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By | December 1, 2006 34 Comments

Child victims of sociopathic parents

The benefits of a relationship with both parents depend on the quality of care the parents can provide. This fact is illustrated in the following story:

FREMONT, Calif. – A 6-year-old boy abducted from his mother was returned home safely Friday after his father was arrested 200 miles away in the Sacramento Valley, police said.

Ralph Baldenegro, 56, was arrested near Red Bluff and was being held at the Tehama County Jail.

Baldenegro allegedly broke into his estranged wife’s house, beat and handcuffed her, and kidnapped the boy Thursday night, said Fremont Detective Bill Veteran. He also hit his 14-year-old stepdaughter.” Read full story.

The news is full of stories like the one above that call into question the common notion that a child needs both of his biologic parents. Often, people say, “She needs to love her mother.” Or, “He needs to love his father.”

The majority of children do need a relationship with both parents

The idea that children need to love and have a relationship with both parents is indeed true for the majority of children who are affected by separation or divorce. In cases where both parents have an ongoing love and commitment to the child, they have proven it in words and actions. Actions such as providing financial support, spending time with the child, and making the parent-child relationship a top priority demonstrate a commitment to parenting.

Unfortunately however, some parents may also have a hard time getting along with each other for the sake of their children. Parents fighting over children and placing them in the middle of ongoing conflict is detrimental to children. These parents need education to help them in the transition to co-parenting. This education is mandated now for divorcing parents in most states.

Children of sociopaths deserve our protection

There are nonetheless a minority of children being raised by a relatively healthy parent and vexed by a parent who is a sociopath or addict. We advise other family members of sociopaths and addicts to cut ties with the affected person. Ties can later be reestablished if the person demonstrates a commitment through action that he/she desires a better lifestyle.

Why then, to we think it is healthy for the children of sociopaths and addicts to have a relationship with them?

Science has demonstrated that children are harmed by sociopathic parents

The scientific literature clearly demonstrates that it is detrimental for children to grow up with adults who are aggressive, controlling and manipulative.

According to a recent study of 1,116 five-year-old twin pairs and their parents, “Behavioral genetic analyses showed that children who resided with antisocial fathers received a ‘double whammy’ of genetic and environmental risk for conduct problems.” The authors therefore concluded, “Marriage may not be the answer to the problems faced by some children living in single-parent families unless their fathers can become reliable sources of emotional and economic support.” (Jaffee, Moffitt, Caspi, Taylor, Life with (or without) father: the benefits of living with two biological parents depends on the father’s antisocial behavior, 2003).

The children of sociopathic mothers are at even greater risk due to the stronger genetic basis of female antisocial behavior and the nature of the mother-child relationship.

What will it take to change our laws?

Why then do the courts consistently award visitation to parents who have been diagnosed with addiction and/or sociopathy? The lawmakers who have made these laws, and the judges who interpret them, are for the most part uneducated as to the nature of both sociopathy and the needs of children.

In my opinion, the concept of supervised visitation is confusing to children. How is the child to benefit from having his schedule disrupted to go to a strange place and visit someone who is supposed to be functioning as his/her caretaker?

There have been many instances in our public history where flaws in our laws have been detected and changed by concerned citizens. This only happens when those who are concerned form an organized lobbying effort.

Those of us who are healing from a relationship with a sociopath and working hard to raise children properly, have a hard time finding the energy for such an effort. We need the help of those who have already finished raising the next generation and others familiar with sociopathy. We also need the help of professionals who work in the field.

If we work together, perhaps future children will have a better chance at a peaceful childhood.


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How do we get these creeps off the street????? I know of almost the exact same situation existing about 50 miles away from where this story took place. Sociopathic, drug addicted violent man who beats his wife. The 8 year old daughter in question is not his biological child. How do we enable the mother who suffers repeated batterings, find the strength to get away? The law seems to protect the perpetrator and do very little to help the real victims. Do you really think being in jail stops the sociopath???? Talk about naiive!!!!!!

421dmb2

I agree with all you say. Educating family counselors and family lawyers about sociopaths and children is key to helping these children. My understanding is that only a small percentage of our population are sociopaths and probably a smaller percent of them are raising children. I really feel the two counselors I have dealt with (my own and my son’s) have been very well meaning…but did not know how to correctly advise me in my situation. I don’t think they deal with these situations enough. I never even heard of the word sociopath and parental alienation until this summer, and I have been dealing with this very aggressive, controlling, and manipulative man for over nine years.
I also think that educating GALs on these people is also crucial. GALs are the ones that review the case and determine if a psych evaluation is necessary. If they don’t recognize that they are dealing with a sociopath, and instead believe their lies, and do not scrutinize the records, then no evaluation will be done to determine if one is a sociopath or not. A quick brush over of the records will not reveal what is really going on. I advise people who think they are dealing with a sociopath to contact a specialist who knows the law, sociopaths, and parental alienation before they begin legal action. These people will (for a very expensive price) review the records carefully so when you do deal with lawyers, GALs and the courts you can bring out the important points in a clear and logical way. These people want the best for the children so they will give you an honest review. I also advise people to try to get counselors who understand these issues…ask what training they have had and experience. Maybe the psychologist who writes the above article can give advice on how we can find counselors who really understand these issues. How can we really know that they are trained in these areas? Counselors are the ones who will back us up to the GAL and the courts so it is really important that they understand the issues.
I think the biggest problem about dealing with sociopaths and custody issues is that sociopaths are really good at lying. The courts don’t know who to believe….and they don’t take the time to scrutinize records. This works to the advantage of the sociopath.
I really would like to help others who are going through what I am. I am not sure if I am in the best position to speak up because many people may just view me as an angry divorced woman with a vandetta against my ex. Honestly, many times when I read responses on these blogs, I often think to myself that some of these people may actually have the problems. Dealing with my ex, who appears in public as the nicest guy in the world, and knowing how angry, aggressive and manipulative he is in private, makes me realize that you really do not know people. I think I will have more credibility when my children are older and I have nothing to “gain” from telling my story.

