This past week I was talking on the telephone with my student and research assistant when he was mugged by a group of 5-7 thugs. One hit him from behind, knocking him down and another punched him in the abdomen. Ironically, among the items stolen was a copy of “Without Conscience” by Robert Hare.
Yesterday, my student asked me, “Those guys in the group who do have empathy and guilt, how do they feel about doing this? What makes them do it?” To which I replied, “I don’t think they feel a thing. They are likely all psychopathic (sociopaths). No one wants to admit just how many of them there are. So they draw an artificial line based on the PCL-R (a psychopathy test) and say these thugs are psychopaths and these thugs are non-psychopaths. They call them non-psychopaths even though their scores on the test are far from normal. They do this because they want to hold on to hope that most of them can change.”
Dr. Reid Melloy, a forensic psychologist with years of experience working with criminals has a method of classifying them that I think is more correct. He has four groups, not two, based on the PCL-R, non-psychopaths, and mild, moderate and severe psychopathy. I do concede that the thugs that assaulted my student likely had the syndrome to varying degrees; and we know the ring leader is likely severely affected.
That gets me to a recent article that received a great deal of news coverage. In one Fox News article were comments from experts who in the past I have criticized for irresponsible public comments. The article discusses data from a study published in a top journal, it doesn’t give the title but it is, The Antisocial Brain: Psychopathy Matters a Structural MRI Investigation of Antisocial Male Violent Offenders.
The title should say, “the degree of psychopathy matters”. When you see stories like this you have to watch out because my colleagues have rotating definitions of psychopathy that they pull out depending on what they need to fit their data. In some studies like this one, they use a cut-off high PCL-R score. In other studies they separate offenders into groups depending on whether or not they show empathy and remorse. So groups may contain the same PCL-R score but be defined in terms of differing symptoms.
The study basically showed that higher scores on the PCL-R are associated with a higher likelihood of finding a shrunken “emotional brain”. Before you go writing me asking that your ex be forced to undergo an MRI which will prove the presence of psychopathy, let me tell you what is not in the news article. You cannot use an MRI scan to diagnose psychopathy.
A diagnostic test has to be sensitive, meaning that it picks up your ex and everyone else with the condition. Well we already know that there is mild, moderate and severe. So do we want the test to pick up the mild or the severe group? That will depend on what your ex actually scored on the PCL-R. I am sure that a “mild” case of psychopathy, does not make for a good life partner. That is why for the purposes of Love Fraud any comparison between “ASPD” and psychopathy is meaningless.
A diagnostic test also has to be specific meaning that only psychopaths show the abnormality. There is no test for psychopathy that is sensitive and specific enough to be useful. This article only shows us the obvious, that very high levels of psychopathy are more likely to be related to observable changes in the brain than are lower levels of psychopathy.
Since the brain produces behavior, their brains have to be different. The behavior they produce is different. All of the thugs who attacked my student to steal “without conscience” have something wrong with their brains.
Paranoia also ties in with their need to create a rivalry and win. They are always playing their game. My spath called it chess. He said, “I’m really good at playing chess.” I just thought: WTF? I’ve never seen you play chess ONE time in 25 years. How would you be good at it?
It was a different kind of chess he was referring to.
Could the paranoia be stemming from their feeling that they are different and might have missed something?
I keep seeing my P sister’s face in front of me during those times that she struck me as being paranoid/where-did-that-come-from?
She’d jumped to dire conclusions. “That means they’re doing X.” Huh?
Could that be because she lacked the human insight into what people with normal feelings, e.g., compassion, empathy, would do under those circumstances?
Lacking those feelings, she had to guess at what people might have felt and therefore, she took wild stabs at what people might do or what the outcomes would be.
It seems to me that was what was happening with her.
Has anybody noted anything along those lines with the Ps that they have known?
My son’s father, who is also a P, never did that. He couldn’t have cared less about the consequences.
I think my P sister expended a lot of energy into attempting to pull off that she was normal and maybe her fear was she had no idea what that was and if she was achieving it. However, that was not a constant. It happened infrequently, but when it did happen, it was noticeable because it wasn’t within normal behavior and conclusions. Most times, her arrogance and certainty were overwhelming.
On the paranoia, I think that they think everyone thinks like THEM, (mean) just as we think people think like us (nice) so of course they would be paranoid.
One time son D and I were visiting Patrick,, and I went to the bathroom and Patrick looked at D with that “evil LOOK” and said “I know you, you are just like me!” He had been trying to recruit son D to be his minion and to control me. It didn’t work, obviously, and he was trying to frighten D I think. He was frustrated that D wouldn’t buy his line of BS. He also thinks I think that D is out to get HIS (patrick’s) rightful inheritance. Well, I am here to tell you that there is no RIGHT to an inheritance from anyone. It is a GIFT not a right.
Yea, I think their own evil intentions are what they think we feel so that WOULD make them paranoid. Make them want to get us before we get them.
But he thought
Grace,
that’s a good point about them not being able to “feel” our good will toward them. That could be fuel for their paranoia.
