Man, it’s not easy out there. Your partner clearly has a major personality disturbance, but sometimes separating borderline, narcissistic and sociopathic behavior can be hard. Real tough. Especially when there are spill-over behaviors, cross-contaminating behaviors and attitudes (as there often are) that further muddy the diagnostic waters.
Let’s look at rage, for instance. Rage is a major marker of the borderline and narcissistic personality. Sociopaths, being essentially malignant, high-end narcissists, like any full-blown narcissist, are also capable of frightful, bullying, abusive rages.
The borderline’s rage, much like the narcissist’s, tends to be elicted by disappoinment. And it’s not always “abandonment”-related. When the borderline, much like the narcissist, feels uncatered to, neglected or invalidated, WATCH OUT!!!!
The “tsunami” will be coming in a gigantic, overwhelming, RATIONALIZED WAVE. That wave will crash on you with shocking, destructive force, threatening to take your legs out from under you.
The sociopath’s rage is also elicited, commonly, by the frustration of his needs, demands, expectations. When that’s not the case, he may be salivating for some excitement, perhaps to escape the accumulating tension of his boredom; and so he may want a good dust-up to entertain himself: Unleashing his rage in a bullying assault may do the trick.
Remorse for the impact and damage of their rages is often missing in all three cases. Incredible, really INCREDIBLE rationalization, plus the astounding absence of self-reflection and accountability, is commonly missing as well.
The borderline feels as justified in his raging as the narcissist. His raging is pure narcissism being acted-out in the moment. The borderline, it is true, may later plead for forgiveness, but this is not always the case. Some borderlines will not pursue you at all after they’ve degraded you in a rage.
And not to confuse matters, but some narcissists and sociopaths will lobby for your forgiveness and amnesty after abusive displays in sometimes florid gestures of contrition.
The borderline and narcissist are both notorious vacillators along the idealizing-devaluing continuum. They are both “splitters” in the sense of perceiving others in rigidly black and white ways. When in their good graces, you are fantastic; their greatest luck and good fortune was to have met you; but disappoint them, and you are likely, suddenly, abruptly, to qualify as the worst, most despicable person they ever had the misfortune to cross paths with.
Sociopaths, in this sense, may be so disconnected, so pathologically disengaged from, and indifferent to, the emotional lives of others that, paradoxically, they may bring less of this particular kind of “splitting” drama to the table than borderlines and the typical narcissist.
This isn’t to suggest that sociopaths don’t “act out” in an outrageous variety of destructive ways. They can, and do.
And devaluation and contempt of others deeply, definingly characterizes the sociopath’s perspective; it’s just that the sociopath may actually exercise, and experience, his twisted emotional disconnection from others with sometimes (but not always!) less volatility than your typical borderline or narcissist. He may sometimes be more predictably, continuously indifferent, contemptuous and emotionally uninvested in others than his borderline or narcissistic counterpart.
The borderline can be callous and cruel, as can the narcissist and sociopath. Hmmm. When we are dealing with a callous, cruel individual whose aim is to BE DESTRUCTIVE (at least in the moment), with no compunction or remorse, but only contempt and hate for the object of his rage, then at least, for the moment, it may be somewhat immaterial which personality disorder we’re dealing with.
We may know later, but at the time, what difference does it really make? The individual’s present intent is clear—to hurt, destroy, inflict pain (in the borderline’s case, perhaps to discharge his pain by inflicting pain). But the experience on the other end, on your end, may be largely the same. You will feel variously abused, humiliated, threatened, degraded.
As noted, all three personality types may (or may not) later show contrition, thus contrition doesn’t accurately distinguish them. Plus, gauging the sincerity of an apology, its depth, is tough business. So again, this isn’t easy. Who are we dealing with? And does it even, always, matter?
I might add this rather vague, but possibly valid, observation: When borderlines aren’t “borderlining,” they are often really good and good-hearted individuals. They are often generous, authentic, sensitive and giving individuals. This is obviously a generalization. There are “borderlines” who, even when they aren’t raging, may be self-centered, jerky individuals, unpleasant and messed up in a million other ways. Still, many borderlines when they’re functioning above their “rage modes” are genuinely engaged, empathic, loving individuals.
You can not say this about the sociopath. This doesn’t mean the sociopath can’t “put this on.” But the sociopath, even when he isn’t obviously “sociopathing,” is always who he is at bottom: a cold, empty, empathically deficient, transgressive-minded individual who, at best, covers up his core contempt of others’ dignity and boundaries.
Not so with borderline personalities.
And narcissists who aren’t full-blown, those who retain a capacity to reflect on their narcissism (as some do) and its impact on those around them–which is tantamount to saying they retain a capacity (in less self-centered states of mind) to reflect on their impact on others with some degree of empathy–these narcissists, too, may be capable of authentic generosity, engagement and compassion, which makes them less incorrigible (and perhaps thus even more confusing) than the sociopath who, if he may sometimes present as the more stable, consistent personality, is clearly the most pathological of them all.
This article is intended to introduce the complicated challenge of differientating these volatile, destructive personalities; it is the first of several I intend to write.
