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Beliefs, love and sociopaths

Jeremy Meeks

Jeremy Meeks

Meet Jeremy Meeks. His photo was posted on Facebook in mid-June. With his high cheekbones, steel-blue eyes and tough-guy tattoos, the image quickly went viral.

Where was the picture posted? On the Facebook page of the Stockton, California Police Department. Jeremy Meeks is a criminal, charged with 11 felony counts of weapons possession and gang activity. This is his mug shot.

No matter. Women were apparently lusting after him, and sending him their phone numbers.

Women lusting after sexy felon Jeremy Meeks are pissing off his wife, on Gawker.com.

I saw the picture on TV last week. Multiple media outlets—including Time.com— reported that because of the photo’s more than 100,000 Facebook likes, Meeks had been offered a modeling contract. This turned out to be nothing more than a rumor there was no modeling deal, at least not yet.

Woman marries confessed killer Joran van der Sloot

Also last week news broke that Joran van der Sloot, the Dutchman suspected in the 2005 disappearance of Natalee Holloway, married his girlfriend in a Peruvian prison.

Van der Sloot is serving 28 years for the murder of Stephany Flores in Peru in 2010. He confessed to beating, choking and suffocating her.

Apparently Van der Sloot’s past meant nothing to Leidy Figueroa, his new bride. She met Van der Sloot while visiting a relative in prison, and is pregnant his child.

SEE IT: Joran Van der Sloot’s pregnant new bride arrives at Peruvian jailhouse for wedding service, on NYDailyNews.com.

Woman will leave children to marry prisoner

Here’s another story, sent in by a Lovefraud reader.

Jennifer Butler, of Suffolk, England started writing to Christopher Mosier in a Minnesota prison in July 2011. Mosier is due to be paroled in September, and Butler plans to leave her three young children in England to move to the U.S. to marry him.

Butler met Mosier on writeaprisoner.com. According to his profile, he was sentenced to 15 years for a violent burglary and drug charges.

British mom of 3 young kids will leave family for U.S. prisoner she met online, on NYDailyNews.com.

Butler saved up enough money to travel 5,000 miles to visit Mosier. When she got to Minnesota, he had been in a fight with another prisoner and lost his visiting privileges. They had to talk through a glass window.

Still, Butler keeps the faith.

“Chris is a wonderful man,” Butler says, according to the New York Daily News. “Sure, he made a few mistakes in the past, but everybody deserves a second chance.”

Overlooking the criminality

All of these guys are convicted criminals, and we’re not talking frat boy pranks or drug court. These guys were arrested for gang activity, burglary and murder.

Why are the women willing to overlook such obvious criminality and fall in love with them?

For most of the women who think Meeks is hot, it may just be a goof. After all, clicking the Facebook like button is not really getting involved with him. Some women, however, sent money for his legal defense.

And the women marrying Van der Sloot and Mosier I’m sure they are catching a lot of flack. But Van der Sloot and Mosier are probably telling them something like: “I know I messed up. But with you at my side, babe, I can be a new man. Your love will keep me strong. Your love will save me.”

The women are likely falling for those sweet words. However, I want to be cautious about criticizing, because they are exhibiting behavior that probably all of us involved with sociopaths know too well:

They are believing what they want to believe.

Our mind in love

I’m always amazed by the degree to which the love we feel is in our own minds.

When we fall in love, we don’t just fall in love with a person. We also fall in love with an idea, a promise, and a dream of the future. Someone comes along who appears to match our vision, and we believe we’ve found the person we’ve been looking for.

Another key component of our love is our concept of ourselves. We may believe that we’re compassionate, nonjudgmental, supportive and forgiving. This is central to our being, and the way we want to live. We turn our beliefs into reality through the individual that we choose as a romantic partner.

Beliefs and dreams

Sociopaths know this about human nature, either overtly or instinctively. They use our desire to believe what we want to believe in order to exploit us.

That’s why they ask us questions and listen carefully to our answers. That’s why they study us.

Sociopaths work to discover our beliefs, so they can mirror them.

Sociopaths convince us to reveal our dreams, so they can promise to make them come true.

Staying safe

So what’s the answer? How can we stay safe? How can we make ourselves not believe what we want to believe, and accept reality instead?

Perhaps the answer is to first believe in ourselves. If we believe that we deserve true, authentic love, we may be more willing to recognize that our partner isn’t really supplying that love.

And if we believed in listening to ourselves, we may be more willing to pay attention when our intuition is warning us to get away from someone.

Belief and love are totally intertwined. To stay safe, we need to be sure that what we believe in, and who we love, are real.

 


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73 Comments on "Beliefs, love and sociopaths"

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Yeah – I sure wanted to believe. I wanted to believe I had finally found what I’d been waiting for. Then I believed in keeping my word. None of it turned out well for me.

Donna .. you wrote:

“When we fall in love, we don’t just fall in love with a person. We also fall in love with an idea, a promise, and a dream of the future. Someone comes along who appears to match our vision, and we believe we’ve found the person we’ve been looking for.”

And ..

“Another key component of our love is our concept of ourselves. We may believe that we’re compassionate, nonjudgmental, supportive and forgiving. This is central to our being, and the way we want to live. We turn our beliefs into reality through the individual that we choose as a romantic partner.”

This describes my experience so perfectly. These pictures I held in my head significantly clouded my judgment. And not just in romantic relationships .. I think we tend to do this with other toxic persons in different roles in our lives as well. Another component is self-worth. We may not feel we are deserving of anything better, so we try to ‘find’ the good in a toxic person and we cling to that good come hell or high water.

Thank you for posting this article!

I saw this photo on the internet and did a double take. The picture reminded me of how good looking the sociopath was that I once ‘knew’. And how mesmerizing it was for me to be with someone so beautiful. On the outside.

Aside from our concepts about love, being ‘good’, and having our dreams mirrored, we also have deeply embedded ideas/feelings about very good looking people. As if their looks imbue them with an importance, a status, even a goodness and deservingness that the rest of us don’t possess. They are often worshiped by complete strangers, given favors/jobs/sex, and coveted as partners or friends. The man I knew would walk into a room and everyone would turn to stare at him. Complete strangers would walk up to him and say he was one of the most beautiful men they had ever seen in person.

My experience is when the disordered person is particularly good looking even more feelings, and perhaps unconscious ideas, are triggered. Our lust is ignited. I know this was true for me. In a way it was my personal version of hitting the jackpot. My ego was completely engaged. Somehow his being so beautiful shored up my insecurities about my appearance, my worth, my ‘importance’.

My own unhealthy narcissism was triggered.

It really was embarrassing to realize how much my entanglement had to do with his looks and his sex appeal. I felt so foolish when I finally understood how much weight I had given to his physical appearance. Because in truth, from the beginning, he was a pretty loud and obnoxious person. A slob. An energy hog. Inconsiderate. I could see all this. Of course, as most spaths are, he was also an excellent wordsmith.

One of the things that broke through my delusion about what it meant that he had chosen me (because by crazy-logic it meant I was also beautiful) was that I met a number of women he slept with, and some he would eventually sleep with. None of them were as beautiful as him. And many were downright unattractive. All of them were totally smitten with him, ga-ga.

