Lately, many readers have added insightful comments to this blog. I would like to share this one and add that you may indeed know more about sociopathy than the so-called experts.
As far as charisma in sociopaths goes, my theory is this:
if a sociopath has no conscience (and no guilt), he or she might often be in a better mood – or at least appear to be in a better mood – i.e; generally more upbeat and seemingly happy with whatever is going on – than the average decent non-sociopathic person dealing with the typical ups and downs of daily life.
I have heard that when someone is feeling happy, his or her facial expressions. tone of voice, and even their pheramones and neuro-chemicals are probably more “attractive” or magnetic to others around them.
Therefore, is it possible that these happier neuro-chemicals, and aspects of body language – are responsible for increasing their charisma?
Also – if a sociopath experiences no guilt or remorse for their actions against others, and in fact does not even possess a conscience with the same rules and ability to empathize that non-sociopaths hold dear, then that would suggest that the sociopath is perfectly congruent in their happy, good moods; even when others around them are going into chaos, confusion, financial/emotional ruin, etc. as a result of the sociopath’s involvement in their lives.
And the congruency is what is so confusing and dumb-founding to the victims, because – it appears that nothing is wrong – at least from the sociopath’s view-point. I’ve heard that the congruency of a sociopath in believing their own lies is what often enables them to take a lie detector test, and pass with flying colors, because they don’t think they’re lying! (Although they are usually so intelligent, I wonder how they can not NOT know that they are lying”¦)
Further, let’s say I’d become addicted to the sociopath, and trusted him or her. When doubts came up in my mind, because of tiny indications that the sociopath was in fact a liar and perpetrator of fraud, hurt, deceipt, etc., I would then be dealing with “brain-fog” – a sense of odd and incomprehensible self-doubt, because afterall, my esteemed and trusted new friend (or counselor or spouse or whatever) certainly seems clear-headed and confident, so he/she MUST be more level-headed, and probably more right about what’s going on than I am!
An intimate relationship with a sociopath can undermine your confidence in your own intuitions. Believe me, no professional understands the sociopathic mind better than a victim. These posts prove that. Even Robert Hare states in his book, Without Conscience, that being fooled by a sociopath lead him to do his research.
Sociopathy is a condition that cannot be understood from afar or from reading books. Indeed, many professionals do not understand this condition even though they have dealt with it in practice. Personally, having interviewed many people who had sociopathic traits, kept me from seeing how different true sociopaths are from the rest of humanity.
The positive mood of sociopaths is the one feature that fools many professionals, including psychiatrists, lawyers and judges. Indeed the positive mood and confidence of the sociopath often stands in sharp contrast to the depression and helplessness of the victim.
If you feel your therapist doesn’t understand what has happened to you, you are not alone. In fact, you may be helping to educate your therapist, who can experience the impact of this condition through you. Most importantly, work to regain confidence in yourself and in your ability to be an observer of people. Chances are you are wiser than you think!
It’s interesting because it seems like alot of members on the board (myself included) have mentioned how difficult it is to get rid of thoughts of their sociopath. They seem to haunt us even after they have left our lives. As if the damage and distruction was not enough, they continue to be a part of our lives through our minds.
Why is it that sociopaths are so hard to get rid of? I understand that they will stick around untill they are completely cut off by the victim or when there is nothing more for them to take from us, but why is so hard for us mentally?
I have not experienced this issue with past partners…Sure you are sad after a break up, but I feel tormented by thoughts of the sociopath. Its alot like they still have control of us after they are gone. This drives me crazy. Is it perhaps because they have hurt us so bad? Or because of all the lies, not knowing the truth of reality?
There must be some thoughts on this topic. Please help me understand.
Tough cookie:
I just found an article that may help:
Emotional Memory Management: Positive control overy your memory, by Dr. Joe Carver.
http://www.drjoecarver.com/clients/49355/File/Emotional%20Memory.html
It has been eight months since the man I was living with broke
off our relationship. He was a Dr. with a long history of
drug use, girlfriends, an ex wife and he also is still married but
won’t let go of her. He enjoys making others suffer. He has no conscience, no feelings, and no guilt for any lies he has told.
