After being physically, mentally, and emotionally abused by sociopathic parents, I often wondered when the trauma would stop.
Would it get better as they aged?
Or would I be relentlessly tormented until they passed away?
The answer: neither. After their passing, their legacy continued to haunt me.
My father was the violent, malevolent sociopath. Yet, my mother caused by far more pain. You see, my mother was a master of deceit. If you offended her (or worse, threatened to expose her), she would effortlessly spin webs of lies around you. Incite her anger, and suddenly you are Alice in Wonderland – sucked into her rabbit hole where nothing is at it seems, wondering what just happened to you.
Sadly, many people experienced her wrath. I used to get phone calls from some of her targets who feared losing their jobs because of her lies. “What did we do wrong?”, they would ask me.
No one understood that helpless feeling better than those of us at ground zero: her children.
Out of all five of us kids, I was probably tormented the most. This is because my older siblings detached from her early on. As adults, they protected themselves by setting up strict boundaries with her.
I, however, was the “softie.” Sociopaths LOVE compassionate people. They FEED off of them. I didn’t know this then.
Perhaps the biggest wake-up call for me came after mom passed away.
The senior center where mom lived had a luncheon in her “honor.” My siblings, feeling very guarded, declined to attend. Then there was me. The Softie. I will go, I said. I also brought beverages and offered to help serve.
Again, my siblings were rightfully wary. Unbeknownst to me, mom had convinced her “friends” that her kids – especially me – were evil and abusive to her. Her “friends” took turns at the microphone expressing their admiration for her after “all her kids put her through.” The stories that came out of their mouths would’ve made Stephen King proud.
I calmly went to the bathroom, sat in the stall, and silently cried my eyes out. I then composed myself and went to the kitchen to help serve the people who just slandered my siblings and I. At best, I received cold stares. At worst, I received comments like “I hope you’re happy now – your mom is dead.”
Why did I stay? Because if I’d walked out (or given them a piece of my mind), mom would win again. It was almost as if she was still there, taunting me: Do it! Get angry! Show them what a rotten little daughter you are…..
That was easily one of the most painful days of my life. Public humiliation and mom’s evilness aside, I still mourned. I mourned the loss of the lady who gave birth to me. And I mourned the fact that, on that day, I realized that I never really had a mom at all.
Bally, thinking about forgiveness, what I was referring to is for anyone who is having a hard time letting go of anger. If you can let go of anger and be at peace with someone, to me that is a reasonable facsimile of forgiveness. I don’t particularly feel any warm feeling in my heart toward the sociopath. I don’t recall a time where I ever “forgave” him. I did come to accept what he was and stop taking it personally. I cannot say that I “love” him or wish him well.
With my parents, when I forgave them, I did feel love for them. With them, I felt that there was *some* genuine love on their part mixed with the abuse. It wasn’t black or white. Just the fact that my mother left her estate to my sister and me when she could have spent it all before she died was a sign of some caring toward us.
For a long time I wondered if perhaps the sociopathic guy I dated maybe had *some* love for me, too. Shortly after I left him, that question haunted me for a long time. I was hoping against hope that he did love me in some small way. I never really answered the question. Instead, I just lost interest and moved on. My parents were easy to figure out. The spath I dated remains an enigma. I had never seen that manifestation of disorder before – the no shows and game playing were new to me. I finally decided whatever his variety of sickness was was not something I needed to understand. I just needed to get away and stay away.
Thanks for clarifying Stargazer. Yes your mum loved you just not the way you needed to be loved and how you understand love. She did at least do the right thing by her children when she died.
Spath – you are a wise woman and made a wise decision to get away from him. I don’t believe their feelings go as deep as love. When I was being love-bombed it felt like love but it wasn’t real as he was doing it to others behind my back at the same time. They can get obsessed, as mine did, and get a bit attached. But they don’t feel love. I wouldn’t want a psychopath to love me anyway!
Bally, it would not have changed my feelings if my mom had left us nothing. I was actually very surprised to get the inheritance. Ironically, it has turned out to be more of a headache than a blessing because I don’t know what to do with the money. It’s not enough to be really life-changing, so figuring out what to do with it has been stressful. It’s kind of ironic that every time I’ve been in a position to buy a property, I’m priced out of the market.
No, the sociopath I dated for the short time was very very different from my mother. Different kind of disorder and one I would never even venture to try and understand. As he was professing love after only a few weeks, I think what Donna said in the other article was true – “I love you” meant “I want to have sex with you.” I don’t think they know the difference. They don’t understand what love is. Of the two, my mother was much more human and relatable. The forgiveness I have for him is more like detachment.
