Editor’s note: Joyce M. Short is the author of a just released book, “Carnal Abuse by Deceit.” The book chronicles her life with a predator, the subsequent aftermath and her road to recovery. It also provides advice for victims and their supporters, and discusses the issues surrounding criminalization of rape-by-fraud. Joyce lives in New York City, where she’s a real estate broker, professional tennis instructor and a strong advocate for her community.
By Joyce M. Short
Does Love Potion #9 Really Exist?
The hit record written by Leiber & Stoller back in 1959, Love Potion #9, was originally recorded by The Clovers and published by the Aberbach brothers who owned Hill & Range Songs Inc. It’s been covered by over twenty five other artists since its original release. Although it’s a spoof on a chemical concoction that makes people fall in love, it’s not so far from the truth.
Romantic love has recently been shown to be a chemical addiction, similar to drugs and alcohol, but, when all goes well, it supports life instead of diminishing it. The chief chemical component in romantic love is oxytocin, a neurotransmitter produced in the brain that creates a sense of trust and cleaves us to our love interests. When we are betrayed, although we may feel abused and defiled, we can continue clinging to the offender because of our need to replace that “loved” feeling. The immediate cessation of the chemicals we recognize as love, may cause us to long for the treacherous offender just like an alcoholic craves a drink.
“No Contact” is all about getting rid of the desire and longing that comes with separation. The victim must be able to gain perspective that enables them to see the forest, not just the trees. The bigger picture, the moral deprivation of the betraying party, is far too important to allow ourselves to camouflage their actions by attributing good feelings to them. It is too easy for a predator to misuse our brain chemistry to wangle their way back into our lives.
Interestingly, the Aberbach fortune existed in the backdrop of the harm I was dealt. They owned a 50% share of Elvis Presley, 10% of the Beatles, and 75% of the music coming out of Nashville. My ex was harbored by an Aberbach widow as he abandoned my child and defrauded me of child support. The irony of oxytocin being akin to Love Potion #9 is particularly poignant for me.
Joyce
Thank you Joyce. It is really important for people to realize that there are biological reasons why it is so difficult to break free from the sociopath. These relationships are highly addictive, and they need to be treated like addictions.
Does being with a narcissist induce this same chemical? Can I take all these things about spaths to happen with the narc too? I have been with a narc for 2 yrs and its been hellish. I figured out he was pathologically self-centered a year b4 I left (recently). I think he fits the definition on NPD. Now that I’ve left, he tries to be no contact lol. I just don’t exist anymore (well at least with any worth) becuz I wont follow his orders. The 1st month I was ok, didn’t miss any of the hell, ignored all his texts and wen I’d go back to pack and move stuff, if he was present, I would do no more than a polite hi when I went in, then ignore his verbal/mental abuse the rest of the time. Can you say extreme strength? Wait, maybe it was just I was so practiced at it (there were many times I just silently took the abuse to prevent escalation over something “not worth it”).
Then, becuz as always (ive left several times b4), I start rly missing him becuz it COULD be soooo good. If he could just learn to look at things from ANYone else’s perspective. Everything bad about him is from the pathological self-absorption. I can trace everything to that and depression (which he refuses to treat). It’s been exactly 7 wks I left and the last 3 have been bad, getting increasingly awful, NOT BETTER. I had major surgery 12/18 and wanted him to be there so bad when I woke up. I was txting with him again at that point but that’s it. I have not seen him since I left the last time I was moving stuff out. I have not spoken to him on phone even. I have stopped myself from seeing him in person at great emotional expense (cried uncontrollably in the car 12/26 – I tried going out and about again post-op, no im not on painkillers any longer, it wasn’t that).
I K.N.O.W. I can not fix him and “US” was never the issue. It’s not a relationship problem, it’s his damaged personality. Unless he were to get professional help, consistently, I cannot be with him, at all. Yet even after the time I was away from him, it still came back. Yes I think I was just numbed for a month or so. So traumatized and dealing with moving an hr away, with little kids, absolute poverty (moved in with friends), and my insane medical issues.
