Man, it’s not easy out there. Your partner clearly has a major personality disturbance, but sometimes separating borderline, narcissistic and sociopathic behavior can be hard. Real tough. Especially when there are spill-over behaviors, cross-contaminating behaviors and attitudes (as there often are) that further muddy the diagnostic waters.
Let’s look at rage, for instance. Rage is a major marker of the borderline and narcissistic personality. Sociopaths, being essentially malignant, high-end narcissists, like any full-blown narcissist, are also capable of frightful, bullying, abusive rages.
The borderline’s rage, much like the narcissist’s, tends to be elicted by disappoinment. And it’s not always “abandonment”-related. When the borderline, much like the narcissist, feels uncatered to, neglected or invalidated, WATCH OUT!!!!
The “tsunami” will be coming in a gigantic, overwhelming, RATIONALIZED WAVE. That wave will crash on you with shocking, destructive force, threatening to take your legs out from under you.
The sociopath’s rage is also elicited, commonly, by the frustration of his needs, demands, expectations. When that’s not the case, he may be salivating for some excitement, perhaps to escape the accumulating tension of his boredom; and so he may want a good dust-up to entertain himself: Unleashing his rage in a bullying assault may do the trick.
Remorse for the impact and damage of their rages is often missing in all three cases. Incredible, really INCREDIBLE rationalization, plus the astounding absence of self-reflection and accountability, is commonly missing as well.
The borderline feels as justified in his raging as the narcissist. His raging is pure narcissism being acted-out in the moment. The borderline, it is true, may later plead for forgiveness, but this is not always the case. Some borderlines will not pursue you at all after they’ve degraded you in a rage.
And not to confuse matters, but some narcissists and sociopaths will lobby for your forgiveness and amnesty after abusive displays in sometimes florid gestures of contrition.
The borderline and narcissist are both notorious vacillators along the idealizing-devaluing continuum. They are both “splitters” in the sense of perceiving others in rigidly black and white ways. When in their good graces, you are fantastic; their greatest luck and good fortune was to have met you; but disappoint them, and you are likely, suddenly, abruptly, to qualify as the worst, most despicable person they ever had the misfortune to cross paths with.
Sociopaths, in this sense, may be so disconnected, so pathologically disengaged from, and indifferent to, the emotional lives of others that, paradoxically, they may bring less of this particular kind of “splitting” drama to the table than borderlines and the typical narcissist.
This isn’t to suggest that sociopaths don’t “act out” in an outrageous variety of destructive ways. They can, and do.
And devaluation and contempt of others deeply, definingly characterizes the sociopath’s perspective; it’s just that the sociopath may actually exercise, and experience, his twisted emotional disconnection from others with sometimes (but not always!) less volatility than your typical borderline or narcissist. He may sometimes be more predictably, continuously indifferent, contemptuous and emotionally uninvested in others than his borderline or narcissistic counterpart.
The borderline can be callous and cruel, as can the narcissist and sociopath. Hmmm. When we are dealing with a callous, cruel individual whose aim is to BE DESTRUCTIVE (at least in the moment), with no compunction or remorse, but only contempt and hate for the object of his rage, then at least, for the moment, it may be somewhat immaterial which personality disorder we’re dealing with.
We may know later, but at the time, what difference does it really make? The individual’s present intent is clear—to hurt, destroy, inflict pain (in the borderline’s case, perhaps to discharge his pain by inflicting pain). But the experience on the other end, on your end, may be largely the same. You will feel variously abused, humiliated, threatened, degraded.
As noted, all three personality types may (or may not) later show contrition, thus contrition doesn’t accurately distinguish them. Plus, gauging the sincerity of an apology, its depth, is tough business. So again, this isn’t easy. Who are we dealing with? And does it even, always, matter?
I might add this rather vague, but possibly valid, observation: When borderlines aren’t “borderlining,” they are often really good and good-hearted individuals. They are often generous, authentic, sensitive and giving individuals. This is obviously a generalization. There are “borderlines” who, even when they aren’t raging, may be self-centered, jerky individuals, unpleasant and messed up in a million other ways. Still, many borderlines when they’re functioning above their “rage modes” are genuinely engaged, empathic, loving individuals.