(This article was copyrighted © 2012 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of the male gender pronoun was strictly for convenience’s sake and not to imply that females aren’t capable of the attitudes and behaviors discussed.)
Hi Witty ~ Are you feeling better?
I thought you knew my daughter was adopted. As an infant, she spent 2 months with her 14 year old bio mom then she was removed by DCF. Even during that time, the mom’s sister took the baby and went to another state for awhile.
She was then placed in a foster home for a year. From what I observed it was a good foster home, with an older woman as the foster mom. She was there for a year, because the bio mom would not give the name of the bio father, so in order to get permanent custody, DCF had to advertise for the father then wait a certain period of time. We knew of our daughter for 8 of the 12 months she was there, but no placement could even take place until the paperwork cleared the court.
I might add that because of this and similar, stupid rules and regulations we ran into when adopting our son, we fought to change the way things were done. We were able to have “foster/adopt” families who now take placements where permanent custody of the child is somewhere in his future. This has helped cut down on moving children to home after home, interrupting the bonding. So simple really. Back then, foster parents were NOT allowed to adopt their foster child. There you have your experts!!!!
I have always told both kids that if and when they were interested in finding their bio parents I would support them 100%. My daughter however, went behind my back and paid someone $500 to track her bio mom down. I could have given her the information for free….. What she found was a woman who clearly could care less, not in a negative, I don’t want you in my life sort of way – but in a yea, I thought you might look me up someday, big deal. She even has her birthday wrong, and tries to convince my daughter that the birth certificate is wrong and her birthday is really what she thinks it is. She also told her all kinds of lies about the two short months that she had her, including the fact that she sold her to very rich people so she could have a wonderful life – haaaaa She has two boys that she kept – they are both in jail. She suddenly remembered who the bio father was and my daughter met him, he has two girls, also in and out of trouble. He is a flaming alcoholic and told my daughter he was an American Indian – he is not. He also asked my daughter to come and take care of him because he was ill. haaaaa
A real pot of genetic slime.
My Grand’s paternal grandmother tells me that her husband, Grand’s paternal grandfather (now deceased) was adopted. Story sounds similar to your husbands. The husband was also an alcoholic.
Poor Grand, I don’t like to think about his chances. I just keep loving him.
PS – My adopted son is 30 years old now, is the light of my life and tells me he doesn’t care about looking up his bio parents, he has enough trouble taking care of us. lol
Milo and Witty,
That’s why I feel strongly that the dysfunction is a combination of genetics and neglect/abuse/environment.
A researcher that I talked to when I lived in Little Rock did an experiment with dogs (which you can get a new generation in a year) and he took a litter of bird dogs and bred the most aggressive to the most aggressive and the most non aggressive to the most non aggressive and he had been doign this for 20 years in the mid 80s when I talked to him, and he had dogs that were like pit bulls on one end and ones that belly crawled on the other end. All treated the same.
In many generations less than 20 I culled out the aggressive members of my cow herd…though the breed itself is rather docile..some few members were not. I culled those members out and kept the more docile ones and by the time I sold the big herd there weren’t any that weren’t very docile.
I do know that you can take dogs and chain them up and let kids taunt them, frustrate them and you can make some bad ass dogs out of what would normally be pretty docile dogs, and if you start out with a pit bull and do that, you can end up with a killer if he gets loose.
Back when my “frenemies” still lived here they had dogs that were half pit/half boxer and they were mostly kept chained except when they were in their RV. He would (against my orders) let his dog roam some though and I opened my door a couple of times to let my little Bud dog out to pee and that dog was standing there just WAITING for Bud to come out. Bud was only 18 pounds but would have been stupid and brave enough to attack the pit/boxer mix that was in HIS front yard. I kept telling the guy to keep his dog up, finally I informed him that the next time I opened my door and the dog was there he was going to get shot. (the dog) Knowing I didn’t jest about that kind of thing he kept his dog up after that. But then decided how he was going to build this huge pen for his dogs, and that was about the time I decided it was time for them to GO.
You know I think not only are there predators in the human race, but there are the “victims” as well, and we (victims) are programmed by a combination of genetics and environment to be the victims, while they are programmed by genes and environment to be the predators, just like the dogs that the researcher at the VA in Little Rock bred…all from the same genetic stock, but still….either victims or aggressors.
Milo, we posted over each other.
Yea, a great genetic base from which to build a life. that kind of genetic stew has been responsible for the “lower end” of society since history began, spawning crime, drugs and alcohol, violence etcetra. Now, though, it is politically correct to believe that throwing money and social workers at these problems will make things better. LOL ROTFLMAO snark snarf barf choke! Unfortunately, I think these people reproduce more often than the more responsible members of society do. The “Jerry springer” folks who don’t know who the father of their child is without a DNA test are not going to raise this child to value honesty and education. All of Donna’s high school education isn’t going to reach these young girls who will be the future mothers of these children, and any young man who is more or less normal isn’t going to turn down a chance at sex with these future mothers…and especially the psychopathic ones.
