Recently a man wrote me saying that his best friend has been more hurtful than helpful when it comes to helping him recover from his relationship with a sociopathic woman. He had the following comment and question. I am sure many of you will relate to this one, especially you guys out there.
I have a best friend who I talked to (of course I desperately needed to get my self-identity back). He instantly tried to help me by seeing my own flaws in the relationship and what I could do better, and stated that I overreacted. Of course, his “help” only contributed to her brainwashing and manipulation because it further fueled my questioning about myself, and further made me believe that I was at fault. This reinforced my guilt and shame in which I can now see that I had no reason to experience.
In this regard, my best friend became my worst enemy because he had no clue. I still believe he meant well, though. Of course, my friend has a good impression of her and have never felt the damaging effect of being in a relationship with a sociopath.
So now I question whether he really is my best friend, since he made matters much, much worse (probably without realizing). How can we get a friend to understand what we have been dealing with, and the damaging effect on our emotional life and our self-esteem / self-respect?
Many of the behaviors and manipulations of sociopaths are entirely beyond the comprehension of the average person”¦or mental health professional for that matter. This past week, someone else told me the story of how he came to realize that his significant other was a sociopath. It turns out that the sociopath faked having cancer. This man told a family member and ask the question, “Who fakes having cancer?” Coincidentally a short time later that family member saw an MSNBC special on con artists where faking cancer was discussed. The person called my friend to say, “Hey I think I found out what’s wrong with ______ she’s a sociopath.” Well the man had never heard of “sociopath” before and had to research it. To his shock his lover met every one of the criteria!
Don’t despair if your friend doesn’t get it. Who would ever guess that there are people who appear normal and even affectionate and yet who are only motivated by power, greed and sex? Although we understand some people have problems with conscience and empathy, we believe that at heart all people want and need the same things we do. Very few understand that sociopaths have different needs and drives.
That gets me to my proposal. I think eventually we will want to go beyond this blog and web site and have a conference or start regional support groups. I think we should consider a conference for victims. I have had the very good fortune to correspond and speak on the phone with some other victims. We can finish each other’s sentences because we know what comes next. The sociopath’s methods are all strikingly similar. Perhaps that is the best evidence there is as to the existence of the syndrome.
I recognize there are many people who do not understand what I went through and who may blame me for my own suffering and the suffering of others at the hands of my former husband. It has been very important to my recovery that I have been able to talk with other victims who know firsthand the mind games and distortions of reality sociopaths are capable of.
Hi Oxy and everyone else..
Firstly, (an unrelated report) as some of you know, and wonderfully cheered me on…I started working a month ago. After a month of extensive studying, math calculations, marketing concepts, and sometimes working 60 hours a week, building client leads, and interviewing several people a day. Yesterday, I passed a test that gave me the keys to the office, and established me as a permenent employee. Yippy!!! That’s why I’ve not been posting…too tired.
Back to the topic – “How do we make them (friends, family, the court system, therapists, etc.) believe us?”
The fact that the N/S/P’s can so convincingly assasinate the character of their victims in the eyes of the victims close network of support systems; rendering the victim totally isolated is, in my opinion, is as criminal as murder, and should be viewed as such in the judicial system.
For this reason, I’ve been collaborating with a few pofessionals, researching what will be required to begin the process of educating, informing, getting the attention of the “servants of the courts,” and validation from the medical/mental health professionals. There is a team being formed, and a VERY CONNECTED publisher is 100% supportive.
For years my ex accused me of alienating him from our children. When in fact, he didn’t show up to key events in their lives that he was invited to. He’d humiliate, embarrass, intimidate, threaten, and would completely neglect their basics of life needs. He’d threaten to kill me, in front of the kids.
