By | August 3, 2009 264 Comments

Catch and release

Recently Lovefraud heard from a woman whom we’ll call Trina. Trina was involved with a sociopath for five years, who abandoned her eight months ago, after wrecking her financially and emotionally. Still, she continued to be in shock, denial and disbelief—until the guy sent her the following poem:

Catch and Release

Before I pull your hair and leave you for dead
I will ravish you
not physically, but with words sensuous and firm
with sibilance rolling off my chameleon tongue
and metaphors byzantine and allusive pitched
to that intimate space between your ears.
I will watch you wriggle with denial,
claw with anger, bargain for release,
splash like a drowning animal in hopelessness.
And when I observe the contour of your acceptance,
the precise moment your will bends pliantly to mine
I will release you.
Game over.

Trina was horrified, and when she communicated this to the guy, he denied that the poem was at all autobiographical. He said she needed to “lighten up;” she was too “up tight;” he’d just taken a line from a TV show and embellished it. Here’s how he explained it to Trina:

“I thought that was a great opening line and I twisted it a bit, threw in Elizabeth Kubler-Ross’s five stages of grief as I played on the word ‘dead’ and created a poem, role playing the braggart and using a line that fishermen do when they fish for fun and not food.”

“This man knows he drove me to the point of near suicide,” Trina says, “and rather than feeling badly for it, he actually taunts me, to this day.”

When there is no reason

Many sociopaths are parasites, manipulating people into giving them money, food, sex, a place to live—whatever. But some sociopaths, who may actually hold down a job and have their own resources, manipulate people, even torment them, just for the fun of it.

There are sociopaths who break women’s hearts just to watch them fall apart. There are sociopaths who commit crimes just to prove they can get away with it. There are sociopaths who disrupt workplaces for their own amusement. These people simply want to be puppet masters, pulling strings and watching everyone else jump.

This is probably the most difficult type of sociopathic behavior to comprehend. Many of us have spent hours, days, weeks, even years trying to figure out why a sociopath acted the way he or she did. Sometimes there is no reason other than the sociopath found the situation he or she created to be entertaining.

So how do we come to grips with this? How do normal people, who try to be considerate and cooperative, understand this behavior?

We can’t. These sociopaths are totally twisted. It’s just the way they are.

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I’ve been a long time reader but this is the first time I really felt compelled to comment. This is so creepy.

I struggle with my own story. I’m fortunate that there was no physical abuse, just financial and emotional abuse. I’ve been in denial & disbelief for a little more than 6 months.

I read this creepy poem and realize how incredibly lucky I am.


That is the exact same excuse my s/p/n used when I questioned him about what he had just said (a mean, derogatory remark),”Oh, I didn’t mean it that way” “It was just a line in a TV show that I was repeating”.

Elizabeth Conley

I think it’s very good therapy to read that poem, particularly if you were raised to think that people are basically well intentioned.

It’s smart to consider the possibility that a person you’re in conflict with is simply not negotiating in good faith. It can save a lot of confusion. Maybe it can even save pain.




The narcissiopath I was involved with could have written that. He certainly lived it. Totally.

and they DO steal lines from tvs, from movies, etc. because they steal anything they like and want. But they DO mean it.

My response when I finally got that he was doing EXACTLY what this poem states was to be anger filled of course, to feel ashamed, to feel stupid, to want revenge.

In the end I settled for letting him know I knew it was a game, and that my friends knew it was a game, that multiple copies of his emails were stored with various friends, that my deputy friends know his number and to stay away. I also warned women he was targeting and a few other things he doesn’t know about it. But basically I tried to contain him for the sake of others, the best I could, and I threatened him to make perfectly clear that if he ever comes anywhere near me again he will get harmed, greatly. And he will. I am woman, hear me roar! (for those old enough to remember that). Or “these boots are made for walking”…that works too!

See? Proof positive by Trina’s brave submission of the “poem” and the humanoids’ response to her righteous indignation that scum sucking, bottom feeding predators deserve NOTHING but our contempt, loathing, purest disgust due to their calculating, manipulative, evil machinations.

They are totally aware of the cruelty, flat out spite and childish revenge fantasies, the all encompassing MEANNESS of themselves and they don’t give a flying flip. Not one ounce of remorse, guilt or shame.

I curl my lip with derision in their direction as that’s the only emotional response these fiends will ever get from me now and in the future.

No contact indefinitely.

Peace for you Trina. May you heal and realize how wonderful you really are and that you most certainly deserve better than the pain and sorrow you received from parasite.


Ha! If I could write back to that guy, I’d say But beware….the game is not so fun if you hook a shark. Or your pole snaps and hits you in the face. Or you get pulled into the water face first. Or the bank gives out. Or a flash flood comes through. Or you’re fishing without a license and it’s a sting. Or while you are busy fishing and laughing your ass off, a mountain lion is thinking “hmmm, now…..or when he turns around???” Because honey, you ain’t as hot as you think you are….Your mistake was releasing me. Game is over indeed….and you’ve already lost and don’t know it.

Okay, okay…sinking to his level, but in fantasy it can be a release of another sort !

Seriously, the best defense is to know who you are, what you stand for, what you won’t stand for, and to not be afraid to draw your lines in the sand.

The more firmly you believe in yourself and your values and have your head on straight about what love really is, what integrity is, what matters in the world, the harder it is to get caught. Not impossible. The waters can turn murky. But best to only swim in crystal clear waters with other good, strong swimmers full of joy.

Trina, better days are ahead. I should mention that in the farewell note I told him he just happened to hit me at a low point and that he was not NEARLY as good at manipulating as he thought and that if I met him today, I would burst out laughing at his lines. And that I had faked every orgasm I ever had with him (which happened to be true), and that he was the worst excuse for a lover I’d ever had the misfortune to be with (which also happened to be true). My pride rose up and said DAMN IT. He is not going to be left with one single good memory of me if I can help it. 🙂

It was just what I had to do to feel good about myself. I didn’t care really what the impact was on him, because they take very single thing you say and do and turn it into a win for them, because THEIR BRAINS DON’T WORK RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!


jane – Will you compose a birthday card for my X for me?


I will dedicate a song to psychopaths everywhere:

See if you don’t think it is perfect?


As I mentioned in another thread, this so hits home for me. And justabouthealed, I also (7 weeks ago) told the S what I think-told him to read “The Sociopath Next Door” as it could have been written about him. I really do feel that he, like the guy who wrote this poem, gets some sort of rush from the cruelty of the D&D.

As I told my therapist last week, although I have been so tempted to “warn” people such as his boss; his new victim etc. it seems he has done a very good job of imploding without my help. He lost his best friend in me AND he was about to lose his job–he had to scramble to find a new job a hour and a half away before he was fired.


Well perfect at one point…when you are just realizing “I guess it was yourself you were involved wiht, I would’ve sworn it was me”.

“You’re so vain” used to remind me of the narcissiopath…and only a narcissiopath would think the description in the song is flattering!

