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BOOK REVIEW: The Socially Skilled Child Molester

By Ox Drover

I recently read The Socially Skilled Child Molester: Differentiating the Guilty from the Falsely Accused, by Carla van Dam, Ph.D.

Carla van Dam, Ph.D., is a clinical and forensic psychologist who has practiced in the U.S. and Canada, and taught in several universities. She is well known in the community of those who focus on primary prevention strategies to help end child sexual abuse. One of her previous books was Identifying Child Molesters: Preventing Child Sexual Abuse by Recognizing the Patterns of Offenders.

Several of the reviews of this book pretty well sum up my opinion of this well-written book.

The Socially Skilled Child Molester provides a thorough description of common types of child molesters, most importantly, distinguishing between ”˜grabbers’ and ”˜groomers.’” Kelly Simonson, Ph.D.

“A provocative analysis of four types of smarter, richer, socially skilled and often litigious offenders as opposed to the cruder, more frequently captured types. Such offenders, whom the author calls ”˜groomers,’ usually spend more time cultivating the good graces of family members, neighborhoods, and whole communities rather than selecting and seducing their victims. These offenders are usually regarded as upstanding pillars of the community, and include businessmen, priests, judges, coaches, teachers and volunteers”¦” Thomas R. O’Connor, Ph.D.

“Carla van Dam carefully describes the various child molesters who sit next to us in our churches and synagogues, go to the theater, and eat in the same restaurants with us. They continue to harm children because they fool us into thinking that such nice guys couldn’t do such a terrible thing.” Lenore E. Walker, Ed.D. (Dr. Walker was a pioneer in the defense of women who faced criminal charges for attacking their long-time abusers. Her books include The Battered Woman, The Battered Woman Syndrome, Handbook of Child Sexual Abuse, and Abused Women and Survivor Therapy.)

Having personally been well acquainted for a number of years with one of the most prolific child abusers, totaling over 1500 victims, Charles “Jackie” Walls, III, who is currently serving life without parole in Arkansas Department of Corrections, I know how easy it is for these “socially skilled” child molesters to pass for “upstanding citizens” in the community for decades, all the while doing damage to so many. Though I never liked Jackie because he was an obvious narcissistic creep, it never dawned on me, I never had the faintest inkling, that he was living this dual life of upstanding family man and Boy Scout volunteer of the year during the daytime, and monster at night.

Dr. van Dam’s book gives a clear and precise directions for spotting the warning signs in a predator who is socially skilled and highly thought of in the community, who presents himself as the “too good to be true” businessman, priest, rabbi, physician, nurse, volunteer, etc., who is too helpful, too private, too attentive to children, too touchy with children, too involved with image management, too one-sided in relationships, always giving, never taking, too opportunistic, too superficial, too prone to violate boundaries of personal space and privacy, too aggressive when confronted, too quick to drop friendships when children grow older, too likely to disappear when contact with children is denied, altogether too charming . . . and, too good to be true.

Dr. van Dam divides her book into 10 chapters, as follows:

Chapter 1. “Understanding the Problem” focuses on the fact that the “groomers,” as she calls them, are well-socialized child molesters and behave as if they were addicted to sexual contact with children.

Chapter 2. “Child Molesters in Their Natural Habitat” familiarizes readers with the operating styles of the groomers and allows them to notice the often-predictable practices so that readers can more effectively prevent child sexual abuse.

Chapter 3. “Current Practices” provides the reader with information on the inadequacies of the way child sexual abuse is addressed by communities.

Chapter 4. “Not All Child Molesters Are Alike.” This chapter gives a closer focus on the vocabulary used to describe sexual misconduct. Child molesters do much damage to children by first carefully grooming adults in order to gain access to children.

Chapter 5. “Common Misperceptions.” This chapter focuses on groomers’ excuses and explanations when their conduct is challenged. These are hackneyed clichés that are often misconstrued as sincere. Everyone needs to know these well enough to recognize them when they occur.

Chapter 6. “Accurately Differentiating Danger.” This provides the framework to understand how the behaviors of groomers often vary from those whose conduct should not be worrisome. It points out that behavioral patterns of successful groomers vary significantly from those who are not child molesters.

Chapter 7. “A Framework for Understanding Child Sexual Abuse.” Using an iceberg as an analogy of the groomer’s behavior, this chapter gives information to the reader about how to expose the groomer’s operating strategies to protect children.

Chapter 8. “Interviewing Child Molesters.” This shows the reader that though groomers are incredibly successful liars, the lies they tell can be identified, and are often predictable. This allows the reader to be less gullible and better protect their children.

Chapter 9. “Predicting Risk.” This chapter deals with differentiating convicted offenders from the less to the more dangerous.

Chapter 10. “Incorporating Corroborating Evidence.” This chapter brings all the information together for both professionals and for families in ways to network in the community to protect our children from predators.

This book, in my opinion, is a must-have for anyone who wants to protect children, in their own home and in the community. While Dr. van Dam does not think that all pedophiles qualify as psychopaths, she does say that they “lack empathy, and experience no real remorse as shown by their actual behaviors.”

Although this book focuses on child molesters, many of the practices that the groomers use are familiar to some of us who have met sociopaths who looked like such “good people” and turned out to be such bad nightmares. The book may also be interesting to people who want to understand more about how a bad person can hide in plain sight.

To purchase the book, go to Amazon.com:

The Socially Skilled Child Molester: Differentiating the Guilty from the Falsely Accused.