You can not say this about the sociopath. This doesn’t mean the sociopath can’t “put this on.” But the sociopath, even when he isn’t obviously “sociopathing,” is always who he is at bottom: a cold, empty, empathically deficient, transgressive-minded individual who, at best, covers up his core contempt of others’ dignity and boundaries.
Not so with borderline personalities.
And narcissists who aren’t full-blown, those who retain a capacity to reflect on their narcissism (as some do) and its impact on those around them–which is tantamount to saying they retain a capacity (in less self-centered states of mind) to reflect on their impact on others with some degree of empathy–these narcissists, too, may be capable of authentic generosity, engagement and compassion, which makes them less incorrigible (and perhaps thus even more confusing) than the sociopath who, if he may sometimes present as the more stable, consistent personality, is clearly the most pathological of them all.
This article is intended to introduce the complicated challenge of differientating these volatile, destructive personalities; it is the first of several I intend to write.
(This article was copyrighted © 2012 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of the male gender pronoun was strictly for convenience’s sake and not to imply that females aren’t capable of the attitudes and behaviors discussed.)
Yay, I can post again (my computer was acting up.) I agree, this is a very useful article; it points out that the behaviors of these three disorders overlap, making it difficult to distinguish between them sometimes.
I’ve been reading about psychopathy and trying to understand what it is more clearly, and finally I think I understand after going over Dr. Robert Hare’s Psychopathy Checklist: psychopathy is the COMBINATION of antisocial personality disorder PLUS narcissistic personality disorder.
And YES: sometimes a person with borderline personality disorder will also have some narcissistic pd traits AND some antisocial pd traits along with it, and when that happens” voila! Psychopathy! Perhaps its sub-clinical psychopathy, but its just as toxic and destructive.
Imagine being raised by a parent with these traits and behaviors; imagine having a mother with borderline pd AND narcissistic pd AND some antisocial pd traits. That’s what happened to my younger Sister and me. We are lucky to be as functional as we are, frankly.
I recently came across a research study that proposes that borderline personality disorder may be the “female phenotypic presentation of psychopathy”, and from my point of view and experience, that makes total sense. I buy it.
Here is the link to that study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3323706/
Just to add that there is a growing body of research and theory around gender bias in diagnosing more women than men with borderline PD.
Historically far more women were diagnosed BPD than men in treatment or incarceration settings; conversely far more men than women receive an Anti-social PD diagnosis.
Recently researchers are finding higher rates of BPD in men, both in treatment and prison settings and in community studies. There is speculation in the literature that some of the traits of BPD are culturally engendered as female, that women borderlines are more likely to seek a diagnosis and to present for treatment than male borderlines and that there may be culturally determined reasons for male borderlines acting out aggressively, and therefore being mistaken for APD, and for female borderlines acting out in self-harming ways.
Male borderlines can be very violent and dangerous. A high percentage of stalkers have BPD. If anyone here has a disordered male partner who has very intense, short lived emotions and a tendency to rage and to threaten – you or himself with self harm- faced with real or imagined abandonment, you may want to read up on BPD in men.
Ya know, ive come to a conclusion, it doesn’t really matter which of the 3 they have,,all 3 of them are seriously messed up in the head and rarely if ever will admit something is wrong let alone go get help.
I am on another blog and the part I signed up for is for those who “stay” with BP partners and try to work it out, and I can tell you from weeks of reading and posting there, NOBODY is happy!!! I kept holding on to the idea that hey I found out whats wrong with her, now maybe we can make some progress, it only pissed her off further, there is no hope for these people unless they are not extreme and admit a problem and seek treatment to better themselves, anything short of that and you better run like a pit bull is chasing you.
It pains me to read these peoples comments on that blog, as they are truly trying to make it work only to be hurt over and over and realize they are banging their heads on a brick wall, they deserve better, they only want to love and be loved and these mentally ill people are incapable of giving it (at least most of the time) and most of the time they do seem to give it, its usually cause of an ulterior motive that serves them.
I have finally crossed the hump, I am done with my BP SP whatever she is, I no longer want to try, I want to work on me so I can work on my kids, and hopefully when the right one comes around I will have something to offer other than emotional baggage from this nightmare.
Good luck to all us.
This is from part of a daily email I get from Richard skerrit, I like his way of tackling and explaining these disorders.