Wouldn’t it be wonderful if they were easier to spot? I havent’ been on here in a long time, but hoping some of my LF buddies can help me…here goes….I have not had contact with either of my sociopathic daughters..(one step,one bio) in 2 1/2 years. So I went from having 5 little grand daughters under the age of 10 to NONE..one moved across the country, another is still in town but will not let her children be around me. The reason is that she showed up here 2 1/2 years ago with her new lover…and I told her not to come back when I was home…well, she has waged this “apology tour” all this time because she wants to sit ME down and discuss my behavior. She is a whore that has wrecked homes, destroyed the father of her children.(a wonderful sweet man)She had been married to him 10 years, and she shows up here with her boyfriend that she stole from his wife..I was furious.. My husband (her bio dad) took her side and let’s just say it’s been a living hell….I refuse to allow her to sit me down and give my a verbal spanking because of who she is…she makes my very skin crawl..in the past every time I had to be in the same room with her..I would have palpitations, adrenalin rush where I just wanted to RUN….even thinking about her makes my palms sweaty…I am a Christian and believe with all my heart that she is some kind of demon…most people that know her say the EXACT same thing…well, her father and I have since made up…although I still feel as if he threw me under the bus because he would rather have me mad at him than suffer her wrath…he has even admitted that to me…we have been married 33 years and I actually raised her from a small child…I knew early on there was something wrong with her, but he would just blow it off because he is extremely passive and buries his head in the sand..she would actually hit him in the face when she was a toddler and he would allow it…so in essence he helped create who she is today…now, here is my dilemma….just this past January we found out my husband has prostate cancer that has already spread to the bone..he is on treatment, but although he could still live for years if this treatment continues to work, he has become my number one priority..she is still calling him trying to bad mouth me and make EVERYTHING about HER….I just cannot believe she is still holding out even allowing those grandchildren to come visit him unless his wife (me) makes amends to her on HER terms…friends, I tell you to do that would be making a deal with the devil…it would be negotiating with an emotional terrorist…she has always used those children as pawns to get her way and I am refusing to play the game. She emotionally tortures the kid’s other set of grandparents too, but they take it so as to see the kids…however, I have decided that I will NOT live with her foot on my neck the rest of my life….but my husband is so very sad about all this…he is a broken man…he loves us both, but he always sides with her even though he knows and agrees with me that I am right about her…I am so torn…do I throw myself on her mercy so that he will have peace in these last days of his life…??? I do not want him to die a shell of a man because his family is in such distress. But then I have been so angry because he didn’t put me first when she was caught lying about me, etc. He continues even now to allow her to text him terrible things about me, and he never puts me first when it comes to all this. I feel that he should NOT allow her to try to turn him against me. He wants peace at ANY price and I am steadfast in my belief that you do NOT give in to pure evil..when you do it only escalates…I really have been happy to have her out of my life, but when I see his sad face it crushes my heart…then I wonder how will I live with myself after he’s gone if I don’t give in ??? I have sought counseling a few times and I can NEVER find anyone that seems to even know as much about sociopathy as I do!!! It’s like they just don’t get it….it’s like trying to explain color to a blind man….any advice will be welcomed..love you guys!
I do not post very often but read Love Fraud all the time and have plenty of experience with a psycopathic lover at one time, a Narcissitic Mother in law, and her wounded children, one of whom is my husband who has Aspergers, Bi Polar and Narcissism..why did I marry him? Because my own mother had conditioned me what to expect from others in life to some extent. I see that now. She suffered with Bi Polar and was Psychotic at periods in her life and she had puerperal Psychosis after the birth of both myself and my brother seven years after my birth. After a life of abuse I discovered that she left me for dead as a baby (but I survived) when she had puerperal psychosis and I never knew what she tried to do to my brother -maybe the same. my brother was fostered by my Aunty after Mum went away. Mum was away being cared for for the best part of a year and when she returned she didn’t remember me at all (due to ECT treatment) and my brother became her ‘only child’ for nearly all of her life and nothing I could do was right in her eyes. My mother made her peace with me when I left home and adopted a 8 month old daughter who has reactive attachment Disorder so she had severe conduct disorder when she was a teenager and still do now she has a young child. I trained in my 30’s to become a family counselor.
I am only mentioning the above info so that it doesn’t seem like I flew in out of the blue from nowhere ! I have been there, experienced the traumas and still suffer the consequences and maybe always will but I have made a major leap in being able to come to terms with these brain different, mentally unwell and Narcissistic and Psycopathic people in my life.
