also told me that all he was doing was negotiating the next bend in the road, and had no further future thoughts than that… apart from marrige… and us in old age!? I am very confused all of a sudden:(
I’m so tired today. I hope I feel better in the morning. I feel like I’ve fallen flat on my face again.

Blueskies: Yes, they know, but only a move or so ahead, and it’s not “a chess game,” because they’re not that organized. It isn’t even like they want to win “the chess game,” they want to make you think they’re playing chess, but they’re actually just “playing” YOU.

Nothing he said makes any sense in the way the rest of us think. And don’t apply any of his criticisms, comments, whatever to yourself as if they were real. It was all about manipulation, and don’t even assume that he had any end goal in sight.

That stuff about “marriage and old age together” was just another set of empty phrases.

I think the one truth might be that he was just “negotiating the next bend in the road,” without a road map, without enough gas in the tank to get to the next town, without enough money in his pocket to buy gas, without a spare tire . . . You get the idea.

At some point we figure out that we can’t take any of their words personally. They are meaningless. And knowing that can set us free.

Absolutely, in my opinion, Keith Ablow and Catherine Howe are doing a great disservice to the law, their professions, and the public in their paid testimonies (each in the 5 figures, to best of my knowledge) in this case. Thank you for this post.

Tilly: That comment from your lecturer is so odd (“She said that [LF] would definitely be monitored due to the content and to be careful”), it makes me very curious. Regarding the lecturer, have you ever felt her to be abnormally arrogant, is there anything odd or hollow about her eyes (“Clark Rockefeller” has very odd s/p eyes, imo), or have you ever, even for a split second, felt you didn’t know who or what she was? On my blog I occasionally get threats, other bloggers have also reported threats, Laura Knight-Jadczyk who posted the full version of Cleckley’s Mask of Sanity has a team of sociopathic cyberstalkers who follow her around on the internet. I’ve always figured these harassers are just lone actors. Hmmmm.

http://pathwhisperer.wordpress.com

It sounds as if Gerhartsreiter has a very long history of conning and duping alot of other people, not just Sandra Boss. Although even Dr. Hare says narcissistic pd is difficult to distinquish from psychopathy, like Dr. Leedom says G. has all those antisocial features in there too. I noticed on some of those blogs some people were saying he took his daughter because he “loved” her blah blah. I think the dude is a psychopath and IMO he took his daughter because she was the one person that Sandra held dearest to her heart and by taking her that would destroy Sandra. So, he simply determined what Sandra valued most, then took the quickest route to strike out at and devaste Sandra by going for that. Imagine if he had not been caught but had gotten away with it and lived out his life with the child like that guy down in Florida did when he stole his two daughters. It would destroy sandra to lose her child so it was all about winning and destroying, not love, which to me is classic PSYCHOPATHIC behavior.

IMO, Gerhartsreteiter has managed to pull off one helluva dupe of which I feel quite certain he is enormously proud: he manipulated and convinced his shrinks into thinking he is delusional and that he “believes” his own lies. He’s even getting the thrill and satisfaction of sitting there hearing them blame Sandra for HIS behavior. I imagine he just chuckles with delight everytime he thinks of how he “got over” on the shrinks and how he is being portrayed in a sympathetic light and Sandra is being blasted for being human and not hiring a private eye to check him out and document him the second she met him (like those criticizing her actually do that with everyone they get involved with!)

Since the two examiners actually had access to him and none of us have, and I don’t know how they came up with their diagnosis, I’ll just say that I could buy the Narcissistic (malignant) diagnosis since even Hare says it is difficult to distinguish from psychopathy, but when they start babbling on blaming Sandra and then saying he is delusional and not responsible for his actions, THAT is where I think the two shrinks are HALLUCINATING and delusional. I don’t understand how a person who is so delusional could really manage to keep it all together (stories etc.) well enough to dupe not only Sandra but other highly educated and well off segment of society for YEARS. To me that sort of finesse would require a mentality that would be directly opposite opposite of delusional.

Jen: I’m going to disagree, but in a subtle way. You said, “I think the dude is a psychopath and IMO he took his daughter because she was the one person that Sandra held dearest to her heart and by taking her that would destroy Sandra. So, he simply determined what Sandra valued most, then took the quickest route to strike out at and devastate Sandra by going for that.”