” Narcissists have no such ability. They feign closeness, but as relationships develop, it becomes clear that the apparent closeness of the early relationship cannot be sustained. Narcissists are consumed by their fears of judgment by others, and once they chose a partner, they also fear judgment of their partner by others. Rather than loving us, they strive to hammer us into a model of perfection; a model which we never fit and which, truthfully, no one could achieve. Our private relationships become an endless series of failed attempts to placate their fears, interspersed with episodes of brutal attacks.”
This is how mine was,,she thought I was great while we dated, once moved in is when the nonsense began of her getting upset, almost like she was trying to mold me so that others could not judge me harshly which means she made a good pick in a partner. I remember a close friend of hers told me one day about 1 year or so in relationship that she “is very defensive over you” I did not know she was like that, in other words it sounded to me that he meant anytime someone said something that wasn’t awesome about me she got very defensive, however knowing what I know now it wasn’t me she was defending, it was her choice to be with me, cause if I had a flaw that means she made a poor choice in a partner/father in her eyes.
Now I know why nothing I did was ever good enough, I did the stay home dad roll, she hated it, I went back to work full time, she still complained saying I didn’t give her enough money (even though she always came up with the monthly figure and I agreed, only for 3 months later she would complain again) or she would say im not doing enough around the house, I would work full time and still do 75% of the house chores, and still none of it was good enough. If I dared do something with free time, like talk on the phone to friend or family, or play a video game, I got dirty looks, smartass comments, and eventually in arguments it would get thrown in my face like im just the worst person ever. If I didn’t jump and do something she wanted soon after she said it, she would become angry and tell me im lazy and then try to do it herself so later she could say she has to do everything cause I do nothing.
Im not sure how we are supposed to know if we meet another like this, they are nice /charming/give attention/ just like we know our spouses true selves but nobody out of the house can see anything wrong, so when we meet someone new how in the world will we see who they are before we fall for them??
Dave,
You asked several times how you will know if you meet someone else like your wife. They are always on their best behavior in the beginning. The answer to this is to break your co-dependency needs. Take all that time and energy you invested into her and now invest it in yourself. Take classes, join a men’s group, join a book club, take up a physical activity (dancing works for me) or whatever you interests you. Learn to meditate. Hit the gym. Make friends and observe your feelings around these people. But at the end of the day, go home alone and learn to center yourself and find peace. I would actually make it a point not to date anyone for a certain time period – at least a year. Learn to be on your own and get to a point where you don’t need someone. At that point, you will know yourself very well. In order to know someone else, you must first know yourself.
There is a reason you were attracted to her in the first place and you missed the red flags. You were probably blinded by some sort of emotional need. Fix those needs, and you won’t be a slave to them anymore.
I have had several attractions to men I’ve dated in the last several months. I turned down opportunities to be physically intimate with them, because I didn’t know them or their character well enough. It wasn’t easy. I was extremely attracted to them. One bolted when I told him I don’t do casual sex. (Good riddance). Another one….we’ll see. I did kiss them, and that did stir up a lot of feelings and needs. But I was able to step back and wait to see if they were the real deal. Most people don’t do this. They just jump right in, led by their hormones, only to find out a few months down the line that the other person is not who they advertised. Borderlines and psychopaths aside, EVERYONE has a shadow side. And you typically don’t see that side till you’ve known them for several months. EVERYONE is on their best behavior when you first start dating. And when you’re in the honeymoon stage, everything is milk and honey. If you get involved too soon, you will become bonded with that person. Then it will be really confusing and painful when they start showing poor character traits. So just take it easy and wait. Things will turn out as they are meant to.
hey star,
you said on their best behavior, but isn’t everyone on best behavior when first dating? you are right though I need to focus on me, my friend is going through a divorce and I am convinced his wife was disordered as well, and he immediately starting seeing multiple women looking for the right one to kill the pain, the one he started falling for he though was totally different from his wife,,WRONG, she was younger,, taller, black (wife was white) better in bed (from what he said) however,,,,,,her mother and sister both crazy, and so was she, and she had violent tendencies, and she was lying about sleeping with her babies father, I tried to tell him to get away from her and he didn’t listen for 2 months, he started to actually like her, but he finally seen the red flags and ran, (thank God)
I know what my need was star, I lost my fiancé back in 2001, she took my child and married some other guy, it devastated me, I was empty for 3 years, I slept with probly 5 women during that time and I just didn’t feel anything with them, when I met the SP/BP something was there, I fell for her quickly and its like she removed all the pain I had and I was happy and fealt like me again, that right there was my problem. I need to be happy first and do me, THEN find someone who can add to the happiness, not completely determine it for me.
thanks for making me think about that.