I have started to regard my mother (since she passed nearly 2 years ago) as a victim of mental illness which she was..but also all the mentally deranged and disturbed people who have been in my life as mentally unwell, which of course they are, or mentally disordered in cases where their brains are different, such as Psycopaths, and while I would still suggest that there is no way you can live happily and healthily alongside them constantly, I have to say that if there is one lesson I have learned it is to distance yourself but don’t be harsh on yourself..do whatever feels safe and comfortable..and the other thing I have learned is that if there is a person in your life who has needs that make them a priority, such as Creampuff’s husband with cancer then to keep at peace with ourselves, because we are eventually happy when those we love are happy, we may sometimes have to make concessions for them. I see creampuff that you are making your husband a priority due to his ill health and rightly so, and I fully see your difficulty with your step daughter but I am going to be bold and stick my neck out here and say that I feel that you are not really making your husband as much of a priority as you maybe feel, since in so many ways you are still allowing your step daughter to affect both your lives and sometimes we have to take a backward step to see an overall view of the situation. Your husband has not taken your side initially you mention and it has caused him a lot of distress..I would say it is time to have that talk with your step daughter and not to see it as a win – lose situation but just to stop it being a lose – lose situation which you seem to have at the moment. This child is your husband’s daughter and he is traumatised not only by his illness but by your actions against or even about his daughter.
You write ‘The reason is that she showed up here 2 1/2 years ago with her new lover”and I told her not to come back when I was home’ and this was the start of the issue and your reason was because you were upset (maybe rightly, I am not party to all the facts) that your daughter showed up with her boyfriend, having ditched her husband and children’s father if I am understanding the situation correctly? I can only see one solution that will bring any happiness for those you love, and that is to let your daughter make her own decisions about her life..she is a mother and has her own family..and her values may not be yours, but there seems to be nothing to be gained by creating a stand against her, when it upsets your sick husband and you no longer see the grandchildren etc..in this situation, if I understand it correctly, I feel that you yourself are the one who needs to open the gates and lead the way here and let your daughter and her father see each other without judgement from you. I am sure she will be whatever she is now and whether these decisions she makes about her life are good or bad, while your husband has cancer I cannot help but see that not making some concession on the part of your daughter so that she and her father can be in contact again, and so that the grandchildren come around again?. I suggest you open your heart and have that talk with your step daughter, if only for your husband’s sake? You said you were making him a priority then go on to say how you are actually making your own feelings the priority. Maybe this sounds harsh, but maybe now isn’t the time to be taking this stand..when your husband is so unwell with cancer, but you are best placed to really know what is tolerable in your situation though. I do wish you great strength and stamina for the road that lies ahead and I hope your husband does well in his illness. Take care and good luck..it is such a difficult situation 🙂
Creampuff, based on what you have shared, I would agree with Saysi. I would let your husband have a relationship with his daughter and set aside your judgments and resentment over how she lives her life. Of course if you feel unsafe, you could set limits, like asking them to meet outside of your home, etc., just limiting your conversations with her to business, etc., like you would do with someone you didn’t like but had to work with. I get the feeling you need to have some forgiveness toward her – not to invite her into your life, but just for your own peace. You cannot control everything everyone else does. That includes not being able to control your husband’s feelings toward his own daughter. Or her behaviors. Preventing her from seeing her father will not change her bad behaviors. But you can accept the situation and try to learn to just live with it. What are the alternatives? You can continue to fight with him over her and fight with her over him and feel guilty about it. Or you can go no contact with all of them. I don’t think you want either of those. So my advice to you is that since you can’t change them, change yourself.
Get her to him soon. Cancer that has spread to the bone is very painful. His death wish is to be made whole. It isn’t about you: It’s about what your love is willing to do for him.
Conduct yourself in accordance with what the love asks of you to do. And say (privately) to yourself: Of course! He deserves to be made whole and I deserve to see myself do a great act of love.
My mother left a hidden land mine for me to step on after she died: her therapy journal. (Mother only began therapy unwillingly in her late 70’s, a few years before she died.)
I now wish I hadn’t read it. Eventually I’ll get past it, but I’m still processing the fact that my mother wrote that she had *never even liked Babs.* At least she speculated (of herself) “I wondered if there was something wrong with me, aren’t mothers supposed to at least like their own children?”
But she never sought any therapy at the time, nothing. Her need to feel “perfect” was too overwhelming.
Her reason for hating me seemed logical to her; she wrote that I’d been a hateful, cold *and critical* infant. That I, her newborn had rejected her as a mother. So, that makes me think that my mother probably had post-partum depression or perhaps even post-partum psychosis, but because she already had borderline pd (with spathy overtones) she refused to consider the idea that this bizarre notion indicated that she might have had some kind of cognitive distortion/mental disorder. Nope. Instead, mother maintained that view of me for the rest of her life: I was the all-bad child.
