By OxDrover
In the book Games People Play, by Dr. Erick Berne, M.D., he explains what he calls “strokes,” or social exchanges. It has long been known that people require social interaction with other people and that this is a biological requirement for life itself in some cases. In orphanages, children whose basic physical needs are met, but who are not held and cuddled, literally die from a condition called “failure to thrive.”
The term “stroke” can be used as a general term for any intimate physical contact, but in practice it may take many forms, including conversation and recognition of another’s presence. In Dr. Berne’s opinion, “any social intercourse (even negative intercourse) is better than no intercourse at all.” [Parenthetical explanation added.]
He says that in experiments with rats, it didn’t matter if they were handled gently or shocked with electric shocks, they received many benefits from the “strokes” over rats that were not “stroked” at all.
The purpose of social contact revolves around somatic and psychic equilibrium. It relieves tension, helps avoid noxious situations, procures strokes and maintains the established equilibrium.
We (humans) have a stimulus hunger and “strokes” help us avoid emotional starvation, which can lead to biological deterioration. Even the most hardened prisoners and convicts need strokes—they fear and dread the punishment of solitary confinement above all others.
In Games People Play, Dr. Berne explains the theory called “Transactional Analysis” which is used to visualize human interaction, both healthy and unhealthy interactions. This is represented by an “Internal Parent, an Internal Child, and an Internal Adult.” These are symbolized by P, A and C.
The P, or internal Parent, is composed of the “shoulds and should-nots” that you internalized from your primary caregiver as you grew up. The “tapes” inside the P can be both negative and positive, or nurturing and critical, such as, “You are so stupid” or “You are pretty.” These “tapes” are absorbed and believed without any “editing” by the internal Child.
The A, or internal Adult, is the rational part of you that says for example “two + two = four.” There are no emotional components to the internal Adult.
The C, or internal Child is made up, not of “childish” things, but is the part of you that is creative, loving, wondering and fun loving.
Our internal Child needs strokes and stimulation, and the job of the Adult is to meet those needs. Unfortunately, sometimes the Adult works on faulty information derived from the internal Parent. Therefore the Adult doesn’t do a good job of finding what the Child needs.
The Child may be continually punished or put down by the internal Parent, so is in continual pain or confusion about what he (or she) needs or wants to be happy.
If our upbringing has been nurturing, we will have a more nurturing Parent who will not continually “beat” our internal Child. We will have a nurturing Parent who will comfort our Child when it is scared, lonely, etc. If we have had a more Critical Parent implanted in our soul and mind, then our Child may feel that he is “Not OK” and continually seek ways to receive strokes that may be negative, but ”¦ better than no strokes at all.
Have you ever noticed that when you are around a two year old and you get on the telephone, the child immediately begins to try to get your attention? If pulling at your leg doesn’t work, or climbing in your lap, it won’t be long before a lamp goes over and breaks. The child has learned even by age two that they want attention and if “positive” behavior doesn’t get it, knocking over the lamp sure will. It may be negative behavior, but it does get your attention. Even negative strokes are better than no strokes.
Learning how to get positive strokes, and not resorting to negative stroke behavior, is a life-long learning process, especially if you grew up having difficulty receiving positive strokes from those closest to you.
Psychopaths learn how to give FAKE positive strokes to hook us in. Strokes that we accept at face value as positive, and come to depend on. Later, when we are addicted to the strokes from our own personal psychopath, the strokes turn negative and painful, but we are so addicted to receiving strokes from this “super stroker,” that, contrary to any messages from our internal Adult saying “Hey, there’s something wrong here,” we put tape over the mouth of the Adult to shut him up.
Or, our internal Parent, if it is more critical than nurturing, reminds us that we deserve these negative strokes because we are not worthwhile individuals worthy of respect.
Transactional Analysis also uses the “Triangle” of Rescuer-Persecutor-Victim. We and the psychopath learn to play the “triangle game,” changing chairs like a game of musical chairs. One day the psychopath is our Rescuer, and we are the Victim, then the next day we Persecute their role as Victim, and on the third day we Rescue their Victim, only to start and stop the “music” on an almost daily basis.
“Games” are unconscious maneuvers in which roles are accepted, the “triangle” is utilized, and there is a “pay off” at the end for all parties playing. Dr. Berne, in Games People Play, describes these “games.” He also shows us how we can stop playing “games,” which preclude intimacy, and get off the “triangle.” Some of the names of the various games are very descriptive, like, “Let’s you and him fight.” Other games are “Why don’t you, yes, but ”¦” “Alcoholic,” “Cops and robbers,” “Let’s pull a fast one on Joey,” “Look how hard I’ve tried,” and my all time psychopath’s favorite, “If it weren’t for you.”