My husband is a good man and he would be acutely uncomfortable if he thought all the girls wanted to be his partner….and would wonder what the hell is wrong with their superficial selves and would hold on to his wallet!


blindsided….good for you! As Dr. Phil says figure out the least thing you can do that truly gives you closure, do it and close it!

While killing him would have brought closure, I had to admit I could get closure with just a nice arrogant, threatening email. And every time I think of opening up to say one more thing, I read that and think , no, that was perfect. Leave it. closure.


One more thing, justabouthealed. My last zinger was in the form of an e-mail too- when I told him point blank that I think he is a sociopath and that I think he has “no conscience; no guilt; and doesn’t know love, and that he thinks of people as objects to be manipulated only to be discarded when he gets bored and that he is almost always bored “-and when I told him that I would not be contacting him and for him not to contact me.

And like you, I have thought since, of other things I could have added eg. sex was bad- he had both ED and PE. But I then I think, like you, that what I said was enough. And going on 8 weeks of NC, I have stuck to my word.

For you, Henry, da moon, sweetheart!



Great blindsided!! GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!Congrats SO MUCH on the 8 weeks. You can do it forever now! If you are tempted, or I am tempted, we have LF to support us!


After six months of sitting at this webiste studying and analyzing the last ten years of my life, I am today making my first post. “Catch & release” was spot-on. On Valentines Day of this year – after finding the word “Thief” written in white-out across my front window and a threatening letter taped to my door – I started Googling the bizarre behavior, “excuses that don’t add up”, “somethings never quite right”, “always trying to figure things out” personality traits of my N/S/P (the things that were making me sick day after day) and I found my way to Lovefraud. After an hour of reading, I was sobbing because suddenly it all made sense.

Now, six months later, I am going on my first week of NC. Actually, it’s been longer as I’ve been ignoring knocks and phone calls for close to three weeks but he surprised me in my parking lot last Wed, blocking my car and demanding his phone (which he’d tossed into my car in a tantrum before leaving the week prior because had I asked – yet again – about some strange numbers and, rather than tell the truth, he threw a fit and made himself phoneless as my punishment for my asking). My heart pounding, I got the phone and as I handed it to him, he pulled my expensive car stereo faceplate out from behind his back, remarked that I was a smartass to keep his phone (that he THREW in my car!!), and smashed it to the ground. Then he drove off, his eyes cold as ice.

I knew that his visit had NOTHING to do with that phone (he’s switched phones over 30 times in ten years – every time I got close to the truth). He’s mad that I have been pushing NC and he wanted to exert control and scare me – and he did – but not enough to answer the calls that started immediately after and lasted through Sat morning. I saw that he left lengthy voicemails before the calls abruptly stopped but I deleted them online and never listened. What’s the point? Now, nothing. But he WILL be back. Ten solid years of this over and over and over and over. And, although he HAS drained me financially over the years of course, money was never the biggest issue. For the most part, he has always worked. Everything my N/S/P did and does is for the simple, sick thrill of hurting me, making me cry, teaching me a lesson, making me beg, making me apologize (for nothing I did). The silent treatments (sometimes for weeks), the mysterious dissapearances, the two weeks on/two weeks off rotation I’ve been on for the last year, the unanswered questions, the ruined holidays and birthdays year after year without fail, the phone numbers, the list – as we all know – goes on and on. My N/S/P filed two Restraining Orders within the last year and then stalked ME. He accepted a summons for me and threw it out, costing me a missed court date 5 months later, a warrant, a night in jail, and $500.00. He becomes violent when I lock my front door – although I rarely know where he is living. He absolutely hates when I don’t answer the phone – but his is off more times than it is on.

Three weeks ago – quite suddenly and to the surprise of all my friends – I just went NC. Suddenly I didn’t care what his excuses were – because I knew they’d be LIES. I didn’t care if he said he loved me – because I know he CAN’T. Suddenly I didn’t care if he was with someone else – because he’ll be bored in 2 days like always. So far, so good. For some reason (probably because my son is away on vacation for 2 wks and I’m alone here), today’s been a little hairy for me but thankfully not enough to make me do something I’d regret. However, it was obviously enough to get me to post here – so that’s the good thing!

I’ve had thousands of red flags over ten years. Our second week together, after a fight, he looked at me and said, “I could take you or leave you.” And he meant it. That was the beginning of his control because I was a basket case after that. He is the Master of The Silent Treatment and it has, over the years, almost been the death of me. One romantic night in our fourth year, he looked into my eyes and asked very calmly, “Why do you love me? I don’t even call you.” About eight months ago, after he back handed me in the car and saw that he gave me what could have been a blackeye, he started crying, “I guess I’ve always figured I could do whatever I wanted to you and you’d take me back.” Boy, wasn’t THAT the truth. Until now. Enough is enough. He has taken ten years of my life. I can’t possibly give him the NEXT ten.

After six months of reading Lovefraud, I started to predict in my mind what he would do, what he would say, what he REALLY wanted, how it would end THIS time. It was amazing. I started to say to him, “I’m on to you – just remember that” and he would throw an absolute fit and call me crazy!! Oh, he hates when I say that!! What we DID have was a great sex life – for ten years. It never faltered – not one time – and THAT, more than anything, has kept him creeping back. And it has been THAT that has kept me from NC. Tonight, when I think of him touching me after all he has done, I am sickened. I know that MY silent treatment right now is driving him crazy so he’s trying to TOP my silent treatment with his much bigger, better one. Won’t work. I’m sure that the creepy things he does in the creepy, secret life he leads are not half as much fun to do when there is noone’s back to do them behind! Since he is incapable of love, I know that he hates me no matter what he says. He is incredibly insecure and will ALWAYS have odd numbers in his phone to feed his ego. There will always be horrible lies-by-ommission to make me crazy. Recently he said out-of-the-blue, “You’re the only one I’ve ever been with that doesn’t bore me. That’s why we’ve been together so long.” THAT statement was so telling to me and made me realize the scariest thing – he will never, ever leave. The leaving will have to be up to me.

Thank you, Lovefaud. I know that we don’t like that we’re here but we’re all glad we are. I know that if he knocks and I let him in, I’m done – even if it’s for one more week. One more week is too long. He is THE LIE. There will never be closure. There will never be answers. It will never get better. And – since he does it all for the thrill of hurting me and the satisfaction of the inevitable D & D – he will never TRULY leave. He WILL be back to do it again and again. And each time, it will be worse. There are no boundaries the NP will not cross. We can imagine our revenge but his revenge on our revenge will be the unthinkable, the unfathomable. My friends have a saying about my N/P/S: “Just when we think he can’t possibly do anything worse to you, he does.” Every single time. It is time to STOP our insanity. It is time to ask ourselves if we want to LIVE. It is time to give our ever-so-understanding children a break and begin being the mothers we should have been while we were chasing the N/S/P around, begging him to come back.

