I recently received this note from a reader in Ireland:
The reason I’m writing today is I have a friend who is in the same position has just recently had contact from her 2.5yr old son’s sociopathic father, looking for access.
She is learning all about what having a sociopathic father actually means, has read the book (Just Like His Father?), but is still unsure whether to allow it or not.
What do you think? Any new research? Anything that shows clearly kids do better without contact?
I do not know of any new research on this topic. We previously discussed two papers parents should be aware of; one concerns antisocial fathers and the other concerns antisocial mothers.
Antisocial Fathers
The common belief is that children are better off having a relationship with a father even if that father is a sociopath. In a landmark study, the only of its kind, researchers proved this is not the case. This study examined the children of 171 fathers high in sociopathic traits and 167 fathers low in sociopathic traits. In the two groups taken together, the presence of the father and his caretaking behavior weakly correlated with less antisocial behavior in children. However, when the two groups were examined separately a startling finding emerged. When fathers who were low in sociopathic traits were present in their children’s lives, children did substantially better. When fathers high in antisocial behavior were present in their children’s lives, children did much worse, especially if the father lived with them. The risk of conduct disorder in the children of antisocial fathers doubled when the fathers resided with the children.
“When highly antisocial fathers reside with the family, children experience a double whammy of risk for antisocial behavior. They are at genetic risk because antisocial behavior is highly heritable. In addition, the same parents who transmit genes also provide the child’s rearing environment. We found that a father’s antisocial behavior accounted for his children’s behavior problems independent of any genetic risk he may have imparted, particularly when he resided with the family and spent time taking care of the children.”
-Sara R. Jaffee, Ph.D. and Colleagues
Antisocial Mothers
There has been one scientific study of mothering and sociopathic traits. In this study, researchers linked scores on the sociopathy scale of a common personality test (MMPI-2) taken during pregnancy to later mothering behavior. This test is often given to people undergoing custody evaluation so it is important to know about this study. High sociopathy scores are linked to problem parenting in six areas:
1. Lack of warmth
2. Passivity/neglect
3. Harsh/abusive discipline
4. Inconsistent/ineffective discipline
5. Poor monitoring and supervision
6. Aggressive values
In this study, mothers completed questionnaires and their parenting behavior was observed during two laboratory tasks. Direct observation is very important, because it is difficult to understand sociopathic parenting without first hand observations. During the observation periods, mothers high in trait sociopathy were observed to show a lack of warmth and to use harsh and ineffective discipline. The ineffective discipline of at risk children is just as important in the development of sociopathy as is lack of warmth. Ineffective discipline does not enable a child to learn impulse control. Lack of warmth impairs Ability to Love. The aggressive values cherished by sociopathic mothers also impair a child’s moral development. It follows that sociopathic mothers pass on the disorder to their children by poisoning The Inner Triangle.
Other considerations
Remember all the research can only give you guidelines. Sociopathy is a spectrum and it can be difficult to tell just how affect a mother or father is. Below is a list of questions you can ask yourself when considering a child’s involvement with an antisocial parent. It is my hope that those outside the family making decisions on behalf of children will consider this list as well.
1. How likely is sociopathic parent (SP) to encourage the child to form a bond only to disappear, abandoning the child?
2. How sadistic or potentially sexually abusive is SP? Is there a risk of parental kidnapping?
3. How likely is it that SP will use child to harm others- get new relationship by playing parent of the year?
4. How likely is it SP will use child to harm other parent?
5. Will SP teach antisocial attitudes to child? eg. suspicion of others and pleasure in aggression or getting over on the system?
6. Will SP expose child to other antisocial adults?
7. Will SP be overly permissive and not set limits or neglect the child- Put child in front of TV and not feed him or help him toilet etc.?
8. Will SP induce fear and guilt if the child does not do what SP wants?
9. Will SP be intoxicated infront of child? Will SP drive while intoxicated with child in the car?
10. Is SP doing illegal things and at risk for arrest?
11. Is SP so disordered that to give the child the idea SP is normal will harm the child’s view of humanity?
12. Is SP preoccupied with weapons or own them?
13. Is SP partaking of sexually explicit or violent media and at risk to expose child to these?
14. Will SP attempt to alienate healthy parent?
15. Is SP in treatment or has SP taken parenting classes?
16. Will SP dump child off on other relatives or baby sitter during supposed parenting time?
17. Will SP spend “support money” buying the child’s loyalty by purchasing toys? or taking child places SP cannot in reality afford if SP was supporting child as SP should?
