By | November 16, 2009 110 Comments

Recovering from a sociopath: acceptance and focusing on now

Lovefraud has heard from a woman who we’ll call “Sally.” Sally is dealing with a sociopathic man who threatened to kill her, sabotage her daughter’s career and injure other family members. She says law enforcement either doesn’t believe her or doesn’t care.

Sally has been in touch with another of the sociopath’s victims, and they’ve helped each other through the nightmare. Still, people in regular support groups don’t believe them, and friends and family members have backed away. A lawyer and a therapist have backed away.

Sally recently sent Lovefraud the following e-mail:

You just can’t imagine this, because I can’t either. The person that was me is gone ”¦ and no one has taken her place.

I know who I was with all my faults and history ”¦ I was comfortable there. I guess this is a journey ”¦ but to where I don’t know. There is no light.

For 62 years I was me and now I am gone. What will I be? Will I be able to live with who I end up being?

I’m sitting in my living room and I am crying and I don’t know why. For the loss of hope? For fear? Fear of the future … for breast cancer ”¦ for the loss of my two best friends? For being stupid? For losing my children? And I am responsible for these losses.

I am dull, I am inert. I fill my head with senseless TV – I don’t know what I’m watching.

I want to dance and sing and laugh. I want to ride bareback thru the fields and listen to the silence.

But I will do none of those things. They’re only dreams. I am too tired. They are too far away from my new reality. Reality is my home, my prison, the awake hours. My routine – sleep as long as I can – take pills to help me not to have panic attacks – sometimes I eat. Day is night, and night is day ”¦ there’s no difference anymore.

I am smothered in sadness – and I am so angry, at myself.

I used to accomplish so much in a day and now it can all wait for another day.

I remember the hopelessness. I remember feeling that I had nothing to hold on to, that everything I knew was gone. I had no plans for the future, no idea of what was to become of me.

And I remember coming to terms with it.

How can you possibly come to terms with the devastation wrought by a sociopath? My healing involved two related and intertwined adjustments in my thinking.


The first adjustment was that I had to accept what happened.

Everything I was told by my sociopathic ex-husband was a lie. I had been deceived, swindled and betrayed. He had convinced me to spend all of my money, and go into debt, to support his grandiose plans. I’d neglected my own business to participate in his schemes. I’d won a judgment against my ex in court, but it was useless. I’d spent money I didn’t have on collection agencies and lawyers, and came up empty. I would not get any satisfaction from my ex.

I was broke and had no prospects for stable income. I did not know how I would survive, and I couldn’t argue with my circumstances any longer. The day finally came when I had to accept that, for the time being, this was my life.

Present moment

The second adjustment in my thinking was to focus on the present moment.

We all spend a lot of time reliving the past and projecting into the future. We ruminate over everything that happened with the sociopath. We worry about what will happen to our jobs, our kids, our homes.

Although this is legitimate, the only place where we truly live is right now, in the present moment. We can only take action now. So much like recovering from an addiction, we have to take our lives one day at a time.

It’s not easy. We want to know that we’ll be okay. We want to know how everything will work out. But I learned that if we give up our expectations of what ought to be, life can bring us wonderful solutions that we didn’t even think of.

This is one of the big themes in my book, Love Fraud—How My Marriage to a Sociopath Fulfilled My Spiritual Plan, which will be published in the spring.

Suggestions for Sally

So what should Sally do? From her letter, it sounds like she is suffering from depression. This is no surprise. We all know that the devastation wrought by sociopaths, and the callous response of the legal and financial systems, can leave us depressed.

Maybe Sally is strong enough to cope with the depression on her own. But if she feels like she needs assistance, that’s one step that she can take right now, today—seeking treatment for depression.

It would be a step towards her healing. For Sally to continue to move forward, I lovingly suggest the approach that I outline here—accepting what has happened, and focusing on one day at a time.

It’s not easy. Accepting what has happened leads us to grief over what we have lost. The grief needs to be processed, and it’s not fun. Actually, that may be where Sally is right now. There’s no way to avoid the pain; we have no choice but to move through it. But it does come to an end.

The process is much more manageable if we only deal with this day, or perhaps this hour. For Sally to try to sort out the rest of her life right now would be impossible, and probably counterproductive.

Sally has dreams. She wants to sing and dance and ride bareback through the fields, listening to the silence. Sally should hold on to her dreams, even though, at this point, she does not know how they will be realized.

Right now she’s moving through the rough patch. But each day moves her one day closer to the possible fulfillment of her dreams. All she has to do is hold on, and gradually, her ability to accomplish will return.

Who will she be? An even better version of who she was.

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Ox Drover

Thanks, Donna for this article.

Sally, I think many of the bloggers here at loveFraud have been where you are. WORLD UPSIDE DOWN, and depressed. Grieving. Seeing little or no hope opr light at the end of a long black tunnel.

The details of how you wound up there, how I wound up there, and others wound up in that darky abyss actually don’t matter except to us individually, the general process was the same—we were victims of a psychopath’s maneuvers to destroy everything we were and everything we had for no other reason that greed and the enjoyment of doing so.

They take everything not because they want it, but because they don’t want us to have ti. If we care about it, they want to take that joy away from us.

We grieve for the loses we have endured, suffered. The pain is almost unbearable, and like a sick and injured dog we want to find a place to crawl linto and lick our wounds.

This place we crawl into is the grief process, which is filled with undulating emotions that seem to roll over us like surf onto a beach in unstoppable waves out of our control.

We can’t avoid those waves of emotions, each one different, then the same, but in order to oget back on our ship of life we must wade and crawl and swim through those waves after waves to get back to life, the only other option is to continue to lie helpless of the beach of despair, still dashed by those waves continually.

Sally, they can buffet us, they can knock us down, but they can’t truly destroy us if we won’t allow it. I too am 62, lwill be 63 in a couple of weeks, but after months of lying on the beach of despair, I started crawling back toward the life boat, and I am glad I did, There are many people here at LF who will chear you on as you struggle through those waves to get off the beach of despair and back into your own life boat.

Life is not over until you give up. Reach out to take our hands and work throuigh this with us cheering you on! God bless you Sally. (((hugs))))


Dear Sally,

It saddens me to hear the pain that has wrapped itself around you tightly. Only time will get you through to the other side. You must process this as it comes. Be patient with yourself. You have the right to feel the way you do but it won’t last forever. Even broke, don’t you feel as though a weight has been lifted off your heart and soul? Don’t you sleep better and breathe better now? If you are alone it might take longer to step through it all. This is not a good time to be alone. Try to fill your days with good people and fun projects. Bake, clean, walk someone’s dog. Enjoy the smallest of things you may have overlooked. Pour your heart into that book you’re writing. Write it for all of us. The sadness will lift, promise.


Like the willow, I learned that while I may bend, I wouldn’t break. It is a FALSE belief that these P.’s like to put in our head. They WANT us to believe we will crack. I believe, Sally, that you will come through this and be that much stronger for it.
I suscribe to the “just for today” theory. It helped me get out of the cycle of wanting to sleep and then having to get up just to face another day. Each day gets better and better and I know that those feelings will come, yet again, and wash over me. I try to remember that each time they do, it’s part of the cleansing process and each time it happens, I’m that much farther ahead. I am able to put my head down at night and know, that at least for today, I’ve done the best I can.
You are a special person. There is only one you. You were put here for a reason and while you may not see that now, you will.
I’ve been on here for only a short while and have learned so much.
Sending hugs and God’s Blessings,


There is a blog by a woman named Susan J. Elliott – it is called Getting Past Your Past – How To Turn a Devastating Loss Into The Best Thing That Ever Happened To You – and I highly recommend it. I found it before I found Love Fraud and the two blogs have helped me so tremendously. Here is the link:

She has also written a book that has much helpful information and exercises to help one grieve and integrate the losses suffered so you/I/we can move on and forward with our lives.