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98 Comments on "BOOK REVIEW: The Socially Skilled Child Molester"

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Dear OxDrover,

Thanks for posting this timely article. This sounds like a great book. In the excerpt I read, the author pointed out that 95% of child molesters are “groomers”. I suspect she’s right. If this is the case, then parents need to be sensitive to the strategies of groomers.

I recently stumbled on this entry in another blog:

“Would these things cause red flags for you?

——————————————————————————–

Say an older (40’s) single divorced man wanted to hold your toddler at every opportunity. You don’t know this man….just having met him a few months ago. He’s new to the area and your church. He’s the first person to greet you at church, and the last person to seek you out before you leave, each time holding out his arms to hold your toddler.

This is what’s been happening since we met this man. It makes me very uncomfortable but I don’t know why. I guess maybe I’m wondering why he doesn’t hang out with people his own age. He doesn’t seem interested in any other children, just our one daughter. Part of me thinks maybe it’s just his way of trying to get to know our family… you know, like an icebraker. But then, do we really want to befriend a single man his age not knowing his history, etc. *especially* considering he is so interested in our daughter? And shouldn’t an older single man know that that’s not the way to make friends? Maybe I’m just thinking way into this. It really bothers me that he seeks us out and then we stand there while he holds our daughter until we peel her away and leave. Would this bother you?? ”

Dozens of people posted back. “Yes, it would bother them!” They went on to suggest various strategies for protecting the children in the church. I was impressed.

I think many parents are pretty wary, but groomers are adept at homing in on that segment of the population that is not.

The more I think about it, the more I want to read this book. These groomers sound like psychopaths to me, and psychopaths fool practically everyone. It wouldn’t hurt for me to do some studying.

Thanx again Ox Drover!

On your recommendation, Oxy, I recently obtained this book through interlibrary loan. As the mother of at least two victims of an extremely socially skilled child molester, let me caution casual readers that is a TOUGH and BLUNT book. The first chapter, especially, is brutal, and I’m not sure I would recommend it to someone in the early stages of shock and discovery.

I’ve been dealing with the aftermath of a psychopath for five years now and it still gave me nightmares.

However, the book is full of good information. The most difficult thing I learned as a mother was that I will likely NEVER know the full extent of what the monster did. The children often never reveal everything. The shame is deep. The molesters count on this, and celebrate it.

The author is very effective at describing just how well these monsters deceive. She correctly calls them the world’s best liars. This book could be very useful in convincing the doubtful when “kindly old uncle Joe” seems like such a nice man. Or even good old dad.

I will get hold of this book Oxy. Although I have always steered clear of books on this subject because I couldnt stomach it , I have been forced out of denial and I think its about time I up a bit. Tood says its tough and blunt…gulp…but maybe its time for me.

My father was a ‘groomer’ of young teens and the s/p I knew is a ‘groomer’ of anything with a pulse – I knew my father was doing it when he was and I couldnt stand it but I didnt know what it was!!

typo ‘ about time I read up a bit’ (sorry)

I recommend this book to ANYONE wanting to learn about how psychopaths hide themselves in society. I learned more about psychopaths in society from this book than from any other book I have read. No other book so clearly describes the “groomer,” and I think that those of us who were targeted by well-socialized “nice” men who were sociopathic were targeted by “groomers.” Only WE were the targets, not children.

I read this book two years ago when I was early in the process of coming to understand what a psychopath was. I read the book for its information on psychopathic behavior, not realizing as I was reading it that the person I had been involved with was probably also a child molester. I have since gotten information that reinforces my sense that he is also a child molester as well as a psychopath who is highly destructive in many other ways.

Yep, this book is BLUNT and to the point, but it also shows you how to distinguish the groomers from the peopl;e who just like children. they act differently.

My opinion of the man at the church is that he likes children, rather than is grooming.

The author gives several different examples of the real groomers vs the folks who like children and since this guy is doing this in front of the parents, is not offering to baby sit, etc. he does’t make my skin crawl.

My sons both love kids and do volunteer work and tutoring with kids one has never married and one is recently divorced, but they do NOT have any of teh “groomer” signs and both are aware that they must NEVER BE ALONE with a child without another adult in VISUAL CONTACT at the very least. The Boy Scouts of America have this as a policy. It is a good policy, but obviously Jackie Walls did not adhere to this policy as a BSA volunteer. My son D has worked for and with the BSA for 14 years as programs director at summer camp for a large BSA reservation, so is well aware of the policies on appropriate behavior as a volunteer and adheres to it both at camp and in his private life. It is a good policy for ANY person to adhere to if they are with children not their own, of course even that would not stop a father from molesting his child, or a grandfather, etc.

Yes – maybe on a basic animal level I (and maybe a lot of people) instinctively know (or feel) the difference between a groomer and someone who just loves kids (I love kids, my best male friend loves kids…its a different ‘atmosphere’), the are lots of little flags, innappropriate behaviour sometimes very subtle, inconsistancies, it made me uncomfortable as a child watching my father’s behaviour towards cousins and young girls in the neighbourhood – the s/p behaved in exactly the same way towards women of any age… it set my ‘spidey sense’ tingling but I couldnt put my finger on it…

I ordered this book, “Just Like His Father” (Dr. Leedom), “Sociopath Next Door” (Martha Stout), and “Without Conscience” (Robert Hare).

If I can get one little kernal of ANYTHING from any of these books that will help me to help my niece, it will be worth it.