I never had a chance.
What I’m trying to get over is my own level of self-deception, my own self-delusional belief that underneath it all my mother loved me. I guess I needed to believe it that badly, that it kept me attached to her for decades in spite of the chronic emotional abuse.
Like the author’s older siblings, but very late in my mother’s life, I finally realized that I couldn’t take it anymore and distanced myself.
Sometimes pulling away is the only option left, when one or both parents are not capable of loving their child. And yes, it does hurt even worse when the spathy parent IS able to show affection for their other offspring.
I wish there was an accurate but rapid test to diagnose psychopathy that would be freely availble, and easily accessed. I understand that the psychopathic brain is actually structured quite differently than non-spaths, so such a test would allow a person to know for sure if their lover, their fiance, their spouse or SO has this condition before they marry and/or have children. I think this would alleviate so much pain and suffering in the world.
Ugh!
The only silver lining I can see for you in this situation is that your perceptions weren’t distorted while growing up. There was something that was really wrong with the person you called “Mom”.
And she knew it. She knew it at some level episodically. That she didn’t seek help wasn’t/isn’t uncommon. It’s rare enough of people to get solid help for themselves and rarer still of anyone to get help for the greater good. So she was dishing herself big doses of guilt.
Have you ever seen anyone wear well “guilt” in real life? Bet you haven’t; except in movies. People become rather wretched for feeling guilt… They don’t even feel it for more than a New York minute because it morphs in them to blame, anger or avoidance. And does with a big dollop of self righteousnous to boot, as well. I’ve done it, you’ve done it because everyone has done guilt badly… Have you ever had a bad hair day and snapped at your child (who was doing nothing different than any other day)? Or known for a moment that you let someone down/failed an obligation? What did you really do with the split second guilt you felt?
I say this, not to excuse the woman who brought you into the world, but to explain the phenomena of what we won’t accept of ourselves. And guilt is something we don’t accept very well at all. Maybe that can be one of your useful “take aways” from what was a terrible and heartbreaking situation: That it’s the object of guilt that suffers for our guilt.
I hope that there was someone who witnessed her threadbare attachment and was your fairy godmother/godfather. I so hope this for you. I had one for me and, now, so many years later, I think it extraordinary of that fairy godfather to intervene and do so in without giving himself away. I owe him alot more than he could have ever understood: Through his ministrations, I didn’t just have a refuge, I had a greater understanding…especially about what love looks like.
Indeed, it is the most brutal haunting of all, to seem or be the one singled out for abuse… It becomes the proof that you were deserving of it somehow/someway. And you tagged with second guessing yourself for all time. Let this heartbreaking revelation be your parole from doubting yourself anymore: Because it’s the big proof that your perceptions are in full working order.
I did not see a name for the first comment about two sociopaths for parents but my heart bleeds for you. It has taken me awhile but I think my Dad may have been one. He did everything for himself while ‘love bombing’ others. He even used to say “I don’t care” about my feelings and thoughts.
Mom was diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Everything they did with us, their children, had a ‘let’s get this over with’.
My older sister had my parents to her home for Christmas one year…actually she invited my younger sister. My younger sister did not want to go so she joked about me going instead. Bad move. My older sister actually closed the door in my face when I arrived at her home and I drove all the way back home…to nothing and nobody.
How do you stay Christian amongst families like that? My family is beyond toxic. They are in such heavy denial that the vortex spins ever faster when with them, and the sanest thing becomes keeping away.
Barb, I handled it by just keeping a distance. I do not think we are obligated in any way to be around toxic family members or take care of elderly sociopathic parents. I found that I could still love my mother from a distance. Up close and personal, it didn’t work out so well after the first hour or two. Once it started becoming all about her and her constant need for attention, I felt depression coming on. Eventually, I just quit and limited our contact to brief phone calls. When she became manipulative on the phone, I stopped with the phone calls.
I had a very good therapist once whose mantra seemed to be “Why does that (anything) surprise you?” His question was to the point of why I would volunteer for another “kick in the teeth” experience or any other matter that would bring obvious pain. And this is a good question to ask yourself in any venture.