More to the point of this topic — He managed to cause our friends and close associates from our Church and the kids sporting leagues to believe the absolute worst about me; to the point, I was told by our Chruch, that I was not welcome, and the paster screened his calls, and I wasn’t allowed to talk to him. It’s so hard to believe that his is possible, but….after years of volunteering as a youth counselor, and on a number of other related committees, only one member of the Church came to our house to see if I was ok. (I had suffered a deep depression, and wasn’t attending church, as there was growing awkwardness, a shunning of me, or an oversell of “how wonderful” my ex was. It took nearly 4 years to discover what had actully happened. An elder of the Church is the coach of our daughter’s softball team. Once he actaully saw how I am with the kids, and heard from our daughter’s perspective about her father — the Elder and his wife, both opened up about the gossip, rumor mill that my ex had been saying about me, to cause the whole congregation to “wash their hands of me.”
What is even worse, and I’ve mentioned this before, is the way he’s targeted his own children and has caused their grandparents, and extended family to “cut them out” of their lives.
Sadly, even the reunification therapist that had once been totally supportive of the kids, and backed them up 100%, has been sucked into my ex’s champaign to accuse our 16 year old daughter of “interferring” with his visitations with the younger two. Since I am N/C, and she no longer has legal apeal to him, as she doesn’t have to go with him, if she doesn’t want to, without me being threatened of Parental Alienation. So he’s accusing her of “interferring.” The two younger kids, DO NOT want to go with their father, without her.
Within an hour of passing the test for work, I received an e-mail stating that the court appointed reunification therapist, and the councel for the kids support my ex refusing to let her go with him, and the other two on visitation days.
They don’t address how much effort she’s putting into helping the younger to go with him. They don’t address how he’s rejected her over and over and over again and her recent expression of anger at him in therapy was long overdue, as she has been stoic about all of this for four years. They don’t tell him…”You are the father, if you don’t know how to relate to a teen-ager, and are unable to juggle three kids in different age brackets, then maybe YOU shouldn’t be allowed to take the kids with you, but…none of them are boing to be isolated because YOU can’t handle it.”
In stead, he’s claims are believed, her character is assasinated, and the younger two are even more vulnerable with him, then ever, because it’s become a court sanction that our oldest daughter cannot go with the other two on the visits. CAN YOU BELIEVE IT? Our 16 year old daughter, who is on honor roll, is involved in sports, music, and church activities, who’s by her own goals, never been kissed, (and believe me they line up for the opportunity, but she has higher goals) is labled as “bad, difficult, and poisening the minds of the younger two,”
I am NOT going to tell my 16 year old about the recent decision by the therapist who she truely trusted and believed he understood, has now been seduced against her. I fear that this would be the final straw for her. She’s been showing signs of cracking emotionally, and her self esteem has taken a brutal hit.
I told her, after the last visit, as he stood there, ignoring her, and talking to the other two as if she didn’t exist… then when it was time for them to go, he addressed her with, “You can’t go.” What is so sad is she is the only one of the three that hugs him, and says…”I love you” to him. He had bonded only to her. The other two, he was already over being a parent, and it wasn’t getting him the attention, our first child together provided. When he told her she couldn’t go, the other two told him they don’t want to go without her, and he quickly left.
I fear we are being led into a trap. He wants to take me to court and accuse me of Parental Alienation. He’s already, through the court system, threatened to fight for custody of our youngest, who knows him the least. Half of her life, he has been virtually uninvolved.
I did tell my 13 year old son about the situation. If he refuses to go without his older sister, then his younger sister is put at risk of being forced to go alone; which would terrify her. My son said, “Mom, it’s time for me to man-up. I guess I’m just going to have to protect both my sisters.” And, he also agreed that his older sister doesn’t need to know that her father, like a sniper, has effectively aimed at her character and fired a fatal blow, convincing the powers that be, that she’s of no value, worth, or protection, and essentially, should be eliminated (from her father’s life).
I have been accused of keeping her from him, then when she’s no longer valuable to him, legally. He is able to get the court to alienate her from him… would they call this Court Alienation Syndrom?
I’m getting off on a tangant here, and I do apologize.
