By | September 7, 2007 34 Comments

ASK DR. LEEDOM: How can I get my ____ away from the psychopathic con artist?”

This week I will propose a strategy for helping a family member break free from a con artist/sociopath. The conclusions I have come to about how best to do this are based on the information regarding the techniques these people employ that I explained last week in Coercive persuasion, mind control and brain washing.

Sociopaths establish control over a person little by little, BITE by BITE. Remember, BITE stands for behavior, information, thoughts and emotions. To help your loved one, you have to BITE back. Take a look at the situation and see how you can gently facilitate your loved one gaining back autonomy over his/her daily behavior. Try to always appear affirming and loving so that it will be difficult for the sociopath to come up with an excuse to exclude you from their lives. See your loved one as frequently as possible. Be a source of real information, in contrast to the lies your loved one is being told by the sociopath.

The sociopath will set up situations that narrow, yet intensify, the range of emotions your loved one feels. Be as much of a source of warmth and encouragement that you can. Try to resist any temptation to disparage the sociopath. The responsibility for recognizing the evil in the sociopath has to come from the person him or herself. If the person complains about his/her life, do not react emotionally, instead be a good listener and point out the feelings you see. If you become angry and say to the effect, “How dare he/she treat you this way!” You will see your loved one defend the sociopath, and make you shoulder the emotions he/she should be having about the situation. Instead, your loved one has to personally own all the negative feelings about the sociopath.

While you should be loving and supportive, don’t render any practical aid as long as the person is still with the sociopath. For example, do not give or lend money or take your loved one in until you are sure the relationship is over. The only exception to this rule is in regards to your loved one’s children. Do not stop babysitting even though this is rendering aid. Chances are the children need a break away from the sociopath.

Realize that your loved one may be subjected to these coercive influence tactics:

• Selective reward/punishment
• Denigration of self and of critical thinking
• Dissociative states to suppress doubt and critical thinking
• Alternation of harshness/threats and leniency/love
• Control-oriented guilt induction
• Active promotion of dependency
• Debilitation
• Physical restraint/punishment

Combat these tactics by bringing up the good you see in your loved one. Talk about his/her past successes. Help your loved one reconnect with a sense of autonomy and competency. Encourage your loved one to be more independent. For example, women often stop driving. If this has happened, say something like, “I always thought you were a good driver.” Use compliments and other supportive comments as much as you can genuinely do so. If you do, the contrast between you and the sociopath will eventually be felt by your loved one.

Patiently wait for the honeymoon phase of the relationship to be over. Since Sociopaths, at first, don’t act like jerks you will have to wait for the “jerk” phase to begin. When the situation escalates and you feel the time is right, you can chance talking to your loved one about the sociopath. Instead of labeling the sociopath, I think you might have more success if you point out that some people “love by control.” You can then name the above tactics that these people use to gain control over others, and give examples of what you have observed here. You can say, “I’ve heard that people who love by control aren’t capable of real love”¦tough spot to be in.” It is very likely that, in the beginning, you will not be able to convince your loved one that the sociopath doesn’t love him/her and is a complete fraud. That is why I suggest you not try to do that. Instead point out the harmful dynamics of control. People need some amount of freedom in order to be healthy and happy.

If you are in this very difficult situation and your loved one is in the grip of a sociopath, don’t give up hope. Every one of us here at Lovefraud was once in that situation. I will be forever thankful that my dear parents were there for me when I needed them most. May that also be your happy ending.

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Thank you so much for this excellent post, Dr. Leedom. I have a friend who is in this situation with her daughter and has to deal with the need to clam up about her feelings or be left out of the loop.

Ox Drover

Dear Liane,

This is wonderful advice, I wish I had followed any of it back when my son was married to the Psychopath. Whew! Good information.

I ended up doing most things wrong, and of course she isolated him from us even before the marriage, so just keeping my mouth shut was about all I could do. Biting big holes in my tongue.

I was fortunate that she eventually tried to kill him (thank God did not succeed) but in retrospect, ANYTHING less than that would NOT have shaken him loose from her, he would have continued to ‘try to make it work”—he took his marriage vows VERY seriously and was determined to stick with it no matter what it took. I’m pretty stubborn myself, so “his apple didn’t fall far from my tree.” LOL

I had actually given up “hope” of him being saved from her, when my prayers were answered in a dramatic way. The waiting is the worst part, and as I prayed I wanted results “NOW,” but I think God is teaching (or trying to anyway) me patience.