He could have had stunning women. He chose not. My guess is his narcissism kept him from choosing someone who would be too competitive with him, and likely have her choice of many gorgeous men.

Boy did I eat humble pie.

slimone .. thank you for this perspective. I never looked at it like this. My x was very attractive. A beautiful man. I did perseverate on his looks and excused a lot of behaviors because of that overriding emotion now that I really think about it. And I dated a very attractive man with piercing eyes who was not kind to me. Again, it was hard for me to walk away from that. Also, the OW my former husband chose was very unattractive. I was absolutely shocked when I saw her. I realize now that the disordered men may indeed pick women who are less attractive, maybe less accomplished, etc because it will be more difficult for them to leave.

When I first started dating my ex anytime he would leave I would get sick to my stomach. People started telling me it was because I was in love. I told myself that must be it. Now looking back I think it was my subconscious trying to warn me only I didn’t listen. Sadly I was also warned by HIS ex that he would ruin my life, unfortunately he already had me convinced that SHE was crazy. I have been divorced from him since 2007 and am still not ready to even think about dating anyone. I still don’t trust my instincts when it comes to people. I figure I am happy to be living a somewhat normal life without drama. The only drama we have comes from the EX but no where near what it used to be for that I am thankful.

I want to take a moment to add the other perspective. There are women in prison who attract guys like I can not believe. There are web sites and FaceBook pages dedicated to women like Jodi Arias, Casey Anthony, and others. This is just as sick as women who lust after guys in prison. It makes absolutely no sense to me at all what other guys see in these women, but obviously some guys do.

My recommendation is the same as everyone else on this site – run away from dating a sociopath, do NOT start a relationship, heed the warning signs and red flags. Just a friendly reminder to keep in mind that the sociopath might be a pretty female trying to get her hooks into a guy, not just a guy whose mug shot went viral and adored by women.

It goes both ways, as we all know.

Keep up the excellent work, thanks to everyone for all you do!

This article is disturbing, but I can see these feelings in myself. I wonder if that after 25 years with my husband, I don’t believe there is a different kind of person out there. It’s almost as if I don’t believe that any other kind of relationship exist.
Thank you for helping me see my absurd thought process, Donna.

“The women are likely falling for those sweet words. However, I want to be cautious about criticizing, because they are exhibiting behavior that probably all of us involved with sociopaths know too well:

******They are believing what they want to believe*******.”

Donna, I think this is overly simplistic and sounds like victim blaming and ignores the emotional and mental dynamics that the victims are subjected to, while underplaying a romantic manipulator’s ability to romantically manipulate.

Nope. No dynamic here. The females fall for guys with high testosterone. Not every brutal ape in prison is a sociopath but lots of them attract women (and sometimes men) easily. It’s biology + stupidity on part of certain females and males looking for thrill. Another thing is that many people weren’t raised with the right way of thinking about life and themselves.
Sociopathy is a psychiatric illness, it’s not present in every mean or violent person. Some of them are SPaths, most aren’t. I guess people need to be warned that even though someone may not display all the traits associated with sociopathy, they still need to be avoided if they behave badly. Its not that we should be on constant red alert for sociopathy, it’s that many of us need to cultivate self-respect and the sense of self-worth that won’t allow us to put up with bad behaviour, be it coming from sociopaths or not.

It is not quite so cut and dry. As an abandoned child (one of the worst kind because it was in plain sight…living among the blind and angry…in other words, my family of origin), undoubtedly led to my undoing.
Their total disregard of my thoughts and feelings, in fact, my very existence, probably led to my accepting the first person who was ‘like me’ and who was also socially rejected. Even after physical assault (including sexual) and pain from constant ‘put-downs’ that led to my not being able to formulate a response (that undercutting of your already ‘self aware weaknesses’) I chose to stay with the spath…and even panicked the last year of high school at the thought of losing this ‘friend’ (enemy in reality).
In other words…nobody is ‘stupid’ (an ugly word that is totally demeaning in every way). In what way, Mr. Strannick (and I can tell you are a male) are these women ‘stupid’ in a way that you have ‘never’ been?

Stannik

Really Strannilk?? no dynamics? Wrong

He looks psycho to me

All too optimistic, coming out of what I believed to be the “worst” marriage, and looking for sex as my first husband was impotent from even before we met, something I had accepted early on, but later missed because all connection ceased eventually”. I was a sex starved, never looked better 35 year old” but I had been emotionally beaten down” the perfect mixture for being a target. I told myself positive things, this was my opportunity to do things right this time around and not make same mistakes” so when the man who ended up as husband number 2 and a spath, unloaded how his ex fiancé had cheated on him and he had never gotten over it” and never really had found that right woman, yet, even with many tries in his pocket” I saw him as a man in my similar position” wanting to do things right this time. So his love bombing, I thought was a genuine connection with 2 like minded people. I saw what I wanted to see” and projected the desires I had for myself so much I believed he was seeking that..

Having gone to the hearing to extend protective order against him recently, I was able to ascertain that he is still the same arrogant, entitled person I failed to see early on” I did not look directly at him, but I could see his mannerisms and my family told me his behavior as he walked into the courtroom” ugh. Our minds can truly view things however we want” reality is the challenge.

Thanks for the article!

So did you see what YOU wanted to see or what HE wanted you to see?

a little of both I think. He likely picked up on many of my dreams as I talked a little bit in the beginning. Good point. However, Donna makes a good point too in that we allow ourselves to see what we want, my friends thought he was arrogant right off the bat, I saw it as confidence. So in the same given social setting I saw something in a much more gleaming light than others around, which goes to validate the article.

Just for the sake of clarity, Jeremy Meek’s teardrop tattoo only has a couple of possible meanings, one of which is that he murdered someone.

I have to agree with the teardrop signifying a murder. Having worked with gang members in my career (past and present), those drops rarely mean anything other than that.

People don’t believe what they want to believe, like they choose it off some Chinese take out menu, people believe what is true for them and what their experiences have shown them. When you encounter someone(thing) that is completely foreign to your own reality base and they are doing something TO you (manipulation for their own selfish and often twisted gain) that you have never even heard about let alone experienced, let alone understand, that even the experts in the field can’t seem to agree on………How can you say that the victim is PARTICIPATING in their own exploitation Donna? With all do respect I just think this is very misleading and damaging to the victim and I think it can EASILY be construed as victim blaming. Maybe in the case of the nut jobs that willingly and intentionally and knowingly seek out some sociopathic prisoner but I would not put the average victim of a Psych/ Sociopath in the same category and it SOUNDS like this article is doing just that.

We participate by not seeing the person they really are” they show us what they want us to see, yes, but they also show us signs of who they really are, and we choose to dismiss them for the “reality” of them we chose to fall in love with” otherwise, we wouldn’t stay with them long enough to have bad enough experiences with them to be sharing all these life events in common with one another here in this forum.

Its a hard pill to swallow, and its NOT blaming the victim to say that we chose to see them a certain way. If we chose to see them as they are and stayed anyway, that is a conscious choice and is our fault” doesn’t make us a bad person, and sadly many stay or go back even after discovering who they are with” before you leave, it appears that staying is easier, or the only choice because “theres nowhere to go, there is no money, there are kids etc..” and even in the first few years after you leave it may still look “easier”” as time goes on, and you wake up more and more, you see that you get to know who you are again, and then everyone else gets to meet you again or for the first time outside the box of being with the sociopath.

