I recently received this note from a reader in Ireland:
The reason I’m writing today is I have a friend who is in the same position has just recently had contact from her 2.5yr old son’s sociopathic father, looking for access.
She is learning all about what having a sociopathic father actually means, has read the book (Just Like His Father?), but is still unsure whether to allow it or not.
What do you think? Any new research? Anything that shows clearly kids do better without contact?
I do not know of any new research on this topic. We previously discussed two papers parents should be aware of; one concerns antisocial fathers and the other concerns antisocial mothers.
Antisocial Fathers
The common belief is that children are better off having a relationship with a father even if that father is a sociopath. In a landmark study, the only of its kind, researchers proved this is not the case. This study examined the children of 171 fathers high in sociopathic traits and 167 fathers low in sociopathic traits. In the two groups taken together, the presence of the father and his caretaking behavior weakly correlated with less antisocial behavior in children. However, when the two groups were examined separately a startling finding emerged. When fathers who were low in sociopathic traits were present in their children’s lives, children did substantially better. When fathers high in antisocial behavior were present in their children’s lives, children did much worse, especially if the father lived with them. The risk of conduct disorder in the children of antisocial fathers doubled when the fathers resided with the children.
“When highly antisocial fathers reside with the family, children experience a double whammy of risk for antisocial behavior. They are at genetic risk because antisocial behavior is highly heritable. In addition, the same parents who transmit genes also provide the child’s rearing environment. We found that a father’s antisocial behavior accounted for his children’s behavior problems independent of any genetic risk he may have imparted, particularly when he resided with the family and spent time taking care of the children.”
-Sara R. Jaffee, Ph.D. and Colleagues
Antisocial Mothers
There has been one scientific study of mothering and sociopathic traits. In this study, researchers linked scores on the sociopathy scale of a common personality test (MMPI-2) taken during pregnancy to later mothering behavior. This test is often given to people undergoing custody evaluation so it is important to know about this study. High sociopathy scores are linked to problem parenting in six areas:
1. Lack of warmth
2. Passivity/neglect
3. Harsh/abusive discipline
4. Inconsistent/ineffective discipline
5. Poor monitoring and supervision
6. Aggressive values
In this study, mothers completed questionnaires and their parenting behavior was observed during two laboratory tasks. Direct observation is very important, because it is difficult to understand sociopathic parenting without first hand observations. During the observation periods, mothers high in trait sociopathy were observed to show a lack of warmth and to use harsh and ineffective discipline. The ineffective discipline of at risk children is just as important in the development of sociopathy as is lack of warmth. Ineffective discipline does not enable a child to learn impulse control. Lack of warmth impairs Ability to Love. The aggressive values cherished by sociopathic mothers also impair a child’s moral development. It follows that sociopathic mothers pass on the disorder to their children by poisoning The Inner Triangle.
Other considerations
Remember all the research can only give you guidelines. Sociopathy is a spectrum and it can be difficult to tell just how affect a mother or father is. Below is a list of questions you can ask yourself when considering a child’s involvement with an antisocial parent. It is my hope that those outside the family making decisions on behalf of children will consider this list as well.
1. How likely is sociopathic parent (SP) to encourage the child to form a bond only to disappear, abandoning the child?
2. How sadistic or potentially sexually abusive is SP? Is there a risk of parental kidnapping?
3. How likely is it that SP will use child to harm others- get new relationship by playing parent of the year?
4. How likely is it SP will use child to harm other parent?
5. Will SP teach antisocial attitudes to child? eg. suspicion of others and pleasure in aggression or getting over on the system?
6. Will SP expose child to other antisocial adults?
7. Will SP be overly permissive and not set limits or neglect the child- Put child in front of TV and not feed him or help him toilet etc.?