Transactional Analysis may not explain everything about the human psyche, but it does go a great ways in making our inner and outer world understandable in a simple language. It gave me a way to think in an orderly fashion about the “internal dialog” between my Critical Parent tapes and my Child. It gave me a way to use my Adult to nurture the Child inside me and to hit the MUTE button on the critical Parental injunctions that kept me from insisting on respect and reasonable treatment from those closest to me. It helped me distinguish the fake positive strokes from the real positive strokes, and helped me to decide that I can stroke myself, and don’t have to depend on negative strokes to survive.
Books I would recommend for further reading are:
Games People Play by Dr. Erick Berne, M. D.,
I’m OK-You’re OK by Thomas Harris M. D.\
Scripts People Live, by Claude M. Steiner.
This is a really great approach to looking at OUR inner mechanisms, OUR motivations and how we ourselves relate to those around us. As we move into more positive interactions with others, we can examine our own motivations through this lens, and make more conscious choices about our interactions with NORMAL people.
However, we should not try to understand the psychopath through this model. When the FBI and their teams of psychologists and psychiatrists examined the Columbine shooters, Harris and Klebold, they uncovered important differences between the two. From a 2004 article, written by Dave Cullen and published in Slate, “Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were radically different individuals, with vastly different motives and opposite mental conditions.” Klebold appeared to be the more easily understood angry and depressed teenager. Harris, however, was remembered as “nice.” From an in-depth analysis of his actions and journals, the experts ultimately diagnosed Harris as “a psychopath.”
The article says, “Because psychopaths are guided by such a different thought process than non-psychopathic humans, we tend to find their behavior inexplicable. But they’re actually much easier to predict than the rest of us once you understand them. Psychopaths follow much stricter behavior patterns than the rest of us because they are unfettered by conscience, living solely for their own aggrandizement. (The difference is so striking that [FBI psychologist Dwayne] Fuselier trains hostage negotiators to identify psychopaths during a standoff, and immediately reverse tactics if they think they’re facing one. It’s like flipping a switch between two alternate brain-mechanisms.)
“None of his victims means anything to the psychopath. He recognizes other people only as means to obtain what he desires. Not only does he feel no guilt for destroying their lives, he doesn’t grasp what they feel. The truly hard-core psychopath doesn’t quite comprehend emotions like love or hate or fear, because he has never experienced them directly.”
The article quotes extensively from Dr. Robert Hare as well, and it is an illuminating look at the differences between “normal” aberrant behavior, and the psychopathic. http://www.slate.com/id/2099203/
As a side note, Thomas A. Harris, M.D., author of “I’m OK — You’re OK,” was a noted psychologist and his work has had a major influence. He is NOT the author Thomas Harris who wrote “The Silence of the Lambs” and other books describing the infamous Hannibal Lecter.
Oxy, this is great stuff. I’ve heard from other people that TA was really helpful to them. The only piece I knew about was the Drama Triangle.
My understanding was that the only way out of the triangle was to act on your own behalf, rather than being eternally conscious of everyone else’s position. And that would, inevitably, make you the Persecutor from their perspective, because you weren’t being sufficiently conscientious about considering their issues.
I’m not sure if I have that right, but the idea has helped me when I felt like I was being stretched (like on a rack) between a lot of things other people wanted me to do and think, and I had to risk irritating them to get back in touch with myself.
Don’t sociopaths like to position themselves as the victims to try to get us to rescue them?
KH,
It seemed more to me like the XS/P liked to position himself as the victim but like to always “look like the rescuer”. He hated EVER appearing weak to me or others. He LOVED when people viewed him as the SEAL hero that he never was. Or when he worked in the biker bar as a bouncer and they used to call him “Super (insert name here)”.
Ox,
In fact the more I read about BPD, his issues seem consistent with this disorder, particularly a touch of psychosis, considering he tells people he was a SEAL and worked killing terrorists for the NSA. But from what I read it seems this is predominantly a female disorder? What do you know about it?
Kathleen,
It seems to me (IMHO only) that the “games” that they play are a way of appearing to “emote” and since the “rules” are easily observed, and the “moves” from one position to another are easily predictable, by observation they learn the “moves” to the various games.
They get the “pay off” with out really being able to”feel” anything much but rage. The participants in games don’t actually “realize” consciously that they are in a “game” or it then becomes a “maneuver” or something consciously done.
I think the Ps also learn to do these things consciously because they know if they throw out the “hook” that we will pick it up as bait and the “game is ON.” We of course don’t know it is a “game” but THEY are maneuvering us where they want us.
An example I read in a book once about TA was a person “looking for a fight.”
The person who is “It” (wants to play) comes home and throws out a hook (bait.)