Not long ago, I started asking myself two questions and my answers bring me to tears every time. The first: “If I died tomorrow, what memories would my son have of me to get him through his life?” My honest answer is that he would remember how much I loved him but also how very sad I was so much of the time. What a horrible, horrible memory to leave for our children – and for what? For nothing. Our children are so resilient and so forgiving. They really just want us to be happy. We owe them that – for the sake of memories. The second question: If I knew I would die tomorrow, how would I feel about how I spent the last ten years of the only life I was given? The answer: Not good, not good at all. And it would be too late.

Sorry about the length of this post. I can’t believe I wrote finally after all these months. Thanks for listening. I hope, if I write again, that I will be in the same place that I am
tonight. NC one day at a time is all I can hope for.

super chic

luckyzb… Hello! I am so glad you posted, I hope you will write again, you are a wonderful writer, so spot on with your observations!!!! LF has really helped me a lot too. The past few days there were some posts on how we have to take care of ourselves and stop hurting ourselves by putting up with this kind of relationship, and it sounds like that is what you are doing, you sound very strong! Be tough! You can do it, you don’t have to be sad all the time, I was like that too, and what you said about your son is so true it hit me right in my heart, I cry and cry when I think about all the time I lost with my daughter when she was a teenager and I was just sad and obsessed over some guy. She is married now and lives 3000 miles away from me and the time I threw away on the N/S instead of having fun with her is one of the biggest regrets of my life.

You are also right about how they love to have the drama of having more than one person involved with them. When mine moved out because he found a free room somewhere else he said “I’m just going to stay out there, and I’ll come back here to see you” and I finally said NO! And I toughed it out and I’m glad I did. He had it all planned out in his mind, but I wouldn’t go along with it.

Please stay safe, he sounds crazy/angry. Please keep writing!


shabbychic…Thank you so much for your kind response. It wasn’t until a year ago that I had the epithany about my child. He is always so good, so kind, so on-my-side, that I took advantage of that (and so did my N/P/S) and just wallowed in my misery over the drama and the chaos and whatever hurtful situation he had created. One day, those two questions came to me and very slowly my thinking went in a different direction. Then I found Lovefraud and it was like an awakening – albeit a sad one – and I knew for the first time that there would be no answers, no closure, no reslove. The only thing I could hope for was relief – and that could only come from me and noone else. Certainly not from him.

As for your relationship with your daughter, you must forgive yourself utterly and entirely and be the best long-distance mom there ever was! It is all you can do….but it will be enough. Things have not been entirely our fault because we have been subjected to the Masters of Deceit. That we have come to realize anything at all or come out of it alive is a miracle. You are a wonderful mom. I know what you are feeling. But it is okay.

Now, today is a good day. I did feel that twinge today – but only for a second – and then I started writing. I am a writer by trade and I spend many hours of my day writing for others. Today was the first time I actually wrote something that had nothing to do with anything except me. This minute, it feels very good. Tomorrow, I hope the same. Now when I am driving and I start to wonder where he is or what he is doing, I just think, “It doesn’t matter where he is or what he is doing because, if he were here with you now, you know EXACTLY what he’d be doing – and it would just be another beginning to another horrible end…until the next time.” This always moves me on to the another thought. Realizing the definity of the fact that there will never be the closure we have been so desperately seeking has changed my level of anxiety. Not that I NEVER have the anxiety – it just exists at a copeable level.

Six months ago, I couldn’t see myself doing NC at all. I’d read about it, know it was the only way, yet never even attempt it. Then, within the past two months, he did one or two things that – believe it or not – I actually found unforgivable (even tho they were no worse than any of his other abusive antics) to the point that I could ignore the phone calls and the pounding at the door. It happened without me really thinking about it. Like my time for NC had come.

I’m not silly enough to think that I will never see him again. He will surface. My friend said to me yesterday, “Make sure it’s over for you because we all know that – as always – it is NOT over for him.” So, every day is a work-in-progress.

Oh yes, mine chooses to live in a hotel (and not a nice one) and complain about the daily rent rather than get an apartment. In fact, he hasn’t paid “rent” in over a year. He’d stay at his mom’s until she’d demand money and then he’d move on to his dad. When his dad kicked him out, he’d come here and have a pocketful of cash while I struggled to pay the bills. When I finally lost it and demanded money, he’d pack his stuff up and stomp out – after being here months – and move on to whomever happened to be left out of his friends. He fully expected to live for free everywhere since, well, he was “saving” for an apartment. Once in awhile he’d buy something – toilet paper or food – but it was all about him and not helping. Disgusting, selfish behavior no matter how you look at it. I couldn’t believe the audacity of him moving out and immediately paying $40.00/night to a hotel rather than helping me with a couple of bills. Oh yes – like you said – then he’d stay at the hotel or at friend’s for free and still want to come hang out here! God, I hate him. It’s these things that I remember that make me sick to my stomach.

Every ugly thing – and every nice thing – they ever did was always part of a bigger plan to benefit their pathetic, self-absorbed lives. Calculation and manipulation – it’s simply what they DO.

Thanks, shabbychic. I’m so glad you wrote. I too hope that I keep writing – especially when I am feeling that wierd little twinge that always leads to trouble. You have made me feel welcome.

We deserve to forgive ourselves. It is the only way forward!


I will watch you wriggle with denial….thats what my ex did, but i thought he was trying to understand me…I am in and out of denial, even though we have split up now for nearly a year, the extent to which he ripped me off finacially and emotionally seems to be only hitting me now…I’m feeling dazed, wanting to talk about it all the time, and friends are clearly fed up with the topic… I do not blame them but I really am clawing with anger, bargaining for release…his hold on me is the money he owes, and the lies he told and the refusal to bend an inch…so his toxic presence is felt every day until I find a way of dealing with it…I read everything here and its fantastic for understanding the impossible. Thank God there are still human people to talk to.


When I came to LoveFraud several months ago, after an n/p thesis adviser halted my graduate career at thesis level, I asked myself the question: “How could I have fallen for her deceptions and not seen my destruction coming?”

That question set me on a path of self-discovery that has changed everything in my life. Recovered memories of trauma; slowly unraveling the huge ball of family dysfunction one stand at a time; learning to fearlessly tell myself the truth, to listen to my intuition, and to stand up for myself. Learning to cope with PTSD, and search for a job in a new career area when I’d thought I was going to start my teaching career. The life I’d planned was over; the life I didn’t plan is the one I’m living now, every single day. As I open my eyes and my heart, I’m able to see more clearly, and I’m learning quite a bit about the kind of experiences that set me up to be an ideal target for an n/p who destroys people for fun.