Dave you are exactly right. EVERYONE is on their best behavior early on in any relationship. You don’t start seeing their flaws for several months. But if you sleep with them too soon, you will get attached and then it’s hard to be objective. At least it is true for woman and for some men, too. Men seem to be able to detach their hearts from their sexuality, which makes it easier for them to have friends with benefits situations. But the sensitive men I know who do this say it is not fulfilling for them. And it does not help them forget about their exes. Also, it is a cause for a lot of drama if the woman gets attached to you but you not to her. In the rare case that you might meet someone special while on the rebound, you will once again have leaped into another relationship without healing. The prognosis for this is not good. Take some time to heal. You are never wasting or losing time by investing your energy into yourself, getting to know yourself, becoming stronger, more self-aware, and self-sufficient. Examine your childhood patterns that may have predisposed you to create this situation in the first place. Heal those patterns. This all takes time and a lot of self-reflection. And this is AFTER you have broken the addiction to your ex.
You know, even though the stories are different, we all have so much in common, Dave. We all got into relationships before we really were able to love ourselves completely and be happy by ourselves. I think most people do this, and that’s why the divorce rate is so high. We get involved or even married, hoping the other person will somehow fulfill us. But the truth is we need to be able to fulfill ourselves. It has taken me 53 years to learn this. When people on this site told me this 5 years ago, I didn’t believe it. I thought I would actually have to move out of the country to find a man. Now I see that in order to find the right person, I have to BE the right person. BEING the right person for myself is the priority. Everything else is the icing on the cake.
I believe that to see where we are on this path, we only need to look at the types of people we are drawn to. If we keep getting drawn to emotionally unavailable types, it is a reflection of our relationship with ourselves – we are in some ways emotionally unavailable, too. It’s not a pretty reality, but it’s true.
So many awful behaviors to describe the spath types.
I have flash backs about some really scary fights and the sadness I had while I was with him, that I hate right now!
How could I white-wash it with him for so long and WHY!?! I want to believe that the flash backs will stop eventually and I can stop having to look at them so often. We’ll see I guess.
Dr Becker’s explanation of Differentiating..THEM, makes me realize that I was caught up with a man who categorically has the traits of ALL types.
I’m done.
I have the answer I was hoping to find when I read Dr Becker’s post.
–HE IS ALL OF THEM—
NOW DO I UNDERSTAND MY EX?!!
NO. but,
YES 🙁
….
One paragraph from Dr Becker has helped me want to stop trying to figure out which one of those disordered people my ex is once and for all, because I think I was stuck on that effort for some dumb reason, and I can’t put my finger on why it matters to me which one and it’s messing me up by trying to.
he wrote:
“The borderline can be callous and cruel, as can the narcissist and sociopath. Hmmm. When we are dealing with a callous, cruel individual whose aim is to BE DESTRUCTIVE (at least in the moment), with no compunction or remorse, but only contempt and hate for the object of his rage, then at least, for the moment, it may be somewhat immaterial which personality disorder we’re dealing with.”
Any questions Jenni!!!!?
NO
~~~~
Thank you Dr Becker, maybe I can move on to the “WHY” I allowed his abuse to go on so long in the first place, instead of asking myself ‘WHAT is HE?’
Time, Peace,
Jenni Marie
Jenni,
same here, I am finally stopping with the why her blah blah blah,,and looking at why did I stay.
10 years down the tube, other than my kids, nothing positive came out of this and I could have stopped it many years ago.
I think I was afraid to feel like I did after my finace took off with my kid, and losing another family, so I just put up with about everything to keep it together. We have to go be happy on our own, then find someone to add to it,,besides if we don’t get past this and meet the right one it will be unfair as they will have to deal with all our baggage that we have not gotten over yet and will probly leave us, hurting us even more.
Dave…
“10 years down the tube, other than my kids, nothing positive came out of this and I could have stopped it many years ago.”
While it may feel that way right now, there really is something to be learned from these situations. You will now learn about you; about why you stayed; why you allowed someone to treat you with such disrespect.