I”ll call him White, he comes home and says to his wife, in an irritated voice “Where are my cuff links” (what he is actually doing, is APPEARING to ask for information –an Adult to adult conversation—but what he is actually doing is going to a short cut from previous games that really says “What the hell did YOU do with my cuff links, you’re such a lousy housekeeper.”
Now, Black, the wife can either play the game or avoid the game, depending on how she feels that day. If she wants to play and get into a fight before they go to the opera she says, “Well, White, look for them yourself, you lazy chit what do you think I am, your personal maid?”
Or if Black wants to avoid the game she says (ignoring his under tone of criticism) “They are on your dresser dear.”
Now, if he REALLY wants to fight, he will continue to throw out hooks with more and more “appealing” bait to make her want to take it so he can take out his anger aggression or whatever he is wanting an excuse to do.
Reading and learning about games can help you “see” some of these obvious ploys on their part. I always loved the names they gave them which really describe the games well and give you a laugh at the same time.
Playing “games” doesn’t necessarily mean you are a psychopath, but the psychopaths are very good at playing games where the pay off is they control your moves, and belittle you.
TA also goes in to the “positions”that we take early in life: “I’m okay-you’re okay” or I’m not okay–you’re ok” or I’m not Ok and You’re not OK, and I’m OK and You’re Not OK.
The psychopaths seem to be stuck in the “I’m OK and You’re NOT OK” position, especially the arrogant ones like my P son and my P-bio father. This is a difficult position because they are continually seeking “strokes” (notice) from others, but since others are NOT OK, those strokes are not “valuable” strokes since they come from NOT OK people. It is a pretty bad “catch 22” for those people in that position and they are never “satisfied.”
Since most of the books on TA are written for the “public” reader, rather than for the professional, and are written in such a way that they are fairly easily understood, I recommend reading on this subject as an adjunct to our other information on our healing journey.
Most of us play benign “games” such as “Water Cooler” (where people talk around a water cooler) for a past time, and they really don’t do a lot of damage to our psyches, but the “hard core” third-degree “games” that the psychopaths play with us can lead to “tissue damage” or death! It also gives us an idea when we recognize a “game” they have been playing, how to avoid picking up the hook in the bait. To stop playing games we are accustomed to, we must first recognize that is what is happening, and then we have to make a conscious decision not to “”play.”
Ox Drover: This example has helped me so much. I am someone who need to learn not to take the bait of a sociopath…bait, after all, is WORM! LOL. I appreciate this.
KF,
Just as more males are diagnosed as Ps, more females are diagnosed as BPDs. There are some aspects of BPD such as many of them cut themselves or do other self harm that generally is not found in PPD persons. Though, according to an article I think on LF by Dr. Leedom, BPDs can sometimes behave as PPDs, especially when under a great deal of stress or fear. My XDIL has aspects of both BPD and PPD, and I am not really sure which she would be diagnosed clinically but the point is, it doesn’t matter, she is a TOXIC person.
BPDs have the “Oh, I just met you and you are my best friend/lover etc” aspect to them that the Ps do, courting you either as a friend or lover very quickly and wanting to establish a bond with you. They will frequently just as the Ps do, do all kinds of nice things for you in an effort to get you “obligated” to them.
BPDs seem to have more of a “Push-pull” thing than the PPDs do, but frankly I wonder if the PPD and BPD are actually the same thing or very closely allied, maybe the hormones make the differences between the two sexes. Personally, if you label them ALL “TOXIC” you will cover the field, so which is which is really pretty much a moot point I think except for clinical trials, for our lives, “if it looks like a duck….”
Ox-D & KF: I’ve heard BPD described as a “little PPD.” I got mixed up with one in a work/roommate situation this past year. She told me early on that she had been diagnosed “BPD.” Since I was working for her business and staying in a room in her house, I had an up-close look at her behavior, beginning to end. This was not a friendship/lover situation at all, so there weren’t any emotional ties for her to yank on, but frankly her behavior was fully as toxic and destructive as any psychopathic abuser I’ve ever heard of. She used rage to control her environment, but could put on a very persuasive facade for anyone new that she thought she could use. Remorseless about defrauding people: the kind of thing you don’t really know until you’ve witnessed the pattern over time. And, no, she didn’t pay me for my work.
I don’t know who made the “BPD” diagnosis, but I’d say — having witnessed her business dealings and her interactions with family (including young children) and “friends,” I’d just call her a full-blown P. Laughing gleefully after she’d soaked her 10-yr-old granddaughter who was helping her in the garden on a cold day in May, etc., etc.