I have been married to a spath (thank god he finally abandoned us and is stuck far far away so even when HE selfishly misses the kids and tries to call I generally ignore him as it screws up the kids emotionally; yes I am blessed to be able legally to do this). Now I end up almost as abused by a narc. WTF??? but I am very emotionally-tied to this man and the spath I have nothing but well, nothing for…not even pity. the narc I can see myself never ever ever getting over. and the pain is just so stinking great some days im sure im losing my mind, btwn the physical pain now and the psychic pain.
its been so long that I have wanted to be with the narc, the last few months I was there from sheer lack of A/N/Y where to go–lying to him basically that I wanted to be there. No, rly…a shelter was worse IMO and that’s where I’d have had to go, rly. Then one time I had to leave for a few days (yes, I paid dearly afterwards for doing this) and thot about making the split then…and cudnt do it…so I guess even tho I say I wanted to, when I had the chance, I cudnt bear it. Finally it got so insane with my health issues, I snapped (back to reality? lol) and fled basically.
So this is newer feelings and im having a hard time going thru the shit ppl do with the spath as hes “just” a narc…everything is related to his insecurity and such and its not that he’s unhuman like a spath. there IS hope for a narc, there is none for a spath (even if no one ever officially said that, I. Have. Lived. It.).
sigh sorry for the giant ramble.
Hélène
aintgonnatakeitnomore – I believe what you are experiencing is normal for disengaging from the disordered personality. The most telling thing you said was that the first month you were numb. Being numb is a psychological protective measure – it protects you from the overwhelming pain of his behavior. Now you’re actually starting to recover, so the numbness is wearing off – and you’re experiencing the pain.
This DOES NOT MEAN that you want him. It means that the terrible pain is rising to the surface so that you can deal with it.
DO NOT GO BACK TO HIM. I guarantee you that eventually it will be much worse, and you will have to leave again, except you will have even less strength.
There is another reason why you are experiencing so much pain. You are feeling not only the pain of the narc, but also of the previous sociopath. And, if you look deeply enough, you’ll probably also find this pain is connected to whatever happened earlier in your life that made you vulnerable to both of these men.
I recommend that you now make the decision to recover from all of it. It will take time, but in the end it will be worth it. We have many articles on Lovefraud that will help you – look in the “recover from the sociopath” section in the gray menu bar above.
yeah I was numb and MAD AS HELL. RLY SUPER MAD. like seething for weeks. im not going back. im not. I wudnt last 2 days without KNOCKING HIS ASS OUT. my tolerance for any BS is gone.
BUT
I want to be with him if he got help and showed consistent effort.
that’s my problem, I believe he is fixable; all the stuff ive read about the kind of narc he is and I know a lot about his childhood and other relationships with women, seems like theres hope for him. he’s miserable, he doesn’t want to be like this, he wants to be with me (no, this isn’t wat he’s saying to me…its my observation over the yrs). he’s just never dealt with someone who had so much experience with idiots lol. he cant stand my strength, it makes him so pissed wen I don’t cower.
there is no recovering from the spath. I am ok with that. I am old. I will die in the next 20-30 yrs, I can cope with the trauma (flashbacks, req’d present interactions etc) till then…the trauma of widowhood being thrust upon me at 25 took 10 yrs to get anywhere near over it as he was my best friend too–my soulmate. I have other tragedies in my life that I have survived (im a barrel of laughs huh). to recover from the narc would be alright too but recovery is something I haven’t figured out yet after 45 yrs of chaos (broken home at age 8 and just goes from there). I certainly don’t have the means to pursue it now either. I don’t want anyone else either, sigh. truly I just want Jim, the best side of him. im childish and I know it. I just rly am sick of this after half a century. we are so compatible and I kept telling him wen we first got together how I had been looking for him for 20 yrs without knowing it.
except yeah, hes really really broken. and there is no glue I can get to seal his cracks.
Hello Joyce,
I think I know the answer…but do men have this? Maybe not oxytocin but anything chemical after or while being in love?