Hopefully though, the young girls and guys who are “normal” to “semi” normal will hear and at least keep from breeding more psychopaths. That at least is a START.
Milo
I a feeling better day by day. Thanks for asking 🙂
I did not know your daughter was adopted. If you mentioned it at some point I must have missed that info in the post.
My son was also missing in action recently. He usually goes for about a week at a time. He is young though….I imagine as he gets older he might go for longer periods of time.
When it comes to him I guess you could say that I have detached from him and his situation in some ways but not in other ways….When there is “no news”. I can go along pretty well…..
No news is good news.
But when I hear that he is “missing in action” I have to say that every time the phone rings or I hear a distant police siren it triggers me…..And I start to worry. My anxiety kicks in and I almost feel like he still lives here at home. That same feeling of doom and gloom kind of settles in. Like what next? Waiting for the other shoe to fall.
I think it is wise to just keep on loving Grand as you always have. And not think about the rest. Focus on the present so that you may enjoy your moments with him. He sounds like a very loveable little boy 🙂
Thank you, Kim Frederick!
I certainly hope that you are correct about Narcissistic Victim Syndrome, because I am really going through it right now. Sometimes, I think I’m losing my mind.
It’s been a really long time since I’ve commented here, but do often read the great articles.
This one, and the one about “The Red Flags of Dysfunction” are really speaking, no shouting, to me right now.
I believe my mother is a sociopath. Although, she could be a narcissist. No matter, the effect is the same. She has been particularly good at Triangulation lately, since I’ve had little to no contact with her and her husband for the last three years.
Three months ago, I asked my husband to move out…And, he did. He has Passive Aggressive Personality Disorder.
Each time I have to interact with him, I get angry and say things I wish I hadn’t. Then I have waves of shame, guilt, sadness, anxiety, loneliness and…
I’m the one “screaming obscenities from the roof” while he remains calm and collected. Same goes for my mother. I’ve since learned just not to engage at all with her.
With my husband, it’s not possible at this time. Plus, I’m still grieving the breakup of the marriage. My son is away at college and we have no other friendly, extended family.
Thank you for reminding me that we can be driven crazy by family members who appear ‘all together’ in the community.
I’m printing out the “new rules” to keep with me. I’m googling NVS!
After all these years battling with the PA, and dear mother the Spath, I’ve messed up my own psyche.
Therapy is helping! One of the things that really works for a sensitive person like me (and may be something others may want to look into) is EMDR therapy. It really can work miraculously with the right therapist. It is mostly used with cognitive therapy too.
Thank you, too, to “the sisterhood.” You are spot on about being middle-aged and not being able to remain in denial anymore. I remember hearing that our bodies will first whisper that there is a problem, then it will get louder. If we don’t listen, really significant physical and emotional problems will result. I think it was Oprah.
I had in my mind that I had married the perfect man. For twenty-five years I tried to make it work, even though I felt like a single mom most of the time. Well, okay, a single mom with one small child and one fully grown man/child.
I could not wake up to this truth until after my son left for college. Because my first child died at four months (SIDS) when I was twenty, I could not bear the loss of my new family sixteen years later. I had to stay and raise a good child in a safe environment–with two parents. And, things were good for awhile. The thing I learned was that how a person behaves in public can be alarmingly different in private.
It’s even possible that my husband is a sociopath. He’s been in therapy (sometimes twice a week) for two years and seems to be getting worse. Or, is it that I’m just fed up?
Anyway, thank you for this place where we can vent and learn and support each other. You are all so brave.
Hugs to all.
Dear Suzie,
I don’t know what your husband is but I do know that it’s now about you and finding what is right for you. Zero tolerance for abuse from anyone.
Your statement from Oprah was really wise. We have to listen to our inner voice or the unhealthy things in our lives come out as unhealty things in our bodies.
I hope that you find peace with your decision and you’ll know that you are worthy and deserve to be treated with respect. You deserve better than being in a marriage where you’re invisible.
Dear Suzie,
I’m glad the article resonated with you…I know how it feels because I WAS/AM there as well…it doesn’t take much to push me over the edge into crazy again…but most of the time I’m fairly sane now…but I’ve realized that I have to be careful and pace myself in order to keep my level…
Glad you are still reading and lurking, but glad too that you posted today! Keep up the work. I used EMDR and it helped me a lot as well with being crazy as well as the PTSD symptoms.
Dear Kim, thank you so much for mentioning NVS. It put all into perspective! The puzzle with all the different strange parts fits now very neatly. THANKS!!!
I wasn’t able to do EMDR unfortunately. I’m so broken, I couldn’t even concentrate on the trauma and follow the lights at the same time 🙂
Wow…..so much discussion on this and a LOT of information to process. I don’t know what all of the anacronyms represent, but The Narcissistic Victim Syndrome resonates.
It all sort of fits in with Stockholm Syndrome, from my perspective. The victims who have a stronger sense of survival eventually sort it out – I suppose. Then, in retrospect, they can clearly see how they were steamrolled.
Hopeforjoy – it has been a LONG time since I’ve “seen” you! So glad you’re here! 😀
Brightest blessings