The healing process takes time, sometimes a lot of time. But know that this is a life lesson in disguise. Know that you are a good person and never lose sight of that.
It’s not easy, but you can get through this. I wish you well in your healing….
carolann
Jenni, you asked such an excellent question of why you white-washed things with him for so long. As you start to relax and break the addiction, you will be able to answer those questions, and this will help you to grow and heal. Questions that begin with “Why did I……” or “Why didn’t I……” are excellent questions. They are about you and your motivations, your own failures to protect yourself, to set boundaries, or to respond appropriately to red flags. The healing is always about you – not about him. When you are able to focus your energy on yourself and delve into these questions, rather than focus on his behaviors, your healing process will have begun. In many ways, for me, the process has been like going through a tunnel where I finally started seeing the light at the end. Physically, it felt like going deeper and deeper into a pit in my stomach, a hole in my center that made me feel empty and unworthy. In pulling out all of the feelings – the shame and unworthiness, fear of rejection, and even the repressed longings, I started completely loving and accepting myself with the good and bad. I know I will not perpetuate the patterns of my past relationships because I am a different person now. I vibrate at a higher frequency. I am not drawn to lowlifes who want to use me for sex (though many are still drawn to me); or needy men who want instant intimacy. I am drawn to people with emotional and spiritual depth who are not slaves to their addictions, people who are truly interesting and have something to offer to me. Why am I drawn to these people? Because this is a reflection of who I’m becoming and who I want to be. I don’t want anyone in my life who will drag me down or be a liability. I would rather spend time alone than to be with these types.
Keep onward, Jenni – you are doing so well. You are asking the right questions and are following (with no-contact) a predictable path to recovery. 🙂
Jenni,
NC works. It sucks. It’s really hard. I’m not happy, but I’m not crying as much when the sad thoughts come. I’m trying to remind myself that I was sad WITH HIM, so being sad WITHOUT HIM is way better because now he won’t get the chance to ADD to the sadness”
That is what im going through now, but friends and family could not figure out why, I like to vent so I would call several people telling them what she said or did, and some of my family witnessed some of these things and all they ever did was keep saying “why do you put up with that, I would leave her sorry ass” They didn’t understand the manipulation going on and the fact I was hanging on to what I “thought” was my family (well my kids are, but the rest was a mirage)
I was at the point where I was calling people at least twice a week complaining, they finally said we know your miserable down here when you two are split up but your miserable up there with her too. Even trying to watch my words at times it would still upset her, I couldn’t do things I enjoyed cause she would ruin them and pick fights so I had to hide them and even then she accused, she was a workaholic from morning till bedtime she wouldn’t sit still and expected me to do the same and it pissed her off when I didn’t, when I did she would act fairly happy but only for that day, nothing was ever good enough, always had to be more, when I would put my foot down look out!!!! Now im pathetic loser, and she takes care of me, im less of a man, I don’t care about her or my kids, she thinks I want to kill her (she has literally said that to me 2-3 times) If she seen me packing my car to leave she would calmly talk me down only for 1-2 months later rage on me and throw me out. (its as if she couldn’t fathom me actually leaving her) that would make her look wrong and faulty and heaven forbid a disordered person seems at fault or have a flaw.
keep up the NC, and move, just be careful he doesn’t follow you, I would check everywhere I could the day you move so your sure hes not hiding somewhere, or any other time you go to the new place for that matter.
Good luck to you, be cautious.
Dave,
He showed up at my old place on feb 1 as I was walking out to leave and take the moving truck back. I hustled my butt into the truck and as
I got in the truck and shut and locked the door he said “I had a feeling you were moving”. I drove off.
Halfway back to the truck rental place, I saw him in my rearview two cars behind me. I made a left and he kept going straight.
He came back to the old place about an hour later. I saw him through the blinds. I had just got home. He pulled in and then pulled right out of the parking lot stall on the other side of my patio gate as if he suddenly changed his mind about being here.
He didn’t come back all night and I thought he probably realized that he would be wasting his time trying to trick me again.
I was wrong. again.
Sunday Feb 2nd I get in my car and look all around for signs of him anywhere. I don’t see him, so I head over to the new place. I am there for about 3 hours or so and when I came out to my car, there was a note stuck to my windshield wiper from him. He found me. The sob found me.
