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Divorce and marital misconduct

Editor’s note: The following article, written by Laura Johnson, is reproduced from SmartDivorce.com. It offers tips that may help people who are divorcing a sociopath.

Even though your state may be a no-fault divorce state, it doesn’t mean that you or your spouse won’t have to answer in some way for any misbehavior during the marriage. It’s what divorce lawyers and courts refer to as marital misconduct and, in certain states, can affect the outcome of the division of property, an award of spousal support, or an award of attorney’s fees for the victim-spouse.

The legal definition of marital misconduct is any conduct that undermines the marital relationship. It becomes a factor in a divorce when the offender-spouse’s behavior forces the victim-spouse to assume extra burdens in the marriage. It isn’t meant to punish the offender-spouse or award him or her an inadequate amount of property or income, but to fairly compensate the victim-spouse.

The rationale behind this theory is that the victim-spouse is compelled to contribute more to the marriage because of the offender-spouse’s misconduct, therefore he or she is entitled to have the offender-spouse’s behavior taken into consideration when property or income are divided. Marital misconduct can be disregarded if both spouses are guilty of marital misconduct. In some states, marital misconduct is specifically disregarded as a matter of law.

In those states where misconduct is a factor, there are several broad categories of behavior that might be classified as marital misconduct. They are:

  • habitual drunkenness or addiction,
  • adultery,
  • domestic violence,
  • cruel and abusive behavior, or
  • economic fault.

Once the offender-spouse’s behavior has reached the level of marital misconduct, it is the court’s responsibility to determine just how much weight to give to it in each specific situation. Some of the considerations the court looks at when deciding this issue are:

  • the length of the marriage,
  • the character of the misconduct,
  • the time period during the marriage when the misconduct occurred, and
  • the frequency of the conduct and whether it was continual.

Certain types of marital misconduct may have more of an impact upon a court’s decision-making than others. For example, cruelty or domestic violence might not be a relevant or appropriate consideration for making an equitable division of property because this type of misbehavior typically isn’t relevant to the acquisition of marital property. The same cannot be said for economic fault, adultery or an addiction, all of which can directly influence a couple’s property.

There are several types of economic fault. They are:

  • dissipation of assets,
  • hiding assets,
  • diverting marital or community income to pay for an addiction,
  • spending marital or community income on an extramarital relationship,
  • excessive or abnormal spending,
  • destruction of property,
  • the fraudulent sale or conveyance of property, and
  • any other unfair conduct that prevents the court from making an equitable division of property.

Some divorcing spouses believe that once they are separated and a divorce filed that marital misconduct, especially adultery or economic fault, has no effect on the outcome in a divorce. That isn’t actually the case. Each divorce is very fact specific and the same logic about the impact of marital misconduct on the division of property applies whether it occurred prior to the separation or during the pendency of a divorce. This is particularly true for economic misconduct.

There are some states that have statutes that specifically permit a court to award a disproportionate or lesser share of property to an offender-spouse, particularly if the misconduct can be classified as economic. The facts of each particular divorce play a heavy role in how the court applies the law.

In cases that involve the dissipation, hiding or destruction of assets, the excessive or abnormal spending of income, or the fraudulent conveyance of assets the court can’t increase the size of the marital or community estate that actually exists. However, it can order a disparate division of the existing and known property to reimburse the victim-spouse for his or her loss in the couple’s estate.

In addition to having a possible effect on the division of property, marital misconduct may also have an effect on the amount of spousal support an ex-spouse may receive provided he or she qualifies for such support. This can work both ways. If the spouse who may be entitled to receive support is guilty of the misconduct, his or her receipt of support may be in jeopardy depending upon the nature and level of the misconduct. On the other hand, a paying spouse might have to pay more, especially if his or her behavior caused the victim-spouse to give up or reduce the ability to earn income.

The following states take marital fault into consideration when determining an award of spousal support: Alabama, Arizona, Connecticut, District of Columbia, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Louisiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, West Virginia and Wyoming. (Source: American Bar Association, Family Law Quarterly, Winter 1998, Tables Summarizing the Law in Fifty States)

The following states take marital misconduct, especially economic fault, into consideration when dividing marital or community property or in reimbursing the marital or community estate: Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Florida, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia and Wisconsin. (Source: American Bar Association, Family Law Quarterly, Winter 1998, Tables Summarizing the Law in Fifty States).


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143 Comments on "Divorce and marital misconduct"

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What about misconduct and child custody? Does anyone care who is looking after the vulnerable little ones?

And there’s another issue:
PROVING the misconduct.