The problem is blueskies, is that too many people do NOT know the differences in how they behave, this book kwas an EYE OPENER, I actually instinctivel;y knew a few of the things she pointed out, but hadn’t really thought too much about them, now I will NEVER ignore the differences or question myself—that questioning yourself is what allows them to flourish. I read Dr. Anna Salter’s book “Predators” about child molesters too, and between the two of these books you get a REAL EDUCATION in child sexual abuse and that is one of my HOT TOPICS and one that I think the death penalty by crucifiction is NOT HARSH ENOUGH!

Instead, our society tries to “rehabilitate” them! SHEET, THESE PEOPLE A PSYCHOPATHS FOR GOODNESS SAKES, THEY CAN’T BE REHABILITATED OR STOPPED EXCEPT BY KILLING THEM!

OxDrover:

From your mouth (or the above post) to GOD”S EARS!!!

do you know what? – I have come here and read and participated the best I can, I dont know what it is but I am pretty fed up with being put down or ignored. It’s terrible because I have nowhere else to go. Pretty much the only feed back I get here is negative.

Dear blueskies,

I am not sure why you think you are “put down” and “ignored” on this web site….If I have in any way put you down or ignored you, I am unaware of it and it was totally unintentional.

Just by nature of the way this blog is set up sometimes people’s questions are overlooked when someone repies to someone else a few posts above the last poster. People come and go at odd times of the day and hop on and off the blog, I know I do. I hven’t actually been on teh blog much lately as I’ve had company from out of town and been distracted by that.

I hope tha tyou will hang around, this really IS A GREAT PLACE for support and for help. If you are having a problem, and want an immediate or quick answer or support on something, put in the first sentence “Help, I need someone to respond” Others do this and usually get a responose from the person who is on line at the time or the first person back on line.

If for any reason I have offended you or made you think I was putting you down, that was the FURTHEREST thing from my mind. Actually I was agreeing that our “spidey” tingle is right on, but too many people DON’T have it, or don’t listen to it. In the past, I have NOT listened to my spidey sense and I will be working very hard in the future to LISTEN TO IT.

(((HUGS)))) oxy

Blueskies: I enjoy reading your posts, you are a very insightful person, I should participate by posting more than I do. My ex N bf was always looking at young girls (age 13-19) or making comments, even about little girls! He would say to his nephew about a 6 year old “she’s going to have talent” and we thought he was a creep. So like you said, I knew it was inappropriate, it made me feel uncomfortable, and now I realize he is an ABSOLUTE a**hole… it wouldn’t suprise me if I found out now that he has tried “something” with a young girl if he could.

I hope you stick around, I don’t have anywhere else to go either! Sometimes I think my replies sound stupid and I delete them after having spent 10 minutes trying to write out what I am trying to say. I have never been a creative writer, when I was working and someone would pass around a group birthday card for someone… I would stare at it for 10-15 minutes and then finally write “Happy Birthday” LMAO! How pathetic is that! LOL

Blueskies!

Please don’t think I was ignoring you or putting you down either!
I was actually referring to the 2nd half of OxDrover’s post, where she says child abuse is a HOT TOPIC for her, and she wishes we had capital punishment for them. I feel the exact same way about that!!!
It had NOTHING to do with you! But I can see how it could possibly be interpreted otherwise? That’s what I hate about the internet. There is so much room for misinterpretations.

Blueskies,

You are very welcome here, and I agree that your posts have been thoughtful and definitely worth reading. Sometimes we all get caught up in passionate discussions and it turns into something like a lot of people talking at the same time.

Along with everyone else, I hope you haven’t been terminally put off. This is a wonderful site, and extraordinarily valuable to people who are getting over sociopathic or just plain abusive relationships. Hearing your complaint will make me more conscious in discussions here.

You definitely were noticed and appreciated. I hope you keep sharing your story and your thoughts.

Kathy

Blueskies,

You are very welcome here. I hope you keep sharing your story and your thoughtful observations.

Kathy

Oops, sorry for the repetition. Didn’t mean to post that first one. Now you all can see that I really do try to be less longwinded.

“Kathleen Hawk says:

Blueskies,

You are very welcome here. I hope you keep sharing your story and your thoughtful observations.

Kathy”

Ditto, and if I have in any way made you feel that way I am sorry and hope you do stay.

Blueskies,

Sweety, I’ve never responded to your post but I sure as heck read them. You’re a wonderful and wise writer so of course I’m going to most certainly read what you write and what all the other awesome peeps write.

LoveFraud has become a second family to me. I love this place. Of course, I absolutely detest the harm, abuse and damage committed against each of you over the years by predators but I still read. And care tremendously! You bet I do!

When I first started posting on LF I was very hyper sensitive, a little bit overwhelmed by my last involvement with a sociopath. I was terrified of revealing any weaknesses/vulnerabilities to the whole wide world.

But, there was Oxy, right on cue offering a loving, caring hand to the newcomers. Her first post to me made me feel MAHVELOUS, when I hadn’t felt that goodness in…well, never.

Now, I’m no longer hyper sensitive. No longer terrified of insults from the members because it’s not something that has ever happened to me while I’ve been a member on here.

I’ve only received the best of guidance, support and encouragement. And I sincerely hope that I’ve offered the same to others.

I write what I write here on LF, heedless of criticsm, not really seeking approval but just…sharing with my kindred spirits.

Please don’t leave, Blueskies. You are a valuable member of LF and we DO need your unique wisdom and insight.

🙂

ShabbyChic,

Ok, that last paragraph about the Happy Birthday card was just flat out adorable! I have done the same exact thing while working in offices. Especially if I barely knew the person.

