I recently received this note from a reader in Ireland:
The reason I’m writing today is I have a friend who is in the same position has just recently had contact from her 2.5yr old son’s sociopathic father, looking for access.
She is learning all about what having a sociopathic father actually means, has read the book (Just Like His Father?), but is still unsure whether to allow it or not.
What do you think? Any new research? Anything that shows clearly kids do better without contact?
I do not know of any new research on this topic. We previously discussed two papers parents should be aware of; one concerns antisocial fathers and the other concerns antisocial mothers.
Antisocial Fathers
The common belief is that children are better off having a relationship with a father even if that father is a sociopath. In a landmark study, the only of its kind, researchers proved this is not the case. This study examined the children of 171 fathers high in sociopathic traits and 167 fathers low in sociopathic traits. In the two groups taken together, the presence of the father and his caretaking behavior weakly correlated with less antisocial behavior in children. However, when the two groups were examined separately a startling finding emerged. When fathers who were low in sociopathic traits were present in their children’s lives, children did substantially better. When fathers high in antisocial behavior were present in their children’s lives, children did much worse, especially if the father lived with them. The risk of conduct disorder in the children of antisocial fathers doubled when the fathers resided with the children.
“When highly antisocial fathers reside with the family, children experience a double whammy of risk for antisocial behavior. They are at genetic risk because antisocial behavior is highly heritable. In addition, the same parents who transmit genes also provide the child’s rearing environment. We found that a father’s antisocial behavior accounted for his children’s behavior problems independent of any genetic risk he may have imparted, particularly when he resided with the family and spent time taking care of the children.”
-Sara R. Jaffee, Ph.D. and Colleagues
Antisocial Mothers
There has been one scientific study of mothering and sociopathic traits. In this study, researchers linked scores on the sociopathy scale of a common personality test (MMPI-2) taken during pregnancy to later mothering behavior. This test is often given to people undergoing custody evaluation so it is important to know about this study. High sociopathy scores are linked to problem parenting in six areas:
1. Lack of warmth
2. Passivity/neglect
3. Harsh/abusive discipline
4. Inconsistent/ineffective discipline
5. Poor monitoring and supervision
6. Aggressive values
In this study, mothers completed questionnaires and their parenting behavior was observed during two laboratory tasks. Direct observation is very important, because it is difficult to understand sociopathic parenting without first hand observations. During the observation periods, mothers high in trait sociopathy were observed to show a lack of warmth and to use harsh and ineffective discipline. The ineffective discipline of at risk children is just as important in the development of sociopathy as is lack of warmth. Ineffective discipline does not enable a child to learn impulse control. Lack of warmth impairs Ability to Love. The aggressive values cherished by sociopathic mothers also impair a child’s moral development. It follows that sociopathic mothers pass on the disorder to their children by poisoning The Inner Triangle.
Other considerations
Remember all the research can only give you guidelines. Sociopathy is a spectrum and it can be difficult to tell just how affect a mother or father is. Below is a list of questions you can ask yourself when considering a child’s involvement with an antisocial parent. It is my hope that those outside the family making decisions on behalf of children will consider this list as well.
1. How likely is sociopathic parent (SP) to encourage the child to form a bond only to disappear, abandoning the child?
2. How sadistic or potentially sexually abusive is SP? Is there a risk of parental kidnapping?
3. How likely is it that SP will use child to harm others- get new relationship by playing parent of the year?
4. How likely is it SP will use child to harm other parent?
5. Will SP teach antisocial attitudes to child? eg. suspicion of others and pleasure in aggression or getting over on the system?
6. Will SP expose child to other antisocial adults?
7. Will SP be overly permissive and not set limits or neglect the child- Put child in front of TV and not feed him or help him toilet etc.?
8. Will SP induce fear and guilt if the child does not do what SP wants?
9. Will SP be intoxicated infront of child? Will SP drive while intoxicated with child in the car?
10. Is SP doing illegal things and at risk for arrest?
11. Is SP so disordered that to give the child the idea SP is normal will harm the child’s view of humanity?
12. Is SP preoccupied with weapons or own them?
13. Is SP partaking of sexually explicit or violent media and at risk to expose child to these?
14. Will SP attempt to alienate healthy parent?
15. Is SP in treatment or has SP taken parenting classes?
16. Will SP dump child off on other relatives or baby sitter during supposed parenting time?
17. Will SP spend “support money” buying the child’s loyalty by purchasing toys? or taking child places SP cannot in reality afford if SP was supporting child as SP should?