God bless you – and yes depression and despair are a normal reaction to the pain and suffering and deception you have experienced Sally. Please seek help for yourself – I don’t know how I would have made it without my therapist.


Sally, I know exactly how you feel because I feel the same way too. It is as if you are telling my story as far as feeling hopeless, depressed, and crying because you want to be the woman you were before and all the pain and hurt and anger and betrayal – all of it. I HATE IT! I’m new here. I’ve only written once before and I received support from some caring people. I printed out what they told me to do and I read them often. I know everything they told me is true and if I follow what they say, I will have a future and make it. I know you will if you continue to come to lovefraud, get help and have the support of family and friends, etc. It is not easy, believe me, but you will make it! The nutcase I was with for 5 years intermittently lives 7 doors away from me with latest victim who he was cheating on me with. Once he had her hooked, he dropped me, just like that, no explanation, no goodbye, no chance for me to speak, vent, anything! Although their relationship is a rocky one and very dysfunctional because they are alike in a lot of ways, she is so different from me except that she believed his lies too, was lonely, he was so sweet and loving in the beginning and she must have low self esteem. Plus she is 50 and I am 54 so you know how that goes. I tried to warn her, but she could care less. People say she is using him for his money. I say: what money? He didn’t have any money when he was with me. At the end, he was stealing money from me to use for her. I didn’t realize it at the time, but I see so many things clearly now such as “the receipt fell out of the bag” and so much more. I am still having a very difficult time because they both live here. She is not very nice to me at all so I am dealing with two sociopaths. She tells people she does not like him, is not in love with him, disgusted with him, etc., etc., etc., BUT she is still living with him. I don’t get it, but I’m not supposed to because it is their business not mine. It’s difficult to stay out of his business though because he STILL tries to get me to feel sorry for him and listen to his lies and messages to get back to me about “how much he misses me” and “he wishes he was still with me because I was nicer to him.” He still knocks on my door occasionally, but I don’t answer. He even called me once and I called and told her, which he denied. He told her that he never went out with me and I am some lunatic crazy person who has trying to get him for years. RIGHT! She made sure she told me that. She also calls me “that woman.” I do have a name. I don’t know if she is playing head games with me like he did and still does or if she is just mean. All I know is that I feel stuck in a rut and as many times as I have felt like my old self before him, I quickly go back to the depressed person. Having bipolar depression doesn’t help and a history of attempted suicides doesn’t help either. I am so lonely. I have no family here and I’ve lost all my friends except for one, but she is still hanging on a string with a sociopath she has been with for 8 years. I hate life and if I belived I would go to heaven if I committted suicide, I would. i don’t see a future for me. I call the police on him now for every single thing he does to me. They don’t do anything.!!!


Dearest Sally, When I left my P ex husband ,who was an alcoholic,and a gambler,after hed beaten me nearly unconscious, I had only the clothes I stood up in. Both my daughters are ps{narcissopaths} too, and they sided with their dad. So I was truly on my own. I found a tiny furnished flat,{condo}moved in, in Dec.,1982, My landlady reduced my weekly rent if I gave her a facial once a week.{I went on unemployment benefits for th first time in my life.} I turned the tiny spare bedroom into my healing clinic,-i have certs in massage, shiatsu, andaromatherapy.I prayd to god every night, and He helped me wonderfully. I remember I prayed one night for food,as I had one egg and 2 slices of bread in my fridge,and next day my P daughter rang to say a sportsperson had rung re a massage from me. he came round, he was Ok, not a sexual predator, he had a “corked” thigh muscle which I fixed for him. He gave me A$25,- I went out and bought food, and from that day, I was OK. My ex used to say to my girls,”Mum will come home when shes hungry.” I made up my mind NEVER to go back to that awful house, where not only my ex but one of my daughters had beaten me up.{Probably while on drugs, or drunk.} Six months after my break for freedom, I met my darling husband, thru my landladies sister, Trisha, who had a match making dinner party for me and David, her next door neighbor, a divorced man of 50 from new Zealand. he was GORGEOUS!!and we fell in love.This July, we celebrated our 25th Wedding anniversary in Cape Town,South Africa, where we had a 3 week holiday. YOu will get there! keep praying, keep trusting God, He hears you and he WILL help you but you have to ASK for help, or His hands are tied!Take one day at a time, believe god hasa BETTER plan for your life. I left, bruised, battered, with nothing but the clothes I stood up in. It was very HARD to leave my P teenagers. {Not that they missed me in the slightest,they are both hard little b—-ches.}} and I have gone on giving and giving and giving to them for nearly 30 years, thru a false sense of guilt.FOG, its called,–fear, obligation, and guilt. I have learned SO much from Love fraud since finding the site in June this year. Iv e learned HEAPS! and to stand up for myself, and not take any more crap from my P . adult kids.Some of us are newbies, some are “Den Mothers” like Oxy, but were all in this together, we are FAMILY!!Good Luck, you will make it, take one day at a time. depression meds may help you, I resisted taking them as they made me feel so zonked out, but they may help temporarily . Do you have a job?How are you financially? can you get by? Anyway, heaps of Love,and {{HUGS}} ,if I can do it, YOU CAN TOO!! GeminigirlXX


Oh, sweetheart, your post tore at my heart. Your pain and suffering is palpable in your words.

When you wrote that you are so lonely, I instinctively wanted to reach out through my computer monitor and quickly pull you into my arms for a much needed loving hug. I would do it to, but I can’t as I am limited with the internet.

Sweetie, I care about you. I don’t need to know you personally to have genuine compassion for you. Speaking from the heart, being candid and honest on LF creates that most loving of feelings for each other. Plus, all of us on this website have experienced the devastation caused by evil predators, once or many times.

Please don’t leave us. Stay here, sharing and purging and venting for however long you wish. This is one of the best places in the world for healing, recovery and renewal. Just keep on coming back, because you are a valuable, priceless, lovely human woman.

I care. I do. I care deeply.


I do understand that you are overwhelmed by a myriad of intense emotions. That’s ok. It’s natural to feel this way due to the despicable, utterly cruel, callous, inhuman treatment by a predator. You are not alone. Not here you’re not.

You have been violated. You have been used, abused, devalued and discarded. But you never, not in a million years, deserved to be treated thus. Never.

You are worth a thousand times more than the evil predator. More than that as predators are worth zilch. In time, you will begin to realize this as you begin to accept that he is a personality disordered individual, which in effect means, he is incorrigible, irredeemable, a life long epic failure.

I would kindly suggest that you not internalize his abuse and blame yourself. You are not stupid, or crazy, or hysterical, or foolish, or ugly. You are none of these words! The polar opposite of the words to be exact!

Please, I do implore you as I want you to continue to visit and post on LF, to read and absorb as much of the articles, essays that are written.

You might wish to click on the links for Kathleen Hawk on the left side of the page under categories. She offers illuminating, insightful, and wise healing knowledge that I think you should consider reading. Her tone is soothing and compassionate also which I sincerely appreciate.

I’m going to sign off but I’ll be checking in to read what you have written.

Ox Drover

Dear Alicia,

I hear your pain, and I have felt that life wasn’t worth living myself, but I have found that it IS worth living, and it IS worth struggling through all the pain to get to the light! To get to the future, one moment at a time.