I think it is great advice, too. I am still amazed at how powerful the psychopath is at controlling, manipulating, twisting things, etc.

My daughter is like Oxy’s son. She will do anything to “make it work” and takes her vows very seriously.

I also think it is interesting how many very accomplished women come to a point in their lives where to “have someone tell me what to do” and “be in charge” looks so appealing?!? Do they just get tired of all that over achieving?


excellent advice – I wish I had had someone acting like this for me on ‘the outside’!


My problem is that my son doesn’t doesn’t realize there’s a problem. The way she handles him is with a raft of lies and deceptions, somebody out there impersonating her doing these things. She is just the poor innocent victim and he buys it. I once though I had her caught but instead what we got was an spath concerto of lies to cover up other lies to cover up other lies to cover up other lies, etc. It was quite an awful show.

So, how do we get them to realize there is a problem? I can’t say ANYTHING about her or the effect on him without him flying into defense mode, angry at me. Unfortunately I don’t have those times of “jerk” where he may be vulnerable to discussion because he never sees it.




If this woman has a “past” maybe that would be where to start collecting evidence that what she says is not true. Facts speak.

I know for me, finding the facts made all the difference because until then I believed that I had no reason not to believe.


Thanks Silvermoon,

Unfortunately they are both 18 so there isn’t a “past” at all. But there is a “present” and I am actually thinking of going into super sleuth mode. Have I in fact lost my mind now??????


Wow! This arrived just as I had an email from spath’s ex to say she’d taken him back…..again.
I have tried my best to explain what he is but he’s wormed his way back in to her affections.

I think little by little she is ‘getting it’ but I have decided to go no contact with her so long as he is there with her.

She’s a lovely person and I want to shout from the rooftop HE’S USING YOU.

I’ve sent her edited bits from here and I think she’s wising up.

I remember people telling me but I was not ready to listen to them. I kept defending him as she is doing now.

Hopefully she will see the light before too long.

So thank you for this post it’s helping me to understand that I need to give her the time and space to ‘get there’

lesson learned


Let him go. This is toxic to you.

You can do nothing but let him learn the lesson and be supportive when it goes south.



As a mom, what you are asking seems impossible. I love my son and we have raised him so carefully and have always been there for him. I will say that I no longer bring up the subject in such a way that I hope he can get it on his own but as a mom, I quietly worry in the background which is what brings me here.

And I shutter to think of the one whose spath tried to kill their son…toxic? I don’t think there is a word to even describe the despair and the “what if’s” that would plague me for the rest of my lifeless existance.

Ox Drover

Dear Lisa,

I posted to you on another thread before I knew the entire story of your son (being 18) and so on. I’m not sure if he is still living at home, etc. or if they are living together.

For right now though, I would simply relax (I KNOW, HARD TO DO!) and sit back and know that MOST OF THESE ROMANCES AT THIS AGE SELF DESTRUCT on their own sooner or later. Just hope and pray it is before there is a child. Sometimes the P females will deliberately get preg in order to hang on to control of a male victim.

Kids at this age think they know everything any way, and I can relate to that because at 18 I KNEW EVERYTHING THERE WAS TO KNOW IN THE WORLD… I know I don’t even know all the questions much less the answers. LOL

I just finished a great book called “a mind of its own< how our brain deceives us" (there is a book review here on the blog) by Dr. Cordelia Fine, and it is GREAT! I suggest that you get it and read it and you will be able to see some of what your son is doing to himself….convincing himself that he is in love and she is in love with him and that they are "happy"—also, you are working under the "I am his mom and therefore I can and need to fix this some way to protect him."

UNFORTUNATELY, THIS ABOVE "MOM RULE" is no longer operable. It stops working when they are about 6 or 8…if not before then.