If putting yourself in a situation that is bound for some kind of torment, does strengthen you in some fashion… Go for it. But realize that martyrism does have that depressive, dark component. If you’d enjoy more a life that was lighter, then take heed of the obvious. I don’t think it’s your calling or life’s purpose to transcend all that is put forth that draws you down. In the case of the old folk’s home commemoration: By the fact that they were commemorating her meant that they thought something quite different of her than you knew. And, of course, she was going to sell that story to her peers there during her stay. (Presumably, hers was a long stay for the fact that they were commemorating her.) In short, there was no surprises here and that it should surprise you or throw you is something to recognize as a tenacious naivete that doesn’t serve you well. If you had let yourself anticipate the likelihood and made a decision one way or the other with eyes wide open, you’d be better protected.
I have a controversial opinion about “forgiveness bit”. It goes like this: Whatever is incomprehensible, is by it’s nature something you can’t wrap your head around much less act much upon. But it needs to be discharged to somewhere far away from your shoulders. And only you can do that, somehow/someway whether it’s through a Judeo Christian philosophy of forgiveness or something else. In other words, forgiveness isn’t the end all or be all but getting to a place where you know what happened had nothing to do with you is the key. I’ve coldly “hated” that which brought harm (especially to my children)and it not bred in me some kind of bitter life. And I think that is because I was resolute about it; ie, sought nothing more from the one who was incomprehensible… including answers. My opinion of the deed(s) done mattered, not the answer to the unanswerable.
I told my son once,who was writhing in the agony of a deserting father this: Every time it comes back to haunt you, I want you to give equal time to the question of what goes into someone doing greatness against all odds… because that’s nourishing and useful. Wondering forever why someone (anyone) would treat you deplorably has no answer that will bring something good to your life. Just because they had every reason to know better doesn’t make it more mysterious, it makes it just plain frightful. And end of story except for the lesson to get from the story: To stay clear of frightful things.
Great post, Viewpoint. I often use the word “forgiveness” as a catch-all to include detachment (not taking act personally), and acceptance of what happened without further questioning or continuing resentment. Whatever it is that helps us move on from a situation is useful and constructive. Sometimes bad things just happen and there is no obvious explanation. But we cannot base our happiness on people and things outside of ourselves behaving within acceptable parameters.
Babs…that breaks my heart. So sorry. 🙁 🙁
Thank You Viewpoint!!!
I especially LOVE the task you asked your son to accomplish….
I will use that for myself too!!! You are wise. And accurate in your advise to stay clear of wickedness.
To the children of sociopaths:
I am so sorry for what you have endured. My father was a pedo and my mother was a raging sadist… what I have concluded was a borderline. Sometimes early death of parents is a blessing. Mine died relatively young.
What I want to know, if it’s not too harming, is… if your parent wanted to make up for mistakes, is there anything that could make a difference for you, so you’d want her in your life?
I Love my grown adult daughter, but she has been excluding me out of her important life events all though her adolescent years, and had said horrid untrue accusations about me. When I wouldn’t agree that her accusations were true (she said her birthdays were ignored, that she had to raise herself, that she had to work for food, had to pay for her cell, her clothes, her car/gas,insurance/school expenses, etc. …things I can prove are not true. I have photos and the receipts… when I left my husband, I took all the bookkeeping records), she said I am toxic and she must go n/c with me. I am so heartsick to lose her out of my life, not just b/c I want to be connected to her, but also b/c I think, “what if she NEEDS me, and is in danger, and can’t find a way to contact me”. I worry about her and not knowing if she’s okay is excruciating. I know everyone’s experience is different and I know something must have happened that I don’t know about and that she won’t tell me. Otherwise, I can’t imagine the reason for her rage and anger, which seems to be getting worse over the years.
I had TERRIBLE parents and I didn’t treat them the way she is treating me. There MUST be a reason for her rejection, and if I could find a way for her to hear me, then maybe I could fix our disconnect. I cry and cry and maybe it sounds selfish but I thought if I did stuff with her, that she wouldn’t feel unwanted, easy to do because I loved her so. My mother was my anti-model. Whatever she did to make me feel “less than”, I did the opposite with my daughter. But seems she sees me as being like my awful parents, even though I never did to her what was done to me, and until my daughter is honest with me, I am unable to do anything about it. I don’t know what’s in her head, I can only guess b/c I don’t see that I did anything so bad, and certainly I NEVER did what she accuses me.
Stop invalidating her. Show respect. Get a mediator (whom you BOTH agree on).
Taketheredpill
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.
I read your reply and at first, I felt so sad. I love my baby. Her experience is her experience. I have never argued that, nor invalidated her experiences. That would be disrespectful to her as a human, and I would not do that.
Then I looked up the term of your name, what it meant. And that led to an epiphany and a link to solid advice to help my daughter. I want to shout joy, it’s something worth trying instead of crying and crying and feeling helpless. Thank you so much.
