Lovefraud recently received an e-mail from a reader. Her company had hired a new guy and she was tasked with helping him learn his job. The guy immediately made her feel extremely uncomfortable. Here’s what she wrote:
I can’t look him in the eye or even stand to talk with him. He is very “nice” and has never shown any angry tendencies. I can’t explain my feelings but my intuition tells me to be wary and afraid of him. He exhibits self-important behavior and is glib and overly polite. Just the thought of him makes me shudder.
He’s never given me any concrete reason to dislike him. However when I very first met him, he was too familiar and presumptuous, calling me by my nickname on the first day, which only close friends and family do. He also pestered me to go to lunch with him every single day or would manipulate it so that he’d be alone in the office with me at lunchtime. He never made any type of sexual advances to me, but would ask me off the wall questions that were not work related and that I couldn’t possibly have an answer to; and once offered me $20 to buy myself lunch because I wouldn’t go with him. I reported him to HR twice to get that harassment on record and had his desk moved away from mine. Everyone who comes in contact with him describes him as creepy.
He has a wife and three kids and his wife is rumored to be well off. He is at work on time every day and doesn’t take time off. On the surface he seems to excel in his work but if you look deeper, you’ll see that it’s all shell with not much substance. He appears to excel at his job but some of us have caught him in borderline deceptions at work but I firmly believe he is manipulative and knows exactly what he’s up to. Others don’t detect that; they think he’s a really nice guy who just doesn’t fit in. He acts kind of like the dumb Southern nice guy next door but my intuition screams that there’s a sinister quality about him. Some of us joke about the target on our backs, don’t piss him off, that sort of thing. Dane Cook’s “Creepy Guy at Work” comes to mind.
I’ve done some minimal Internet investigation on him and extensive investigation into the behavior itself but can’t seem to pinpoint it. I have read so many books, including Robert Hare, Martha Stout and Gavin De Becker. A lot of things fit from the sociopath’s profile and your Red Flags page, though some really don’t; he doesn’t exhibit aggressiveness, hatred of authority or anger at work.
The presence and mere thought of this person causes me tremendous physical and mental stress. So I avoid him and his gaze at all costs. But why is this? I’m so curious to know what quality or element he possesses that repels me. I’ve never in my life felt this guarded around another person. Is there a textbook explanation? The experience has caused me to have a deeper look inside myself as I don’t like feeling this way about anyone.
Intuition at work
I congratulated this woman for listening to her intuition. She was receiving abundant warning signs, by her own physical reactions, that there was something wrong with her co-worker.
Read the symptoms she describes: She can’t look him in the eye. She can’t talk to him. She shudders. Her body knows that she is in the presence of evil. Her intuition is telling her that the guy is a predator, and if she is not careful, she will be road kill. The woman’s co-workers even joke about having targets on their backs.
And that gaze that she avoids? It’s probably a predatory stare.
Yet he hasn’t done anything to cause problems. He is not overtly hostile or aggressive. In fact, he is overly polite.
So she asks, is there a textbook explanation?
Range of behaviors
The answer is yes. The explanation is that psychopaths exhibit a range of behaviors, and some are worse than others. If this woman’s co-worker was tested with the Hare PCL-R, his score might be too low to be officially considered a psychopath. That doesn’t mean he is not dangerous.
The common perception of a psychopath, popularized by the media, is a violent, manic-looking serial killer. In a few cases—very few—this is an accurate portrayal. But the vast majority of psychopaths never kill anyone.
Instead, they do things like create problems on the job. As our Lovefraud reader noted, the guy “seems to excel in his work but if you look deeper, you’ll see that it’s all shell with not much substance.”
Psychopaths at work typically get other people to do the work and then take credit, figure out whom they need to brownnose in order to get ahead, and sabotage anyone who gets in their way.
Executive psychopaths
Some psychopaths, ruthless and cutthroat, claw their way to the top, and then turn into tyrants. Dr. Robert Hare and Dr. Paul Babiak wrote a book called Snakes in Suits about psychopaths in the workplace.