If you can add to the list please do so. I am also looking for your examples of the above.
Reference List
Jaffee S, Moffitt T, Caspi A, Taylor A. Life with (or without) father: The benefits of living with two biological parents depend on the father’s antisocial behavior. Child Development [serial online]. January 2003;74(1):109-126.
Bosquet M, Egeland B. Predicting parenting behaviors from Antisocial Practices content scale scores of the MMPI-2 administered during pregnancy. Journal of Personality Assessment [serial online]. February 2000;74(1):146-162.
Thank you OxDrover. I have checked out Dr. Leedoms site. I will read her book. One book that was a real eye opener for me was “Why does he do that?” by Lundy Bancroft. It really cemented the fact that abusive people dont change, no matter what you do. Up until then, I kept on thinking, “maybe if I do this, he will get better!” My ex has a dual diagnoses- not only substance abuse issues, but also anxiety and antisocial disorders. He uses his charisma and “poor me” story to get money and housing from women. HIs ex-wife warned me, and I ignored her because I was so special and understood him and too smart. HA! Then, I got pregnant and the abuse began, mostly psychological and financial but once physical when I was pregnant. I went from being an independent financially strong funny women, to a scared shell of my former self. I have great empathy for Sandra Boss as well. I understand why she stayed so long and understand how strong she is.
Also, I want to mention something about children with no contact with their sociopathic parent. My daughter used to have supervised access to her father, now she doesnt see him anymore. I think I will worry about the “no father” affects on her. Part of me thinks I’ll be single until she is an adult. And I do want her to see what a normal relationship looks like. She has wonderful male relatives and I have wonderful male friends. But nothing day to day. She sees that my primary relationship is with her, and sometimes I wonder if that is really healthy. One time, a male friend (totally platonic and married) was joking with me and started to tickle me in jest. My daughter started to cry in response to seeing me laugh and push him away. I wonder what was going on in her little mind.
Dear Sadie,
Is there any chance she could have been molested by her fatgher or anyone else? Sometimes a way that children’s boundaries are over stepped is “tickling” games.
I am not sure how old she is, but you might ask her why she cried when your friend tried to tickle you and you laughed and pushed him away. Ask her who did that to her.
Tickling “all in good fun” can be actually taken to the level of abuse or pre abuse and if it is done at all it should be a 1 or 2 second thing, and not go on for minutes or “decades” or invade any of the child’s private areas. Few people enjoy being tickled or goosed.
I would encourage your daughter to have as frequent an interaction with good male friends and realtives. when I was a slingle parent, and my kids had no interaction with their father, I had a friend who had custody iof his little girl so we swapped being with the other’s kids, and mentors, we actually were almost an extended family for four years while I lived next door to him. It worked out great. He was a good role model and did things with my boys, and I did “girl things” with his daughter. Maybe you could join Parents without Partners too that is usually agood group where you might meet someone you could trade with and “role model” for each other’s kids. Or do things together with his kids and yours so your daughter can see a man interacting positively with his children and her.
Good luck with your daughter! and God bless.
I think you are very perceptive and bring up several good points. I remember being “tickled” by her father alot and he would never stop when I demanded it. When I was really pregnant, it even reduced me to tears because I couldnt fight him off. Perhaps when she was a baby, she witnessed some of that. I doubt that she was molested, but it is possible that he physically and emotionally abused her when I wasnt around. she showed no behavioral signs of molestation. She did start to show signs of expressive verbal abuse towards me(saying inappropriate swear words etc) and thats when I left her father. He has been supervised since she was 2 years old (she is only 4 now and hasnt seen him in 6 months). I did ask her why she cried when I was tickled and she couldnt articulate a reason. So I just said, “Mommy’s okay, your okay”.
I occasionally play tickle games with my daughter and give her complete control over stop and go. She enjoys it and I think it teaches her that stop means stop. I also tell her that she can say no and stop to grown ups . She sees that I respect her and I see her self-esteem shine.