My take on the psychopath is that he/she delights in creating wreckage. It wasn’t even necessarily about Sandra, but this was the fastest path to maximum wreckage. In his narcissistic fantasy, he might have thought that people would sympathize with him (he probably doesn’t understand the emotional content of that word, but knew he’d get support), and he probably thought about this as high drama in which he could star as the “hero.” He hit and injured the social worker, he pulled this off on the very first of three scheduled annual supervised visits. His court drama over divorce/custody/visitation was over, and NOW what was he going to do for “fun”?

His actions also probably had something to do with “winning and destroying,” but consider how much FUN this would be for a psychopathic individual!

Jen: You suggest that G has been diagnosed by his shrinks as delusional. I believe the dupes here are the public. Those “shrinks” know better. They are speaking falsehood because there’s a slim chance G will get off on an insanity plea if his legal team can BS the court into believing this “delusional” lie.

It has been well established that psychopathy does not meet the criteria for “legally insane” to get a plea of “not guilty by reason of insanity.” A psychopath knows what he is doing, knows the difference between right and wrong — he just doesn’t care.

What horrifies me is that these two “mental health professionals” are willing to prostitute themselves to lie like this. They know better. Are they any better than G?

Just like a P/S……they CHOOSE to be delusional…..the victim…..the academy award actor…….seeking awards from the media and dimiinishing his victim to ‘crazy making’ judgement of her……projection, harassment…..All backed up by ‘professional’ opinions…….
Her being tried in public opinion for HIS actions……his motives all carried out on his behalf by others!!!
Next it will be the daughters fault for going with him!

Sick bastard…….I want HIM to be MY next boyfriend!!!!

I do not see how these ‘professionals’ can ethically, participate in this circus and exploitation of the wife. Obviously…..I don’t know the lady CH, but Mr. Ablow had his own TV show, and appears on numerous shows as a ‘big gun’….HELLOOOOOO……like money doesn’t speak to him!
Can’t wait for it all to turn on them to…….then let’s see what diagnosis we come up with.

It sure be against ethics and illegal for a licenced/currently in practice pro to be appearing on tv shows paid.
Either make money in practice, or make money on a tv show.

Our legal system is so disjointed to allow this to go on.
And we wonder why so much ‘vigilante’ justice is done!!!
Can we blame the vigilante’s?

SCUM! Simple…….

Rune said” “Jen: You suggest that G has been diagnosed by his shrinks as delusional.”

Well that is what the newspaper articles say the defense diagnosed him with: Narcissistic PD and delusional disorder.

BTW, the prosecution psychiatrist diagnosed him as mixed PD–narcissistic with antisocial.

Rune said: “His actions also probably had something to do with “winning and destroying,” but consider how much FUN this would be for a psychopathic individual.”

Well, I think is IS “fun” to a psychopath to win and destroy things dear to someone’s heart. My ex considered it great fun and even used the word “fun” when he was talking about destroying or taking something another person valued.

In reading some of the testimony about the supposed delusions, the prosecution asked if he was delusional during all those other periods of times using various aliases and the psychologist said NO. Apparently he was just delusional during his Rockefellow period or something—-????????????? Their logic seems so outlandish to even a lay person that it makes me wonder how they could do this knowing how it will surely tarnish their professional reputations with their professional peers.