Many of these types abuse in secret and then they use it to turn the divorce in to a protracted “she said he said”

I think if people are going through a divorce and believe that they have been married to a sociopath, then they need to take extra precautions. During my divorce proceedings, my ex acted in very bizarre ways. My psychologist advised me to tell my lawyer all that he was doing. When I did, my lawyer’s advice was to focus only on the finances of the divorce. She told me that longterm, my relationship with my ex would be better if I only focused on the numbers”ignore the crazy behavior because that would normalize and then things would eventually work out. This was very poor advice for me because my ex’s behavior has continued to be crazy and I have no documentation (except from my psychologist) that it occurred. Now looking back, I would have documented with the police all the craziness. When my five year old called from a weekend visit crying saying that daddy told them he would never see them again and that they had to wait for me outside in the driveway, I now wish I had called the police to document it. The five year old was the oldest at the time. When I went to pick them up”the five year old was sitting in a steaming hot car crying, and the three and one year old were playing in the driveway unsupervised. When I knocked on the door, my ex would not answer. I have many, many stories like this, and none of it was documented because of my lawyer’s advice.
During my divorce my ex would not agree to it. He vowed that he would not divorce me, and if I went through with it, I would be sorry. I kept pushing through the process which took a lot of time and money. The divorce finally went to trial. My ex did not have a lawyer. My own lawyer was very sure that everything would work out fine. She mocked my ex for not having a lawyer. Well, when it came to his turn to speak. He told the judge in a very sad and “sincere” voice that he had nothing to say or ask me. He only wanted to present the court with a document that explained his side. The judge allowed it, and then broke for lunch. During lunch, my lawyer was confident and barely mentioned the “document”, but said she would object to it because we had not seen it, and the judge would agree that he could not use it. My lawyer felt very confident about the whole affair. I never saw the document during lunch. I actually didn’t get to see it until the following day. When we got back from lunch, my lawyer objected to the document, the judge said that my ex could present it and gave my lawyer the opportunity to cross examine him on it. My lawyer also had not read it and had no idea what it said. She asked one question about the health insurance and said that was all. Apparently, the judge had read it during lunch, and then asked my ex if he was aware of his right to seek custody. She asked him if he was comfortable with the fact that I had custody. At this point, I panicked. The judge was questioning my ability to have custody! My ex said he was unsure. The judge then said that she wanted the court officers to explain this to my ex because he did not have a lawyer. She said she was considering assigning a guardian ad litum to look into the custody of my children. At the time, I did not know what a guardian ad litum was. All I heard was that my ex could have custody. The court officer met with both of us. I think he knew what kind of person my ex was because he had been working with over the year. He persuaded my ex to allow me to have custody, but I agreed to crazy things, like not moving within 10 minutes from our marital home. It was so scary. The next day, I went to my lawyer’s office to read the document. I couldn’t believe what I read. It was so scandalous and full of lies. He said I lived a double life, had affairs, and had been paying our mortgage with our credit cards and hiding the money set aside for the mortgage in a secret account. Later, I had the mortgage company write a letter saying that they do not accept mortgage payments made by credit card. Many of the accusations he made could be proven untrue with facts”but many were heresay. His word against mine. I was really in shock that this happened to me. I immediately changed lawyers, and sought advice about what to do. The lawyers I talked to said that they believed the judge was wrong to allow the document without me seeing it and having time to respond to it, but challenging her decision would be very, very expensive for me and would result in little change in the outcome. Deciding to do nothing about it was devastating to me. By not acting on it, I felt my character was very questionable in the eyes of the court. My ex capitalized on me not challenging it, by using this as proof that what he accused me of was true, when really it was that I had no money to fight it. It was after this that people connected to my husband shunned me. It was really hurtful. My neighbors across the street whom we had been friends with for over five years stopped talking to me altogether. They just completely ignored me as did many other people. Since the divorce, my ex has taken me back to court many times”he uses it as a way to continue to hurt and cause anxiety. He continues to lie with ease. Up until three years ago, I went along with my lawyers advice that in all situation we should try to compromise”work things out”.give my ex the benefit of the doubt”.forgive and forget and things will get better. I have really come to the conclusion that when you deal with a sociopath, you can not be compromising. The agreement needs to be extremely structured. You have to document every incident with the police”.because if it has been going on for a long time, it will continue to go on. If you don’t have documentation, you have nothing. My ex continues to be extremely hateful. One of the books I read on dealing with aggressive parenting said that in usual circumstances you want to be accommodating and flexible with visitation, but in cases where one parent is aggressively trying to ruin the relationship of the other parent/child bond, then very strict visitation needs to be established. My experience with the court system has not been positive at all. It seems that appearance and dealing with a heavy court load is what dictate the outcome of divorce and custody cases.

Hi guys:
Today I was at the courthouse filing a bench warrant for spath 2&3 (business relationship).
There has been some confusion on the courts side on the process because they have only done ONE other case such as this…..(had someone taken it this far).