You actually said it quite clearly “When you encounter someone(thing) that is completely foreign to your own reality base and they are doing something TO you (manipulation for their own selfish and often twisted gain) that you have never even heard about let alone experienced, let alone understand, that even the experts in the field can’t seem to agree on—” Those words show precisely how we participate” we choose to believe the good in that person who is doing these things when evidence may be to the contrary. Those who were brought up in abuse see it as normal, and those who never saw abuse trust the person is good and acting weird but is still the good person, or the false belief “if I just love him/her enough it will stop.” By staying with someone who is “doing something to you that you don’t understand or have never seen” and oftentimes made us uncomfortable, we participated simply by staying and choosing to believe contrary to that what we were experiencing. Its not blaming the victim, and I hope someday you can see that Donna’s article is pointing out a key point that many of us get to well after leaving.

still missing my point. From a very early stage of one of these entanglements, you will and mind and heart have been hijacked. Everyone here is looking at this in retrospect with understanding an knowledge they didn’t have then.
I’ve spoken with a couple other people about this article and the responses, including my trauma counselor who is a professional and specializes in this area and they agree, this is off track! It is NOT taking into consideration the victim’s mental and emotional state during the process! I can assure you that I have kicked several people right out of my life before and after Spathtard but they had not done to me what he did to me, they did not set the hook. I was not manipulated into believing they were someone other than who they are.
You are not reading my comment as intended, FYI and are counter commenting on meanings that are not accurate. I did not understand what I was seeing because most of it was hidden so how did I participate in it? WOW……….I can’t even sort out how off base this is. Uncle.

I was happily married, made my husband happy by all accounts, was widowed. 10 years later was targeted by the spath. I was the same person and approached courtship the same way. My ex spath wasn’t particularly handsome. I wasn’t actively looking for a relationship. I knew I was the same person in both marriages and I knew I made my first husband happy. Through all the blaming the ex P did of me, I had proof that it wasn’t my fault. I was his second ex wife, and he pretty much accused me of the exact same faults as his first ex wife. Again, this proved to me that it wasn’t my fault – he is the common denominator in both his failed marriages. I’m not a perfect person, but I know that I did nothing to cause the spath disaster in my life; and I know I did nothing wonderful to cause my first wonderful husband to love me, keep his commitments, care about me, etc. He did those things because of who he is. The spath did what he did because of who he is.
The ex P lied to me about lots of things and I relied on what he said. He blamed me for the porn that he did, but he was doing porn and cross dressing for decades before he met me. My first husband did not do porn when we were married and did not do porn for decades before I met him. I would not have married the P if I’d known the truth. He lied for the purpose of deceiving me into marrying him.

I liked the article but also have mixed feelings about it and about some of the comments. I feel that I, because of my emotional state, was not able to “willingly” overlook my ex-spath husband’s behavior or the signs that he is a spath. Like all spath’s, my ex showed signs early on, of his true self and I ignored them. But I ignored them only because I wasn’t able to see them for what they were. I had only vague feelings that something wasn’t right and I chose to believe I was misinterpreting those vague feelings. I know I have to accept the fact that through my actions and non-actions, I and my ex-spath both participated in ruining my life. And at times I feel like such a fool for having stayed so long in my marriage and allowing the destruction of my life, that it causes me real physical pain. At other times I feel like a victim and that I deserve much compassion (even from myself) because I interpreted the vague feelings to the best of my ability under the circumstances due to past abuse by my parents and siblings. I bounce back and forth from feeling like a victim to feeling like a fool. Neither one feels good. If there was justice in life, I’d turn into a spath and merrily continue on with my life without a care in the world, as my ex-spath does. But I’ve learned there is no such thing as justice when a spath is involved.

Dustey, Ask yourself this……if you KNEW what you know now, about him, these types, etc,,, would you allow it to happen again if someone did the exact same things? Would you accuse your child of being stupid because they make a mistake or misjudged a situation and got injured? The ONLY reason he was able to do what he did to me is that the red flags with him meant something entirely different that with anyone I had known in the past and I believed his BS because I could not conceive the reality of who(what) he really is. I was SO upside down and confused and weakened, OMG! It’s indescribable and i’m still not back entirely. My brain still struggles to comprehend this type of person and violation.
I compare this to being in a Tsunami….. the people who knew what a tsunami was turned and ran for the hills, some of the people who didn’t know what was going on ran with them and others who didn’t know the danger at hand stood and watched in amazement. Well some of all of those people were killed, plowed right over. Did the ones who stood there unknowingly in grave danger participate in their own death?? I think not. Did they want to die? I doubt it. They were not from there, had not been educated since childhood about this phenomenon and what to do if and when it occurs.

For your own sake, please don’t confuse your ignorance with stupidity. It’s easy to do once you have the knowledge you have now and are looking back in retrospect but please remember that you didn’t have that knowledge then. I was raised with a sociopathic brother, two and a half years younger than I am, and I still didn’t “get it” because I was never romantically manipulated by him and he never intentionally hurt me. He is a full fledged sociopath but not until the relationship with Spathtard was
O V E R and the spell started to wear off and I learned through my own determination, the truth about him, and studied, studied studied……did I see the similarities clearly. It’s not YOU that participates in the abuse, it’s the hollowed out shell the Psychopath creates once he hooks you, then mentally and emotionally stunes you and then sucks what he wants out of you.
He creates an addiction, and sometimes VERY quick, through extremely skilled and COVERT manipulation, deceit, mental and emotional seduction…….sucks you dry and then either outright discards you with as much care as flushing the toilet or keeps you hanging on like a cat batting around an injured mouse until YOU leave. In my case it was a little of both.
I doubt VERY seriously that ANYone who has been through one of these nightmares and survived it, has done their homework and educated them selves, will ever go through another. I’m not saying that people don’t get retargeted and victimized but my guess would be that it’s mostly people who haven’t really immersed themselves in the full healing and education process of the aftermath.
My best to you Dusty!

Hi Dorothy2, Thank you for your reply and best wishes. No, knowing what I know now, I would not allow it to happen to me again. As a matter of fact I went on 2 dates with a man (first dates after my divorce) and after the second date I caught him in a lie. The lie was of no significance really (he lied about his age). But one of the hallmarks of my ex-spath’s behavior was lying about anything and everything for no apparent reason. After I caught the man in the lie about his age, I did some investigating and found more lies. I immediately ended all communication with him. He attempted twice to contact me but I wouldn’t allow it. So apparently I’ve educated myself and learned something useful. I’ve learned many sad facts about life with a spath too. The hardest fact to handle is that once your life is ruined by a spath you will never get them out of your head. Each time you have a money worry, a health worry or any other kind of worry you’ll immediately think of how the root of your worry was planted by something your spath did or didn’t do. At least that’s how it is with me. Not a day goes by that I don’t see or feel some negative impact from my life with a spath. I look forward to the day when I can free my mind from the the torture of reliving the events that brought me to where I am. Even though I believe I’ve immersed myself in the full healing and education process of the aftermath, I doubt such a day will arrive since the damage to my financial wellbeing and family relationships has was 100%. I wish you the best too Dorothy2!