Believe me, I had to let one carefully raised, loved and nurtured son "go" BECAUSE HE IS THE PSYCHOPATHIC PREDATOR (he is in prison for murder and at his recent parole hearing I hired an attorney to FIGHT TO KEEP HIM IN PRISON) and I had to let the other son go (the one whose P wife tried to kill him) because though he is not a psychopath, he is not respectful or honest with me….I'm down to 1 son out of 3, but that one son is a joy to my soul and heart. It is extremely painful to let a child go their own way when we KNOW that they are "going over fool's hill" in a bobsled with a tail wind, but actually there is nothing we can do to save them from themselves. I wish there were. ((((hugs))))


She did break up with him but he begged and pleaded and was a mess until she took him back. Just like an addict looking for a fix which is how spaths seem to tailor it. In truth I think the break up was to get him more bowing to her wishes. If this were a short lived thing I probably wouldn’t be too worried but this has been 2 years now and should have run its course already if typical of young relationships.

Unfortunately, though I wish there were one, this is no biological tome where maternal instinct peters out. It stays with us, damn it! LOL. He lives at college so he lives at home only part time.

You said that you had to let your son go and learn on his own about his spath. Is he back? In other words, is he back in the family and whatever else he was let go from?

Ox Drover


Son C the one who married the P was “back”—and for about 2 years we had a pretty good relationship, then he moved back home and it was still pretty good until last year when he lied to me, and I caught him. Not a “big” lie, but a premeditated lie none the less, and I do NOT tolerate lies. I told him he had to leave my house and I have been essentially NC with him since then.

I have not seen him in over a year, and the only contact has been via e mails about his brother’s parole hearing and I did “interpret” an MRI he had done into “english” for him (I am a retired advanced practice nurse) but that is the ONLY contact either I or his adoptive brother have had with him. He is “own his own.” It isn’t like with the P son that I know is out to have me killed at the first chance he gets, but none-thje-less I do not want anything to do with son C, I don’t “do” liars and people who are dishonest.

And frankly, it isn’t just about the ONE lie he told me last year—a “small” lie, it is the fact that really since he was a teenager every chance he got to join some “posse” that was going out to “hunt me down and kill me” he may not have been the LEADER, but he was there riding along, not warning me that his brother or others were out to do me dirt or harm, even when he KNEW IT. I asked him once why he didn’t tell me that the Trojan Horse had control of my cell phone account and was running it up to hundreds of dollars a month, ordering thins on my credit card, etc. and he said “Wellll, I told him not to.” WTF? He “told him not to?” What about WARNING ME or calling the cops! Nah, he may have said “sorry” but he isn’t ACTING like he is sorry, and that is what I am going to go on.

King David in the Bible was a sinful man, but yet he was called “a man after God’s own heart.” WHY? Because he would REPENT of his sins and change his ways. My son C is still a liar and hasn’t in my opinion repented or changed his ways. St. Paul said that when we had tried to talk to a “brother” who was Doing something we knew was wrong, and then with witnesses and then talk to the other Christians and if that didn’t work, treat them like a heathen, not even to eat with them. That is NO CONTACT as far as I can tell.

I can’t stay away from everyone in the world who is a liar, and continues to lie, or who is abusive in other ways, I just don’t have to intimately associate with them.

lesson learned


SOn C and the lie he told you, the things he’s done, going along with the psycho crowd, so to speak…..isn’t that kind of passive aggressive? Is it possible he had anger at you but someone else was the one to do it by proxy? LIke feeding off of one another?

I know that my kids have lied to me at one time or another. There is only ONE child that I would NOT allow into my life, except at a distance and that is the one with my grandchildren whom I highly suspect is N. I don’t know that I agree that one lie told tells the whole story as there are reasons people lie at times it’s hella different than a psychopaths lies for sure.. I think I saw an article on it here…..

Could you clarify for me why you will not allow yourself contact with C son and if he ever made any apologies or tried to redeem himself with you about having gone along with the psycho crowd?


Ox Drover

Dear LL,

After the P-wife and the TH-P tried to kill him and they went to jail, He hugged me and said “Mom, you’re a prophet, I am so sorry.”

But when we went to (at my instigation) discuss the specific things, he “didn’t want to discuss them” (sort of the old family motto “LET’S JUST PRETEND NONE OF THIS HAPPENED AND START OVER.”

Well, actually that is NOT good enough when you have done the kind of thins that he allowed to go on, that he participated in at least to some extent, at least knew were going on.

