This week we received the following letter from a reader of the blog. I wanted to share both the letter and my reaction to it with you:
After 30 yrs of marriage and abuse, I have finally left my passive
aggressive sociopathic narcissist husband. I have managed the No Contact fairly well, of course he is the KING of the silent treatment so it doesn’t seem to bother him.What I simply do not understand is this: We have two daughters, ages 22 and 24. We USED to have a close family, the girls were close to their dad. However after they have witnessed him abusing me, they have had a few ‘spats’ with him lately.
What completely baffles me, is that when I started the No Contact about 2 1/2 months ago, he completely stopped talking to our daughters. He hit me, and they were both angry at him, and they all argued via email and cell phones, since they live far away from us. After they got angry with him for hitting me, he cut all communication off with them. They do not call him or email him either, because they are angry and do not want to ‘beg him for his love,’ so they are all at a complete standoff.
I do not understand why he will not pursue contact of any kind. Our oldest daughter is married and having our first grandchild in a few months. She is angry at her father and yet broken hearted. She wonders if he ever thinks of her, of her pregnancy, if he cares? I don’t understand why he will not contact them, other than he is angry at them for ‘taking my side’ after he hit me, or he is a coward; afraid of how they will react to him. He used to be extremely close to them, but the older they got, the further apart they all drifted.
Both of our daughters are very strong ladies, but are not disrespectful to him. I would like to know what he is thinking or doing? Why has he cut his daughters out of his life?
Reaction 1
I wanted to entitle my next book “Stop Being Baffled” but Donna didn’t like that title so it is now Driven to Do Evil. Here is a quote from the Chapter 1:
”¦nevertheless, the (sociopath’s) behavior has baffled us because we have misunderstood the main purpose of his behavior.
Ben Bursten, M.D. The Manipulative Personality, 1971
Just what is the purpose of a sociopath’s behavior toward others? It usually boils down to either power or sex or some combination of the two.
The reason we are baffled by sociopaths is that it is hard to comprehend an inner world where the love motive does not exist. It is also hard to understand that sociopaths lack the love motive because they seem to enjoy intimacy and affection to a certain degree. It is just this enjoyment is not connected to any deep obligation to take care of another person.
So stop being baffled. He moved on because there was no real reason to interact with his daughters because they stopped being a source of power reward (also called narcissistic supply).
When you interact with a sociopath it is important to always keep in mind that he/she does not possess a love motive. By love motive I mean any need to maintain a relationship where care is given to another person independent of what is gotten in return. Sociopaths will sometimes give care when there is something in it for them.
Reaction 2
We have to educate everyone in our society about what the love and power motives are. We have to teach everyone that love means caretaking and giving, and that there are some in our families who are NOT capable of love.
Just like it is unreasonable to expect a blind person to drive a car, because he/she cannot see the road, it is unreasonable to expect a sociopath to parent.
Parenting means taking care of another person and maintaining a connection out of the joy of loving and giving. A person who cannot love has no joy in giving and so cannot parent. It is that simple.
Reaction 3
Perhaps your adult daughters would be willing to write and talk about what it feels like to have a sociopath as a parent. We need to collect these statements and use them to change our society.
Reaction 4
This disorder is familial and also related to alcoholism/addiction and ADHD. Please consider reading my book, Just Like His Father? to help you think about the needs of your grandchild.
heavenbound, WOW! God works in mysterious ways, that’s for sure! It is amazing what children notice and figure out on their own. I’m glad you can bring up the subject now and teach them about life and people (like you said, without making it about their father). You had the perfect calm reaction! You are in my prayers, please say a little prayer for me too! 😉
shabbychic,
Thank you! and you got it! I’ve already said one for you and I will continue to! Love, hugs, and prayers heavenbound
Heaven Who would of thunk Joey Butterbuttho – was the turd you needed to talk about to catch your son’s intuitiveness.. Is that a word? intuitiveness? Spaths reveal themselves to everyone sooner or later, even to those that love them..I am happy your son see’s it sooner – I was forty something before I saw through the mask of my mother…
Heaven:
I am sure MaryJo would be thrilled to know how her journey has affected you and been called upon to enlighten a child.
These are the reasons we need to continue to write books, tell our stories and expose these behaviors in our society….
I am estatic that your son made a connection…..this is what happens and we never know what will precipitate this event.
One Turd’s behaviors exposed another Turd…..for a child……HOW PRICELESS!!!!
Don’t tell Joey…..he may think there should be money or ‘royalties’ or fame in it for him!!!
No Joey…..your idiot behaviors just exposed another……
Heaven, your kids are on a great path……..it’s snowballing!
Dear Heaven,
There are news stories on the TV about Ps and there are happenings all over that you can use as conversation starters with your children.
Also, there are some great Bible stories, LIke Ahab’s wife is a classic P, and the way that Joseph had forgiven his brothers, but before he revealed himself to them he TESTED THEM to see if they were still the same CRUEL people they had been, but when he saw that they would sacrifice their own lives for Benjamin so that the would not make their father suffer again by the loss of the last “favorite son” that they had changed.
Also some of the old stories about parents in the Bible, like having “favorite” children, shows that some of the people were not the kinds of parents they should have been. Look at Eli and his sons.
Jesus and St. Paul both talked about how to deal with people who know the truth but behave sinfully and won’t quit their bad behavior—NC.