It seems like we all agree that there is paranoia, but we still can’t be sure where it is rooted. I can tell you though that the spath HAS succeeded in making me MUCH less trusting than I used to be. It’s not exactly paranoia, but it’s a very distrusting nature that I have now and I miss my innocence. He slimed me with his own distrust.
I know a man who is very charming, a bit theatrical, displays a lot of emotions. I don’t trust him. Something about him puts me on edge, but not while he is there in my presence. It’s after he leaves, that I feel…strange… as if I’ve just been mined for my emotions.
I wonder if it’s just me, or is there something “off” about him. I don’t like how he talks about his wife. According to him she is a horrible woman but he didn’t leave her because of the kids: he didn’t want to pay child support. He is now getting ready to leave her. I just find the whole thing… strange.
I think their paranoia comes from all the nasty stuff they do to people. That’s where I think it comes from. That is enough to make them scared and paranoid, wondering who is going to do something back to them.
Oh yes, skylar, I can relate about distrusting people now, so very much. Slime is the right word for it too. My therapist keeps telling me that I need to force myself out in the world and just start living again. I don’t know how to do that.
This ‘man’ you speak of…remember your gut instincts, girl!!!
Obviously, there must be something ‘off’ or you wouldn’t be noticing it. It sounds like a very strange acquaintance. I would be careful lest you get bit again, Dearest.
Hey, Skylar, no, I don’t think it was you.
“It’s after he leaves, that I feel”strange” as if I’ve just been mined for my emotions.”
Is that how people usually leave you feeling? I doubt it. If people usually leave you feeling this way, there wouldn’t have been anything unusal to note about this guy.
If it were you, you’d leave feel liking you just had a normal, typical encounter.
You didn’t do anything out of your normal behavior, did you? There was no reason on your part why the encounter should have left you feeling off, was there? If you didn’t do anything out of the norm, then how you felt was due to what he did.
Your gut is sending up warning flares.
One another matter…the lame, insulting excuses and blame…
Doesn’t want to pay child support? Why not? Aren’t they his kids? Does he feel responsible to his children or not? This isn’t about the wife getting the money. It’s about taking care of his children. Big red flag right there.
I’ve heard the argument before. “But the wife will spend it on herself, not the children.” Really?
You’re saying that she neglects the children? Well, Mr. Responsibility/I am a saint, why haven’t you intervened and gotten you poor, neglected children out of that environment? Then you can make sure that their needs are met and your money is going directly to supporting them, because that’s what you want, right?
I’m supposed to buy how much you care about them? Gee, there are fathers who take their kids under their roofs and raise them on their own. I believe them when they say that they don’t think the mother is fit enough or decent enough to mother their children.
Can’t go that mile? Why not? I thought you care so deeply about the welfare of these children. Sounds to me that you’re only caring about your wallet.
Wife is horrible, but he has to stay. Really? Why?
Well, I certainly hope that with such a shrew for a wife (or however it is that she is being horrible) that he’s got those kids in therapy and spends gobs of time with them so they can have an emotionally healthy parent for a role model and some stability in their lives. No?
You don’t do that? Oh my. Why not? It would mean sacrificing too much of how you’re living now? It would cramp your style? Better that your kids suffer than for you to do without? That’s teaching your kids about priorities.
You can pick up their therapy bills later on in life when they struggle over why they feel they don’t matter. No? Not going to do that one either? Because they’d be emancipated and no longer your responsibility? Yeah, your concern for your children is overwhelming. Gag.
So you’re telling me that one of their parents is horrible and the other is just what? Selfish? A whiner? Or maybe you lied about their mother? Many red flags there.
The sexes in the above scenarios are interchangeable. I’ve heard the same argument for both sides of the fence and it never flies whoever is spinning the tale.
Back_from_the_edge
you said: ‘ I think their paranoia comes from all the nasty stuff they do to people.’
Hundreds of Buddhist Lamas are clapping in agreement. In Buddhism anger is considered to be a root emotion, which breeds other states of mind (whereas we generally talk about fear causing anger).
It is believed that being in a state of anger all of the time causes fear and paranoia in our minds.
Oxy, they would think that everybody thinks like them if they weren’t aware that they are different. My guess there must be some who are like that.
But, I suspect that my P sister is aware that she is somehow different, but doesn’t know why or how. I think that’s why she paranoid. It’s like trying to fix something you know is broken, but lack the tools or know-how entirely for doing the fixing.
Sky, talk about an oxymoron: ‘he didn’t leave her because of the kids: he didn’t want to pay child support’
HA! didn’t want to leave her because of ‘his’ money. I never trust anyone who speaks that way about their spouse. I am at an age that if someone tells me that things are bad at home, I say, ‘get out of there.’ but if someone tries to feed me crap about their spouse, i say, ‘get out of HERE!’
My comment to this (and forgive me I am writing this before reading the thread, as I have very strong feelings on this), is that you can SEE the differences in brain spects among normal brains and those that are not. I’ve seen them myself. If you’ll google on Amen spects you can plug in preferences (or at least it was this way) and look at brains that are depressed, after years of substance abuse (and I’m only talking coffee and nicotine here and there are holes in those brains). So I DO believe it’s possible to predict, based on brain spects, just what is going on and who is a likely candidate for sociopathy. JMHO.