When he came back home I made it very clear just exactly what the rules were, and he agreed to them. NO problem. Then after about a yr and a half he started the lying—and it was over breaking a financial agreement we had, which though he paid room and board here, allowed him to live for about 1/3 of what it would have cost him to live on his own, or even with a room mate, so he could save money—and instead, he spent the money on his computer/video game addiction and LIED TO ME TO COVER IT UP. Then lied about lying even when he was caught red handed. Then, I gave him 30 days to move out, and instead he moved out that night and went to work and told his boss and some mutual friends that I had thrown him HOMELESS OUT ON THE STREET! Sheet! What a crock of carp!!!!!

His loyalty and appreciation only last as long as they don’t get in the way of his computer and video game addictions. I used to think his wife was to “blame” for the financial problems they had, but I realize NOW that he was as much to blame about that as she was….if not more so.

I have no problem helping someone, especially my own kid, but you know what, I am not a social services agency and I don’t shoulder the responsibility. When my kids were teenager they had to get a job to help, not because I wanted the money but because they I thought needed to learn responsibility. The rules were that they had to contribute 1/3 of take home pay to the household, 1/3 to savings for big ticket items like college, a vehicle, a house down payment when the time came, etc. and 1/3 they could spend any way they wanted to. When son C moved back home, the rules were the same…but I did let him live here to recover for 6 months without a job or any payments, but during that first 6 months he did have some money of his own he had saved from before he came back here, and he also worked around here on the farm and did his share of the house hold upkeep and housework.

Rules on that is if you eat you wash dishes, if you eat you cook, if you bathe, you clean bathrooms and if you carp, you clean toilets! So we share the housework, yard work, farm work, etc. That’s always been the rule since they were little kids, you help around the house as PART OF YOUR FAMILY RESPONSIBILITIES, not for pay or not for an allowance, just because that is part of living in a family. My male kids know how to do house work as well as any woman ever did.

But when I started looking back, LL, I saw that multiple times in the past C had “betrayed” me or allowed someone else to do so, and I began to believe that there was a PATTERN HERE—and also that his “remorse’ wasn’t really very sincere or behavior changing. It was what I call “from the teeth out” (not from the heart but just from the LIPS only.)

He isn’t’ going to come to my house in the middle of the night to hurt me like P son would, but at the same time, I cannot trust him to be honest with me and I do not WANT ANYONE in my life UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL who is not honest and trustworthy. What kind of relation-shit can you have with someone you can’t trust to be truthful to you?

MY HOUSE, MY RULES—NO lies! Period. He knew the rules, he knew what the agreement was and he broke the agreement, and he lied. So now he lives with a buddy of his and I am sure that he probably doesn’t have enough money in the bank to fix a flat tire, but he DOES have a zillion-dollars worth of high speed internet to get on the net and play video games with his buddies from the time he gets in from work until he goes to bed 7 days a week. It’s his life, but if he blows a tire and can’t afford a new one, “Mom’s savings and loan” is closed because he did not do the best he could to help himself, instead, he made decisions to spend his money on “toys.” HIS DECISION, HIS CONSEQUENCES, HIS PROBLEMS—His life.

Just as The story of Joseph in the Bible illustrates, Joseph had forgiven his brothers who sold him into slavery, but he did not trust them until he had TESTED them well. I tested C and found him not trustworthy. Joseph tested his brothers and found that they had CHANGED their attitudes and behavior. I see that my son C has NOT changed his behavior.


C’s response when you said you wanted to discuss why he went along with the attempts to hurt you was that he didn’t want to discuss it. That is exactly what my brother says when anyone wants to pin down his behavior.
some of his one liners:
“that’s in the past”
“we aren’t going to talk about that right now, we can discuss that at some other time”
“We aren’t discussing that, I’ll let you know when we can discuss that.”
And my favorite from my own spath:

C may not be a spath, but it’s scary how many parallels there are. If I ever had a spath by the balls, I would FORCE him to discuss his past behavior. That would be fun, but I know that in all of history, it has never happened.

lesson learned


Okay, that DOES clarify things a bit lol! Is he a P do you believe? And if not why?

I had a great, but very emotionally draining, complicated therapy session. This one was VERY VERY VERY deep, touching on some very sensitive issues that had me pissed off at my therapist!! lol! He asked me, “Are you pissed at me?” I said “YES I”M PISSED OFF AT YOU!” LOL…He smiled and said, “GOOD, THAT”S WHAT YOU NEED TO BE BECAUSE WE’RE GETTING TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS REAL FAST HERE!” lol!!