421dmb2

I am curious too, if a psych evaluation can definitely identify someone as being a sociopath? My exhusband is so good at lying, couldn’t he fool the person conducting the test? My exhusband is incredibly smart and sharp. He is quick with replies, and can twist and turn the truth. Wouldn’t the evaluator need to know the inconsistencies of this person’s story and question those inconsitencies during the psych. evaluation? Does the court allow “the other side” to alert the evaluator of things to question the person on? or is it a standard kind of a test?

agirl_inur_midst

I dont know what to say really, Im still recovering from the losses I incurred from my relationship with ex boyfriend. He abused my trust and my naeivity very much. He did exactly all the things you said that sociopaths do and I spent all this time after the damage was done educating myself about sociopaths now that things cannot be reversed and its making me even more and more depressed because I can see through people and I cannot love anymore or find hope in loving anyone. Everyone warned me about him but some of my own family members used me against each other and brought him to the forefront and so I am still hateful and angry. I am becoming a psychopath myself and in some ways a sociopath. I have begun to steal which is something I never did before and I do it remorselessly and I also look down on other people they are nothing to me. It is almost like I am sickened by all of them. What can I do? Do I need therapy? I don’t pray to God anymore because I have decided that its an invention of man’s imagination and the purpose of life is take and to leave.

agirl_inur_midst

sometimes i wonder why…did i deserve this. i just wanted to feel good about myself and for such a small thing i had to incur so much damage. Women who are not as kind and as passionate as me are definitely much smarter and they are the ones who manipulate the men in their lives, take their money, and pretend to love them. I really love the man who comes into my life when he comes into my life. He takes me for granted, milks me for all that I am worth, and then when there is nothing left of me. Its finished. I have recently decided to become a jerk, a sociopath myself and to rid myself of a conscience or of any feelings of remorse and in some ways it is happening gradually. I am beginning to think of ways to torture, abuse, and all I think about is revenge and taking someone’s money, just taking their money and leaving them and making them feel the pain I feel, to give as little back as possible.
Can anyone help me out there? I am about to lose myself to the devil. He came into my life, took all the goodness from me and reduced me to becoming evil. when he kissed me and proclaimed his undying love for me, i would kill for that kiss. Now I would kill for just about anything, even for his painful death.

To A Girl,

The pain of betrayal goes very deep, as you have discovered. You have to find a way to release the pain without injuring other people, because lashing out at others will only make it worse. You are right to be angry with the ex boyfriend. You don’t want to be angry at yourself as well.

Please get some therapy. However, make sure the therapist is familiar with sociopaths and how destructive they are – not all therapists understand this.

