By | March 31, 2008 99 Comments

BOOK REVIEW: Legal Abuse Syndrome

“Victims are created in two ways: by violence or by deceit. Either type of assault immediately renders the victim hostage to the perpetrator.”

So begins the book Legal Abuse Syndrome, by Karin Huffer, MS, MFT. Lovefraud strongly recommends that anyone who has been victimized by a sociopath read this book, whether you have faced your perpetrator in court or not.

The book explains how people who have suffered injury at the hands of some type of predator often face further injury inflicted by lawyers and the courts, who can be, at best, disinterested, and at worst, corrupt. Legal Abuse Syndrome, Huffer says, is a form of post traumatic stress disorder caused by prolonged contact with the so-called “justice” system.

Along the way, however, the author answers many of the questions that those of us victimized by sociopaths have asked:

If I am the victim, why do I feel guilty?

Why can’t I share my devastation with my family and friends?

How can I recover from this assault?

Conscience-centered and power-centered

Huffer does not call the perpetrators of assault, and the complicit people in the legal bureaucracy, sociopaths or psychopaths. Rather, she describes everyone as fitting somewhere on a continuum of motivation between “conscience-centered” and “power-centered.” The extreme power-centered individuals, however, are clearly sociopaths.

Huffer writes:

Trust has usually left the conscience-centered vulnerable. If deception is to work, there have to be those who trust. Convergence of power-centered and conscience-centered people, in their purest forms, will inevitably result in the conscience-centered person being victimized. It is a marriage of deathly complementary value systems upon which the power-centered thrive. They literally tend a garden of trusting relationships while perpetrating hidden agendas.

Those who value truth, honesty, and a moral and ethical code make up the majority of people. These masses are the conscience-centered who collide head-on against a slick minority of individuals, the power-centered. PC’s pull out the “big guns” of moral turpitude for power motives, regardless of damage to others or society.

Of course, everyone on Lovefraud knows exactly what the author is talking about.

Eight steps to recovery

Even more important than describing the experience of the victim—”the kidnapping of the soul”—Karin Huffer offers a path to recovery.

  1. Debriefing: Writing down, in a particular format, exactly what happened.
  2. Grieving: A natural and healing reaction to the most profound loss—a loss of trust.
  3. Obsession: Figuring out what happened occupies a victim’s life.
  4. Blaming: Guilt, rage, anger and wrong need to be directed at the offender.
  5. Deshaming: Victims must get rid of inappropriate shame.
  6. Reframing: Reframe the experience with insights that empower and affirm the self.
  7. Empowerment: Taking ownership of the ravaged experience.
  8. Recovery: Emerging from victim as a veteran, with honed wisdom, courage and tools.

Huffer’s point is that it is possible to recover from the destruction inflicted by power-centered individuals, i.e., sociopaths, and grow as an individual. It is a message of hope.

Overcoming devastation

This book’s full title is Overcoming the Devastation of Legal Abuse Syndrome. It provides case studies of people who have been defrauded by criminals, lawyers and judges, often operating in cahoots. Only one case involved a typical Lovefraud story—a deceptive husband trying to cut his wife out of the marital assets. And it does offer advice for people who are in litigation with predators.

But I think the book could be called Overcoming the Devastation of a Sociopath. From cover to cover, it is filled with insight into what we have experienced, and how to come to terms with it. It is invaluable help for anyone who, after gross deception and injustice, trying to recover a sense of self.

Buy the book in the Lovefraud Store.

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Donna, thank you for this article.

I can relate to the 8 stages of Recovery, and am particularly happy that #3 is there, because it makes me feel more “normal’! Also I believe #2, Grief, is particularly crucial in healing, and am therefore including the link to Elisabeth Hubler-Ross’ 5 Stages of Grief, which is a very important sub-set of the Stages of Recovery above.

Ox Drover

Anyone who has dealt with the “justice system” I am sure can relate to this….it is anything BUT “just.”

When my mother was giving her assets left and right to the Ps and I hired a lawyer to try and stop this, because she was obviously not in her right mind (I have NO doubt that she was being drugged with benzodiazepines) the frustration I felt was immense. I spent all the funds I had available (without putting my own financial life at risk) for lawyers etc.

So many victims, especially women with x-husbands who are Ps, or who share children with them, I am sure will profit greatly by this book.