Notwhathesaidtome,
I admire your ability to look at your life through the perspective of others, consider their advice and to seek additional knowledge and to grow.
You really are doing well. I can hear the hope in your words. 🙂
Taketheredpill
Am update for you:
I found out my daughter is in serious trouble. There is a saying, ‘don’t cut off your nose to spite your face’.
She has smeared me so much to others that now, even though she is in trouble, there is no one to help her. They believe what she has said about me, and won’t tell me what I need to know to help her, and they don’t care about her so she is ALONE in a terrible world of addiction and bipolar disorder, in another country, where she is not one of them.
I was never disrespecting of her. She did that to herself. I was not invalidating. I honored her demands and that was the wrong thing to do. She used my honor for her against me.
That’s the thing about sociopaths. They set you up to harm yourself. It’s what my ex did to her. That’s his greatest “WIN”, to get his victim to sabotage themselves, and cut away all people who would care and support them.
Just wondering maybe your daugjter is also a spath, sounds like she makes it up since its not true. Do they run in families if so its how she gets HER WAY i know one thing you can fool ppl but attention. From ppl and hurys you because she cant use you for something. Spaths do that they widdle at your spirit till they get their way
My story is your story. Here is what i have learned: sociopathy or narcissism is set by the age of 3-4 years old. It is part of the “painbody” that gets created by the ego in order to feel important and in control of the life. You only mention that you left your husband, but I would bet good money he was as awful as your parents, (in a combined sort of way. A mix of the two of them). Trust your suffering. It really has a purpose. It is leading you to enlightenment. I know that sounds crazy, but it is. The best you tube video to describe this is Eckhart Tolle, the Secret of the Universe. But there are many others. All enlightened teachers are saying the same thing. The thing that I like about Eckhart Tolle, is how simple and digestible he made it. Maybe I was ready, but I got it right away. And my suffering, my psychological suffering, has stopped, (well, I do have to keep reminding myself to stay in the now, but I can shift when I want to!). Our suffering is a pathway to becoming enlightened. The ironic thing is that the people who suffer the most, the people who have been harmed by the very unconscious on the planet, are actually those that are on the leading edge. You don’t know that because no one told you! But it is true! Keep going! Keep looking for answers! Keep asking why????! The energy will build on itself and you will break free of your psychological suffering. There are many ways up the up the mountain. You have to find your way by keep asking why and looking for answers. Don’t give up. By figuring out about the patterns of narcissism and sociopathy, you are almost there. You now can see that most of humanity, the narcissists and sociopaths, suffer greatly and live in their own personal hell. Their treatment of us, the kind and the compassionate, asks that we join them there. Let it go. As long as you focus on the pain and the past, you make it your present moment. Acceptance is the key. Acceptance of all the truths, the unimaginable ugliness. Just accept that it is. In this moment. And it will set you free.
You INDEED need to stop invalidating your daughter. You clearly have made some egregious errors in her life. In fact, you ought not even discuss her need to go NC with you on here, please get counseling, please get help and respect her boundaries.
Natural Healer
Thank you for renewing this thread. It gives me a chance to update.
I don’t know who Natural Healer is speaking to because those particular accusations don’t belong to me, (except for the egregious error of being conned by a sociopath, but then… I had no awareness about sociopaths so it is not MY doing and not my shame but HIS DOING/HIS SHAME and it took me years to accept what he was and that nothing I did made him that way.)
But my convo about my past heartache is all around this post from Natural Healer so I am happy to share this. It is validation that healing from a devastating life with a sociopath, even for our vulnerable children, is possible.
Since the days when I lamented the pain of watching my daughter in pain and being impotent to help her, she has gotten help. I don’t know the details, that is her personal journey. But I do know she is back to the wonderful personality that is kind, caring, loving, appreciative, repsective of herself and others. WHEW!
I was so worried that the trauma that my sociopath ex did to her had stamped out her ability to discern appropriate/inappropriate. The acting out was out of control. But now, she is not self isolating, not on drugs (not sure this was ever the case, it just appeared that way), not drinking out of control, no longer suffering PTSD, is pursuing another degree, has a steady long term HEALTHY relationship, loves others, and speaks to me with good cheer and fun conversations, EVERY time. She is beautiful inside and out and I am so very pleased for her and so proud of her continued accomplishments.
YAY HAY!
Natural Healer, I find your words extremely harsh & unjust. Notwhathesaidofme is healing here at LF and LF is a support site not a “tear a person down” site. Please be kind.
Thank You Jan7, your words mean so much to me.
Although Natural Healer’s post does not apply to me, it did wound me because it was aimed right at my core pain in this sociopath saga… that I didn’t protect my precious vulnerable daughter from a sociopath and she suffered.