What started this was talking about Personality disorders. We went around and around about it. There were things I TOTALLY did not agree with him on. The reason we started this discussion was because I called him during the week and told him I was concerned that I might be Bipolar or have BPD. He NEVER called me back about it. Okay, so I wasn’t going to worry about it and figured he’d test me, per my request when I got there today. So when I sat there, he said to me, “I DID get your message about whether or not you are BPD or Bipolar and I wanted to answer this question to your face and in person so that we could talk about it and so that you are VERY clear: YOU DO NOT, IN MY PROFESSIONAL OPINION, WITH LOTS OF EXPERIENCE WITH PERSONALITY DISORDERS, HAVE BIPOLAR OR BPD!!!” He went on to explain why and said, you DEFINITELY, based upon my professional opinion, have POST TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER AND SITUATIONAL DEPRESSION, BUT NOT A PERSONALITY DISORDER!”

So I argued the point with him lol! Well, guess what Mr. therapist, from all the reading I’ve been doing on BPD, even bi polar can overlap with symptoms of PTSD!!!!

YOU DO NOT HAVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then he went on to explain why. I got it. But then it went deeper, and it was at this point that I was getting very angry. We talked about psychopaths and Narcissists and BPD, I had some great arguments. He went on to explain that there are some out there, who are NOT disordered but are ABUSIVE anyway…..

“You’re trying to assign a label to your experience, LL, why?”

“Because I need to label it to VALIDATE it!”


But…… we went around the block again. This is where I think for NEWBIES or for the GENERAL PUBLIC, there HAS to be an awareness about sociopaths. I told my therapist that I believe there is CLEAR distinctions with regards to your everyday asshole and a sociopath, N, whatever PD they have…

Know what he did then, Ox?

He went to his desk and got a dictionary (I about fell over when he did this, seriously), and he read the definition of evil to me.

After he was done reading it, I was like “YES!!!!” but then he got a serious look on his face….”But it’s very, very scary isn’t it?”

I understood then. Labels, if we are to apply them, to the “personality disordered”, fit this definition and nothing else really needs to be said, but I still disagreed with him in that labels, particularly for those who do NOT understand personality disorders, are helpful, of the psychopath, so that other victims or so that educational materials can be given to help validate or for prevention. He agreed. But from a psychology perspective, psychopathy is a “new frontier” in that there is SO MUCH MORE work to be done in this area of psychology…..

So, Ox……..he also talked about the person being just plain toxic. Unhealthy. I’m still not agreeing fully on that because it runs a spectrum. He agreed….so what I think was decided upon, at least for me, is what is one’s perspective about it.

As far as C son goes………..I think I would have done/reacted the same. I have to do this with N daughter too. It’s hard and at times it DOES hurt, but it hurts A LOT less than enabling her in her behaviors and preventing her from being an adult and making her own decisions, as well as her own destructiveness.

You don’t have grandchildren, but I can honestly tell you, that the heartache is ten times worse when you know there are very young innocents whose lives you KNOW will be profoundly affected by your toxic child. I WILL babysit as often as possible. They need a break from their mother. If I can have even a few hours or an overnight with my grandchildren, it at LEAST gives them an idea as to what is good and what is not.

I just want to love them up as much as I can. So they know the differences. Then when they go home, what she does, is what she does. I have to emotionally detach. And I’m getting better at it in that way.

SO having said all of that, OX, I’m seeing what is CLEAR for me in defining what is toxic and not to an EXTREME, but with all else…it’s a wait and see kinda thing right now.

My other children, when confronted CHANGED their behaviors. Like many here with our spaths, sometimes that can take a long time, but I have a feeling, Ox, as a Mom, you “know” which ones will and which ones will not.

Have I hit a home run in understanding this better?


lesson learned

Okay, so I just got word about my tumor from my doc.

Biopsy results back. NEGATIVE for cancer!! YAY!!! BASTARDS in radiology and with my doc’s office telling me it was “an obvious malignancy” OUGHT TO BE SHOT!!!

Screw it! I’m so happy that everything is okay!! They want to check me again within the next year, but HEY, I’m totally up for that!! WOOT!!!

Thanks for your prayers, those that prayed!!!