421dmb2

To A Girl,
You say that you no longer believe in God, but maybe he led you to this site. Here you can read the stories of women who have gone through similar experiences to you, who understand the pain and confusion you are feeling, and who have used this experience to do something good…to create a place where people can try to make sense of it all and to get good information and facts.
I agree that you should get counseling and also agree that you should make sure the counselor understands sociopaths and their victims. I am still not clear how you know which counselors really have this experience. I think many think they have this expertise, but when it comes down to it, really do not. Maybe others can give some advice on this.
You sound like you are in a really dark place. You may even benefit from some antidepressant medication until you feel better.
I was married to a man who definitely is on the spectrum of a sociopath. During my marriage, I went to family counseling, and the psychologist labeled him as abusive and as having a personality disorder. She said he was aggressive, manipulative and impulsive, but never used the term sociopath. After my divorce, my children went to a counselor. This woman specialized in “divorce”, but did not want to speak to the family counselor previously involved with our family, or read some disturbing letters from my ex. She said she wanted to figure it out herself. Looking back, and knowing what I know now, I can see that this was not the best counselor for my situation because sociopaths lie, and without having some baseline for the truth….I think it was my word against him. This counselor did come to the conclusion that my ex’s behavior was detrimental to my children, and suggested a GAL investigation. She was honest and said that my ex had said things about me and she could not determine who was telling the truth, but that a GAL would read through the records and speak to all the counselors and would be able to figure out what was going on and make the best recommendation for my family. I believed that the GAL would do this, and trusted that the truth would come out. To my great dismay, the GAL did a very surface investigation. She never even interviewed either of the counselors, and never made mention of the letters and phone calls I had taped. Her initial report recommended that visitation and custody continue as they were. I did at that point request that the GAL at least interview the counselors. The judge agreed that this be done, and it was, and then it seemed like the whole case was dropped. I know the second report was filed, but my ex and I are not allowed to see it. My lawyer seems uninterested in pursuing the case for me. He said I should just learn to deal with my ex’s behavior, and to further any legal action will cost me money I don’t have. I think what happened was that the GAL’s final recommendation was to keep visitation the same. So I am left to just deal with it because my lawyer is right. I don’t have any money to pursue it. I have a lot of debt as it is,have a child needing braces and I need a new car. And my ex’s bad behavior continues…. Looking back, I wish I had done many things differently…mainly choose a child therapist who would take the time to know the family background before beginning therapy, and also one who understand sociopaths and parental alienation. Two, once a GAL was involved I would have called in an expert on parental alienation to review my records and pull out the important facts to tie it all together for the GAL. I didn’t realize that my one meeting time with her would be it. I thought it was the beginning meeting of a long process, but it was it (beside the home visit).
So, now I am left with a not ideal situation. My ex’s behavior has improved somewhat (from being exposed….how he appears to the outside world is really important to him) And now he knows that I will call the police and will take him to court if he violates the orders, but he is who he is, and that will never change. Last week I picked up the phone to call my neighbor I heard my ex tell my 14 year old that I was a “pot-smoking freak and didn’t know what the hell I was doing” and this weekend when it was his visitation weekend, he got mad at the 14 year old for wantng to go to a party with his basketball team instead of going with him. Half an hour after picking the other children up, he dropped them all off again, and said if they didn’t want to see him, he didn’t want to see them either, but the two younger ones did want to see him. My children and I live on an emotional roller coaster. I am left to make the best of it.
It has been a really confusing journey for me. I think I lost faith in God along the way. I prayed so often that things would turn out right, and they just didn’t turn out the way I thought they should. I stopped praying, but kept busy living, in all this time I went back to school, became a teacher, and now am going for my master’s degree. I am now realizing that because of all that has happened to me, I am such a better person than I ever could have been if I hadn’t met my ex. I have come to realize that I am a strong person. I have handled having my name slandered, and my own relationship with my children threatened by a man whose goal in life is to sever the relationship I have with them. I am a better teacher too because I do not make judgements on my students and their family situations. I never listen to gossip. I understand that good people get in bad situations. So maybe God did not answer my prayers because he knew I would grow to be a better person without his intervention. I still worry about the impact my ex has on my children, but I am just doing the best I can.
I think “a girl” is going through some very difficult times right now. Try to make decisions that will not hurt others, in the long run, I think you will feel guilty about this and this will bring you further down. Try to use your experience to help others, like the creator of this website did. I know loving others and helping others will make you feel good, so do not shut yourself off from being with people in a positive way. This will help you heal quicker. I hope in time that you feel better, but in the mean time, counseling and maybe some medication might help you out. Good luck.

Cynbot

It was only a boyfriend… I’m sorry.

My sociopath grandmother who kidnapped me from my own mother when I was only some months old, convinced her to separate from my biological father and legally fooled a court of law and adopted me as her own daughter has raised me for these past 18 years.

I’ve been living with this selfish, uncaring, manipulative, sometimes aggressive and hateful woman my whole life, ALONE. She pistol whipped her husband, my grandfather, who is now basically her minion slave who is on his second retirement working hard all week all year to earn money for her so she can spend it all recklessly each month on herself. She hasn’t had a job since she was 22 (up until she was 24)

Just because she doesn’t get drunk and beat me all the time (although we have gotten into physical fights with each other) doesn’t mean the mental abuse my grandfather, mother and myself have endured from her is more than unbearable.

All that rejection and whatever pain it is that you’re feeling, try dealing with that times 20 for the entirety of your life, with no support from anyone.

Ox Drover

Dear Cynbot,

You sound like you are very angry and for that kind of behavior that you described from your Grandmother, justifiably so. The thing about anger (which comes, I think from fear, frustration and pain) though is that the pain of each of us totally fills us, so that no one of us has “suffered” more than the others, we are all TOTALLY in PAIN.

The good thing about your situation though is that you are 18, and will soon be able to leave this woman and make a better life for yourself.

You are right, mental abuse is just as bad or worse than physical abuse sometimes. If you have a friend, neighbor, teacher or counselor that you can talk to that would be a good thing, or call a domestic violence shelter and talk to a counselor there. You are NOT alone.

I also recommend that you read here as much as you can, the articles in the archives are excellent in learning both about the psychopathic mind set, and in healing for yourself.

Ox Drover

Dear Girl,

You have been given some good advice. No one deserves to be abused, either physically or mentally, but if we, in turn, abuse others, we have lost both ways. I would rather be abused than BE AN ABUSER. Even though a psychopath may laugh at how they made someone suffer, they can’t even realize what they have NOT GOT that we HAVE GOT—and that is the wonderful capacity to love—to love others and to love ourselves. They are not capable of doing either.