When I first married my ex, I let my daughter visit his mom. Because my own mom was an abuser, I was happy for my baby to finally have a grandma. But then the evil started. Unbeknownst to me, My MIL was yammering to my daughter, telling her terrible untrue things about me. My daughter acted out and finally told on her grandmother. My ex refused to tell his mom to stop. His mom did this behavior with all the children about their moms. Since my ex refused to take action and tell him mom to stop smearing me to my daughter, I stopped allowing his mom access to my daughter. I had NO CLUE that my ex was going behind my back and delivering my vulnerable to his mom anyway to continue her abuse unabated. NO CLUE BECAUSE I EXPECTED my husband to honor my decision about my daughter. I did NOT KNOW ABOUT SOCIOPATHS and their behaviors.
This is just one tiny example of how a SOCIOPATH and HIS SOCIOPATH mother/father/brother/and brother’s wife… ALL A NEST OF VIPERS… banded together to destroy me and do much damage to me by tearing apart my daughter’s emotional well being. They knew the way to hurt me the most was to harm my daughter, it’s the ultimate pain to a mom… to see our children hurt and be helpless to make it better. And because I didn’t know about SOCIOPATHS, I thought I just needed to improve my communication with my husband and all would be resolved. IF my marriage was normal with a normal man, that would have been true. But… as I found out too late, HE WAS A SOCIOPATH.
THESE SOCIOPATHS enlisted their many minions to do their destructive smear and emotional terrorism of me and my child. And then, of course, blame me.
The ONLY blame I have is 1) NOT KNOWING ABOUT SOCIOPATHS and 2) Trusting the conman who pretended to be a family man and a beloved community member. He was NEITHER. He rarely volunteered in the community and when he did, it was not to give, it was self-serving.
My daughter dealt with the sociopath hijacking of her world by shutting down, by attacking me. My therapist explained. She felt safe attacking the one person she knew would always love and forgive her. She did not feel safe attacking a SOCIOPATH and His SOCIOPATH mother/brother/and brother’s wife – his dad was actually a narcissist, not a sociopath….(but if the townspeople knew about a sociopath, they’d recognize their fire/gas marriage between a narcissist and a sociopath).
Natural Healer is a troll. I know that. I also know not to accept what a troll says. I will admit the words were wounding… However….
I can always call my daughter, have a cheery chat, and then call one of my many friends and go enjoy a meal out, sharing fun that has NOTHING to do with sociopathy and everything to do with decent respectable funny smart caring intelligent terrific women… kinda like all the decent respectable funny smart caring intelligent terrific women that I find here on LF.
Again, thank you Jan7.
Best regards,
NWHSOM,
ps. and nope, not what Natural Healer said of me either.
NotWhatHeSaidofMe,
I apologize, I do not mean to disrespect your conversation with Jan7.
I was searching for her and that post was the first one I found.
There is a new woman here and I know she has been very helpful to the new posts here.
SITC
SITC
You’re right about Jan7. No apology ever needed for being your kind compassionate self. See? You recognize in others what exists in you.
NWHSOM,
I have experienced the same treatment from my daughter.
Your statement from your therapist about your daughter feeling safe attacking you because she knew it was safe to do so unfortunately applies here too.
Her dad, my ex husband not the spath I have been writing about here just lost a 7 year struggle with the C monster and his last days were gut wrenching to watch.
Anyway we had been divorced since 2002 and became friends again, turns out he was a much better friend than husband because he did abuse me physically in front of my baby girl and was an alcoholic.
His family and mine are all crazy spaths, narcissists and all around crazies and as soon as this memorial service is over I plan to never see many of them ever again.
I have excused my daughters rude behavior towards me in the past because watching her daddy die(she was also one of his main care takers in the end) was enough horrifying events to last a life time but she and I will go into therapy when this is over if I have to drag her there myself.
The crazy train stop now.
I see her repeating some of my own bad behavior that I learned from mommy dearest that need to stop before she has children.
Her husband, married for one year is the most patient, kind, loyal, trustworthy and hard working man I have ever met.
Till the end, her dad died at home, her husband went to help the hospice people move and clean him when he was in terrible pain.
My daughter could not bear to see her daddy like that so her husband did it for her.
I know I am rambling here, he just passed Friday.
I certainly understand where you are coming from.
Wish we could have lunch!
Hugs to you,
Stronginthecity
NWHSOM,
P.S.
Not one of my family members has reached out to me to since my daughters dad died.