Erin, this bitch is gonna be BACK!!!







lesson learned

I DON”T understand all of this yet……..

But CLEARLY, God is NOT done with me YET!!!!



Ox Drover

LL, Congratulations on your negative biopsy. BETTER SAFE THAN SORRY,, at least glad you had it.

As for son C I kept holding out hope that he was/had change/d but you know, when he crossed the “thou shalt not lie to me” line–and actually he planned this lie in advance, it was not a spur of the moment lie…it was a full on cover up, planned. But he is such a POOR LIAR he gives way to much information which is like waving a big flag that says “I am going to tell you a whopper here.” LOL

At the time I was so convinced he had repented, that he had changed his ways and I had come to trust him again—shouldn’t ever have, truth be told. So when he did lie, and I knew it, I was devastated and went into a tail spin. It blind sided me. When you trust someone and they betray that trust it does that, as I think almost everyone here can testify.

So I melted down last January. But I have resolved those feelings and realized what I am dealing with and that is a man who is not going to change, who is disrespectful of my boundaries, and is basically an “addict”—although there are various opinions of if “addiction” to video games etc. is really an addiction or not. I think it is an addiction because they have shown in various studies that the video games give various pleasure centers of the brain various “charges.” Also, he is ADHD and that makes him more prone to that sort of “addiction.” As well, he is depressed some or a great deal of the time and I have no doubt he has PTSD and he refuses to take any kind of medication for this, and I think part of the reason he refuses is because he likes the “high” of the ADHD and the video games and when he takes the medication (which also is given to adult ADHDs) he doesn’t like the “slower pace” he takes. It isn’t bi-polar but sometimes bpeople with bi-polar refuse to take the medication because they like the high of the manias.

But all of that aside, he is an arsehole. He doesn’t have the criteria to meet the qualifications for psychopathy, but he is a horse’s butt. And at his age he is not going to change, he doesn’t want to change, and I just have to accept the fact that my son, as much as I love him, and I do, is an arsehole, but he has a conscience, he just ignores it, and he has compassion and he has empathy, but he is also selfish and self centered and he feeds his “addiction” and like all addicts, he lies.

I don’t want or need either an addict or a liar in my life. NC works for me. I am glad he doesn’t have any children and he says he has no intention of having any. With his dysfunction and his genetics I’m glad he made that decision, neither one would in my opinion make him a prime candidate for fatherhood.

At this point in time though I am disappointed that he didn’t turn out to be the kind of man I wished him to be, he is not all evil. He is public spirited, volunteered in his community for years on the local fire department, was very kind caring and compassionate to his X-wife’s disabled and dying son. He has a moral compass –it’s just that loyalty to his mother is not high on the list of priorities.


LL –




I also spent the past almost 2 years thinking I might have cancer – some idiot clinic told me in 2008 that the lump in my breast was definitely a tumour, but that it “probably was benign and PROBABLY wouldn’t turn malignant”.

Then the idiot doctor at that clinic pooh-poohed my concerns that I should have it removed and settle it once and for all. I allowed myself to be intimidated by her superior status/knowledge (after all, she DOES run a breast health clinic) and spent the next couple of years hoping it would turn out okay. I finally went to another clinic who gave me an ultrasound and it turned out it was just a fluid-filled cyst, the whole time! That clinic’s doctor was SO cross that the first clinic didn’t just ultrasound me and put me out of my misery in 2008.

More stress, at the height of spathdom, that I didn’t have to have…

Anyway, I’m glad that we are BOTH okay. xx


Ox Drover,
You’re a good person and you’ve helped so many people here at LF and in your life as a whole. Thank you for sharing your experiences with all of us. You’re very intelligent, and well read, and I respect you so much.

Ox Drover

Dear forgivemyself,

Why thank you, forgivemyself! Life is a learning experience! LOL I’ve taken the classes at the University of Hard Knocks! (“UHK”) LOL but funked a bunch of the classes, but just kept on paying the tuition though and God was patient with me and let me retake the classes until I got some of the gist of it!

I hope I can help others profit from some of the mistakes I’ve made…..and made again and again!

I also realize I wasted a lot of time upset over things that I had no control over, so I’m working on “not sweating the small stuff and realizing it is mostly all small stuff!” (not easy!)

