This week we received the following letter from a reader of the blog. I wanted to share both the letter and my reaction to it with you:
After 30 yrs of marriage and abuse, I have finally left my passive
aggressive sociopathic narcissist husband. I have managed the No Contact fairly well, of course he is the KING of the silent treatment so it doesn’t seem to bother him.What I simply do not understand is this: We have two daughters, ages 22 and 24. We USED to have a close family, the girls were close to their dad. However after they have witnessed him abusing me, they have had a few ‘spats’ with him lately.
What completely baffles me, is that when I started the No Contact about 2 1/2 months ago, he completely stopped talking to our daughters. He hit me, and they were both angry at him, and they all argued via email and cell phones, since they live far away from us. After they got angry with him for hitting me, he cut all communication off with them. They do not call him or email him either, because they are angry and do not want to ‘beg him for his love,’ so they are all at a complete standoff.
I do not understand why he will not pursue contact of any kind. Our oldest daughter is married and having our first grandchild in a few months. She is angry at her father and yet broken hearted. She wonders if he ever thinks of her, of her pregnancy, if he cares? I don’t understand why he will not contact them, other than he is angry at them for ‘taking my side’ after he hit me, or he is a coward; afraid of how they will react to him. He used to be extremely close to them, but the older they got, the further apart they all drifted.
Both of our daughters are very strong ladies, but are not disrespectful to him. I would like to know what he is thinking or doing? Why has he cut his daughters out of his life?
Reaction 1
I wanted to entitle my next book “Stop Being Baffled” but Donna didn’t like that title so it is now Driven to Do Evil. Here is a quote from the Chapter 1:
”¦nevertheless, the (sociopath’s) behavior has baffled us because we have misunderstood the main purpose of his behavior.
Ben Bursten, M.D. The Manipulative Personality, 1971
Just what is the purpose of a sociopath’s behavior toward others? It usually boils down to either power or sex or some combination of the two.
The reason we are baffled by sociopaths is that it is hard to comprehend an inner world where the love motive does not exist. It is also hard to understand that sociopaths lack the love motive because they seem to enjoy intimacy and affection to a certain degree. It is just this enjoyment is not connected to any deep obligation to take care of another person.
So stop being baffled. He moved on because there was no real reason to interact with his daughters because they stopped being a source of power reward (also called narcissistic supply).
When you interact with a sociopath it is important to always keep in mind that he/she does not possess a love motive. By love motive I mean any need to maintain a relationship where care is given to another person independent of what is gotten in return. Sociopaths will sometimes give care when there is something in it for them.
Reaction 2
We have to educate everyone in our society about what the love and power motives are. We have to teach everyone that love means caretaking and giving, and that there are some in our families who are NOT capable of love.
Just like it is unreasonable to expect a blind person to drive a car, because he/she cannot see the road, it is unreasonable to expect a sociopath to parent.
Parenting means taking care of another person and maintaining a connection out of the joy of loving and giving. A person who cannot love has no joy in giving and so cannot parent. It is that simple.
Reaction 3
Perhaps your adult daughters would be willing to write and talk about what it feels like to have a sociopath as a parent. We need to collect these statements and use them to change our society.
Reaction 4
This disorder is familial and also related to alcoholism/addiction and ADHD. Please consider reading my book, Just Like His Father? to help you think about the needs of your grandchild.
heavenbound,
regardless of his age, if he’s a child he will have a hard time understanding that someone is EVIL. I was 43 before I could accept that. So lets call it something else.
Tell him that as a child, this is the time in his life when he will be learning how to tell the difference between right and wrong. Tell him that not all adults learned that difference when they were kids and now they act in evil ways. He has seen movies where the sinister bad guy acts evil, so you might want to wait until he has just finished watching something like that.
Explain that the bad people grow up and eventually learn the difference but since they didn’t learn those things as children, they don’t choose right over wrong all the time. These adults choose selfish behavior and sometimes just like to be mean to watch other people feel sad or angry. Then guide him on how to make decisions between right and wrong by thinking first about whether that decision makes him feel bad or confused and if the answer is no then he can ask himself if his decision hurts anyone else’s feelings. Last of all remind him that many times people, including adults will lie and pull a pity ploy. So he needs to be considerate of other people’s feelings but only if they are also being considerate of HIS feelings.
I wish I had had normal parents who had talked to me about this when I was young. But of course my parents wouldn’t have wanted to warn me because these were the tactics they were using to manipulate me. 🙁
I left out that you don’t have to mention his dad at all. Just warn him about P-behavior. Then use movies and tv to point out the P-behavior in the bad people. Hopefully he will eventually put it together that his dad acts just like the bad guys on tv. Ergo, his dad is a bad guy.
Has anyone seen “The Talented Mr. Ripley” Excellant study in both P’s and N’s, as well as being a very engaging story. Matt Damon does an excellant job of being diabolical, and so covert, pitiable, lovable. You’ve got to see it.
Yes! I saw that with the P a few years ago.
I can only imagine what he was thinking during that movie.
“Oh I’m more talented that that!”
The movie gave me the creeps.