The pain, devestation and loss I felt put me squarely on my back, and sometimes we hav eto be flat of our backs to LOOK UP. My faith in God is stronger now than ever before! I don’t think I could have made it out of the abyss without that faith which grew in my heart as I prayed.

I sometimes felt like Job, but also like Job, I have more now than what I lost and most of all, I have ME. A me that is unemcumbered by attachments of toxic hope to relationships what were toxic, that were bad, that were evil with people whose hearts were black. I am free of the psychopaths, free of all they did to me, and I have a better life now than I have ever had. don’t give up hope, Alicia!

Stay here, there are many people here who will support you through the trials and tribulations that we all go through as we work toward healing. You still have the most important thing in life, yourself! My prayers for you my dear, and a big cyber ((((Hug)))) along with Gem and Janie.

Twice Betrayed

Donna, I really appreciate your suggestions. They are so kind, to the point and not overwhelming to process. You understand that when we are in this deep loss stage of grief we cannot process a long drawn out plan and advice. You keep it simple, but true and to the point. Very, very helpful and hopeful.


Dear Sally & Alicia

I am also new to Lovefraud and understand 100% how you both are feeling, i am still trying to get my sociopath out of my life (he just wont’t leave me alone-he is like a yoyo) and am just taking one day at a time, Donna has helped me so much to understand the behaviour of sociopaths and my own feelings as i felt so alone when he left without any warning and then came back then left came back. It has been a very hard and lonely path as noboby seem to understand what i was feeling and going through. It felt to me that everyone around me thought i was the obsessive one as i would predict what would happen and he did things in such a way that he could never be linked to things or when i was alone so it was always my word against his.
I am currently fighting through each day not to repeat my pattern of taking him back just to start over again,he is trying very hard to get back into my life and it is a battle but with Donna’s help i am feeling stronger and stronger with each day. Its a long road but what helped me to get back on the wagon of life was accepting that what he did was not my fault and i did nothing wrong to push him away.
It is still hard for me to believe that the man i loved so dearly and with all my heart doesn’t have one but i have accepted it and with all the information i have now my eyes have been opened.
I believe that if it was not for the support of Donna and Lovefraud i would still be stuck on that rollercoaster.
With time and acceptance of the situation you will get through this and come out a stronger person than you were before.

good grief

Good morning everyone here at LF!

For those of you that remember me know that much like all of you I was reeling from my interaction with my ex girlfriend who I think is a sociopath. You all know the story because you’ve lived it yourselves. Personally, a brief refresher, she talked marriage and kids and moving here to be with me blah blah bah and then she vanished into thin air. Never uttered a single negative word to me, no provocation, no explanation, no goodbye, just gone.

I tried to get in touch by sending one email a month for 3 months trying to get in touch with her and I got no response. I stopped posting here because my mind was becoming jaded with my intentions to reach her instead of realizing the reality of what she has done.

I still read articles here regularly but I didn’t want to take space in the forums away from people who really needed it because my situation hadn’t changed. After 4 months of NC on my part, after realizing that I’d never hear form her again, and beginning the process of getting over the absolute love of my life, she has resurfaced. I really, truly don’t know how to handle it. All I know is this human being meant more to me than anything and touched me in a way no one ever has. I was never happier in my life until the day she totally sold me out.

She wrote me a brief letter apologizing for everything, said there was no excuse for her to treat me that way and that she is truly sorry. she went on to wish the best for me and my two pets and hoped that I was doing very well. she signed it love and then her name. She didn’t ask any questions or ask for a response but the act of her resurfacing to apologize is meaningful to me.

here is the important part to me, I don’t know if she is just trying to clear her conscience (which I thought sociopaths didn’t have) or if there is a bigger purpose behind her reaching out to me after all this time has passed. She wrote me a week ago, I’m yet to respond.

I have no intentions of clogging these forums up, there are people who need more urgent care then me. I’m still recovering from the tornado that is my ex gf but I miss her to death. My family and friends would probably write me off if I accepted her back into my life but I don’t even know if that’s what she wants nor do I know if it’s what I want. I just know she meant the world to me and I just know that she pretty much destroyed me. I appreciate all insight and if no one responds then I’ll understand that there are more pressing matters than this. I just figured there was no better place to come for a little advice then to the wonderful, well intentioned people here at LF. Thanks in advance. Onward and upward…

good grief

I’ll just add that I’ve pulled myself out of the rut I was in. I’ve been living it up, traveling all over, reconnecting with old, good friends, and everything has been going very well. But there isn’t a day, maybe not even an hour that passes where I don’t think about this person and what she meant to me and how much I miss her. Not sure how to feel, what to do, etc


I, too, find myself questioning who I am. I have spent a decade dealing with a sociopath, a child of a sociopath and the family court system. My son’s father married a bipolar woman with three daughters and the ex husband is where I was when my son was a toddler. He does not have the confidence nor tenacity to take on the court system and the drama that goes with dealing with sociopathic behaviours. And he will lose his children because of it….not in the legal sense but in the moral sense. They will be brainwashed and resentful towards him and he will miss out on the most precious gift of all.

I used to wonder if I did something to incur all this and what kind of parent was I that I would bring a child into this? But I know now, I am a survivor.

I have sole custody of my son now and his father no longer contacts either of us going on 18 months) since I set the rules now. My son no longer has value to his sociopathic father as money and custodial and visitation rights are no longer his battle to fight.

My son obsessed for a while that he had his father’s DNA and that he would be the same…quite frankly I used to worry the same way. But he has something his father never did, a conscience and a heart.

But I can tell you that environment and reassurance can change that. I know now that the purpose his father served in our lives was to make us both strong, confidant people who know right from wrong and can make the most out of life.

My son is in the Big Brother program now and has shared experiences and met some really wonderful people that he would not have had his father been any different. That is his father’s legacy.

My financial state is in ruins, but I appreciate all the little things in life. My son and I share experiences together that would not have happened if I had to share his time with his father or if my financial state was where I projected it to be.

So yes the person I am is because of the person he is but in many ways I am grateful for that. Good always outweighs the bad if you want it to be…..


good grief,
It is VERY common what she is doing. Dropping out of your life (w/o a trace) and then resurfacing is very common behavior for these people.

N/C, N/C, N/C……If you were sending her an email a month then you were not maintaining no contact. SHE was doing N/C on you by not responding. Do what SHE did. Do not respond.

If you contact her EVEN once, you will be back into her “game”. Make no mistake it is a GAME.

You said yourself that you just pulled out of the rut you were in. Don’t underestimate this. You will be miserable again in NO TIME if you allow her back into your life.


Does it not seem as though they almost have a built in radar that KNOWS when we are feeling extra vulnerable or lonely? I know my ex P seems to know when to pounce.
I’m new here as well and still getting this person out of my life. I have found, however, that he can cry at the drop of a hat. He has literally been on his hands and knees begging for whatever he wanted at the time. I no longer respond to this and I’ve been called cold hearted for that. And I don’t respond to that either. I honestly do not love this person, nor do I have any respect for him. It’s a place of total indifference that I am reaching and I like it! He HATES it. Oh well. I take care of me, myself and I to the best of my ability.
It IS an addiction and I read the article on this. It was very enlightening and I can see how I did a lot of those behaviors based on what I perceived at the time.
I feel for everyone who is dealing with this regardless of where you are in the process.


good grief:

I remember you. The letter is a manipulation, pure and simple. I can guarantee you that she has probably exhausted her current source of supply, knows that he’s about to toss her, and she is casting around for a new source of supply. As you’re discovering, NC starts on the physical front and follows on the emotional front. Stick with it. Your life will ultimately be much better for it.


