This week we received the following letter from a reader of the blog. I wanted to share both the letter and my reaction to it with you:
After 30 yrs of marriage and abuse, I have finally left my passive
aggressive sociopathic narcissist husband. I have managed the No Contact fairly well, of course he is the KING of the silent treatment so it doesn’t seem to bother him.What I simply do not understand is this: We have two daughters, ages 22 and 24. We USED to have a close family, the girls were close to their dad. However after they have witnessed him abusing me, they have had a few ‘spats’ with him lately.
What completely baffles me, is that when I started the No Contact about 2 1/2 months ago, he completely stopped talking to our daughters. He hit me, and they were both angry at him, and they all argued via email and cell phones, since they live far away from us. After they got angry with him for hitting me, he cut all communication off with them. They do not call him or email him either, because they are angry and do not want to ‘beg him for his love,’ so they are all at a complete standoff.
I do not understand why he will not pursue contact of any kind. Our oldest daughter is married and having our first grandchild in a few months. She is angry at her father and yet broken hearted. She wonders if he ever thinks of her, of her pregnancy, if he cares? I don’t understand why he will not contact them, other than he is angry at them for ‘taking my side’ after he hit me, or he is a coward; afraid of how they will react to him. He used to be extremely close to them, but the older they got, the further apart they all drifted.
Both of our daughters are very strong ladies, but are not disrespectful to him. I would like to know what he is thinking or doing? Why has he cut his daughters out of his life?
Reaction 1
I wanted to entitle my next book “Stop Being Baffled” but Donna didn’t like that title so it is now Driven to Do Evil. Here is a quote from the Chapter 1:
”¦nevertheless, the (sociopath’s) behavior has baffled us because we have misunderstood the main purpose of his behavior.
Ben Bursten, M.D. The Manipulative Personality, 1971
Just what is the purpose of a sociopath’s behavior toward others? It usually boils down to either power or sex or some combination of the two.
The reason we are baffled by sociopaths is that it is hard to comprehend an inner world where the love motive does not exist. It is also hard to understand that sociopaths lack the love motive because they seem to enjoy intimacy and affection to a certain degree. It is just this enjoyment is not connected to any deep obligation to take care of another person.
So stop being baffled. He moved on because there was no real reason to interact with his daughters because they stopped being a source of power reward (also called narcissistic supply).
When you interact with a sociopath it is important to always keep in mind that he/she does not possess a love motive. By love motive I mean any need to maintain a relationship where care is given to another person independent of what is gotten in return. Sociopaths will sometimes give care when there is something in it for them.
Reaction 2
We have to educate everyone in our society about what the love and power motives are. We have to teach everyone that love means caretaking and giving, and that there are some in our families who are NOT capable of love.
Just like it is unreasonable to expect a blind person to drive a car, because he/she cannot see the road, it is unreasonable to expect a sociopath to parent.
Parenting means taking care of another person and maintaining a connection out of the joy of loving and giving. A person who cannot love has no joy in giving and so cannot parent. It is that simple.
Reaction 3
Perhaps your adult daughters would be willing to write and talk about what it feels like to have a sociopath as a parent. We need to collect these statements and use them to change our society.
Reaction 4
This disorder is familial and also related to alcoholism/addiction and ADHD. Please consider reading my book, Just Like His Father? to help you think about the needs of your grandchild.
jeez, for me, that was a lot of writing! I don’t write a lot because I don’t seem to have the creative writing talent that most of you have, and I have never been good at analyzing myself or others, I’m not introspective, I try to keep busy, or have the TV on so I don’t have to think about myself or others, but reading everyone’s experiences here at LF has helped me more than I can say because when someone has an epiphany about why they did something or why they accepted bad behaviors I can see myself in their posts and I understand myself a little bit better and can try to work on some of the problems I now recognize in myself. Plus I’m learning not to ignore red flags, or in my case, red billboards!!!!