The only thing I can think of is that he must have used someone else’s car that I didn’t recognize and followed me over there, or he was checking all the places that I had casually mentioned months and months ago about their for rent sign. I don’t know.
I thought I was so careful to look for him and not get trailed over there, but I am not as smart as I needed to be.
I don’t know if I will post anything for a while. Being cautious is a good idea, but it doesn’t look like it works to keep us hidden from THEM.
I’m afraid that if I post anything, it will only sound like a mini-drama of the week and that doesn’t help anyone including me.
Good luck to you also. Children repeat things, so I would like to suggest that you do not say anything negative about their mother in front of them and your contact with HER is as little contact as possible so you can see your children. Keep a journal and keep any and all emails, texts, vm’s while it’s fresh in your mind, right after “IT” happens, in case you need to sort out what is happening later on with someone who needs to know like the IRS.
Peace
Jenni
Jenni, I haven’t time today to read your entire post but to answer your question – yes. They will do ANYTHING to manipulate you, and they have no boundaries. They will even commit suicide as a final F*ck you. And many will threaten suicide. Don’t be manipulated by it. It’s not your fault they are upset because their game was ended when you took control of your own life.
When I turned mine in to the army, his platoon sergeant called me a few weeks later to let me know he was on suicide watch. She asked if I still wanted to go through with the sworn statement. I did. He got convicted of fraud and adultery. I’m sure he is out playing someone else now – maybe the prison guards for all I know.
Stay the course of NC. You don’t need to know what he’s up to, his health problems, etc. Not your worry anymore.
BTW, the platoon sergeant herself had once been played by a sociopath. She knew what he was and she was very supportive of me. Others here are not so lucky. Stay the course.
oh and star,
I have no plans of dating right now, my friend keeps trying to get me laid and what not, im just not into it, I don’t want a sex buddy, and right now I would feel akward being with another woman after 10 years of only one, im too used to her, I swear I would feel like I was cheating, I need more time, I still love her. I know men usually can move on to another woman easy, ive seen women do the same too, but now I know why some women find it difficult after so long with the same man, it just doesn’t feel right.
lol just found out she filed a CPO on me, no idea what she stated the reason was as I wont find out till im served, and I bet money she included the kids in it.
I thought when you did this and lifted it quickly it was harder to do it again? Funny thing is ive not been in the house for 2 months, and the only physical contact we have had was when I got my kids for 2 days during Christmas, that was a month ago and we barely exchanged more than a sentence.
Ironic this happens right after I told her I was reporting her for welfare fraud huh? Some of you agreed with that some didn’t, I for one feel that if nothing is done it leaves her able to do it again and I will feel responsible because I could have done something to stop it, if I can do anything to keep her from cheating or ruining someone elses life then I will do my best, but that’s just my opinion.
As I mentioned before, I am a big advocate for justice, especially when it concerns where my tax money is going. There are a lot of welfare recipients who know how to work the system, and it’s very frustrating for me.
But…….I stand by my statement from before. If you turn her in, this puts the attention on her and not on you where your focus belongs. Also, it is partly motivated by revenge, which can bring some bad karma back to you. Finally, just as you mentioned the CPO, she can retaliate, which perpetuates the drama. I think if her fraud were directly hurting you or the kids, you wouldn’t have a choice but to fight. But if not, I would let it go for the time being and focus your energy on yourself. You may have to learn how to meditate. There are actual techniques for pulling back your energy and grounding yourself. You are very very focused on her IMO and not enough on you.
Her bad deeds will eventually come back to her, without you having to do anything at all. But give it a few months to detach from her, and then see if you still want to turn her in.
One of the realities of relationships is that the person who is the least invested has the most power. I’ve seen this over and over when I get very invested in a guy but he’s out there playing the field. You can uninvest yourself with her. Force yourself to get into other things and get your mind off her. Just make the decision to do it. Eventually, your emotions will follow, Dave. You can only really focus on one thing at a time. If you are completely absorbed into something else, you won’t be thinking about her. You need to get your power back.
Thank you carolann for the comment,
Star,,its too late, I called on weds, she would not have known that, that quick, she filed the same day, she did it cause I told her Monday I would. I have no idea what grounds she based it on, I have not threatened her, and haven’t seen her in over a month. I can contest it, however ill leave it alone long as it doesn’t include the kids, im kinda happy she did it,,its more incentive for no contact.
