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ASK DR. LEEDOM: Why has my husband cut our daughters out of his life?

This week we received the following letter from a reader of the blog. I wanted to share both the letter and my reaction to it with you:

After 30 yrs of marriage and abuse, I have finally left my passive
aggressive sociopathic narcissist husband. I have managed the No Contact fairly well, of course he is the KING of the silent treatment so it doesn’t seem to bother him.

What I simply do not understand is this: We have two daughters, ages 22 and 24. We USED to have a close family, the girls were close to their dad. However after they have witnessed him abusing me, they have had a few ‘spats’ with him lately.

What completely baffles me, is that when I started the No Contact about 2 1/2 months ago, he completely stopped talking to our daughters. He hit me, and they were both angry at him, and they all argued via email and cell phones, since they live far away from us. After they got angry with him for hitting me, he cut all communication off with them. They do not call him or email him either, because they are angry and do not want to ‘beg him for his love,’ so they are all at a complete standoff.

I do not understand why he will not pursue contact of any kind. Our oldest daughter is married and having our first grandchild in a few months. She is angry at her father and yet broken hearted. She wonders if he ever thinks of her, of her pregnancy, if he cares? I don’t understand why he will not contact them, other than he is angry at them for ‘taking my side’ after he hit me, or he is a coward; afraid of how they will react to him. He used to be extremely close to them, but the older they got, the further apart they all drifted.

Both of our daughters are very strong ladies, but are not disrespectful to him. I would like to know what he is thinking or doing? Why has he cut his daughters out of his life?

Reaction 1

I wanted to entitle my next book “Stop Being Baffled” but Donna didn’t like that title so it is now Driven to Do Evil. Here is a quote from the Chapter 1:

”¦nevertheless, the (sociopath’s) behavior has baffled us because we have misunderstood the main purpose of his behavior.
Ben Bursten, M.D. The Manipulative Personality, 1971

Just what is the purpose of a sociopath’s behavior toward others? It usually boils down to either power or sex or some combination of the two.

The reason we are baffled by sociopaths is that it is hard to comprehend an inner world where the love motive does not exist. It is also hard to understand that sociopaths lack the love motive because they seem to enjoy intimacy and affection to a certain degree. It is just this enjoyment is not connected to any deep obligation to take care of another person.

So stop being baffled. He moved on because there was no real reason to interact with his daughters because they stopped being a source of power reward (also called narcissistic supply).

When you interact with a sociopath it is important to always keep in mind that he/she does not possess a love motive. By love motive I mean any need to maintain a relationship where care is given to another person independent of what is gotten in return. Sociopaths will sometimes give care when there is something in it for them.

Reaction 2

We have to educate everyone in our society about what the love and power motives are. We have to teach everyone that love means caretaking and giving, and that there are some in our families who are NOT capable of love.

Just like it is unreasonable to expect a blind person to drive a car, because he/she cannot see the road, it is unreasonable to expect a sociopath to parent.

Parenting means taking care of another person and maintaining a connection out of the joy of loving and giving. A person who cannot love has no joy in giving and so cannot parent. It is that simple.

Reaction 3

Perhaps your adult daughters would be willing to write and talk about what it feels like to have a sociopath as a parent. We need to collect these statements and use them to change our society.

Reaction 4

This disorder is familial and also related to alcoholism/addiction and ADHD. Please consider reading my book, Just Like His Father? to help you think about the needs of your grandchild.


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92 Comments on "ASK DR. LEEDOM: Why has my husband cut our daughters out of his life?"

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Dr. Leedmon, Thank you so much for posting my question! Your answers fit very well to the situation and answer many of my questions.
I do not think he is capable of ‘giving’ or ‘loving’. This situation just breaks my heart into pieces; our daughters are SUCH good girls, they NEVER caused us trouble, they are trustworthy, moral, compassionate, smart young ladies. HE is the one who acted like a rebellious adolescent, not them!
Here is the real kicker: He seems to think that our daughters should call him!! Back when I asked him why he had been nasty to them, why hadn’t he contacted them, what had they done, he told me, “Well they don’t bother to call me either! They haven’t emailed me! So why should I call or email them?” I couldn’t believe it! He BLAMES constantly, nothing is EVER his fault. EVER! HE is the one who wrote nasty emails to them, then cut off communication, not the other way around. He ABUSED me, and they were very upset about this, but he even denies that he abused me! He blames ME for the abuse! (After this fight, in August, he told us that I had broken his NOSE and gave him two black eyes, strange, when I never even hit him. Then when we, my youngest daughter and I, saw him a couple of days after the fight, I asked him: “where is your broken nose? Where are your black eyes?” He lies so much that he just ignored me, blew off my questions. I had to go to the ER, I have xrays of a broken foot, scrapes, broken glasses, but he fails to acknowledge that! Just lies and says HE was injured! GEEZ.)
I just find this situation with our daughters so heartbreaking. When he devalued and discarded ME, that was one thing, but our daughters? It really hurt me, but I am beginning to understand. He just is not capable of giving or loving. It seems to have gotten much worse as he has aged. Is this common?
Someone told me once that the reason he was such a good father when our girls were young, was because they worshipped him, idolized him. Then when they got older, and formulated their own ideas and opinions, started having boyfriends and outside interests, he started distancing from them and seemed to lose interest in them. Like what you said in your ‘Reaction 1″: “He moved on because there was no real reason to interact with his daughters because they stopped being a source of power reward (also called narcissistic supply).” Unfortunately for them, they just LOVED their daddy, because he was so good with them when they were young, and they were all so close. Now, it makes it hurt all the more that he has cut them out of his life.
A part of me is having a VERY difficult time believing this, accepting that our daughters were his ‘narcissistic supply”. But I know it is true. I KNOW it is true! There can be no other explanation! I just cannot imagine NOT talking to my daughters, NOT loving them, having them in my life, and he has not talked to them in months! I cannot imagine ‘using’ them for supply! it is a BIG pill to swallow!
I have encouraged my daughters to read Lovefraud and to respond to this blog. I have learned SO much, learned that there are so many others out there like us, so many hurt people. They are both hesitant to ‘open up’ about this but I hope they do, so that they can find answers and healing like I have.

Dr. Leedom, Thank you for this response to ann….you are so accurate…..and we do need to hear from children of S’s…..it would create a very insightful informational eye opening from the unheard victims.

