By Joyce Alexander, RNP (retired)
One of the things I have heard from victims of psychopaths here at Lovefraud, seemingly over and over, is that people compare their losses to my losses and Donna’s losses and Dr. Liane Leedom’s losses, etc. and think that their losses don’t “count” because they haven’t lost X, Y, or Z and we did. They seem to think that because I lost a child, or Liane lost her medical practice, or Donna lost a quarter of a million dollars, that they are not entitled to feel as injured as we were/are.
The people expressing this somehow seem to have “survivor’s guilt” about feeling so devastated when their losses were somehow “less.” Or they feel that we are somehow “super heroes” because we survived “big losses.”
I felt that way too when I was reading Dr. Viktor Frankl’s book, Man’s Search for Meaning. Dr. Frankl wrote the book after his years in a German Nazi concentration camp, in which he lost everything except his life, and barely retained that.
Pain is like gas
I felt that my own losses didn’t compare to Dr. Frankl’s losses, and that somehow I should feel guilty for feeling such great pain and desperation. Then I read Dr. Frankl’s explanation of how pain operates like a gas.
In science, we learn that a gas, because it has atoms that are far apart, will expand until it completely fills an empty container. It will also compress easily so that a larger amount of the gas can be put into a small container. In any case, the container is full. It is totally filled.
I realized upon reading this that my pain was just as “total” as Dr. Frankl’s, and that my losses were just as “big” (or “small”) as his were. All pain and all loss is total. If something is important to us, we value it and when we lose it, we grieve for that loss. We feel pain, which is what grief is.
Grief process
The “grief process,” as Dr. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross explains it, is an emotional process where we come to grips with loss, and eventually come to acceptance of that loss.
Dr. Kubler-Ross’s grief process consists of denial, bargaining, sadness, anger and acceptance. These five stages of grief are not processed in a linear 1-2-3-4-5 formula, but in alternating steps, more like 1-3-4-2-3-4-1-2-4-5. Eventually we come to and stay in the last stage, which is acceptance of the loss.
A baby who drops his pacifier is totally in misery and pain. He cries from the depth of his soul’s loss that his grief is total, his pain is total and his life is ”˜ruined,’ because he doesn’t have his pacifier. Of course we know that his life is not ruined, he will recover, but he doesn’t know this at that time because he doesn’t have the knowledge and experience to know he will come to acceptance of his loss and recover.
Pain is proportional
When we lose something that we care about, our pain is in proportion to how much something means to us. If we drop a penny, usually we will not be devastated. We know that we will still be able to buy lunch, pay the mortgage and go on with life. But if we drop the bank deposit for our business and lose it, it is another matter entirely. Now we may not be able to make payroll and things will get very bad, so our loss is bigger and we grieve over the problems this will cause, the bigger loss.
When we are devastated by the loss of a “great love,” or by the betrayal of someone we trusted, depended on and cared for, we have suffered a great and grievous loss that rocks our world. It isn’t anything we can put a dollar value on; it is an emotional attachment that has no price. How do you quantify “love?”
When we have lost something that is of utter value to us, whether it is something that we can quantify, or whether it has no monetary value, only value of the heart, the soul, then we must realize that our grief is total. We must not compare our losses to what someone else has lost and feel that their loss is “greater,” because it isn’t greater. The pain isn’t greater. It is all TOTAL LOSS. The pain is total.
So if you start to feel that your loss is nothing compared to someone else’s loss, Stop! Realize that your loss, your pain, is your loss and pain. No one else’s is more or less.
Libragirl,
quote you:****
But, I finally see the manipulation and game playing. She has no clue. It was a game for both of our benefit. He had her answer to ’surprise me’ and ’hurt’ me. And, she got her first taste of doing what he wanted. I mean really, my call could have gone to voicemail. He wanted her to answer. What a douche!
End quote****
Now you see, I am so glad! The bottom line is that any contact with them smears “emotional slime” on us! That’s just the way it is.
But, at least, look at it this way…you finally got some closure in that you can now SEE WHAT A PIECE OF CARP HE IS!
I won’t boink you on the head with the skillet for this one, you got enough punishment for yourself, but I think you LEARNED FROM IT and that’s the point of the skillet in the first place to get someone to learn from their mistake! I’m sorry you had to get slimed to learn, but in the end it will be a positive experience even though it was pretty yuky. (((hugs))
Start new NC count! today is ONE
I would also like to thank Athena for the following quote
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—the psychopath’s propensity to engage in planful, deliberate, and emotionless violence (Meloy, 2006); and the strong association between sadism and psychopathy (Holt, Meloy and Strack, 1999). The central motivation of the psychopath is to dominate his objects. There is no desire for affectional relating, nor reciprocal altruism. He operates from within a dominance-submission paradigm.
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While meloy is not one of my favorite researchers and is definitely not for his writing (he is usually so much word salad) the above quote is VERY CLEAR, CONCISE for its content.
That is exactly what the guy did, Athena, you are right on. Thanks for this post.
Also, I got to thinking after my nap this afternoon that the above exchange between sky and me and kim about the definitions of shame and guilt and whether or not the psychopaths even feel shame or guilt or if they are motivated by shame, or if that is totally what motivates them or not, IT DOES NOT MATTER A TINKER’S DAMN. It is us playing semantics.
