Bureaucrats say victim is too upset for counseling

A woman in England is brutally raped. She is diagnosed with PTSD. When she goes for counseling, she cries. And amazingly, because she cried, she is denied further counseling.

Read Rape victim is denied NHS counseling after officials rule ‘it might make her upset’ in DailyMail.co.uk.

Link submitted by a Lovefraud reader.

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I had been discussing on another thread with Delta1 (a social worker in the UK) the challenges she has as a social worker in the UK in protecting children.

The “rationed” medical care and mental health care under the NHS in the UK that makes such decisions makes me wonder if they have lost their sanity! I also agree that our own US health care isn’t reasonable either (and don’t know what the new “national” plan will actually do—and really don’t hope that it will make things any better either when we do find out what it will do.) Frankly I don’t have confidence that ANYONE knows what it will do until it is in practice.

It seems the “bean counters” who decide who gets what treatment don’t have the least idea what treatment is indicated post rape. Frankly I would be more surprised if the woman was NOT “upset,” because it might mean she was DEAD already.

Yea for socialized medicine! NOT!!!!

This is sad. Has anyone noticed the recent study that MDMA works to cure PTSD in conjunction with therapy? I was reading that somewhere… let me link it here…


Also, I’d just like to say that I feel extraordinarily better… and I secretly suspect that someone on the blog has been praying about me, because my anger over the last week has almost but completely vanished. I feel wonderful, and hopefull… it was almost an overnight thingy – I’ll keep you guys updated, of course… but, I feel remarkably better.

Maybe it’s just from hanging around here, reading your stories, and participating, too… dunno.

But, radical turn-around nevertheless…

Good-luck to everyone on the blog trying to heal. There is really a light at the end of the tunnel. This is a great resource for us here at LF 🙂


wow, the stupidity of this is stunning.

p.s. rather a socialized medicine that helps some without money than a user pay system that helps none. people are denied the service they need every day in amerika…given shoddy treatment or none at all. this woman’s experience is not the ‘fault’ of socialized medicine per se.

She also had to endure a 3 year wait to get preliminary sessions. They really were timely in meeting her needs. Crap you could heal yourself, reinvent yourself, or go through reincarnation before these people can see you.
I have heard of heart surgery patients waiting months or more to get their time in socialized countries. If we go that route- say it isn’t so Joe.

Ummmm….don’t even know what to say to this one!

this reminds me of what Sarah Palin did in alaska. she decided that rape victims must pay for their own rape kits.
So if they can’t afford it, the rape wouldn’t even be investigated, because there would be no proof of it.
Geez, only thing worse than misogynist men is mysoginist women.

There is a word for all this and the word is BULLSHIT.

Therapists, social workers, media sluts and adminsitrators should not rule, control or direct.

Its ludicrous. Just!

Reminds me of a time I saw a priest invite a mom with a small child out of a church because the child annoyed him and he could not deliver his sermon with a child in a front pew.

What makes these people so omipotently important that they can use the inability to speak their peace and provide their service instead of giving care?

Its insidious and we have in history seen it before….

Liberte, Equalite, fraternite!

Pitchforks and torches everyone. Meet me at the Bastille!

Silvermoon, you are dead on. This IS exactly what you called it. And I’ll be happy to meet you at the Bastille!

What this woman endured is outrageous! I looked at her picture and I looked at his as well, the rapist. This is NOT the face of one filled with regret and remorse for what he did and SHE has to wait? And she can’t have treatment because she CRIED too much?

one-step, yes, the stupidity of this is stunning.

And the worst part? We’ve heard of this happening before and it will happen again. The perp gets treated better than the victim.

I have to go now and pick my jaw up because it hit the floor when I read this.

Oxy, I certainly agree that this is one of the major flaws of “socialized medicine.” However, I don’t think it’s just the NHS that’s lost its sanity. I think it’s the whole UK that’s lost its sanity. This incident, outrageous as it is, is still only one of countless outrages caused by the tyranny of idiot bureaucrats over there.