I was in tears last night as I went to bed and caught a glipse of a photograph of the young, beautiful child I birthed with a suspected Sociopath.
Sad thinking how wonderful a father he was in the early years. (This was when this photo was taken), and the question I now have the answer to….what went wrong?
The answer to that question is…..our son adored his father when he was a young child. Once the child developed a mind of his own, his father became combative and controlling for this adoring behaviors. The more his father controlled him, the further away his son got emotionally. Until it turned into outright abuse. Neither won…..the child could not be controlled and the father did not recieve the admiration and ‘respect’ he outright demanded.
You see, the child evolved in a healthy manner, he spoke his mind, he became questioning of authority, he was discovering he was an individual.
The father wanted a clone….an admirer….someone to relish his ego, become a duplicate of him, someone he could claim as HIS own production…..our son never complied. He didn’t enjoy the sports his father did, didn’t think the same way his father did, didn’t have the sams hobbies as his father…..He wasn’t a very good supply for the sociopath…..it created narcissistic injury to his father…
The child was no longer the ‘supply’, the father needed.
It’s been several years since the two have had contact……it’s a sad situation, one I never imagined would occur. But having a sick father, it’s best for the children this way. When these kids choose to remain in their emotionally/physically abusive parents life, it causes further damage and does not allow for healing to begin. (whether or not the abuse is directed to them at that point or not…..it soon will be, it’s all about supply)
As for us, our healing only began after we exited the immediate situation. We were able to see clearly and start the journey from hell.
As mothers…. with love, compassion and empathy….NO we would never have written our childrens stories to involve parentally precipitated pain.
This is why it is so hard to believe. But it is the reality we must accept. We did all we could to provide our children with a stable, loving environment…..we just couldn’t change the ‘other’ party.
It’s up to these kids to see what it is they are dealing with, just like any other person in the Sociopaths life. Some will continue to deny, some will jump ship and minimize the damage…..some will continue to enable and be in the fog and enable to Sociopath to wreak havoc on other family members…..until they see the smoke from the fire.
Being destroyed by a Sociopath, and having family in denial and enableing him to wreak further destruction of me….I say…..count your blessings he is ‘punishing’ them with his own No Contact!
It will hopefully, give your kids the space they need to educate themselves of the dangers a Sociopath .

I cried for the loss of inocence for my son. His father was horrible towards him as he grew into a teen…..name calling, setting him up with other people, he made him into a victim so he could be the rescuer…..the one who looked like the hero…..this is what people around us bought into…Oh, he loves his child………because it’s just so hard (as a normal thinker) to understand the concept of ‘supply’…..others being used as ‘supply’ as fulfillment of another persons inadequicies.
It’s just easier to remain in the dark and keep your eyes closed to the abuse going on around you!
Yes darling…….unfortunately, there are many, many more of us out here.
And until society chooses to recognize these disorders….there will be many, many more to walk in our shoes!

Ann, Erin

You are not alone…Ann the same thing has happened to our family. Loving father, daugther and son…until they grew up, and started having their own personalities and views . When they understood the abuses I was under, they became very angry towards the father… the abuses continued in disguise but the children were smart and they knew exactly what was going on…up to the point they begged me to separate because they could no longer see the abuses against me…..neither could I..but I knew that from the moment I separated from him he was going to use (to hurt) the children to get on to me…but I could never ever imagine that he was going to abandoned them…full stop.. He used to be our daugther’s soccer coach and they were so close and also our son as well. At the end of their College years I could not accept the humiliations anymore and very inteligently I managed to get out from the relationship. In return he discarded and abandoned us all. Even the daughter begged him to talk to her and to her brother. From the other side of the world he said.. “you guys are alone and you are suffering the pain of abandonment”. “I am happy and enjoying my life very much..”

How much cruel can a father be?..

Well that was enough for the children to become really strong and me as well. Together we stood strong and worked our way up. Today we are really well and still no contact…but after 8 years my son decided to find out what life has reserved for his father and managed to get his number and gave him a call… Well he is not well very sad, poor and this was reflected in his voice.. full of stories and blames..when he tried to blame me my son’s reply was.. “Dad don’t forget that I grew up in that household..mum has never done anything to you..if I am the man that I am today thanks to her …I have also changed my last name because your family name has done nothing for me’.

The father silenced and started crying…

A few months ago he sent an email to our son asking our son to buy something for him.. and just after that he sent another email wishing our son a happy birthday. After 8 years it was the first time he remembered the son’s birthday …why? well now he needed something from his son and possibly preparing to ask for money..

Our daugther can not even pronounce his name. She blocked his existence completed from her mind , maybe as a coping mechanism.

I could never understand how he could have done that…..but after my learning in Love Fraud things are becoming clear. I can now understand things which were senseless and beyond comphrehension.

You are not alone..it is very hurtfull and when I realised what he was doing I nearly broke down, but I could put myself together..

Today my son at 24 years old is a highly paid Executive in a Merchant Bank (very rare talent) and my daughter also graduated from Uni and very successful in her field. I resigned from my Public service career and openned up my own company and I am loving it.. Time will heall all wounds…I hope..

Once we understand their desease and their weaknesses as human beings, we cope better..

Love to you

There are problems and distortions with my thinking and perceptions.
I grew up in a very dysfunctional family, and my mother was such a Narcissist. I did not even know what a Narcissist WAS until a few years ago, when a cousin of mine mentioned that my mother was a narcissist, and I started to read everything I could get my hands on about Narcissism. I was aware that I grew up in an extremely painful environment; mainly I felt unloved by my parents and family; not just unloved but despised! It was so painful that my number one goal in raising my own children was this: My children will NEVER feel unloved. When I started reading about Narcissism, I could not stop-I finally discovered what the problems with my mother were -she was a Narcissist in every way.
My father was physically abusive, my mother put him up to beating us kids, brutally at times. The minute he hit the door after work she had a ‘list’ of our wrongdoings, and he would start in with my oldest brother first. However the emotional abuse that my parents, esp. my mother, inflicted on us was far worse to me than the physical abuse. I cannot even begin to describe it all. We all had nicknames: The Fat Ass, the Asshole, The Bitch (me) and the Prick. That is what we were called. All of my family, parents and brothers, were highly intelligent and everyone in the family is quite educated and is a professional of some sort; my brothers are physicians, dad was an anesthetist and my mom was a Medical Technologist who only worked for 1 yr of her life after attending 4 yrs of college and grad school. We were all overachievers. I knew they were all smart, they were very sharp witted and sarcastic, and I could not even begin to defend myself. Even into my late 40s, I have been unaware of all of the abuse that goes on with my family of origin. My kids were the ones who pointed out so many things to me, for instance my brothers are cruel to me, and I never even really noticed it till my kids pointed it out. They are selfish and rude, and my daughters pointed that out too. I guess I have become desensitized to it all.
When I read Dr. Leedom’s statement: “We have to teach everyone that love means caretaking and giving, and that there are some in our families who are NOT capable of love”, I thought “AMEN to THAT”.
It is no wonder that I married a Narcissist and an Abuser, it was comfortable and familiar. How did I end up being so compassionate, empathetic, sensitive? I feel sorry for nearly everyone, I feel so bad for ppl and all that they suffer. I have ended up getting screwed over and walked a good deal of my life, after befriending needy people. I end up in these situations where I give and give endlessly, to the point of exhaustion. Then when this ‘friend’ has sucked the life out of me, they dump me and move on.
I don’t understand why I don’t cope in a better way with all of this. It is not like it is all ‘new’ to me. Yet each time something happens, like abuse or infidelity or any number of things, I am shocked and outraged, full of disbelief and pain. I usually end up blaming myself, and I get very depressed and full of anxiety. I am baffled as to why I do not ‘roll with the punches’ better than I do. as I am certainly no stranger to all of this. Most people seem to be able to ‘move on’, while I get stuck in each incident, full of pain and disbelief.
At this point in time, I am just stifled with pain and disbelief. I don’t get it at all. I feel so bad for my kids. But EB you bring up a VERY good point: better to have no contact at all than to get stuck in the enabling of the Sociopath (which is what I did with my mother) and live in a fog and WORSE pain. The NC actually IS a blessing, and I SHOULD KNOW that! I have been there! I wish I could look at all this like you do EB. You sound empowered and very much a realistist, have made the best you can out of bad situation, and even though I have learned so much and know/understand much of it, I CANNOT SEEM TO APPLY IT TO MY OWN LIFE! It is frustrating me!
Sorry for writing an epic novel, and thanks for sharing EB! You make some VERY good and realistic points!