What matters in learning about psychopaths is how they act, so that we can RECOGNIZE THE RED FLAGS…their internal emotions do NOT MATTER AT ALL to me, and anyway, we can ONLY GUESS AT HOW THEY FEEL BY HOW THEY ACT, so call it shame call it bull hockey, call it whatever you want to call it and it in the end doesn’t matter. Just like whether we call the psychopaths, sociopaths, ASPD, or just TOXIC doesn’t matter.
We are not and never will be researchers on the level of Dr. Hare or any one else….we can just realize that they lack NORMAL LEVELS of empathy and that THEY WILL NOT CHANGE, that therapy isn’t gonna help them and that WE MUST AVOID THEM, we must stay away from them IF NO CONTACT IS A POSSIBLE OPTION we must exercise it completely. Unless we are required by law to engage in some contact in order to co-parent with them or for business purposes (to sue them in court or whatever we must do) but otherwise we can keep the contact to a BARE MINIMUM.
We must also realize that many of them will become STALKERS in an effort to continue the drama (they do not like NC) some others will go away and never be heard from again. What makes one a stalker and the other one disappear I do not know, that is for the researchers to determine. I imagine it has something to do with the FINAL WIN on their part, and that us maintaining NC is like a red cape waved in front of a bull, they just must have that last attempt to gore us.
In learning about them I think it is easy enough to get off on tangents of semantics….we have done that (as a group) on the word “forgiveness,” though I think this has more merit for healing than trying to figure out if the psychopaths feel shame or not.
Well, that’s my rant for today! got to go fix supper.
CallmeAthena, Ox:
I love this post. And, was unaware of it! This statement is how I would say my SPATH engaged with me the majority of the time.
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the psychopath’s propensity to engage in planful, deliberate, and emotionless violence (Meloy, 2006); and the strong association between sadism and psychopathy (Holt, Meloy and Strack, 1999). The central motivation of the psychopath is to dominate his objects. There is no desire for affectional relating, nor reciprocal altruism. He operates from within a dominance-submission paradigm.
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That’s exactly how it was/is emotional violence! Domination at its finest. And, it totally Mindf**** U! It’s gaslighting at minimum. But, utter enjoyment for him. How pathetic! No desire for affectional relating at all. Just drops the bomb and sits back and watches as you scurry around in tears, feelings hurt, trying to make sense of his madness. And, that’s why I fear he will contact me in some form of communication to lash out at me. But, not through phone. I have a feeling he will change his number now to show ‘new girl’ how loyal he is and will do ‘anything for her’..
But, what true examples of the above post:
His text: “You cried to mom?” LMFAO (emotional violence)
Letting new girl answer the phone “deliberate intent to hurt me emotionally and show dominance”
Bleh!!!
LibraGirl, Hugs.
Oxy, Hugs to you too.
Athena
I think it helps to realize they are enjoying trying to hurt you and keep in mind that the new GF is in the “love bombing” stage and she thinks he won’t treat her that way, but we know the cycle will continue…so ultimately her “happiness” will be short lived.
The cycle will come full circle and he will then find another victim.
Rinse and repeat.
Yes, Ox..
So sad and so true! And, something I just realized. When Spath and I were together, but no longer living together. His phone rang, and he handed it to me to answer. I said “Hello”..and, I got a hang up. WoW! Not sure what I was thinking at the time he asked me to do this, but I did it. Just goes to show you …such deceptive shady creatures. Probably a girl he had spoken with and wanted her to stop calling? Idk…too late to wonder.
Rinse and repeat.
And, what a tiring miserable life he does lead. Too never be satisfied with what you have.. to go to the extremes of getting to know new supply and doing it all over again…
So, he witnessed how a possible girl that called his phone reacted when she heard a female voice..she hung up.
I however did not 🙂 He’s had me pegged wrong for so long now. I always confront things..lol (it may not seem like it now, but I do)
Libragirl
The good news is that you got away from him the bad news is he’s still in your head.
But you learned something. A zebra doesn’t change his stripes. His core will not change. His antics might, or might not change. The game he played with you and the phone he has already played again, and will probably do it yet again.
My spath’s repeating trick was picking women off of a particular internet site. He always had the same MO. Presented the same believable story. He had very little creativity now that I see the entire pattern.
Gross.
Callmeathena,
Yes, I got away! My spirit is bruised, my body healed but my mind constantly wonders and is in a state of confusion. I am notoriously going back months in my head retracing every step to see if this was a lie or that was a lie…And, a few times early enough in the beginning there were strange occurences. The lawyer he was so fond of that was taking care of his inheritance money that was stalled and never seemed to surface..was in his phone under his Contacts List as : DUMBazz lawyer..So, I would see the phone light up and see this name/number appear. He would on most occasions be out of ear shot to listen to the actual conversation. But, one time late at night about 11p.m. his phone rang..he looked at it and set it down. I asked “Why wouldn’t you answer that? Maybe, the money is ready?” Oh, I’ll call him back tomorrow. Well, when he fell asleep I did what any curious girl would do and wrote the number down and called it from work the next day. When it rang it was a females voice and it didn’t start a greeting off professionally like this is “Mr/Mrs. blanks office”. So, I asked..is this the law office of Mr. Blank. The female voice said “um, no it’s not..”. And, I hung up. Right after that… his mom called my work and had *69’d the number. He had his moms number in his phone under DUMBass lawyer!
2 months prior his mom had evicted him from her house and then he went on with stories of restraining orders etc. But, in reality he was speaking to his mom whenever he wanted! Scccarrry!