My ex S took my kids, out of the blue….told them I faked ever being sick, faked cancer, I was really mentally ill, suicidal, crazy, sick……and promptly took them out of state/school etc…..
He did this to GET TO ME! To break my bond with our kids. There is NO question to this!!! He wreaked the same damage on my family that he dumped my kids off on, told them the same lies to suck them in with ‘concern’ for my kids…..
He knew he would have to go big on this lie…..anyone who knows me, knows I have ALWAYS been here for my kids, always spent the time, all my time…..whatever it took….my kids are my world. My parenting or bond has NEVER been questions……contrary…..my dedication to my kids has always been complimented by people/friends/family etc….that have spent any time with us……. So YES……he had to go big……his lies didn’t come ‘out of the blue’…..he concocted his stories…..carefully crafted his moves……and manipulations.
HE KNEW EXACTLY WHAT HE WAS DOING!!!!! He calculated every step. It didn’t just happen THAT day……he planned and plotted it all……I have factual evidence on this. (thank god for recon).
He had tried something similar once before, Lies, take the kids…..try to brianwash during their time with him etc…..don’t tell your mother…..hold secrets, offer toys, fun, mall trips with unlimited spending…..disneyland dad.
The kids told me and this was what precipitated our seperation. We were seperated and the kids had no contact with him when he took them the second time.
He pounced on them, with the lies and conned urgency, scary…..smokescreen and bombs going off……OMG….your mother really doesn’t have cancer…..OMG, She has faked it all, OMG…. your in danger, she is mentally ill….she is plotting to kill herself and take you all with her……OMG….ALARM ALARM……we must act NOW!!!!! Typical S behaviors……don’t give anyone time to think about the ‘purchase’……we NEED TO ACT NOW!!!!!
My ex S never bothered to have a close relatonship with the kids….oh sure, he was the soccer, baseball coach etc…..but NOT FOR THE KIDS……he wanted the portrayal….the good guy image, it was all for himself and his ‘head shot’ for the ‘media’…….he abused the shit out of his own kids that he ‘coached’, belitteling them, etc….
That was his ‘platform’ to show he was a great father…..”I WAS THEIR COACH”……yeah, yeah, yeah……blah, blah, blah….
Yeah….he was the coach that got thrown out of several leagues, banned from rec. centers, he was the coach we are all warned about. HE IS THAT COACH……
Damn….had I have known, I would have filmed him in action and produced a public service message for youth athletics.

When the S realized he couldnt break the bond between me and our kids……he resorted to ‘upped’ tacticts, big lies……
Thinking he could buy enough time to break us apart from our bond (me and kids) that I had developed over the lifetime of good/loving/open parenting and developed mutual trust and respect…….He never took the time to develope any of this with his own kids. His only motive, at that point, was to break us apart. Affect our bond. Destroy us.
IF he couldn’t have a relationship with the kids……well then…. either can I.
He became really good at making projective outward comments and this came up in court once…..but turned on me. This gave me insight into his real motive….
I always said….pay attention to the words……they are a window to his soul…..
I knew what was true….I lived it……so when he came up with an outlandish statement……it has always been proven to be something HE is/has done!!!
I listen carefully…….it all makes sense.
This is why its so important not to take WORDS personally from the S.
They have other meanings than what is on the surface.

How could a caring loving parent, be ‘so concerned’ about his kids, remove them from school abruptly, take them to another state……..(while he wasn’t working mind you), and just leave them with someone………He NEVER HAD ANY PLANS ON STAYING WITH THEM, raising them, caring for them……Again….If he couldn’t have them, neither could I!!!!
Oh….but he left money to care for them!!!! That is enough to take care of HIS possessions……you know……..
He knew this would be a huge vulnerable spot, and hoping my treatments would interfere with my ability to respond……he figured I would react in a ‘crazy’ way…..or at least a way he could portray as crazy…….See, see, see…..look at her…..
I NEVER REACTED IN THE WAY ANYONE (even myself) expected. I went against my own initial insticts……he was setting me up to look just like he portrayed me as…..the crazy woman!!! THANK GOD I NEVER WENT RAMBO……I let it play it’s course, I showed NO REACTION, but a legal reaction…….It was the hardest thing I have EVER done!!! EVER!!!!

.” A psychopath knows what he is doing, knows the difference between right and wrong he just doesn’t care.

I so very much agree with this comment!!!!
S’s only care about pain and destruction caused by HIM…..WINNING AT ALL/ANY COSTS!!!!!

Jen: As I said, it’s the PUBLIC that are the real dupes here. The news reporters don’t know enough to know that this is falsehood being promoted by a legal defense strategy. So they report that G was “diagnosed with narcissistic PD and delusional disorder,” and the reporters don’t know enough to question this. The defense lawyers got a couple of high-profile “shrinks” who were willing to throw their reputations in the garbage disposal in exchange for a bunch of bucks.