Here’s a statistic that knocked my socks off:
Dr. Hare believes that psychopaths make up one percent of the population of North America. (Other people, using different criteria, believe the number is higher.) However, Dr. Hare writes in Snakes in Suits that three percent of corporate executives are psychopaths.
Did you get that? There are three times as many psychopaths among corporate executives as there are in the general population.
So that’s what happens to psychopaths in the workplace. They move into the corner office.
Listening to vibes
The Lovefraud reader was not comfortable with how she felt about this guy. I think she should be grateful to her intuition for being so vigilant. I also think she should acknowledge herself for listening to the vibes she was picking up.
I feel sorry for the people at her company who “think he’s a really nice guy who just doesn’t fit in.” They will probably find themselves as either victims, or unwitting accomplices, of workplace treachery.
By the way, chapters three and four of Snakes in Suits explains how psychopaths manipulate their victims. It is chilling.
Aloha, I agree with you 110%–
I have worked with teenaged “budding psychopaths” in mental health facilities as well…and they are some SCARY kids.
AT the time I first went to work there I was reeling from the fact that my P-son had committed murder, and it was a very healing experience for me. My first role there was as the admissions person, and I would sit down with the parents and discuss why they were admitting their kid there…and believe me the stories made me have to get up sometimes and leave the room to keep from bursting out in tears.
Some of these parents had “no clue” and others were really well versed—and believe it or not, some of their kids were WORSE than mine! Mine had only committed murder, some of theirs had raped very small children.
I ended up with several roles in that facility over a year and a half that I was there. After an encounter in which a patient tried, and almost succeeded in killing me, I decided that was “God’s way of telling me that it was time for me to seek other employment” but I have always thought that the job offer from that facility when I wasn’t even looking for a job was a Godsend in my own life. It helped me cope with the first couple of years after my son was sent to prison “for life” and to come to grips with the grief I felt at that time at the “loss” of my son.
Later, he sucked me back in with his feigned “repentence” and his con-job, mainly I think just for “fun” and also because if he had me conned, I sent him commissary money which made his life a little nicer there, and visited from time to time.
Again, when I realized the con job that had gone on for YEARS by that time, and I had developed the “malignant hope” that his repentence was sincere–the grief hit me again as hard or harder than it had when he was first arrested…but I was in a place in my life, just having lost my husband, then my beloved step father, and become involved with a P-BF, and then with my mother protecting and enabling my P-son, things spiraled downward at such a rate, at such a time as I had few resources to fight for survival–I finally literally RAN, fled for my life, which was the best thing I could have ever done.
If I had had the strength to “stand and fight” I would probably be dead today, but I feel strongly that my faith and protected me, and somewhere inside me was a still small voice that told me to RUN, and I LISTENED. I am finally learning I think that it is better to be a live dog than a dead lion. LOL
I am also starting to get to the point that I can laugh about some of this stuff, which I think is a big step on the road to recovery. I do know, too that it is a ROAD, not a destination.
I do believe I owe this site, its viewers and its administrator an apology and a clarification. As ‘Righteous Woman’ stated, I did indeed stumble on this site purely by accident. I can not remember the exact search criteria; it was a combination of male, female, ratio, rape & population.
When I came across the article it piqued my interest so I began to read. Yet, I did so with ignorance, at 12 AM, while watching the primaries. I thought this to be a blog, unaware of its homepage facet. So it was with tiredness and a lack of information that my initial response was made. I thought that most comments were pertaining to men and therefore made the anti-male comment. But more so, I disagreed with the ideal of attempting to social engineer certain types of behavior into only one sex.
So I apologize for having stirred up any hurtful feelings or invading a place for personal healing. I was a college student, yes in psychology, but dropped out before finishing my masters degree. I am over the age of 30, which is accompanied by very serious life experience. I suffered molestation and physical abuse as a child. I accompanied a woman to an abortion for a child which I wanted, but did so because it was right for her and ever since have felt anger towards the feminist movement which fails to notice the similarities of problems faced by both genders. I have also had a failed marriage with a controlling/cheating spouse.