You are not alone in having been abused, or in having pain or self doubt. Get soem counseling, if you don’t have insurance or can’t find a counselor taht gets it, call a local domestic violence shelter and get a referral from them for a support group or a counselor. Good luck.

Tilly

SAD SAD STORY.

Buttons

“We need the help of those who have already finished raising the next generation and others familiar with sociopathy. We also need the help of professionals who work in the field.”

Liane, statement sums it all up. As I’ve posted previously, I’m facing this life changing situation with my youngest son. He has nowhere to go, nobody to turn to, and no idea that he’s been a victim his entire life. His victimization after the spath father was compounded by the abuse of his older spath brother. This is deep, dark, scary stuff for me. I’m still stumbling along my own healing path, and I want to believe that I’m far along enough to walk alongside this kid, but I’m pretty frightened of the things that I know will be lurking behind every corner.

Counseling is going to be imperative – a mandate. To address the youngest son’s victimization by his spath brother. Hopefully, a good, wise, and savvy counselor is going to help him recognize and move beyond the victim status and onto the Survivor healing path.

Whew……less than a month to prepare, and I’ve got to get this fear under control.

Ox Drover

Dear Buttons,

I know you want to do all you can to help your youngest son, Believe me, been there with my older son (the ADHD one) but I also realize that I can’t help him, he must be willing to help himself, to see a need to help himself. I don’t think he does see that need. He has been pulled repeatedly into the “anti-mom” ranks by his P-brother, he married a P and Actually I thought he was just being manipulated into the “anti-mom” ranks again, but he is so EASILY recruited into their ranks REPEATEDLY that I realize that HE HAS SOME MAJOR ISSUES that HE is not willing to address-=–maybe it is too painful for him to address, or he is in denial about his problems, but whatever the issues, I am not able to help him, and I refuse to enable him. He’s an adult, however flawed, HE IS AN ADULT.

Adults, however good or bad, wise or unwise, must make their own decisions on their behavior and lives. They get the consequences to go with those decisions.

Stay strong, Buttons and remember you are NOT responsible for this past abuse of him, and YOU CANNOT REPAIR IT, you may be supportive of your and love him, but HE HAS TO RECOGNIZE HE NEEDS TO HELP HIMSELF, AND THEN HE HAS TO DO THE WORK TO HELP HIMSELF. So don’t put the outcome of this on your shoulders! ((((Hugs)))))

Buttons

Thanks so much, OxD – I’m okay with not being able to help him. I have to leave that up to him and his counselor. What I’m so afraid of are the lurking monsters……the triggers, the fear, the horrors. I don’t know how they do it, but professional counselors maintain this air of calm that’s almost impermeable. I want that ability to be able to hear the “bad stuff” and not react. I had one counselor who did display shock, but not to the point where it was in appropriate – more of a supportive acknowledgment. I’m fearful that I’m going to hear things that are just too much for me to process, even knowing what I do about the ex spath and the spath son.

I don’t want to react, and I’m a very reactional personality. I become outraged, saddened, horrified, etc., and I’ve been really working on not reacting for a while. Every now and then, I’ll have an emotional moment (like earlier today) when I let “it” out, and move on. I don’t want to react simply because I don’t want to feed the victim monkey – if that makes ANY sense. I don’t even want to talk. I’m prepared to listen, but I don’t want to disclose or discuss, unless it’s techniques that I’ve learned over the years. Even still, by simple discussion like that, I don’t want to give away too much information.

As it stands, I’m paying attention to me and the obvious triggers in an attempt to figure out different ways to manage them. I need to stay centered and focused and this is the place for me to keep working on that.

Thanks so much, OxD. You’re a real beacon to me and you provide so much insight. Brightest blessings to you.

Ox Drover

Dear Buttons,

I’m not sure I agree with your goal to “not react” when you hear new stories of “tortures” your son has endured is a good idea. A counselor (professional) is a human but them “not reacting” (*being triggered) is because they are NOT emotionally involved, you are not their mother or their sister, but they do have human compassion. I had NO problem being compassionate but not “reacting” in my own role as a counselor working with in or out patients, but I kept a PROFESSIONAL DISTANCE EMOTIONALLY if that makes any sense.

Being there to “help” is important, but I did not TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for my patients and if they failed to get better I did not “blame” myself.

It is just like when I was doing the diabetic teaching with patients, and told them “Look, diabetes is a do it yourself disease, I am like a COACH, but YOU are the team. I can tell you the rules, but it is up to you to get out on the field and play the game.”

Some patients would follow the rules and they did well, and other people would play “games” with me, like eating right for 2-3 days before they came for an appointment so their blood sugar would be down some, but I could figure out what they were doing, because there is also a blood test called an HA1-C which tells what the AVERAGE blood sugar rate is for the past 3 months, so they can’t fake me out. I even had an adult woman scream at me once “You can’t tell me what I can eat or not! I can eat what I want!” I told her “That is true, you can eat sugar out of a bowl with a spoon if that is what you want to do, but YOU are the one going to get the blindness, kidney failure and amputated limbs and strokes, so you are free to follow my advice or not, but the consequences will still be there, for YOU.”