Those so-called “professionals” have shown themselves to be lying scum, IMO. This is far beyond “tarnish” on their reputations. At the end of this, they won’t even be “high-class call girls,” relative to their professional standing.

Rune:
Yes you are so right! and also because he couldn’t CONTROL me. When I wouldn’t host a drunken party for him, (i.e.a week long party for all his alcoholic enablers – who hated me out of jealousy), he called eight police! I had booked into a motel, knowing the drunks were staying at our house for a week. I refused to converse with him about it because I knew it was pointless to argue with him . He knew i had exams at uni all that week and i was really stressed.
When the police turned up at the motel, he knew I would be devastatingly triggered. (Because of prior legal abuse at the hands of a psychopath solicitor that i had been in a relationship with five years before). He told the police to “get me to come outside into the car park and talk to him”, he said he was “fearful of me but wanted me to go back to him”!
When the police saw I was not a homicidal maniac (as he had described me to them), they told me it would probably be a good idea to move out from living with him and get an avo on him.
The Psychopath stayed out side and then tried to get my son to make me go home with him.
When my son said to him, “She won’t ever go back,you called the police, its over”.
He went home and threw some of my stuff into the street and kept the valuable stuff including my dog. (He hated my dog and later gave it to his P daughter).. He then got an avo on me (through lying to the court) that i don’t go near any of his kids or him. Within 6 weeks he moved in a young girl from India ( that he had just met on RSVP).
He still has my valuable things and I know I will never see them again.
But what I have now is much more valuable.
I know how to live the rest of my life and I have peace of mind and a protected heart.

Tilly: Your story about being in the motel and having him call the police on you makes absolutely no sense at all — UNLESS your audience understands what a psychopath will do!!!

Yikes!! Now your story about him stealing your stuff makes more sense. What at lying, manipulative, vicious, low-life, . . . Oh, I guess we’ve described him already elsewhere. ENOUGH ABOUT HIM, right?

In your story about that final drama, I see his calculated menace, timing all of this for when you were most vulnerable, and using the unwitting dupes on the police force to further traumatize you.

I’m so proud of you, finding your way out of that mess and into the LF community. You deserve to take your new-found awareness and turn it toward creating the life you’ve always dreamed of.

In our stories on LF, we hear over and over….”HE KNEW I WAS……..stressed, studying, grieving, sick, tired, _________…………
Of coarse they know…..I believe it’s all part of the calculated timing of the ‘game’.
We no longer play along with the game…..they tend to ‘up the ante’ when we don’t play along…..
That’s the ‘punishment phase’…….
Oh, yes……that punishment phase~

The courts have been used as a tool by a psychopath to “get even” with me. I needed to find an attorney who knows how to put a stop to this. I lucked out and found one who actually has an undergrad degree in psychology and knows how these people work. A referral service on this site would be great.

Betrayed:

You found a lawyer with an undergrad degree in psychology who “gets it”?
You have found the Holy Grail.

Betrayed:
CONGRATULATIONS…….I was successful at ending up with a ‘get it’ attorney also! Made all the difference for me!!!!!!
Yes, the courts are abuse by these asses. It clouds the system and judgement of authority figures….this is the intention……smokescreen, and doubt BOTH of us! More damage to be done aided by the system!!!!!
BTW….Donna is putting together a referral list, it will take time to go through. We can all help out by sending her recomendations of successful professionals we have used or know of.
In the meantime…..the ‘HIGH CONFLICT INSTITUTE” has seminars on these cluster B types for professionals and private parties. They have a list of pro’s that have attended seminars….whether they ‘get it’ or not I can’t say…..but at least they have been enlightend by the education!!!! The folks that run this institute are very in tune with the courts, justice sytems from the inside and out.

I won! Towanda! The whole story on Philosophy of Sociopath thread in moments.

Good News,

Not everyone is being unkind to Sandra Boss. Here is a very good article.

http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/relationships/articles/2009/06/10/secrets_and_lies/

That was, indeed, a good article. I sent a complimentary email to the reporter. Every little bit helps.

EC, I read the article and it was OK, but the comments were for the most part NASTY! People just do NOT get5 it! Tehre was wone former victim who made a good case for her, but the rest just didn’t get it. Sad.