Anyways, in clearing up the process ( I had to do my own research and clarify it to the court clerk)….we got to chatting…..
she asked for a ‘refresher’ on what this case was….I gave her the name (ALWAYS USE THEIR LAST NAME>….make an impact….and keep it in the courts memory)…..and I gave her the lowdown. She said ….oh, so this isn’t your husband….
I said NO…..and it led me into my speal……

THEN…..I went into my Cluster B speal……both clerks were captivated and participated on a ‘personal’ level….they were engaged and asked what a Cluster B was……I explained….
The head supervisor said….Oh, we see em in here every day.
I said, YES….you most certainly do! The other clerk said, she has had personal experience with a spath….
The supervisor said, “One guy stands out in my mind specifically’ from here……
I said, well…..do you remember my ex hubbahubba? She laughed and said his name…..and said….YES….that’s the one who stands out!!! 🙂

Whenever I hear this I’m always surprised…..I think this is probably the hardest for me to process……because i thought EVERYONE LOVED HIM……. I CERTAINLY never noticed peeps looking at him through one eye……or questioning him….
I never realized and still don’t really, that people see right through him……
I guess, because he does have his ‘crew’ of supporters….
But they do come in and out in a revolving door fashion……

Well and ofcourse, they wouldnt’ ever have brought their true feelings of him to my attention…..and I was BLIND!!!!

She went into the times he came into the court CRYING…..she said it was so pathetic, she had his number right from the beginning…..
She said another day he came in saying he was affraid of me killing him becvause I was mentally Ill, and how can he get me ‘back’ into the mental institution……
MENTAL INSTITUTION……..BACK……when was I ever in one to begin with?????????? HOLY SHIAT!
Honest to god……I am shocked he never brought them in a plate of cookies!!!! Really!!!

Today was another opportunity to share the ‘gospel’ of Cluster B’s…..and to peeps who have direct contact with judges, and can either make or break the attempts at legal proceedings….filings etc…..in our cases…
This whole court (in my town) has been immensly helpful to me, and gone OVER AND ABOVE for me…..from the clerks to the constable……they all know me by first name and ALWAYS say HI EB! They have walked me through all of my processes……step by step……and now we are learning together!
I now realize why the spath filed his TPO against me in the larger city down the ‘hill’…..and NOT in our town…..
this clerk wouldn’t ‘help’ him….just give him the paperwork and say….sorry I can’t give you legal advice…..
and shut him down! Since he wasnt’ capable of filling out the paperwork, he turned to her, she shut him down….(knowing ‘who’ he was and how he was playing the system and me and kids)….
He filed in the city…….and was denied.

I loved what I heard today and what I was able to share!!!!

Perfect scenario!!

So glad you were validated EB. It sounds like you have worked hard on how to use the system and not depend on attorneys. I am sure the clerks admire your drive.

In reading the mental institution part…was your ex ever in one? I see “they” like to project even their past onto us…and we can learn alot about THEM this way.

Mine was hospitalized(psych break) prior to our divorce and from your post, I see the wisdom of putting that in our divorce complaint as public record….otherwise, he would be spreading all over town that it was ME.

Now he has to come up with ORIGINAL lies about me..cant use HIS transgressions. But I do look for some doozies in the future, as this plays out..

I don’t know if someone has said it, but I would like to welcome sandra bullock to the club.

Good morning everyone. I’m glad Sandra Bullock was brought up because that has been on my mind since it came out. If it can happen to her nobody is safe. I really HOPE and PRAY that she does NOT take that man back. Tiger’s wife Elin really disappointed me. I was so disappointed that my ex s’paths wife took him back-AFTER YEARS OF HIM CHEATING WITH younger women.

His M.O. is the same every time-find a young attractive wounded vulnerable woman-15-20 yrs younger than him and prey on emotionally. He says whatever he has to so he can into their hearts, gets all the sex he wants, promises them 4ever and then discards them and ruins their reputations.

My ex would have had a full-on breakdown if the wife hadn’t have taken him back. I know he may have come after me but I STILL wish he would get what he deserves. After all, I have two guns to protect me. He gets away with this over and over again.

It is a shame she seems to qualify.

Once a cheater always a cheater…..a leopard doesn’t change its spots….I wish I could think of more, but I’m coming up blank right now.

My most recent memory of Jesse James and Sandra Bullock was at the Academy Awards last month. Jesse was standing in the background holding Sandra’s clutch, while Sandra was telling the interviewer that her husband is the hardest working man in Hollywood, and Jesse works harder than anyone blah blah…..as if Jesse was gracing everyone with his presence by showing up at the Oscars with Sandra….That’s what a husband is SUPPOSED to do!!!
SandraSandraSandra…..we need to talk about RED FLAGS!

That was a red flag for me right there.
And, sure enough, 10 days after that the cheater is exposed. And Sandra is left with egg all over her face and a broken heart.

I’m reading this really great book right now called “The Gaslight Effect”.
I am learning A LOT about gaslighting and emotional manipulation.

According to this book, Jesse James would classify as a “Good Guy” Gaslighter. He’ll stand in the background and hold his wife’s purse to portray himself as a good guy, but he really doesn’t give a damn about his wife because he’s cheating on her with other women.