Dustey, I completely understand EXACTLY what you said in this post. The damage is something that just is so pervasive and deep and sticky and slimy….
we will get through this though, maybe never forget it entirely but hopefully remember it in a different way. I see a huge difference after a year+ and I would imaging I will see an even bigger difference a year from now. I can look at the positives too,,,,,,I quit drinking and I learned a HUGEly important lesson.
Hang in there Dustey!! {{{HUGS}}}

Dustey, let me also say….I’m sorry. I hear the pain in your words and I understand how horrible it is accepting that things were not what you thought and were led to believe they were. There are so many really painful feelings that go along with all of that. And I too wish there was justice….I think that is one of the bones that sticks in my throat about all of this. If I knew of a way to hold that POS accountable without compromising my own values I would.
One thing that has helped me is to see him as the pathetic creep that he really is. FINALLY I don’t ache for him or feel love towards him and to let go of feeling those feelings for him was very hard, but there IS no “him” that I loved…..just a fake and a fraud and a loser mommy’s boy weirdo pervert, a joke of a “human being” and less of a real man at 48 years old that my friend’s son is at 18!

Thank you Dorothy2! I hope that some day you and I (and all victims of a Spath) will find it unnecessary to think about our past Spath’s at all. They don’t deserve to control our thoughts as they do. I’m sure they don’t have any thoughts about us since we can’t be used anymore. Hugs to you girl!

I’m wondering if what I went through is considered relative to all the above.
I met a man online by accident who slowly charmed me with his words. I was beautiful, he loved me, was coming to visit me once his 6 month work contract was over…etc…he even would tell me at times before physically meeting “I can’t wait to get home to you”. I found it odd but was certainly smitten by it all
During his contract Before visiting me I snooped around on his social networking sites to find there were many other woman he was saying the same things to. Once I approached him on it and I had proof, he tried to convince me I was nuts and I didn’t actually see this…as he would quickly find the comments and erase them
So I closed my eyes to that and he eventually came to visit and we became very close. We managed to see one another every 5-6 months with daily communication.
Fast forward three years later..as he was away on another work contract I hadn’t heard from him and of course my suspiscions over took my thinking and I emailed him asking him what I thought. He admitted to meeting someone while away on work and they were now in love…
Ok not only did I think he was strange I fell for his crap again when this happened a year ago and he finished the contract and went back to his home. During the past year, even though he admitted he was still in touch with her becuse she loved him, he and I managed three visits..by the way I paid for the flight and hotel… He convinced me all this past year the worst possible things you could imagine about this girl…physical unattractive, very poor family, sexually unappealable.
Last we were together was march this year and one month later he was home and I noticed no contact from him. Only to find out that “he had to hurt me one last time and do what he thought his heart felt” and that was to leave me and be with this girl, who’s family insisted he live with them whilr he gets settled and they get married…he is 60 and she is 30…and btw he is still insisting he wants to be with me and doesn’t know if he is doing the right thing.
Am I on the right path by considering he is a sociopath or no?

sounds like a sociopath or at least a con artist!! This guy is conning many women with the same con game. Have you thought about contacting the other women to hear their stories of this con artist?…bet they are exactly the same as yours. It would be wise for you to talk with the other women on the phone.

Your story sounds very similar to Donna Anderson’s story (lovefruad site creator)

You need to go “no contact” with his guy asap before he give you a disease and spends all your money on airline tickets to come visit you. BTW what is the reason he gives you that you have to pay for his airline tickets?

Google “no contact narcissist” and get rid of this con artist by following the no contact rule. He know exactly how to manipulate you to drag you along to play his game = by using his words . REMEMBER ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THEN WORDS….watch his action starting today!!

Read Donna Anderson’s personal story at the top of this site…she too paid for her husband to fly around to visit other women. Dr Phil has also done shows on what sound exactly like you situation and Dr Phil said the women were being conned by a masterful manipulator.

Reading story after story from victims of internet dating I think dating on line is extremely dangerous because a sociopath or psychopath can hook you in with words and you are not able to follow your gut instinct like dating the old fashion way meeting someone in person. Look at meetup.com it’s a free site that list all the clubs, organization & groups in your city then join a group such as a hobby you have always done/wanted to do or a walking group to meet people not just guys but to meet women that have common interest with you to get out and socialize…who knows if they have a brother or friend that you would hit it off with. Please seriously consider not dating anyone online especially this con artist guy that has a mental hold of your mind with his lying words.

Have you ever thought that there are no “job contracts” that he uses this as an excuse?

Have you ever thought that he could be married with kids?

These are things you need to think about..because if he was “single” then he would want to be with you in the same city not coming in once or twice a year even with daily contact via phone..guys want physical contact too.

Thanks so much for your input!
Since the first time I found remarks to others and told him about it he immediately blocked any access I could get to the sites so unfortunately I do not have their names. Imagine this was at the beginning of our 3 years and i was leery…but because I’d fallen into his world and he was visiting me and saying the things he did and making plans with me I felt I won over the other women. I wasn’t even looking to meet anyone he approached me through a forum and one thing led to another
As far as the airline tickets and hotels/meals it was always me who insisted on paying because for one reason or another he didn’t have the funds. Of
Course he would object and with my persistence he agreed but always insisted on payback..never got it tho.
What really kills me is the way he met up with this current girl, he said the horrible things about her to convince me he didn’t like her only to turn around and say he is marrying her?? What kind of person does that and why?
Why didn’t he just not tell me about her and stop contact with me altogether instead telling me what he was doing..and now I haven’t heard a word for twoWeeks. He was corresponding with me right up
To two hours before his flight to be with this girl.
I actually called him on his actions when he told me his plans…I explained to him that he comes
From a very unstable upbringing (his mother sexually abused him and committed suicide and then was shifted from abusive family over and over again) and I said to him “you are so desperate to find as many people
To love you because you didn’t have it growing up”….
Thanks so much jan7 for your thoughtful words

Your welcome….I see lots of red flags with this guy…and I think you do too but you are believing his words with no facts to back them up. He tells you something and you believe it.

This guy is sadly dragging you along, he is keeping you hooked just incase this other woman drops him.

RED FLAGS with this guy:

You are paying for him to come visit you

He gave you a pity me story to hook you in and feel sorry for him (his child hood story…unless you see the mothers death certificate dont believe this story) Just because someone tells you something does not mean it is true. Up at the top of LOvefruad look for the tab “pity play” to learn more about his con game.

He is talking with other women

he “slowly charmed me with words”

his work “contract” prevents him from visiting you or you him (major red flag)

he tells you negative things about this other woman…Why? because he wants you keep your distance from her, he does not want you to talk with her this is why he has manipulated you to believe that she is not a good person…this is called “triangulaiton” google “narcissist triangulation” to learn about this type of control. Guess what he has told the other women that have found out about you…the same description he told you about the other girls.

he cheated on you and neglected to tell you he was “in love” with someone else sorry but the respectful thing to do is end a relationship with you first before dating someone else.