I am so looking forward to reading this book. I am about to deal with the justice system, and I can already tell there is not going to be “justice” involved. As far as I can tell so far, if I can somehow resolve the divorce settlement outside of court, I think I will be better off, unfortunately. I was hoping a judge would look at my husband and say, “You have been deceitful your entire marriage, have emotionally abused your wife, used her, manipulated her, coerced her into sacrificing her career and life for you… therefore, you deserve nothing.” Well, it’s not going to go that way at all, as my attorney tells me all these things don’t matter. The career sacrifices may come into play, but all the rest of the “moral” issues do not matter one bit. All of us on Lovefraud know that we are the victims of someone that intentionally targeted us. But, this has no bearing in a courtroom. The conscience-centered person has no chance against the power-centered in a court of law. A real pity. I look forward to fully reaching Step 8 – Recovery, and “emerging from victim as a veteran, with honed wisdom, courage and tools”. Unfortunately, I have a ways to go.


I can’t wait to read this book. I went through it already and probably know what the written words will be. I still would like the validation that others know. We know.

My attorney pretended to be a good guy, sold me out, whether he lied about the judge or the judge was in on it to, I have yet to find out. He was going through another divorce (how many wives?) when he represented me. Did his hatred for his soon to be ex filter on to me? Just guessing? This answer will eventually come my way. I’m sure of it (just another unanswered question of mine up in the air right now, floating around the universe), I don’t think my attorney is anti-social, I think he buckled under due to political pressure. I know my ex sold me out. Too many coincidences of what I told him and only him and then it came back to me at work. I thought my phone or my house was bugged. So all of them, my attorney, the judge who my attorney said refused to hear my case, threw my case out, I had to bring it to a higher court and then bring it back into the state I live), my ex, my bosses, their cronies are doing just fine. Went from one prestigious career to the next. Unbelievable. All their anti-social cronies or cronies that have no clue what they are really all about, brought them in and gave them a shiny new career. None of them missed a beat. But those of us who fought the fought, still aren’t gainfully employed. What a system! I pray that all of them get thumped on the head by God. I am praying for a miracle that they can finally feel some day with extensive therapy (bless the mental health professionals on having the patience of Job). I pray for all the new subordinates working under these folks today. They must be bouncing off the walls for being “newbies” … at the beginning of not knowing what is going on? Who they really are working for/with? Thank God for small favors that the head boss didn’t have children. My immediate boss does and I pray for those 2 children in my nightly prayers having a dad who can’t love them. My Mom and Dad loved all of us and it is the greatest foundation starting of who you eventually will be.

So, some day, if I’m pushing a shopping cart, honk your horn at that person who wouldn’t sell out. It just may be me.

Peace and all of God’s virtue to everyone. I’m taking deep, deep, deep breaths … going into the “now”.


How do I get my former marriage couselor to put something in writing as to my ex-husbands sociopathic behavior. She is the one who told me he is a Sociopath. Do I have to hire an attorney and have her supoened on my behalf? He has lied to law enforcement officials and used the judicial system to torture me. I want justice, but do not have the finances at this time.



I don’t know the answer to this question. I think she would have to be called as a witness. Otherwise, it’s patient confidentiality issues, isn’t it? I am not sure.

I would hate to have to fight a S/P in court because they don’t mind lieing under oath, to their Mama, to God, to anyone. They don’t care. And they believe their own lies, I think.

Good luck.


I would just ask her for a statement about your mental health, it’s easier to go into this stuff with a strong defense. Even if you can prove he’s an S.. unfortunately, it’s not illegal to be one.


As far as the justice system goes.. I’ll give you my two cents of hard-won wisdom:
1. Document everything
2. Expect the worst from them, because you’ll probably get it
3. Don’t play fair ball, because they won’t
4. Be calm, be confident, be prepared.


Yes, I do think they believe their own lies. That’s what makes mine so scary. His reality is a lie. Even in the face of cold hard logical facts, he still stands his ground.

After reading for weeks I feel better.
I would tell anyone here to start from the beginning and read everything forward.

Jim in Indiana USA

flyspeck-the lie thing, you’re right. You’re accused of doing things you’ve never done, saying things you never said. If she/he is thinking of having or having affair…you get accused (and smeared to others). Mirroring, projecting, gaslighting. Smear campaign…once they’ve told the lies…they believe them. Logic does not apply. Facts don’t apply. They get caught red-handed…lie…it’s your fault any way, right! Their reality and ours don’t “mesh” and they don’t care.