Keep on learning and reading and processing. It does get some easier, but never too easy. Most things worth anything aren’t all that easy anyway, so just keep on putting one foot in front of another. Donna has given us a great place here with lots of great information to use in our healing and the bloggers here are great support! What better thing could we ask for? Nothing I can think of! (((hugs)))) and God bless.

lesson learned


It’s an “obvious malignant tumor”. REEEEEEEEEEALLY!

I got the BEST radiologist to do my biopsy. he was SO KIND. I know the differences IMMEDIATELY between N docs and true kind hearted docs………OMG prayers WORK. BOTH docs, initially on this, had POOR bedside manner, and BOTH said the tumor was “obviously malignant”.

I went in BELIEVING that! But this doc was so kind to me. I don’t even have any soreness today. He lidocained me until the cows came home. I felt nothing but a bee sting and pressure when taking the biopsy. He didn’t have to call me till tomorrow, but called me this evening and told me instead. now THAT is kindness. I just KNEW he was kind.

I almost cried. Not just because my tumor is benign for cancer, but at the kindness shown to me by this man and his assistant.

My perspective is different. When he walked in, I expected spath, as I’ve seen SO MANY docs are……..but he wasn’t.

All my friends praying, I believe made such a HUGE difference…..

I have to think on this awhile. The outcome………

On the way to therapy today, I saw exPOS………driving out of a local coney island hot dog place…………chica at his side…….it unnerved me. I didn’t tell my therapist when I got there for my appointment, but my mood was much different……..

There is A LOT to process, a lot Id’ like to share here too for feedback.

Ox, your situation is one I don’ tknow that I could endure….I think it’s safe to say that if we’ve not experienced it, we might not have faired as well………but I’m not sure that’s a fair statement either……but more symbolic of the human soul that is hellbent on survival……..I don’t think we know how we are goign to react until it actually HAPPENS to us………

What else are you to do? YOu live. SOme don’t, I understand. A lot may buckle under all of that…….but the human spirit is one I can’t understand fully, why some prevail and others cannot…

But in either/or situation, I can’t blame them. I know many who hear of my atrocities and wonder why I didn’t swallow a bunch of pills or drink myself to death…………do you know what I mean?

I don’t think those that die from heartache are as weak. Sometimes, especially with all I read here, there are those who are so broken in spirit, so fragile, that they simply cannot endure such incredible betrayal and pain. that’s why hope is so incredibly important for newbies who come here….

I’m rambling. Perhaps from a spiritual plane of relief now…that God isn’t done with me yet. So with the time he has given me, that is so very precious, I want to use to figure out what happened and why…..

ONe of my friends on FB wrote to me………….count EVERY blessing LL, EVERY single one.

I think I know what she means 🙂




He is speaking loudly. Telling you to grab hold of your life. It’s a gift He gave you and he wants you to become all that you were meant to be.

That is the message I heard the day I left the spath and sometimes I’ve forgotten it since then, while I wallow in my pity parties. Thanks for the reminder.