What was I suppose to say?..uh..”Can’t wait to see you naked!! Yowzah!!”…or maybe..”Where has the time gone?! I remember our first meeting, 2 weeks ago at the water cooler. We discussed the lack of windows in our tiny offices and the mystery items growing mold in the frig. Wow, such an amazing memory of you. I’ll never forget!”

😛

Ha ha. I thought it was just me! I once wrote: Happy Birthday LOVE ShabC2 … to a guy we couldn’t stand and we called him Stinky (not to his face – of course) because it always looked like the shirt he was wearing was one he had picked up off the floor or retrieved from the laundry bin! LMAO! Those were the good ole days.

Jane, Just when I was feeling really uncomfortable with this thread you made me laugh at your reply to Shabbychic who was replying to Blueskies. I like reading all the comments here. We all add our own flavor. It seems that recently some of the posters are feeling touchy and upset by others posts or lack there of. I think we are all at different places of healing and some of us are still shell shocked and waiting for the other shoe to drop. Feeling insecure and expecting criticism because we have been subjected to it for so long by our involvement with our abusers. Or so it seems to me. I see this in my own life though not on this forum. I just expect mistreatment. I wait for it in anticipation and as a result I push people away. I have been called out on this tendency recently by a new friend. That I give no slack and I’m hyper sensitive to perceived slights when none were intended. Blueskies please stick around. You need to be here as do all of us who happen on here for support. I don’t know if I’m ready to confirm my fears for my stepdaughter. I’m sort of stuck between I did all I can do and wanting to pretend that everything was a misunderstanding and that Daddy is a swell guy. At some point I may be ready to read these books, but right now I’m too raw and it is too fresh in my mind to disengage myself from it. For my own serenity and the sake of my kids, I have to step away from this situation. And it kills me that right now ignorance seems a little like bliss when it comes to this topic.

Dear Joy,

That is why this is such a hot topic for me, I have had to STEP AWAY so many times from kids that I knew had been mistreated (one way or another) and couldn’t get a darned thing done about it. Stepping away from something we can’t control, even though WE KNOW it is not a good thing, is VERY difficult for me—I am a FIGHTER, and when someone or something is helpless, I am a SUCKER and want to plunge in swinging my skillet, or a sword, or SOMETHING! DO SOMETHING, and when there is nothing I CAN DO it is very difficult for me to put it into God’s hands and just PRAY.

Actually, I think that is one of the things I am HAVING TO LEARN THE HARD WAY, is that there are some injustices I cannot right, cannot fix, and I just have to let it go, let God deal with it and PRAY LIKE THERE IS NO TOMORROW.

My prayers for you too, and for your step daughter! (((hugs))))

Hi folks , I have been away a while but not sleeping . I must say I had not really given the child molesting subject much thought , but as I was readying the posts I realise that its the same old human predator at work . I think that what we have to come to grips with is that these people are not really human for what ever reason . Perhaps what I find most fascinating is that they seem not to be male or female . Are they both or are they neither . I base these thoughts on two encounters that I have had in the past year . One with a transvestite and the other with a self confessed gay male who said without fan fair that he had f–ked as many women as men . I will start with the self confessed gay male . The situation was in a bar and me and a male friend were sitting on the balcony outside in the sun enjoying a beer . We are both straight I should perhaps add . We both have been involved with psychopathic women in the past , so the whole psychopath subject is quite often the subject of conversation .
At a certain point two males sat at the table beside us . I would say that they had both been drinking a while but they were not rowdy . Me and my friend are talking about politics . At one point one of the males at the next table leaves and the other guy is left sitting alone sipping on his beer . At some point he makes a comment on something we have said and before we know it he is sitting at our table putting forward what I will call flambouyant far flung political philosophies. We talked about many things to do with the current financial crisis . As the conversation progressed I began to realise that he was a fairly inteligent person , however his knowledge seemed to be flawed and at some point I realised that he did not really know what he was talking about , but he was very good at pretending he did . At this point I was suspecting a psychopath . I decided to change the subject to psychology. It was at this point that he claimed he was a student of psychology . Well this left the door wide open for me so I asked him if he knew anything about psychopaths . He gave a brief text book discription and then asked why the interest . I proceeded to describe my love affair with a psychopathic woman . It was during this conversation that he admitted to being gay although at the time I wondered after he said he had f–cked as many men as women . He also admitted that he had never been in a relationship for more than 2 months . When I asked how come , he said ,” well after you know 90% of a person why bother with the last 10%”. He also expressed an interest in my love affair with my psychopathic X . I went on to describe how I felt at the time in as much detail as I thought was relevant . To this he stated that, that was what he wanted to experience . It was at this point that I suggested that he never would as I believed he was in fact a psychopath . At first he was somewhat insulted but seemed to stay calm . At this point I went to the wash room . When I came back to the table he was gone . I said to my friend “what did you think of that “, as up till then he had remained mostly silent as the conversation had gone back and forth between me and our bizarre guest . His observations were quite interesting . He agreed with my theory that he was a psychopath but was totally amazed that I had told the guy that I believed that that was what he was . The other thing that amazed him about the conversation was that the guy kept “TELLING ON HIMSELF” To me this was pretty much a confirmation of his psychopathic nature . I have noticed before especially with my X that this was a trait that she had . Of course to the untrained ear as I was back then I did not pick up on it . Over the past year the flash backs that have come to me sometimes just blows me away . If i had been able to remember all the little signs at the same time I probably would have figured it out sooner than I did instead of wasting a year and a half with this woman . The other thing that happened while I was in the washroom was he had said to my friend that he figured that I was a psychopath in denial . He then asked my friend if he wanted to go somewhere else for a drink . At this point my friend had had about enough and told him so. So where does this fit in with the child molester . Well I think its just a slight variation on the psychopathic theme . A victim is a victim , it does not matter the age or the sex to these creatures . I suspect that perhaps as a psychopth ages the concept of younger and younger victims becomes more appealing as they are an easier mark than someone more experienced . When I met my X I was the oldest guy in relation to her own age that she had ever gone out with . She was 43 and I was 51 . Her previous boy friend was 10 years younger . When dressed up for a night on the town she could pass for 25 . From what I’ve been told since ,guys in their early 20s are falling over themselves to get to her when she is in a night club alone . Little do they realise the monster that lurks behind the phoney facade that she so expertly portrays . The tranvestite story I have told before so I will not bore you with that . However here is a question . What percentage of gay people are psychopaths . I suspect that it might be quite high , perhaps 20%to 30% . I have no scientific research to base this on ,only my own observation and instinct .