Mine was the same way — cry on command, begging on his hands and knees. Funny thing was, by the end, all I remember is watching the performances and noticing how little emotion was going on beneath the surface. Indifference is the best place to be. Keep up the NC.


good grief and Cat and everyone who fears being sucked back in or misses their sociopath:
I have one little piece of advice. Get a small recording device and record all conversations with them. In some states you are better off using a video cam or your cell phone vid cam for legal purposes. These recordings serve soooo many purposes, the least of which is to REMIND you of why you left him/her. Time has a way of blurring the awful reality which never really sinks in to begin with. The fact that such HORRIBLE EVIL EXISTS AND WALKS AMONG US, is almost too much for the mind to accept. We justify and water it down a bit so we can deal with it, but that leaves our defenses weakened. We need to have visual and audio reminders of the evil words and deeds so we stay vigilent. For those who are NC, write in a journal, the horror you experienced so you can refer to it in the future.

For me, the recordings have also served to prove the truth of my statements to my friends and the P’s friends. The recordings of him speaking to me are 180 degrees the opposite of what he told everyone else. With these recordings, I have proven myself. Hopefully, in the future they will serve a purpose in the court of law.

Because of these recordings other people have provided me with small amounts of information about the P that I didn’t have. Last of all they confirm my sanity, to myself when I experience doubt and to others who (understandably) can’t believe the unbelievable truth of what the “nice, kind, gentle, animal-loving, intelligent, genious, man” really is.


Hi Good Grief:

I believe the advice today is the same as it was the last time you were here…..NO CONTACT.

This girl is like a drug to you, very addictive. We established this the last time.
You do not want to go back for another hit off “the drug”.
It sounds like you are doing just fine on your own without her.

Besides, the feelings you have for this girl are not being reciprocated in a healthy way.
Her feelings for you are fragmented, at best.

Unless she’s been fighting over in Iraq for the last few months, there really is no excuse for her behavior of going MIA on YOU, and most relationships can’t function with huge chunks of time missing in them, anyway.

My advice is to stay in No Contact, and get on with your life, which you are already doing.

good grief

thanks for the feedback everyone. I certainly am not surprised by the advice given and I know it to be true myself. There is one more strange piece to this bizarre tale that is my life (LOL). I recently saw one of my best friends from where I used to live and we got to talking about all of this a little bit again. He knew her and liked her alot at the time. He proceeds to tell me that against my wishes, because he did ask, he sent her a letter 5 months ago and in a nice way gave her some shit for what she put me through. I had no idea this happened until last week and then I got her letter soon after that. I thought it was a coincidence. Then the strangest thing happened and as I was telling him a few days after I received her letter he tells me that he sent her ANOTHER letter in a drunkun stupor at 3:30 in the morning. I asked him to forward it to me and my jaw hit the floor with what I saw. He destryoed her, it was only a few sentences long but he said some of the nastiest, death wish stuff I’ve ever read. I didn’t even express feeling that way about her when I saw him but he was so fired up about what she did to me still that he felt compelled to say those things. But then the next mornng she writes me and apologizes for everything and wishes me well. How in the world can anyone dissect complexities of this magnitude.

I know I know better than to get back involved with this person again. But it was just the weirdest thing hw I was just doing my thing, minding my own business, and all this kind of blows up in my face again. Life’s strange 🙂

It was just weird that he wrote stuf that nasty and then she came back and broke the silence to me after 7 months with a concise, but very apologetic, friendly email but never asking me to respond. If she wanted me to respond, wouldn’t she have said something to that effect? Or is this a tactic to see where I stand with her, if I’ll let her back in? I kind of just chuckle about it now, at how bizarre this has gotten. This is the only place in the world that people can speak from similar experiences, anyone else I talk to about it really doesn’t understand what it was like. Thanks lovefraud. And than you all for getting back to me. I still love you rosa!

good grief

and Donna, I look forward to reading that link to that article. I’m sure it’ll hit the nail on the head along with just about everything else around here…thanks

to innocent to know

Good Grief, Your story sounds so much like mine and a lot of other people’s on here. I too am new here, but I have been reading these blogs for over a year. The NC is the only way to keep them out. I write in a journal so I will remember how my S treated me. I was engaged to him and became very close to his daughter(who is an S also) and his mom and dad. His own brother does not like him and has to “clean up” so many times his messes with all the past ex’s. I wish I would have met him first, he could have warned me, lol. He would tell me one thing and tell all his friends something else. He is now engaged to a woman who he knew in high school, 4 months after I broke it off with him, again and for the last time. She had a thing for him then and he moved on it very quickly! I guess she’ll have to find out for herself, and hopefully her family will be there for her when she realizes what he is! Take care and hugs


Good Grief,
someone who would do that to you is a narcissist at bare minimum and perhaps even a sociopath. When your friend wrote that scathing letter, it caused a narcissistic injury. They always want revenge after a narcissistic injury. The female narcissist is actually more dangerous than the male. (My ExP is more like a female-P in his tactics) They use subtle manipulations, slander and psychological warfare that goes to your heart and causes permanent damage. They are able to hold back any rage until the hook is placed firmly in your heart, they don’t slip up by coming at you straight forward, it’s a side-long slither through the grass then suddenly they’re nuzzling your neck and all you’ll get is a flash of the fangs before the bite sinks in. Get the picture?


Good Grief,
The important thing to note is that she has the uncanny ability to know EXACTLY how to get back into your head. Even after all this time. That is what they do best.

You might not respond to her, but she has already taken up space in your head. At the end of your email you are already questioning her tactics or if she wants you to respond or……..

Don’t think about it in this way as that is how she created the slippery slope to begin with. Its part of her strategy, to get you thinking about her.

N/C, N/C, N/C….

God…I love LF…I dont know what I’d do without it! This blog sent me to tears because it is everything I feel and I know what its like to be tossed to the side by the unbelievers…my mom included. So you do find yourself alone…trying to keep some normalcy while raising 4 kids….but we live in a hotel…it is not normal…and the bills keep piling…and you dont know how long you can keep your business going…but it is a reality…he is never gone…he waits in the wing to finish me off…and I sit waiting for the next court ordeal he will do to drain me of my last dime…Its so hard to comprehend such evil..I do find comfort in the luxurious times I can go into denial…but I too planning my future before you the S strikes again…and I WILL WIN…just to spite your souless being. I hope GOD gives you all strength….We need it ..we need each other…thank you all…Slowlt but surely getting stronger..I hope all S’s enjoy the pits of HELL

Ox Drover

Dear Goodgrief,

I remember when you were here before, and you were obscessing on writing a letter to her for days because she had gone NC with you, telling her in the letter what you thought about her and in the end you admitted you wanted this letter to CONTROL her. You went on about all the things you had DONE for her (I think she was ill if I remember correctly) and how much you had done and how little gratitude she had toward you and how she had gone NC on you.

I am glad that you are going on with your life. The friend writing her a nasty letter and then her “apologizing” to you in another one out of the blue does NOT mean that she has changed or that you should have a relationship with her.

From the long and detailed letters you wrote to her in the past (sent or unsent) and from the details you revealed about the relationship itself in the past, at the very least, whether or not she is a psychopath, she is obviously not a healthy fit for you.

While you may still think about her on a daily basis, the relationship IS and WAS NOT what you wanted it to be, what you wished it to be.

I suggest that you work on yourself, and work on EMOTIONAL NC as well as physical NC with this woman.