There was a great article here a while back comparing sociopaths to borderlines. I will see if I can find it. It helped me a lot as I have dealings with one of each.
here is a link if I can get it to come through to some more information on TRansactional analysis and Dr Eric Berne, the originator of the concept.
http://www.businessballs.com/transact.htm
Not sure why that didn’t link up, but maybe you can copy it and paste into your browser.
A simple google search will give you lots of hits on Eric Berne.
Rune, I agree with you a BPD can be AS DESTRUCTIVE as a PPD and some of them are quite capable of murder. It does help when we are not emotionally involved with these people and allows us to get out at least emotionally unscarred but sometimes they can wreck our lives anyway, and they tend to be stalkers as well. They seem to me at least to LOVE revenge when you “injure” them.
I have had several of them admit to me that they ahd been diagnosed BPD (almost proudly in some cases) and I don’t think they really “get” the true meaning of that diagnosis.
My husband rented one of our rental units to a gal that I quickly sized up as a BPD, she was coming on to me hard and fast wanting to be my “best friend” (that’s a big clue usually) and I kept her at arm’s length but she did tell me that she had been diagnosed as BPD and also bi-polar (which actually makes me think she might have been a misdiagnosed PPD, but she was a “piece of work” I can tell you for sure. Beautiful young woman and very bright, but I think she was dangerous and I am glad I spotted her right away as “off.” At least that ONE time I spotted that one before I got hooked in.
One thing I noticed in working with adolescents with that dx in an inpatient setting was that one minute they would be trying to claw your eyes out and the next minute wanting to hug you. They saw NOTHING strange with this “180 degree about face” in a period of 2 minutes.
Yep, they are scary!
Thanks for the responses Rune and Ox…..and yea I know if it walks like a duck…….it doesn’t really matter. What do you think about this though? This issue is disturbing to me because when the “chit hit the fan” (as Oxy would say)…..he came on accuing me of having BPD. He is not very savvy with a computer so I don’t think it’s something he came up with out of “concern for me” as he said. I DO think he may have been diagnosed and was projecting. Plus, he has these psychotic ideas of being a legend and killing on behalf of the US gov’t and I have the facts. He was kicked out of the Navy after 4 months. or is this something consistent with a P also??? What do you guys think? I honestly don’t see a big difference in what I read. I say BPD because he plays the role of appearing to have a conscience very well. But I don’t think most people will see the other side of him.
I do agree that any are capable of murder. His mood could go from 0 to 100 in 3 seconds. HE definately played the obligated card….. “I moved here to be with you”. “I left my family to be with you” Hell, I didn’t ask you to move and you told me you were already divorced asswipe!! Sorry.
OK, coming from a beginner, I’m afraid I’m having a problem with a lot of the acronyms on this site, let’s start with BPD and PPD… I finally figured out D & D. There’s another one, Oxy I’ve seen you use it a lot about 6 characters long, it almost feels like a name but I’ can’t ever figure out what it is. I’ll look for it and bering it up later.
The other thing I wanted to say was in regard to the article, really great BTW (see I know that one – LOL). Much of the therapy I have been involved with in the past has been about honoring the pain of the inner child. Literally imagining her in a chair across from me and being able to see her hurt, or what her needs are (that has always been tough for me, recognizing my needs) . Reprograming the words that caused the hurt to begin with (what did she need to hear) and when I found myself in a situation where that hurt was triggered, replacing the shaming, disconnected, belittling voice with one filled with compassion, love or whatever was needed. It has helped me heal some of those old wounds and give me a little more heart when I totally screw up (like being involved with a S). It’s not foolproof by a long shot, but very helpful and with time I have gotten better and better at it.
Oxy, we had an exchange here last week I think, regarding the x neighbors and you had said they really don’t care what goes on or went on as long as they are not affected…..here’s something I thought about. None of us really knew we were being affected until later. We may not have felt comfortable with certain things but it took most of us a while to realize something not right was happening.
So the S/P buys a lot, not just in their subdivision, but right next door. Then he moves his x con friend in and convinces everyone what a nice guy he is (in and out of prison most of his 45 years). They have loud parties and women in and out. Then the x con’s sister (former stripper, S/P’s girlfriend moves in. The whole family comes and parks in the front yard (all the brothers have been in jail at one time or another) with their bikes and work on trucks. (trying to set the scene).
Suddenly the neighbor is convinced to tell his children that Joe the x con was “in college”. The S/P thinks this is funny. Because he came up with the idea. So they are already getting conned and roped into something that I believe would otherwise be unacceptable. Who wants to be in a neighborhood of $400,000 plus homes with music blasting outside and engines revving day and night? I think they ARE affected they just don’t know it yet. I think they didn’t care when it was me and him. But I do think at some point they will care if they haven’t seen it already. Don’t you? What do you think?