This week we received the following email:
My daughter is married to a man I consider a psychopath. My daughter has not spoken with me for many months. She has totally changed her personality, voice, she says things she never would have said before, she attacks me to my friends. My daughter and her husband seem to have their own version of reality, truth, and morality that is not consistent with those outside her marriage or in the world. My husband doesn’t want to invite them to our house for the holidays or have anything to do with them. I feel the same way, too, because of their attacks and saying things that are not true about us. I have gotten advice on this blog to try and have a relationship with her no matter what (she needs us if she ever comes out of this relationship or if she comes out of the fog) and to not say anything negative about her husband. (The prior question.)
I really need more advice on what to do. She called my friends and has repeatedly said lies to them, then she called my husband at work and lied to her father. She has totally changed. I kept thinking she would snap out of it and go back to her “old self”. She used to have affection for us. She never would have lied to us or about us. Is this what happens when you live with a psychopath? Can they so change you that you see the world through their eyes or perspective? She used to be so happy and so much fun to be around. I don’t know how we could be around them now. Do you just agree with their reality and say you are sorry for things they said you did, even though you didn’t do them? It seems like a power struggle and the psychopath wins. It seems like the reason they are calling our friends is because they want to stir up drama and win some kind of “battle”. Our life was so even and no drama before our daughter met the psychopath. I am amazed how one person can affect so many lives for destruction, evil and suffering.
This is very hard to know how to respond to my friends, daughter and husband. Could you please give me some advice?
There are three questions here and I will try to answer each one:
(When you comment on this article please reference these question numbers.)
1. She never would have lied to us or about us. Is this what happens when you live with a psychopath? Can they so change you that you see the world through their eyes or perspective?
2. What do we do about a sociopath/psychopath’s smear campaign?
3. Can we still save our daughter?
Question #1 Is this what happens when you live with a psychopath?
The answer is definitely yes. This is what happens when you have any association with a psychopath, no matter how you know them and whether or not you live with them. This is why I strongly encourage family members to cut the sociopath/psychopath off. Sociopaths/psychopaths whole way of relating to the world is about power and control. This need for power and control is very personal. They do it one person at a time, one victim at a time. They do it very systematically with malice and forethought. When they succeed in hurting someone or getting another person to hurt him/herself or others, they step back, revel in it and say, “I did it again, s__t I’m great!” (they use a lot of foul language also.).
Never forget this
Sociopaths/psychopaths get off on controlling people and hurting people. That is why we don’t understand them, and are unable to predict their behavior. To let this sink in emotionally do the following: Next time you eat that piece of chocolate cake, have an orgasm, or watch your favorite team win at sports, focus your attention on the pleasure you feel, and say to yourself, “This is what a psychopath experiences when he controls or hurts another person.” Once you do this a few times you will have no problem understanding them or predicting their behavior.
Since sociopaths/psychopaths lack the brain wiring and chemicals necessary for love, they can only experience pleasure in relationships through power, control and sex. When a normal person says, I love you, he means he has affection for you and “cares” for you. We call it caring for a reason. When we love someone we take care of that person. If we really love someone we also take care of everyone in that person’s family.
When a sociopath/psychopath says, I Love you, he means I own you. When a sociopath/psychopath really “loves” someone they own everyone in that person’s family, including and especially parents, siblings and any children. When you own something you can take pleasure in it however you want. Again this is very up close and personal, There is nothing distant or impersonal about a sociopath/psychopath’s way of relating to others.
How do victims become psychopathic?
It is important to remember that all non-relative victims are to some degree tricked or fooled into the relationship. The need not to acknowledge the profound mistake causes them to lose contact with reality. Their brains are busy constructing the imaginary world they wish to be in. The victim therefore enters what may be called a hypnotic state. Hypnotic states involve shutting out reality and attending to only certain parts of it. In this state, the victim is easily manipulated. What the victim is willing to do may or may not be a reflection of who he/she is. The evil deeds may reflect the victim’s response to selective perceptions. For example, perhaps the daughter in the story above is now so confused about love that she believes the lies.