Whatever she is, she has not changed. You described the relationship (in your other posts a while back) as being pretty ONE sided, you gave and gave and she took and took, and showed, you thought, no appreciation for all the things you had done for her. She refused to come and join you in another city, after telling you that she intended to.

Many of us can recite a litiny of giving and giving to the other party in our relationships, and receiving little or nothing back in return for our generosity. Giving to others without receiving any reciprocity in return generally makes the giver eventually resentful and angry. Relationships should not be one sided. Even when you are giving to a helpless baby, a smile from the infant in appreciation is repayment, but you represented in the older posts, if I remember correctly ,that your relationship with her was not seemingly reciprocated. You felt like you had been used.

Sometimes we offer help to others who in their desperation or neediness take that offered help, but do not respond in a way that we see as reciprosity. I know that my egg donor offered freely to give me money, but what she wanted in return was control over me. It was not a gift, freely given, but by her “generosity” she wanted control of my life. Is it possible that you offered love and help to this woman, and expected a reciprocation of your love, but she took only your help and did not reciprocate your love?

I am not devaluing your feelings about this relationship, I am sure it was a very painful one for you, but your ADMITTED desire for CONTROL over this woman because she went NC with you after you had done so much for her, makes me think that whatever the relationship was, it was UNhealthy, but not necesszarily psychopathic on either side.

Of course I do not think it is fair or right for someone to take gracious gifts from someone and pretend to love that person to keep the gifts coming. I also do not think it is wise to have a relationship that is one-sided either, in which one person tries to ‘earn” the love of the other.

I hope that you will, Good grief, stay here and read and learn and examine both her, yourself and the relationship and learn from the situation, so that your life will be better. that you can acheive Emotional NC with this woman, take away whatever lesson there was in the situation and live a healthy life and have healthy relationships. The best thing I have learned here at LF is that no one can use or abuse me unless I allow it. I can’t fix them, but I can sure as heck improve myself. God bless you in your search for peace.

I really wish Alicia would check back in here on LF. To me, she was hovering too closely over the abyss, suffering from a tremendous amount of pain without relief.

I do understand being bombarded by suicidal thoughts and images. This was my nightmare for years. And I’m sure it’s hers.

I don’t suffer that constant nightmare any longer and I cannot express in words how awesome, how releasing it is to have a clear mind and spirit devoid of terrible, self harming thoughts.

I want her to know that she shouldn’t give up. That there is light at the end of that dark tunnel if she doesn’t give up on herself and life.

I’m not going to patronize her by offering a list of how tos because she is an unique, special individual with her own personal needs and wants. But I can offer her an attentive ear to listen while she shares her pain.

In many situations, just having a caring person listening without offering advice, is the best form of therapy there is.

Alicia, I will not be hesitant, afraid, overwhelmed, repulsed by anything you want/need to share on this website. Not in the slightest.

Me or one of the other superb LF tribe members will be here to listen and care when you wish to come back.

We are all ears, mind, heart and spirit.


I came to this site in hope that I might find an answer to what I am going through. I see that many people have faced similar scenarios in their lives and I would like to share my story and see what people think.

Well, I have known this guy for about six years now. I met him at school when I was just beginning college. He was asking about marriage but in the beginning I said to him that I wanted to wait to get married because I thought it was important to finish up school first. I thought that at least if anything happens in the future (divorce etc.) I could at least have something to fall back on and earn a living. I thought that he was fine with this. He never came empty handed. When we went out together he would pay for our meals and he always had a small gift (i.e. flowers, chocolate ) I am a very religious girl and I do not know how I let this happen to me but I will have to admit because I do not want to leave any details out of this story I am a very religious girl believing that you should wait until marriage before becoming involved sexually. I do not know it just felt natural and I allowed myself to become involved that way with him. Not all the way however.

Well, anyhow, about a year into the relationship I started asking when he would come to meet my parents. I was ready to get this in the open. And, he said to me “you cannot do everything.
you will not be able to manage all of the bills.” So, I said “I understand but I will be becoming a nurse and whatever you make we can put two and two together and I think we could make it.” He responded, “you have never had a real job before, you do not know what it is like out there. you cannot manage on your salary alone.” So, I said ok.

This is when he brought in the fact that he had run into financial problems. And, at this time I really had no money to help him. But, he said to me look if you cannot help me it is ok…I just will have to move back to my country and see what I can do. And, I said if you go back then I will never be able to see you again. He said well what else can I do. So, I took out a small loan to help him. Being in love with him I helped him out. I did not want to lose him.

As more time is going on…I am near now to finish school. He mentions that there is a business opportunity that he sees he stands a chance at. So, I said go for it if you believe its a possibility. Well, he asks me to help to pay for the security deposit on an apartment. The apartment was to be close to a mall where the business was to be set up. And too, I helped him with what he said would be for the application fees of setting up the business. Anyhow, he told me “thank you so much for your patience with me….all your help…I am sending all the documents the business is asking for etc etc.” As time goes by I said so how is the business going. And he said to me…”It was more work than I thought it would be so I could not go through with it. Living four hours away the setting up of it was too much.”

So, anyhow I said ok. Things happen. We continue to spend time together. And then, he said to me look regardless of what happened I am willing to move down here by you and work two or three jobs if I have to to make this work. He said I would listen to you if you have any suggestions. I said what about school…the medical field is a good field to get into because you are guaranteed to always have a job. And he said, yeah but that would be like starting all over. I do not have the sciences for it. So, I said well what do you want to do.

He said he had become aware of another business opportunity that he really wanted to pursue. And, when he gets it set up he would be able to go to school at the same time by doing online classes. So, I said go for it. I really helped him a llllooot getting this business started because he showed me the documents involved and because he sounded like he knew a lot about business. He told me about how he used to work for a restaurant and he was in charge of running it etc. He would correct other employees telling them how things should be done the right way. So, I ended up investing a lot into getting him started.

As time is going by he said to me he wanted to get back into school. So, I invested in a semester of school for him. When I would ask about how school was going he told me “school sucks” So, I said “well, how is it going are you at least passing” He said, its just difficult being by himself and having to work and the travel back and forth from where he lives and here.” He said to me after the term ended that he just could not continue with that right now.

He asked me if I remembered about the business he was trying to set up. I said,”yeah ofcourse.” He said well, I am still trying to work on that. And, he asked me for more assistance. So, I helped him some more.

Well, then comes August of this year. I went out with him. We ate together. Then we went walking in the mall. And, I wasnt seeing him mentioning anything about where we were headed as a couple or when he would come to meet my parents. So, I said,” soo whats your plans” Because for months I had been asking him the same thing and he would say to me “dont worry i have plans ; ). He responded at the mall” do not worry you have surprises coming soon.” So, in my mind I said finally ! Well, we are walking in the mall and hes walking over to things and saying “doesnt that look like a nice family gift.” And, I said, “I wouldnt tell you what to bring over when you come.” I felt awkward to ask anyone for a gift.

Well, that day ended. And, I thought ok soon somethings going to happen. He is coming soon to propose.

Well, then I went a period of 3 months exactly without hearing from him at all. And, during that time i was worried sick thinking omg what if hes sick or something happened to him. I called him maybe ten times a day. I even asked his friends online if theyve heard from him. And, the first time i asked they said all they know is that he loves me. To which I said, “how do you know that” And they said he used to talk about you a lot.” Apparently these were his roommates from the beginning of the relationship but he had moved out. They were the only people i knew that knew him.