Friday, I had the screaming dream again. It sucked. Then Saturday I got up early and was doing yoga before hitting the computer to post for jobs. My brother got up, too, and he came in and said in a fairly smug tone, “So nobody tried to kill you last night? You must be feeling better then.” I don’t know…it’s like suddenly being faced with the school bully again, and all the stupidly mean ways kids torment each other…I decided I couldn’t stomach it. I walked over to him, and with the kitchen counter between us, I said, “No. I’m not fine. I’ve got PTSD, which has very real symptoms, and they are taking a toll on me. I’ve been too ashamed to allow you to see how I am affected, and so I use a great deal of my energy to mask what I feel, and what I’m experiencing, from you.” He surprised me by nodding and waiting for me to continue. Unfortunately, I began to cry, and this isn’t done in our family. I didn’t used to cry at all, ever. Of course now I understand that it’s just human, and sometimes necessary, but I’d prefer to be alone or with someone I know accepts me. I told him how alone I felt with the high level of fear I often feel. It seems in those moments that a real physical threat is present, and it can be overwhelming. I have learned to talk myself down, and I’ve discussed with a veteran who got his from the war when his best friend was killed in front of him. He got it immediately, and said, “Sweetie, you grew up in a war zone. Why are you even surprised?” Then the worst part happened: my arms began to shake and my teeth to chatter and I could not control it, and I felt helpless and exposed. I think I actually would have been more comfortable naked, than that exposed emotionally. My brother was actually quite wonderful: he told me that I “probably need to see someone,” and “we’ll make this happen,” that “you aren’t alone; you have people on your side.” Sadly though, when he said that, my stomach knotted up and I thought, “Watch out…” I don’t like that response, but that’s what happened. He spoke softly, and really was very kind and empathetic, so much so that I felt ashamed for not broaching the subject sooner. I explained to him that at present, I feel as though I’m walking around with my skin removed: I remember my old talents and confidence, but I’ve entirely lost myself, so I’m re-building me from the ground up. He applauded my efforts, and the things I’ve done to take care of myself and heal. He said they had disposable income, so it isn’t a problem to help me out during the time of my job search as I so obviously am facing some significant challenges. This huge crushing weight just rolled off my shoulders: I’ve felt I’ve been fighting a war on two fronts; but now, with my family behind me, I actually felt confidence again, and it was really fantastic.

Later that afternoon, I was bragging a bit to my niece (my brother’s youngest) about what her Dad had done, and how terrific he’d been. I told her how proud I was of him, and inspired to work harder and move forward as fast as I possibly can so I don’t take advantage. She gave me a “LOOK,” and said, “Tia, he’ll take back everything tomorrow,” which I took to mean she was telling me that his offers would all be off the table next day. I was incredulous at that. She said, “Remember, I’m the ‘scapegoat’ kid in this family — I’ve been though all this before and now that I’ve moved out, they’ll do it to you. Just wait.”

Next morning, before I’d even made it to the bathroom, everything she said came true. It was heartbreaking. My brother started in on me, and said, “You’ve done nothing since you got here.” I reminded him about graduate school, and that I had tried transferred and tried again, only to have the n/p quash that with one phone call to the right professor on the graduate admissions committee. All of which he knew: he only wanted to make me feel small and less than. “You aren’t moving forward because you’re too scaaaared and too nervous?” He changed his voice tone so that he was making derisive fun of me, “You stood there yesterday and shoook in front of me,” he made his voice tremulous and actually mimicked my shaking movements by shaking his arms, “Yesterday, oh, yeah, it was very emotional.” I faced him down, and said, quietly, “Stop it.” Its amazing that he entirely condemns the n/p professor for going off on me, but then he’s been doing that to me at regular intervals. Does he even realize he looked like an entirely different person? He then told me that the “help” he and his wife had decided on was a fifteen day extension of their deadline for me to find a job or be out, and gas money for interviews, but since my car’s tank was 3/4 full that wasn’t necessary. Gone were all mention of counseling or any recognition of the conversation we’d had less than a day before. I kept calm on the inside, but unfortunately teared up again — I couldn’t fool myself because he was attempting to bully me and it was an ugly experience. Without thinking (though when I apologized to her later, she said it was glad it happened), I said, “[my niece] warned me this would happen, that everything would be off the table in one day,” and he got really quite angry turning all red faced, and said, “I’m going to call my daughter right now and ask her if she said that!” Translation: he called me a liar. I placed the phone in front of him but he didn’t phone her. She says that sadly, he will probably never ask her directly, and if he does, she’s going to tell him the entire conversation. Then, he pointed at the door and said, “Nothing keeping you here…” I understood in that moment that though he was attacking me, he felt fully justified in doing so, and ashamed somehow of having made himself human and vulnerable the day before. His ideal of “sister” had blown her image and turned ‘real’ by standing up for herself, and he wasn’t happy. The amazing thing is I never saw this behavior until recently because he keeps it so far under wraps (he’s 14 years older than I am, so he’d left home before I started kindergarten). My niece had been a recipient for years, though.

After some snaky diplomatic negotiations, I managed to challenge him to take a look at my job search progress, contacts made, resumes and cover letters sent out, those sorts of things – for the next week. I encouraged him to offer specific critiques, suggestions and become involved. This was interesting: when he started to wind up again, I said, “Could you get a job in this environment in a month? It takes Human Resources a month to process the paperwork alone.” Had no reply, plus I’m changing professions, it’s a recession, and I haven’t worked for several years since I was in school full time. “So you’re demanding I do something you couldn’t?” I asked this quietly, but it had the desired affect. But I was entirely wrung out, we had a family dinner (oy), and after working all evening, still didn’t get much sleep again last night.

My task is to focus on my insides: take care of myself and move forward with my job search. I learned something valuable: I don’t run when facing my fears, not any more, nor do I hide from my aloneness, because you can’t be close to emotionally distant people. I had felt so awful inside, but when I felt heard and understood, even for that brief time, I experienced peace. So when he changed his behavior and yanked back the reassurance, I determined not to allow him or anyone else ever again to take my peace away. I can now take care of myself in that way. My niece phoned me that evening to ask after me, and I told her that in effect, my childhood champion had died, and that I feel I am in mourning for the brother I loved so as a child, and she said, “I know you feel like you’re in hell right now, but it’s actually a good thing because your blinders have come off and you can see things for what they are. Now you can focus on yourself, and get what you need.” I told her I had not intention to say anything to disturb her relationship with her Dad, but she said, “No way; he fell off that pedestal a long time ago. It’s his own doing.” Still freaks me out that anyone could hide a spiteful temper like that so well for so many years. I guess you never really know….either that, or I am an exceedingly boring person, because these are my depths and dark secrets!

I can see now how dynamics like these set me up to tolerate undesirable/ unacceptable/ crazy behavior from the n/p professor that I most likely would have run from, had I grown up understanding healthy boundaries, and had I not been so hungry for acceptance, or had a dream I believed in and was willing to risk much to make happen. I’m NOT saying anyone EVER by any action deserves to be victimized by another; I’m saying I think some life experiences render us more vulnerable.

If anybody has been willing to read this long posting, thank you. I had to ‘write it out’ for my own sake, but also because if it causes even one person to examine the dynamics that could place them at risk, then it’s so well worth it!

Take care, Everybody!


WELCOME, luckyzb, yours are great posts!

JAH, my dear, the part about the deputies being on alert and available to come to your aid and possibly helping him into a new life (9 mm’s will do that, ya know) rings a bell with me.