I suspect that’s how he hooked Sandra to begin with.
By presenting himself as a “good guy”….or a “reformed” bad boy.
And thus, he was able to distort her version of reality into something that was false.
She fell for it hook, line, & sinker.

BTW, the list of mistresses is growing, just like it did with Tiger.

EEESSSHHH!

I am not convinced tiger woods and jessie james are the same, even though their actions mimic each other; I base this on the interviews that I have read about their wives. Sandra Bollock was under the impression they were in love. She was completely bamboozled to the point that she was thanking him for having her back in front of the whole world. I read that Tiger Woods wife spent most of her time alone and was unhappy throughout the marriage. She was not bamboozled that their life was the perfect love.

Maybe they are the same, just in different stages of the act; but I am not totally convinced of this. I do know for sure that Sandra was completely led astray to the point that she was humiliating herself in public because she was living a lie.

Sandra fits more closely with my experience, because I thought we had love and i went so far as to have a baby and then end up humiliating myself at 6 months pregnant when he proved to the whole world that the love was a sham and not true. up until that point I had no idea that it wasn’t real, and I don’t think Sandra did either. Tiger woods wife on the other hand, doesn’t seem bamboozled and maybe that is why she is taking him back. From the articles I read she seems to have known that their marriage was not all that great, so her level of humiliation (at least to herself) may have felt less because she was living closer to the truth throughout their marriage.

That is my perspective as an extreme outsider. Either way I would get rid of both of them.

I flip flopped between Sandra and Elin……
I guess that would name me Selina.

Not happy….and bamboozled!
GrEAT COMBINATION!!!!!

XXOO
SELINA

Bird:

I don’t think Jesse James & Tiger Woods are the same, either. No 2 people are exactly the same.

But, their cheating habits are VERY SIMILAR.

The fact that Elin is reacting differently or may have been a little more aware of what was going on with Tiger as opposed to Sandra, who seems to have been more in the FOG with Jesse, speaks to the differences in the 2 women, as opposed to the differences in the 2 men.

If someone punches you in the face, you might punch back.
If someone punches me in the face, I might walk away (and hire a hit man later 🙂 ).

We both got the same treatment, but our reactions to it are different.
That’s the difference between you and me.
It has nothing to do with the abuser’s behavior, because the abuser’s behavior was the same.
That’s all I’m trying to say.

Maybe you are right.
Maybe Jesse James is a much better gaslighter/con artist than Tiger, and that’s why Sandra was in the FOG so deeply. Or maybe there is something in Sandra’s past that made her so blind.
Maybe Elin is better at trusting her gut instincts.
Who knows????
These are impossible questions to answer.
The only people who really know what’s going on are the 2 people in the marraige.

Whatever was going on in both marriages… I guarantee you one thing…

THERE WERE RED FLAGS WAVING IN BOTH MARRIAGES FOR BOTH WOMEN.

Perhaps like so many of us, the women chose to ignore it or didnt know how to deal with them, chose to deny it, or acept sorry excuses/defenses. In Sandras case I believe like so many of us she fell in love with the idea of love, practically idealized “it/him”… believing in the false notion that if you give someone your best they surely will do the same in return. His actions at times surely must have given her that awkwardness in her stomache…but when you dont know what to do with the red flags (flee run move on) you are basically a sitting duck. Jesse and many men (or women for that matter) dont know what to do with a partner who loves them. They are more comfortable with others who use them and dont so much care about them. Its sick…its twisted….

I think Tiger was more of an intentional planned master manipulator – to many including his wife. Esp. when he realized what his profession/status could do for him. They never think they will be caught.

In both marriages the men made unhealthy selfish selfish choices. And I would venture to say the women made unhealthy selfless selfless choices throughout the journey with their spouses.

What made Sandra so blind …might have been never being exposed to a personality like Jesses…never knowing such toxic men in her life and never being made aware of the red flags, how to handle them and what she truly deserves. She had Jesse’s back…so she assumed he had hers…I bet my bottom dollar he didnt exhibit “having your back” kind of behavior…In her Barbara Walters interview I sensed a woman who needed to feel someone had her back…instead of first learning to hold herself up on her own and leaning on eachother for support if need be…

Its weird how one has to go through so much pain in able to begin to learn about themselves and others in life. You would think we would all have some way of educating eachother early in life – about the red flags, the things we do/dont deserve and how to love ourselves first and expect only the best – and make certain we are treated with good real actions from significant others.

just my two cents… these two media stories should be the beginning of possibilities for exposure to toxic dysfunctional personality disordered topics to the public and bring awareness to RED FLAGS, etc….

421dmb2

so sorry with all you you have been through. You are learning all the time though I can really hear that, YOU KNOW the structure that is needed when going through a divorce with a sociopath.

There should be a special edition of rules and regulations when dealing with, what is is effect a non human, an anti human being and YOU should be consulted when it is being drawn up.

Is there any way you could put forward some guidelines for people going through this process with a sociopath???