I suspect this guy is married with kids because there are so many read flags with this guy. Please seriously think about going no contact with him by changing your phone number, email, etc. Other wise he will be back and will keep playing you. You deserve better then what you are settling for right now. Remember there are 7 billion people on this planet half men so dont settle!!!

Funny thing is there is a lot to him that is truthful so why does he need to lie about this aspect?
He is divorced with two older children. He works for the govt. and he has managed to finish his education recently with a 4.0 GPA which I have seen much of his work and his graduation.
What is his stupid reasoning to lie about the rest? I can’t figure it out…I do believe he does not know the meaning of “in love” no matter what he tells me…he uses the word much to freely as I have seen him do with others
I also wouldn’t be able
To ever get in touch with this new girl…I haven’t asked her name I have only seen pictures of her so there would be no contact…I feel he said so many horrible things about her to try to
Convince himself that she was indeed all of those things because it was an extremely big move he would have to make to be with her…then he claims he was very depressed and had to make a decision between her and I and realizes he was trying to convince himself she was all those awful things but he was fooling himself…so he says
Sounds strange I know

Janedoe,

What does your gut tell you about this guy?

Jan7, I’m glad I read your comment. I had not heard of “narcissist triangulation” but I know you’re right. My Spath spoke negatively about everyone in his life to keep me away from them. After our divorce he continues to do the same thing. He moved in with his current wife before our divorce was final. I’m sure she and I will never meet, he’s made sure of that. I’m also sure she will never be alone with anyone from his family who might tell her what he’s done. My daughter-in-law is also a Spath who uses that technique. She keeps all of her family and my family away from each other. If she can’t do that she makes sure she’s always around to control everything. During the 10 years that I allowed her to be in my life, she never allowed me to be alone with my son or to be alone with any of her family. She tells lies about everyone to make everyone sound so evil that your afraid to get to know them. After I caught her in a huge lie about me, I decided to cut her and my son out of my life. There was no other choice. I believe your comments to Janedoe are right on the money. I would even go so far as to say the man Janedoe speaks of is definitely a Spath and that Janedoe SHOULD immediately drop all contact and run away as fast as she can. Thank you Jan7 for your insightful input.

Dustey. I should add also that sociopaths also use a “smear campaign” during and after a relationship to manipulate people so that when the victims speaks the truth no one will believe them because of all the lies the sociopath has told to them. Both the smear campaign and triangulation is to keep people from talking about the sociopaths horrible behavior.

google: “sociopath smear campaign” along with “narcissist triangulation” and “sociopath triangulation”

such a crazy world…who knew all of this craziness ever existed until you get caught in their web of deception 🙁

The book Women who love psychopath by Sandra Brown gives great detail of the manipulation these evil people do to their victims.

Sad that you cant have a relationship with your son because of your daughter in law…she sounds like a complete nightmare and you did exactly what you had to do to have peace in your life = go no contact…hopefully one day your son with do the same with her.

It pains me to read your letter. You know everything you need to know to consider yourself done with this clown. You don’t need a diagnosis to make his transgressions credible… And, too often, making a diagnosis distracts from the point of what you, yourself, will have or reject in your life.
You describe a 60 year old man who has time and interest in schmoozing women on the Internet (ugh!), who is satisfied with an email/texting/phone “relationship” (That’s not a relationship), who hooks up with a gal half his age (Like they have much in common?)and at 60 yrs claims to be doing the bidding of his love interest’s family and is “confused” by his heart’s desires.
The relevant question is only: Will you have this man in your life or not? Would a diagnosis add anything more to how unappealing he sounds?
BTW: He’s likely married, been married for a long time. That’s why you didn’t see him for many months. And he’s not describing a 30 year old “love interest” to you but rather his wife. Sixty year old horny toads would find any 30 year old appealing.

Viewpoint thanks so much
Yes 60 years old and met this “woman/wife” while in another foreign country working
First of all I don’t believe that…knowing his past relationships with online women I am sure he met her that way and went to this country to see her…not work like he told me. I have caught him in so many other lies its not funny…mostly pertaining to women online. Once he was in this foreign country doing “work” he also told me he met her friend and the three of them had business to do in another city and the friend made a pass at him and he almost slept with her behind the gf back but “it”
Didn’t happen though everything else did without the gf knowing…and he is telling me this as tho I’m supposed
To be proud of him!!
Like you are thinking…what is a 60 year old man doing searching out foreign girls who are half his age and here we are a year later and he is claiming he loves her
Oh yeh…during last year when he “met” her up until now…he has visited me three times and telling me he has no intention of being with her, didn’t love her, he spoke so badly about her physical appearance and her family, but yet he felt he had to go there to be with at this point…telling me she is planning a marraige and soon and doesn’t know what to do…
Sounds to me like he was pretending to be uncertain of what he was doing yet all along he didn’t hate her like he said. Of course she knows nothing of me…he comes from a very confused background where he says his mother sexually abused him before 10 And committed suicide when he was 12. I told him something is missing in his life to behave the way he does at this age…thanks for letting me vent it really helps 🙂

Janedoe, he sounds TO ME, like a player at the very least, unstable and probably someone who should be left alone. There is a strong possibility he is Sociopathic but maybe some other psychiatric Dx would fit him as well. Having been through what I’ve been through, I personally would R U N! I’m sorry your heart has been broken.

Thanks dorothy2 for getting back to me
He could never be left alone…I think that’s his fear. He has moved on to another country, and I mean very very far away, left everything he had to be with this girl (who he has met one time a year ago) and family to marry her. He is even older than her parents are and I told him he should be ashamed Of himself for acting this way. The promises he has made since his decision to go there are so stupid he doesn’t realize how Stupid he sounds..telling me I am much more intuitive than she is and she won’t find out about him coming to see me…
If that were even true…why haven’t I heard from him in two weeks since he is there as he promised and we had spoken several times a day every day…I think he believes himself and what he tells others. It has made me quite nauseous and sick
To my stomach when I think of his next predator.
I am extremely proud of myself though as I had written him (one time in the two weeks) last week asking why he hasn’t been in contact…no response…and I didn’t even write back a second time…I think it’s better this way. But I do feel he will be in contact and I can’t wait to ignore him or tell him
Off because he thinks nobody figures
Out his motives
Thanks again 🙂

You mention you have been through the same? If you don’t mind me asking..what happened?

Janedoe, I really wish I could put it all down again but I can’t. Short version is that I was lied to and deceived about who the man I thought I was going to spend the rest of my life with really was on every conceivable level and got my heart broken in a way that I didn’t even think was possible.
I don’t mind you asking at all, I just have typed the details out in so many formats and web sites that it’s too difficult to put into words again.
this guy you are asking about deserves no further contact. you certainly can believe that……he is dripping in warning signs. You will either drop him like a hot rock or if you can not, pay the price down the road. no judgement from me about which path you end up taking because I know how hard they can make it to leave them.