SC, thanks, that is nice of you to say. That book really started me off in my understanding, I can’t give it enough credit.
Obviously, I feel that I’m almost as damaged as the P, only in a slightly different way. (my mother didn’t kill all my kittens by throwing them into a bag and into the river).
So I’m floundering in life and the biggest breakthrough I’ve experienced in 43 years was this epiphany of the existance of narcissism. Something that affects you so profoundly is going to get your attention and that’s what is happening to me. I’m focused 24/7 on resolving this, not for the xP, as much as resolving it for my own healing.
I feel like I’m looking for the unification theory of everything. You know like the way physicists are always looking for smaller and smaller particles to explain all the different forces in the universe.
I’m sure I’ll never find enlightenment, like the buddha, but I’d like to find something that will have as much power over me as the abuse my parents inflicted when I was a child. The window for directing my emotional growth with love, closed at puberty, so now the only way in is through a logical belief system that will have an equal and opposing force. Platitudes aren’t doing it for me. Believe me, if they worked, I’d eat them up.
I have to tell you that I admire your fortitude and how hard you work to keep yourself afloat. I’m just a whiny self indulgent narcissist compared to you. I want it all and I want it now! So, what I’m trying to say is that you have more to offer than you might be aware of. If you could put into words, the strength that keeps you going each day, I’d buy the book.
Wow, I can’t believe how wired I have gotten.
I could not think straight, but OxDrover, that’s perfect.
My children know an awful lot about the Lord, about the Bible, and they like the information that comes from Him!
I really need to get off of this merry-go-round. Your exactly right about the Bible. I hope I can stay focused this time.
They are actually taught the Bible daily so I guess that’s why they are so on top of things were I seem to be the slow one!
Giving some of those in the Bible a name we use today (P/S/N) is enlightening in it’s self, it’s perfect. Thank You!
I guess it’s me I need to work on most, the boys seem to be thinking clearer than me. And now I see!
What is wrong with me, what is this dead brain spell called? Why can I see so clearly sometimes and then I can’t understand a thing?
Skylar, “inspecting fruit”!! The boys will see that very quickly so reminding them what the Lord told us about the fruits is really great. Over time, he has rotten fruit. And they know that so just telling or reminding them.
This is going to be easier than I had made it out to be !!
Thank you all so much for your help, your ideas … I just can’t thank you enough!
Shabbychic, I’m not good at creative writing either! I agree with Skylar though, you offer more than you might realize !
I love you all! love, hugs and prayers, heavenbound
In my case, my parents are very difficult to discern as N’s or S’s or P’s. They SEEM so nice most of the time. But all of their children are rotten fruit. We are all either N’s or N-supply. Even the cat I gave my mom has health problems. Her low thyroid wasn’t discovered until she was about to die and I took her to the vet. She is extremely obese and has no hair on her tail. I knew she was being damaged because she was locked into a room all day with nothing to do for years.
I could see my mom taking her “cathood” away from her the same way she took my childhood away from me. She treated the cat like an object rather than a sentient being.
So even the cat is rotten fruit.
Yeah, I get that, Skylar.
I have one in my life that is so hard to tell n,s, or p.
I found a test…there are alot of them, but I found one that was really thorough on the internet and I filled in the answers as I knew these people would answer, lies and all. The one that is hard to tell about came up as extremely narcisstic (sp?) extremely psycopathic (sp?), and extremely histrionic,
my little boys father came up extreme psycopath (i can’t seem to spell today) I thought it was wild how even with the lies they would tell on these questions that it could still tell. I took it for myself as well and I came up ‘anxiety’ something disorder or whatever.
The thing is guys, you don’t have to have a “legal” diagnosis to say “son and so has traits for X disorder” or X AND Y. It is not uncommon for anyone with a psychological disorder to have MORE THAN ONE thing. It is COMMON for Ps to also be ADHD, and/or BI-POLAR. So if they have ALL THREE they can really be a “case.”