You mental illness and the recovery from abuse and living with disordered individuals is also a DO IT YOURSELF healing path. Many people are not able or Willing to do the work it takes to get on and stay on this path, and no matter how much we love them we can’t do it for them.

When I first started teaching the diabetes patients I used to get so frustrated and sometimes even angry at patients who would just ignore good advice and I knew they were destroying their bodies unnecessarily and I would be so angry, or feel like I had to try harder some how, but you know, after being ait it a few years I realized it is my responsibility to TEACH Them correctly, but it is THEIR responsibility to ACT on that knowledge.

At the same time I was angry at them for not doing what I told them, I WAS SMOKING!!!! DUH? Talk about a hypocrit!!!! I was a professional hypocrit. I got PAID for being one! LOL ROTFLMAO

Now I realize if someone asks for my advice it is okay for me to give it to them, but I have NO pass to be mad at them if they don’t take it, and they have EVERY right not to take it. At the same time, though, whether or not I am right or wrong with my advice, THEY are the ones who have the only RIGHT to make the choice and THEY get the consequences. So if they take my advice or not, I am not going to reach out and catch the consequences if things go badly.

Buttons

Okie dokie, OxD – I get what you’re saying about the professional vs emotional association.

Yes! I know people who did that, as well: trying to fudge glucose tests and having the NERVE to act suprised when they were prescribed insulin!!!!

The boy is going to have to want to fix himself, absolutely. I can’t force it. I can’t fix it. I don’t want that responsiblity, either. More talk – more words – more suggestions! You make sense to me, OxD. You really make sense to me.

Brightest blessings!

Ox Drover

Dear Buttons, don’t want to appear to be preaching to you sweetie, but I also have “been there” abo9ut helping my older son C who is not a Psychopath but has some serious issues as well. He wasw/is also a victim of his brother and the Trojan Horse Psychopath his brother sent after us, as well as his P wife, but you know, I can’t “help” him cause he does not want (A) to ADMIT his problems, and (B) be responsible for fixing himself. He knew full well that his staying here was contengent on him NEVER LYING TO EITHER ME OR HIS BROTHER and saying what he was doing and doing what he promised. Well, he did what he promised for quite some time, over a year, but then he became unwilling to abide by the promises, so instead of manning up and saying “I think I better go somewhere else to live because I don’t want to abide by the agreement I made with yo9u” instead OF DOING THAT, HE BROKE THE AGREEMENT, THEN LIED TO COVER UP BREAKING IT, THEN PROJECTED ON TO ME, THE BLAME FOR HIM BREAKING IT! LOL Then lied to his friends about why he couldn’t live here any more. I have little doubt that he will be in grave financial condition (though he will have Tens of thousands of dollars worth of computers) before too long, with the economy what it is, he is fortunate to have a job in his field, but his boss is very old and VERY SICK and when the man dies the business will close within a week. My son has never managed his finances well, instead he buys “toys” rather than saves money for a “rainy day”—like for the next flat tire. Having money ahead enough to get a flat tire fixed is not in his agenda it seems! LOL So if he loses his job, or has vehicle trouble and no money to frix it now he has RENT to pay, no way to get to work (if he were living here and had that happen his brother would help him fix the vehicle, and I would loan him money for parts if needed, and even if he lost his job, I would let him “work out” his rent here on the farm until he could find another job if need be.)

But because he CHOSE to spend money for “toys” rather than save for a rainy day (as he had agreed to in order to live here) and had also CHOSEN TO LIE TO ME, he is no longer welcome to live here in this house. He has also lost any assistance from us for the future. NO MATTER HOW BADLY HE NEEDS IT. There will not be a mom or a brother riding to the rescue to help him any more. He is on his own from now on.

Unfortunately, his “friends” are all in the same financial boat that he is because they spend any money they can lay their hands on for “toys”—they may drive no car, or at best a rattle trap one, but they will have a 45 inch plasma or LED TV, and the lastest computer and latest phone and the best cable TV and internet hook up. So his friends are also only one pay check away from insolvency too. (“Birds of a feather flock together”.)

I love my son C Buttons, I really do, but I also know that there isn’t a way I can “help” him because he isn’t willing to help himself or at 40 years old grow up and mature! He is “stuck” at the 15 year old level of maturity—video games and so on. I will say though that he does have a great work ethic and is a good employee for his boss. He’s smart and in many ways a man I can be proud of, but in other ways, he is not someone I can TRUST. I’m sorry about that too, because I would LOVE TO TRUST HIM but he has proven time and time again that I am not able to trust him, and that he continues to think it is okay to lie to me. (Even though he gets righteo!) LOL

Buttons

Yes, OxD, I follow you on this, and you’re NOT preaching! Spath son lived with us for a total of 6 weeks before his deceptions fell apart – HE made the same decision to lie, cheat, steal, forge documents, etc…..and, he had to live up to the terms of our agreement. Out he went, and I’m still the raving bitch that left him “homeless!”