Reading the Daily Mail, which published this story, is quite an education. I read it with a kind of horrified fascination at all the garbage that’s been going on in Britain these last few years. Some of the stories are mind-boggling. Just to list a representative sample would take a very long post. To take an example at random here’s a story about a bunch of thieves who stole motorcycles–and police were not allowed to pursue these criminals because the criminals weren’t wearing helmets and might get hurt in a crash! Honestly, you couldn’t MAKE this stuff up!

The nation’s priorities have been turned on their head. One aspect is that instead of cracking down on criminals and other undesirables, the bureaucracy persecutes and rips off respectable, productive citizens, while rewarding idleness. Other aspects of reality have been turned upside down too. Some years ago there was a joke going round about the Multinational Corporation Executive’s Dream: “Living in England, on an American salary, with a Chinese wife and a French cook.” Despite the proverbially dismal weather, England used to be considered a great country to live in. For the record, the Multinational Corporation Executive’s Nightmare was said to be “Living in France, with an American wife (ahem, sorry, this was not my joke!) and a British cook… on a Chinese salary!” Mind you, I’m not sure what was supposed to be so dreadful about living in France… for anyone who speaks the language, that is, which the composer of that joke may not have done. But this preference seems to have been turned upside down today. Many British expats who write in to the newspaper say they’re glad they left, residents say they wish they could leave, and a fair number have moved to France (among other places) and like it better there. Britain, from these accounts, has been ruined.

I don’t understand how this craziness ever came to pass in a nation that’s traditionally been renowned both for its love of liberty and its stolid common sense. All I can do is hazard a theory.

You may be aware that there is a British political party called the Monster Raving Loony Party. Contrary to popular belief, this is not just a Monty Python joke. It is a genuine registered political party, started in 1983 by a guy who reveled in the name of “Screaming Lord Sutch.” The Wikipedia entry says they’ve actually won some seats in the UK, but only on local councils, not in Parliament.

My suspicion is that Wikipedia is not quite up to date on the party’s electoral track record. I think the Monster Raving Loony Party must actually have been in power in Britain for the last thirteen years, having secretly changed their name to “New Labour” (or “Nu Lie-Bore,” as Daily Mail readers spell it), with the late Screaming Lord Sutch reincarnated as their leader Tony BLiar and subsequently as his replacement, Golden Brown. It’s the only explanation I can think of for the monstrous outburst of raving looniness that’s been infecting Britain this last decade and more.

Dear Red,

Thanks for your great response! I’d heard those jokes but they are a couple of my favorite ones! The reason jokes are “funny” is that they hit a nerve of truth. I think though that the way France is going recently it is also changing considerably. “Lord Sutch” has some American incarnations as well. (BTW Monty ROCKS!)

I discovered the Daily Mail and have been reading it daily lately for its “shock value” and unintended “humor.” It actually almost makes the things that are happening in the US seem tame by comparison! I had to read something that would give me a break from current American politicos. When the jury was deadlocked yesterday on 23 of 24 charges against “Bloggo”—all I could think of was that Charlie Manson and Ted Bundy should have been so fortunate to get such a jury!

I do realize that “socialized medicine” isn’t to blame for everything in the world that is wrong, but danged if it isn’t to blame for a great deal of what is wrong with medicine at least. In fact, I think we have had “socialized medicine” here in US with Medicare and insurance cos telling docs what to Rx or not—and the advertizements of “free” scooters and Rx meds on television directly to the consumer “creating a need” in reality, rather than filling a need. Plus, the price of these “free” scooters is so outrageous you could buy the people a car for the same price as the scooters…so the person, who COULD get by well enough with a manual chair or a walker, gets a $7-10,000 electric scooter that they don’t have enough cognitive ability to operate, and it is sold for $150 at their estate auction in UNUSED condition. (that is a real example by the way!) In fact, I bought that chair for a friend of mine who DID need it and couldn’t get one because he couldn’t afford the 20% co-pay and didn’t have the “Medigap insurance” (he couldn’t afford it) to make a chair “free.” (Otherwise he would have qualified for one “free”)