Wow, thank you all so very much this has been eating at me. Mama Bear, he just turned 10, but I think these words are great and Skylar if I implement this with your advise I think I can do this. You guys are great. Witsend I have worried about when is the right time as well and your advise is just what I needed, I couldn’t think clearly on it but you are right not when the p has triggered, a good mood day is perfect, I agree that saying the wrong thing can cause more damage and I don’t want to do that, so anything anyone has to offer is very appreciated, thank you witsend for that very wise advise!
I tried to talk to my boy a couple of times. When the p first left, my boys were not bothered at all they just worried about my feelings. I apologized to them for letting it go on for so long causing them to suffer and they said well at least it’s over! They apologized to me for the p being so mean to us all.
After his second visitation time going my youngest started coming home and being mean and hateful to us and rubbing it in our noses about what he got to do (drag strip and out to eat) rudely. The attitude towards us was what hurt. I had already read about abuse by proxy so I kinda knew that was some of it and that some of it was his feelings.
I got so hurt and upset for all three of us that I lost it after the third visit and told him, “I can not help it if they talk that way to others out there but we do not do that here, and it is not right to be mean to the ones that are there for you and always have been. I understand you have family out there but where have they been? not one visit, not one call in all these years. and now you want to trade us off?” I took it to far I’m afraid, I was still messed up from all the years of abuse and had just found out about p/s/n and ambient abuse and all so I wasn’t of a level thinking ability or I might have handled it better or been too afraid to say anything I don’t know.
Anyway he followed me out of the room and walked out the front door mad, so I followed. Outside I told him, “i’m sorry son I did not mean to hurt your feelings or make you mad, maybe I shouldn’t have said everyting I said, however I will not have you coming in and being mean to us, we are not mean to you, we love you very much. I expect that we all be good to one another and that’s that.” He cried and said “that’s my problem I’m always mean.” Of course I told him “no you have not been bad to be mean but something is going on now”
He wouldn’t tell me anything except p was good to him
However the next time, he went and he seemed afraid to go back. Then he did and then seemed to come back with the “knowledge that the p loves him and I am a big screw up.” I sorta feel like he thinks he is the adult and I am to be taught good behavior. I know what this could mean so it does worry me except I do see love and caring in him too so God willing that will be ok. but that’s how what it’s been like since.
The p was so excited this weekend and the last visitation weekend that my son was too sick to go that I couldn’t help but begin to worry about my boy being let down now that the p has started showing signs that visitation is not as important to him as he had originally tried to play.
The thing is all these years the p would leave and not once call about him or try to visit or get him for visitation. Once he left and I tried to make him so he would just show up on his weekends, take him to his t-ball game and bring him home and leave.
But when he stayed with us he was poisoning all of us, we almost died. The doctors couldn’t find out what was wrong with me until one finally told my mom, she is shutting down if we don’t find out the problem she will be dead soon.
Once they got me fixed…
(although it was cause unknown… I got better because we moved back in with my mom and she and the docter were trying to care for me, with pain medicines and other meds which pushed the p back far enough for me to get better. I did research when I found something very strange in my kitchen, I found out what he was doing and I would have died within a couple of months if that long had it not stopped. It was too late for the docter to know what to test for or maybe he’d be in prison now. I will not tell what he did because of other p’s lurking around here sometimes,,, I don’t want to give them any ideas, it was uncommon, I’ve not even seen a movie with this one)
….I discovered my little boy was staying sick all the time and my older one was always looking like death warmed over and my moms health seemed to be going quickly. I then found that medicine and food was dangerous if he had been anywhere near it, which I’m sure so many of you discovered…I put a complete stop to him being in the medicine cabinet or the kitchen,,, stay away from the food.. that by the time I almost had them better, he decided he could not live with me anymore. And I now know that he was drugging me even after all of that…I had thought I felt, talked, and looked like I was high on pot alot of times, everyone else thought I was a closet pot smoker and or drinking. it took me a couple of weeks, I guess, to realize that my symptoms were withdrawals,,,then I found the pot he had hid in the house!
So sorry I’m so excited about the advice and feeling like I have direction and I wanted to share my experience. I’ve been slow to tell too much. I may have revealed too much and be recognizable, God help me , I pray I’m not recognized
heavenbound, how can he drug you with pot? You would know because it smells so much. That doesn’t make sense to me….
It really doesn’t me either , but then I did smell it sometimes, but I think it had something to do with the food and coffee. I did my best to keep him away from the kitchen but you know how they are. And maybe I’m wrong but I do know withdrawals and I do know in my soul he drugged me with something.
skylar,
Back in the day when I was in my 20s they used to make pot brownies and bring em to parties.
I didn’t like pot, so I never tried them. It’s a good thing that I KNEW what they were because I do LOVE chocolate!
I was told that you couldn’t taste or smell the pot but the brownies were a different texture.
But they for pretty potent. People were messed up after they ate them for sure.
I guess it really does make me sound stupid…sorry
heavenbound,
IDK, I think it very possible. “Cooked” pot is different than smoking it.
Those pot brownies I’m talking about were a big thing back in the day. and they had more potency than smoking it.