Hi dorothy2
I will try not to ask many questions cause yes i know we say it so many times but did you say it was an online meeting or someone you met physically?
Did he leave you or you leave him? Had you found he lied and caught him? Was he cheating/double life?
I’m sorry if I am intruding and no need to answer what you do not want to. Thanks 🙂

JaneDoe, I met him physically, not on line. It’s hard to say who left who at this point. I was being played, toyed with and I guess wouldn’t die. I think many things were lies that I never caught till after it was over and many thing during that I did not understand. I loved him more than I could ever describe to anyone who is not in my head or heart and I now know I loved a total manipulative opportunistic POS. I’m sure he was cheating though I have no proof of that just a gut feeling because of his MO.
I’m sure that in spite of what I know and what I’ve been told about him after the fact that there is an endless laundry list if crap I don’t know and probably never know. I know enough. I wish he knew what a lot of people think and say about him. Apparently love IS blind because I was stunned to hear some of the things, the perceptions, others people have told me.

Jan7
My gut at this point is about 75% feeling he has some real issues
Because this is all new to me (not the flirting with other women and who knows what else…but this marriage) I’m trying to convince myself this is not normal behavior and I have told him so. Funny though when I have written him explaining how I find what he has done in the past by flirting with women snd going on singles sites and what he is doing now is so relative to each other, he never has defended himself one time, almost as though he can’t be bothered with what I say…like he is too excited or preoccupied with this other woman and who cares what I have to say.
Although there were definite warning signs from almost the beginning I pushed them under the carpet because is stressed me too much to think about it and his nice words were more appealing so I ignored it all
I don’t say he didn’t mean any of what he told me but as time goes on and I get some perspective on this situation my gut says “he isn’t normal”

Ps sorry to start a new post, I couldn’t reply to your last question, there wasn’t a “reply”

Follow your Gut it will NEVER steer you in the wrong direction.

I too see a lot of RED FLAGS with this guy…I think you seriously need to open your mind to the fact he is not a healthy minded individual and cut your losses now before you waste anymore of your time with him.

Your gut in the beginning told you who he really was. I would highly recommend that you read everything at the top of this site more then once so it sinks into your mind and also watch the videos.

Personally I think this guy has been married all along and now is just telling you he just got married. something is fishy with everything he tells you. A man that lies over and over and over can not be trusted ever and you have to ask yourself Why am I wasting my time and energy on a bad guy?

I agree with you about him being married this whole time. I have to say that he moves very quickly when he does meet someone as he did with me.
When he told me he met her last summer he actually told me that they had to go away together for work, and on this trip they solidified their love…plus he’d told me he also while they were away, another female colleague was attracted to him and he snuck away to be with her too…all at the same time he claims they were solidifying their love?? Yeh…ok. How stupid does he think I am and why the hell is he telling me he was with the colleague..wouldn’t most people
Say nothing about doing something like that??
Once that contract was over and he returned home, the communication with his “new wife” continued but he claims it was all her pursuing him…
So yes jan7 I sometimes have myself convinced he would do something that impulsive and marry her last year and now perhaps has only gotten the chance to get back out there to be with her…when I write this I can’t believe how unreal this sounds

Janedoe,

How does this guy make you feel emotionally and mentally?

Do you find your mind going over and over what he has told you to sort out the truth from his lies?

Does your mind race?

Is your blood pressure high now compared to before you met him? Do you now have health issues from the stress. Do you feel stressed out, have anxiety, depression, panic attacks since starting this relationship with this guy?

Does he repeat stories over and over?

Hi jan7
Well…up until approx a month ago my mind was overtaken by his sweetness and kindness. Like I always thought though way way back in my mind were things that bothered me BUT as long as I was getting the attention I put those thoughts on “hold”. Once in a while they would surface and they would bother me but the cycle
Of his kindness and sweetness would stop those thoughts.
My health hasn’t declined but I absolutely have had anxiety and stress due to this relationship
The past two weeks is the very longest he has ever gone without contacting me at all because he is with her. I don’t know it will last but before he left he reassured me I, along with this other woman, were number one to him…
All negative feelings have been going through my head since then.

I can’t say he repeats his stories though…is that a sign of something?

Janedoe, sociopaths know exactly how to keep a victims hooked = by using sweet words and gifts. This goes back to the initial love bombing stage that trains the victims to expect nice words/gifts from them and we in our brains get natural high from this attention…then if we are ready to leave and they know this will turn on the love bombing stage again then go back to their old way…they have conditioned their victims exactly the same way an animal is trained with food treats.

This is the cycle of abuse….tension building stage, abuse stage, then love bombing stage then the cycle begins again over and over each time the love bombing stage gets shorter and shorter.

This theory of “participation” negates all that is known about psychological manipulation. All of it. And there is a lot known about psychological manipulation.

Look at it this way: If you now feel you should have known better and should have acted differently, why didn’t you???

“Believing what we want to believe” is a grossly incorrect description of the way our human minds are wired to work on a subconscious level. And the con artist — be it psychopath, sociopath or whatever — is a student of human nature who uses and exploits it to his or her full advantage.

Because of the way we’re wired, we are *subconsciously* tied to our first impression (the false one they present to us), and so we think everything really is what it appears to be. Because of this, when we get a fact that doesn’t quite fit the picture, we force it to fit.

This theory of participation is contrary to what is known in basic psychology and neuroscience, and it’s a dangerous one. It not only blames the victim, but renders us powerless to react to it in the future. Why? Because another powerful (and *subconscious*) bias wired into our brains and that makes us more likely to fall for a con is the “optimism bias.” This is our tendency to overestimate the likelihood that good things will happen to us and underestimate the potential for negative events. Cons exploit this tendency by making good things happen — at first. *After that, we believe anything they do* and not “what we want to believe.”

Unfortunately, if you believe you should have known better, if you believe you just need to “listen to your intiution” next time to avoid the same fate, you will be at great risk of becoming a victim again. If you believe those things you will suffer from overconfidence due to thinking you know more than you actually do, basing your conviction on the inflated importance of what is really false knowledge. If you think “I just believed what I wanted to believe, therefore I participated (I was at fault)”, you’ve done nothing to protect yourself. In order to protect yourself, you need knowledge of the facts of how psychological manipulation works.

This theory of “participation” is not based on any facts. It is one that blames the victim and does nothing to help them in the future.

Agreed LadyLisa,,,,,,,,I have read and heard in several places that your intuition CAN be faulty. How many times have you said to yourself…..”I have a git feeling about this or a gut feeling about that” and been wrong?? LOL! Also, your intuition or instincts MAY tell you (or not) that something may be off, or may be a concern but if you don’t KNOW about these types, you don’t really know how to interpret what you are seeing or feeling. Defending yourself against these a**hat DUFU’s takes not only instincts but intellectual knowledge of their existence that I certainly did not have. Not to mention that I was never making an informed decision about ANYthing in regards to my involvement with him because he lied by omission from day one.

Did you ever notice any friends or family questioning things about him that they find odd?
I found when I had a gut feeling about something, and someone else brought it up something they find odd, then that’s a reason to act on our gut feeling and think we are possibly correct in what we think
I know from the beginning i questioned a few things and when a family member would ask something they found odd, I tended to defend and then later on thought to myself “hmm what made him ask me that question, when I kind of think the same”

Janedoe, we were so much by ourselves so no. some friends said a couple things jokingly but not until WAY down the line did anyone say anything seriously and it was way to late to turn the boat around before it hit the dock. I was in SO deep.