Yes, “raving looniess” has been infecting the world, I think! LOL

Reminds me of the time we went on vacation to Seattle. We went across the bay to Victoria, B.C. I had rented a car and pulled up next to an attraction we wanted to see. There was a parking meter, so I pulled out some coins from my pocket which were not accepted. I asked a local woman why it would not work, and she replied, “do you have any Loonies”? I said, no. Then she asked, do you have any toonies? At this point everyone thought the world had gone crazy, but alas she gave us some as a gift to dumb visitors to a new country who didn’t bother to research this first. I was going to go even more crazy if they said the dollar bill was a “Tweety Bird”, or a “Foghorn Leghorn”.

So much is WRONG in our society and this is just another example of NOT helping the victim. Victims are commonly criticized for staying in a horrible situation and it’s typically attributed to the victim being fooled. I venture to say that’s rarely the truth. The victim knows when they are being abused and most who seek help, well, might have to wait a few weeks and they might get a few days help. In the meantime anyone trying to escape the grips of a sociopath knows they’re on their own and he/she is being terrorized with NO HELP from anyone. I say it is FEAR and LACK OF RESOURCES that keep victims involved with sociopaths. But of course, it’s just easier all the way around if no one actually believes me – then doing NOTHING to help makes sense.

Dear Deb, it is difficult to get help or to get validation for your pain, fear, or whatever you need. I read a book here about a woman who had been stalked for 40+ years (longest on record by FBI) she was beaten in the streets back when it was a “family dispute’ and even with her broken bones the cops wouldn’t drive her to the hospital, they were “not a taxi.”

It is finally coming to society’s notice that there IS ABUSE that is not just a “family dispute” but it is going to be another generation or two I think before it is addressed even in the USof A or Canada or UK as it should be.

I think there are various reasons people stay in abusive relationships, not having help and support is only one of them. Sometimes we are in Denial and keep thinking if we will just love them more they will change, or give them time…etc. many people here have looked back later and seen many different reasons we stayed, but most of us have also been invalidated by our family, friends, the sociopath themselves, cops, neighbors and even ourselves.

I’m glad you are here, LF is a great place for support and learning about them as well as about ourselves. Welcome! God bless.

Teacher123, you are so “loonie!” LOL ROTFLMAO You gave me a chuckle!

Hey my sista loonies or brudda toonies-
I watched tv night, it was the chinese news, in english. They were reporting about the big tech convention, basically all the things that an ipad could do. the teleprompter broke. he had to finish the IT report READING FROM A PRINTED PAPER. LMAO!!

Sorry for the irreverece Deb, had to get my giggle out of the way.

Just my observation based on all too true experience.

I was a severely abused kid. Raped by my father at age 8, constantly beaten by my mother. People knew. NO one stepped in. Sometimes abused kids have NO social skills, they are angry, dirty, and definitely not cute. So no one wants to take that on. They prefer to pretend it’s not that bad for the kid, otherwise the Kid would holler right? Wrong. B/c it is normal or so shameful, that kid will protect their abusive parent against anyone who tries to help. Now THAT is the tragedy of society.

People rescue the cute puppy, not the ratty half starved mongrel. (with apologies to Oxdrover about rescue dogs. Truth is, my mom raised collies when I was young. when I was bad, very often after my beating, I got banished to sleep with the dogs. I never told her I LIKED it, that it wasn’t a punishment to me. THe dogs were sweet, loving, kept me warm, and none of them ever hurt or yelled at me. That is where I think I learned compassion b/c I became VERY protective of them.)

Dear KD,

I am so sorry that you experienced so much trauma at such a young age..but I am glad that you had the dogs for comfort. I understand I think what you mean too about people KNOWING and not “interfering” in another family’s “business.”

Around here I have heard stories of men who severely beat their wives with clubs, and the tale was told but no one took the man out behind the wood shed and showed him what it felt like to have a club taken to you. Some of the stories of direct abuse and abuse by neglect or laziness and poverty as a result of the man’s laziness, drinking etc. would curl your hair—just about as bad if not in some cases worse than anything I’ve read on LF, so you can only imagine how bad. AND NO ONE DID ANYTHING EXCEPT TALK ABOUT IT.