Sick@heart – Both men and women experience the effects of oxytocin.
Oxytocin is the chemical that makes trust possible, and trust is the foundation of human society.
However, sociopaths do not respond to oxytocin, or do not respond in the same way. Researchers have theorized that sociopaths do not have the proper oxytocin receptors so that the neurotransmitter can work properly.
Donna is absolutely correct, I am no biologist, but I am the victim of Immigration Fraud through marriage, also have stopped drinking alcohol to try to save the marriage I “thought” was real. Only to discover my “wife” substantially and materially misrepresented her marital status – 10 months after we married (in Cuba) she was (and is still) with another man there. I am having great difficulty breaking away, even though I know the facts. Bigamist – Yes, Narcissist – Yes. Difficult to break the 7 year bond – Yes.
Donna’s response is 100% correct. Additionally, testosterone can interfere with oxytocin production. Testosterone creates competitiveness and drive. It can be the force behind success in business, politics, etc. It’s ceased being uncommon for the sexual proclivities of a politician to come under scrutiny. It seems to support the concept of “balance” between testosterone and oxytocin that is needed to have healthy relationships.
Inadequate oxytocin functioning in both men and women will result in lack of “affective” empathy and is likely to render the person unable to feel compassion for their fellow man. That’s why it is not a good idea to return someone who was exposed for moral issues back to public office, no matter how well they performed their job. Their lack of conscience is innate and will not change.
It follows suit that we should stay away from a disordered partner once we know what (notice I didn’t say “who,”) they are.
JmS
Will-
You were able to stop drinking through “will” power, (pun intended!) You need to stop contact with your ex through “will” power as well. The difference between them is that you physically imbibed chemicals when you drank, and those chemicals gave you a feeling that you liked and wanted to replace. You don’t see, taste or smell the chemicals that your brain produces, but they’re there none-the-less.
Just like you were able to stop your drinking habit, you’ll need to stop the chemical addiction of your relationship habit. In much the same way alcoholics need to stay away from addictive exterior chemicals, betrayed lovers need to stay away from addictive internal chemicals. You can do this. You’ve beaten alcohol. You have the courage and fortitude to get through this and break away.
Replace those chemicals that made you feel good and loved with other activities to pump up your endorfins. Through physical exercise, exposure to beauty and pleasure, activities that build your self esteem such as kind acts you do for others, you’ll be able to shake the addiction you feel.
Wishing you great success in getting your life back on track and finding a truly fulfilling connection in 2014!
JmS
Ain’t-
The quick answer is that Narcissists, Borderlines, Sociopaths/Psychopaths, etc, use a compelling and addictive form of seduction. While all romantic love stirs up our brain chemistry, the betrayals that result from relationships with predators, (who have no empathy or conscience) can result in an even more intense form of addiction. You thought you were loved, but found out that the person was really incapable of love. From an intense high, you were thrown into a state of chemical deprivation that creates longing. And to add to the confusion, that realization did not occur all at once, but over a period of time. They groomed us into accepting their betrayals step by painful step.
If ever there were watchwords to convey how to determine whether the person you’re with is a predator, they could be, “if (s)he could just learn,” as you stated in your post. I think every single one of us on this blog has said the same thing to ourselves over a thousand times, and thought, somehow, that we could teach them what we know they are missing. Afterall, it’s simple for us to be caring. “Wouldn’t everybody want to be “if” they only knew how? Surely, no one in their right mind would chose to be cruel,” or would they?
And that’s the critical key. “Cluster B’s” don’t know how to care, and they want to be cruel. They lack affective empathy through either genetics, or early development, or both. And we can’t take them backwards in time to instill character that they simply lack. It isn’t until we can finally grasp that “Cluster B” folks have no caring, and that we’re incapable of putting it into their brain, that we begin to recognize what truly happened and get ourselves back to reality.
Remaining in reality, “my intense love was wasted on a person who looks good in a suit, but who’s underwear is toxic,” can keep you focused on getting your life back on track. We all need to learn to check out the underwear of our next romantic encounter before we give our hearts away!