Well…..finally I get a call from him. He apologized for not being able to get in contact saying its because he was going through family issues. He brought his mom all the way here to meet my family. And, in the flight she got sick ending up in the hospital. So, I said oh no, “can i come down and see her” Then I thought you know what maybe i shouldnt because if I get into an accident on the way there or lost or whatever. So, I said, when shes stable why dont you come down. Its been a while since I have seen you.

Well, when he comes down…I felt like it had been forever. I was so happy to see him and at the same time so anxious to know what our plans were. So, I said sooo when you going to come meet my parents they have been begging me to invite you over. And, his face went blank. He said,” you always bring this up. we have gone over this a million times. i do not even feel like eating right now. i want to go home.” So, I said forget i mentioned it…let us go inside and get something to eat.

While we are eating I said to him “hows your mom” He said she was doing better. And then I said well how does she feel about us. He said well…shes a little skeptical becuase you are of a different race than me. So, that stuck me through the heart. And I said…so how do you feel though. And, he said his feelings had not changed so I felt a little better. I even mentioned you know if you asked me to marry you tomorrow I would put my masters aside bc thats not important to me as getting married and starting my life. And he responded ,”well thats not how it was when you wanted to do your bachelors.” Well, it was time to go. And, he said if i could stay longer and I said no i have to get back home buuuuut if you would like to come home wiht me my parents would be excited to meet you and you could stay whole evenign with us and then go home.

He said , “are you serious ?!” I said, yes. He said “well, i would love to but this is not the right time. i am not even dressed.”

So I said ok. And he then asked me to see me the following day. I said I couldnt buut I could see him the day after that. So, he stayed here in a hotel until i could see him. And, I did.

Well, on that day upon arriving to see him he looked verrrry down and he was looking at his phone. I approached him and said whats wrong ? He said his mom was calling him on the phone asking him where he had been. And because she was sick he felt bad for not going back and making sure shes ok rather than overnighting. So, I said “oh, but do you have to go back right away” He said, no.

Then he said,” you know …the only way i see out of this is to move permanently by you interact wiht family more so that they know me for who i am and then ask for your hand. I am too far away and because they knew already of some of the money that you had lent me i already look bad. So, I said that would be great. I could see you more often. He said , “well would you be willing to help me. I said , “how much he would need.” He told me a large sum. So , I said wow in my mind. And, I said, well you know i work hard for my money. I definitely could not give that to you at one time. Little by little maybe. He said to me think about it.

Well, anyhow….we spend day together. I just could think to ask about things. And, he said i was making my time with him depressing. All I am doing is worrying now when he comes to see me.

Anyhow, parents got involved and asked me to put him on phone the following day after seeing him. They talked to him nicely and said…you know our daughter loves you very much talks about you all the time…when would you be interested in coming to meet us. And, he said he was going through a lot right now and did not know when. So, then they asked for a rough time frame. Anyhow, he said he is not sure exactly.

I felt bad i put him on the spot. He said to me “you deceived me you tricked me. now i do not even know who is calling me, . on and on i couldnt get to talk to him..finally he said call.

So, I said I am very sorry they just wanted to talk to you to invite you over nothing more. And he said next time i lie to him that i should not even think to talk to him anymore. Well, then he said you know if i considered helping him. He thought that that was our plan. I said, I will see what I can do. I began to help him.

He said to me, “if you cannot get it to me all in cash if i had anything valuable then anything woudl help.” “those things can always be replaced. Well, I gave him some of my jewelry. (when i had seen him before those three months he had looked really happy really good and this time he looked like really depressed and stressed) After I gave that then I thought back you know this is really too much from me.

My parents actually got involved and said you know what you should not give him any more help. They didnt know of the recent money he asked for. And i said you know what “I cannot help you anymore. If my parents knew about this this would really make you look bad in front of their eyes” he responded, ” you never listen to what i tell always do what your parents say. you are an adult you do not have to do what they tell you to do.”

All in the middle of this another guy had shown interest. Which I told him about to make it be known to him its all more a reason that he needs to come and meet them. I said I do not have any interests in this other guy. He is the only one i have loved and will only love. And he responded..”i know what youre going to do you will end up marrying that other guy just bc your parents told you to. ” “they do not respect your choice you have made. and the reason they put me on the phone was to judge me within just five minutes that I was no good for you so that you would marry the other guy”

I said this is not true i love you and only you. He said, “its not about that. at this point we both understand that. its about getting there.”

well, then after all of this i am on the phone one day wiht a friend and i get a text “how are you” i couldnt respond right away. in the middle of the call i got about twelve texts, “100, 90,…..etc. like a countdown.” and after the call i said, “i’m ok” even though i was feeling very down. and he said,”is that all i get after worrying about you you respond after an hour and i said i answered you as soon as i could i was on the phone.

the next day he said, “how are you in a text.” and i said im doing alright how are you and he said feeling he was alright. i called him because i wanted to actually talk to him not just text. And we talked normal. well, i was at work and i said you know i gotta go. And, when i am back to work he called me about six times. and i couldnt answer. so, when i got chance to call back, 15 minutes later he wouldnt answer. and i said in a text, i am trying to call you back. and he said, oh excuse, me you did the same thing. so, i said, i’m sorry i had to get back to work.
tried to call him anytime throughout work that i could but he wouldnt answer.

well, anyhow my parents left him a message only saying that he took a lot of advantage on me and if he was man enough he would call back and apologize nothing more and he texted me back saying, “that they left him so many insults..and that the accusations are unfair and offensive.”

And so i responded feeling bad…i said they just never got to know you….and he said then its not fair to judge someone without knowing them first. “he just feels very hurt from the messages and is feeling sad.

Twice Betrayed

Good Grief: I can respond to you because I am going thru the same type of situation-only it was me who walked out. This x of mine has remarried [three weeks and he was ‘forced’ into it. He is already calling me. First call was about taxes and I answered the questions. Second call was an apology with nothing else said. Then he says: “I will talk to you later.” I should add he started both calls off with the soft ‘hey’ of years ago. The first call is business and I had to take it….the second call was business but not really…hence the apology. Nothing else is said because they don’t want you to suspect there is ANY motive except sheer remorse. Then they quickly exit to throw you off center while you are waiting for the other shoe to drop….they don’t drop it. All part of the con. [ Time will pass and I will get another call etc……till I eventually figure out what the real con is about.]
In your x’s case your friend stuck her face in reality and let her know her con was exposed….so she emailed to ‘show she is really a great person’….and for you to tell your friend what she has done…which is apologize. See; they carefully ‘set the stage’ for what con they are going to run. Give you something that seems real and then move you closer and closer to what they want….while taking your guard down with each contact by asking for nothing and seeming sincere. As sky said; once the hook is set here they come….but they have to get the hook in first and that is done with seeming sincere, sorry and really a good changed person. Till they get you back hooked then out comes the demon to break you again till either you walk or they hook up with a better sucker. Sad….but this is the way they are and the good fun sweet person you love is only an illusion-smoke and mirrors……*sigh…….
I know….I hate that it is….but we have to face the reality.
*Think of it this way: you have an actor/actress you really like and you see them in a great performance that makes you a fan even more because of the role they are playing…you relate to it. [Then you watch the behind the scenes and that actor/actress is acting arrogant, demanding and treats people like they are less than they are. It taints what you think of them….but think of what you would have thought of them if you only saw them in the role they played.] That’s the P….they play YOUR ideal and MIRROR who you are back to you. They do this to everyone. When they first meet you they are sizing you up-getting your personality typed in the first few minutes…then out comes the mirror. [When someone exposes them they start running ‘damage control.]