Thank you Brilhancy, for sharing your story, very sad story. I have never known anyone personally who had a husband/father abandon their family like this, so I have been full of ‘why me’ thoughts. Your story helps me realize I am not alone.
Just like your husband (ex), mine was a coach for both of our girls, playing baseball. They had so much fun.
You said that your ex called your son (to buy something for him no less) and that when the ex started blaming you, your son said “Dad don’t forget that I grew up in that household..mum has never done anything to you..if I am the man that I am today thanks to her ”I have also changed my last name because your family name has done nothing for me’.
The father silenced and started crying”
(this may be mean, and I am sorry, but I think it is FUNNY that your kids changed their laat names!)
Do you think he REALIZED he had done wrong?
Like your kids, my daughters BEGGED me to separate/divorce because they couldnt stomach him abusing ME anymore.
Thanks for posting your story! I am SO very sorry your kids had to endure all of that rejection and cruelty from their own DAD!

Wonderful article, Liane, as always!

Ann, growing up in such a family, and then continuing the chain of pain is more usual than unusual I think. I am glad that you are cutting the links to that painful past. God bless and speed your recovery! ((((hugs)))

Ann, Brilliancy:
Ditto for me too….
Kids begged me, planned for it, presented me with a new ‘game plan’…..to leave him for years…I couldn’t understand it and discounted how important this was to them.
Kids asked if they could also change their name, he abandoned them, his family abandoned them……Although I am not proud of my parents ,in the least for going along with him, and hurting our children…I will not return to my maiden name…..I am waiting until they are 18….then we will PICK a name together be whoever……
The funny think about this is…..the ex is very, very vocal about me not changing my name back to maiden RIGHT AWAY…..so when we do pick a name…..he will be blown away that we all will be changing it.
Again…..his viewpoint is…..they are mine, all mine….and see they have MY name….they can’t change that!

the ex was also the…..’involved coach’….another appearance thing…..this is something he still spouts….I love my kids….I was the COACH!
Yes, but you only used your children as the pawns to your appearance!

Ann…..you are rolling with the punches…..you are walking through the pain….you are doing the right things…..it hurts…it doesn’t feel good, but what your feeling doesn’t last…..if you continue to process this pain…….
We all question ourselves, we all doubt ourselves……
over time and through your own awareness you will come to trust in what you lived.
We are programmed as children with the parents we had/have…I know I was…..keep helping, keep giving the last of your food and all will come back around………..
NOT SO…..
You have to be able to have charity to give charity.
We don’t have to give the shirt off our backs…..for some reason this has become this admirable feat……IT”S NOT…it’s stupidity!
Your a good person, trying to find balance in your thinking, your actions and such.
Don’t be too hard on yourself….it’s not YOU, don’t take it personally……
The whole design of this disorder is to make doubt!
AND NO……he didn’t realize he did wrong…..they never do….they cry tears other than we do….other than why real feeling persons do……..

I am prepared for the end of the restraining orders…..and him showing back up again……
Oh, no there won’t be any heartfelt apologies, no lessons learned, no miles and miles of counseling, no changed man…….there will be more blaming, pain and shame…….
We have educated ourselves and grown…..he never will!

Liane, thanks for stating the obvious – sometimes I need a reminder: By love motive I mean any need to maintain a relationship where care is given to another person independent of what is gotten in return. Sociopaths will sometimes give care when there is something in it for them.
I’m always the one with the love motive but the other person turns out to have ulterior motives. I will be more vigilent from now on.

Reading about how perplexed people feel over the sudden change in behavior of their P’s when the N-supplies stop giving supply, made me realize that I lucked out.

In my situation, my xP was so nice for a few years and I thought that the bad parts were just him being inconsiderate and thoughtless. At the end of 25 years, he was vicious. But even still, I would have chalked it up to a change of heart if it weren’t for the fact that my dad overheard him tell someone that he was only with me for my money. Of course it took my P-dad 25 YEARS to mention it to me. Still, I feel lucky that I have conclusive proof, that there was no “change of heart”. He never had a heart at all. There was a change in behavior when it no longer benefited him to be nice, but there was no point in time when he actually WAS nice.

Dr. Leedom,

Thank you for this article. The timing of it makes me wonder if it is divinely inspired.

In March of this year, my ex took me back to court crying “Parental Alienation Syndrom.” The truth is, he didn’t even attempt to excercise his parental rights to visitation. He would set the kids up, then cancel. Or, he would lie about the kid’s behavior, which upset them. They expected an apology and admission of his lies, before they would spend time with him, again. In stead, he took me back to court.

At the end of July, the Judge determined our oldest daughter, together, was old enough to make up her own mind (15). She no longer was court ordered to go with him. I told my attorney, “Watch. Now that he cannot use her to theaten me, he will “target” her. His motive will be to get her to refuse to go when he has the other kids. This way, she will no longer be a witness to his manipulative, brainwashing, intimidating behavior. Within a month, my ex was setting the siblings against each other, saying to our 15 year old daughter, “WE have more FUN, when YOU are NOT HERE. I don’t want you to come with us. Why don’t you stay home? We (implying the other two kids) like it better when you don’t come with us.” (which is not true. The two younger kids refuse to go with him, alone, without their older sister.)