8. Will SP induce fear and guilt if the child does not do what SP wants?
9. Will SP be intoxicated infront of child? Will SP drive while intoxicated with child in the car?
10. Is SP doing illegal things and at risk for arrest?
11. Is SP so disordered that to give the child the idea SP is normal will harm the child’s view of humanity?
12. Is SP preoccupied with weapons or own them?
13. Is SP partaking of sexually explicit or violent media and at risk to expose child to these?
14. Will SP attempt to alienate healthy parent?
15. Is SP in treatment or has SP taken parenting classes?
16. Will SP dump child off on other relatives or baby sitter during supposed parenting time?
17. Will SP spend “support money” buying the child’s loyalty by purchasing toys? or taking child places SP cannot in reality afford if SP was supporting child as SP should?
If you can add to the list please do so. I am also looking for your examples of the above.
Reference List
Jaffee S, Moffitt T, Caspi A, Taylor A. Life with (or without) father: The benefits of living with two biological parents depend on the father’s antisocial behavior. Child Development [serial online]. January 2003;74(1):109-126.
Bosquet M, Egeland B. Predicting parenting behaviors from Antisocial Practices content scale scores of the MMPI-2 administered during pregnancy. Journal of Personality Assessment [serial online]. February 2000;74(1):146-162.
Dear Breckgirl,
As for the genetic component, my P-sperm donor’s personality and visciousness which is not my nature, is definitely my P-son’s and he has never met my P-sperm donor. so I think the genetic component CAN skip generations, however, I think that training your children to listen to themselves—and BTW, the gun can be wrong too—but to look for BEHAVIOR that is dishonoest. PERIOD.
A person who is dishonest is not a good “friend” or “partner” or anything else. “Evil companions corrupt good morals” is definitely true. Picking good friends will be the best thing that they can do for themselves, and when they see a “friend” who lies, and does illegal or stupid things they do not emulate that behavior but instead, put that “friend” on notice that they don’t.
This is difficult for a teenager to do as they are trying to distance from parents and to establish themselves with their peers and be accepted by peers. One of the first “signs” I had my P son was in trouble was when he completely cut off his GOOD friends, and started to hang with the neighborhood “bad boys”
God bless you in your effort to raise good kids! It is a big job!
I want to thank you all for the responses and encourage any more thoughts to be added.
My girls are 9 and 7. The thing that gives me hope is their ability to recognize bad behaviour even better than mine – my youngest has commented on how difficult my Mom is – making me laugh when she said it.
My children are not at great risk from their Dad by the way. It is the boyfriend after the divorce who really destroyed me and has awakened me – he is in recovery language “my bottom” – not that Dad is super healthy – he is not purposefully evil – not an N/P/S – just insecure and afraid and passive aggressive as a result which in itself is a form of dishonesty – and the girls and I talk about that as well – but lovingly for the most part about their Dad.
I have also always told them they can say whatever they need to say to whomever they need to say it as long as they do it politely. So they know they can express their feelings – and that it is okay to say what they see – or feel with their gut.
Kim the listening to your gut is good advice – and to note that when there is confusion to move away and review as that confusion is often a signal someone is messing with us and we just can’t put our finger on what it is – something isn’t right but what that something is sometimes takes time to uncover.
Thank you ladies!
Isabelle,
Do you have access to find out what the therapist “findings” are from this session? His final report? Or is this all held confidential until the hearing? Can you discuss this at all with him w/o compounding the situation?
The reason I ask this is just in case he (therapist) WAS letting the situation “play out” so that he might see how far your X was willing to go and risk your childrens feelings/wellfare in the process.
It is unfortunate that he isn’t well aware already of the N/S/P behavior/traits, but it is possible he was letting this unfold before him for better understanding of his disorder?
I of all people have not been lucky in the “pool” of therapist out there that have “get it”. So I am certainly NOT trying to say that this therapist is doing what he is supposed to be doing. This has not been my personal experience either.
However if it is his job to be there in the childrens best interest (AND IF he WAS actually trying to do HIS job) it seems impossible to understand where he WAS GOING with this, other than for his own “education” in this matter to see what your x was really about. And how far your X would go.
In the process your kids were feeling no validation or protection from him whatsoever. But it is possible he didn’t “sell out” on them but handled the situation poorly because he is a bit out of his league? Do you think this is possible?