It’s time to band together. The one thing I have noticed to be absolutely true is that N/S/Ps all seem to have texted book, cookie cutter, identifyable methods of manipulation, isolation, gaslighting, bullying, threatening, and destroying the reputation and support system of their victims. It is nothing less then social murder! And,they SHOULD absolutely be held accountable for it…legally, as weith any other crime.
Pleae forgive mistakes… I’m so tired, it’s hard to keep my eyes open. I have kept this page open because I wanted to make a comment, but haven’t had time…
Dear Isabel;l,
Dear I know it is hard on you to watch your kids attacked, but you know I think your son has his head on straight and the fact is their father doesn’t love them, he is using them. And I suspect that the time will come when all three of your kids will SEE through him just as you do.
Being the child of a male P I know that it is difficult at any age for a child to realize their parent (sperm donor) doesn’t care about them that they are NOTHING but a possession to cause trouble with, because it is shared with a loving mother.
Just be supportive of your children and assure them that YOU love them and that his treatment of them as a group and as individuals is unconscionable.
Your kids are fortunate to have YOU for a mother and you are in a position to educate your daughter especially about psychopaths. Get her some of the books recommended and reviewed here. She’s well old enough to make the connection and to understand. (((hugs))) and my prayers fo ryou!
You can’t make a friend or even a loved one understand. If they have not been exposed to a sociopath, and were aware of it at the time, they simply can’t understand.
With my x-s/p even most of his ex victims don’t understand, because they were totally unaware of what he was doing to them behind their back. I figure at least half the women he slept with, and finally ended up braking up with him, never knew he had 3-5 women going at the same time as them!
It makes you wonder WHY you were stupid enough to stick around long enough to actually understand the depths he has drug you too? Who knows… He’s used every one he’s ever known, it’s just most of them don’t even know it.
Another good read.
No one close to me gets it either, and my friend did more harm than good as well. When I told her that he had drained my bank account into the negatives by a couple thousand, she asked me why I was stupid enough to give him my ATM card. When I told her that he had strangled me and then taken me to the ER, she told me that she didn’t even feel sorry for me at all if I went back after that. At the time, I thought it was my fault that he had strangled me. He had managed to convince me that because I wasn’t a virgin, I deserved to be tortured. He was just trying to love me, but I was turning him into a monster due to things I did 15 years before meeting him, bla bla bla. If only he had met me when I was 7 everything would be great, he wouldn’t have to suffer like this, bla bla. Even as I was trying to explain this to her, she couldn’t see how profoundly trapped I was in a twisted madness that I had no control over and instead she kept blaming me. It made it worse, yes….
But then I found LF and: “We can finish each other’s sentences because we know what comes next.”
Yes, I think this says something about the syndrome.
panther – when i was young and became aware fo physically battered women, i didn’t understand how they could stay. until i went through it myself. the same way people don’t understand what grips the mid of an alcoholic, so that one could drink until they lost everything –
the things that has changed peoples’ understanding of both of the above are breaking the silence and education – and whole movements of people doing so.
so, this is what will have to happen around psychopathy as well.
personally, i feel too tired to do this. i have to get better myself.
but the other day i heard an interview with the lawyer of another woman who is suing the spath. And hearing her name spoken aloud and her self named’ (although they didn’t call her a spath, the lawyer did call her ’emotionally sadistic’ ) meant the world to me. Even though not one person commenting or calling in to the radio show ‘got it’, it made me stronger.
so specific or general education is the way to go, and that’s what we are doing here – first it goes out to those who want it, and then to those who don’t – yet.
How interesting, the first post on here suggesting a conference ( Thx Aloha Traveler)…I mentioned this idea yesterday on another thread. I am way too infantile in my recovery to be thinking straight ( yep, this really hurt my self-esteem), but something in me says silence gives them power.
Dear Donna, Can the idea of a conference be visited? Perhaps, many of us could not participate due to personal safety issues, but with technology… can that be bridged with tele conferencing? I just wonder if coming forth to make this more well known, would benefit survivors and perhaps help others avoid this personal tragedy?