The EXACT diagnosis (or plurals) does NOT matter. sum them up as TOXIC. Get the TOXIC people out of your life. No matter WHAT KIND of poison they are, it will kill you.
Does it matter if the snake that bit you is a rattlesnake or a copper head or a coral snake? NOPE, they are all poison! That is all we need to know.
Sorry, OxDrover, you are completely right. It doesn’t matter what they are. It only matters if they are toxic to us. I admit though I did get bit and I wanted to know some things about these people and what it’s all about, so I know what kind of anti-poison to use! 🙂
I’m not really out to figure them out once I understood what was so different about them I could then begin to let go of the idea that maybe it was me or maybe they will change.
However the truth is when someone is toxic to you that is the real point right there and they need to go.
Thanks Oxy for not letting me get of track! Love, hugs, and prayers, heavenbound
Yes heaven……toxic is a much better description as it IS WHAT IT IS…..
It’s either a healthy relationship or an unhealthy one…..
CLear cut the forest and you will see it all clearly.
Doesn’t matter which bug is eating the trees…..if their dead their dead! Who cares!
Your doing great!
Jesus said,”if they dont accept you, do not cast your pearls before swine, wipe the dust off your sandals, and move on! let the dead bury their dead! In other words, why waste our precious gifts and energy on Ns and P s who dont love us, or appreciate us? They are already dead! So leave them to bury each other!Love, GemXX
Guys, I started a little list of what is TOXIC in my view, I am sure each of you will have more to add:
All liars
All cheaters
People who do criminal behavior
People who are unkind to others
People who are blame placers
People who are not fair
People who do not reciprocate kindness
Ungrateful people
Arrogant people
People who are condescending
People who present themselves as “holier than thou”
People who are dishonest
People who do not keep their word
People who will not sincerely apologize (and back it up with a behavior change)
People who percipitate “drama” as a way of life
People whose minds are “closed”
People who are intolerant of other people’s beliefs
The list is of course “endless,” but in short, people who make life miserable for others, uncaring people, people without compassion and appropriate pity.
Of course we have these people as next door neighbors, as the clerk at the local store, and attached to our lives at work, etc. and we can go NC with all of them unless we move to a desert island alone, but we don’t have to become deeply emotionally attached or let these TOXIC people become our emotional intimates. We can keep them at a comfortable social “arm’s length” and if possible, completely out of our lives.
Matt and I have talked before about weeding our gardens, thinning our rolodexes and cutting these people in our “circle of trust” out of our lives, out of our inner circle.
Of course there are times that these people will be related to or married to others we care about so we may have to “socialize” ‘with them from time to time, but we don’t have to let them INSIDE our heads and hearts.
A man my sons and I dearly love is married to a drama queen that we do not like at all, but because we want to visit with him, she must be included in our groups at times. We all know this, agree to do it on a limited basis because we adore him, but by “fixing our own heads” so that we realize we are allowing her into our PHYSICAL SPACE ONLY she doesn’t even irritate us as badly as if we were emotionally involved with her. We just realize what she IS, accept that, and keep her as far away EMOTIONALLY as we can.
She has been reguarly fired from her jobs (she is a nurse!) and she is applying for another one (the last one lasted 3 weeks before she got fired) and she called me today and asked me to give her a PHONY REFERENCE that I had worked with her (I never have) and that she was a good nruse etc (I would NEVER do that.)
Because I care about her husband I did not tell her to ‘go to hades” but instead, I simply told her, “I have been retired and not worked in 5 years, so it would be impossible for me to do that.” she asked again “well couldn’t you just say ….?” and I cut her off and said, “I have been retired for 5 years, and you have only been a nurse for 3+ so I could NOT have worked with you.”
My husband used to tell people I hd the ultimate TACT–“the ability to tell people to go to hell and make them HAPPY to be on their way.” I CAN do that, as I did with her, but the REASON in this case was I care about her husband so when I tell her to jump off a bridge I have to SMILE when I say it. LOL