Jesus also told us to Know a tree by its FRUIT (behavior) so there are endless examples in the Bible that show how to deal with psychopaths, i.e. people whose hearts are hard and their intentions evil. Just as Jesus dealt with the Pharisees
I’m reading a book now on the Dead Sea Scrolls now and the information there on the in-fighting among the various sects of the Jews and the polliticians sounds almost like a modern day newspaper! Just the names of the parties are changed! LOL The “do-as-I-say” attitude, vs the “not-as-I-do” that is preached by many FAKE “religious” people who are Ps in a mask of holiness.
good morning,
Sometimes when you are young or, as in my situation, you were not raised to by good parents, you may not be able to judge what is good behavior and what isn’t very easily.
Also, the P’s will hide behind good behavior. That’s what makes them so confusing. They are soooo nice at first, and they treat you wo well. Then, when the mask begins to slip, you tend to judge them on the entirety of what you have seen rather than just one red-flag incidence. So you tend to want to forgive the bad behavior. A really smart, subtle P will load you up on good and admirable behavior before he starts the sublte attacks. By that time you don’t know what hit you.
So that’s going to be the hard part, teaching kids that the really, really bad people PRETEND to be good and PRETEND to love you.
I think that Jesus’ advice “you will know a tree by the fruit it bears” is not about watching for behavior. Behavior can be seen instantly, but fruit is borne over time. I think what He meant is that, if you look a the entirety of a P’s life you will see destruction in his wake. There will be lots of enemies, or past monetary losses, or a lack of a history, because they walk away and start over again so many times in their lives. The lack of any good fruit can be just as telling as the bad fruit.
Sky,
Your take on the “inspecting fruit” is another good aspect of it. Fruit IS borne over TIME, and if a person has a CONTINUAL bad crop, year after year, then the “tree” is bad.
I remember one parable where the Lord was talking about a farmer who had a tree that was giving bad fruit, and his servant came and said, “let’s give it one more chance, I will fertilize it and cultivate around it, and if it doesn’t give good fruit after that, we can then cut it down.” the master agreed.
Giving someone (in some cases) a second chance to shape up is a good thing, but if after that, there is no improvement, we should cut them down like a bad tree, i.e. NC.
I unfortunately kept on giving “second and last” chances 100 times! I had “malignant hope” TOXIC hope that I could effect an improved crop from a rotten tree—won’t happen.
Yes, learning that EVIL people do PRETEND to be good is a great many of the lessons in the Bible. Look at what Jesus said about the Pharisees, “they were like tombs”—beautiful and decorated on the OUTSIDE but ROTTEN withIN. They preached one thing but DID another, so their behavior didn’t match what they preached. There are so many good lessons in so many different places, the Bible, even in The Brothers Grimm, to use as examples of people who PRETEND TO BE GOOD but are looking for a chance to take advantage.
Teaching children (or even adults) CAUTION I think is a very important thing.
Here’s an interesting story about autism and asperger’s.
The new DSM is coming out and they are calling these disorders a spectrum. The main criteria is social awkwardness but often with a special gift or talent.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/health/03asperger.html?pagewanted=2&em
My xP is extremely gifted mechanically. It’s like he has a 6th sense when it comes to parts in motion. But he lacks in verbal skills, reading and writing and math. And also, of course, empathy for others.
I wonder if he doesn’t have a combination of asperger’s and narcissism. Would the narcissism override the “socially awkward” aspect of asperger’s? In other words, since he has no social skills based on empathy and the ability to understand emotion, perhaps he adapted the narcissism ability to “mirror” emotions in order to acquire, “social skills”.
The article mentions that people are basically classified by their most predominant symptom. This means that if they also happen to have an additional personality disorder, it would be ignored. It would be interesting to know if anyone has done any studies on autistic adults who were also abused or traumatized as children.
skylar, this is so interesting because for several years I have believed that the man I was with for 14 years was a narcissist with mild Aspergers… his brother has a son with Asperger’s / Autism (not a mild case for the boy, he talks but does not get along with others and is with a foster care family who wants him out… I still talk to the N’s sister) and I have wondered if it is passed thru the genes on the male side of the family, the N’s 2 brothers are losers as well.
Their father was very strict, always yelliing at them, even when they were adult men into their 40’s and 50’s. The N I was with also lacked verbal, reading, writing, math skills (and his brothers too).
The N was musically gifted but was not able to handle the business side of trying to get a gig, he would go into a club for open mike night and sit in a corner. We got to know people, but nobody close that we would socialize with.
He was also completly fixated on two sport activities that he loves, almost to the exclusion of anything else. Only time he really wanted to go out and do anything had to have one of the sporting activities as the end result (maybe the exception was a movie, or seeing his family).
He was a parasite. When he left me because I was of no benefit anymore his sister said “he’s always been a mooch”. Well, plus he was a liar and assh*le, why I was with him for 14 years is part of my own personal torment.
skylar, I would just like to say that over the past couple of months I have marveled at the knowledge and insight you have acquired in such a short period of time. On your suggestion I bought the book Why Is It Always About You? I just got it a couple of days ago, have to read it.
The book The Betrayal Bond I am having a hard time with, I don’t know if you’ve read it, it’s like I just want the author to tell me how to STOP recreating my trauma (whatever that is) without me havingn to go through all the exercises and filliing out questions, and basically having to think. Too intense for me, or just too much trouble? I thought… instead of doing all this work on myself, I just won’t date or look for a relationshit again, I don’t trust myself or men. I feel like I have no direction because I don’t want to look back, I just want to go forward, but there is no wind and the boat is just sitting in the water, I guess I’ll have to row, but I’m too tired & defeated.