This is a great thread. I find that ‘now’- that I know about spaths- and have avoided direct involvement with them (intimately), I am able to see red flags in people I have casual contact with, and avoid further contact. I find that the niggling feelings I had when I encountered disordered individuals, before I understood personality disorders, are easier for me to pay attention to. These feelings, senses, allow me to quietly back away from the source. If the words and actions are out of sync in someone, I disengage. I find that I am not as confused by the lie buried in an otherwise truthful statement. It seems to stand out (more) now. I find myself saying ‘no’ if someone wants me to cross even the smallest line away from my sense of integrity. I find that I speak fewer off-hand ideas for the sake of being part of the group. I stay in MY truth, much more than I used to.

So I see that my previous ‘participation’ in toxic relationships came from an innocence that I no longer have. I am no longer NAIVE to manipulation tactics, and the subsequent feelings and reactions I have to them. I have awakened to these truths, and now the acts are evident to me. I possess something beyond innocence, that is of much greater service to me.

There is no shame or blame in innocence. And we can be innocent for many years into our adulthoods. Lots of cultural,familial, and maybe some biological factors play into our innocence.

Violations shatter innocence. This can lead to knowledge and awareness. Once awake to a truth, and a body of knowledge, we have personal power. Power we didn’t have when we were innocent.

Violation and betrayal is not pleasant or good…but if we can make it far enough along our healing path to arrive at knowledge and awareness we have arrived at a good place. There is NO blame or shame in this journey.

Slim

Thanks jan7
You mentioned when we get ready to leave they do the love bombing..but it was him who told me I meant the world to him and nobody ever has been as special as me blah blah but he is leavin me for someone else and doesn’t know if he is making the proper decision. Yet he packed himself up and moved to another country two weeks ago. Told me he still wanted me but had to do this move. I haven’t heard since. I wrote one time with no response so I stopped writing. But he ended things with me…how does that connect to sociopathic behavior and the love bombing? I’m back and forth with this in my head an am trying to convince myself he is in fact poison!

Janedoe, yes he still loved bombed you with his words before he left you by saying he does not know if he is making the “proper decision”, he did this to keep you hooked just incase his new victim sees his mask slip and dumps him for his abusive ways. Sociopaths always go back to their past victims because past victims will take them back and accept their abusive ways so they keep the past victims on the hook.

This is why it is so important to follow the no contact rule, it is also important to follow that rule so that you break the strong emotional bond that the sociopath has over you. You are addicted to this guy just like someone who is addicted to drugs/alcohol. This guy conditioned to expect “sweet” words even though he treats you horrible the bulk of the time. The “sweet”words are your addiction source, you crave them and will wade through his abusive ways to get his “sweet words”.

I would highly recommend that you find a counselor who is extremely knowledge with narcissist abuse and go. (your local abuse center may have a recommendation)

This guy is beyond poison he is down right dangerous for your mental, emotional and physical well being. PLEASE go up to the top of lovefraud and watch all the videos and read everything at under each and every tab up there over and over until your mind opens up to the truth that this guy is a sociopath or a con artist.

Thanks jan7 your words alone makes much sense. I’m trying to get to the links you suggested. I’m on an iPhone and I don’t think I see where the videos are. I see a “navigate” button an under that I see blogs…do I choose from there?
I’m sorry i am new to this site and not sure what is what yet..

no worries….if you look at the very top of this site you will see a long red bar that goes from the right side all the way to the very left side under that there is a gray bar that does the same thing.

on the red bar you will see the words “home”. “Beware of socipaths”. “Are you a target” “Videos” etc etc then the gray bar has tabs “Blog”. “author”. “cases” etc etc….

Click on each of those words then you will see a drop down menu with each…read everything up in that section of Lovefraud and then as you move across the red bar you will see “video” click on that then you will see about 10 to 12 videos that Donna has made.. watch each video.

All of this will help you to open your mind up to his manipulation tactics. Keep reading everything at the top over and over to get it to sink into your mind it will help you to dump this evil guy once and for good.

Haven’t been on here in awhile but this topic is hitting close to home for me right now.

Janedoe, sounds like you are in the discard phase of the 3 Ds Paths use when they are moving on from the last victim to the next. Devalue, Dismiss and Discard. Google for more info and read, read, read everything that Jan7 and others have suggested to you. Please stop fixating on his new victim and realize she is the latest in a string of probably many, many women (he is 60) that he has done this to and gotten wrapped into the deception. He only told you about her to ignite insecurity in you and get you fixated and focused on HER instead of all the gaslighting and confusion, plus evasive behaviors, that you’ve described he exhibits. I agree with everyone else that you go NO CONTACT with him to cut off the emotional ties and give yourself a chance to let the fog clear. You can heal and move on but you have to stop believing in a lie that you will somehow ever be in a healthy and happy relationship with him. Start meditating and saying positive affirmations again and again, so you know you are worth more than what you’ve gotten from him. Love is not hurtful and deceptive in this way.

My ex H was also a victim of sexual abuse by a psychopathic stepfather who is very similar to Jerry Sandusky, as he had the trust and faith of many mothers to mentor their boys. All of them have gone to jail, committed suicide or have an extreme substance abuse problem. He has never been caught for what he did and is still controlling the lives of many, many people around him. I fell for the pity play (which you can also Google) when I first met my ex because of my own need to repress my own sexual abuse. For years, I suggested therapy and bought books to try and help him with his issues stemming from the abuse, ignoring my own. My projections were constant and didn’t help him get help. If anything, they pushed him away because he didn’t want the help. My point is this man you are involved with will only face his past issues when and if he’s ready. You can’t do it for him and you can’t be his therapist and his lover.

My current crises with love and belief systems around disordered individuals involves my DD . It’s crazy but she isco-dependently involved with very controlling and narcissistic boy. My DD has virtually ignored all of my pleas and demands for her to back away from her teen BF who consistently creates chaos and drama in her life. His divorced parents know he’s a problem but they are too busy fighting with one another to help him take responsibility for his actions. He and his mom have a very weird, co-dependent relationship that my DD has even commented on but his constant lovebombing keeps her from seeing it as a red flag. She says he acts like he can’t stand his mom, which we all know is also a red flag.

Main issue with this kid is he is always crossing boundaries I have enforced as a single mom. When they were forbidden by me and his parents to date last year after ANOTHER incident of him crossing a boundary (hounding her when she was on a school trip, calling her drunk and checking her flights on the web to see if she landed and why hadn’t she texted him yet. I saw all of the texts and told him he was creating anxiety for my DD. Dad said I was out of line to approach his son, so I said fine tell your son to leave my DD alone.) they hooked up in both of our houses. I found out by innocently looking over DD’s shoulder one night and seeing sexual photos on a Tumblr page. I was devastated bc me and DD are very close and I had no idea she was still so involved with him. They are both the stars of their drama dept in high school and obviously skilled actors. Both his parents and I were shocked when I revealed that had been sleeping together or 7 months.