Hi guest, glad to hear from you again.

quest: He figured you were a psychopath in denial, what a jerk!!!!! Sounds like you spotted him for what he is! I don’t know the answer to you question but have one of my own, are most psychopaths/sociopaths child molesters?

I have a friend who acts like she knows what she is talking about, we were discussing politics and she said “there are 2 billion people in the United States”… I said WHAT??? In the United States??? TRY 300 MILLION (bitch) LOL.

Not-so-shabby: I found this book several years ago because every time I tried to google for information on sociopaths or psychopaths, I got information on child molesters. Then, having found the book, I felt that it explained something about psychopaths/sociopaths that I wasn’t seeing in any other book.

Are most psychopaths/sociopaths child molesters? Well being highly driven by sexual impulses and not being particularly restricted by conscience to an appropriate age group, we might have reason to be concerned.

For psychopaths sex is a weapon to be used as they see fit . They feel no love for their partner what so ever . I suppose what initially amazed me was that I guess a male using sex as a weapon was something that I could imagine , but how did a woman in the same condition apply it in the same manner . Well once you are hooked on the sex with a psychopathic woman you are basically buggered . Its like what I would imagine being hooked on heroin would be like or something similar . Once you are hooked the manipulation intensifies along with all the other crap symptomatic of the psychopathic condition . Sex becomes the preverbial carrot . You can only have some ……IF. I guess I would have to say that all psychopaths probably have the potential to be child molesters , just as they probably all have the potential to kill.
What sets them off in a particular direction is anyones guess

Interesting comments and questions. I especially agree with Quest about the direction they take being anyone’s guess. I just find my new knowledge overwhelming now. I see in coworkers and stories of relationships so many things that make me go,”Red Flag ALERT!” I’m becoming weary of ever having a social life. I’m either hypersensitive or just numb in most situations. I’m thinking becoming a homebody is a fabulous idea. Good thing I like to read and watch TV. Both give me a pleasant escape. Add to that an occasional concert, movie, or shopping trip, and I believe my life may be complete. Now if I could just create a sexual partner who wanted no mind games, no control issues, and no emotional power offer me, I would have it made. And worst of all in my desire to protect myself, I’m sounding just a bit like a psychopath myself. I wonder if it is contagious or if loneliness and longing are making me crazy? Thanks Oxy for your comment. I ‘m the type that fights city hall and wins. Love to battle for a cause, but am left sitting in the corner on this one and praying for a child that I love who loves me too and is forced NC by her crazy dad. Though how could it be any other way with me feeling as I do about him and him wanting to pretend to be normal.

I am not as educated on this as I should be, because I just started researching it, and I could be WAY off base. But, I read somewhere that in “born psychopaths” (where there is a genetic component), the disorder is directly related to testosterone. Psychopaths who are born with the genetic component to their disorder carry larger amounts of testosterone in their system.

Testosterone is a male hormone, but women carry the hormone as well (just not as dominantly as men). So, in female psychopaths, elevated levels of testosterone increases their aggressiveness and makes them more “man-like”, making it easy for them to commit violence. That is why female psychopaths can be just as nasty as the males.
This makes sense to me, because my sister-in-law seems “man-like” to me at times, even though men would probably say she is attractive.

Another thing my sister-in-law has showed me is that child molesters can be women. Women molesting little girls. For some reason, I have always seen it as male pedophiles molesting little boys. Not the case AT ALL.

This theory could be rubbish. Like I said, I am no expert. But it made A LOT of sense to me when I read it.

Blueskies: Hi. Where are you? Are you ok?

Dear Blueskies,

It has been raining here for days on end…I have out of town guests here for their annual summer visit from overseas … a good friend and her two teenage children…today she said “when will we see blueskies again”..I thought of you and everyone at LF… I popped in to catch up and get a long overdue dose of smiles and insightfulness and generally AMAZING conversation…I came across your post… Im sorry for the pain or uncomfortableness you were experiencing…I hope you are doing okay and that you choose to stay and keep sharing with everyone…many of us along the way have had our moments and have at various times expressed our concerns and frustrations (even with our LF experience) as we travel on this journey together and we have all been heard and respected each and every time. As it appears you were too… you definitely bring Blueskies and insight and thoughtfulness to my journey and others…I hope to see you posting here again soon. -LTL

I can’t remember the exact name of the thread here but Dr. Leedom posted an article about psychopaths atre NEITHER STRAIGHT NOR GAY, they are just “sexual” but though SOME have a preference for genderr, and some for ages, hair color etc. most of them are just after sex SEX SEX! the object doesn’t matter much in itself, it is, after all, ALL ABOUT THE P, not the partner.

