This week we received the following letter from a reader of the blog. I wanted to share both the letter and my reaction to it with you:
After 30 yrs of marriage and abuse, I have finally left my passive
aggressive sociopathic narcissist husband. I have managed the No Contact fairly well, of course he is the KING of the silent treatment so it doesn’t seem to bother him.What I simply do not understand is this: We have two daughters, ages 22 and 24. We USED to have a close family, the girls were close to their dad. However after they have witnessed him abusing me, they have had a few ‘spats’ with him lately.
What completely baffles me, is that when I started the No Contact about 2 1/2 months ago, he completely stopped talking to our daughters. He hit me, and they were both angry at him, and they all argued via email and cell phones, since they live far away from us. After they got angry with him for hitting me, he cut all communication off with them. They do not call him or email him either, because they are angry and do not want to ‘beg him for his love,’ so they are all at a complete standoff.
I do not understand why he will not pursue contact of any kind. Our oldest daughter is married and having our first grandchild in a few months. She is angry at her father and yet broken hearted. She wonders if he ever thinks of her, of her pregnancy, if he cares? I don’t understand why he will not contact them, other than he is angry at them for ‘taking my side’ after he hit me, or he is a coward; afraid of how they will react to him. He used to be extremely close to them, but the older they got, the further apart they all drifted.
Both of our daughters are very strong ladies, but are not disrespectful to him. I would like to know what he is thinking or doing? Why has he cut his daughters out of his life?
Reaction 1
I wanted to entitle my next book “Stop Being Baffled” but Donna didn’t like that title so it is now Driven to Do Evil. Here is a quote from the Chapter 1:
”¦nevertheless, the (sociopath’s) behavior has baffled us because we have misunderstood the main purpose of his behavior.
Ben Bursten, M.D. The Manipulative Personality, 1971
Just what is the purpose of a sociopath’s behavior toward others? It usually boils down to either power or sex or some combination of the two.
The reason we are baffled by sociopaths is that it is hard to comprehend an inner world where the love motive does not exist. It is also hard to understand that sociopaths lack the love motive because they seem to enjoy intimacy and affection to a certain degree. It is just this enjoyment is not connected to any deep obligation to take care of another person.
So stop being baffled. He moved on because there was no real reason to interact with his daughters because they stopped being a source of power reward (also called narcissistic supply).
When you interact with a sociopath it is important to always keep in mind that he/she does not possess a love motive. By love motive I mean any need to maintain a relationship where care is given to another person independent of what is gotten in return. Sociopaths will sometimes give care when there is something in it for them.
Reaction 2
We have to educate everyone in our society about what the love and power motives are. We have to teach everyone that love means caretaking and giving, and that there are some in our families who are NOT capable of love.
Just like it is unreasonable to expect a blind person to drive a car, because he/she cannot see the road, it is unreasonable to expect a sociopath to parent.
Parenting means taking care of another person and maintaining a connection out of the joy of loving and giving. A person who cannot love has no joy in giving and so cannot parent. It is that simple.
Reaction 3
Perhaps your adult daughters would be willing to write and talk about what it feels like to have a sociopath as a parent. We need to collect these statements and use them to change our society.
Reaction 4
This disorder is familial and also related to alcoholism/addiction and ADHD. Please consider reading my book, Just Like His Father? to help you think about the needs of your grandchild.
Ann,
Believe me, up until this past year, I would be “shocked and befuddled all over again,” too. There was a part of me that kept hoping I’d wake up, and the insanity would be a dream. Or, at the very least, I hoped that he’d get over his anger, and realize I wasn’t fighting him. Either way, the quiet periods in between ordeals, sprinkled with his (S)weeter self, it was easy for him to throw me off. I took the bate, everytime.
What changed? Hmmmm…. I noticed I would have random panic attacks. There would be a feeling of impending doom. I read back through my journals and realized that he would often act out, in some way, on an anniversary date of significance. Or, right after a period where we were actually able to laugh about the kids, together, he was working on pulling the carpet out from under me. Whenever there was a boundairy set, he’d act out. By acting out, I mean he’d pull me back into court, or there would be a new rumore about me spreading like wild-fire. I would be so shocked, “What? What did I do?” As if I had to do anything to bring on his attacks. EVERYTHING they do is about getting a reaction – “Supply.” And, for my ex, he divides people. I drew out a diagram of all the relationships he had been in conflict with, and the other player in that conflict. There were some 26 triangulations in his family system, alone. He whispers to the insecurity of the unsuspecting, insinuates a potential threat, or judgement by another, then through inuendo, a cleaverly plants seed of doubt. Immediately, people form opinions, feel offended, judged, angry, mistrustful, suspicious, of the other. Their behavior changes as a result, and this confirms what he’s told, both sides. As long as he keeps his players apart, the threat of comparing notes is minimized. He never attacks in daylight. He’s moves are always ambient, subtle, stealth, much like a sniper.