Strict boundaries are so vital, and I’m learning this slowly, but surely. The first 2 weeks are going to be “vacation” time. Help around the house, clean up after himself, but otherwise relax and decompress. After that two weeks is up, we are going to draw up a contract with goals, conditions, and consequences for breaking any part of the agreement. Yes, it seems ludicrous to have to draw up a contract with a 19 y/o, but he’s going to have to take responsibility for himself, one step at a time. We can walk beside him, but we cannot, and WILL NOT, carry him.

Ox Drover

Dear Buttons, I think you have got this all well in hand! Good for you!!!!! I thinkk otherwise it would run you NUTSO! Keep us posted on it, I will be interested to see how this boy reacts.

Good for you, glad to know that you are the same kind of “raving bitch” that I am!!!! We’re good people, us raving bitches!!!! LOL

Buttons

OxD, I guess the core of my angst is this looming fear of the monsters under the bed, so to speak. I think I may opt for counseling for ME to help me keep on center.

Yeah, I don’t mind being a raving bitch, at all! I call a spade a spade, and that’s that! 😉

Ox Drover

Dear Buttons, I think that you and I are “soul sisters” LOL Yea, I’ve had my share of counseling and in fact BEEN a professional counselor for years but you know, the thing wasn’t that I didn’t KNOW what to do, it was I didn’t apply it to MYSELF, even though I could look at a situation from the OUTSIDE AND SEE what needed to be done, I had GRAVE DEFECIENCIES IN APPLYING IT TO MYSELF.

I am now learning to look at the BOTTOMLINE in a situation and have drawn up a “manifesto” of what I will and will NOT tolerate in conduct toward me by those I trust or want to trust. I have set boundaires and they are not lies drawn in the sand that I keep backing up and redrawing any more, they are SET IN CONCRETE and I have NO doubt about “is this fair?” or is “this too harsh?”

I EXPECT others to treat me with the same courtesy, respect and honesty that I treat others with. NO EXCEPTIONS.

The unfortunate thing about my son C, though, is that he has seen me waffle over and over my entire (and his entire) life. I did not set a good example for him. He actually has some of my good qualities, but he also has a fist full of the OLD ME trained into him. He doesn’t realize that he got his LAST SECOND CHANCE to change his behavior toward me.

After his x wife and the TH-P tried to kill him and he fled the state in fear for his life, he finally decided that I wasn’t such a bitch after all and in fact he called me a “prophet.” However, when he returned here and started to get his “chit together” and his anxiety level drop to where he again felt “safe” he waffled back into some of HIS OLD BAD HABITS and ways of thinking. Actually his lies were so apparent and TRANSPARENT (Unlike his P-brother, he never was a good liar, he ALWAYS got caught!) LOL This time was no exception. And, I called him out on it. And I am glad to say CALMLY (I melted down later outside of his view! LOL) But I AM sad that he has chosen this path, because I am not sure I could EVER have a genuinely trusting relationship with him again.

Some philosopher, can’t remember who, said “I am not angry that you lied to me, but upset that I can never believe you again.” How true, how true, and HOW SAD!

honey.

i only just this second joined so i could post here… I’m sixteen,
thankyou for saying those things! my dad is a sociopath. We tried to go to court for other reasons (he kicked us out the house after having an affair when I was about 5, sold the house and moved away, and wanted full custordy of me, my mum fought against that, but he got weekend custordy) and just… nobody listened. He’s a smart, well respected, wealthy man, charming and manipulative. my mum is an actress too, he is a theatre director, so instantly “my mum is acting” I’m acting, I don’t know what I’m saying. I turned 16 last month. I started self harming when I was 5, and only just stopped last year when I was 15. I only had the guts to stop contact with him via a court when I was 13, because, due to the abuse, I ended up with M.E, which is a chronic immune illness, often caused by stress. I’ve had to drop out of school when I was 11, I still can’t go back. I’m recovering slowly, physically. But inside, I get so angry that nobody did anything. nobody listened to me, took me seriously when i said he was hurting me. in ways i didn’t know how to describe. any bruises he left, were “rough play”. how can a seven year old explain what emotional abuse is? and the sick thing, is that it still hurts every bit as much today as it did when i was 10. It still affects me. I can’t forget what he did, because I’m still ill. I was bedbound for a year, been housebound for 4. It still ruins my life. I still have scars that I have to hide from people, my realtionship with my mother suffered hugely.

And this man is still there. he never truly bothered with me, only to control me, untill I said I didn’t want to see him. and THEN he is the concerned father, writing ever birthday and christmas, blatantly ignoring everything, just… talking normally. Getting his new wife to write. His parents, my grandparents aren’t allowed to write me, because he says they need to be loyal to him. He just keeps going. I’m taking his last name off my name in a few months. Now I’m sixteen, I don’t need parental consent for that, which is something I’ve been waiting for for a long time… suffered from having a scocipathic parent? If I hadn’t been, ironically “lucky” to have gotten ill, I would have killed myself by now, no question. And I do feel lucky, because I know I will get better, and then I’m going to be happy. And that’s the worst thing I could do to him. To be happy.

And nobody sees parents like that. People need to know about them. It can’t keep destroying kids that don’t deserve it.

Ox Drover

Dear Honey,

I am so sorry that you have experienced such abuse from someone who should have nurtured you, and that others did not listen to your cries for help.