Feel proud that you can put words on your experience and warn others!!! that’s great.

Oh and by the way, How are you today?

I am just overwhelmed with the extent these F”ck***rs DAMAGE!!!!
RAAAAAAARRRRRH! okay now I’m a bit better. Calm down bulletproof.
So where was i? yes guidelines….advice….teach

Dear ROSA,

GREAT MINDS RUN IN THE SAME TRACK—I am also reading “Gaslight Effect,” started it last night in fact! “Stalking the Soul” hasn’t arrived yet, should this week I imagine.

I agree with two things, 1) only the intimates of the relationship can know what is going on, and one of them may be BLINDED by the FOG and 2) the different women can react differently to the same kind of treatment.

It is yet to be seen if Tiger’s “marriage” arrangement will “last” and how long before he gets caught again. We can pretty well figure he is not going to CHANGE. Many people stay in a “marriage” because of lots of reasons besides “love”–do you think Anna Nichole Smith married the old guy for “LOVE”? Ah come on! LOL

I feel sorry for anyone who decides to stay in a “marriage” that is not for love, but they are 21 and can make their own decisions, but I just think back to Nichole Brown-Simpson and even though she wasn’t still in the “marriage,” she was still in a twisted relationship with him and look what it cost her. Look how many times she took him back after he abused her physically.

Not all Psychopaths become killers but so many guys and women who do commit domestic violence end up doing some pretty nasty stuff! Killing included.

Saw one on Dateline last night were a woman made her pre-teen kids help her dispose of the body! Finally, after 27 years one of the girls told someone and the woman was convicted, and typical for a Psychopath, she blamed it on the daughter who exposed her, who was 12 at the time!!!!! There were eventually 10 (TEN) members of the family who knew about the murder, and only this one woman finally exposed it.

The worst part to me what that when the daughter would try to talk to the mother about it, the mother would say “I love you and if it takes me turning myself in to make you happy, I will do it.” Talk about the FOG–fear, obligation and guilt that woman was laying on her daughter to keep her quiet.

OxDrover:

I think “The Gaslight Effect” is another great book.
I’m finding a lot of valuable information.
I think it’s a great book for anyone who wants to enter the dating arena, and is afraid of getting hooked up with another abuser.

Rosa

Thanks, I so want to enter the dating arena but am so ultra cautious its a bit of a joke…..

I DO NOT WANT AN ABUSER EVER AGAIN

(I can hear a psychopath laugh in the distance….)

“Anna Nichole Smith married the old guy for “LOVE”?”

SHE DIDN”T??????????

Bulletproof:

I also like going out on a good old-fashioned date once in a while myself.

I like strong, powerful men who take charge.
Some call that the sociopath type….but I don’t want a sociopath.
I refuse to believe that every strong, take-charge kind of guy that I meet is going to be a socio.

It’s tricky, though.
There CANNOT be any “hiccups” in their personality.
A “hiccup” is a “what the hell was that” kind of moment.
I think you know what I mean.
No HICCUPS allowed! In fact, don’t even stare too long.

SO…..I am arming myself with knowledge to protect myself.
Because, let’s face it…it’s a jungle out there.

I have replaced the rose-colored glasses with a magnifying glass and pepper spray.

Wish me luck….

one/joy_step_at_a_time

rosa – every woman’s best accessories!

Rosa,

a magnifying glass and a GUN is a better option for accessorising yourself.

Yea, I am enjoying the book so far, but it isn’t a thing that I reserve for just dating, I think any relationship can have gaslighting in it. Useful knowledge at home, work or play!

I don’t think the natural gas line that runs under my land clear to Chicago could carry all the “gas” that has been “lighted” for my benefit throughout my life. Especially by my egg donor.

As I learn more about this junk I am able to go back and put a “meaning” and a “word” to some of the memories I have from the past, kind of like SEEING RED FLAGS in retrospect. But, at least it makes those memories make SENSE now.

I guess too if you don’t know the CAUSE of some consequences you can’t prevent it in the future. I once watched a horse reach it’s head OVER an electric fence wire to get a drink (it did not know the wire was there) it touched the fence with its neck and “stampeeded up and down and all directions at once” but it did NOT connect the shock to the fence, but to the BUCKET it was drinking from. So the horse did not learn about fences, and you could never get that horse NEAR A BUCKET AGAIN because he thought he had been BITTEN by the bucket.

So sometimes I think we attach consequences to something that is not the actual cause of the PAIN WE EXPERIENCED. In seeing “red flags in retrospect” I think we can learn a great deal because I don’t want to be “running from buckets’ when the real cause is a FENCE CHARGER.

The gaslight effect; I should read that. I have been with one bad man after another since the sociopath. My picker is broken. My current boyfriend just asked me to borrow my car for the weekend because his is broken, and when I said I needed a car here because of the kids, he said ” thanks a lot!” In a sarcastic, guilt provoking way. I said “will you leave your car?” He said yes he would and that my concern of needing a car is totally unfounded. I said “but I have the kids here, and I need a car”. I then told him “I don’t borrow my car to people who treat me like crap, that is not how it works” and I hung up. Oh well. I think it might be one of those red flags that we are talking about. But then again, maybe its just me. There can’t be this many bad dudes in the world. I can’t be picking all of them. I don’t get it.