But the article itself is one of the best in mainstream stuff. Totally not blaming the victim. Saying ANYONE can be a target. I loved it! Will post on it.

Rune:
“Yikes!! Now your story about him stealing your stuff makes more sense. What at lying, manipulative, vicious, low-life, . . .”
Thankyou so so much for confirming what I feel about him! Nobody ever had done that and somehow Rune, it really helps me a lot, so thankyou thankyou.. The other thing he did was to time his assault to perfection. IT WAS EXACTLY ONE WEEK TO THE DAY – THAT THE SUPREME COURT OF APPEAL -HAD FOUND ME INNOCENT ON ALL CHARGES THAT THE P SOLICITOR HAD PUT ME IN THE SLAMMER AND THE NUT HOUSE FOR!!! Yes, I had fought since 2002 to prove I was innocent. It cost me everything I had left and I went into debt. And I was overjoyed at winning. My name was cleared, no criminal record, justice (but no money back and the P solicitor still out there doing it to other women). Then BANG, one week later the p dentist called eight police and tried to have me arrested just like the P solicitor had.
This time, although he tried hard, the P didn’t win. But the PTSD that both my son and I went through, and the loss of the little bit I had, and him constantly sending police to my door, NEARLY DID ME IN. Without my son i would have lost the plot.
Some days are good, some days are bad.
I feel like a wounded soldier blown to simmerthereens, but you can’t see my injuries on the outside.
Thank God I found LF. Thank God I found LF before I realised my daughter is a pyscopath.
Otherwise i couldn’t have got through the pain.
xoxo

Dear Tilly,

We “win a few, and lose a few” is about all you can say in dealing with these monsters, unfortunately, as a general rule, we lose mroe than we win, because when the fight is not a “fair one” our chances of holding our own is reduced.

My son C jokingly says “If you’re fighting fair, you’re not doing it right” and with the psychopaths, that is for sure true. Problem is, we fight fair and they don’t, but we don’t know at the time the fight starts that they are ignoring the rules of a “fair fight”—-they have NO intention of a “fair fight.”

The thing is impossible for us to win at that point beause while we were “fighting fair” they were doing everything underhanded until we were so beaten down. By then we couldn’t fight at all. Which of course was their purpose in the first place.

With our P-children, we not only fought “fair,” we deliberately gave them the ADVANTAGE because we loved them, wanted the best for them, etc.

Keep on trucking, Tilly, we’re gonna “get there” before you know it! (((hugs)))) and my prayers as always!

Tilly: You are a courageous soul. I’m glad you’re here.

OxDrover,

“We “win a few, and lose a few” is about all you can say in dealing with these monsters, unfortunately, as a general rule, we lose mroe than we win, because when the fight is not a “fair one” our chances of holding our own is reduced.”

I agree with this but would like to add a couple of comments and some questions.

When I lost, it feels and looks like I lost more. What I mean is this…

When I lost, I felt like a lost of a love of someone I thought I knew only to learn later this person never existed at all.
When I lost, I felt like I lost a piece of myself. A history of me and her that was so important to me and in the end didn’t mean a thing to her.
Not only a lost of a person to me but more importantly a great lost to her children and herself.

How I remember when she lost custody of her two other children both in there tender years and how she received only “supervised visitation rights”. How I asked her why she never went to see them (this should have been the biggest red flag for me!!!) and her telling me how her ex husband would stare at her and “make her feel uncomfortable”. How in 17 years never once did I see her shed tears (another red flag I should have seen) for them. So I ask myself today how does she feel for the two who live with me now and what a great lost it would have been for me to have lost my children but not her?

This is why to me, I feel a “greater” lost….

As for any type of “wins”….

I remember once hearing how they are no “winners” in a war that there are only survivors. So in a way I really don’t feel like a winner but see and feel only “great lost” for so many others and for myself….

I know I should and am grateful for having my children with me but still I feel a great lost of her and for her.

I know now how I was always the one that “felt” for this relationship and that I still the one who “feels” for this past relationship. So in the end we are who we are and wonder just how much of this we can really change?

Tilly

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