His favorite comment was always “I feel it’s better to tell the truth, I do” and now that his legal wife and I have discovered the truth
together, we have found that he had lied to her the entire eight
years of marriage (he won’t follow through with the divorce,
he left her for me) and he informed me of who is next wife will
be while he was still living with me, still married and having
“affairs” while with me.
I was set free when he had a psychotic breakdown due to drug
use and was arrested, of course he was out within 10 hours
and terminated me from my job, threatened me with legal
assaults and restraining orders for “slandering” him, I finally
was able to tell the truth about him for the first time in almost two years. He accused me of embezzlement, stealing, made false accusations against me that I abused my children, and
slandered me to the unemployment office so that I would not
get unemployment benefits. I stayed a step ahead of him, but
he didn’t know it. These county workers and state offices
knew the truth about him within minutes of these accusations he
made against me. I was fortunate and some victims are not
that lucky, but we had gathered evidence quickly and he lost
his medical license due to drug use, mental illness and
sexual misconduct with patients, and a long history of these
same issues. We only knew what he told us, and we believed
him, after all, he was a Doctor.
I am finding it is taking more time than I would like to be rid
of the memories, and the worst part is remembering events that
I had not remembered months ago, not knowing when I will stop
remembering these things that happened, and conversations I
had with him when he twisted every word to make me seem
mentally ill. He blamed everyone in his past for his problems and had everyone in his office convinced that all the ex’s were
unstable. Well, we have all caught on, and I have been told
many times that he is not thinking of me as much as I am thinking of what he is doing, who is he with and what will he
do next. The legal system has worked in this situation due to him being a local Doctor. But there has been no blood shed so
they haven’t decided yet if I am officially a victim.
I have to tell myself often that this is temporary. We won’t feel
like this forever. But we have the right to be upset and afraid
and worried for some healing time I think. My feelings of this
man still having control over me are fading, after eight long months of being paralyzed to the point of where I could not get
off the sofa. I stared at the walls for weeks, I have been feeling
so defeated because I believed him, and I think it is not so much
losing him, than it is having to have held onto the truth I knew
deep inside but couldn’t do anything about.
I try to keep busy, but I still wonder who is tricking me, who
is lying to me, can I trust the grocery clerk, is so and so
manipulating me. I have not found therapy yet. I have asked
for help but I feel like no one cares. I am the victim and he
is getting the help. I have lost some friends due to my relationship with this man. But I am learning to stay near
“safe” people. Find a good definition of safe relationships for
yourself as I am. I had a friend for years…. she asked me how
I could have been involved with such a man when she had
warned me about him. Well, she is no longer a safe person for
me to contact. I have been told that I cannot let him win, and
I haven’t but it has not been easy due to the thought patterns
he left me with. I was his last dance partner (we never went
dancing) because I saw the truth and wasn’t afraid of him
and telling the truth about him although he slandered me and
made uncomfortable accusations against me, I stood up to him.
I hope you feel better, tell yourself this is temporary because it
is. I am finally off the sofa and funtioning, most days anyway.
I am alive, healthy, have my children, and he most likely
has another pretend relationship, no identity left and nothing
but crumbs to pick up. I have been fortunate enough to have
much support throughout this time, and give yourself time.
No contact is the best thing. I wanted to hang on to, just in case
he changed his mind about me.
When I met his wife and saw her suffering I knew it was over.
He isn’t going to win. We won’t let him.
It may not even be a matter of winning or losing but remember
they don’t care about us so don’t care about what he is doing.
One hour at a time is how I have made it this far.
One last thought, I have given up on finding a therapist because
it is very true, that only victims of a sociopath understand how
they work, although counseling could offer the tools to put it
all together, yet I think I know better than anyone how to get
through this. I will continue to keep you updated.
I am learning that if I can reduce the anxiety which is the most
uncomfortable thing to live with, then I can focus on moving forward.