Last Wednesday, ALL, my guy was in court pro se against his lying, cheating, thieving STBX *this Wed. it is FINAL* (wish us luck). She lied about coming down every weekend to see both of her boys that she blithely drove off and left with US for 6 months. A 10 yr. old (from her first marriage) and a 5 yr. old from THIS marriage. Then she turns around in court syaing she left her oldest here ‘because ___ (our town’s highly capable = Hi-Cap) classes and schools were GREAT – it’s so funny to watch her squirm NOW, saying that the school’s in North Seattle are “so much better” – when they’re not. But it is one example among THOUSANDS, over the past 3.5 years, in which she’s managed to hold these opposing beliefs (*cognitive dissonance*) and yet, continue to ‘work it” in her favor.

WE documented EVERYTHING – I audited our phone bills for that 6 month period, and another couple months after she took both boys, and caming screaming into court with an attorney (the atty “fired her” for not following the Guardian ad Litem’s recommendation to increase the amount of support for her OLDER son – his dad was paying ONLY &68.00 per month. I fixed THEIR wagons: when he’d submitted a statement on her behalf on letterhead he’d purloined from his employer, ( a business at which he was merely a peon, not a partner!) I went to the Child Support website and put in all the info on the letterhead, work address, fax, phone, etc. – and we submitted a counter-statement to the court, which included his handwritten 6 page “laundry list” of all the crappy things she did as a mother, as HIS justification for kidnapping the older child back in 1999, just 6 months into her marriage with my guy. The legal slap upside the head comes from “WERE you lying THEN or are you LYING NOW??” dilemma. AND it cancelled out his statement.

Our phone bills showed that the BOYS called her from OUR phone number to HER phone number – time, duration, and including weekends in which she claimed she was down here, “visiting the boys”

– 1. I wouldn’t have had that narcissopath under this roof; and

2. I pointed out to the Court that it was wasn’t an OCCASIONAL weekend which the boys called her from here:(highlighted on my spreadsheet), but EVERY weekend. Legal slap upside the head: “If she was here, Your Honor, how on earth could THEY be calling her FROM here and staying on the phone for 15 – 30 minutes…if she was HERE.”

Proof positive that the NPD was lying in open court. Which we all KNOW they do….

In addition to my reporting the older boy’s father to support enforcement, because SHE wouldn’t (“It would be inappropriate to increase tensions just for that…” as she said to the GAL…but I’d google and/or zabasearch him, and lo and behold, his “mug” popped up on a website, as a salesmen for a business in Portland OR; the address, fax, phone, etc, were copied from the website and turned over, again, to support enforcement; he then pulled up stakes and moved ‘back East’ – as the NPD claimed in court on August 13 last year, “he’s in TN or KY, I’m not sure which…” – I came home from court, zabasearched BOTH TN and KY with HIS name, and came up with a firm KY address for him within 15 minutes. I also called 411 and got his home phone number.

This information was put into the support enforcement website – AND I checked the WA courts website and found out that SHE’d had him served and a Child Support modification petition WAS served in early July 2008 and HIS RESPONSE was filed July 25, 2008 – “wasnt sure which…” my furry foot!! lol

This wasn’t my “first trip to the rodeo,” and I wasn’t going to let her get away with ‘stealing’ an exhorbitant and OBSCENE amount of money from our household every month. $733.00 per month was hemorrhaging out of our household and to her household, while the older (twice the age of ours) boys suport was set at $68.00 per month for the past 10 years!

*AND she wasn’t even taking care of the younger child’s basic needs. “I” took him to the dentist – scheduling it for KNOWN “visitation weeks” when he’d be with us – GAL got copies of every “good checkup report” – dated, and proof positive that he WAS being taken care of, BY us, despite her.

This is merely ONE aspect of, and one or two examples of, the type of “eagle-eyeing” 24/7 since Dec 18, 2005, that I made my FULL TIME JOB!

In court she accused me of “cyberstalking” her. I replied, it’s your ABSOLUTE right, to put anything YOU want out on the web (her blogs including rants about ME), AND concommitantly, I have the right to FIND IT!

Took the wind right out of her sails – especially when I asked her if I’d EVER re-posted any information (NO), or had I ever made a ranting reply on a thread of hers (NO); and have I ever been charged with the CRIME of “cyberstalking” as she alleged? (NO) So, needless to say the Judge was not impressed with all of the woman’s lies (NPD), mis-use of the child/ren (NPD), and the weird horror-freak-show that is her life now.

At least when the little one comes here to LIVE next week, it will be permanent, and the result of 3 plus years of very hard work on the part of MY guy and myself – it does pay off; she doesn’t know she’s a narcissopath – “she’s SPECIAL,” “She’s ENTITLED” and as she SCREAMED at me before she left THIS household “I ALWAYS GET WHAT I WANT!!!!!!!!!!” to which I kept my poker-face and replied softly, “I’m sure you do.” Then as I turned back into the kitchen, I was REALLY telling myself “Not THIS TIME…B****!”

It is a game; they don’t play by any rules which govern our known world or the universe – so don’t be afraid to gather the dirt – either the bury them in, or to use against them!

This Blog has been such a great help to me – I came here from a different blog – it was a link; they’ve since changed format and webhosting, and I didn’t care much for the new layout; so I’m here, folks.

Oxy – your advice/s have been great – more help than you can know, really.

I hope one day to write a book about Cluster B’s – using real life examples (mine, ours, and others) in order to educate the “uninitiated” as to “their” ways and means.

I’ll keep reading here (it’s the highlight of my Tuesdays) and commenting when appropriate – but this group is so sincere, and helpful to so many people, from all walks of life, that in my counseling practice, I will be recommending LoveFraud to my clients. PERIOD!

*hugs* y’all



What a sick f***. Sorry but I think that sums him up.



My lovely son in law now has the three kids full time, as my Ns daughter has lost her job,{again}, she cant afford the $500 a week flat she was renting. She has put all her stuff in storage and moved in with a friend, till she {gets herself sorted} My son laws words. I am relieved he has them he is a great dad, gives them love and boundaries. he tells me he is luckier than me as he has no emotional attachment to my daughter now whatsoever. he has no idea where she is living and doesnt want to know. I still worry about her, but I know for my sanitys sake and also my bank balance, I have to stay NC. What will become of her? she is 45, and has sucked in so many people, lost so many great jobs, lost a great husband.
She has no job, no car, no savings, no boyfriend that I know of. Despite all the awful things she has done to me and others, I still worry about her. I know I have to give her to God, He has a lot to teach her. I have to take my hands off, and let her go. I know in my heart she doesnt give a sh–t about me, but she is still my adult child. This is very hard.geminigirl.

super chic

luckyzb & everyone… I have to go to work now and will be gone all day, so I will catch up with all you’re posts later! Can’t wait to read them!