If you can add to the list please do so. I am also looking for your examples of the above.
Reference List
Jaffee S, Moffitt T, Caspi A, Taylor A. Life with (or without) father: The benefits of living with two biological parents depend on the father’s antisocial behavior. Child Development [serial online]. January 2003;74(1):109-126.
Bosquet M, Egeland B. Predicting parenting behaviors from Antisocial Practices content scale scores of the MMPI-2 administered during pregnancy. Journal of Personality Assessment [serial online]. February 2000;74(1):146-162.
Isabell, how wonderful to have such an amazing support system! xxxxx
Good for your family and friends!xx And good for you for having them:)xx
I have a couple of VERY good friends, I am VERY grateful for, and I will never forget their gentle kind support.
Now I am going to go off on a tangent with the waffle…
I have had absolutely no support from family throughout this ordeal, in-fact they have had a hand in trying to keep me crushed and floundering for as long as I can remember (my parents at the very least are/ were n’s)and actually move/d in for ‘the kill’ when they see/saw me weak(one kind uncle offered me help …for a charge if ya see what I mean…when I was at my lowest… lesson 1. with this lot help comes at a high price Yeuch! And usually an invitation into DRAMA club central”).
changing the dynamic for me with them, or actually more correctly extracting or emancipating myself, has been one of the biggest, most tiring and difficult things to come out of all this…and I am still going through it somewhat…although being absolutely NC with some family members has been the key for me.. and will continue to be…
I have temporarily had to ‘let go’ of my daughter, who was ‘bought’ by my mother for £3,000.00 and a rent paid apartment… good luck to you both I say! We all know how fulfilling paying for friendship is on both sides…especially when there’s nothing else to give…
Now the most urgent problems I am facing day-to day are actually financial ones. It brings up the ‘family’ issue, every time I get a call from a creditor, they ask ‘cant you ask friends or family?’, and I say no, and I get a pang, because it makes me feel ‘alone’… then I think about the reality of my ‘family'(rich as they are and PERFECTLY capable of ‘helping’, but never actually have”a vauge promise always though of help “IF YOUR GOOD— and then you’re never QUITE ’good’ enough and blah,blah, blah..) and how help=control, and go through a process of facing that reality, dropping the grief about it and jumping back into the driving seat.
Now even working very hard, and sticking to my budget and arrangements, I see myself back on track by the end of next year , if I am lucky, and its going to be tough, but I am already getting excited (not bitter) about the fact that when I come out of the other end of this, by sticking to my guns and stepping up to my OWN plate, I will have done it on my own, I will OWE nothing…in every sense. That keeps me trucking:)x and it stops any thought of me being a victim or dependant or needy in its tracks.
It also gives me freedom, to enjoy the good relationships I have with the good people in my life, on stronger, more real terms.
Bit of a grumble this morning I think…ah -well, better out than in;)xxxxxx
Also, I feel like adding that I have a beautiful little boy here, he has mild ADHD so he’s a little ‘bouncy’, but with the noise and drama of the P and the P/N/S family members turned right down low, and with me accepting my situation for what it is, and in turn finding that I am actually not so bad as a mother and person,feeling more ‘solid’,grounded( with a few wobbles of course, with the whole being human thing;), in less of a spin, I have found more joyful and contented moments and interactions happening with him and in my ‘little’ life now…
“We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars” – Oscar Wilde:)x
Isabell, that is fantastic!! I am so excited for you!! I’m looking forward to reading what you’ll have to tell as time passes and more happens! It sounds like your headed somewhere great. Best wishes to you!
Blueskies, Amen to all you said, I feel like anything from my family is just as you described it…Independence, is a wonderful thing, not that I’m even headed that way yet. You inspire me to get the engine going, Thank you!
Dear Isabell,
I’m glad that you have the support system, and that they are behind you. I can’t remember wher eyou live, but i think you live in another country. Setting boundaries and consequences with your daughter and her husband and also with your teenager is a good thing. I am glad that you have others to help enforce those boundaries, but in the end it will, and must be YOU who enforces them as well. Good job.