I found it helps to get rid of all memories, cards, emails, etc
and not to watch horrific movies that cram my mind with destructive thoughts. That has helped my thought patterns
and I also have been told to be thankful that at least he will
not practice medicine again, the rest is “icing on the cake” if
there are further charges. That has helped me through one
more day. I am working on figuring out the thought pattern
thing also.
I have met experts who did identify immediately that I was dealing with a sociopath ONCE I REVEALED THE DETAILS. I will not believe that they could determine it on their own, The sociopath was too happy, too charismatic, too confident, too good a liar for ANYONE to know better, not even professionals. THEY NEED THE BACKGROUND INFORMATION to see through the lies. I went into therapy while in the relationship because something was bothering me….I couldn’t figure it out. But I was being plagued by something I couldn’t put my finger on. I wanted to get out of the relationship but I couldn’t make myself do it. I felt that I would lose something. Once I uncovered the first big betrayal, my sociopath begged me to give him another chance so I asked him to go with me to the therapist, which he did. Armed with the knowledge of what the sociopath did, and after talking to him , the therapist told me to get away from him. That he was very dangerous to me emotionally and potentially physically dangerous. After the next big betrayal, or rather, discovery that the betrayal and lies were ongoing, I took the sociopath to a therapist, and told him what I uncovered. He spoke to him and the responses were very revealing. He said he did the things he did that were wrong and bad because he was bored. To understand why that answer is so revealing, is to understand a sociopathic personality. Anything goes, to quell boredom. But I still couldn’t release myself from that relationship. It was a magnetic kind ofpull, that I had no power over. It had complete power over me.
Thank you for sharing. I was completely taken in by a sociopath over a year ago. I had never met anyone who was so attentive, charming, complimentary, good looking… oh, the list goes on. I felt I had not only met Mr. Right, but Mr.Perfect. This was a very cultured and well educated man. Unlike the stereotypical sociopath, he holds a good job -can even be considered a “captain of industry”. We live in different cities, so it was even easier for him to fool me. He would call me 2-3 times a day – send text messages, write e-mails. I wondered sometimes how he got the time to do all this. But it was almost impossible for ME to get him on the phone. He said he was at a meeting, at a business dinner etc.
He also seemed to not have many good friends. But all the people he mentioned were women – some one who went to the symphony with him – and had for a long time, someone who was a biking partner etc. He said his friendships with these people were built around common interests, which I thought was fair enough.
After 6 months and visits back and forth, his romantic speil was not as effusive, which I thought normal. But I also began noticing a lot of inconsistencies and lies. I caught him out on a lie about where he was – he said he was in one city on work and it turned out that he was in another on vacation – and I knew it had to be with another woman!
Anyway, i expressed my distrust and he accused me of being suspicious for no reason. He said I had a mental illness and should have my head examined. I got so blisteringly angry when he said this that I told him that I would prove to him that my suspicions were warranted.
I embarked on a detective spree and uncovered 4 women who he was courting the same way. One was the official girlfriend in the city where he lived. The others were mistress-type girlfriends. I spoke with all of them. And then I presented him with the evidence. He did not have much to say other than that he had “done everything for me, shown me a good time, bought me gifts…” and did not know why I was upset. I know now that there are others. It is like he needs to get all the women he meets to fall in love with him.
I asked him not to contact me again, but he kept e-mailing, sending cards, photos, saying “Ilove you, I miss you” It took a lot of courage to hold my ground, because I missed him too. I had to remind myself on a daily basis that I did not want to be in a relationship that had no substance. Luckily, the distance helped and also the support of my cousin and my friends. Finally, the calls petered off, although I did get birthday greetings from him recently, in which he called me his one true love, his Jane.
As for the other women, they are still with him. He takes his women to nice restaurants and on extravagant holidays, but I don’t think this is the reason they stay with him. They love him to distraction. In fact one of the mistress-type girlfriends has been trying to get rid of the official girlfriend for a long time, even though he has been with the Girlfriend for nearly 7 years .
I tried to talk sense into these women, suggesting we form a support group, help each other… But after a point realized they had to figure their lives out for themselves. Luckily, I escaped, but not unharmed. I find it very difficult to trust men. But I am whole and did not give him time to grind me down.