I don’t want to get into an argument about “is there a higher percentage of gay people psychopathic than straight people?” I do know that many gay people are unhappy and it seems to me that many of them don’t have stable relationships, however, I can SAY THE EXACT SAME THING ABOUT STRIGHT PEOPLE, so what the various percentages are, I haven’t a clue.

I’m like Joy, I look around and see so many people in dysfunctional or bad relationships, that the FEW people I see in good relationships stick out like a bright beacon on a dark night.

As far as a Joy’s comment, “If I could just create a sexual partner who wanted no mind games, no control issues, etc”, I would suggest that you get batteries for this perfect sexual partner. ROTFLMAO

Yes Oxy, the perfect sex partner HAS already been created….!!!!!!
YOU CRACK ME UP!!!!! I LOVE IT!!!
Ding-Ding!!!

A friend of mine suggested that the battery types just “weren’t the same” and I should think about dating again. I said, “Yah, they are different all right. They don’t empty your bank account, molest your kids, and tell everyone you’re crazy.”

I think this book sounds interesting…just don’t know that I am ready or willing. I have mostly come to terms with what he did to my daughter, but part of me is ready to move forward with less time spent beating myself up. (yeah yeah, I know- I was duped and it’s HIS fault- the brain computes but the heart resists letting go of ALL of the guilt.) I don’t know that I really need anymore,”why didn’t I see that?” moments.

What they say about molesters in prison appears to be true in his case- I have to admit that that is a comforting thought now and then. 😉

blueskies: I’m just hanging around waiting to hear fom you. You are a sweet, adorable person, and I miss you! ARE YOU LOST IN CYBERSPACE? I’m picturing you weightless, floating around in space. Have you ever been on Space Mountain at Disneyland? That was fun. I wanted the picture they took of me at the end of the ride, because I had a big, genuine smile on my face, (first one in years) but I was to cheap to buy it. I went on the ride by myself, my sister is too SCARED. In fact one night when my sister and I spent the night at my mom’s house (my mom passed away 2 years ago) MY SISTER left lights on and even left the TV on when she went to bed and I asked her WHY??? and she said “Because you are stoned on Ativan and you have the bedroom door shut!!!” ROTFLMAO! (I take Ativan to SLEEP, not get stoned!) Jeez, I have stayed there by MYSELF and I turn OFF all the lights. So we are going out there tomorrow and I have to call a locksmith because I didn’t know my sister had DEAD BOLTED the front door (one you slide from the inside, not with a key) and then when I left I locked the door that leads outside through the garage AND THERE IS NO KEY FOR THAT DOOR. I have been doing my own pedicure (and believe me I can hardly reach my feet) just so I don’t have to spend the money (if i hadn’t given so much to the S I could afford a pedicure) and now I have to pay for a locksmith!!!!!!! Anyway, I need to hear from you!

Shabbychic,

You are the cutest! Your sense of humor of is out this world awesome!..haha.

My Mom took me and my baby sister to Disneyworld, Florida when I was sixteen. We stayed in St. Petersburg for a couple of days first. Seeing as I’m a water lover, the ocean was a bright green and so clean, clear. Compared to the murky, polluted, muddy colored beaches in Galveston, Tx…it was an oasis. I quit swimming in those nasty waters by the time I was seven. If I wanted to swim in filth, I could just jump in a septic tank, right? bleh..

Afterwards, we went on to Disneyworld and Epcot Center. The Epcot Center was a blast, much more fun than Disneyworld. After EC, DW was sort of a let down. I’ve never been a huge fan of roller coasters so I did not even attempt to get on the Space Mountain ride. But it was night time and it was really pretty and neat watching that ride scream on the tracks and all the excited yells of the people. Too cool!

And I would also like to extend my well wishes to Blueskies. We miss you, doll! Every single one of us has something important and priceless to share with each other. You are needed and wanted on this website. Don’t forget, ok?

🙂

I think that one way to differentiate between someone who loves children and a molester is that the molester is not an emotionally healthy person and as a result, may be poor at respecting boundaries.

I have not read this book, but I have been learning a lot about abusers in general with my therapist who is an expert on helping victims of violence. She is teaching me how to spot abusers. They also target people who are unskilled at setting personal boundaries.

I encounter men all of the time while taking public transportation who give me the creeps when it comes to my young toddler. I am very blunt and some might even consider me to rude when it comes to creepy men violating my son’s personal space. Some of them might just like children, but they still should respect my son’s space and I’d rather have my son be safe and to give him the message that I will do my best to keep him safe and to demand that his personal space be respected.

I’m learning with my therapist and a group that I attend that society in general does not respect a child’s personal space and body. I’m learning how to raise my son differently. It’s not fair to a child to make him kiss all of his uncles or aunts if he doesn’t want to do so. It’s also not okay to program him that anyone can hug, kiss or tickle him if he does not want them to do so. It does not matter if the person is a relative and is completely trusted. It’s still not up to me to decide another human’s personal comfort level. Even when I snuggle him or gave him infant massages to help with his digestion, I learned ways to ask and cues to look for to make sure that he wanted to let me rub his belly or back. He was able to let me know with facial expressions in his baby massage class I took with him when he was only 4 weeks old. I’m teaching him that his body is his alone and he does NOT have to let anyone into his space if he does not want to do so.