The process I describe above also applies to families. The less affected family members do not want to admit that their family has psychopaths (because usually there is more than one) in it. They want to have the perfect family as much as anyone else. They therefore normalize and justify ALL of the psychopath’s hurtful controlling behavior.
An ugly side of victim psychology
Since our drives are contagious, a person who is with a loving person becomes more loving. The person who is married to the power obsessed becomes more power obsessed. This can occur outside of conscious awareness. Part of being power obsessed involves delight in both aspects of victory-delight at being a winner and delight at the loss of the loser. People who are not power obsessed usually feel empathy for the loser. The brain power system turns off the brain empathy system.
Get away from that psychopath before his/her behavior rubs off on you more than it already has!
Question #2 The psychopath’s smear campaign
Please check out the other posts on this topic. A colleague recent told me a very similar story so I will address this again in detail soon. My inclination would be to ask the friends to tell their daughter and her husband not to call. If they call after being asked not to they may be prosecuted for harassment. That will put a stop to the drama. Please focus your attention on addressing this specific problem-the phone calls. The drama comes from the context of this problem. (Daughter in the clutches of a psychopath.) Try to make light the silly lies, that way the psychopath can’t win.
Question #3 Can we still save our daughter?
There may come a time when you will feel the need to let go and live the rest of your life as best you can. Only you can pick that time for yourself. Statistics show that the more psychopathic a person is, the more prone to life failure he/she is. In other words most psychopaths screw up, A truly successful psychopath is so rare that I have never verified a case- again it depends on how you define success. I mean this: all of their relationships are eventually broken, they lose their jobs, they have no real friends and they can’t manage money. They also suffer from ill health because they don’t take care of themselves, They also get into accidents and their life span is 15 years less on average. If the man in question here is a psychopath, he would be in the extreme minority if he is NOT cheating sexually or bringing them to the brink of bankruptcy.
The question here is whether this will take so long to run its course that the victim will lose herself completely. When that happens there is great risk of suicide when the relationship falls apart. So if you do decide to back off of the relationship, that would be time to set the record straight perhaps in writing something like: No matter how old you are you are still our little girl and we have loved you since the day you were born. Your choice of a partner has hurt us so much that we must ask that you not call us or have contact with us until this relationship ends. No matter what else happens, we will always welcome you back into our loving arms.
Has a sociopath/psychopath’s influence caused you to do things or be involved in things you regret?
Please comment below.
In regard to: I am amazed how one person can affect so many lives for destruction, evil and suffering. I had the benefit this week of talking with one of my ex-husband’s other victims. In comparing notes, it was clear, the man has harmed everyone who has had the curse of connecting with him. This is the mark of a person with psychopathic personality traits. Since he cannot love he can only do harm. He doesn’t know any other way of being! Just like an apple tree produces apples because that is what it does, the sociopath/psychopath hurts because that is what he/she does.
For my own sanity, I have written down somewhat of a journal of my experiences with the sociopath in my life. I guess when this man’s own cousins wife, who is an RN and works the psych patients finally told me in a lengthly phone conversation that he was sociopathic, extremely deceitful, pathological liar, stole his dads identity and used his dad’s social security number (they have the same name) so now his fathers’ ssn record is tied in with this mans.
This man I am writing of is my husband, or so I thought. We married almost 3 years ago. We are both older adults. How do you begin to explain how you are sucked in when you have a constant sick feeling in your stomache, what is it that compells us onward with these beasts? Is it the absolute facination of who they spin our world, the charm, the pouring out of their love and devotion, the dizzying speed in with they infiltrate themselves into your life? We as women, especially women who had been neglected as a child by a parent are precisely what these predators hone in on, it’s like invisible infrared they hunt for. Do we wreak of it? Even for those of us who put on a gaurded, wise attitude towards them, and they somehow flatter the snot out of us as they are reeling us in.