I hear ya about the reactions of sandra and erin. Partially the reason I posted it was to see if my thinking on the matter was off or not. Same act; isn’t that strange that both men did the same thing? Is it getting more and more common? Has it always been like this?

Dear Bird,

Sweetie, your PICKER IS BROKEN, and you were TOTALLY right to keep your car. If he wants a car let him provide himself with one.

May I make a suggestion? That you kick this dude to the curb with the other LOSERS and abusers and that you take a break from dating for a while.

One of the things I found as I worked my way through this healing is that just when I thought I was “safe” from melt downs or decisions I should give more thought to, I would have a “problem”—and it some how just takes TIME to get through this thing, Bird, and every time we get ourselves in ANOTHER mess we set ourselves back to square one. The P-BF I dated after my husband died, SET BACK. My egg donor’s illness and my beloved Stepfather’s death=SET BACK and then the Trojan Horse Psychopath=SET BACK and then my son C’s lying to me =SET BACK and so on, one set back after another.

Iit took time of me just focusing on ME and not trying to have a relationship with “man” besides trying to heal.

You can’t get a baby in one month by getting 9 women preg, and healing takes TIME and can’t be rushed.

You are a young woman and young women want a relationship with a mate, and so do OLD WOMEN, LOL but I have learned that ANY person who shows disrespect for me is NO GOOD for me.

DO NOT allow anyone to show you disrespect or to treat you badly. YOU DO NOT NEED THESE PEOPLE. I was so lonely for quite a while and I felt if I had a good man in my life it would make my life better, but I saw (finally) that I have to take care of ME and give myself TIME to heal and be happy and then I can SHARE that happiness with a healthy man who is happy. BUT NO ONE can make me happy except ME!

DO NOT let anyone treat you with disrespect—YOU AND THE BIRDIE DESERVE BETTER! Ditch this loser! ((((Hugs)))) and all my love and prayers, Oxy

So true. Time for a break. I can do it! I think I keep striving for happy ever after still, and I really should stop. I just acted as easter bunny (hiding baskets and eggs) so I am still awake. Tomorrow is a new and wonderful day with the kids. Happy easter ox and hens!

Dear Bird,

Happy Easter to you too sweetie and to my “Baby Birdie”!!!!

The “happy ever after” WILL come in time for you Bird, but the thing I have found is that it does NOT take anyone else to make me happy, just ME! Even with 100 people who love me, none of them can make me happy, I have to do that myself!!!!

Happiness is a do-it-yourself project! I remember the first Easter we hid eggs for my first little boy! Oh, my gosh did he enjoy that and found all the eggs!

ENJOY those babies! and Take care of YOU and THEM…focus on just that and nothing else! NOTHING ELSE!!!!

THE HAPPY EVER AFTER is finally getting there for me, Bird, and it has been slow. After my husband died I thoujght I would never be happy again, then I thought a man would make me happy and I PICKED A P! No happiness there, just more misery! Getting myself together is the biggest and best thing I can do to be happy! Even with the “greatest” guy, if I am not happy and respect myself and INSIST that others treat me with respect too—what good is anything?!

You tell that sarcastic horse’s butt that your Aunty Oxy is gonna CLEAN HIS PLOW if he doesn’t get it and get gone! ((((Hugs))))) and all my prayers for you and Birdie! Love Oxy

Who are you calling a sarcastic horse butt? I started painting the ouside of ny house this morning, this is something I wanted to do two years ago, but now that I have that pain in the ass out of my life I can get off my ass and do things again..not sure if I like the color i picked but have to go with it..
guess I am going to church in the morning with all the other easter sunday hypocrites, my grandson called and asked so I cant say know to that..wont hurt me none..I just thot of something , it was easter sunday four years ago I went to church with my kids, I remember what a empty confused shell of a person i was then,, I prayed for an answer as what to do with M..a year later he was gone..I also remember what M did that morning I went to church, I will spare all the details, oh my I am a very happy guy now as compared to then..
Happy Easter to every one hope you all find that lucky Egg…

YES….Happy Easter to my LF friends……
I hope the Easter bunny leaves some good caramel filled eggs for you all!!!

XXOO
EB

Happy Easter to you too, Hens. I feel blessed, too. I am so much happier this year, than I was last, or the year before.

Hope you find a good egg. But if you don’t hope you find the treasure in yourself and have a wonderful day.

Happy Easter lovefraud friends!!

This time last year, the shit was about to hit the fan and I had a false sense of security. I was blindly in love and naively believed that the s’path was in love with me too.