I read your experience and you’ve been conned. I know that hurts, big time to realize that a person you cared for and loved was only exploiting you. But I’m pretty sure that’s the situation you’re in.

Any male or female, always asking for financial help and giving nothing in return is a con artist, a predator. That dude will drain you dry if you continue to interact with him.

From the conversations you’ve had with him, it’s obvious to me that he is very manipulative with your emotions. Trying to cause guilt and confusion so you will be unbalanced in your decisions and perspective.

I seriously don’t like this fella. I see DANGER signs all over the place. He’s little more than a user, an exploiter and you should make a firm decision to remove him from your life.

Consider what is best for you. What gives you strength, contentment, and happiness. If the dude can’t offer these things then he is a fraud.

I’m sincerely apologetic for telling you the harsh truth. It hurts. But rather the truth, reality than continue in such a harmful involvement with this guy.


How do you overcome falling in love with someone that used God to win your heart and then find out it was all a lie? What is real? I know what happened to me was real, but I can’t believe it. I can’t believe that there are really people out there like this? How do I get over the deniel? How do I get over wanting him back even after everthing I allowed him to put me through? I spent all the money I had saved on paying off his bills so we could build a house together and now I have no home. I want to get over him and quit thinking of him. I am devastated.

good grief

skylar…wow, that’s some heavy stuff there…are you saying she is trying to get me back in order to mess me up again in an attempt to get back at my friend? It’s weird because he sent that at 5 am her time and she wrote me at noon her time so she didn’t put a tremendous amount of thought nto it unless it was already on her mind and he just triggered it. And I defintiely thought it was interesting and almost manioulative to get so personal with her letter to me by referencing my pets by name, signing it with love, and resolving me of any blame…transparency?

I kinda wonder if it is eating at her that I haven’t responded yet or does she not care? maybe she sees that i’m not available to be manipulated right now and has already moved elsewhere or maybe she plans on trying again. matt, you speak so matter of factly that you must be referencing past experience…

I hear ya witsend, you are absolutely right that she has gotten back into my head, but certainly not like before. I feel like I have SELF control now, and that before I would have responded to her in a second now I am stepping back and looking at the situation with a clearer mind.

the whole time all i wanted was to hear from her, and I thought I never would, and then now that I do, I’m caught off guard and don’t really know how to feel or what to do. It takes a lot of energy to be thinking these thoughts again so, much like her, it is easier to do nothing, hence NC so far. But it’s not my nature to not acknowledge someone who is apologizing for making a mistake ya know? How does one address that morally? I feel like I’m apart of the problem because I’m doing to her exactly what she did to me. She never asked me to respond, but then again people tell me that when I wrote to her the very act of doing it was looking for a response so I guess the same logic would apply. I feel a little relieved in a way, it’s at least nice that my presence on this planet has been acknowledged.

oxy: it’s nice to hear from you again and I agree that she probably hasn’t changed…as to your question about it being possible that she wasn’t reciprocating the love aspect of the relationship. Sure, it is entirely possible, but I didn’t suspect a thing being that she was telling me she loved me literally multiple times everyday and without questioning or provocation she would often discuss her intentions to marry me and such.

It’s nice to be back here and to receive such thought out advice. I can see for myself that there really isn’t anything good that could come out of this. Even if everything somehow worked itself out with the relationship I’d alienate my closest friends and family who want nothing to do with her, and id never be able to trust her again. It’s interesting to be on this side of it now. Before I was desperate to get though to her, and then I backed off and she pops up again like some of you predicted. It’s hard to interpret if she is just trying to clear her conscience or if she wants something from me. Being that I thought they didn’t have a conscience, and that she showed no conscience for so long, I suppose it could be the latter. And until Twice betrayed wrote what she wrote I wan’t sure what it was but now it seems like it could be the latter. Twice betrayed, that was a well put blog post you had. very enlightening. thanks everyone. It’s nice to know that this isn’t running my life right now. It’s almost like now that I got the apology from her, I just want this to be done.

thank you


Forgot to say how can someone turn 90% from calling you all day long and then once you let the counselor and Pastor know what is going on, he turned away from me and would no longer have anything to do with me? How does someone do that?

good grief


it’s cliche, but unfortunately time heals all wounds. and i say unfortunately because it is not a quick fix. you can not get OVER the denial, you have to go THROUGH it. As my friend LTL used to say, it is a process. With getting THROUGH the denial you will get THROUGH the desire to want them back.. That might may flicker for ever, but think about if they came back how ackward it would be and you could never trust him again knowing now what you know. The more you read here the more you will learn and the more you learn the more you would kick yourself upside the head if you ever gave in.

good luck to you, everything will be alright and it all works out in the end. but then I could be a hypocrite cuz I still don’t have it all figured out quite yet and I have to resist the urge myself. its a process alright.


Sally I am so sorry for your pain and that you’ve been abandoned by justice. I woke up Sunday morning and sobbed for 3 hours until my eyes were swollen. I once felt God’s loving presence in my life (even through hard times like the illnesses and deaths of my parents at an early age). But I feel nothing from God, not ONE person can imagine what this man has done. They dont’ see the lies, twisted delusions that only serve his needs for status and looking like a fun loving man. My sociopath husband, a doctor, is admired by his friends, family, patients. He creates his own reality. He convinces and captivates everyone around him. I NEVER felt so alone. I cried on my sofa and realized that all my descriptions of his behavior to anyone who would listen just can’t sum up his character/personality disorder. I felt like screaming for help and i know that not ONE person will hear me and my once strong faith, I know that God does not hear me or does not exist. I might as well be in space with my sociopath and the memories of what he has done. ITs not over. I have 3 boys, 2, 7 and 13 year old. He told my son that he lied today, that Daddy never said that. My 7 yr old’s face was perplexed. He thought he heard Daddy say that and now Daddy is convincing him that he didn’t say it. Later he said, “well maybe I just thought he said it.” I had to say bad things about his Dad. This is not a typical divorce. I need to protect my children. Help them label this behavior so it doesn’t become their behavior, so they don’t think they are crazy. I told him “Daddy always told me I didn’t see or hear what I swore I thought he did or said. He always turned it around on me. Darling, you are questioining your judgement because Daddy has convinced you that YOU lied when he lied! Mommy thought she was crazy for 16 yrs. Don’t question your judgement. You know the truth, honey. Who lied? Who Lied? Not you. I love you and I”m sorry this is happening to you but I can help you from falling into the trap.’ So is that “parent alienation?” Am I bad-mouthing my ex. Yes. But I have to save my children. I hate living like this. At times I want to give my kids to him full time so I don’t have to ever see him or see anything that reminds me of him. And so, as you sit your chair devastated and with your soul and self gone from your body wishing you had your children -I am in rage considering giving up my only gifts in my life. But they are half HIM and HE is evil. He has no conscience, no remorse, no empathy. How can you accept? How can Sally accept? She has cancer now BECAUSE of someone who is ruthless. Its okay when someone is ruthless and law enforcement, attorneys, family see it. Its hopeless when the ruthless looks innocent and the victim is made to look like the crazy, unethical one. So it takes a toll on our bodies and even if Sally (or me) accepts the past and lives day to day -the future has been destroyed. I also was told we had tons of money. He encouraged me to spend for him, with him, with the children. He was in debt not “accumulating wealth from a 20 yr old medical practice.” I am divorced. I get alimony. I cannot get remarried, live with someone, I cannot move more than 30 miles away, I can’t sell the only asset I got – the house – because he has a $200,000 home equity loan on it that supported his drugs/penny stock gambling. He hid money but he won’t pay the loan off so I can sell the house. But even if I did, I am in prison -can’t move forward with someone I love or by relocating my residence so I can get away with him. I’m afraid that some of us will never be able to move forward and accept. I wish I could give Sally a hug and tell her that I believe her.