If you are intersrted to hear the whole story, I will be glad to help in any way I can.
I will add here what is happeing presently.
Before we married, I was living in another state, he had recently moved to another state himself for reasons I will explain later. He begged me to leave my home, pack up and sell whatever I could to join him. I did, believing in the future he said he had there, his dreams he had for us, blah blah blah. I asked two things of him conditionally before I would move there. 1. to get his divorce papers in hand and have them ready for me when I arrived there, 2. That he saved enough money for us to pay for 1st months rent, utilities so on.
None of that happened. Too late, he had me, I had no home to go back to, I sold almost everything I had.
To fast forward. Recently, after 4 years of being involved with this man, I felt I would break after our 8th move in two years. I started thinking again about how he handled the divorce papers after I joined him in the other state. When I demanded that he get a copy, he told me he would. A few weeks later, he came home from work with them in hand. At the time I was soooooo weary, just lost my father a week after moving there, greiving over that, I looked them over and did notice that it was a copy from the lawyers office, and a date was crossed out and a different date was written in.
I guess at that point, I chose or was too tired to make an issue out of it. 2 months later we got married in a tiny chapel.
Anyway, here and now, I have grown extremely tired of the constant lies, promises, repeated mistakes over and over and over without any lasting change. So I mentioned to him that I wanted some real proof of his divorce, like a divorce certificate. He almost passed out in front of me. He quickly told me that he was divorced and I told him I wanted proof, not a copy of a document that was tampered with. I started to suspect he changed some dates himself and made a copy of a tentative document the lawyer had drawn up. I always thought it was strange that he had them send it to his work address.
This all happened just a few days ago, last week actually, and he has become a man I don’t recognize, Oh my gosh, I could go into great detail but later I will.
I took it upon myself to get a copy of the divorce certificate from the court he supposodly was issued the divorce without his knowledge, He thinks he’s in the clear but still worried because he is now laying it on thick, as a distraction I’m sure until he thinks I have forgotten and move on with him. I haven’t mentioned anything more about my concerns of him being legally divorced since last week. I have had to learn how to manipulate as well and I hate it more than you can imagine to see myself having to play some of the sick mind games he has.
I will write more if interested to see how I am going to make it through this nightmare and where and how I have gotten the strength
bibleAnnie:
Speaking as a lawyer, most court clerk’s offices would not accept papers for filing which have dates crossed out and hand-written in. Also, the document you would want to see regarding his divorce is the court decree, which would be issued by a judge with the judge’s signature. So, you are proceeding in the right direction on this.
Bigamy is a crime in every state. If you think he has committed bigamy, as a victim of his crime you should go see the District Attorney’s Office pronto. They will be able to verify immediately whether he has obtained a divorce. If he hasn’t and he married you, getting him out of your life may be taken care of by the DA’s office.
Bibleannie:
I commend you for keeping your eyes open and coming here and reaching out.
Self awareness and education are important to seeing our lives clearly.
It sounds as if you feel you are / have been conned.
If you want out, you have to play the ‘game’. You have a ‘leg up’ since you are so aware of the behaviors and deceit.
I will tell you, it is doable…..it will take diligence, documentation and learning ‘what’ makes him tick to be able to manipulate him and get you out with as much sanity, assets and money as you can for your future.
You need to find the strength every minute and keep up your goal……Focus on the ‘prize’……
Whether that it just getting out, getting out with assets, or whatever…..
He will not change, and I read in your post you realize this.
Protect yourself, never let him know what your up to, remain strong and read, read, read about what your up against.
There is a lot of good advice here, and you can always ask for help…..someone is always around to listen and give you feedback.
It’s a journey…….but when your out, life begins!
Welcome and sorry for your pain.
XXOO
EB
Bibleannie:
Also, all court records are viewable online with the courts.
You can type in his name on the county records website.
This info might be helpful…..
WHo knows what else you might find?