I feel better now-this year. I feel good that life is real now. It’s not the most fun in the world but I am not in a fake happiness and being fooled anymore. Even though I’m alone, I feel lucky and blessed that everything is mostly calm.

It’s a pretty day here in NOLA-hoping we can hold off on the rain until tomorrow when I’m working and hoping that the beeper doesn’t go off.

I’m watching “The War”-one of my favorite movies and will probably get out and get in a nice walk.

Have a wonderful day everyone!

Happy Easter to all! Its absolutely gorgeous out!

Easter is a time of NEW beginnings! So…we are all going to have a happy spring and summer!

We are all survivors….and our efforts will be rewarded!

Got home from Brooklyn at 2:30am. Smooth sailing…the weekend went well…met some wonderful NYU students! My daughter loved the “film people” and it was so good to get out and meet students from CA, IL, Brazil, Montana, Arizona!
They were so great..the whole crew. I bonded with them in the two days and had tears in my eyes to leave them. We talked alot and I educated them about people and relationships.
ALL but one, came from divorced homes!! And, most were divorced when the kids were young! I was really surprised because these students were wonderful kids and going to a very good school! (I always felt bad that my girls grew up in a single parent household…)

So, my oldest daughter is seriously considering going to this school someday. She wants to get into theatre/flimmaking…etc..

It was an adventure and I realized what a BIG world there is out there…May even be considering a move back up north Jersey to be closer to the city!!

Lots to think about….

Have a great day everyone!

tobe-I’m glad you’re back. Happy Easter. It’s beautiful here in NOLA too. I hope to get in a nice work. Atkin’s Diet tomorrow. I just came from the grocery. Getting serious about the workouts. My 10K for the police is in October and I want to run the WHOLE thing this time, instead of walking half.

LOL…Erin…serious Atkins for me to and workout starting tomorrow!
Can’t do it today…
Wow..10K!!! You can do it!
I can walk that…but thats about it…maybe.
I had trouble walking up to the fourth floor in Brooklyn..
Torn miniscus in both knees!!!
But, I’m holding up!

Gotta decided if we should move back up north to my old stomping ground. Its so pretty here….but, gotta do the pros and cons. Alot of limboland still..with the house and all…

Oh, well..whatever is meant to be…will be.
Taking things one day at a time…

Things always work out….just keeping the FAITH.

Have a great day. RELAX..

tobe-thanks girl-have a great day! I need to wash my truck-it’s covered with green pollen!

Dear Henry,

Hope the church roof doesn’t fall in on your head, but seems to me that your PRAYER WAS ANSWERED and you got rid of the scumbag! Sounds good to me!

Nice here today but a bit overcast, and that’s okay, no rain forecast! Opened all the windows and doors, company left and just kicking back. No kiddies to hide the eggs for, but if I see that stinking chocolate laying rabbit I’ll get my shotgun!

You guys have a wonderful day!

Rosa Good luck out there in the jungle!

You say:

I have replaced the rose-colored glasses with a magnifying glass and pepper spray.

Hee hee that’s so funny. I have had a few dates since the P (all from the internet) and I had very carefully lined up the meetings in neutral venues, no dropping me home or collecting me…I get there myself and vanish afterwards if needs be.

Well they only have to be nervous and look sideways to be sprayed with the pepper spray. I just play games back and wiggle out of next meeting feeling ugh…why? because I DO NOT TRUST A SINGLE ONE OF EM. and I CAN SMELL RATS EVERYWHERE

I have stopped dating for oh about 5 months now as some healing needs to occur first. Its sad because I think now that i’m bulding up enough strength to HANDLE ANOTHER P and until I do that I will not be falling in love….”falling” for rosecolored bullshit…..load up the peppercan and spray em to hell…..

Ox- that’s why I couldnt even consider using a gun. I’d be a serial killer!
(JOKE)

Rosa

Agree with what you say:

I like strong, powerful men who take charge.
Some call that the sociopath type”.but I don’t want a sociopath.
I refuse to believe that every strong, take-charge kind of guy that I meet is going to be a socio.

I am the same! but it’s a thin line….how do you know, how do you know…I was fooled before by a sleazy psychopath who’s to say the next one won’t be WORSE

I am seeking your assistance. I am living in California, desperately needing to finalize my divorce from a sociopath after 28, soon to be 29 years of marriage. Also, need some direction in filing a legal malpractice case before the statute of limitations arrives.

The attorney I was recommended to for my divorce failed to file all the documents I provided them with the court within a timely manner. In 2008 I was advised by another family law attorney, the statute for legal malpractice in the state of California is four years. I do not know if that is still the current limit or the statute of limitations is based upon whichever statute was in affect at the time of the offense.

Please does anyone know/able to advise/suggest where to start regarding the following matters:
• One; Know of any one in East Contra Costa County doing pro-bono or barter Family Law work? I must get divorced from this man ASAP. I am sincerely concerned for my well being and the CA courts really don’t “get it” and could care less.
• Two; How can I find out more about Legal Malpractice in California and speak with someone who will help me go forward with this? No one should be ripped off this way, ever.