You are right, yes part of me did it for revenge for wrecking my life and betraying me, yes. But I always had a problem with this as I caught her twice and chewed her out and told her I wanted no part of it, and I don’t want her to continue it. If the kids are involved ill dispute the CPO and we will move forward with Child support and visitation, just will have to be a middle man when I get the kids so I wont be around her. I WILL in court bring up the email I sent telling her I was gonna report her and how she filed on me 2 days later, that has to look funny to a judge right?
I also have witnesses who seen the scratches and bruises on me from our fight the night I left.
Funny thing and I didn’t know this (probly still wouldn’t have done it) but I was told I should have called the cops that night and had her arrested, filed a CPO on her and she wouldn’t have been able to come back to her own house lol,,,however even if I knew that 2 months ago I wouldn’t have done it, I just wanted my paycheck for the week from the company so I could leave before something worse happened.
Dave, you are STILL giving your power away to her. Your marriage reminds me of War of the Roses. Have you ever seen that movie?
Life greatly improves when you can take responsibility for your own life and your own choices. She didn’t wreck your life. You handed her the reigns to your happiness. You allowed her to abuse you for 10 years. You chose to go back to her after she physically and emotionally abused you. You returned to her repeatedly after she kicked you out. YOU made these choices. You see what she is now. You can make a different choice. You can be a different person – one who is much better than her. You could tell yourself that she took 10 years of your life, so you’re not going to give her one more minute.
What kinds of fun and creative things did you do before you met her? Did you have a job you enjoyed? Hobbies? Interests? Find them again. If not, then this is where you need to start. Your life cannot be all about her and how you are going to get even with her.
Star,
Its hard but I agree, it doesn’t excuse their actions, but ultimately yes WE allowed this to continue,,WE ALL could have left after 1-2 times of the nonsense and we CHOSE to stay and put up with it, that is hard to swallow but its the truth.
Yes ive seen war of the roses, good movie.
I loved to fish, after we met I fished quite often, but the last 4 years I have fished maybe 2-3 times when I used to fish at least 10 times a year, I lost a lot of motivation dealing with her. When it warms up here in ohio, I will def do some fishing again, its peaceful, and I like to catch and eat my fish too. I like video games and couldn’t play them much with her cause she hated them and made me feel bad for messing with them, I know they aren’t really constructive, but its something I enjoy to do with my time occasionally.
I just wish I could fast forward my life by a year and be through this and hopefully happy by myself so I could meet the right one and have a normal relationship, then again that’s 1 less year of life lol.
I still am kinda happy she filed this,,now its less chance for contact, however when she filed it in 2007-08, I never contacted for almost 3 months, she wound up calling me and lifting the order, I most def will not do that again!!!
Dave, you just found out why you don’t lay all your cards on the table in front of a sociopath. You warned her in advance you were going to do something to harm her and she went on the attack. This is typical sociopathic behavior. The worst part is that they will often hurt us more than we can ever hurt them, because WE have personal boundaries that we don’t cross. A sociopath has no boundaries, and no internal braking system, and there is very little they won’t do. There are no depths of depravity that are too deep.
Don’t tell these people ANYTHING, and especially don’t tell them that you’re going to do something they will see as a threat to their survival. You’ll find out right quick just how far they will go.
people are telling me to contact her bout the taxes,,first off she has a CPO on me now, so I don’t dare do that, she will have me arrested. Second she lied on my 1099, now if I contact her and say hey I need the correct numbers this is wrong, why would she give them to me? I have decided not to say anything to anybody that she knows about me contacting the IRS, she will find out when her business gets audited. I have to report this, im not taking any chances that they find out this is the wrong income then I turned it in as truth anyway, for all I know she may be setting me up to turn this in then she will change it claiming she made a mistake.
I think she is doing it to avoid the wefare fraud by claiming I made less than I did and hoping that ill turn it in because since its less, then ill owe less in back taxes, no way am I risking this or playing her game.
onmyown, I have far too many times opened my mouth to her when I should have either never said anything ever, or kept quiet till I had more info, this will not happen anymore as she will only take advantage or view it as an attack and come after me.
good advice though ty
oh my, star
I just got my 1099 from her and she is lying on it about my wages, I worked that company for 8 months and shes stating I only made 1233.00 dollars LOL,,,i have to report this, if I turn this in and the IRS finds out, they will get me for fraud too cause they will say I obiviously knew I made more than that. Wow now she gonna have welfare and IRS down her throat.