JmS
ah but theres the rub, he is not without empathy. he wud apologize to me when he felt he had been/done wrong (yes, only about 10% of the time he should have but the spath never said an honest word to me). in fact all that u said about being the person being incapable of love to me being groomed describes perfectly the spath.
the narc I know feels deeply; he felt bad wen he hurt someone close. it was days he was crying even at times, he had gone thru the same hurt by another and could EMPATHIZE with the person whom he had hurt. they did not ever see it, I doubt it was for my benefit…
I don’t think I can teach him, lord knows ive worn myself out trying to reason with him “how would YOU like it if, what would YOU feel if I or if the kids, what do YOU want to happen when”. ive begged him to get professional help. ive always said its US that could get relationship help, like im at fault too…this is gona sound terribly egotistical here, but I am not problem, nor is our relationship. its his unrelenting self-centeredness. yet I never insinuated that even, till the very end. that day I said, you need help, you seriously need help. do you hear yourself?? We Are Thru. (I had never said we were thru b4)
he also does choose to be cruel, it mite get his agenda pushed thru. hes the type of person who says something and THEN thinks about if he should say it. combine those 2 things and any conflict with him is deadly as far as verbal abuse.
what I want is for him to be self-aware. to see how disordered he is. to T.R.Y. just to step back and/or say im sorry, quickly as he works thru shit he obviously has in his psyche. I cant teach him, I cant do anything. it has to be him. the diff btwn him and the spath is that Jim could change, the spath is incapable…and even thinking that about another human dehumanizes ME in a way, I hate to comprehend that fact about spaths.
so I wallow here, knowing the man loves me as much as Jim can love anyone besides the great love of his life—>Jim. knowing he has so many great things about him and knowing it’s all negated by the terrible, awful thing he also is.
aintgonnatakeitnomore:
Gotta correct you… he isn’t without PRETENDING empathy. He knows what you want in order to string you along, Pretending is Just One of His Tools.
There isn’t a victim of lovefraud here on this site that hasn’t tried to reason with their abuser, trying to get them to understand or be self-aware, thinking that if their abuser just understood the damage they were doing, that surely they wouldn’t do it.
But… you already know, don’t you… he dehumanizes you. He PRETENDS.
He has so many great things about him… if only they weren’t ALL ALL ALL a lie.
If only they weren’t all just tricks he uses to manipulate for a gain that ONLY he wants.
what dehumanizes me is acknowledging the fact that the spath is not human. even in this, he traumatizes me. amazing how i have nothing left for this being, no fear, sadness or hate, let alone love or sympathy, yet i can still get some bad from it all…ah, Life.
yeah i did the pretend empathy thing from the spath. this narc doesnt pretend; its his world everyone can like it or leave it lol (he has no contact with his extended family the last 3yrs as he finally had it with their not realizing he rules the world)
He knows the damage he’s done, to some extent, when he will admit he was in saying or doing something wrong. but to a normal person, its just a totally diff world. calling someone names when ur mad at them, at 50 yrs old, is just pathetic to a normal person.
the things i like about him arent a lie. he doesnt string me along. even now, he doesnt want contact with me. he’s afraid of being hurt again…this makes me just shake my head. all he sees is the hurt from me. it rly makes rofl i did not treat him, nor would i have his kids, anything like he did me. he would have never tolerated it lol yet he makes up these offenses from me. i have learned that this narc needs to be treated a certain way…not normal love and affection, but the way he says when he says, how he says till he says hes had enough and now wants it this way (no, im not talking sex)…or its a great offense to him and its never-ending false hurt and fallen pride ad nauseum. besides the things he makes up out of thin air. so hes the victim here-of me-in his head, and hes protecting himself from me.
so be it. i will not admit to things that are in his head. i will do nothing to try and get him back or get him to take me back. i dont want him at all unless he tries to get help and that would take a long time at that b4 i’d even attempt anything with him.
i just cant stand this sadness. he will not admit he’s got anything wrong with him the few times ive tried dialoguing with him about wat happened, since i left. so i can not go near him. he wont see the damage hes done, when i freaking LEFT and stayed mute for how long? then he wont see it, probably ever. the sadness just overwhelms me and i know from past tragedies, it doesnt go away with time. its just gnaws a hole in my soul.
what doesnt kill you, does NOT make you stronger. it just weakens you even more. ive lived this for the last 24 yrs, rly b4 that becuz my mom died when i was 14. i cant pretend life will get better becuz i try hard. that makes no diff. im just sad.