She was no longer useful to him. All his carrying on about how much he loves his children, misses them, and is heart broken over not participating in their lives, and as soon as the court releases his grip on legal control, his true intentions are revealed. In response, my attorney said, “Wow! You really called that one.” Sadly, it is predictable.

So much of what I read in here blows me away with how text book their behavior is. Except for changing the names, the stories all have the same threads of truth. I’m really surprised that the affects of this type of personality disorder is not more widely known, as it seems the commonality of the motives, deception, and devistating effects left in the wake of their distructive influence is marked by very clear patterns of behavior.

An another note, can anyone help me? I’ve read some articles, and posted comments. When I come back, I don’t remember which articles I posted the comments on, is there any way to check where previous comments/questions were posted?

Isabell, I have the exact same problem about which ‘which article did I post one”? I keep wondering if there is a ‘feed’ or something where we can find the most recent articles first, so we can find our own! However I have not found anything like this so far. Does anyone know?
It is amazing that you are so well in sync with the behavior of an “S” that you could predict it like that! I feel like a fool most of the time, because I forget that he is not ‘normal’ and doesn’t think with compassion and empathy like regular people, esp regarding our children. I keep forgetting he doesn’t care, so when he acts this way, I am shocked and befuddled all over again.
I am sorry to have to read all of these stories about how these people treat their children. I always felt like it was an ‘instinct’ to protect and care for our children but it is obviously not.

Ann,

Believe me, up until this past year, I would be “shocked and befuddled all over again,” too. There was a part of me that kept hoping I’d wake up, and the insanity would be a dream. Or, at the very least, I hoped that he’d get over his anger, and realize I wasn’t fighting him. Either way, the quiet periods in between ordeals, sprinkled with his (S)weeter self, it was easy for him to throw me off. I took the bate, everytime.

What changed? Hmmmm…. I noticed I would have random panic attacks. There would be a feeling of impending doom. I read back through my journals and realized that he would often act out, in some way, on an anniversary date of significance. Or, right after a period where we were actually able to laugh about the kids, together, he was working on pulling the carpet out from under me. Whenever there was a boundairy set, he’d act out. By acting out, I mean he’d pull me back into court, or there would be a new rumore about me spreading like wild-fire. I would be so shocked, “What? What did I do?” As if I had to do anything to bring on his attacks. EVERYTHING they do is about getting a reaction – “Supply.” And, for my ex, he divides people. I drew out a diagram of all the relationships he had been in conflict with, and the other player in that conflict. There were some 26 triangulations in his family system, alone. He whispers to the insecurity of the unsuspecting, insinuates a potential threat, or judgement by another, then through inuendo, a cleaverly plants seed of doubt. Immediately, people form opinions, feel offended, judged, angry, mistrustful, suspicious, of the other. Their behavior changes as a result, and this confirms what he’s told, both sides. As long as he keeps his players apart, the threat of comparing notes is minimized. He never attacks in daylight. He’s moves are always ambient, subtle, stealth, much like a sniper.

He did not cry when his grandmother died, whom he had lunch with every Wednesday his entire adult life. In stead, he called me and said they changed the time of the funeral (due to some plausible excuse). I believed him. And, because I believed him, he caused me to miss the funeral all together, the time had, in fact, not changed. This gave him a perfect opportunity to discredit my character to the family. He did not cry when his younger brother died. In stead, he called me 20 minutes before the funeral was to begin, and told me our house was on fire, and because I didn’t give him a copy of the key, I was going to lose everything. I was 500 miles away. I responded, well, if the house is on fire, you’ll get in soon enough. He stirs up anxiety and fear. What was his motive? To cause me to be late for the funeral, in order to discredit my character to his family. I didn’t unerstand this then, I was shocked and befuddled.

His youngest sister kept lecturing me, “Why do you keep thinking he’s normal? He’s NOT normal.” When he permenantly tarnished the character of his own children in the eyes of the grandparents, the I realized….He’s NOT normal.

When I finally wrapped my mind around this reality, it became easy to predict his behavior; at least, in general.

Mine is Mr Nice Guy and EVERYONE likes him. All except those who have lived with him. He is the epitome of sneaky and sly. YOURS sounds like a blatant nightmare, causing you to miss funerals? My goodness. That is underhanded.
The gossip and slander have been hard on me. I had three brothers and they never did the back stabbing thing; I always thought that was a ‘woman’ trait but I found out differently. The gossip and slander have really been hard on me. His family thinks he is just great. I have been really slow on the uptake- he has been bitching and griping about me behind my back for years, and I was shocked to find out. The blaming was awful to endure also. We went to so many marriage counselors who just looked at me and said, right in front of him, “This man cannot take responsibility for his actions, lying, cheating, abuse. You have no choice but to divorce him”. Even priests told me to divorce him! And I did not believe any of them, I thought he would change, or maybe I was making too big a deal out of his behavior. His actions were so sly and sneaky, most of them were hard to put a finger on. His narcissistic behavior has gotten SO much worse in the last 10 yrs. Once he hit 40 or so, he started getting more and more immature and selfish. I wonder if this is common?
I wish I could learn, get things through my head more quickly. I keep thinking he will change. This blog on LF is helping face reality with that. They DON”T change. This last incident, with him cutting our daughters out of his life, has been the final nail in the coffin. When he treated ME badly, I could handle it. But he is treating two perfectly decent good and loving daughters terribly and they don’t deserve it. Narcissistic supply- I had my suspicions but Dr Leedom confirmed it.

Ann:
Keep reading……it’ll sink in……or at least you will start with the confirmation he is NOT a chance you are willing to take!
Remember the ‘healing’ evolution……it’ll progress.

Also….hold your head up high and walk tall…..continue to be yourself in your community and where he is slandering you…..TRUST me….if you do this……you will be vindicated and HE WILL BE EXPOSED by his own behaviors……and cheap talk about you.
I remember when I couldn’t go any where without someone looking at me through one eye…….like hmmmmm.
By this summer, people were pulling me aside, feeling bad they judged me and listened to his crap…..I heard the same story over and over…..EB, you know…..you sure seem like the same woman we have known for the past 20 years…..Do you know what he told us about you? I responded with…..yes, funny how ‘crazy’ I became when i discovered he was a big time drug dealer…..
The divorce decree spoke volumes!
Ha farker!!!!

BTW…..a lot of them appear to be the ‘nicest guys on earth’…..this is the smooze …..Academy award times…
Remember….if hey were the assholes we NOW know…when we met….could they have captured us? Same goes for any and all relationships they encounter….on any level.