I wish I could say that your case is “unusual” but unfortunately it is not. Maybe some of the details are different, but the abuse, the failure by others to listen to the child, to protect the child.

I am also sorry that your mother has also been a victim of his abuse and that it has adversely effected your relationship with her. I hope that you are getting psychological help for yourself, because there is a LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL. This is a place where people WILL believe you, because we have all experienced in some form or manner abuse(s) from the psychopaths as well. Some of us from parents, some from lovers, and some from friends or even our own children, and some of us from ALL of the above relationships.

I am also glad that you no longer hurt yourself. I know your road to healing will be long and difficult, but I also hear the strength in your post! Everyoone here at one time or another has felt that we could not go on another minute, but by pulling together, by learning about psychopaths, what they are, how they behave, and relaizing we are NOT alone, we have strength to heal ourselves. God bless you, HOney.

Buttons

Honey…{{Gentle Hugs}} What a courageous young woman you are. To be young and experience what you did is one of the things that upsets me most about spathy – harming children.

As an adult, I had a choice to get out, and you didn’t, dear one. I think that you understand that what you experienced was something that you didn’t deserve – it seems that you do in your post, and that is a powerful bit of information for you to always keep close. You didn’t do anything to deserve it. Spaths do things to other people because they can, and not because anyone asks for it or does something to deserve it.

You’re not alone and you DO have the strength to heal, just as OxD pointed out. You will be one of those amazing women, Honey. You will be someone of substance because of who you evolve into on your healing path.

Brightest blessings upon you, Honey.

Rosa

Honey:

You are a beautiful young girl with your whole life ahead of you.

It breaks my heart that you would even consider hurting yourself.

You have got resilience and a great fighting spirit in you, Honey.

Use it for good, and your life will only get better.

It’s YOUR turn to be Happy…..

honey

my goodness… I had to get a new account because out of nowhere I thought i’d check back on here and I didn’t remember my password, i totally and completely didn’t expect those kinds of beautiful, kind comments… thank you so much.. they made me cry, in a really nice way! thank you, all of you, so much xxxxxx

ErinBrock

Honey:
Sweetie, i’m sorry!!!!
From a coparent (with a spath), I have a heavy heart to know how my kids father treats them. It’s horrid, not right and hard to put your head around.
I understand others not seeing how much help you need, because I know how others respond to my kids.
Respect your father, he’s your father…..etc….uhhhhh NOT!
Parents don’t deserve anything if they are abusive. Being a parent doesn’t automatically award you the respect medal from your kids.

I hear strength in your voice. I want to wrap my arms around you and hold you…..and tell you…..as I tell my own teenagers…..IT”S NOT YOUR FAULT!!! I’m sorry you have a father as you do.

The good news is…….YOU can decide to have a wonderful life. No, not maybe one you ‘thought’ you would have had…..a few of the players and the script has been tweeked…..BUT, nonetheless…..make it what you want for your future!

I see the struggle in my own children. It breaks my heart!!!! I know I can’t compensate for the choices their father makes, but I can choose to be the best parent I know how to be….both father AND mother!!!
One of my kids was ‘cutting’ himself several years ago…..I didn’t understand the ‘reason’s ‘ why as far as getting away from the pain via other pain……He has grown to a place, like you, where he no longer does this. THANK GOD!!
It is a sign of dealing in a healthy manner with your emotions….processing, learning and educating yourself about ‘what’ your dealing with.

I wish I could take it all away…..from you….my kids…..and any child who is going through this life with a parental sociopath.
I can’t.
All I can do, is keep a line of communication open, teach good coping skills, encourage heathy communications and model what I would like my children to be and see……and be there to comfort them, educate them, and raise their awareness to the toxicicity in the world.
The whole world is not bad……but the bad in the world seems louder than the good.

TAKE GOOD CARE…..
XXOO
EB

Ox Drover

Dear Honey,

I’m glad you checked back in, and I hope you will stay around here and READ AND LEARN. It is a hard road back from the HELL they have sent us spiraling into. My father is also a psychopath and put me through hell as well. I don’t even call him a “father” as he only was the DNA donor, the sperm donor psychopath! Being a dad/fathr takes love and commitment and he never had any of that.

You’ve had a rough ride to this age, but I hope you and your mum can repair your relationship and that she can be supportive of you. For having dropped out of school so young you sound well educated and very intelligent so use the internet and books to further your education.

I hope also that you are getting some therapy now as well. My hope for you is that you can heal these terrible wounds and get on with a normal life and relationships and a career! You are way too young to be stuck inside because of this man.

The BEST REVENGE is a LIFE LIVED WELL, and I think there ase many people here not just me that will say YES we have been DEVESTATED and BROKEN but we will RECOVER and in the end be BETTER than before.

I’m glad you can take his name off yourself and get a new start in life with this man not part of it. If necessary to keep him from contacting you, get a restraining order or what ever a court order is called in the UK to keep someone from contacting someone who does NOT want to see them.