I mention all of these things to explain that I have been exposed to similar situations of distress, from which I am capable of understanding your feelings and need for healing. That however does not change my views. I believe that you can not allow others to change your ability to live a fruitful and caring life. I do not believe it should be allowed to make you feel as though you have to be on guard and watchful of every individual who enters your life. I have had the unfortunate experience of trust issues, due to my own problems and I know the stress and difficulties with interpersonal skills it can cause. I have since had to learn to approach life in a new manner, using the things learned as tools in my life and not allow them to be mechanisms that control my interactions with the rest of the world. I have not completely mastered this because it is an unending journey, but I do feel as though we need to make more of an effort to control our fears and not vice versa.
I apologize for any comparison I may have made to the administrator or this sites registered members, when concerned with a negative manner and assumptive nature when comparing them to militant feminist. I again apologize for any disruption I may have caused. I only ask that it be kept in mind that our actions reflect heavily on the world that we occupy and that we may consciously or unconsciously shape our reality and the reality of others by way of our actions and feelings.
Thank you.
CV – Inquiring minds would like to know, since you volunteered some of your own experiences, Was you marriage short? and did you end the madness immediately? despite pleas to try again from your wife? We did not..we kept going and going and going….for many of us, for years.
Concerned Viewer,
What happened to us will forever change how we view the world and others. At first, it may be a bit paralyzing. As time goes by, we move from paralysis to wisdom.
There was something I missed before about a person that hurt me very badly. I will never miss these clues again. I will admit I have a hair trigger response to anything that doesn’t hit me right. At the same time, I know that people can have sad stories about their past and not be a Sociopath. People can have charisma AND compassion. People are complicated. But there is a set of behaviors that I am sure I will never miss again should I encounter them.
Many of us had shakey boundaries, or none at all. Lots of people have poor boundaries and they fall in love with a wonderful person and they live a nice life together.
At LoveFraud, we are learning to see dangerous behaviors that are cloaked in packaging that is not always recognizable for what it is. In fact, lots of the people here that were the “perpetrators” look like upstanding citizens in many facets of their lives. But most of us did have an inkling that something was not right. We now explore that inkling when we feel it or we obey our instincts at the risk of hurting someone’s feelings.. because before, we cared more about others than our own well being… at least I did.
And lastly, as we heal, I believe we look more and more at ourselves because after all, we were there and things don’t just “happen” to you. I played a role.
I now know the role I played inside and out. And I know the inklings, and I know a sugar coated piece of doogy doo when I see one… or at least, I have to knowledge to be careful before I take a bite. EEEWWWWWW. Sorry for that one.
Yes, I hope to love and trust and be free again in my spirit. But I can love AND be wise at the same time.
My experience with a Sociopath has changed me forever. I am stronger, more sure of my place in the world, more sure of who I am and who I am not.
Anyway, blah blah blah. Enough about me.
Thanks for stopping by. You may have learned something here that will help you one day… or help someone else. I do hope so. We talk about our experiences because it helps us heal and it helps others too.
All the best to you….. Aloha!
Dear Righteous Woman,
It was a relationship of 9 years, 7 of those marriage. 5 extra marital relationships that I know of and a lot of crying, anger and apologies were her response to my frustrations. I am not one to give up easily on things when I believe in them.
I do plan on reading the site, when given the chance…I do so if not to further my information base than to experience the concepts and feelings of another group of individuals.
I am going through child support issues right now, and stumbled on the site. Gave me a great source of understanding…because for a long time..I really felt alone, no one I knew had been through it. It is very interesting to read and compare historys. And to lend support, strength and experience to the varied stages of recovery. And it is recovery. As a woman, I hung in there for the benefit of my son..at least in anticpiation of HOW he should benefit from having a father. It didn’t work out that way, but i was tortured and yanked around in the process. Now, ensuring that my son has not been primed and ready to be taken advantage of in the future is a huge priority for me. The behaviors of any S are not acceptable, and many of us were told to respect our parents regardless, that set us up to be victims…as you read on, I am sure you will see what I am talking about.
Who knows, with a masters in psychology…this may become your niche. Psychologist can identify what we are dealing with, but give no tools to help us deal with it…so, now we are here in our many stages of recovery.