It is so true how we try and try to wrap our brains around the behavior trying to understand it. What’s sad is when you understand the person has used you–that to them you’re pretty much just a big joke–but still you realize they have you under their power. You know the game they’re playing, but you’re still on the line. Catch and release…I wish! They might cut the line and toss you to the curb like you’re trash, but if you ever see what happens to a Walleye after it’s pulled from deep water….often it doesn’t survive if it’s released–too much damage has been done. Sometimes I feel like that. Like the trust I had all my life in my environment has been irrevocably shattered. Fact is I don’t trust. I don’t believe in anything anymore–anyone. I look at my friends and wonder if any of them are for real. And this person skates merrily on with his life, totally oblivious to the pain he has caused to me, and from what I understand, other women before me.


It is true what you said about trying to wrap our minds around the S behavior and understand it. It is quite difficult ,as mentioned in a past article, because we are “normal human beings” and when we try to understand or make sense of the S behavior using our “normal emotions” they just don’t apply in this case. It does not make sense to “NORMAL” people with “NORMAL thoughts and emotions”. We can not fathom the idea that someone else could possibly treat a human being in that manner. We would never even think to be that way. Be thankful that you are not capable of that type of behavior.

You are not a “BIG JOKE” and are not under THEIR POWER. You are stronger than you realize or give yourself credit for. In the end they can not take what you do not give. Stay strong!

Yes, they do cause damage and I, like you, have felt my trust shattered. It breaks my heart for you to think that you feel that the trust has been irrevocably shattered. I have felt that way myself in the aftermath of the S destruction. But I have also learned that trust comes from ME not from others. You have to listen to your gut and yes look at your friends and the choices YOU make. Be aware of what you choose. It is a Beautiful thing to get to choose. It is up to us. We are lucky that we have feelings and do not have to live an insatiable life of craziness where we leave a path of destruction wherever we go. You do get to make choices and FEEL real LOVE for others and you are capable of caring. That makes all the DIFFERENCE in the World! It is what makes us “HUMAN”.

His life is not yours. His problem is not about YOU. Yes, they do shatter our hearts with their senseless betrayal and cause us immense pain. But please refuse to give them anymore of yourself. Not another minute! DO NOT GIVE YOUR POWER AWAY! Believe in yourself and start making plans for what YOU want for your life. Focus on you.
Take care!


luxkyzb: Welcome. Sorry you have experienced what the rest of us here have! You very accurately descibed my EX with you sentence: “Everything my N/S/P did and does is for the simple, sick thrill of hurting me, making me cry, teaching me a lesson, making me beg, making me apologize (for nothing I did). The silent treatments (sometimes for weeks), the mysterious dissapearances, …. the unanswered questions, the ruined holidays and birthdays year after year without fail,.., the list – as we all know – goes on and on.”

I only deleted two descriptions of yours that didn’t fit mine — but I can fill them in with other hurtful behavior. My N/S/P never filed any restraining orders nor I on him but he did try to make our oldest daughter my Guardian ad Litem (because I was CRAZY — for daring to get on a plane and leave him!)

He stalked me incessantly while daling (we were in college) and then kept CLOSE TABS on me during the way too long “marriage. Then he surprisingly stalked me when I went back “home” for a grandson’s wedding six years after I left. WHY wasn’t he with his live-in girlfriend? One of the stalking days was Mother’s Day! I was SO upset for her!

I was so puzzled about this latter day stalking (I made sure I was in a public place and safe) so I asked my visiting nurse.
It made sense when she (who understands abuse) said, “He just wanted to be noticed — as narcissists do!)

Anyway, I just want to say I think you are VERY WISE to start NC and then I hope and pray you keep it up!! The relationship can only get worse, not better. Be sure to be sure you are safe, though. These guys can be very unpredicable, although usually predictable!


WELCOME, Luckyzb!

I have been mostly a reader myself- but every now and then it is GREAT to write! You nailed it all! I’m glad that you have an outlet to express this common craziness that we all have endured. LF is a wonderful place to discover. It is so enlightening to realize that you are not crazy after all. At least not in the sense that the S was trying to have you believe:)

You get what is important in saving yourself and for your son. Putting life in perspective for what works for you. You are right, it is ten years that you can not get back, but in perspective- You are not giving him another day of your life and that’s what counts! Today is what counts! Moment to moment is what counts.
You are on the right path. Stay Strong in the NC it works.


I sure wish I could write a huge grant to get funding for a lf hideaway where all you wonderful women could come heal and rest in safety with no fear of being contacted or stalked or any of that! All expenses paid, including getting here.

I wish I were smart enough to think of some model where women and their kids heal, go on to create new lives and then contribute dollars to keep it going for the women who come next. (I know men are victims too)

I wish I were smart enough to think of some healing cottage industry women could do that would help bring in income as they heal, like quiet quilting.

I work very hard right now in a field in which I am passionate and the funding keeps coming despite all odds….sometimes I feel like jumping ship to this “calling”.

Betty, Luckyzb, everyone….my heart goes out to you and at least picture emotional protection all around you. Refuse to let them get to you. So hard I know. Believe me I KNOW.



Luckyzb: I meant to add that the Guardian ad Litem filing didn’t work!!!!! The one and only time the legal system came through for me!! (Fourteen people that knew me had signed notarized statements attesting to my mental wellness. I’ll always wonder what his reaction was to THAT — but the “craziness” charge was never mentioned again. PTL


Donna and Justabouthealed,

Thank you, and bless you both.



The sociopath I married and lived with for 5 months before he went off to prison for 5 months (he could have goten 10 years and should have. I had my fingers crossed that he would) was a poet. He could very well have written that poem. In fact maybe he did. Sometimes they are playing more than one woman at a time.



Welcome to the blog. Yet another amazing and intelligent voice to add to the masses already here. I love this place!!!


This is sad indeed. I am listening. I don’t say much, but am a witness to your story and growth. I am really glad you are here and so generous with your telling. HUGS.

And on a sweetly spiteful note I saw the spathole the other day, waiting for the bus in 105 degrees. Ah, the beauty of it.



Whew! I did read your long post and it was well worth the read. You have been through a lot. But you sound strong and have clarity. It gives me hope. I am always so glad when someone else “takes their blinders off” and sees what it is they are dealing with.

You said that you were mourning the brother that you had once loved so as a child. It is mourning the loss. I don’t think that I have ever been as sad as I was when I realized my husband was an S and that he was not the man that I married. Then even “sadder” still when I realized that the man I married was a complete illusion. It makes you feel crazy and depressed.

It definitely is a grieving process to get to healing in these S situations. I feel for you. It is so difficult especially when it is family.
Take care of yourself and continue to stay strong:)


So true archerjf! It could have been the man I was married to as well. Any number of us I am sure:) Not “sometimes”- ALWAYS playing more than one woman. As Oprah says, what I know for sure.


JAH, I like your idea of “some healing cottage industry women could do that would help bring in income as they heal, like quiet quilting.” Just yesteday, I learned that Israel (or was it Iran?) has instigated the building of a beauty school to train refugees to be beautifians for needed income. Women everywhere are interested in being as attractive as possible!

Years ago, some agency started training Vietnamese men and women in nail care for this purpose. That’s why most manicure/nail businesses are run by Vietnamese. It works!