Ain’t-
I hear interest on your part to see “empathy” in his brain. And I also hear that you’re feeling pretty downtrodden. Sometimes, gaining a clearer picture can be the “ah ha” moment that enables us to propel ourselves back onto our feet so I offer you the following:
There is a great deal of cross-over in character disorders and some will show more or less of the characters from other classifications. I know you think of him as a Narcissist. And, like a Narcissist, he seems singularly self-centered. But the harm from a Narcissist comes from their struggle for self-agrandizement. They will do anything, including throwing everyone close to them under the bus, to get themselves there.
What you’ve described about your “Narc” sounds more like Borderline Personality Disorder, (BPD,) and I’ll tell you why….
BPDs constantly have rifts, (splits), with others. Their concept of relationships is “my way or the highway.” They are the all knowing, and people who don’t do things their way always feel the threat of separation hanging over their head.
They are never responsible for wrongdoing. They cannot tolerate any form of shame, regardless how minor or heartfelt. Here is where the lack of empathy comes in….. they constantly do careless, inconsiderate or harmful things, and make them all your fault. And God forbid you call them on it, you are the worst thing that walked the earth.
They will turn on you because after a while, you will have your fill of their wrongdoing and begin to protect yourself. They will experience that as your harming or shaming them. There is no “gray” in the eyes of a BPD. They see people as either all black or all white. Once you’ve been relegated to the “black” category, it’s all over. They are incapable of agreeing to disagree or putting aside anger for the greater good of preserving the relationship.
After they feel they have punished you enough and their anger has cooled, they could come wandering back in time. But, even though you experienced what you thought was love from him, now you’ll be aware that he is simply incapable of it. Normalcy is short-lived in life with a BPD and the rifting, “my way or the highway” behavior will be back in a heartbeat.
At the core of Narcissism is an intense need to protect their reflection. At the center of BPD is a deathly fear of abandonment that resulted from either abandonment or betrayal (could be harsh or abusive treatment) early in their life. Both disorders, however, have the common characteristic that they are unable to feel “affective” empathy for others.
The fact that a BPD punishes with abandonment is an attempt to prevent themselves from being abandoned. Their fear of abandonment is deeply rooted. You can’t fix it. It has nothing to do with you.
Those things that you love about him are still there, and their attraction for you makes it difficult to emotionally let go. All your defenses against his accusations choke you to your core because he will not listen and give you closure. He can’t because he has a defect. You need to recognize and deal with your loss. You fell in love with a ticking bomb. You had a life before he wandered into it. And you can have a life now.
You have had difficulty with the relationships you’ve encountered. If these men had not seen your ability to be caring and loving, they would not have chosen to be with you. There are people in society that are not disordered, and because you’re a loving, caring person, you have the tools to create a better life. It starts with you loving yourself and giving yourself an enjoyable life, with or without a mate.
Time, knowledge, and doing the things you enjoy will help you recover.
JmS
this is for jmshort but I have no reply button for her last post to me, no matter which browser I try:
very true
i should look into BPD more. to understand it for ME, not for him.
but whichever, i feel better 2day.
the no-closure thing was bothering me i know, but now closure seems to be coming from the dialogue we’ve been having the past 3 wks. i flat out typed last nite,
u wont look at u.
just stay trapped in ur disordered thinking. it makes sense to no one but you but as long as ur happy.
ur choice. i can do nothing.
this morning i felt alot of closure. as the day goes on, i feel closure.