God bless you, Honey, and don’t forget your password this time! Laugh! (((Hugs)))))

onelukygurl

On the subject of children, this is something Ive been beating myself up with lately…
I have known my ex and his now 11 year old son for 4.5 years. I met his son shortly after his 7th birthday. For quite some time his son has stayed at my house with his dad every other weekend. I have accepted him, taken care of him, loved him, and provided for him. HE IS A GREAT KID!!!

The sons mother recently got married after dating a man for 4 months. Up to this point, the son had been the sun, moon and stars to his mother and had some difficulty adjusting to the new man moving in and having an ‘insta-family’ equipped with a ‘dad” and ‘brother’. My ex’s son showed some behavioral reisistance to the change and my ex and I were there for him with a TON of support. We talked and talked and talked about how his son was ‘feeling’ and ‘ways to cope’ and ‘adjust.” I noticed my ex moving towards his son, although it seemed to be in a supportive, warm way.

Low and behold…my ex moves in with ME and I inherit an ‘insta-family’ equiped with a ‘husband’, ‘son” and ‘dog’ in my 900 square foot condo. I WAS HAVING A HARD TIME ADJUSTING…

Not only was I having a hard time adjusting to everyone being here, I was struggling with ‘handling’ the childs neediness…something I had never ‘noticed’ before. My ex and I talked about this and I tried suggesting ideas that would PROMPT his son to either form friends at my house or PROMPT independence (like reading a book on his own, listening to music, drawing…you know…kid things you do when you’re ‘bored’).

This was a HUGE point of contention between my ex and I. The more I ‘suggested’ (and offered ideas) we help his son to gain SOME independence, the more we argued. The more we argued, the more I began to feel ‘left out’ when his son was at MY house…to the point where I would say to my ex “I feel left out”, or “I feel like the third wheel”, or “I dont feel like I have any say-so in what goes on at MY house when your sons here.” THIS GOT BLAMED ON ME…by saying “you do this to yourself. You could play the game when we play one, or watch tv with us”.

WAIT A MINUTE…Aren’t WE the adults in a relationship? Isnt his son the CHILD? Please dont get me wrong…I had NO PROBLEM with doing ‘things’ as a family…NO PROBLEM AT ALL…

BUT…

Something changed…something shifted. I was somehow no longer ‘viewed’ as a part of the equation. I was the house supplier, driver, good buyer, ect, but I wasnt CONSIDERED?

Theres something innately wrong wtih this…

moveingon

Children are victims and the courts sometimes aid this. I have been in court proceedings now for 6 years. Last appearance 4th November 2011, same thing child maintenance. I have a court order he pays half for their university costs, which of course he is not going to do. Order arrived yesterday, the spath can insist my daughter be in court in Feb 2012. Why, he has not seen her in 6 years, not paid unless I send in bailiffs etc, and of course he will make sure she is there. I know she will be 19 by this date, but why allow a spath an opportunity to bully her. At his last appearance, he moaned ‘I don’t even get a father’s day card’, WTF is wrong with the spath! His last contact 6 years ago he told my daughter via email to f**k off. She was blasé about it, and thinks he is a to**er, but know it hurt her.

My daughter is okay about going to court, but I’m not, He will even get the chance to cross examine her ..she can hold her own, but why allow yet more abuse ..I have tried to rationalise it, they know he is a tw*t, and a vexatious litigant ….he thankfully does not even know which university she is studying at ..he is eaten up with jealousy. My poor daughter has even has to submit a statement, he earns over £100k a year, divorced yet again etc etc.

My daughter’s statement (which she has written) includes ‘I have not had any contact with Mr X for 6 years, and I do not want any contact now or at any time in the future. I respectively ask the court not to disclose any of my personal details to Mr X, inclusive of where I am studying’.

That of course is like igniting a fuse …her statement, but I know exactly how his twisted mind works. This hearing is for a full day. Every time we are in court he calls me a ‘whore, a slut, child abuser etc’ and they just let him rant on. I can take this carp, but my daughter ..no ..no ..no.

I know she is an adult etc, but she is still my baby. I maybe over protective, but he is representing himself (he has lost every time), and being superior to everyone else he of course is always right.

I guess I should be grateful he has stayed away, but married to someone off the internet, divorced 15 months later and now at a loose end and we all know what that means. I think he ‘enjoys’ court, even though he loses, and I am convinced its his only way to contact me, to keep on abusing. My dad (82) asked me yesterday, ‘how long do you think I’d get for murder at my age?’ ..lol ..Rant over ..

MiLo

moveingon ~ That is outrageous. I think I would ask the judge if you have to stand by and listen to him call your daughter names also.

I think I agree with your dad, wise man.

Ox Drover

Movingon,

Yea, he is using the court to hurt you….because he DOES ENJOY it, it is ATTENTION…and they thrive on that.

You may be getting some of the money he is supposed to pay for your daughter (his daughter as well) to go to school, but you know, you are being charged in BLOOD/EMOTIONAL coin, and only you can determine if it is worth it, or if it would be better spent just letting the Money go. ONLY you can decide that.

I understand your father! LOL Probably not much time. Tell him I will go his bail! LOL

Ana

Movingon,
I think we should take up a collection for your father! 🙂

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