My son is married to a sociopath (I think). In the beginning of the relationship, family just thought she was a controlling wife. I have been educating myself lately due to the excelaration of her behaviors and after reading up on the traits of the sociopath and narcissist, she fits most of the profile. I have been witness to her castration of my son for the past 13 years and three children. The relationship started with her pursuing my son and then turning him into her “saviour”. She was always in turmoil. Her father and mother were bad parents and threw her out and she had no where to go. (her story) We fell into that trap as well and took her in. Next thing..she’s pregnant and talks my son into marrying her even though he said he didn’t want to. Plans for a wedding were on…then she says she lost the baby. I was sad for their loss and relieved that they didn’t need to get married now. They could wait. Surprise! Now her mother had cancer and she wanted her mother to see her get married before she died. My son fell for all of it. She has belittled, demeaned, embarrassed my son to the point that he has no friends left. (and no self esteem) She has tried desperately to isolate him from his family, but she needs us as babysitters. When she was pregnant with her second child she called me up at 2:00 in the morning screaming into the phone that my son was beating her. I rushed to their house only to be met by the police arresting her for beating my son. Apparently my son didn’t want to go to bed when she did, and this is what happens when you say no to her. Her brother was witness to this and said she just went crazy for no reason. Another time, after my son just got home from a vasectomy, with doctors orders to ice up and take it easy, she wanted him to babysit the three kids so she could go out. When he refused, she locked him out of the house with no shoes, and he walked all the way to my house holding his testicles…because they had turned black. I can’t tell you everything cause I honestly could write a book on the 100’s of dispicable things she has pulled. My son has left her a couple times only to go back because of the threats with the kids and his own self esteem issues. She is emotionally and physically abusive. Now that she has isolated his friends, she is working on his family. My son is aware of her lies and says he doesn’t know what to do with her. He says she’s crazy and really believes everyone is against her. She never takes ownership for her actions. (She has issues with friendships as well)The saddest part is that she is telling her kids, (ages 10, 8 and 5) that she hates us and is making up stories to them. I know eventually the children will figure this out but in the meantime, it hurts. My son knows she has issues. I just don’t know if he realizes the severity of them. How can I put this in perspective for him. Our relationship is still in tact thus far, but I can’t underestimate the power this women yields over him. When I talk to him, he says, “Ma, I can’t wake up in another house and leave my children with her.” There is so much more, but I am powerless and have to watch as she destroys several lives. Oh..and the most alarming thing to me is….she brags about the time when she was eight years old and hated her father, so she gave her fathers bird a sponge dipped in sugar to eat and then water to drink so the bird would suffocate. Who thinks of this at 8 years old? Help!!!!


What a terrible situation. Based on your description, the woman is clearly a sociopath. The issue the becomes, what to do about it?

There are no easy answers, especially when children are involved. You have posted on the best article in the Lovefraud Blog about what to do. In the end, he is going to have to make the decision to leave. You can’t decide for him. Follow the advice in this story.

If your son decides to make a move, he should document everything that happens. Every time she does something that harms the children or alienates them from him. Keep the documents in a place where she can’t get to them – certainly not in his own house.


Nanny Cams and video surveillance would be helpful as well. Check the laws in your state for what you can use them for. It’s also important to not give her any emotional responses – ever. They feed on emotions, so he needs to starve her of them. The more emotions they get, the more they will demand.


KarenMarie, he is in a physically and mentally abusive relationship, she most definitely is a sociopath, and worst of all the children are in harm’s way. If you still have any influence with him, and he is truly concerned for their welfare, he must put them first and break free of her. I realize this is hard with children but somewhere on this website is information about how to get away, how to save your sanity, and how to deal with the aftermath. There is even information about a website where he could deal with her through an online mediation site (something about wizard but I can’t remember) and not have to deal with her directly when it comes to the care and welfare of the children.

It is hard but the longer they stay under her influence, the worse it will be for them. I feel for you and this burden but I feel for the children the most. They are so young and can’t possibly realize what is happening to them. When one lives with a sociopath, everyone feels like they are crazy to such a degree that normal is lost. Once they were free of the crazymaking, he would be able to work them through this experience and hopefully get family therapy.

I pray you and he find the strength to do what must be done for the sake of the children.



I feel badly for your son. He is in a tough spot, literally experiencing “hell on earth”. Remain a support to him, being patient with him, because he needs you. Read the various articles and figure out concrete ways to help your son turn things around for himself and his children, the goal being to get free of the spath woman.


karen Marie – My son was involved with a spath. He was at the point of suicide when he finally asked for help. Thankfully there were no children involved. One of her stunts had been to say she was pregnant and demanded hundreds of pounds for an abortion. Of course there never was a pregnancy, just mind [email protected]

He was spat at, slashed with a knife, his car wrecked, his flat wrecked… name it SHE did it.

When your son is ready, and one day he WILL be ready, be there for him.

He is trauma bonded to her. She uses the children as a hook to keep him there.

May I suggest that you kit out a room for him at your house. A nice room – if you have space. Boys toys (tv, gameboy etc) and all that stuff. Show him that he has a place that’s ready anytime he’s ready.

We were fortunate in that our son was saved. Years down the line he is still traumatised by what she put him through.

Your son cannot just ‘get over her’ this is NOT a normal woman you are dealing with.

Ask him (when he’s at your house) to write down a list. On one side he should put the good things about her and on the other side all the bad stuff. It may help him to get things into perspective.

No contact is tough where kids are involved but minimal, no drama responses are the best way forward. Be borrrrrrrrring where she is concerned.


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