Blue, I am glad for you that you are pulling yourself out of the debt and other problems “by your own boot straps” I dont’ know if you remember when Aloha finally wrote the check for the last of her debt how grand she felt!
My egg donor also “bought” her “friends” within the family and the Trojan Horse P with money when that didn’t work with me, and I iam so glad that I didn’t in this instance fall for her deception and “gifts” that were really payments on CONTROL. I am so glad that you see that and reject it as a possible “solution” because selling your soul and self worth for money is a poor bargain. It also pithes them off when we get by and prosper without their “help” LOL GOOD FOR YOU!!!!
Thanks Oxy and heaven :)xx I guess the only people I will ‘owe’ in the end will be you guys (all of you,and the creator of this site:)x I am very grateful, but in no debt I hope)xxx
Isabell,
I am SO GLAD that you have some dear friends that can help you during this time. Because that is something I did not have. Not that I don’t have wonderful friends…I do. But none of them “stepped into” my world to help me reinforce my spinning out of control world. I was and still am alone when it comes to this.
And in a sense that I can’t quite define properly I think it is very IMPORTANT that you have this BACK UP that your kids can SEE with their own eyes, that others see what is going on.
In some way I think it has made my son feel more “power” in our situation over here because he doesn’t see that I have people behind me. Kind of like he FEELS like he has me isolated into his own “spin” of his distorted and NON REALITY world he lives in. And in a sense this makes him feel more power and control over both myself and his ability to distort what is REAL (reality) in the world outside of our household as well.
I know I am not explaining this well but it is hard to articulate what I mean.
Just know that I believe it is really important for you to have these people continue to come by your house and “call it” out in front of your kids and SEE the manipulation & crazy making.
Isabell, I can’t really explain any of this well but I want you to know that I believe (because of my own personal experience) that your daughters age (the 15 yr old) is really at an age right now that is so important.
You really have to go with your GUT here. If you see something that disturbs you….Know that your feelings are right on. DON’T second guess yourself. And do what ever you think you can do to to steer her away from her older sisters “way of thinking”.
My sons problems escalated so QUICKLY at this age it was almost UNBELIEVABLE. When I look back it really doesn’t even seem possible to me that it happened the way it did. I can NOT emphasize this enough.
One day our lives seemed pretty normal. And then all of a sudden I saw some personality traits that disturbed me in puberty (that didn’t even EXIST before) I tried dealing with this and the next thing I knew I felt like I was living with a stranger. It REALLY spun out of control THAT quickly.
I am unable to REACH my son at this point no matter what I say or what I do. His anger (that I saw initially at 15 y/o) has turned to hatred. His perception is HIS REALITY no matter how distorted it might be.
And I no longer can see any light at the end of the tunnel no matter how much I try to convince myself that if I just could do this, that, or the other that I might reach him. No matter what I do it seems to make things worse. I truly feel he can’t “feel ” the love or concern.
So anything you might do where you feel like you might “reach” your daughters emotions is of importance now.
Any time you see the “light” draw it out. Because once that light is turned off, you might never see it again.
I am not trying to scare you…..Or judge your situation as being the same as mine. I just wanted to share my own experience. (hopefully it can HELP you) When I looked back not all that long ago, I had NO IDEA even though I knew the situation was serious, how quickly things would escalate. Or how BAD they would become.
Feeling threatened in your own home by your own children no mater their age…..Is not a good place to be. I know this feeling well.
((((((Witsend)))))) I know the feeling when words sometimes get in the way. Please know this: You most certainly DO understand exactly what I’m dealing with. And, thank you for your insight.
I ache for you that you do not have the support. I’ve lived without support for so long because my ex did isolate me. He’d do it in such subtle ways. A comment that would lead me to think the people I felt were my support system were against me, or judging me, or talking ill about me. Rather then ask them directly, I just shrunk back, hid, and became even more isolated. He convinced me in warped kind of way that if I tried to defend myself, it would be admitting guilt. When in fact, the silence after his accusations, and smear campaigne confirmed guilt in the minds of many.