Ann: CoDependent No More, Too Good for her Own Good and People of the Lie. All good reads for someone with your background and coping behaviors…I know…I’ve been there and am just coming out on the other side after decades of therapy, two bad marriages (one N and on P) and no contact with Mom, Dad or Sis for 8 years!

Finally, I have a small but good group of friends and family I’ve created for myself. Finally, I’m not owning what’s not mine. Finally, I no longer take anti-anxiety drugs. Finally, I no longer jump when I hear loud noises and…FINALLY I CAN SAY “NO” WITHOUT FEELING GUILTY!!!

I think now, if I meet a prospective partner, they will be of a different caliber than that which I’ve attracted before. I’m holding out for nothing but! Either way, I’m finally comfortable being alone and reserving my love and energy for me and the people who are deserving!

Any parent that blows off a child has serious issues that are their own. No one can make someone be something they are not and forcing it can only delay and increase the amount of pain and disappointment on behalf of a child. Love, support and remind them that it’s not their fault. The rest will be their pain to hopefully grow from.

We all make our choices and have to live them! We all get our own crap to sift through and hopefully become stronger and more able people, as a result.

Live and love by example!

First of all – Ann – don’t don’t blame yourself. It takes courage to get away from a long marriage -and judging from the lies your husband is concocting – it will be a long, hard road. I was married 34 years…ten of which were spent trying to get a divorce. It took five years of meditation, research and therapy to come out on the other side of confusion, sadness and depression. Even now – after all this time – my ex is still thinking of ways to torture me. He is still dragging me to court. I have not spoken to him for three years – but, am still wondering what he will think of next.

Don’t listen to your husband…don’t talk to him…don’t tell him anything about your life. I know it’s tempting – but, try to do it “one day at a time”. Try to spend your energy on trying to figure out how to stay away from him. Your daughters are adults now and they will find a way to deal with their loss.

I realized that I was addicted to the interaction with my husband…with my two adult boys…with the process. No, I didn’t like the fighting or the pain…but, it was better than the silence. It was better than being all alone with an aging body and wondering how I am going to pay for an attorney. Intermittent kindness and affection was better than none.

Try not to forget what he has done to you. Write everything down. Save e-mails. Print everything out. Take photos. Have witnesses. If he tells you that you hurt him…don’t ask him where the bruises are. That’s what he wants. Any kind of response.

I have spent the better part of my life trying to make sense of the senseless and/or trying to explain my point of view to people who “didn’t get it”.

Understanding will come in small increments – epiphanies.

The other day I was watching the movie “No Country for Old Men.” I was never interested in it – even though it won Oscars. The movie changed my life.

I have read most everything about Sociopaths and Narcissists…lived with one for 30 years…but, for some reason – the villain in this movie portrayed “evil” so well – it hit me like a ton of bricks.

This person had absolutely no conscience. He didn’t care if people lived or died. He didn’t care about being injured. He was lacking any kind of human emotion.

Of course, our husband’s were not killers in that sense – but, they could have cared less if they killed our spirit, our children’s laughter or whether they destroyed their own happiness in the process.

Watch that movie – if you have not seen it. Or watch it again – if you have. People without a conscience don’t change to someone with a conscience. It is what it is. No amount of wishing and hoping is going to change him.

I hope you find the answers you are looking for.

I LOVE books, AND movies. Any suggestions are very much appreciated!!!!!! Also thanks for your stories and advice. I truly value it!!!

Gaslight…the original movie, 1944. I suggest watching it alone or with someone who knows what you’ve been through. As simple as the movie is, for someone who’s been gaslighted, it’s breathtaking…in a non-pleasant way. I wept through most of it…but it was validating.

Namaste

I haven’t read most of the posts but…

The p has seen our son 6 times since he left (6 months ago). He has seen my oldest son none and he was there 13 years out of the 16years of his life. He had promised him a car for his birthday, but that hasn’t happened. That was painful for my oldest but he is not surprised.

All these years that boy would beg to be taken to the drag strip but no we were always broke you see the p had to go to the station two and three times a day and charge $40 to $50 each time (i am not exaggerating, i wish i was) We never had time and the excuses go on and on. If I planned to take him and go anyway the p would start a huge fight, have us all crying and leave for a few days. It was awful.

Now… all 6 times he has taken my youngest to guess where, yes the drag strip … I have so many unspoken names for him.

I ask him why he never could take us before, when that boy always wanted to go…He said we couldn’t afford to … I’m sorry, he took the expensive family member with him,,,himself so what kind of answer was that? A p answer I guess.

Anyway, it’s an awful feeling on one hand but I’m grateful that he doesn’t take even more time to fake with our little boy. I’m so afraid that my youngest has began to forget how badly the p treated, not just me and my other boy, but him as well and how badly he wanted the p “to leave and never come back” I’m afraid he is getting taken in by the p that it was all my fault. What makes that so bad is that when the p ditches him it is going to hurt him so much.

Dr. Leedom and others, I wonder if you can tell me, what should I do in talking to my youngest son, that doesn’t seem to be parent alienation, that I can say and teach him that will help him remember or understand, so that he doesn’t grow to expected love and loyalty from a man that has never shown those things to anyone in his life?

Dearest heavenbound, How old is your youngest son? Ive been thinking about what you could say to him to try to explain why his dad acts and behaves the way he does. maybe you could say something like this?
“Darling, I know that Dad is sometimes mean to us,and unreliable, and seems not to care that you are upset. I think its because there may be something wrong with his brain. You know how you can build a car or a fort or something with lego, but if a piece is missing, it just collapses? Well, I think Dads brain may havea tiny piece missing, and that makes him do these things that seem so mean to us. When you see Dad the next time, dont mention this, but maybe it will help you try to understand him a bit better. You dont have that piece of your brain missing, neither do I,so we feel pain and happiness more than Dad does. Its like he cant help it. But its still OK to get sad and mad, but we can get sad and mad together, without him!” how does this sound? Good Luck, ! and Love and prayers, always, {{HUGS!!}}} Mama Gem.XXX

heavenbound,
What you might tell him depends alot on his age.
However I would offer advice that when you tell him is just as important as WHAt you might say.

Anything concerning our kids triggers emotions. Even if we are maintaining the cool, calm exterior. Inside we might be churning.
Once you decide what to tell him, then wait until you are having a really good day. That is when you tell him.

when your X returns him to you and you are triggered by what he has done…This is usually not the best time. Unless you feel a major crisis is at hand.