My Dad was a consumate tickler. His horsey bites, that squeeze right above the knee, sent me into a frenzy.
Once, when I was probably about seven, he got ahold of me, and I was squeeling, screaming, crying, stop, stop, stop…..and my female siamese cat, (who never had kittens, and who slept with me every night) jumped out of a closit where she had been sleeping, and tore his arms into hamburger meat….she was protecting me!
To my Dad’s credit, she was not punished, and in fact was sort of esteemed in his mind. He knew she was protecting me.
She was the first cat in my life and I have always had a great respect for those of the feline persuation. I’m just not right if I don’t have a cat.
Now I have Pinky-doodle, my yellow tabby rescue cat, with googly eyes, and a crinkled ear……and now He’s getting fat!
Probably a result from almost starving as a kitten.
I know this is kind of off topic, but just wanted to check in.
I’m reading all the posts, but think I’m resisting getting into anything really heavy, on an emotional level, right now.
Glad to see so many new folks, here. Welcome! Really liked the article, Steve. Food for thought. I’m thinking…….
Dear Sadie,
Your tickle game with her with her having the power to say STOP and have it respected is I think showing her that you respect her boundaries and that she has a right to set boundaries. So many times adults do onot thinkk a kid has a right to set boundaries, but they do, and they should learn to set them at a young age.
I am so glad that he has not seen her, and Dr. Leedom’s searches for research results show that a kid is better off with NO father than a bad one. Your daughter is fortunate to have you for a mother. You come across as a very understanding and nurturing parent. Good for you!!!!
Kim, taking a break now and then from the “getting into heavy” stuff is a good thing, I think. It lets you digest what you have taken in….sort of like eating a meal, digesting it, then later eathing another meal. If we continually eat, we never get to digest what we have taken in. I think that “digesting” what we have taken in, putting it to work for us is a much better way to “get it.” Good for you!
Dear Matt, and OxDover,
This has been the first time I’ve had a chance to be on line since the last post. PLEASE KNOW… your tough love is NOT wasted on me.
There is a delicacy in managing the removal of my oldest. Number 1, the law. There wasn’t a signed contractual agreement when she moved back in. My rules, My house are met with toxic waste (accusation, devaluing, character assasination infront of my younger three. Furthermore, she works for a legal department and is well aware of the power she has. Aside from the legal power, she’s threatened (when I express that their stay here has exhausted it’s welcome) to bring in the younger three’s father (whom she hates) to threaten the security of the younger three, if I even think about threatening her security (a place to live).
Since her last episode, she’s in the “honeymoon” period. She’s acting as if nothing happened. Offering to pay a little extra in rent to offset the previous months high utility bills (not near as much as if she were paying the proper amount), and her lazy husband has actually cleaned up the back-yard that their dog made a mess of. They keep to themselves, and stay out of sight — for now.
The damange of her influence has already spead like a cancer. My level headed 15 year old is demonstrating the same bullying; threatening to call her Dad (whom she hates) to expose me when I set boundaries and refuse to be abused. The involvement of him, in any way, shape or form will be magnified a thousand fold. He thrives on drama. His family thrives on drama. I have been total NC for months. He tries to hook me, and I don’t respond. My oldest and now my teen-ageer threatening me to involve him, is a threat of…You cater to our needs, wants, and whims or you will be dragged back to court, again, and again, and again… It’s like they’d shoot themselves in the foot to spite me.
I’ve been told that both harbor a great amount of recentment toward me for not being stronger, and more protective then the legal system. Since my hands are legally tied behind my back, in their eyes, I gave up. And, as such, they no longer respect me. My war is not with might, but details. My day in court to present my weapons has not come. All they see is a passivity. The judicial system put my 15 year old daughter in the middle as GateKeeper, and then threatened her younger sibling with being given over to their father for custody, if the “gatekeeper” didn’t tend to the gate. Now, they threaten to legally ban her from visitation because she is angery at what she must endure; being targeted, rideculed, rejected, accused, character assasination, and devalued by her father.
It is too much for her. Now she explodes making similar threats to me; fueled by my oldest daughter’s unresolved issues, who believes she is entitled, and that I owe her for not being able to protect her from two father’s who rejected and abandononed her.