I went jback and read this article and all the comments below it. I thought it was quite interesting article firs tof all, and an EXCELLENT one, and secondly I was interested in the list of comments, and how so few of those people are still here.
Bibleanne, wecome to LF and I think Matt gave you some good advice. sorry that you got conned by this man, but you are in “good company’ there ar ea lot of bright bright people here who have also been conned, so don’t beat yourself up for it happening to you! (((hugs))))
Erin, I may be wrong, but I don’t think ALL court records are online in ALL areas at least. Hopefully some day they will be.
Thank you ErinB, Matt and OxDrover.
After I wrote this I received the official divorce document in the mail. At first I was emotionless, I hate to say it but I was praying that he wasn’t divorced from his previous wife . It would have made things so much less complicated for getting out.
In two weeks we are moving again (8 times in 2 years) just a few streets over.
He works 2 minutes away from the neighborhood we live in (literally). I am not working now because I finally stood my ground. I have no credit cards, mainly by choice and live a very frugal life. I have made every effort to not put any financial burdens on him other than the food his money buys and living under his roof. The only thing he provides for me is what he would be providing for himself anyway. I tried to work, three different places, it was a nightmare, at my weakest he would hold his hand out every morning for money, I earned tips. He sucked my dry. If that wasn’t bad enough, he would call me at work 5 to 10 times a day telling me he just wanted to say hi. I am a hairstylist so it was a big problem, I tried to explain this to him. He just casually laughed it off but continued. Sometimes he would just show up at my job, thinking the whole world revolved around him when it came to me. Again, it constantly caused prolems, co0workers would get upset, they seemed to like him but it caused friction for me.
The job I took here in town was right across the street from where he works now. Same thing, I tried to reason to myself that it was sweet because he just missed me so much. I now realize it was a constant checking up on me.
He is and always has been very, very observant. He notices if a book has been moved off the bookshelf. I have joked with him about that and he always told me it was what he developed in Martial Arts. He checks the caller id on our phone, he’ll check to see the calls on my cell phone.
My God, I don’t go anywhere, I stay at home except for the ocassional visit with my sister or to go shopping during the day. He says’ he’s just concerned for me and cares so much.
If he wants something, he will groom me for sometimes weeks in advance. I swear I don’t know how he does it. It’s always for something he wants even though he has right now over 10,000 in debt to medical and hospital bills. His truck payment it 4 payments behind. I have just never seen anything like this.
My point is that I quit bailing him out. I decided if he wanted me around, he would have to provide for me and not the other way around. So far, he’s smeared me to neighbors, co-workers telling them that I can’t keep a job, or that I don’t keep a clean home, and that I have a mental disorder. Of course he never shows any of these concerns to me. He pretends that I am perfect and he’s such a wonderful man. He plays the pity game with others. I can’t tell you the times he’s lied or fabricated something anything, and then later on the person he told a story to brings something up and I just sit there dumbfounded. One of his co-workers over the summer invited us to his daughters grad. party. This man asked me where we met and how long we were married. My husband was out of earshot when he asked me. I simply told the truth. this man looked at me real funny. When I later asked my husband, he said that everyone where he works thinks we have been married forever. I felt so stupid, I told him this and that if he was going to tell stories to at least tell me what they are so we can lie and tell people the same story.
I just don’t get it all. Is he retarded? Seriously,
He also talks baby talk all the time, he’s nicknamed me poop and even calls me that in the presence of others.
Can someone help to enlighten me on this aspect of his nature
bibleAnnie:
He isn’t retarded — at least not mentally. However, these creatures are emotionally retarded — it’s like their development got stuck at age 2. Their staggering sense of entitlement, their egocentricity — it is like watching your average 2 year old. While that “wounded little boy” act is enticing and charming up front, it grows old really fast. I am no advocate of physical punishment — my parents beat the crap out of me repeatedly as a kid — but, there were days, at the end of my relationshit with S, where I would think to myself “Your parents didn’t beat you damned near often enough when you were a child.”