I think that “damage” control is important to do with your kids but there is such a fine line there, not to do more damage by saying the wrong thing. I hope you will get good advice for what to tell him.

heavenbound,
regardless of his age, if he’s a child he will have a hard time understanding that someone is EVIL. I was 43 before I could accept that. So lets call it something else.

Tell him that as a child, this is the time in his life when he will be learning how to tell the difference between right and wrong. Tell him that not all adults learned that difference when they were kids and now they act in evil ways. He has seen movies where the sinister bad guy acts evil, so you might want to wait until he has just finished watching something like that.

Explain that the bad people grow up and eventually learn the difference but since they didn’t learn those things as children, they don’t choose right over wrong all the time. These adults choose selfish behavior and sometimes just like to be mean to watch other people feel sad or angry. Then guide him on how to make decisions between right and wrong by thinking first about whether that decision makes him feel bad or confused and if the answer is no then he can ask himself if his decision hurts anyone else’s feelings. Last of all remind him that many times people, including adults will lie and pull a pity ploy. So he needs to be considerate of other people’s feelings but only if they are also being considerate of HIS feelings.

I wish I had had normal parents who had talked to me about this when I was young. But of course my parents wouldn’t have wanted to warn me because these were the tactics they were using to manipulate me. 🙁

I left out that you don’t have to mention his dad at all. Just warn him about P-behavior. Then use movies and tv to point out the P-behavior in the bad people. Hopefully he will eventually put it together that his dad acts just like the bad guys on tv. Ergo, his dad is a bad guy.

Has anyone seen “The Talented Mr. Ripley” Excellant study in both P’s and N’s, as well as being a very engaging story. Matt Damon does an excellant job of being diabolical, and so covert, pitiable, lovable. You’ve got to see it.

Yes! I saw that with the P a few years ago.
I can only imagine what he was thinking during that movie.
“Oh I’m more talented that that!”

The movie gave me the creeps.

Wow, thank you all so very much this has been eating at me. Mama Bear, he just turned 10, but I think these words are great and Skylar if I implement this with your advise I think I can do this. You guys are great. Witsend I have worried about when is the right time as well and your advise is just what I needed, I couldn’t think clearly on it but you are right not when the p has triggered, a good mood day is perfect, I agree that saying the wrong thing can cause more damage and I don’t want to do that, so anything anyone has to offer is very appreciated, thank you witsend for that very wise advise!

I tried to talk to my boy a couple of times. When the p first left, my boys were not bothered at all they just worried about my feelings. I apologized to them for letting it go on for so long causing them to suffer and they said well at least it’s over! They apologized to me for the p being so mean to us all.

After his second visitation time going my youngest started coming home and being mean and hateful to us and rubbing it in our noses about what he got to do (drag strip and out to eat) rudely. The attitude towards us was what hurt. I had already read about abuse by proxy so I kinda knew that was some of it and that some of it was his feelings.

I got so hurt and upset for all three of us that I lost it after the third visit and told him, “I can not help it if they talk that way to others out there but we do not do that here, and it is not right to be mean to the ones that are there for you and always have been. I understand you have family out there but where have they been? not one visit, not one call in all these years. and now you want to trade us off?” I took it to far I’m afraid, I was still messed up from all the years of abuse and had just found out about p/s/n and ambient abuse and all so I wasn’t of a level thinking ability or I might have handled it better or been too afraid to say anything I don’t know.

Anyway he followed me out of the room and walked out the front door mad, so I followed. Outside I told him, “i’m sorry son I did not mean to hurt your feelings or make you mad, maybe I shouldn’t have said everyting I said, however I will not have you coming in and being mean to us, we are not mean to you, we love you very much. I expect that we all be good to one another and that’s that.” He cried and said “that’s my problem I’m always mean.” Of course I told him “no you have not been bad to be mean but something is going on now”
He wouldn’t tell me anything except p was good to him

However the next time, he went and he seemed afraid to go back. Then he did and then seemed to come back with the “knowledge that the p loves him and I am a big screw up.” I sorta feel like he thinks he is the adult and I am to be taught good behavior. I know what this could mean so it does worry me except I do see love and caring in him too so God willing that will be ok. but that’s how what it’s been like since.

The p was so excited this weekend and the last visitation weekend that my son was too sick to go that I couldn’t help but begin to worry about my boy being let down now that the p has started showing signs that visitation is not as important to him as he had originally tried to play.

The thing is all these years the p would leave and not once call about him or try to visit or get him for visitation. Once he left and I tried to make him so he would just show up on his weekends, take him to his t-ball game and bring him home and leave.

But when he stayed with us he was poisoning all of us, we almost died. The doctors couldn’t find out what was wrong with me until one finally told my mom, she is shutting down if we don’t find out the problem she will be dead soon.

Once they got me fixed…

(although it was cause unknown… I got better because we moved back in with my mom and she and the docter were trying to care for me, with pain medicines and other meds which pushed the p back far enough for me to get better. I did research when I found something very strange in my kitchen, I found out what he was doing and I would have died within a couple of months if that long had it not stopped. It was too late for the docter to know what to test for or maybe he’d be in prison now. I will not tell what he did because of other p’s lurking around here sometimes,,, I don’t want to give them any ideas, it was uncommon, I’ve not even seen a movie with this one)

….I discovered my little boy was staying sick all the time and my older one was always looking like death warmed over and my moms health seemed to be going quickly. I then found that medicine and food was dangerous if he had been anywhere near it, which I’m sure so many of you discovered…I put a complete stop to him being in the medicine cabinet or the kitchen,,, stay away from the food.. that by the time I almost had them better, he decided he could not live with me anymore. And I now know that he was drugging me even after all of that…I had thought I felt, talked, and looked like I was high on pot alot of times, everyone else thought I was a closet pot smoker and or drinking. it took me a couple of weeks, I guess, to realize that my symptoms were withdrawals,,,then I found the pot he had hid in the house!

So sorry I’m so excited about the advice and feeling like I have direction and I wanted to share my experience. I’ve been slow to tell too much. I may have revealed too much and be recognizable, God help me , I pray I’m not recognized

heavenbound, how can he drug you with pot? You would know because it smells so much. That doesn’t make sense to me….

It really doesn’t me either , but then I did smell it sometimes, but I think it had something to do with the food and coffee. I did my best to keep him away from the kitchen but you know how they are. And maybe I’m wrong but I do know withdrawals and I do know in my soul he drugged me with something.

skylar,
Back in the day when I was in my 20s they used to make pot brownies and bring em to parties.
I didn’t like pot, so I never tried them. It’s a good thing that I KNEW what they were because I do LOVE chocolate!

I was told that you couldn’t taste or smell the pot but the brownies were a different texture.
But they for pretty potent. People were messed up after they ate them for sure.