My friends, that my oldest tried to convince me were in agreement with her, are PISSED!!!! And, have rallyed to make a showing at my house, more often, to show my kids, all of them, that I’m not alone. I am supported, and to demonstrate that they are not easily swayed influenced by the likes of a 25 year old mooching off her single mom who is still raising three dependant children, alone.
It should be interesting.
I’ve thought of posting the house for sale, and when they move out, believing they have to because escrow is closing, announce that the deal fell through… But, so glad you found another place to live. The locks have been changed.
The hard part about this is my younger three are bonded with their nephew, and they love their older sister, even if they don’t like some of the things she does. Whatever I do cannot be seen as harsh, cruel, unfair, or in any way lacking in compasion for her…or, no matter what…I’ll be the bad guy.
I’m hoping the ralley of my friends and their influence will have a profound impact.
Isabell, I know you are frightened by your oldest child’s threats, but the only way to take back your power is to be willing to go through what ever she threatens. She mustn’t believe it bothers you one wit. Try this: Shrug your shoulders, as if bored or indifferent and say, simply, “suit yourself.” Period. Walk away. It worked for me and felt marvelous. Good luck!
Dear Isabell,
It sounds like you are living in a NIGHTMARE. I wouldn’t even iknow where to start to advise you how to extricate yourself from such a night mare. It sounds like you are trapped between the devil and the deep blue sea.
I lived in a nightmare when my P son was at home before his first prison sentence, and at a few other times have felt I was trapped by circumstances in one nightmare or another, most recently when the chaos with my egg donor and my other son’s (now) X wife—but I have determined that I will NOT live that way again.
It sounds like your 15 year old is being adversely effected by the relationship with your older daughter who sounds like a P herself. I’m not sure how many other kids you have or what their situation is but I don’t see your staying there is doing either you, your 15 yr old, or anyone any good at all.
The threats they make against you are threats—and if they actually carry them out—they may hurt you but at the same time, they are also using their LAST BULLET and will lsoe their “happy home” as well.
I think I would stand up and say “GO ON and do your best” I cannot see how they can continue to black mail you inito living in your home like this.
ONLY YOU can challenge their black mail. My guess is that your X would NOT want the responsibility of the kids. A friend of mine years ago was in a shape where the kids kept thinking that she was deliberatly keeping them from their WONDERFUL (not!) father, and the father kept saying “I WANT you to live with me but your mean old mother won’t let you”
So one day the mother said, “Okay, go live with your wonderful father” and the father was told by the kids, “Our mean old mother is letting us live with you from now on” and the father BACKED DOWN because he really did not want the kids, just wanted to stir up problems. So sometimes the only way to deal with a black mailer is to CALL THEIR HAND because once you call their hand they have to put up or shut up. The THREATS of blackmail are just that. When you no longer FEAR their threats YOU WILL WIN.
Get these people out of your life in any way you can if it me4ans that YOU walk out the door with your suitcase and any younger children that you have that will go with you.
Take legal action or whatever you have to do, but only you can know where to start on this or what is possible legally. I’d at least talk to an attorney. God bless you Isabell
Oxy,
All five of my support system families have responded to my request for support. They are intending to start making regular appearences at my house to show support of me; in spite of my daughter’s intent to isolate me. The men are going to do some fixing, and engage my daughter and son-in-law with list of responsibilities that they SHOULD be doing to assist me.
My oldest daughter started to pull a manipulative tactic with me, today, and one of my supporters witnessed it, and put her foot down, expressing her objection to the behavior toward me (without making a scene). The behavior immediately stopped, and turned into butt kissing, “Mom, is it ok if…. Do you mind if… Thank you for your help, today.” etc. My teenaged daughter was quick to defend her older sister, until her aunt (one of the supporters) shut her down, twice. That was the end of it.
Today’s supporter called her husband, out of town on a business trip, and explained what is going on, he asked, “Do I need to come home and set them [my oldest, her husband, and my teenaged daughter] straight?
I do believe my oldest daughter, her husband, and my teen are aware something is up. They are all responding to me in a more respectful way, this evening. Interesting.