Based on the past experience, when my daughter tried to convince me that my friends are “onto me,” and planning a group meeting. I immediately became fearful, nervous, scared, and, and, and…. WHAT DID I HAVE TO BE NERVOUSE ABOUT? So, I became proactive, and went to each of them. To my delight, they are 100% supportive of me. They think I am an amazing mother. They have had concerns for a long time the way my oldest takes advantage of me. And, they are concerned about the influence she is having on my younger three, as my younger three, up until this point are recognized as exceptional, articulate, compassionate, loving, responsible, and mature beyond their years. Their behavior has often been examples to my friends on what they strive for in their children.
I am blessed to have such wonderful friends. They recognize, too, that non of this would be happening if (for example) there were a healthy strong male influence, backing me up. But, like you said, my daughter believed I was isolated, and she could call the shots, manipulate me, and take control. She’s in for a big surprise. And, maybe with the show of support for me, she will get the message, and back down, and realize the only control she has is over herself. It’s not that hard. Be responsible for yourself, your actions, attitudes and belongings. Don’t leave a mess for other’s to manage. Don’t take what doesn’t belong to you (including other’s time and resources you are not paying for). Everybody gets along when we each follow these principles.
If she doesn’t like it…. there are 8 people willing to help her pack. :::grins:::
Yes…it is a great feeling to have this support. A few days ago, I wasn’t sure I had it. I had to reach out and express my need. They were already well aware, and talking amongst themselves on what they could do to support me. You see my daughter had contacted them to try and discredit my character. This gave them notice that she was up to something. So they started talking about what they could do to help me. How sweet is that?
Dear Isabell,
I am so glad that you were PRO-ACTIVE and did not continue to believe that others were “on to you”—LOL I am glad that you went directly to the “horse’s mouth” and got the truth.
Maybe when your older daughter and her husband realize they are NOT IN CONTROL that they will behave better. Sometimes people can just get on a power trip and when they think they are in power they behave badly but are not actually Ps, so I hope that is the case, but if not, if she continues to behave badly and to adversely influence your teenager with her attitude, then get your support people to help her pack. She is responsible for herself, She is an adult and she is NOT your responsibility to provide for her a living or a place to live.
Also for your 15 year old, I know that even normal teenagers can be difficult to deal with, but setting and maintaining reasonable rules and boundaries of behavior are GOOD things and though she may resent them, they will also give her respect fo ryou and stability.
RESPECT yourself and expect and DEMAND tha tothers do as well. GOOD FOR YOU!!!! (((hugs))))
Dr. Leedom: Is there any research on parents who have sociopathic children. My children are now in their 40’s and I am just now discovering that their behavior for most of their life fits the description of sociopathy. Their father was diagnosed several decades ago as a “paranoid psychopath”. My life has been agony raising these children from the time I was 23 as a single parent. It would be so helpful if I at least had some information to help me understand what went wrong. I’ve spent my whole life in a state of confusion.
Dear Katiej,
I’m not Dr. Leedom, but there are many articles in this blog (go to the archived articles arranged by subject on the left) and read through those articles.
There is a genetic link to psychopathy, but also some environmental aspects too. But as the parent of a child who became a psychopath (he is 39 now) who is in prison for murder, I can definitely tell you I know what it is to raise one, and how it is confusing when they first start to show signs of this disorder. Mine started at puberty, and at first appeared just like any normally rebellious teenager, but quickly progressed to felony robbery and before he was 21, to murder for wich he is still in prison.
I kept up a toxic hope, a futile hope, that he would “get it” and come out of prison to at least live a violence free life. I finally realized that was NOT possible.
Giving up that hope that I could somehow effect a change in my son was dramatic and was traumatic to me. I’m several years out from that first trauma now, but it takes time, understanding and knowledge of what we are dealing with.
I suggest that you read the articles here about why psychopaths (also called anti social personality disorder and sociopaths) are the way they are, how they are different in brain chemicals, thinking and interacting with others. Of course there are also “levels” of them, some worse or more violent than others, but they all k now right from wrong, they all have the choices to act in ways that are not toxic or abusive, but they choose to act the way they do.
God bless you, Katie, I know the pain of raising such a child and then having to let that child-man go, to consider him as “dead” to me. Welcome here and hope you can find healing here, there are definitely people here who understand your plight. God bless.