Thank you good grief! I am new to this site and have been praying if I should even join. I thought it would be easier to leave it along and it would go away! I have had alot of support but they don’t know what I have been through and why I am having a hard time getting over someone that did me so wrong.

If there are anyother suggestions they are welcomed. Do they ever come back, once they have been found out?

Twice Betrayed

good grief, you are so correct…it may be possible the flicker is always there. I know I’ve been married to two P’s and I [now] know the score, the con, the game- to the point that I can ‘name that tune’ when they open their mouths….I am glad to be free ….however, deep inside burns a small ember that still can ignite a feeling of desire and love that I must logically override with the reality of who they really are[=liars, cheaters, users and abusers]. The ever burning hope/wish of what was and what might have been……lost in the ashes of a very good illusionist.

Twice Betrayed

2ndpeter2: in response to your question-do they ever come back? Not if you are lucky. :):):)
But…..yes, they do ……when their fan club gets low….it’s all about them.

to innocent to know

I think it’s all about the fact that we were giving all our love and thinking they were also giving all their love to us. It’s hard to honestly think they were not. That’s why we hang on for so long, to the lie. If they have a MO or track record of doing it over and over, RED FLAG!!! It’s just that by the time you find out, your hooked.

to innocent to know

It is just a game to them, a game to win and you lose.

to innocent to know

I found something better to spend my time on, going back to school. It doesn’t ease the pain, just gives me something productive to focus my attention on.



“…The ever burning hope/wish of what was and what might have been—lost in the ashes of a very good illusionist.”

good one.


do they ever come back?
yes, in your weakest moments!
… and with the most bizarre stories/emails/texts/voicemails.
once you really ‘get’ who and what they are, what they say or want will suddenly seem so pretentious and shallow.
don’t think they will ever change. ever. ever. ever.
they are demons who have a seventh sense of when a potential victim is feeling lonely, or needy, or wanting a hot sex partner, or wanting to believe in love again. They’re scoping out the scene to get the bitch with the most bang for their buck (read: effort — they’ll only use your buck). How gross is that?
Have you ever seen “Dexter?” there’s one scene where he walks into a party … looks around … and declares: “Normal people don’t stand a chance.”
we don’t. stay far away.


Good Grief,
I remember you, too. It seems this latest act on her part has got you obsessing all over again the what if’s and why’s. Like Oxy says, you need to make a commitment to let this go. It does not matter why she wrote or what she wants. She up and walked away from you with no explanation. What difference does it make what someone like that wants? My S didn’t show up for a date, with no call and no explanation. That’s all it took for me. I did not wait for him to do the things your ex did, though I’m sure he would have if I’d given him the chance. Sounds like you have been doing so well, and I hate to see you fall in the hole all over again over a letter that was probably frivolous and manipulative on her part. Let’s assume it wasn’t, though. She apologized to you. She did not want to see you again or get back together. Just accept the apology (without responding) and move on. People like this only play games. If you let her back into your life, she will destroy you. My ex was playing these same games toward the end. I wavered for a few weeks over what I should do, but I never contacted him again. It has been a year and a half and I am 100% over him. You can be too, but not if you keep putting more energy into it. Make no mistake; she will destroy you if you give her even an ounce of your energy.

OMG, your guy is a classic con artist. I have had types like this try and con me before, but did not fall for it. They make you feel like you are a bad person if you do not give them money. And they always need more money. I’m so sorry you got used. You should be pretty angry about it, and I hope you don’t have anything to do with him again. These types are very dangerous and know how to play with your emotions to get what they want. Please just walk away before he does any more damage. You sound like such a trusting person. Have you ever seen House of Games? He reminds me of the character in the movie played by Joe Montegne. Great movie, and many people here will recognize the sociopath from their own lives.

Twice Betrayed

Oh, lostingrief….you nailed it/them with that last post! *high five


Hi Good Grief,

I get 100% what you are say and understand all the questions that are running through your mind, i have been going through the same.

Let me tell you my story, i was engaged to a sociopath and he has been coming in and out of my life for the past three years, i took him back everytime with the promise of change and how much he loved me and he would do anything and give up anything for me. so in turn i took him back over and over again, only to have the same result everytime.

He even went as far as say we would run away and start our lives all over again just me and him against the world only to dissapear again never to be heard from again till the next time. Everytime this happened i had to pick up the pieces and start all over again with the burning question “WHY”.

I am now currently going through this with him again,except this time i have built enough strength and courage to say no and have NC with him, he is trying everything in the book even to the point where he is calling me at work and leaving strange names and numbers in an effort to get me to call him. I still find myself doubting myself and the same burning question “WHY”

He too was the love of my love and i was devestated when he left like he did but i have managed to say no and stand my ground as i know that i need to for my own future happiness and sanity,it is hard but the rewards at the end of this road are far more worth it.

I have found a partner now that cares,respects and loves me. There are not issues of trust or concern for betrayal. I am a much more confident person now and have finally found the strenght inside of me that i never knew was there.

NC works and helps you to think about yourself and what you really want without your own judgement being clouded by the lies.
I am a very soft heart person who believes the better of people, it has been very hard for me to accept that there are people like him out there. That is the biggest thing i had to accept and realise.
Just imagine having control of you and your emotions again,feeling like a whole person. Hang onto that everytime she contacts you and it is hard to do NC but really worth it if you can.

Be strong and have faith in yourself.

good grief

Thanks or the response Angie…

just out of curiousity, do these guys know they are sociopaths and feed off of that and each other. Like is there a “league of sociopaths”, or an online forum where they share their stories with one another? Or does what they do just come instinctlively to all of them and they lack the knowledge that other people out there exist that are just like them? Has a socipath ever gotten over on another sociopath?

And finally, I’ll ask this. This is probably just the weak, naive, caring side of me that got me into this mess talking, but is it possible that she is actually being sincere? Like she wants nothing to do with me but just wanted to apologize? Is there ever any success stories with reform for these people? ever? I’m just curious…Hope your all having a good day.


good grief:

There is at least one on-line forum where Ss hang out. Which, in a weird way surprises me, since they as a rule do not play well together. Robert Hare says they can form temporary alliances of a sort, when their “skills” are complementary, for example, when a fast-talking conman teams up with a S who enjoys breaking people’s legs. As for whether a sociopath has ever gotten one over on another sociopath, I refer you to the Bernie Madoff scandal where several known N/S/Ps invested with Bernie.

No reforming them. Robert Hare and numerous other experts in psychiatry have concluded that there is no cure for Ss. As a matter in fact, therapy just makes them BETTER at conning and manipulating people.

There is no chance in hell your ex is being sincere. That is magical thinking on your part. The only time they “apologize” is if they want something. I speak from personal experience on that one. Numerous other bloggers on this site will back me up on that statement.


good grief,
the first time I met my P, he walked into my office with a single flower, gave me a complement and walked out.
Everyone else who gave me flowers also asked me out and I would usually say no, because I didn’t know them.

He needed to establish the idea that he wanted nothing from me, so he didn’t ask me out the first time. After that it was one con after another for 25 years.

What I’m trying to say is that they are smart enough to know that the defences must be weakened before they can set their hook and reel you in. You already know who she is. Don’t question her motives. They are called “people of the lie” for a reason.

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