Glad you’re here. Sorry you felt the need. Good place to heal.

Ox Drover

Dear Fly,

Yes, I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU, I recommend to newcomers that they go back and read every ARTICLE here, the bloggs on some are so long that it would almost be impossible to read all the articles and the associated bloggs too, BUT the articles themselves, all of them, are GOLD for a “newbie”!

You are also SO RIGHT about them BEING THE LIE. The first episode of my P-son LYING WHEN CONFRONTED with the evidence was at age 11. I didn’t know THEN what it meant, but in retrospect, I know it was the first P-episode! Now he will lie when the truth would fit BETTER, and in the FACE OF EVIDENCE to the contrary.


It has been a great place for me. I have started from the beginning and read up to here. Have more to go.
But it has been a lifesaver for me. Literally.

But my question is……how do they ignore facts? How do they twist things around so weirdly and BELIEVE?

Jim in Indiana USA

flyspeck…it works for them…in their strange world.
And here we are, again, trying to make sense of it, trying to explain it…Donna’s article Feb 2nd, I think…the flaw in trying to view them with our normal eyes…it will never make sense…that’s why NO CONTACT is the only way, and the memories fade, too slowly.



“But my question is—how do they ignore facts? How do they twist things around so weirdly and BELIEVE?”

That is always the mind-boggling part. My S was arrested for stealing paychecks from a former employer to feed his drug habit. I would listen to him say “I’ve had it with my boss. I”m going to go back and work in health care.”

In the next breath he would say “I’m going to call your friend Y and go work selling jewelry like he does to the ultra rich.”

And all I remember is sitting there thinking “In what lifetime. In what universe?”

Ox Drover

Dear Fly,

Your question is like “how high is up?” or “how low is down?” They just DO it, I think maybe they seem to think if they keep denying it that you will BELIEVE. Or that some how, like a 5 year old will not understand that you KNOW he was in the cookie jar because you heard him lift the lid and clink the glass, they somehow don’t get it that VISUAL proof is enough for you, and that if they keep on lying that some how you will be able to ignore what you SEE (or hear) as proof.

My son lied and lied and denied and denied even when his own attorney told me the evidence against him which was irrefutible evidence that he killed the girl. But you know, I still don’t UNDERSTAND how someone can do that, but they have NO shame, no conscience, and no remorse, so they aren’t effected by being caught in a lie like you or I would be. We would be embarassed, humiliated, and would try to “explain” it with another lie, but we wouldn’t just deny deny deny! But they do…but I don’t think we will totally understand why!


Flyspeck: Their reality is whatever they choose it to be. A legend in their own mind, so to speak.

I remember watching the S/P practice his lie in the mirror. He believed it as he said it. I didn’t know what I was watching at the time.

We must remember — they are THAT twisted. The problem is that their “mental illness” doesn’t look like mental illness to others. But we have to remember — they are sick.

I’m glad you are here, and hope you are well.

Is opn

Rune: The S that I knew used to talk to himself and look in the mirror. Not when I was in the room. I happened to walk in and see him looking at the mirror and talking, like there was another person he was talking to, or talking to himself to believe what he was saying. It was usually during an angry time.


Is Opn: I have seen that with two people — the S/P who targeted me in an elaborate con, and a person with multiple personalities (Dissociative Identity Disorder or DID). I have had a conversation with two experts in the field of researching psychopaths, and one had never heard of this, the other one had wondered if a psychopath might dissociate without amnesia — in other words, with the invented new lie or “personality” they wouldn’t show guilt, because to that “personality” the lie was the new truth.

Years ago I watched a movie with Terry Quinn (of LOST, the TV show). The movie was called “The Stepfather.” At the time, I thought it was the scariest movie I had ever seen. Now I think it is a pretty accurate description of a psychopath, but there is one scene in which the guy is rehearsing his facial expressions and tone of voice by watching “Mr. Ed.” When I saw the S/P rehearsing in front of the mirror (I walked in on him) I thought of that scene and got the cold chills. I didn’t have an explanation, but I knew I was seeing something far beyond creepy!


we need a thread just for rant’s and rave’s – where we aren’t always looking for a response but just a place to let off some steam or think out loud. Somebody said, I think it was Kathy – turn off the words in our head and just feel the emotions – sounds like a good plan, wish it worked for me. Midnite reflection is here ten years after her encounter, Southernman three years after and he is still haunted – I so relate with that word – Haunted – i feel like a whimp cause it has been one year for me and I am still walking around with lead in my shoes, like a deer looking in the head lights not knowing which way to run – yes bottom line is I know what happened – I think I want to stop putting labels on the disorder, his and mine and whatever was wrong was just so fucking wrong…

Is opn

Rune:omgosh, It was the strangest thing I had ever seen and would ever want to see again. It happened on other occasions.