If it is feasable I would try to get him to discuss his “evaluation” or assesment with you. In this discussion I would also point out to him how it made your children feel after it was over. HE NEEDS to know this, because after all your children should be his most important concern. Was he not involved to begin with for this purpose?
With any luck the therapist DID see beyond what your X was trying to accomplish. If he is any good at what he does maybe he saw inconsistancies (in his story) that your children were unable to see because of their emotional turmoil of what they were going through during the session.
It is worth exploring if it is something that you are able to talk to the therapist about before your case.
I am so sorry that you have to go through this.
Good feedback Witsend –
I also wonder if the therapist is even aware of his own inconsistency?
Maybe your attorney if you have one should make the approach – to shield you from any baloney – although it sounds like you are very able to see it and handle it –
I think if the therapist was reminded of the advice he gave to your teens previously he might wake up a bit to how he is being snowed by your ex and his Jezebel…
And especially as Witsend says – is he not there to be advocating for the best interests of your daughter (he 9 year old…)?
My prayers will be with you.
Hello, Im new, just wrote on another blog.
My ex was a sociopath – so I say – and he had two kids, a daughter coming up 13, and to another woman a son of now 6 who he hasnt seen since he was 3 months old after he walked out on them.
He didnt tell me about the son, I found out by seeing a request for maintenance from the Family Department. Then I got the story behind it, which included that the mother wouldnt give him any access as she thought he (my ex) was too psychiatrically disordered. At the same time, he had never tried for contact and just didnt seem to have any feelings about the kid.
His poor daughter he had let down since she was born. The mother left him when the girl was only 2 years old. He went long periods without seeing her, and has regularly let her down, I saw it myself. He is of course also a hash addict, which influences things. Ive read those questions, and the only one thats of no relevance is that about weapons. But all the other questions have unfortunately negative answers. I tried a lot to get him to sort himself out for his daughters sake, and stop hurting her with his letdowns, which could be pretty big like not turning up to take her on holiday, or simply not turning up for arranged contact. I sometimes thought the mother was not hard enough on him, it seemed that his family and her just tolerated his behaviour, everytime he let them down and hurt them, they would just pat him on the head and say oh it will be okay.
When I thought I was pregnant, it dawned on me I would either have to cut off from him and refuse contact with the child, or consider an abortion :o( thankfully I wasnt pregnant. But there was no way I would have him treat my child as I had seen him treat me and his daughter.
In my other blog I wrote about how I contacted his employer, a school, to tell them who they had employed. Where I am, in Denmark, there is no information sharing on the scale there is in America or England where I come from.
He had no idea how to treat kids, and no idea about parenting. Whenever his daughter stayed, he would sleep in her bed, she is nearly 13!! It was nothing sexual, I think he just thought he was Michael Jackson needing to make the girl feel safe. He did expose that girl to a lot of things she shouldnt have seen, he would shower with the door open, pee with the door open, she saw him drink too much from early in the afternoon and get drunk, he had drugs and porn in the house and no thought for the fact she could find them, he abused me in front of her, and she saw him living like a druggy pig. Yet she adored her dad, and spent all her time worrying about him, instead of being out there with her friends.
It will be interesting to see how she turns out.
shanmoo –
I predict she will become a repeat victim because so one was able to intervene and set an example for her – no one opened the eyes of her as a child to the fact that he should be taking care of her – NOT her taking care of him. She will be an ACA – never knowing what normal is and constantly searching for the fault in herself when others are displeased.
She will be overly responsible for the well being of others and therefore the perfect victim for a sociopath or narcissist who will get her to carry their load in life and kick her in the teeth constantly for not being able to give them something no one can – she may be abused physically as well as emotionally and mentally –
and hopefully if she is anything like me she will meet someone who is bad enough for her – (my life was at and is still at risk – my ex was released from jail last night – I got the notification via phone at ten minutes after midnite that he was now a free man…)
….that she will finally educate herself and begin to live life with her own well being and happiness in mind and come to see that trying to please those that cannot be pleased and those that have no ability to reciprocate is an exhausting, painful journey and can in fact make one insane.