I wish my parents would have raised me this way, then maybe I would not have been molested by a family member and maybe I wouldn’t have grown up to be someone who was so easy for a Sociopath to pick out and abuse. I don’t blame my parents for the molestation that happened in their home (I do, however, blame them for not being more emotionally supportive and getting me a therapist when they did find out about it, but that’s another story), but I still wish I had been taught about healthy boundaries. It’s good at least that I’m learning now to teach my son.

I’m not saying that parents who have kids who are abused are to blame, just so you all know. I know how difficult it is to pick out behaviors in Sociopaths. I’m just grateful that I’m finally learning all of this now, while my son is young. I know that there are still no guarantees in life and that all I can do is my best. I’m glad to be learning a little bit more about this type of behavior so I can be more aware. I will be getting this book. It seems like an important read for any parent. Thanks for the tip, Oxy.

jillsmith,

I just so happy we are over the days where is was acceptable to believe “children should be seen and not heard.”

I agree that anyone feeling/thinking it okay to have sex with a minor is themselves somehow bend and/or sick and are in need of some kind of therapy.

James,

It is so nice to not hear that phrase anymore, isn’t it?

jillsmith,

Yes it is! I hated that acceptable behavior and simply minded view about children.

PS. I need to do a better job at proofreading.

“I just so happy we are over the days where is was acceptable to believe “children should be seen and not heard.”

s/b

I just so happy we are over the days where “it” was acceptable to believe “children should be seen and not heard.”

Dear Jill,

I am so glad to hear a young mother who is so aware of boundaries and though you hav ebeen through a horrible trauma with your x (and are still reeling from the trauma) you are putting your CHILD’s welfare above all else. Teaching your son to have boundaries is I think the best thing that you could do for him.

Through the years I ahve encouraged new mothers to breast feed their infants, for many many reasons, nutrition being only one of the minor ones! Even working mothers with the right encouragement can successfully breast feed their infants but because most young mothers are not aware of this and have no one to encourage them to do so, few actually even try.

Early this afternoon one of my milk goats gave birth to very small twin kids. she came from a dairy where the babies were taken away immediately from the mothers and the babies were fed by bottle. though this mother goat has the instincts, she had enver had any practice with raising her babies, and took very little interest in licking them or even noticing them. My son and I had to bottle feed them their first milk in order to give them the strength they needed to get up and find their legs. Even animals who are not encouraged to nurture and feed their infants can lose the desire to do so in a “normal” way.

It wasn’t long, however, before the babies had their instincts to suck and stand working and the mother cooperated and was starting to take an interest in caring for her babies.

Teaching our young mothers to bond with and nurture their offspring (whether human or animal) is very important and I have seen the results in humans when this is not done by the overworked and over stressed health care staff in hospitals.

A mother who raises her baby on a bottle is NOT in my opinon a “bad mother” and I am not suggesting that she is, but I AM saying that the teaching of young mothers to nurture and bond with their babies is a thing that is neglected in health care IMHO and this should be stressed.

I am glad that you are getting this book, Jill, I think it should be “required reading” for all teachers, cops, parents, grandparents etc. it is a well written and good “heads up” for us [email protected]

at first, when this thread was posted, I did not know how it pertains to me. Now, I am more and more concerned and am going to buy the book, but wanted to know your (all) opinion.
my oversexed overage X put candy on my daughter’s pillow. I thought it was a bit odd, especially since he bought nothing for our son. I also have had multiple complaints from her that she was not comfortable with him around. Her teenage girlfriends refused to come to our home when X was there. But, how do you get the girls to talk? I have asked numerous times and they say, he looked at them like a “dog at a bone” or touched them weird. He has very blurred sense of boundaries when around others: thinks nothing of patting a cheek, or kissing a stranger kid’s head. I never thought of him as a molester though. Thoughts?

KATY: You have 15+ years of experience and training, why are you asking for our thoughts? He is a child molester, he touched them weird? He has a “blurred sense of boundaries when around others” What kind of BS is that? You are making excuses for him!!!!!!!!

My 15 years experience and training does not involve working with children and it does not involve working with molesters. I asked a question for my personal growth and am hoping to get a more friendly response. I like to learn and I believe in asking when I am lacking in knowledge.

BTW, Shabbychic, Looking Weird, putting candy on girl’s pillow and patting a cheek does not hold up in court. Since I am building a case, it would certainly be of benefit for me to know more.

Oxy,

It’s interesting that you should mention this nursing information. I think breastfeeding is very important for infants. My son is going to be 15 months old next week and I still breastfeed him. I think this bond is important for us. I’ve studied a lot about breastfeeding and there are so many ways that it helps the mother/infant bond. There are studies that show that a mother who breastfeeds sees things from her baby’s perspective more and actually feels more empathy for her infant. Additionally, the oxytocin that is released calms mothers and helps their natural maternal instincts kick in. I think I’m going to wean him now that I am realizing my ex-husband (P)may have put me at risk for an STD. I going to go get tested this week this week and I’m not going to wait to wean my little one for the results. It’s not worth putting him at risk.

Katya, he DOES SOUND LIKE a groomer, but that doesn’t mean he has actually DONE it with these girls, but their 6th senses are kicking in and I bett’ya he was definitely thinking about it and working on grooming them.

You may not have any ACTs to take to court and the pressure on the girls to “talk” might not produce any solid evidence. The fact that they were avoiding him probably means to me that they were heads up and nothing actually happened.

Congrratulate these girls for being heads up and tell them in the future to TELL someone when they feel this way. Their instincts are GOOD.