My anemia prevents me from looking up the info but I know that Dr. Susan Weitzman who wrote, “Not to People Like Us: Hidden abuse in upscale marriage.” has a clinic/healing retreats for abuse recovery — about 40 miles from Chicago/Ohare airport. My problem was the $$ to get there even though she offrered me a scholarship back in 2003.

Found a URL active in July 2003:


Betty, now I’m too exhausted (end of the day exhaustion due to the anemia) to write much but I wanted to tell you that yesterday I read your article (again) and all the posts following. I was astonished that I had not responded to you!

Then, I noted the dates — March 2009 — I was hospitalized the whole month of March 2009 so no wonder.

It seems I did answer one of your posts of a later time — or did I just “think” a response? LOL

I will only add now that I feel almost excited for you that you finally saw your brother’s “true colors.” That was hurtful to have him fall off the pedestal but I feel sure it will be to your benefit!

My two older sisters fell off their pedestals (that I had put them on) about a year ago. I still call them very periodically — a few months ago anyway — and have a freedom inside I had never felt from them before. (That didn’t come out just right. I hope you understand.)

Oh, I have to find strength to tell you that I am GLAD that you have a neice who understand completely and is on your side. What a blessing.

I have the oldest son of my oldest sister “on my side,” too.


I have this guys sister on my side. He told me once that since her husband was dead and she had no children that he was counting on inheriting what she had. When I found out that he had been lying and using me I called her and told her what he said. She had no trouble at all believing it. She said her father was like that and her other brother and nephews too. So his inheritance “walked”. He is on 2 years probation and is without a place to stay. He is with his son right now and they deserve him because they were enableing him. I believe he was thinking he could go back to an ex but she got remarried. It is funny in a way he has just what he deserves right now-nothing. Until he finds some other woman to con. I wish there was some way we could have these men branded on the forehead. Like they did women in the middle ages.


When I read the poem, my heart already stopped at the word “RAVISH”. I understand this sickness. Wait, I do not understand it but I know it well. I was married to this sickness. I thought I had out smarted financial deprevation by saving a plastic jug of money. I did not hide it because if he found it, things would not be good….so I felt safe saving it in the open. He had to have known that I was planning my escape as our house was broken into and only my things were stolen. There were signed and numbered art prints, box’s and box’s of antiques already boxed that the “intruders” could have taken. Yet they only took the money, all my jewerly, my ID, resumes….anything that could have aided my departure. Then the bars went up across all the windows, two by fours across the back door, chicken wire on the windows, screws keeping the windows shut, several double dead bolt locks on the front door and a plea to the alarm system man to do a side job instead of going through the company. All and all I did escape…I left his friend who he had sit with me while I was having a rummage sale to get us a couple burgers, well thats what I told him. By the way the security measures and the bodyguard were done for my protection…that’s what he told me. Well I was only gone 10 minutes when the friend called where are you, five minutes later my husband called but I did not answer as I was sppeding to get to the shelter as fast as I could. He left a message. WHERE ARE YOU WERE THE F ARE YOU, WHAT THE F……he went on and on and it was not nice. 5 more minutes passed and a mutual friend left a message….Are you ok….he is calling the police departments, the hospitals…I was not even gone a half hour. I called when I arrived at the shelter to tell him where I was (what a fool) I did not tell him the location but I did not want to piss him off by making him worry if he really was concerned. His main relpy said very sniedly was “well I am glad you are safe”. The very next day my neighbor call and told me he had just removed hundreds of box’s from our house and changed all the locks on the door. I was devestated that he did not ask me to come back. Some where I heard some thing like “and when they are through with you, and they will be through with you”. It broke my heart. Instead of being greatful that I got out I felt sorry for myself. I wanted to get a few things and drove past the house, got scared and went to the post office…..somehow he showed up the sametime I did. He talked me into coming back to the house with him. Once in I became very scared, I walked up to him because I did not want him to see my fear. I tucked my head down hugged him and said I love you. After everything that happened he said “I want to pick you up, carry you into the bedroom and RAVISH your body. I froze. I could not breathe…I thought after everything that has happend, that’s how he wants to make things better…..pretend nothing ever happened. I took a deep breath , I quietly asked God to please, please help me leave, Please do not let him try to carry me because I will have to hurt him, I was afraid all my anger over all I had endured would get away from me. I was lucky. I walked out.

This is how they think, eat, breathe, sleep, walk, talk. There is a part of me that never wants to read these blogs again after one touches me like this one. But if I don’t I forget. As sick as it sounds, if I don’t, I sometimes start to think that maybe I am the sick one. I wanted things to be different, I wanted things to go my way so how am I different than him. Then most importantly…I wonder “WILL I EVER, EVER BE NORMAL AGAIN…….????



Your post to Ladydifadden above at 5:12pm today was, in my opinion, what its all about and what we all must do… if only it were that easy…but at times, I think really truly it may be….when we choose to heal and move on…

Thanks for your inspiring post!


To everyone – I am so grateful to have finally written. Slimone said it so well – I have never seen so many amazing, intelligent voices in one place – EVER! It just goes to show how absolutely evil is the core of the N/P/S and how adept they are at their game to have sucked us in. What they do is so illogical, so amazingly deceitful, and so opposite of the truth – we are constantly shaking our head going, “No, it just can’t be”, trying to figure it out, trying to make sense of the nonsensical, struggling to fill in the blanks of even the smallest story, trying to find the goodness in there SOMEWHERE. Time just passes. We don’t want to give up – not YET. We want to believe them – this ONE last time. We keep using “our history together” as an excuse to continue when, in actuality, there isn’t any. We figure, “Well, he’s here with me now…must be okay.” To our credit, since we never really know EVERYTHING about what we feel is “off”, we try not to make mountains out of molehills. Unfortunately, they know this and therefore know EXACTLY what they can get away with. Lying by omission – I hate that the most, I think. Even when I had completed my own investgations and discovered the truth, so much time had passed since “the omission”, that I let it go, telling myself, “I’ll just keep that discovery in tha back of my mind until the perfect moment…” but that gratifying, perfect moment never comes because the N/P/S is always one step ahead with yet another unexpected D & D.

For me, the only way to get any peace at all (besides the closure that we imagine which will never happen) is to cast the burden, surrender all of it, give it up to a higher power. This has nothing to do with God, per se, because everyone’s higher power is different. I started looking into Zen Philosophy years back and it really helped me feel okay about letting go, giving up expectations, and detachment. So much harder said than done – OMG yes. But if we want to move forward, it is the only way.

Ladydifadden – don’t give up on trusting. These people are SO genuinely evil that they will NEVER EVER EVER know happiness. And I’m glad! I know it seems like they go on with their merry lives but they don’t. It’s impossible. It really is. Find comfort in that if you can. For whatever reason – we came into contact with “bad seeds”. “Bad seeds” can not be be fixed and they can not be destroyed. They are what they are. However, they CAN be discarded – just like they do to us – and NC is the way to do it. As scary as it is and as sad as it makes me, I know now this is true.


