When Donna and I talked with Dr. Hare last week, he addressed the question of whether or not all psychopaths are criminals. He also sent us a paper he wrote on this topic. He said that it is possible for a person to score high on the PCL-R and not have an arrest record and not to have committed felonious crimes. He insisted, though, that “antisocial behavior” is central to the disorder and is found in all people who score highly on the PCL-R. The paper he wrote has the following quote regarding Dr. Hervey Cleckley, the psychiatrist who wrote the first book describing psychopathy.
Cleckley (1976) noted that he was “in complete accord” with the description of the psychopath as “simply a(n) antisocial individual” (p. 370). “Not only is the psychopath undependable, but also in more active ways he cheats, deserts, annoys, brawls, fails, and lies without any apparent compunction. He will commit theft, forgery, adultery, fraud, and other deeds for astonishingly small stakes, and under much greater risks of being discovered than will the ordinary scoundrel.”
If all psychopaths/sociopaths are by definition antisocial, then are all individuals who commit antisocial acts sociopaths/psychopaths? As described in the statement above, sociopaths/psychopaths are distinguished by how readily they commit antisocial acts. As the DSM puts it, a sociopath has a pervasive pattern of cheating, lying and disregarding the rights of others. Other recent scientific writers have equated “career criminals” to psychopaths, the idea being that career criminality indicates a pervasive pattern, not just a one or two poor choices.
Since many antisocial behaviors are also illegal, separating criminality from sociopathy/psychopathy is not that straight forward in practice. Where would we find a sociopath who does not engage in criminal deeds? Two groups set out to identify college students with psychopathic personality traits. They used a battery of psychological tests. On the basis of fancy statistics they identified a group of people they called “aberrant self promoters” (ISPs) These people promoted their own self-interest without regard to the rights of others.
Interestingly, as a group ISPs (like psychopaths) are characterized by the combination of narcissism and antisocial behavior. A close look at the group also revealed that they were not particularly law abiding citizens. One of the studies actually measured levels of psychopathy in aberrant self promoters. The average score for the group was 15, well below the cut off of 30 needed to diagnose “psychopathy.” It is also well below the average PCL-R score found in incarcerated criminals. This comparison indicates that many criminals are significantly psychopathic and that their levels of psychopathy exceed those of community “successful psychopaths.” The authors estimated the prevalence of ASP to be 10 percent of the non-incarcerated population. That is a lot of people who are significantly narcissistic and antisocial—but not necessarily felons.
Over the last three weeks I have discussed sociopathy as the combination of narcissistic personality traits and antisocial behavior. I can now say a few more things about psychotherapy and behavior therapy for sociopaths. Most therapy is aimed at reducing the antisocial behaviors that are so central to the disorder. Therapy has been found to be effective in reducing antisocial behaviors in people who are at the lower end of psychopathy/sociopathy. The high end folks are characterized by greater treatment resistance and more difficulty with change.
At the higher end of psychopathy, we see people who are very narcissistic and very antisocial. This combination is especially treatment resistant because grandiose people never think they have a problem.
I also heard again from one of our readers who is struggling to break away from a spouse who is psychopathic and in prison. If you are struggling to break away from a very harmful, antisocial, narcissistic person please help yourself by spending time with some loving, prosocial people. If you do not have anything to contrast the sociopath’s behavior to, it is easy to forget how abnormal they are. Even according to the most lenient criteria, psychopaths at most make up 10 percent of the population. Ask yourself if you want to spend the rest of your life with someone who is at heart, worse than an “ordinary scoundrel.”
Dear Perky
I know exactly how you feel. I’ve had a lifetime of people telling me I’m not good enough.
When I was a child my mother often told me I was rubbish, nothing to be proud of and that I was just like my father (who she hated). I always thought I was a huge burden and not worth much so I was astonished when my elder sister told me a few years ago (I’m 36 now) that I was a really sweet and well-behaved child. Fortunately my relationship with my mother has changed over the years (after many fights and much drama) and now we get on very well, have quite a close loving relationship in fact…as long as I maintain the boundaries and she continues making the effort to toe the line. I think that shows there is still hope for some people.