Thank you Dr. Leedom, for this post. I too have had many well meaning freinds say, just let it go…move on. They have no idea…neither did I , before I met “it”.
Is there an anonymous web site that one can post on about spath? I am afraid of him, and it is not about revenge…I just think it is deplorable that he walks off into sunset to seek and destroy again. Probably telling some other poor woman right now how she is “love of his life”….God help her.
Blue
Bluemosaic, the topic of a convention, seminar, or conference has been raised numerous times. It would require a lot of coordination, etc., and I imagine that Donna has been considering this for a few years, now. Hopefully, it’ll happen. 😀
As for telling other people, outing, explaining, detailing, or simply attempting to warn other people about a spath, it all comes down to a personal choice. Is it REALLY worth the risk? Even “anonymous” sites can be subpoenaed, and IP addresses delivered. I know this because I was stalked and harassed by someone who used “anonymous” means. There is NO such thing as true anonymity on the internet. Seriously.
Survivors in recovery from sociopaths walk a very thin red line. Because of the details about the exspath, I believe that he is a danger to men, women, and children. He’s a sexual deviant and he is a fraud. Having typed that, I don’t believe that his current target would benefit from any disclosure of what he did – none, whatsoever. Even people who have known me for years have chosen to disregard my experiences. I cannot count the number of times that someone has said, “You need to get over it.” They simply cannot comprehend what I experienced, and they don’t WANT to.
Now, the exspath was very young when we began dating. If someone had come to me and said, “Truthspeak, if you remain with this man, you are going to lose your children, your home, your belongings, your friends, your pets, and every dime that you ever had,” I would have laughed in their face.
Brightest blessings
” They simply cannot comprehend what I experienced, And they don’t want to” was Truth’y’s statement. IT IS TRUE!. Ohhh you just need to let it go, they say. It has been my experience as well. I mentioned to the spaths daughter-in-law several times about what a monster he is. Know what she said? Ughhhh, yea, we really DONT WANT TO KNOW. Its called “turning a blind eye”! OK!!! Ya’ll dont mind that perverted predator goes around your kids??? Ok!!! Sucks to be ya’ll!!!
Radar_on, Truthspeak,
I see you are both right, people do not want to know, or don’t care or blame the victim. Ignorance…bliss like state where all is peachy. I think I would get about the same response if I tried to convince anyone that my last relationship ended b/c he turned out to be an ALIEN life form….who had probed me, mutilated my insides…taken me to MARS for more torture(during the times they thought we were on vacation) and then infiltrated me with a Martian virus that I amstruggling with overcoming!!!!
Actually, that would get more sympathy…which begs the ?…why do I need “them” to know or understand or sympathize? Human nature….I am so social, I need to feel heard and validated, quess that is “part” of me that got me into this trouble in the first place…mmmmm.
Blue
Ladies,
I have to agree that the techniques that my spath used are so similar to those I keep reading about here that there can only be 2 explanations.
1) They have support networks that help them learn and use these skills
2) It comes naturally, the ability to manipulate and do psychological harm.
I guess it goes back to the nature/nuture argument. Yes, I do believe my spath was born this way and yes I believe that his mother was a spath which didn’t help. But he did have wonderful family support and a solid Middle class upbringing in his church- he was even an altar boy. (funny, just reminded me about how important it was for him to be married in the church)
Ladies; why not choose a central location and date and see who can meet. We don’t have to have fancy speakers or plush rooms, just a place where we can hug ((())) and have a cup of tea. I don’t know if people would feel as if they would be put in danger- let me know.
Either way I do feel validated (you are not alone BLUE) and understood here- better than I do in my own family. As I had posted on another thread, my family has a hard time believing (as I initially did my self ) that my husband could possibly try and kill me. My counselor identified my husband as a psychopath within the first meeting I had with him. Too bad I can’t make everyone see…but of course he has fooled so many for so long….BUT NOT US :).
I do think the alien story would be more plausible because our reality is a whole lot scarier ( at least the aliens would look different than us).