He did not cry when his grandmother died, whom he had lunch with every Wednesday his entire adult life. In stead, he called me and said they changed the time of the funeral (due to some plausible excuse). I believed him. And, because I believed him, he caused me to miss the funeral all together, the time had, in fact, not changed. This gave him a perfect opportunity to discredit my character to the family. He did not cry when his younger brother died. In stead, he called me 20 minutes before the funeral was to begin, and told me our house was on fire, and because I didn’t give him a copy of the key, I was going to lose everything. I was 500 miles away. I responded, well, if the house is on fire, you’ll get in soon enough. He stirs up anxiety and fear. What was his motive? To cause me to be late for the funeral, in order to discredit my character to his family. I didn’t unerstand this then, I was shocked and befuddled.
His youngest sister kept lecturing me, “Why do you keep thinking he’s normal? He’s NOT normal.” When he permenantly tarnished the character of his own children in the eyes of the grandparents, the I realized….He’s NOT normal.
When I finally wrapped my mind around this reality, it became easy to predict his behavior; at least, in general.
Mine is Mr Nice Guy and EVERYONE likes him. All except those who have lived with him. He is the epitome of sneaky and sly. YOURS sounds like a blatant nightmare, causing you to miss funerals? My goodness. That is underhanded.
The gossip and slander have been hard on me. I had three brothers and they never did the back stabbing thing; I always thought that was a ‘woman’ trait but I found out differently. The gossip and slander have really been hard on me. His family thinks he is just great. I have been really slow on the uptake- he has been bitching and griping about me behind my back for years, and I was shocked to find out. The blaming was awful to endure also. We went to so many marriage counselors who just looked at me and said, right in front of him, “This man cannot take responsibility for his actions, lying, cheating, abuse. You have no choice but to divorce him”. Even priests told me to divorce him! And I did not believe any of them, I thought he would change, or maybe I was making too big a deal out of his behavior. His actions were so sly and sneaky, most of them were hard to put a finger on. His narcissistic behavior has gotten SO much worse in the last 10 yrs. Once he hit 40 or so, he started getting more and more immature and selfish. I wonder if this is common?
I wish I could learn, get things through my head more quickly. I keep thinking he will change. This blog on LF is helping face reality with that. They DON”T change. This last incident, with him cutting our daughters out of his life, has been the final nail in the coffin. When he treated ME badly, I could handle it. But he is treating two perfectly decent good and loving daughters terribly and they don’t deserve it. Narcissistic supply- I had my suspicions but Dr Leedom confirmed it.
Ann:
Keep reading……it’ll sink in……or at least you will start with the confirmation he is NOT a chance you are willing to take!
Remember the ‘healing’ evolution……it’ll progress.
Also….hold your head up high and walk tall…..continue to be yourself in your community and where he is slandering you…..TRUST me….if you do this……you will be vindicated and HE WILL BE EXPOSED by his own behaviors……and cheap talk about you.
I remember when I couldn’t go any where without someone looking at me through one eye…….like hmmmmm.
By this summer, people were pulling me aside, feeling bad they judged me and listened to his crap…..I heard the same story over and over…..EB, you know…..you sure seem like the same woman we have known for the past 20 years…..Do you know what he told us about you? I responded with…..yes, funny how ‘crazy’ I became when i discovered he was a big time drug dealer…..
The divorce decree spoke volumes!
Ha farker!!!!
BTW…..a lot of them appear to be the ‘nicest guys on earth’…..this is the smooze …..Academy award times…
Remember….if hey were the assholes we NOW know…when we met….could they have captured us? Same goes for any and all relationships they encounter….on any level.
Ann: CoDependent No More, Too Good for her Own Good and People of the Lie. All good reads for someone with your background and coping behaviors…I know…I’ve been there and am just coming out on the other side after decades of therapy, two bad marriages (one N and on P) and no contact with Mom, Dad or Sis for 8 years!
Finally, I have a small but good group of friends and family I’ve created for myself. Finally, I’m not owning what’s not mine. Finally, I no longer take anti-anxiety drugs. Finally, I no longer jump when I hear loud noises and…FINALLY I CAN SAY “NO” WITHOUT FEELING GUILTY!!!
I think now, if I meet a prospective partner, they will be of a different caliber than that which I’ve attracted before. I’m holding out for nothing but! Either way, I’m finally comfortable being alone and reserving my love and energy for me and the people who are deserving!
Any parent that blows off a child has serious issues that are their own. No one can make someone be something they are not and forcing it can only delay and increase the amount of pain and disappointment on behalf of a child. Love, support and remind them that it’s not their fault. The rest will be their pain to hopefully grow from.
We all make our choices and have to live them! We all get our own crap to sift through and hopefully become stronger and more able people, as a result.
Live and love by example!
First of all – Ann – don’t don’t blame yourself. It takes courage to get away from a long marriage -and judging from the lies your husband is concocting – it will be a long, hard road. I was married 34 years…ten of which were spent trying to get a divorce. It took five years of meditation, research and therapy to come out on the other side of confusion, sadness and depression. Even now – after all this time – my ex is still thinking of ways to torture me. He is still dragging me to court. I have not spoken to him for three years – but, am still wondering what he will think of next.