Sally’s letter in the thread about acceptance and focusing on the now attests to that. It is the very result for that poor girl if no one ever can get through to her.
Thanks Breckgirl, I had thought many times that this will probably be her path in life, a co-dependent where she can only live by wanting to take care of those who cant be taken care of. Low self worth and so … hmmm attraction to someone just like her dad.
I have that background myself from lack of love from a parent, and I tried to explain this to my ex, what he was doing to her.
She has already had to see a psychologist at the school, for OCD type issues, and I noticed she had eating issues, bathroom scales out each time she was on the way to bed, etc etc. It was really sad. I was very fond of the girl and she of me, but apparently since I reported her father she hates me. Fair enough.
I dont know if anything will happen since I reported my ex for being a sociopathic drug addict, it was only to the school where he works, but I did mention his disgusting treatment of his daughter. Problem is here in Denmark they just dont act when they should, they live so much with their heads in the sand. I know that in the UK, my letter would have been sent to Social Services, compulsory, and they would have considered intervention. There is no such information sharing here, and in fact, they dont even deal with things confidentially.
Well, at least she can live in the security that when she is an older teenager she will probably get a stepmother the same age as her, if not younger :o/
So your ex is out? Have the Police got any security measures in place for you? Can someone stay with you, or can you go somewhere? You need to find out where he is …. my thoughts are with you.
I don’t know where he is – the police do not provide security services – you call them AFTER someone has done something awful – and I hope to not know where he is or hear about him as it just stirs up my sense of loss frankly.
I have an alarm system, a dog (but she is probably too friendly) and other means of self protection and I have installed other security measures that will at least help delay any attempted entry into my home – it is out there in the world that feels less safe – but not because of him – because of what I now know.
The loss of innocence is what is so overwhelming at times – that is why early education is so important IMO.
Thank you for your good wishes.
Im glad to hear that you have some good security measures at home. I hope he finds other things to focus on than being an idiot. And yea, its fair to say that witnesses and victims and others at risk are just not protected enough. I felt that myself after I reported my ex, and it was so not fun :o/
Loss of innocence — I saw that with my exes daughter. Totally, it was just all wrong. All so wrong. I can only think the mother was blinded by still having feelings for him, feeling sorry for him, still loving him etc etc even though she married another. Yea he had good parts, but the bad bits far outweighed.
Dear Witsend,
The the therapist has been involved since the later part of 2006. He has indicated to me, several times, that I’m the best therapist my ex could have had. He’s also indicated that he feels that he feels at a loss as to what to do. He’s always asked me to send him a fax after each session with the kids, to give him insight as to what they are feeling. And, what effort and behavior the ex has had with the kids between visits.
At one point he encouraged me to agree to the minimal visitation schedule the court allows withou supervision. He told me privately that he believed my ex would fade into the background. For me to fight for supervised visits, would drag the case on, and could paint me in a bad light. So, I agreed. And, for the most part, for the next year, my ex did fade into the background. He was getting married and preoccupied with this personal life.
The therapist and my attorney have indicated, based on what my ex’s attorney has said, that my ex has suddenly become so dedicated to being involved because somebody else is pushing him to get involved, i.e. grandparents. Basically, when he’s asked how the kids are, he can’t say, “I don’t know.” because this would expose his neglect. So, he has to blame me for keeping the kids from him, which inflames the whole clan; to which they insist that he “fight” for his kids.
In my ex’s entire argument for his kids, he doesn’t express the loss of bond with them, or concerns for their well being, or interest in them as individuals. He expresses, “HIS RIGHTS!” as a parent. And, this is the foundation of his argument.