Dave, oh my – yes sounds like you do have to report it. Best of luck with all of that. It stresses me out just to read about it – I cannot imagine what it is like to live it.
If you can just live in the present moment, the future will get here soon enough. 🙂
You will get through this!
And yes, there’s a difference between blame and responsibility. It is NEVER the victim’s fault that someone abuses them. No one has the right to abuse another. But the choices we make in our lives are ultimately our responsibility. We need to own these choices no matter how hard it is to do. We all make mistakes – some of enormous magnitude. But the sign of character is whether we can learn from it and move on. And even turn it into something positive. When we say, “Yes, I chose to do that,” it can help greatly reduce the anger and feeling like a victim.
Well said Stargazer!!! the ownership of what made us vulnerable and then the healing from those issues is the one defense we have from getting targeted again.
WE have traits that are in many ways as common with each other that allow easy victimization. Sandra Brown talks at length about some of those. Recovery for us always seems to involve finding our own individual voice and personhood….We as a bunch seem to be fairly kind nice good people!!! Our best defense is to keep far from the wickedness we encountered and find and keep our innate goodness.
I am bpd and I have a hard time knowing what i am. At times i think this article is correct and that im a good person with attachment problems. Other times i think im some type of COVERT sociopath that manipulates SUBCONSCIOUSLY. Whenever i behave well (usually with escorting clients ) i can be very charming, kind and affectionate. In the moment it feels real, but maybe im like an actress that really throws herself into the role and fool myself that im being genuine in the moment. I am intelligent, interesting, beautiful ofcourse. I can win over wealthy men,doctors, psychologists etc. But deep down i hate them and i hate people, especially men. I know that men are untrustworthy whores and most “friends ” are fair weather at best. A selfish evil humanity. This becomes even more evident in countries where humans have scarce resources. It becomes an animalistic Darwinian hellhole. Alas,i have a contempt for humans. Whenever my clients tell me that im so sweet and wonderful i think to myself ” idiot! You believe anything an escort tells you and im laughing all the way to the bank! ” yet when im nice i convince even myself that its genuine. Im still not sure what it is. I will continue to use men to support my lifestyle. I see no reason to go work or get a permanent man pet. I see nothing wrong with what im doing, men have always been whores anyway. I think deep down i do lean towards sociopathy but its covert rather than full blown.
Lamujer, some questions for you:
– What is ‘bpd’?
– Are you kind to animals?
– Are you cruel to animals?
– How about children, or elderly people? Do you hate them as well?
– Do you have a specific reason to think men are whores, such as a father who had affairs or took advantage of you, or of women in general?
– How do you feel about your mother?
Your answers will be enlightening to yourself as well as others. Thank you.
Borderline personality disorder. i am kind to animals for short spurts. After that i am irritated by their noise and constant need for attention. I don’t see why people get attached to pets. They bore me. I tried to have a pet once and the dog was too yappy and peeing all over my carpet. I couldn’t wait for the next day so i dropped it off in a forested area where i wouldn’t be seen. Children and elderly same thing. I can tolerate them but i don’t want one.they annoy me. I did have children when i was young who were autistic. I ended up with a mental breakdown from the stress and had to give them up. Since then i decided that having children isn’t worth the trouble. To me its very obvious how men are. Theyll say anything to get sex. They are walking dildos for the most part. My mother was weak and submissive to a father that abused me.
Is there a particular reason you lump all men in this category?
Do you believe that women can be users and abusers also?
I can understand the pets and children thing, for some people its just not their thing.
I went through 10 years of abuse from a sociopathic woman, however i dont lump all women into her categories, if i did i would be saying all women are lying cheating goldiggers that play games. My ex was the one that used sex against me, as everytime she did something wrong and i got upset she would just hop in the shower with me to make me forget all about what she did. I know there are decent women out there, and there are decent men too.
Beware the Borderline, my son!
The tongue that bites, the spiteful wrath!
Beware the Narcissist, and shun
The frumious Psychopath!
And as in uffish thought he stood
He soon was driven to conclude
That labels can be just a game:
The Borderline, siren of ill fame
Is oft a Psychopathic dame
Disguised with altered name.