I guess it really does make me sound stupid…sorry

heavenbound,
IDK, I think it very possible. “Cooked” pot is different than smoking it.

Those pot brownies I’m talking about were a big thing back in the day. and they had more potency than smoking it.

Heaven, I have no doubt he drugged you, since mine poisoned me. but he didn’t use drugs, I had my urine tested and my hair tested for drugs (hair shows drugs for years after usage) 5 drugs were tested and all came up negative. he was using something else. I was sick for 20 plus years, but as soon as I left him, I began to feel better. But my heart began to race and suddenly I dropped 1 lb /per day for almost a month. 20lbs total. Whatever was in my system started to come out and it’s still coming out. I feel better everyday.

My God, heavenbound,you poor thing!Its almost beyond belief what he did to you and your family, trying to poison you all! I cant get my head around why he is given ANY visitation rights AT ALL after trying to poison you all? Do you have any concrete proof at all of this? Doctors reports,blood work, anything? Can you afford a good lawyer, or maybe you qualify for free legal aid? You know the saying, “the squeaky wheel gets the most oil!” Bring out your hidden Psycopath, GET VERY MAD! Surely if you make enough noise, see your local member of council,etc, something will be done!! How do you know, if your ex P partner did this before, what is to stop him from doing it again? And thats not even counting him poisoning your sons mind!! GET MAD! GET EVEN!!can you also go see your local chamber magistrate, and tell him everything youve said here? That you strongly believe your ex tried to poison you and your kids, and that you are cared shitless hell do it again! Tell him you want him out of your sons life, PERIOD! Ten is a very impressionable age, he may be grooming him to be another P! There is a time to be quiet, and calm, and there is a time to KICK ASS!! No more Mrs Nice Guy!! Your mental, emotional, and physical health, and that of your precious son is on the line, you must FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!! as never before.This is RIGHTEOUS anger, and even Jesus Himself got angry when He threw the money changers out of the Temple.Just think, in 3 years your kid will be a teen, and it will get worse, he needs help now!!Show your last LF letter to the Magistrate, tell lhim you fear for your sons mental, emotional and physical health, and you want ALL visits stopped. Period.You must stand up tall, look the Magistrate straight in the eye, and DEMAND his help.You must do this . Just think of poor Lily, gaslighted, lied to, and abused for nealry 40 years, and now all her kids are Ps!!By the way, did you ever find any packets of ratsack {rat poison} in your house,when your P did the cooking? Its a slow poispn, but if its not too long ago, they can find forensic traces of it in fingernails and hair. It may not be too late to be tested for this. Anyway, good lluck, dearest heavenbound,BE STRONG and courageous! My love and prayers are with you. Love,{{HUGS}}Mama Bear gem.XX

Thank you witsend for that

Geminigirl,
i don’t have much of a chance of being believed, I have prayed every night, morning and several times throughout each day for the Lord to make him leave us alone and if not His will then to keep His boy ( he has claimed salvation ) safe from the devil trying to destroy him. I have no proof and I have only consulted one attorney and the attorney treated me like a mom trying to crowed the “daddy” out. As well as claim our agreement isn’t any good. The agreement says he agrees he is not to prepare any food provided to my son or give him any meds or he losses all parental rights. He also agreed to a very minimum amount of visitation (something the court is going to frown on) I hoped that by him signing, it would raise red flags as well as indicate that he knew he was not trusted to prepare food or meds and that he agreed it was not safe. I didn’t get much from the attorney indicating an openness to hear things I could not prove. I was hoping to keep talking with attorney’s until I found the right one.

I don’t know how I’m going to pay for a good one, I’m banking on the Lord providing that, I am willing to make sacrifices so I believe He’ll see that through.

I am very mad, if only you knew, I’m just trying to learn, I know so little.

Nothing is to stop him from doing it again, but the Lord.

I did get fighting mad and I honestly had no support system, I discovered I had no one fully believing how dangerous our situation is. My mom and brother suffer from fear caused by my dad. and those I tried to tell, made me out to be paranoid,,,no one seems to understand that some people will do anything just to entertain themselves.

It’s why I got to hanging around here and reading and made you guys my friends even before you knew about me.

I don’t know what a magistrate is? i’m crying because I have been in a whole so long I’m stupid.

I just had not wanted to tell you all how afraid I am and what happened because so many have not believed it.

And we are all afraid so who am I?

Will it really work to show my last post to this magistrate?

My soul has been screaming for help for so long…

I can’t see to type anymore. I’m so sorry
i don’t know what I’m doing

I’ve tried to keep my boys aware but i felt like i was lossing standing with my youngest

I’M SO LOST

Heavenbound,darling You are not alone, we on Lf all believe you, and Ive been through exactly the same fear and terror with not only my ex but my P daughter who tried to kill me by throwing an industrial strength red hot steam iron at my head. Luckily it missed or I wouldnt be here now. I BELIEVE YOU!!These P are sick and evil and when its your own child you block it out. thereason Im in so much pain now is that Ive blocked most of this out for over 25 years, just to get to see my 3 grandkids.Pray to Michael, the Head of the Hierarchy of Warrior angels. He will help you!I have a print of him and I can send it to you if you contact me via my home email. {Donna will give it to you if you ask her permission.} I love you and I believe you and Im here for you, so dry your eyes, hold your head up high!! If God was able to raise lazarus from the dead, he can surely help us!!Love and {{HUGS!!}} Mama gem.XXDarling your NOT lost, here you are!!

Also, ask god to “Turn the lights on,” and give you a strategy, and a battle plan. Love, Gem.

heavenbound,
YOUR doing GREAT. Take baby steps…This is all so overwhelming.

That is why you come here to vent….It is very hard for your friends or family to digest what your telling them. The reason they can’t digest it is because we only KNOW what we KNOW.

And if they never had any personal experience with a toxic person such as this than it is impossible for them to “get it” and fully comprehend it.

Heck we can’t even believe some of what they do and we LIVED it. The crazymaking behavior is very hard to articulate.

You DO know what you know….DON’T ever doubt yourself.
That is exactly what they try to do to us….Make us doubt ourselves.

They not only don’t live in reality they try to unravel your reality as well.

Yes, I think it could work, print it out, and take it to show your chamber magistrate. you may have to make an appointment to see him or her. gem.xxAsk your city council for info, or your citizens advice bureau.