Don’t listen to your husband…don’t talk to him…don’t tell him anything about your life. I know it’s tempting – but, try to do it “one day at a time”. Try to spend your energy on trying to figure out how to stay away from him. Your daughters are adults now and they will find a way to deal with their loss.
I realized that I was addicted to the interaction with my husband…with my two adult boys…with the process. No, I didn’t like the fighting or the pain…but, it was better than the silence. It was better than being all alone with an aging body and wondering how I am going to pay for an attorney. Intermittent kindness and affection was better than none.
Try not to forget what he has done to you. Write everything down. Save e-mails. Print everything out. Take photos. Have witnesses. If he tells you that you hurt him…don’t ask him where the bruises are. That’s what he wants. Any kind of response.
I have spent the better part of my life trying to make sense of the senseless and/or trying to explain my point of view to people who “didn’t get it”.
Understanding will come in small increments – epiphanies.
The other day I was watching the movie “No Country for Old Men.” I was never interested in it – even though it won Oscars. The movie changed my life.
I have read most everything about Sociopaths and Narcissists…lived with one for 30 years…but, for some reason – the villain in this movie portrayed “evil” so well – it hit me like a ton of bricks.
This person had absolutely no conscience. He didn’t care if people lived or died. He didn’t care about being injured. He was lacking any kind of human emotion.
Of course, our husband’s were not killers in that sense – but, they could have cared less if they killed our spirit, our children’s laughter or whether they destroyed their own happiness in the process.
Watch that movie – if you have not seen it. Or watch it again – if you have. People without a conscience don’t change to someone with a conscience. It is what it is. No amount of wishing and hoping is going to change him.
I hope you find the answers you are looking for.
I LOVE books, AND movies. Any suggestions are very much appreciated!!!!!! Also thanks for your stories and advice. I truly value it!!!
Gaslight…the original movie, 1944. I suggest watching it alone or with someone who knows what you’ve been through. As simple as the movie is, for someone who’s been gaslighted, it’s breathtaking…in a non-pleasant way. I wept through most of it…but it was validating.
Namaste
I haven’t read most of the posts but…
The p has seen our son 6 times since he left (6 months ago). He has seen my oldest son none and he was there 13 years out of the 16years of his life. He had promised him a car for his birthday, but that hasn’t happened. That was painful for my oldest but he is not surprised.
All these years that boy would beg to be taken to the drag strip but no we were always broke you see the p had to go to the station two and three times a day and charge $40 to $50 each time (i am not exaggerating, i wish i was) We never had time and the excuses go on and on. If I planned to take him and go anyway the p would start a huge fight, have us all crying and leave for a few days. It was awful.
Now… all 6 times he has taken my youngest to guess where, yes the drag strip … I have so many unspoken names for him.
I ask him why he never could take us before, when that boy always wanted to go…He said we couldn’t afford to … I’m sorry, he took the expensive family member with him,,,himself so what kind of answer was that? A p answer I guess.
Anyway, it’s an awful feeling on one hand but I’m grateful that he doesn’t take even more time to fake with our little boy. I’m so afraid that my youngest has began to forget how badly the p treated, not just me and my other boy, but him as well and how badly he wanted the p “to leave and never come back” I’m afraid he is getting taken in by the p that it was all my fault. What makes that so bad is that when the p ditches him it is going to hurt him so much.
Dr. Leedom and others, I wonder if you can tell me, what should I do in talking to my youngest son, that doesn’t seem to be parent alienation, that I can say and teach him that will help him remember or understand, so that he doesn’t grow to expected love and loyalty from a man that has never shown those things to anyone in his life?
Dearest heavenbound, How old is your youngest son? Ive been thinking about what you could say to him to try to explain why his dad acts and behaves the way he does. maybe you could say something like this?
“Darling, I know that Dad is sometimes mean to us,and unreliable, and seems not to care that you are upset. I think its because there may be something wrong with his brain. You know how you can build a car or a fort or something with lego, but if a piece is missing, it just collapses? Well, I think Dads brain may havea tiny piece missing, and that makes him do these things that seem so mean to us. When you see Dad the next time, dont mention this, but maybe it will help you try to understand him a bit better. You dont have that piece of your brain missing, neither do I,so we feel pain and happiness more than Dad does. Its like he cant help it. But its still OK to get sad and mad, but we can get sad and mad together, without him!” how does this sound? Good Luck, ! and Love and prayers, always, {{HUGS!!}}} Mama Gem.XXX
heavenbound,
What you might tell him depends alot on his age.
However I would offer advice that when you tell him is just as important as WHAt you might say.
Anything concerning our kids triggers emotions. Even if we are maintaining the cool, calm exterior. Inside we might be churning.
Once you decide what to tell him, then wait until you are having a really good day. That is when you tell him.
when your X returns him to you and you are triggered by what he has done…This is usually not the best time. Unless you feel a major crisis is at hand.
I think that “damage” control is important to do with your kids but there is such a fine line there, not to do more damage by saying the wrong thing. I hope you will get good advice for what to tell him.