Actually there was the “rule of thumb” law in my state that said a man could use a stick on his wife as long as it was no bigger than his thumb in diameter. That isn’t just an old “wives tale.”

The stories of abuse of kids too was common.

Occasionally someone in more current times would be prosecuted. A man in this community who rented a house from me, actually my grandparents house after they died, was sent to the pen for incest with his 13 year old daughter.

There’s a new program on TV now called “what would you do?” and it is a candid camera type show, it shows people “in trouble” of some kind, and films what the people who walk by them on the street do or not do. It is interesting to see how people react. Some actually do stop and take protective or compassionate action toward the “abused” person….many do not.

I read a news article about some kids who were being beaten by the step mother as they drove down I-40 interstate highway. The oldest girl about 12-13 text her mother what was going on, and mom called the state troupers (several states away) and a cop caught the car with dad and step-monster in it, and the kids, bruised and bleeding…took the kids away from the adults, and called CPS in his state to get the kids until the mom could drive from her state to get them. CPS REFUSED to take the kids. It ended up the state trouper took them home with him until mom got there 16 hours later. I hope what ever social worker turned down those kids gets fired…someone’s butt need a hiding for that one!

Helping others actually gives our brains a shot of “feel good chemicals” but sometimes –for many reasons–people walk on by or don’t want to get involved, or are afraid to get involved.

I’m so sorry that you fell between the cracks and there was no adult there caring and compassionate enough to care for you. No child deserves to be treated like that. But the fact that you turned out well, with caring and compassion yourself, proves to me that people do have choices, and that no all children who are abused become abusers themselves. We can be better people and better parents than our parents were. God bless and give you peace. ((((Hugs))))

Dear OxDrover,
That’s crazy and highly unacceptable what the stepmother did to those kids. My mother is a vixtim of abuse herself yet she continued the cycle. She used to beat on us when we were children. My aunts called the police one night.
I don’t know whether to call it a quits in my relationship with my little sister or to have more patience. My mother keeps pressuring her to allow me to hangout with her friends. I enjoy her friends. Now, one of her friends likes me a lot. Since I don’t have a phone in this foreign country, he calls her cell phone. Last night, I caught my little sister complaning (lying) to my mom that I waste her credits. Her phone system is sort of like a go-phone. The funny thing is the guy pays to call me, so it doesn’t affect her phone credits at all. I think she’s upset because I’m dating a lot these days. She has a boyfriend but still feels the need to flirt around. She thinks what I am doing is wrong because I’m dating more than one guy. This day and age, there’s a difference between dating and becoming boyfriend/ girlfriend. I don’t have a boyfriend but I’m talking to guys to see which will be a fit. But I think she’s mad because she didn’t get that opportunity. Yesterday night, I confronted her about talking about my personal business to my mom. The funny thing is she wants me to keep it a secret on who she is dating from my mom. I don’t think that its fair that she can talk about me behind my mother’s back but then expect me to keep her secrets. Especially keep the annoying things she does between her and I. She’s only two years younger than me and Ithink its about time she starts acting a little more mature.

KD: I agree with you. Most kids whi are abused are scared to death of what their parents will do. My mom used to threaten us if we tell the social worker what she did. She used to beat my younger sister with electrical cords just after she got in a fight with my grandmother or forgetting her eraser at school. My mother is even afraid now if I go to counseling or speak to others about what happened. My dad, the sociopath, is afraid of me speaking out that he even tries to paint a horrible picture to others he feels I’ve told about his character.

Dear Hurtnomore,

When you are living in a dependent situation, where your shelter and support depends on others (your mother and/or father) it is difficult to defy them without adversely effecting yourself and your situation.

From the stories you have told about your family as a whole it sounds to me that the situation is dysfunctional in many MANY ways. YOur desire for friends, both male and female is a normal thing for your age, and troubles with your sister is also a normal experience for even a fairly functional family.