(the pill i took so i could sleep last nite mite be part of it too lol–AH BLESSED SLEEP)
thanx for all the input, everyone
Hélène
notwhathesaid,
I would have to agree, my wife is doing it again, as we had some email contact that started over an argument the other day concerning our kids.
She is as usually now blaming me for everything, saying its my fault the business and her day job were jeapordized even though shes the one who kicked me out, shes claiming im highly aggressive and it puts her life in danger even though 3 weeks ago she came after me 3 times in an hour before I could get all my stuff out the house, she even accused me of sticking her head in the toilet, I had marks all over me, of course she is now saying of course I do cause it was from her trying to get me off of her WTF??? Shes saying she put in all the effort and I did nothing (typical her) she takes the credit for everything and discludes me which makes me look bad to others. Now she is saying I spent 80% of my time on the phone or playing video games, which is impossible as I was running her company, carting our kids to and from school, doing most the house chores.
She knows ive never cheated and it makes her mad when I say it, she just said yesterday “so you haven’t cheated, you act as if you deserve some reward” all I said was the only reward I want is a loyal woman. And with the 3 diff guys ive busted her talking to behind my back, 1 of which she snuck off with twice, shes still claiming she never cheated LOL. Basically everything she has done to me over the years, she makes out as if im the one who did it. Saying she kept me around for 9 years cause she had false hopes it would work (um excuse me, that’s why I stayed false hopes)
these people are insane!!!
realize that just everything the sick person says to you is a PROJECTION of what they are doing/saying. they know what they are doing, even if they dont want to do it. they pretend ur the one doing it. it makes u rly rly doubt reality. YOU are the one grounded in reality, not they. repeat this to urself, u are sane one. u are not the selfish one, the cheating one, the lazy one, the ignoring one…THEY ARE. u dont need to inform them of this, but keep telling urself, they are not thinking sanely. they are justifying, rationalizing and minimizing and one way to do this is by projecting their behavior on u.
dont listen.
ideally dont listen to their voice at all, ie NO CONTACT but at least just dont let any of their words sink in and matter. they dont matter. the spath does not matter. YOU DO.
finally.
FREEDOM!
aintgonnatakeitnomore,
this is exactly what my wife does to me, she tears our family apart then claims its all my fault, that she just cant do this anymore as if shes protecting herself from me, tells me all I am is a disappointment to her, that I hurt her physically/emotionally, I don’t help provide, I don’t spend time with my kids ect ect…on and on and on, shes actually describing herself. My son yelled at her several months ago cause she keeps her head buried in her laptop or on her smartphone from the time she gets off work until bed, even brings the phone to bed, and will sit there playing in the phone, answering emails at midnight, shes obsessed with the business and has neglected all of us for months on end now, and of course she justified that too.
I don’t know if these people are just evil and manipulative, or if they truly have convinced themselves they did no wrong and we are the ones who wronged them?
I will keep posting from sites until I myself get well.
“When we have finally gotten to know the personal characteristics of an individual, and we find that we cannot say we love those characteristics. Yet we insist that we still love the person. Never mind that this person lies to us, cheats on us, slanders us to others, even physically abuses us”we insist we hate their character traits but we love the person. It is this so-called “love” which justifies why we are still holding on after leaving it. Whatever the reason for it, this is describing someone who has created a fantasy around the objectionable character. We are not in love with the person”we are/were in love with the idea of who we’ve decided this person is in spite of the evidence to the contrary. This is not reality-based thinking. To insist a person is “good” despite what bad things they actually do is an exercise in imagination only.
Perhaps we insist that we love what this person could be if they only tried (been there a hundred times). This too, is a refusal to live in reality. To keep insisting that we love the rotten character is our way of holding on to what/whom? We white-wash their character in order to convince ourselves we need to stay connected to them.
When we finally stop pretending that we love a person who was actually hateful towards us then we are finally able to “let it go”. The key component of mental health is the mind which insists on living in reality/in the truth. We are not doing our mental health any favors by engaging in these mental games which allow us to stay in a bad place. If we don’t love what a person does then we can’t accurately state that we love (d) the person. “When I was basing reality on his web of lies and finally wanted to break free to be healthy again”“why was I concocting my own web off lies?” I allowed myself to stay “connected emotionally” basing my feelings that were all based on lies, the mask, the fantasy. After removing yourself from his web of lies, you need to undo your own web of lies that keep you emotionally hooked to him”.