I am changing the cell phone number tomorrow.

Message today I had to go to dr. 2 times and had tests, on beta blockers, dr. and I agree I don’t need stress right now because you did not answer important text if I could spend support money to go to doctor. I can’t have stress.

I am changing the cell phone number tomorrow.


Hi Henry. I figured out recently that so much of my life of chaos and pain goes back to the guy I married at age 18. That was quite awhile ago. I don’t know all the answers as to why I have the pattern, but I think it might have something to do with a family tragedy that pulled my parents attention away from me when I was a tot. I didn’t endure what you did in your family, but I got “trained” to hope for love from people who were distant. And isn’t that a description of an S/P? Distant. Unavailable. But we keep trying to please them and win them over.

You have helped me understand some things. I so appreciate your sharing and caring heart.

Is opn

henry: Re: I so relate with that word – Haunted

My response, I am Haunted and moving to Antarctica.


Is Opn: He will manipulate anyone at any time. The doc (if there really is one) will feel compelled to defend his actions, because he won’t want to believe that he’s dealing with a scumbag who conned him.

Change your number. If anyone needs to reach you on his behalf, it should be someone with accountability, through a lawyer or something.

Today I snagged a 7-day trial membership at a gym and spent time bonding with a treadmill that had a TV screen built in. Guess what was on MSNBC? The story of the BTK killer, complete with video of interviews with psychologists, courtroom testimony, etc. He is so calm, composed, credible. He talks about “bonding” with the cops who arrested him because they were “colleagues.” I know, from the story that the cops were playing him at that point. But if BTK had gone to an ER for treatment from an injury he got while killing someone, I’ll just bet he could have charmed the hospital and ER doc into treating him for PTSD, if he had tried!


Hey Rune – Thank you – just sharing our thoughts and experiences and finding others who relate and understand is liberating in it’s self. Yes my childhood was a mess and I am sure all the crap I am dealing with now is because of the s-p-n’s that raised me to be so dysfunctional. I had put that too rest about 5 years ago simply because it was just to much to deal with. I divorced myself from all my childhood haunt’s. But I guess my patterns didnt change. What screws with my mind is, I was already a mess before this person came into my life. I shared some of my past with him and he was comforting and said he had a dysfunctional childhood as well and we both thot that together we could make a good life. Well he was lying and decieving and manipulating me, and using me for a roof over his head and I was thinking FINALLY I have found YOU..but i felt in my heart he was lying and in some ways I held back – I never trusted his intentions – mostly because of the circumstance that brought him into my life, it wasnt romance and dating and never was there butterflys and all the things people do when they fall in love – he simply tripped and fell in my lap and became my responsibility. He always said he wished we had met under different circumstances. Well? Why doesnt he change those circumstances? If I thought I had done him wrong Iwould move mountains to make amends and get him back in my life. He just simply tripped again and moved on to the next—HAUNTED by an IMPOSTER is the best way i can describe it.. and Rune I appreiate you very much as well..

Is opn

Rune: This new situation “may” be very well viable.
But with the issues of run ins with the locals and having “things” to get done before March as ordered to, (s told me) The timing is just so there, to distract what S was supposed to be doing and didn’t do, cause there was something else going on, and was not able to do it.

You know every weekend for about 4 weeks now, it has been something. I have not answered any communication. I feel send it in a letter, or tell it to the judge, it is out of my hands, I paid an attorney well, and I am done.

Re: The movie was called “The Stepfather.”

I am going to check to see if that is around in my old video store.


Is Opn – Antartica???? brrrr it cold there…have you seen the movie ‘march of the penquins’? narrated by morgan freeman…I love that movie – i will confess – during the first few months after he discarded and devalued me – I would put that movie on at nite when I went to bed and Morgan Freeman’s voice helped me fall too sleep – I didnt know what do so I just pulled the covers over my head and listened to morgan and the music of March with the Penguins – btw I am much better now~~!!