Now, I know my daughter is head over heels because he is her first everything… kiss, bf, lover. She has graduated and we all allowed them to go to prom together bc I was using the tactic to keep your enemies close and really try to see what is going on with this boy. There are too many instances of how he has created problems for her to write here but the last one involved a huge scandal with her beloved drama teacher who now hates my daughter and barely looked at her at the awards ceremony. Trust me when I tell you my DD was not culpable but who do you think was also at the center of the drama- yep, her bf. Supposedly, my DD and another star student betrayed the teacher (who also seems either bipolar or highly disordered after this crazy situation) by not choosing her bf and another girl for the leadership positions next year. I directly asked the bf if he wanted the role waaay before that happened and he told me no. In my last convo with the teacher she said he did want it and was hurt that my DD didn’t choose him. He is always the common denominator in any problem my DD rarely has with anyone, including an ex-friend he befriended via social media.

I’m at my wit’s end even though she’s going to a university far away. I feel like he’s going to stalk her to keep that bond. My DD is very sweet and even a little shy when not on stage. She feels so connected to him and blew up at me yesterday when I suggested she let that go and focus on starting college. I took her phone away as discipline for something and that kid had the nerve to text ME at 10 pm asking if she’s okay because he was away at a camp and hadn’t heard from her all day. He wasn’t even respectful and just sent “Is she okay?” like he’s talking to peer or something. He knows my DD is with her family so what could he do anyway so far away? Constant lovebombing and saying how perfect she is and how lucky he is to have her every single day just to keep her hooked. I’m pissed but my DD thinks I don’t like him for other reasons. I am going to sit her down and show her lovefraud videos and the gaslighting questionnaire.

It’s so hard as a mom to see my DD get duped like this by a teen who I know is very close to being abusive. He even admitted to me he gets very angry and doesn’t know how to calm down. During a lunch, he looked right at me with steely blue eyes and said “but I would never hit her or anything.” DD just sat quiet and I was shocked until I said of course not or I would call the police and you would face consequences. He didn’t flinch. My DD said he was nervous and I intimidated him. Didn’t feel like, and, in fact, I feel like he acts too casual toward me(dismissive) like he is a man and I’m just a single mom with no power. I wish I had a guy friend or family member to talk to him but I don’t.

DD’s dad died 6 years ago and I suspect this is why she is so attracted to this aggressive and take-charge personality in this boy. He has lots of girls swarming around him and even D admitted this gets under her skin. I asked her why doesn’t she just call or get all of the girls together and ask if he is involved with them but she even admits they may lie for him!!! That’s the power he holds over these people in his world. I may seem overbearing and protective but I’ve been through hell and back with a P father, currently in prison for LWOP, and my aforementioned ex H. I pray and trust God removes this kid from our lives with minimal fall out.

IMTMR74

Yeh that’s some story and its
Sad when it happens to our children more so than us. With us we see no reasoning and need others to point out what’s happening to us and we arent thinking straight until it just suddenly hits us one day and we wake up, but when it’s our children we are wise enough to notice this unnatural behavior in their peers.
That bf is in every negative situation that your daughter is involved in? That clearly is a sign that he must be the mastermind of all the negativity that happens
Being her first bf she is blinded by love and doesn’t see the negative side. But by what you’re saying she already has a few “gut feelings” that will stay in the back
Of her mind for now and will resurface when something between them gets really bad. Those gut feelings will pop up and in her mind she may connect them to what she sees happening in another episode down the road. It may take time because she’s young and isn’t experienced but it sure
Will be a great learning experience for her down the road. And not that these relationships shd happen to anyone but thankfully she is young enough and will learn and has people to guide her for the future. As we get older we don’t use
The guidance as much as we should because we are adults and sometimes can be more work to get over someone…
It’s tough but it helps listening to others unfortunate stories to help us
Get perspective on things
As far as me and this man I have had no contact since right up to the time her boarded his plane to see her..and that was filled with promises to me. I waited and never heard once he got there…I emailed one time a week after he got there and asked what was going on (I hadn’t come to the factThat he was sociopathic at this point). He never responded and though I have an email just waiting to be sent to him I have it here and have not sent it. So as of now it’s been two weeks no contact. Now this is a man who responded within half hour of sending him a message over the past three years…he would never leave anyone dangling or unanswered so by him
Not responding to my message after a week of him being there, tells me “something is up” and all my gut feelings from the past started resurfacing and I am
Now trying to get a hold on things
I think for me it’s better I don’t send the second message, he probably wonders why I have only sent the one, because normally I would have absolutely sent one or two more on his whereabouts at this point..anyone would. Besides I don’t think it may be wise to feed him with questions giving him more opportunity to
Lie, which is probably what he is waiting for

I hope things work out
For your daughter sooner than later

janedoe, the truth of the matter for you or anyone else at this stage is this,,,,,you will end up either chasing him away or leaving. I don’t mean Chasing him away in the way it would normally be used but he has set the stage for you to become increasingly confused and insecure and often clingy. They LOVE to be chased by the woman they have devalued and are in the process of discarding. The set it up that way and it is truly sick. They will give you just enough rope to hang yourself and just enough false hope to keep you fixated on them and when they are not doing that, they will continually pull the rug out from under your hopeful little feet. picture a YoYo and you will understand.
It sounds like this guy is playing with you like a cat plays with a fatally wounded mouse, still batting it to see if it’s alive.
Please start to pull yourself back if you can and go no contact. Initiate nothing and watch what happens. If you no longer play the game piece he wants you to, he will get bored with the game and move on to a new target.

He left two weeks ago, I contacted him after one week and heard nothing from him…I haven’t written back yet and he knows me better and thinks “why hasn’t she written each day to ask what’s up”
So it’s actually been two weeks no speaking and one week NC on my part

well hang in there Janedoe…..just knuckle down. It sucks, no way around it though. Good for you on the NC, VERY good. You must know that if he care about you the real way a MAN in love cares about a woman, this whole story would not be the one you have told us.

Dear IMTMR74
You do know that statement “but I would never hit her or anything” is what poker players call a “tell”. Nobody says such a statement if it were true. They only say it as a LIE.

He has HIT her. I guarantee it.

She may be going far away to university but I also guarantee he is going to have even more control over her because you won’t be there to interfere with him.

What you write is a serious situation. I believe in God but prayers and trust will not be enough. You must seek help, education, assistance from a teen abuse center, or specialist in this area. Otherwise, she is alone and abandoned to be completely controlled and severely abused by a sociopath predator.

Ugh yeh I know what you mean.
People thought it so strange when I would talk about my new love…they would ask me things like “he is already saying I love you after one week? And you haven’t even met in person yet?”
Ha funny because that was my very first gut feeling I thought was weird but pushed it aside. So if I’m thinking something is weird in my mind and friends are noticing it and saying its weird…I should have connected the two
When he told me after meeting his younger woman/wife that he was in love with her and told her after one week I said to him “you are so stupid how do you even know after one week you love her and want to have her baby?” Omg all this coming from someone 10 years older than myself and someone who should have had more
Wisdom…the things he was telling me were the exact same things he said to me at the beginning but I fell for it too…I just hope now that he lives with her family they can figure him out..I doubt it if they’ve already accepted him into their home he’s most probably fooled them too…

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