Heaven:
No, you sound like a survivor! You are okay…..you will find a way….keep putting one foot in front of another and it will open up to you…..
Read all you can, write when you feel comfortable…..smile at the moon and think of all of us!!!!
Girl…..with a S, anything is possible!!!
Don’t ever doubt yourself, remain faithful…..you will evolve on this journey and look back one day!!!!
Your boys love you……you will also evolve with them…..
You won’t win all the battles, but the war will eventually be won by you…..
Arm yourself with ‘weapons’….of education and knowledge….empower yourself…and NEVER GIVE UP!!!!
XXOO
EB

I can’t help but be afraid and well.

Thank you so much witsend. I’ll do my best to remember…I do KNOW that I KNOW, I do KNOW

I’m not sure I’m doing great though,,,why can’t i get it together… my son is at stake and i want to protect him I just don’t know how to …

Mama Bear
I hear you and I am praying for those things

Thank you both so much, I need you … I know I’m not the only one here that needs others, I just wanted to tell you that.

Erin thank you

Please help me to stay straight with one foot in front of the other…

I love you guys!

witsend
I am so overwhelmed

I feel like my world is just spinning out of control and I can’t see for the dizziness

heavenbound,

Of course you are overwhelmed. It is alot to deal with.
Just being a single parent is a full time job, let alone having to deal with all of the rest.

Small baby steps. Listen to your gut, or instinct. Don’t question yourself on what happened. You know what you know. Always tell yourself that.

If you are not done with your court case with him document everything. (just for your own personal records)
Just remember when you go to court, just bring the documentation that is factual.

All the emotional blackmail and stuff he might pull on you, on an emotional level, best to not bring that into the courtroom.

Take one day at a time….Sometimes that helps when your overwhelmed.

Heaven:
Or one minute at a time….sometimes it gets to that!
There IS light at the end of the tunnel.
USE ALL THE DOCUMETATION like wits suggests!
Keep to only facts, turn off emotions when dealing with an attorney ….this is the hard part…..stick to the facts, and what you have documented……
Really….go back and read what others have written about court and the S’s…..it’s a chess game nad you have to have a strategy…….
I don’t know your timing….but if you got a bit of time…..take it and gather your strength…..getting angry helps with gaining stregnth…..
Once you hit anger….look out…..you’ll be a tiger……
This is how I turned into such a tiger…..I wasn’t always like this…..but I had to be!!!!!
I fought him and cancer and other illnesses…..If I CAN DO IT…..so can anyone!!!!!
Go get em girl…..
go look in the mirror and really see yourself….talk to that person in the mirror….get to know HER…..tell her what you feel, how you want to feel and make a plan with HER!!!!
You have to manage yourself like a business right now…..Sleep enough, eat well and excercise a bit…..take care of you…..and you’ll have the energy for battle……
REALLY……Heaven….If I can eat S balls for breakfast…..get that dang frying pan out girl…….you’ll be cooking his up very soon!!!!!!!

Wit, What can I document that will help…I mean I am documenting everything, but I don’t really see anything that will help…so what kinds of stuff can I expect to start showing in your opinion that will help.
For now we don’t communicate except visitation time and that’s short. Well the behaviors in my son might begin to say something

erin, I sure can’t wait for the tiger to kick in …it sure seems like one minute at a time…sometimes i don’t post because i’m so different from one minute to the next that i’m just going to contradict myself.

hevenbound,
Well anything out of the ordinary about visitation with the boys for one. Even lack of consistancy when they are concerned.

HOWEVER if he gets to the point where he isn’t seeing them at ALL, (or rarely) you might not want to use that against him. Because that would be a GOOD thing.

It would aslo be something to investigate if you could have a hair sample tested to see if he drugged you and your kids.
If it hasn’t been more than a year ago? THAT would make it possible for him to never see the kids again. If he drugged them to make them sick that would be serious, I would think.

How do I prove he did it even if I get results showing something, he will say he didn’t

Wit,
I just saw on the other thread that your going to bed…Goodnight and thank you so very much for your help. love hugs and prayers heavenbound

Wow, I started out with questions, got some answers, got excited, and then completely spiraled out of control didn’t I?

I’m so sorry for the drama, last night.

I still have a lot to learn I see. and I still have a lot of recovering to do as well. But my boys and I are fine, God will take care of us…He has everything in his control, always has and always will!
With Him i can do this!

I don’t know how it sounded to everyone about my mom and brother…They do know and believe. They just suffer a fear as I do from being trained not to stand up…We are overcoming.

I have calmed down this morning,,,One step at a time.

Thank you everyone for the advise and encouragement and prayers and love.

I hope everyone has a wonderful day
and
witsend I’ll be praying for you, yours, and your dog.

Dear Heavenbound,

Of course your emotions change every minute, every day, back and forth, up and down, that is what this does to us, but accept that about what is going on now, it is a phase of the anger/grief/fear/loss/hurt/anxiety/worry etc. and you will bounce around like a rubber ball. It is okay to post from position 1 and then an hour later post from position 7, LOL We have most of us been through just those things, and we don’t think you are crazy for contradicting yourself. It is all part of lthe process.

it is at least good that you recognize it, but when you are dealing with the lawyers, courts, and the ex you must at least APPEAR calm and collected and NOT respond in anger.

THINK before you respond to anything, take a deep breath when you are with the attorney or your x of wherever there is someone else around and ask yourself, WHAT ARE MY FEELINGS? Then answer that question, “I am angry” (or whatever is appropriate) and then say, inside yourself “I am angry, but I can control this FEELING and not let it make me do something I will regret later.” Use your POWER, it is there, we just have to remind ourselves we can be angry and still function.

Courage is NOT the lack of fear, it is being scared chitless and still doing what you have to do.

Be courageous, you can do it. I KNOW YOU CAN. Just say a little prayer for strength and wisdom and then feel that strength inside. ((((hugs)))) and my prayers for you!

OxDrover,
Thank you for your advice I will do my best! I sure do need all the encouragement I can get right now so thank you very very much for encouraging me as well!
Please do pray for me and my boys, we need them!

Guess What !!!!

I was telling my mom about joey buti ,oh, whatever, anyway I said ‘sociopath’ and my youngest wanted to know what that was. I told him and guess what he said….”that sounds like “p”. Can you believe it, all that worrying …I’m amazed…Just look how God works! Now if I can just follow through correctly…I just said “Oh?” he said “yeah” I told him there are quite a few people where p/s and that we had to learn how to recognize it and protect ourselves from the toxic behavior! I explained toxic and what that meant to us! He agreed that we needed to!!!!!!!!!!
My oldest already knows and understands more than I do probably!!!

I’m so relieved and I just can’t tell you how excited And grateful to God I am!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don’t think I can thank ALL OF YOU enough either!!!!!

This is such a big deal to me… I have been so worried and sick about how to get it all started without talking about his father and teetering on PAS

Pray I stay in God’s plan and don’t take it on my own!!!

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