It is all so true. Mine has ruined a great majority of my life. And I have allowed it. I am untrusing also.

Betty~when I read your blog, I actually said “oh no” out loud when you said you took your brother into confindece. Our families are just as sick as we are because they grew up the same way we did. My brother actually came out to my house to see what I was up to for my S. My S has bought my whole family. I feel that the ONLY people I can share with are right here. And my counselor. Be careful and stay strong.

That poem is the only thing that makes “sense” when trying to figure these people out. My S is evil to the core of his being. And I know there have been many women.

The only thing that I know is what I told my counselor today. I have lost my own identity. I don’t know how to get it changed back to me. I have been robbed of humanism. My S tortured me by not having any physical contact at all. Cold. Dead. Made me feel sooo unlovable. Convinced me I was mentally ill. When it was HE who was lying and being psycho and paranoid. And I caught him. And I MADE him admit to me who was the psycho and paranoid person. I caught him red handed and he HAD to admit it. That felt good. I have never been that mean to anyone. But when backed into a corner and finding out the lies he told me I came out swinging. My God, it was emotionally and physically exhausting as is the “relationshit”. I am not homely at all. I always felt guilty about my own beauty, whick my counselor pointed out to me. Now I realize that he knew the best way to get to me was to treat me like I was a piece of furniture. Or just the cook. No physical or emotional connection whatsoever. I am thankful now as he probably has STD’s!!

One thing Ox Drover taught me was to count, or to hum or whatever when we start thinking about the S’s in our lives. It really does work.

One thing that I believe in is Karma. And I believe that we that have been victimized because of our naievity (sp?) or trusting nature, will be vindicated at some point, and God has something very “special” for them!! So Towanda Peeps! And I AM old enough to remember Helen Reddys song!! I know it by heart!! So ROAR!!!!!!!!!!


Slimone, truebeliever, aNewLily, 2Much2Take: Thank you so much for writing! I was feeling a little better after Donna and JustAboutHealed wrote, but you have all helped me get through a very tough day.

I realize now that I was so scared to see the truth: I didn’t want to know that my brother would act like that. My niece has been very patient with me, just waiting for me to come out of the FOG, open my eyes, and deal. She’s quite something.

I don’t know what I would do without this group of people here at LoveFraud. I sometimes feel like I’m stepping off the edge of the world into nothingness. As they used to say in ancient times when maps marked the end of the known world with the legend, “Beyond here there be dragons.” No fooling, and really mean ones, too.

But with the things I learn from you, and the compassion that’s here, I did actually make it through today! There is tremendous healing power in being heard and accepted, and I’ve experienced it once again today. Thank you.

Luckyzb, Welcome! Looks like you already know this, but the people here are really incredible. They may be stunned, shocked, overwhelmed, suffering great loss (many times of everything they had and though they knew) — but they are inescapably kind, wise, brave, encouraging, compassionate, strong, giving of themselves — and have great senses of humor right in the midst of all of it! You’re in a good place with these people.

Good night all, and thanks again!

Ox Drover

ARcherjf, Molly, and the “old hands” here–there are so many things we all think pretty much “alike” in our thinking as we are getting out. Then we start grieving about the “dearly departed” and thinking maybe he wasn’t so bad after all—all we have to do is PRETEND HE DIDN’T DO OR SAY ALL THESE NASTY MEAN HATEFUL DEGRADING THINGS TO US and everything will be “lovely.”

It doesn’t matter if it is husband/wife/lover/child/parent, a P is a P and they do what they do and the only way you can “deal with them” is to TOTALLY OVERLOOK ALL THE LIES AND ABUSE, just pretend—-of course, in order to do that you have to remove both your heart and brain, and that’s not much of a way to live.

It makes me happy to hear you younger women getting the lesson and I am so proud of you. I know it is a difficult road, and I have stepped in most of th epot holes myself and some of them are pretty deep.

LF has been a becon light shining from the distance in that land we call “healing” and I want to stay on the road to healing, and not get off into another SWAMP of despair and misery!!! Keep reading, keep blogging, and keep up your strength. (((hugs)))) and always my prayers for you



“relationshit” lol, u really made me laugh ! And YES, it was 100% pure relationshit 🙂


I’m very glad to have LF right now. My son is gone for two weeks (this is the third day) and it is very, very quiet here – and very, very late. I would normally be out in the darkness right now doing drive-bys or sitting here dialing & hanging up or something – anything – to make some wierd connection. But I’m not. Just the thought of it right now wears me out. Thank God.

Ox Drover

Dear Luckyzb,

Glad you are here, this is a great place to learn about them, and it starts out learning about them, and getting that nonsense through our heads that, YES, someone CAN be pure EVIL. Then we start learning about ourselves. WHY we put up with that “relationshit” like we did. 2much, YOU HAVE COINED A NEW LF PHRASE—like Henry’s “Narcissopath” and like “towanda” (that one has been around long enough I have forgotten who did it originally, I think was Learningthelesson) and there are several others we use around here, but I bet ya that “relationshit” is one of those that is so funny andFITS so well, it will be around FOREVER! Thanks for adding to our vocabulary here at LF!!! ROTFLMAO

Lucky, the journey we take in healing is a never ending journey, we learn one thing, then another,a nd it only gets better. Many times we learn we have never really learned how to set boundaries in the kind of behavior we will tolerate. Sometimes we also learn that we “love too much” and “give too much” to unkind people in general, and some people “walk on us” and we allow it—over and over. We learn to stop allowing others to treat us rudely. We stop GIVING our trust away, we learn to require people EARN our trust and that our trust is a valuable thing that we GUARD.

We learn that we deserve to be treated well and that anyone who doesn’t treat us well needs to be OUT of our lives—no matter who they are. We learn to put ourselves first and to be gentle and giving to OURselves. We learn to listen to our “guts” and that when it tells us “something isn’t right with this person” we LISTEN AND TO BE WARY OF THAT PERSON.

We learn to recognize the RED FLAGS that a psychopath will fly (some are subtle though) and to be cautious around that person and not let them get any closer.

Lucky, “no contact” with the P is the way most of us have found the ONLY way—not contacting them in any way, and not letting them communicate with us in any way. I know right now that may seem counterintuitive, but it will bring sanity and peace eventually, trust me on that one! (((hugs)))) and God bless, and my prayers for you and the rest of us here.


Oxydrover I am 63 years old and this happened to me. He was a high school sweetheart and contacted me after all these years saying he had never forgotten me and still loved me. I fell for the “fairy tale” even though I had been alone for 20 years and loved my life and had a good career as a psy nurse. He was a federal marshall. It sounds so unbelieveable to say it and I feel so ashamed. It just goes to show how very convincing they can be and how diabolical. He and men like him are what is meant by “evil”. I feel I can’t trust ANYONE. I look at policemen now and think, “are you abusing your wife and kids at home”, “are you stealing from your employer”. It really messes with your mind.


Wasn’t “towanda” in Fanny Flaggs book and the movie Fried Green Tomatoes?

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