The “drama” of the interactions between your family members, your mother and your father and sibs and other family members, with each telling you how you “should” behave and so on is “drama.” Not healthy for your development.

However, just because we came from dysfunctional or even abusive backgrounds does not mean we have to choose to continue in this situation, or to continue to associate with the people who are or were abusive or controlling. There is also the aspect of culture involved as well as generic “dysfunction” as some cultures encourage this “drama” and adherence to various rules. Like some cultures the parents determine the marriage partner of the daughter with little or no input from the daughter’s desires. If someone tries to NOT be controlled by this cultural construct, the family may go into a tail spin and even perform an “honor killing” by killing the girl who resists.

So it is difficult to say what is culture and what is dysfunction. However, you do have a choice! When you are financially independent and on US soil, you can determine how you allow others to treat you. Or if you associate with them or not.

In cases of extreme abuse (like beating) even now, you have resources in the police.

It is tough to grow up in a household of drama but you are so close to being able to escape and make your own choices and decisions, so cultivate patience. (((Hugs))))

I do think people who have been abused are easier pickin’s for these predatory S-paths. I realize that was my downfall. I LOOKED for a great guy and he was. It was his role. ANd once things started downhill, I tried to FIX it, stayed wayyy too long b/c after a while, I was isolated and felt like what’s what point. No one ever wants me.

I am beyond him now. B/c I WANT ME.

I have lots of life philosophies. Regarding pubic abuse of other people, I call it “NOT ON MY WATCH”. I know my mom got away with stuff b/c no one, NO ONE, said NO or stop or what the hell are you doing?

I step in EVERY TIME. Not into danger, into being a witness. I will take a picture, write down license plates, TELL the perpetrator that I took a picture and have called the cops, etc….

I think if people realized they don’t have to actually physically get involved, that all they have to do is be a witness and TELL the abuser they are being watched, then the abuser won’t think it’s so okay to do.

As far as my s-path goes, he was ALL mental, emotional, verbal, financial, sexual…. NOTHING stopped him. But for others, yes, NOT ON MY WATCH.

Dear OxDrover,
I feel so different than my other siblings and my other family members. I’m not afraid to go get help or to write here whatever is going on. My other siblings except the youngest feels that they owe my family their time and resources. The fact that I cutoff and that I’m going to cutoff family members is in their mind out of the question. My mother and her side feel that I should be getting into fights or arguments. This whole mentality is to show that we are “strong”. I’m going away to college next week in another state. This is going to decrease the drama only cause I pay my own phone bill. So I’m not obligated to call every day. Next year I hope to gain scholarships and grants a lot more to weed out my dad in paying my tuition. But since I’m getting a campus job this also decreases my time dealing with my father. I’m going to college 4-5hrs away from home. As for my mom’s side the only ones I can handle are my grandmother and my mom’s stepdiblings. I can’t handle her two stepsisters. There’s so much to do at this particular college.

Dear Hurtnomore,

I am so glad that you will be able to go to college and also glad that you will be quite a ways away from home and the drama.

Being sane in a world of insanity is difficult, but you can do it. I think you are very strong. We all had a lot to learn when we realized we were not the crazy ones. LOL So keep on learning and growing and reaching toward the sky! (((Hugs)))

ps.; what major course of study will you be studying?

Dear OxDrover,
I hope to really do well when I go away next week. I’m majoring in Human Service Studies. I really want to be a social worker particularly a family social worker or a child social worker. My parents fear that I will barely get paid with the major I chose.

Dear Hurtnomore,

Well, that profession is not a high paying one, and jobs are usually for those with a master’s degree, but at the same time, MONEY IS NOT THE ONLY MOTIVATION FOR A JOB—if your job is only motivated by money, you will be very unhappy.

I think the course of study may help you mature and learn to take care of yourself, and also giving back to others is a good thing for us all. Personally having some of understanding of what a child who is abused feels like is also a good thing for a social worker as well.

I hope you enjoy your course work, make wonderful new friends, and start to experience your independence in adult life.

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