When I grew up I went to work for my brother who spent the next 17 years picking at my confidence and the sense of self-worth that I’d managed to build up. I was never good enough, no matter how hard I tried. I endured being shouted at, gossiped about, having my character “analysed” and found wanting…so much else it would take too long to type.
And then I got involved with a psychopath! Can I pick them or what? His technique was more subtle than theirs but in the end he left me with the same feeling – that being me wasn’t good enough somehow.
I still struggle with feelings of inferiority. I still have a sense of not being good enough. I suppose that’s why I’ve always gone out of my way to help everyone around me…so I can “earn” their affection and love. Just being me never seemed like enough. Intellectually I know that’s not true. I know that I am good enough…more than good enough…and I am more than worthy of being loved. But I haven’t yet grasped that emotionally. I suppose that deep-seated belief in myself will come with time and effort.
Oxy & Odette,
Thank you for being so understanding. As Odette says, I know all of this intellectually, but my emotional state says different. It is hard when two parts of yourself fight each other.
I was taught as a child to not look in the mirror and tell yourself you are pretty, cute, whatever—this is conceited. Do not ask “why”, the answer will always be “because I said so damnit”. Children are to be seen, but not heard. No public affection…EVER. My dad and step mom lived 5 miles out of town, (country town). They would always “go into town” for coffee leaving us kids alone in the boonies, they would do this for most of the 6 weeks we were to visit, I would want to scream, “Please take us with you” but did not dare. That was just the way things were. My mom was the same way, always at her boyfriends house, leaving us at home. Thus, the feeling like you were “less than” or not good enough. And, you didn’t dare speak up or mom would give the cold shoulder or daddy would give you that “look”. So, I learned how to “stuff” my emotions back inside of me and be quiet.
I don’t blame either one of them for who I am today because as of 18 years old, I began to be responsible for who I am and my choices. I just wish I would have out grown the feelings of not being good enough. I also feel as though I need to “earn” peoples affection. I truly am working on these feelings. “Follow your head not your heart” sorta thing.
My son turned out to be a fine young man, for 18 years I was a single parent and I know that had everything to do with me, my morals and values. He would not have learned to be the good, kind, caring (sometimes a little snot) person he is today if I had not shown him part of the way. (See,…I can do positive).
Dear Perky,
Well, that post answers a lot of questions about your self esteem, doesn’t it. Apparently you were the child of two Narcissistic or psychopathic people yourself and that is the way they treat their children. It does leave some scars on our souls, but now that you are an adult, this is the thing that you have to work on. There are many sites on the net about ACON (adult children of narcissists) I think you might do well to google some of them and see what information you can get.
BEing an ACON is almost a “season ticket” to becoming a “victim” of the psychopaths because the way they treat us seems so “normal”—just the way mom and dad treated us. We fall hook, line and sinker for the “honeymoon” stage cause we have never been treated so nicely before and it makes us think we have found “Heaven on earth” and then the abuse starts—well, everyone treated us that way, so….and so on. You know the rest of the story.
My P-bio-father was a BIG TIME P, my mother is a dyed in the wool TOXIC ENABLER, and I have a family history going back generations of Ps and enablers. Now though, I am going to STOP the CYCLE with me. IT ENDS WITH ME. I am glad that your son didn’t continue the cycle, so maybe your “family heritage” will end with you.
No child deserves to be treated that way, but because we don’t have anything else to show us what “real parental love” is we assume that the verbal and emotional (and sometimes physical) abuse we were given is “normal.”
We have to educate ourselves emotionally and intellectually, and that’s a difficult task, but it CAN BE DONE. So, hang in there! Keep working on healing. A lot of the things the P did to you will bring out some of these old fears, pains, etc. but it gives you a chance to “clean out the closet” and sweep up all the supressed pain and emotions. In the end, the P-experience may set you free and on a better road than you have ever been on. I actually feel now that this P-experience, as painful as it was, and still is sometimes, is a BLESSING FROM GOD that FREED me from all these old wounds. ((((hugs))))
Until I realized what my mother is I wasn’t able to process all the other wounds, the losses. Now that I am NC from her, I am making BIG STEPS toward healing. I’m working on getting the bitterness against her out of my heart, accepting that she is what she is, and isn’t going to change, she did what she did, I can’t change the past, but I am SURE AS HECK GONNA CHANGE THE FUTURE! STARTING WITH TODAY.