Dear CV,
it sounds very much like your X “fits the profile”—the extramarrital relationships in great number is one of the “RED FLAGS”
You may just be at the RIGHT PLACE after all.
“Hanging in there” is another one of the very common things about people who are “chosen” victims. Most of us have that same committment to working things out logically, or overlooking “small faults” until they become BIG faults, and we are by then emotionally “trapped.” It is sometimes almost like Stockholm Syndrome.
Psychopaths have no conscience, their brains are literally hard wired different than “normal” people’s brains and there is unfortunately a big genetic component to the disorder. It is NOT a “mental illness” though these people can also have mental illness or bi-polar, depression, etc. at the same time.
Many self medicate with drugs or alcohol, as well.
Good reading and do keep an open mind, we are not “bashers” here but I think many of us are pretty “opinionated” and you can see that some of us (me included) can have a hair trigger if someone acts in such a way that we perceive it as trying to invalidate our approach. LOL
Healing is a journey, a long never-ending road, not a destination, as the encounters leave you changed in some ways. It can be a change for the better, and you can come out much stronger and a better more understanding person. But even healing doesn’t make you want to get a tattoo that says “door mat” on your back. In fact, it may make you a bit cautious (not paranoid, but definitely CAUTIOUS)
CV: you said “I believe that you can not allow others to change your ability to live a fruitful and caring life. I do not believe it should be allowed to make you feel as though you have to be on guard and watchful of every individual who enters your life. I have had the unfortunate experience of trust issues, due to my own problems and I know the stress and difficulties with interpersonal skills it can cause. I have since had to learn to approach life in a new manner, using the things learned as tools in my life and not allow them to be mechanisms that control my interactions with the rest of the world. I have not completely mastered this because it is an unending journey, but I do feel as though we need to make more of an effort to control our fears and not vice versa.”
Your goals certainly are my goals.. and I would guess most people on here as well. Only it will be with greater wisdom and caution and the ability to have boundries for those wish to abuse them. But I fully intend to heal from my experiences and move on with great hope and positive thinking.
This site has never felt to be biased – as for the label Sociopath – I believe many of us are too kind, forgiving, loving and looking for the best in someone to loosely throw that word onto someone. And from the varied experiences read here, there are no man/woman, rich/poor, young/old criteria placed on who these Sociopaths will be.
I think a common thread is most of us seem to be caring, forgiving, intelligent, willing to try and try again, giving the relationship our all – until we have no more all left. The very real events that occured; be it lies, cheating, stealing, manipulation, putdowns – have left us temporarily in disbelief, hurt, disappointed and struggling to regain our former healthy and hopeful selves.
From what you have shared – you likely have felt the pain as well. Whether consciously or subconsiously, everyone who has been hurt to that degree needs healing, comfort, understanding and what this site offers most, is validation that you werent crazy for trying to be part of what appeared to be a happy relationship in the beginning and not being quick to give up on it.
I think many of us here actually have HUGE compassion towards others including men and we have hung in there with these men over and above what we should have put up with. Man hating women would have the reverse behaviour, similar to a male with Personality Disorders, who would secretly be controlling the relationship and would infact be ruling the relationship on their terms. The blogs here prove that many of the targets here have not behaved as man haters.
Good points, all. We’re not man-haters. If we had been, we’d have turned around and done the same things to the people who did these things to us. The best I could muster was a little innocuous pranking of him before my conscience took hold. Yes, some of us are angry — but you would be angry too if you were cast in a play and moved around a stage like a pawn, never being told that a performance was even underway.
It’s a very strange, bumpy adjustment, resuming a reality already in progress while we were in the N Fog. Bumpy, angry sometimes, but ultimately, we acted in good faith. Even me, who tried to hide my true self from the P, somewhat subconsciously, in order to avoid being hurt by his eventual betrayal, still tried my best to believe in him one more time .
If anything, most of us have been people with huge tolerance for a spectrum of behaviors, large levels of acceptance and love for others and benevolent faith in the universe.
Unfortunately, acting on those traits has sometimes gotten us into trouble. So, we come here, discuss it, work on ourselves and try to keep moving upward and onward.