I understand your not wanting to work out of fear S will screw up another job for you, but I am concerned because you are putting yourself in a postion where you are financially dependent on him and are going to make it harder for you to extricate yourself from this situation. Also, while you may think you are dodging his financial problems (late car payment, etc), if he acquired these things after you got married, this will be considered marital debt and you will be on the hook for it. So, if you are thinking of getting out, you are better off getting out sooner rather than later and curtailing the financial damage you are going to take from this marriage.
Bibleann, I didn’t realize you were still LIVING WITH HIM! You need to get AWAY ASAP!
You need to start stashing money somewhere and making a plan to escape. You have to start acting very boring. they can’t stand boring. I tell everyone this: do not show emotion. Become a boring grey rock. It’s the only thing that makes them go away. No emotional responses. But while you are waiting for him to go away, you must start planning your escape from him.
Everything you describe is same old, same old. The memorizing where things are trick, is just that. He probably directed your attention to that book so that he could impress you with his “ability”. Then he will reinforce it over and over again. It’s pathetic that he would spend so much time thinking up ways to con you into believing that he has this superhuman ability. This is all about getting you to see him as he sees himself “larger than life”. Then you will be less likely to ever cross him.
You must start seeing him for what he really is: an infant in diapers. keep that visual in your mind whenever you interact with him. But keep it to yourself.
Bibleann,
I agree with everything Matt says. Additionally, I think it is part of your husbands plan to keep you from working. He wants to isolate you and make you dependant on him. The longer you allow this the worse it will get. He will slander and sabotage everywhere you find a job.
You need to outsmart him. Find a place to work and tell the employer your situation. This employer and all co-workers would need to be forewarned that he will be doing this. They should go along with his games so that he will feel he is succeeding. you need to know what he is up to, so you have to arrange for this method to succeed. If he doesn’t succeed he will find another method.
Read as much as you can about the narcissistic personality disorder so that you can stay 2 steps ahead. But don’t let him catch you learning about it.
Again, I do need and appreciate all the advice. I am seeing that even though I think I’ve got him all figured out, the things mentioned in comments shows me it just never ends, It’s almost gotten to be “laughable” and I do mean it sincerley when I say that I am actually relieved that I am able to be able to see it this way instead of the absolute oppression that used to grip me.
Yes, I did not mention either that Matt, you are right, he has arranged for me to have a vehicle that is from where he works, it is a used vehicle and he initially told me he talked with the owner and asked if he could buy it, it was going to auction. He told me that he was granted this and it would be deducted from his paycheck for 3 months until it was paid for. That was 7 months ago. I’ve asked him repeatedly to get the paperwork on it so I can see for myself. He will remind me of how blessed we are to have the car in the dealerships name, no insurance to be paid, anything. So, I am fast realizing that he’s got me stuck here. What a bastard!!!
I lost my new car I bought right before we married because he snuck to the place he refinanced his truck, (another one) to make his payment before the payment could go through for my autopayment. I had set it up to come out online from my bank, yes my bank. He had my bank card and took money out the day before mine was due to come out and went and paid on that truck. He lost the truck anyway due to 5 months of being behind.
I know I need to leave. I guess I could take his truck and risk it. Not sure what I will do, but it’;s strange, I feel at peace, in control and have already a few weeks back just acting very boring, I’ve cut off the “monthly” orgasmn (sorry to be so blunt) but that is all it has ever been. I tell him to get things himself and ignore his whining baby talk when he wants me to get something. I read alot more, am working on writing a novel, and just basically being selfish and acting like I don’t notice him hardly anymore. I’m not being cruel, I’m just starving him emotionally I guess. Sounds rotten I know, but I’ve learned the hard way that he will take anything he can get from me and exploit it for his own purposes.
I will tell you something sort of humorous. One day I took a number of items and switched them all around and of course, the first thing out of his mouth after walking in the door was did I move things arounds, (they were small items) and I said, no honey, I have no idea what you are talking about. Just wanted to see if he noticed. Of course he did.