Jill, I agree that the bonds formed between mother and child with breast feeding are beyond compare….not that a mother who does not breast feed can’t bond with her infant, but IMHO breast feeding is under rated and it requires nurture and help from an older woman with experience for a mother to succeed. Since the 1940s breast feeding has been “out of style” and that is a long time (several generations in most families) and there is no mom or grandmom or great grandmom to instruct the young women.

Since even most nurses have not breast fed and I don’t think realize the importance of this source of bonding with infants nurses generally don’t have the qualifications to teach breast feeding.

Interestingly enough, i worked with a nurse once who thought breast feeding would RETARD an infant…..she even told a young mother I was instructing in breast feeding this very thing. I was LIVID!!!!

Many very young women (14-17) leave the hospital after giving birth without any real bond to their infant because there is not enough time for nursing staff to focus on this very important aspect of the birthing process. I have seen those infants come back into the hospital with ‘failure to thrive” syncrome from lack of cuddling and interaction from their young mothers. the rush to get mothers OUT of the hospital and home now so they don’t use up hospital space doesn’t leave much time for staff to nurture these young women and their babies and teach them what they need to know and may not have gotten from their own mothers. Especially in the teenaged years when these young women are not fully grown themselves.

At one point I wanted to be a midwife and did help get laws passed in Arkansas to allow legal practice of midwifery, but the liability (legally) and the insurance necessary to protect oneself from law suits is not only driving out physicians who deliver babies but also nurse-midwives, which I think is a terrible thing for both mothers and children. If any baby is born less than perfect, the physician or the midwife is too many times sued when there was nothing that they did that caused the “bad birth” but they are “blamed” anyway.

However, if I ahd known what I know now when my infants were born, I would have had them at home with a good midwife rather than in a hospital. I did however nurse my infants and am glad I did. In fact, I baby sat for one of my friend’s kids while she worked and nursed her infant as well as mine while she was at work (she nursed him in the evenings and early morning so I only had to feed him a couple of times during the day) but even without a wet nurse to keep a baby during the day, a working mother CAN nurse her infant without too much trouble.

Oxy,

I couldn’t agree with you more about what’s wrong with the birthing experience today. Have you read Ina May Gaskin’s Guide to Childbirth? It was an excellent book and it helped me to put my mind at ease while I was pregnant and scared of the birthing process. I think her farm might be in Arkansas.

I did some research and talked with my midwife and learned that the birth and labor itself can actually be quite triggering to abuse victims. I did my best to prepare ahead in case I was triggered by birth, which I was. I decided to have a doula, who ended up being an absolute angel. We did hypnobirthing and it helped with the pain. I also had an amazing midwife. I had so much support and it was all female support, even the nurses. It helped with my triggers. I felt incredibly safe and was so helped and treated with a lot of patience and kindness. I think it was good that we all built relationships of trust first and worked through possible scenarios before the birth. We were all on the same page. I really feel that this way of birthing was good for myself and for my baby. It ended up being an empowering experience and we made it through a very difficult delivery healthy.

Coincidentally, breastfeeding can also be triggering for abuse victims who suffer from PTSD from the abuse. It has to do with the physical closeness and the uncomfortable effect of the oxytocin release that happens for the milk letdown with women who have a strong letdown and large supply, which I do. I had a difficult time breastfeeding and my son and I really had to work at it.

Just as a disclaimer to all who read this: I by no means judge people who don’t breastfeed. Mothers and babies have many reasons for not breastfeeding and each pair has to do what’s right for them. It just was important to me to make it work for many reasons. Mostly, I wanted to be able to bond with my son in that way, as my baby’s grandma never bonded his dad (sperm donor) in any way. I think it’s extra important that my son has a strong bond and has all of his needs met very well because of who his dad is and the genetic implications that go along with that. I know that there are many different ways to create this bond with a baby. For me, breastfeeding helped facilitate this bond.

To be able to successfully breastfeed, I read a great book and exchanged emails with a woman who is a psychologist who also happens to be an expert on surivors of abuse and infant bonding, specifically breastfeeding. I also had a lactation consultant and went to LL meetings often. I’m happy that my son and I made breastfeeding work. It was worth it.

It sounds like you know a lot about all of this Oxy. I think you would have made an incredible midwife, especially considering how knowledgeable and compassionate you are. You’re a Lovefraud midwife, helping us all along our way of having our little new life babies. 😉

Dear Jill,

Thank you, sweetie, I’m still not sure what i want to “be when I grow up” I am only 62 so haven’t decided yet! LOL that was one of the nicest things about nursing I think is that you can still be a “nurse” but there are many different careers inside that field. I have done several of them, and learned from each one things I was able to use in the next “incarnation” in nursing. None of the knowledge I gained in any of the specialties was lost, I was always able to put it to use in the next one.

I’m one of those “jack-ie of all trades and expert in none” sort of person I guess. I know a little bit about a lot of things but can’t call myself an “expert” in any one field, even within nursing. I worked in advance practice in the rural health clinics and I loved it, because you were the “family doctor” type of practice, making home visits (house calls) in a period when there are only a few physicians that will actually make a house call left in the US. I have always felt very wholistic toward medicine and nursing and that the psychological part of the patient is freqently ignored by many physicians in favor of a technical view of medicine. Sometimes all the patient needs is a hand to hold, someone who cares and some teachaing and reassusrance, not another prescription. that’s hard to do in a “six minute office visit”—-but I am ALSO very glad that tyhere are physicians out there who CAN take care of the very technical aspects of things like heart transplants, etc. that I would have no idea of how to work with…..

I was fortunate that my supervising physician during my 10 yrs of family or college medicine practice was a caring and knowledgable man who understood the wholistic approach.

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