Is Opn: I’m assuming he is “calling in sick to work,” and “the dog ate his homework.”


Henry: I just got a visual of our situation. Look at us sweet, funnym, cute penguins all waddling around in our cute outfits, and a “landshark” dressed up to look like us, pretend-waddling in our midst. I don’t mean to give you nightmares, but isn’t that kind of like the truth? Like they are a different species pretending to be like us?

Oh me, oh my. I think we should move to Arkansas before Antarctica. We could try something a little warmer before we move THAT far south!

Is opn

henry: Re: Is Opn – Antartica???? brrrr it cold there”have you seen the movie ’march of the penquins’

Yes Antarctica, my soul was frozen by all this stuff, and has thawed. I could take the cold of the natural environment after the chilling my soul. I used to like scary movies alot, but now after looking back at this situation, scary movies aren’t scary anymore. I lost my scaryness, I lived it.

March of the Penquins, thanks Henry I will look into that too. My video and book collection list is growing as well as the wardrobe of tutus, felt hats, hipwaders, and duct tape.

I forgot to mention about the duct tape door, I open it with a butter knife in the crack to pry it open. Is opn. LOL


yes a different species for sure – and we help refine them and they learn how to be better at pretending to be real people and use what they learned from our good and loving ways to decieve the next waddling penquin


Don’t forget frosted cookies. And on a challenging day, reach for the pre-twisted knickers!

Is opn

Rune: I’m assuming he is “calling in sick to work,” and “the dog ate his homework.”

Unemployed, being a seasonal worker, it is winter. Benefits include extra for dependents. How accomodating. Had to spend dependent benefits, like always, something came up a pattern for years. This is not the first of this something came up.

Re: I think we should move to Arkansas before Antarctica.

I have been there briefly passing through. I think there is a Wall Drug, tourist place if I am not mistaken. Ok, ARkansas it is, better for dancing in Tutu’s, won’t freeze and no need for fake fur lined parkas.


Is: I’ll meet you at the Wall Drug. Shall I wear a tutu or a penguin suit?


They say when in Arkansas beware of the ole hag on a jackass that carries a cast iron skillit and strums it like a banjo~~!!

Ox Drover

Dear Henry,

I’v ehad some thoughts rattling around in my head about why the PATTERNS of involvement with these people, same arse-holes, different faces?

I think each of us has gotten through the grief response after each one, but we haven’t really done any CHANGING of our patterns.

Your life as a child was HELL, mine, I thought was “okay” but I had tried to “make it okay” and “rewrite it” in my head to OK. Each time I had a P-association of one sort or another I would “get over” the grief and whatever damage they did to me, but I never fixed the ME that was “injured” as a child, the ME that a predator could see from a mile away was an easier prey….now, I think I am working on fixing that earlier, injured ME that made me vulnerable to the Ps, that made them pick me (or me stand up and wave and scream “Here I am PICK ME, PULEEEEZE”

Learning to set boundaries and not be fearful or guilty I think is the first step I made in changing the ME that was a victim, I am NO LONGER THAT ME! I can set the boundaries, make the rules that I will tolerate and not tolerate and it is OK if you don’t like them (that’s the “Universal you”) you can hit the road, Jack!

BTW we are having our ANNUAL SNOWTIRE AND DAFFODIL FESTIVAL here now, the flowers are blooming and it is SNOWING! One little town got 12 inches of snow (a lot for this state) but we only got a dusting here, but it is 29 and falling outside. Brrrrrrr! Just can’t wait for JULY! NOT!!!! At least we always have some form of weather to complain about! Too hot, too cold, too humid, too windy, heck, I can find all kinds of things to grouse about! Where’s my skillet!?

Ox Drover

Henry!!!! We were posting at the same time! You dog! How did you know I put guitar pegs and strings on my skillet, I was wanting to suprise you! LOL ROTFLMAO

Old Hag! That does it, our engagement is off! I haven’t been called that name in a while, in fact, this morning by chance! The boys were griping cause I wouldn’t let them make fun of the way I looked when I got up this morning! LOL I can’t help it if someone puts my finger in a light socket while I sleep and I look like a USED Q-TIP IN THE MORNINGS, my late husband used to think it was CUTE! It’s almost as much fun for my family to watch me waddle in to get my first cup of coffee as it is to watch a baby lamb trying to get up for the first time. I have about that much balance and grace—NONE!!! LOL


Oxy: I’ll bet Henry just wanted to get your goat. Perhaps both of them!