He also makes broad sweeping accusations not based on fact, or specifics accusing me of poisening the kids minds. When our daughter asked him specifically what I’ve said to poisen their minds, he addmitted to not know, but he’s heard things from others (we don’t associate with anyone, mutually, so this is not true). When my daughter asked him who he’s heard such comments from, he couldn’t say. Eventually she cornered him into admitting that he didn’t know if this was true or not. (Recorded conversation).
If this was just about the two teens, it would be a done deal. The problem exists with my youngest who will be 10 in a couple weeks. She is my ex’s last hope to manipulate me legally. To my advantage, in all his arguments with the teens, he doesn’t demonstrate any interest or concern for our youngest. He doesn’t call her. He did go to a parent teacher conference for the first time in her life. It’s all for show. There was no contact with her, but a big show with the school so he has witnesses that he’s involved. I hope the court will see through this.
I don’t dare bring up the fact that he’s not making any effort with her, even to the therapist, because the therapist will address this issue, and my ex will morph, once again, and for the sake of appearences, he will suddenly make it a priority.
Early on, I did hope for the kids to have a relationship with their dad. I used to give advice, clues and suggestions for the therapist to address with him, to help him know what he needs to do to make the kids feel safe with him. He’s a shape shifter, and once an issue is brought up with him, he will quickly change his spots for the sake of appearence, with no improvement or change in his behavior or attitude with the kids.
The kids are writing letters to the therapist and to their court appointed attorney. I am adding a couple articles from this website, and a summary letter expressing my concerns that the the therapist allowed my ex to control the session making his wife the victim vs allowing the kids to address the issues of their father’s behavior that have made them feel alienated. As well as the horrific things he would accuse his 15 year old daughter of for the sake of devaluing and discrediting her character, so what she had to say, would have less crediablity. This, in itself, is psychological abuse.
The slandar he says about me to the kids is enough to warrant concern about his desire to alienate me from the kids. And, his pitting the kids against each other is another example that screams of his intent to alienate the kids from one another. This has always been his strength; he pits people against each other, so that nobody compares notes on his behavior because they are all busy fighting amongst themselves.
One of my big concerns is my ex’s wife has become involved in our case. She is truely a Jezeebel; seductive, charming, intoxicating, beautiful and fashionable. Her behind the scenes involvement clearly indicates her intent to alienate the kids from their father, as well as their family system for the soul purpose of gaining control of my ex’s inheritance. But, these issues cannot be cross referenced with the child visitation issues. Which is like shooting in the dark. The therapist has been charmed by this woman, as has the kids court appointed attorney. My only hope is that her ability to manipulate, and have more face time with representatives that are supposed to be representing the best interest of the kids, then the kids have had with these people is UNETHICAL. And, my attorny has advised me that as things progress, if these representatives for the kids do not respond to the kids reaching out to them, the kids will have grounds to report them to the bar association. In the mean time… they are only 15, 13, and 9. They have already been shut down by their attorney on two occations, and having to write to anyone about any of this feels like a huge homework assignement, that they would like to ignore. And, it is the 9 year old that is at the greatest risk. The 15 and 13 year old do not have to go with their father, if they don’t want to. But, if they don’t go, the nine year old will not go. And, we’ve been told, if she will not go with him, the kid’s attorney will request that their father get’s custody of her. Hence the reason I say nothing to anyone about him not contacting her, directly. He’s caught up in the drama with the teens. As time goes by, and when we go to court, I can show that he’s gone months without ever calling our youngest to connect, or bond with her. The teens will tesify that he’s more preoccupied to force them (the teens) to accept his new wife and her family, then he is interested in interacting with our youngest. During their visitations, he interacts very little with her.
So… I am hoping, as you stated, that the therapist had to let things play out to get an education on how far the ex will go to dismiss the kid’s feelings.
When my son said to the therapist, “He has ruined our family.” The therapist responded, “I know your family, and you it is certainly NOT ruined.” I explained to my son that what he meant was, he has met us – me and the kids as a unit – and perceives that we are a very healthy and strong unit, in spite of what we’ve been through.
I have just come to mistrust everyone, and everything. When I think things are obvious and will be easily concluded, things seem to become more befuddled.