It’s too bad we can’t see ourselves through the eyes of many folks that we come in daily contact with.
I know that when I meet a genuinely kind, sweet, sincere person that they have a powerful effect on me. They leave an indelible mark on my heart and I think of them quite often, even if our chance meeting was short.
These wonderful people are constant reminders of the beauty and the good that is all over this great big planet Earth.
I have chosen to view myself through the compassionate, merciful, loving eyes of the Lord. He loves and accepts me just the way I am, because he created me this way. I am beautiful in his eyes.
My gentle, caring, empathetic, compassionate nature is my solid strength and not my weakness. That goes for you all, including you, Perky.
You have risen above the terrible experiences of your past and maintained your loving beautiful spirit through the grief and sorrow. Please don’t forget how powerful and strong you are. And incredibly wonderful. **hugs**
Dear Sweet Janie,
As usual you are so incredibly poetic and so right on! YES!!!!! You know I think some of us have all kinds of self esteem issues, either from a psychopathic or narcissistic parent(s) or something else and when we get blindsided by the Ps it crushes our spirit even more. Building up our own self esteem, and seeing ourselves for the remarkable people that we are is so difficult for me at least, and I would guess, many of us.
I know about myself sometimes (frequently) when I do something, I pick at the flaws, rather than seeing what a remarkable thing I have accomplished. Just like in the years we have been here at the farm, it had gone back to “brush” and ruin and now, compared to then, it looks like a park or a golf course and when people come here they rave about how beautiful it is etc. Yet, when I look out across it I see the things that still need doing, a fence wire not quite straight, or a weed up by a fence, etc. rather than focus on the POSITIVE accomplishements. I’m aware of this and I try to reframe my focus, but with so much going on in my head, sometimes I let this slide and go back to being “negative”—thtnks for pointing out the POSITIVE, I’m gonna make that THIS WEEK’S PROJECT—-FOCUS ON THE POSITIVE, COUNT MY BLESSINGS, AND QUIT THINKING ABOUT THE THINGS STILL LEFT TO DO. ((((hugs))))) and thanks, Janie!
good morning friends and good night. im still awake from yesterday at 7pm bc im at work. its just one of those days were i cant image how everything we shared and had together he just up and moved on. already having another girlfriend. i shouldt be shocked its the same girl he was cheating on me with. its just the shock of it. how do you just get all comfy with someone new in less then two months. its such an unbelievalbe feeling that someone can be that way. its like he is continuing what we were or was with her. the funny thing is he denys that he is dating her. i read and read all this books about these bad people and i get it. just accepting that i didt mean anything to him for two years, that for two years he was just playing a game with me. going along with me, stringing me along. how can people be so heartless?? how can you share a bed with me for two years and then once iam gone share it with someone else. my mind just doest wrap around that. how do you give yourself to more then one person at a time? how does that not feel odd? sorry just rambling on this early morning.
Blondie I don’t think we ever wrap our head’s around that. It would be impossible for a normal loving caring person with good moral’s, value’s and a conscience to do such a thing. He is not normal, he is a Sociopath. All the analyzing in the world and we will never understand why, I guess we have to accept that – that is what they do and just move on and stay away from people that are so strange and evil…
Blondie, my ex. went straight onto someone else within a month after he and I had a very intense 14 month relationship – that said everything to me – that deep down, he really COULDNT care for me – and that really hurt. He even sent a message through a mutual acquaintaince to ‘tell me’ that he had found a girlfriend who was 13 years younger – it worked, I was and still am deeply hurt.
See Henry, I notice that there are more men coming to this site.
Beverly – My X moved in with a guy 40 I am 53. I think that hurt’s our ego regardless of what label we put on it….