Jane
I believe as sociopaths become older and they realize they are human and are aging like the rest of us, they become more dangerous and cling harder to their victims. They realize their best years are behind them and they really don’t have much to show on an emotional level.
I have been involved with 2 sociopaths and am in my mid- 40’s. I have just started dating again and I have decided that dating at my age is somewhat of a dangerous scenario. To combat this ,I now see myself as a Female Warrior against sociopaths. I have decidedly taken my power back. For example, if I’m dating someone and ask them if they are done with their past relationships and they say, “oh, yes, I’m through” and then later in the conversation they say ” Well I’m still friends with my ex girlfriend and I still call here”. I see the Red Flags now! In a perfect world that would be great, to beable to stay buddies with an ex, but 9 times out of10 it’s more than that.
I no longer feel guilt for not believing them.!! I totally trust my gut feelings and don’t try to talk myself out of them, where I use to not listen. My gut level feelings, looking back, have always been right, but I didn’t trust them. If I had, it would have saved me a world of pain and heartache. I might be alone for along time and frankly at this point, I honestly welcome that if it keeps me safe from the sociopathic preditors and their horrific destruction. I know I can’t afford emotionally to go through another situation with these mentally ill people.
My advice is listen very, very closely to everything they say!!! I can’t stress this enough, really listen like you’ve never listened before. Look for things that don’t make sense…” I’m done with that relationship”….then later in conversation…” I call my ex, because we are still good friends”. Inconsistencies are a major Red Flag.
I used to have a very rosie view of the world and the people in it until my life was shattered by the sociopath I met 2 years ago. Everything I have read on this site is like a page from my life. He not only destroyed me emotionally and financially, but my relationship with everyone (family & friends) are forever changed. I lost all my credibility. Those that looked up to me the most now wonder who I am. This is a much tougher road of recovery than my divorce from my husband of 22 years. The humilation and distrust that I feel are more than I can bare on some days. You question yourself, your ability to be a judge of character.
I was a strong independant woman, a home paid for, no debt, until this monster charmed his way into my life. He took my secure retirement and destroyed it. I’m 52 years old I will never recover the financial disater he created for me.
I must say that I am a fighter though and he will not win this time! Along with all of his sociopath problems, he is an alchohlic, and physically abusive. I look at the fact that he broke my nose as a blessing, it allowed me to call the police and have him arrested. I am now in the midst of a nasty divorce from him as well as testifying against him for a felony. My therapist has told me that (the only reason that I can afford therapy is that there is a non profit group “Violence Witness Agency” paying for it) that no matter what happens to him, it should have no impact on my recovery, because as most victims experience that whatever the courts decide will happen to him will never be enough. I cannot base my recovery on him or what happens to him.
I am not a particuliarly religious person, but I would have to say that this type of person must be as close to “the devil” as any human could be.
Recovery will be a long slow process for me, my family and my friends. You do truly find out who your “real” friends are when something like this happens to you.
It seems like a lot of the same women write on these blogs,
I took my ex to a religious woman counselor, he conned her same as he conned me, she advised me to be more patient with him, until he started bouncing checks written to her, the therapist, too. Then she told me to dump him because he was a ‘go nowhere’ man.
Later we went to a psychiatrist, a man md with 30 years experience, my ex had a harder time charming the male psychiatrist who pronounced, after a 2 and 1/2 hour session with my ex and I, that my ex was incurable and could never be helped simply because my ex thought it was okay to lie, rob, and hurt others and he thought there was nothing wrong with himself for being that way. The psychiatrist told me not once in his 30 years of practice could he help or correct men like my ex. The md offered to help me break up with my ex and I accepted the help, thankfully. It scared me to watch my ex con the woman therapist with all his charm and his crocodile tears and his flowery words and lies. A devil or devils from hell lived in my ex, to this day I believe he was possessed by the jezebel spirit of lust (his charm and charisma) and a few other spirits of greed and violence. I never want to meet anyone that sick, deceptive or destructive again. They are possessed by devils from hell.