ROTFLMAO Oxy – I was hoping you were in bed – now I did not say OLD hag I said OLE hag – and beside’s you broke off our engagment months ago – I think you have eyes on that young cowboy hired hand anyhow….Yes OXY what you described about not changing our patterns is this [we lacked confidence] and we are gaining confidence now all on our own, not looking for it from someone else, but looking at our whole lives and seeing we were abused – I have two very confident son’s – I instilled that in them when I was not so sure of my own confidence…

Is opn

I see why NC is so very important to heal and rid your mind of the S. The S’s try to bring you back to that world of zombies just by reading a text, and then you are looking into another world, a world of that mind, that you have been trying to move on and heal from.

I have had so many dreams this past week. It is as if it has been a non stop night of dreams every day. A good thing I guess. I do not remember ever dreaming so much and consistently every night this past week.

Years ago when I went for marriage counselling for couples, and went alone, (set up and agreed by the S and S was going to go) the Dr, chief of staff asked me after a few sessions if I dream. At the time I never could recall having a dream during that time. I asked why? He said if you dream you are not depressed. He said in a state of depression you never dream. Humm.

Maybe the fog is gone. Reality.
I like the laughing dreams I have had lately. I can’t remember the dream or what it was about, but I felt as if I laughed all night long and had a good next day, all day.

Is opn

Rune: Wear the tutu and bring the penguin suit as a change of clothing. The weather may change and need to be prepared.


Isopn This is for you – In the end the final discard belongs to us. We set the limit. We end the dance. They have no limits and are unable to do this. The abyss between devaluation by our partner and the ultimate discard by our choice is bridged when we realize that there is no going back in any way. No friendship, no enmity, there can be nothing at all.

Is opn

henry: In the end the final discard belongs to us. We set the limit. We end the dance. They have no limits and are unable to do this.

Yes… Yes… Yes, I agree this could go on for decades and more decades, a different day and a new story lie.
The stories just get so out of believing anything, of what an S may say. But having the insight they are lies, with a straight face, and no conscience makes it easier to keep moving on.
One of the people I confide in and one of the few other than here that believes what I say goes on, is as amazed as I am, and says it has gone on for too long.

I thought through time that it would just go away. It won’t happen after all is said and done. I have to go away, a new location, cleared out by the van lines in hours and no forwarding for peace of mind.

Ox Drover

DEar Henry! You scoundrel! You’re jealous of a 26 year old cowboy! He’s just a kid, cute, yes, but such a dunce about life! (I mean than in a nice way, BTW) His P x wife sure did a number on him, bless his little heart! And yea, when I was younger I wold have been all over him, but you know, looking at him now, I just want to put a band aid o n his “boo-boo” and tell him “there there, it will be okay” and You know, it will be for a while til he hooks up with another dysfunctional relationship. I’m helping him learn to dig out from the financial pit his X put him in, but he isn’t ready to learn what really hit him. He’s trying to be a “macho man” and keep a “stiff upper lip” and all that crap that guys (especially guys) do when they have been emotionally injured.

By the time he finds out the next one is a P he will probably have 2 or 3 kids, more the shame. His last one was a doozie, and she and her past BF who is her new BF came with her to the stockyards where this kid works on sale day Tuesdays herding cattle and crashed into his truck with her truck!

If he can keep his trailer payments made he will be lucky, he’s moved back in with his parents and is renting it out for nearly enough to cover the payments, and shoeing horses after work til dark or after to try to catch up. At least he is willing to work, and work hard and his bosses are helping him get all the work he can as well.

That’s the heck of it, he’s a “good kid” at heart, hard working, up front and honest, and doesn’t even know what “truck” hit him. He doesn’t even realize how to spot the red flags, and at this point in his life (and probably forever too) he can’t grasp that it wasn’t an “ordinary” break up.

That’s one of the frustrations, is that no matter how YOU can see it, they have to be ready to RECEIVE the knowledge themselves…they have to know that they NEED it.