My sister who is a NURSE and makes 6 figures just a couple of weeks ago text my daughter in the evening when she was most likely drunk about a sewing machine she borrowed to her 5 years ago that never worked.
Mind you she, my sister,mother and father have not once ever called me or my daughter to see if she could possibly need a break or some family support.
NEVER.
My daughter replied to her that she would look for it and she was sorry she did not return it as she has moved 3 times and is taking care of her dying father.
My sister, who I was kinda ok with actually sent her a nasty text back and when I saw that I called her and told her that if she needs anything right now to go through me.
Her response, “I will never bother her again”…ok.
SITC
SITC
About your family, my family is awful. I “divorced” them when my daughter was very young. They were too willing to abuse her and expected her to just take it. One family member actually physically abused her and when I found out, I nearly went ballistic. The only thing that stopped me was that my daughter needed me. That was it for me, no more trying with my family… who are a bunch of low lifes… they don’t work, they just suck off the government dole, laughing at the rest of us for being so dumb as to give them money. Like my sister said, if they are dumb enough to give it, it would be stupid not to.
The sociopath that married also has a nest, a family with severe predators.
It’s either genetic or it’s drummed into them by sociopath parent. Either way, they are dangerous and to be intimately involved with them is to lose your soul.
I was lucky. I found my soul again, after years of limbo and nearly being murdered. That incident showed me that this soft spoken, charming, handsome, funny, intelligent man was capable of the ultimate evil, to deprive my child of more than a mother/daughter bond, but he would also end her mother’s life… not because of anything I did, but because he’d told others some lies and he had to cover himself or else they’d find out the truth about him. Above all my husband maintained his “IMAGE”. IMAGE was ALL to him. It represented what a WINNER he was.
Sidenote: I found friends who have become my family, they are my “sisters”, my kindred spirits and we are bonded. You can’t chose your family but you can find a better one.
Take good care of YOU, SITC, ALWAYS.
Jan7,
Hello there.
Can you please reach out to md23?
She posted under the lies and drama thread and I am scared for her.
You always offer such helpful and calming posts.
She is new here.
Thank you in advance.
Hugs to you,
SITC
Stronginthecity…thank you for this post. just wrote back to her. xx
Exactly. NotWhatHeSaidOfMe does what all sociopaths do: take zero responsibility. Not once has she lamented her catering of her daughter- only her daughter being horrible for wanting to go NC. PLEASE. The only downside to this site are the sociopaths who tell better stories than the victims. However, they show themselves in their comments.
CKC1977
Everything you wrote is of assumptions that were opposite of events.
My daughter was not horrible for wanting to go NC. Rather, how heartbreaking to me that she felt so unable to resolve our disconnect, heartbreaking b/c I wanted to fix things for her but I didn’t have the power. Yes, I contributed to her dysfunction b/c one thing I did was I took full responsibility for her bad behaviors… I did so b/c I’m the one who brought the monster into our lives, to mess with her head, to expose her to his toxic family who also helped him perpetrate parental alienation of affection. But telling her she wasn’t to blame for her choices did nothing to help her stop making those bad choices. I was enabling her, not helping at all, my guilt and feeling bad was crippling her. Excusing her was NOT healing her.
However, this past mistake has been rectified.
When I stopped taking responsibility for the choices she made, and there was a period of time where she participated in therapy, she started contacting me over a year ago and little bit by little bit, she matured so that now I have my daughter back, the personality who is so joyfilled and expressive and funny and brilliant. She’s so insightful about the tricks of sociopaths and their minions, and boy does she have a very good handle on the quirks of my ex and his family that took over our lives during those years we lived with my ex. She calls it for what it is.
She’s gone back to school, getting her masters, and bought a beautiful home with her sweetheart and adopted a couple of rescue dogs. They are living a life that every parent wants for their beloved child. Her sweetheart is a really great guy, emotionally healthy and FUN, just like she is. They make a great couple.
Life is SO wonderful!!! ….to know that my beautiful daughter has regained her sense of self, just as I had to, after those years in the valley of the shadow of death. B/c her life is healthy and loving and she’s excited about the future she is creating for herself, I am released from the angst, the guilt and pain of knowing I subjected my daughter to a monster and that she was emotionally trapped and I couldn’t find a way to get her out. Just like ME, she had to learn that a monster can damage us, but WE are responsible for healing what HE did to us.
CKC1977, I don’t know you and obviously from the awful assumptions you write, you don’t know me, but… if you are in a similar sociopath’s trap that she found herself in, I hope you find your way out of that nightmare, just as she and I did. When we all find our way THROUGH that dark place, JOY is on the other side. So much Joy that of course we wish the same JOY for everyone.