Hi,
Those were all really good comments.
I don’t know if he was a narcissist a sociopath or a borderline. He has some of the traits of all of them. I doubt it matters, other than I know I couldn’t live there for one more minute when I was pushed to my limit. I couldn’t breathe anymore.
Literally couldn’t breathe, I was so afraid for so long. Afraid of being wrong, bad, not enough for another minute. Afraid of trying and failing one more time. Afraid of not thinking anymore about anything that mattered.
I was a child in my own home. My teenage sons had more power than I did. But in the end, he has my kids, my home, my community. All respect for me has been lost by all the people I knew, he slandered me to the point of no return. I lost so very much.
Yet, he didn’t get me.
Why isn’t there more help for people like us out there? Why do the people we love not trust us at all? Why did they all choose him over me? How do I explain this to my 18 year old and 15 year old who won’t speak to me? I spent my life protecting them and making them feel good about themselves.
I went to the peace house after I left, looking for help. I was sitting in a room with a woman with a black eye and wished that I was her. My community, family, and friends would understand then. I wouldn’t be alone.
No one gets it. He took my therapist away too. I wanted someone to tell me that I wasn’t crazy. The only place I found that was the internet. I found a sight about verbal and emotional abuse and emailed them. A lady wrote me back and said I wasn’t crazy.
I started to heal that day.
I have a long way to go
Thank you for good information and helping me heal.
Bless us
JmS,
“BPDs constantly have rifts, (splits), with others. Their concept of relationships is “my way or the highway.” They are the all knowing, and people who don’t do things their way always feel the threat of separation hanging over their head. ”
“they constantly do careless, inconsiderate or harmful things, and make them all your fault. And God forbid you call them on it, you are the worst thing that walked the earth. ”
” At the center of BPD is a deathly fear of abandonment that resulted from either abandonment or betrayal (could be harsh or abusive treatment) early in their life. Both disorders, however, have the common characteristic that they are unable to feel “affective” empathy for others.
The fact that a BPD punishes with abandonment is an attempt to prevent themselves from being abandoned. Their fear of abandonment is deeply rooted. You can’t fix it. It has nothing to do with you.”
You just described my wife, her parents shuffled her back n forth, and even off on other family members, they treated their other children from new marriage like gold and my wife was the odd ball out, the put her in an institution when she was 13 for some kind of suicide threat/attempt.
When we moved in together she said “please never leave me” while making love once she said “we have to make this work cause we just cant be apart”
Yet she kicks me out at least once a year.
Twice she has told me “your never coming back, ill never forgive you” only to have me move back in, make love to me and tell me “how right this feels”
She has all the potential in the world, attractive, smart, hard working, great in bed, but her attitude ruins it all and makes her so ugly.
I asked her once after the whole “we just cant be apart during sex thing” why did you say that only to kick me out a month later? She said “oh david it was just the heat of the moment” I said “so in other words a lie”?
I hate hearing things like that only to be tossed to the curb like a bum, I cannot stand people that mess with others feelings like this.
I have been the one abandoning my toxic fiancé–3x for diff reasons I broken it off or moved out. He would never leave me as he Does Not Want To Be Alone. that his main thing…I am sure his emotional abandonment from his dad wen young is at play here…plus his 1st wife left him for his best friend so hes always sure I was cheating…but there is also the projection factor I talked about–he’s the one trying to at least cheat, not I, and I gave him no reason to think that.
some of the stuff ive looked at seem to incorporate rejection for the narc too. I have one article (8 page long lol) that is like a goldmine for understanding narcs, 4 diff types of them.
but BPD seems to maybe be relevant too.
either way, they are toxic.
u seem like a nice guy david, I hope u can maintain contact with ur kids but get away from her, emotionally at least.