Back when I was his age, I was pretty “dumb” too, I didn’t even know what I needed to know, much less how to get that knowledge. I guess another case of “too soon old, too late smart!” Goodnight, I am going to bed now, almost 1 a.m. (((hugs)))))


isopn – I dont know your situation, if you still live with him or what, but no contact is as simple as changing phone numbers, changing locks and not opening the door. Dont comunicate with anyone that knows him. You dont have to move, just go No Contact right now…


I contradict myself all the time on here – there is nothing simple about No Contact – but it can be done with out moving..


and ATT will change your number to unlisted numbers at no charge if you tell them you are getting threatening phone calls – no contact is the ONLY weapon we have against them – no cantact is our ultimate salvation.

Is opn

henry: No I don’t live with S. I changed the locks 9 months ago and he seemed to have accepted it at the time, and disappeared, with no calls or anything for about 4 months. In December I went to drop off gifts at a relatives house, and who was in the driveway after I pulled in, the S. He filled me in without me asking of his past months, the IRS is after him and owes money to , was arrested for something, had to pay tow fees, a lawyer, a program he had to enroll in and everything was coming down on him. And no work for the winter, no place to live etc.

In January he wanted to come and get some things here, stayed for a while and we had a long, long chat after he asked me to remarry him and I said, no, how stupid. I calmly explained why not, because of all the most major occurrences in the relationship and I no longer wanted to live this way. I said it is not good for either of us. My stupidity, I thought it was maybe emotional issues, or ill mental health, drinking or something was wrong. I was firm and he listened.

And then all this followed. I did not know then he was an S until I came here and saw him in every trait. If I knew then I would not have had that final, we are done, sorry talk and be happy.

In October I started seeing someone until December. One time S drove by incognito with a hat, sun glasses, and cell phone to his ear in another car and watched as I got into the car of the guy I was dating. I never dated anyone before this.

Married 20 something years before a non S, and married second time with S off and on for 4 but really eight off and on when he was gone by choice or told to leave. Divorced him 4 years ago. And he moved on. I kept letting him back no money, no place to live.

S was stirred up by me moving on with a new man on my arm and more than likely had seen him arriving at my house with flowers etc.

The next way to go is you are right by changing the phone numbers, but knowing S, he will appear at the door, which will not be opened.

I can’t move now in reality, sounds good though. I have to sell first and stay with frozen pies and fix doorknob etc. and do it as it needs to be done.

Then, if after changing numbers etc. it continues, will have to take the next step in the legal process and throughout NC. The hook is being put out to me. I am not accepting it and things sometimes get a little more intense, but I will find out.

Thanks Henry


my x showed up in my driveway one time when I was outside – I went in the house shut the door and didnt open it when he knocked – I never said a word or made eye contact – he has not been back since – one year now – not opening that door took every ounce of willpower I had – but I knew he was an imposter and not who he pretended to be – I would give anything if he was who he pretended to be – does that makes sense? goodnite ….



God, that makes sense. I have felt that way so many times. I have to chastise myself and remind myself it’s not real.


I honestly think the best way to get rid of an S or an N for that matter is to act like they don’t exist. Thinking of DJ, there are some S’s that will lose it and MAKE you pay attention to them, but I think most of them don’t want to blow their game. If you don’t respond to them, they can’t make you look like the crazy one, you just look like a bitch, which is sometimes hard for us to accept, but better than looking crazy. It reminds me of the final scene in Labrynth, when Sara tells the Goblin King “you have no power over me,” and she wins, up until then she was stuck in his world playing by his rules caught in a maze.

Henry’s got the right idea, do not engage. Is opn, you know what you’re facing now and you know what to do. I didn’t even have a last conversation with the S, I had had so many conversations before that trying to make him see we were through, trying to tell him he needed help. I decided I was done and stopped all contact.

Henry and Oxy, you’re right about needing new patterns. That’s why I’m here, to share my story with others who may get something from it to help on there road to recovery, and to further my work on new patterns. Yes, it’s important to heal from our encounters with the S’s in our lives, but the other important step is making sure it doesn’t continue to happen. Part of the S/N/P trap is preying on our inclination to rescue others even if it means risking our own lives. It’s like we’re on a ship in the ocean and the S’s call to us like sirens in the water or they act like they are drowning, we should just throw them a life preserver or maybe send them a dingy, but instead we jump overboard and risk drowning ourselves to try to save them. Those of us who already had issues before the S don’t even have a ship, we’re on the sea in rowboats, yet we still risk ourselves to “help” others.

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