Thank you,
Me2…Still Muddling Through the Aftermath and Looking to a brighter future.

Me2:
There is a process you must follow, as in everything.

You need to check with the Ca. State Bar.
here is the website link.
http://www.calbar.ca.gov/state/calbar/calbar_generic.jsp?cid=10179&id=1144

Its hard to offer you any suggestions not knowing your current legal situation/standings.

I would highly suggest, if a divorce is as important as you write…..then get on it yourself!
There is an immense amount of information on the internet……know the laws, know the rules, find legal aid and DO IT!

There is a lot of Domestic V. shelters, county legal aid clinics, lawyer in the library programs etc….to guide you filling out documents.
SEEK OUT THOSE agencies……
Pro-bono is hard to come by these days….but they are still out there……if you are an abused woman, or hispanic….I found it easier to get help……(I got the door slammed in my face…so expect it).

First thing is getting a divorce…….THAT”S YOUR PRIORITY…..
I believe you won’t be able to get an attoreny with a ten foot pole if they know you have a claim filed……THEY don’t want to be the next claim.

Concentrate on that!!!

Get on the web…..find your resources……educate yourself on the process and get on it.

I have found: We walk this earth with only our shadows……..

We have to be self suffiecient…..even if we DO have an attorney……we must guide and steer our own case….OR we get lost and set aside…..I think you have learned this lesson.

Anyways…..good luck with your process……and Welcome to LF.

Me2:
Divorce:

Bay Area Legal Aid
405 14th Street, 9th Floor
Oakland, CA
(510) 663-4744
——————————

Bay Area Legal Aid, Contra Costa County
Address 1025 Macdonald Avenue
Richmond, CA 94801
Voice (510) 233-9954
Fax (510) 236-6846
Email [email protected]
Web http://www.baylegal.org

Isaw a book once I think the name was “lawyers who sue lawyers” and a friend of mine successfully sued his attorney in CA for malpractice didn’t get a lot, but some money.

Thank you ErinBrock and OxDrover for responding to my inquiry. Priority is the divorce, the legal fraud action is secondary. Money is not the motivation. The goal is stand up for myself, have it reported, investigated, and on record.

Hopefully, this will prevent someone else from having the same experience with the same office.

Me2

Me2, I haven’t read all of the responses, so this may be a redundant suggestion, but Barbara Bentley changed divorce Law as a result of her own horrific experiences with her ex-spath in the State of CA. “Dancing with the Devil,” provides insight, reality, and valuable information on what can possibly occur during (and, after) the separation/divorce proceedings.

ErinBrock and OxDrover have provided some EXCELLENT suggestions, and you can bank on their soundness!

Get through the divorce processes, first, unless your attorney (who should be thoroughly familiar with spath/ppath) suggests otherwise.

Brightest blessings to you, Me2.

Good Afternoon All,
This is my first comment on Lovefraud blog. I have been reading the post / comments for a while now.
My story is like some others. I have been in an on again / off again relationship for 22 years with a man that I now KNOW is a sociopath. Bad thing is… on April 9, 2010 I married this man. He promised to admit himself to an extensive rehab center.
I work for the federal government and have great benefits. Unfortunately, Mr G (that’s what Ill call him) has never worked so my insurance was needed for him to get better. We married, and he knew rehab was no option. The honeymoon was great. Yes, we both drank too much, but I kept thinking this lifestyle was about over. A week after we were married Mr. G told me he didnt need rehab. I was heart broken. Mr G. has an extensive criminal history ranging from theft by deception, domestiv voilence with his ex wife to many, many DUI’s and alcohol related violations.
I dont know if Mr. G’s behavior got worse or if I was just more aware of it after the marriage. (my first marriage, his 4th) I would take his verbal and emotional abuse DAILY. He would text me with horrible messages. I felt the poison of his mental disorder affecting my soul. I knew I had to get out. His best drinking buddy started being at the house all the time. They would drink from the time they got up to the time they passed out, EVERYDAY!! I work 10 hour’s a day, 4 days a week. I am off every Fri, Sat and Sun. There was never a time of peace or relaxation. Only when he and his buddy would go MIA for a few days, did I really get any rest. I am paying all the bills for the house, utilities and food. I dont know where Mr. G got his money, but he always had some to buy alcohol.
The poop hit the fan on May 4th. Mr. G and his buddy had been gone from the house for almost 48 hours. He showed up around 6:45pm. One of my friends (girl) was at the house and we were on the back porch. He stumbled in the house daring me to call the cops on him. He said “this is my house as much as it is yours”. (NOT!! I have owned the house, by myself, since May 1999) He was pumped and looking for a fight. My friend and I ecnored him. That made him even more angry. He started telling me how he had been on a date with one of the girls on his facebook. He also told me that he has pictures of girls private parts on his cell phone, he asked if I wanted to see them. What ???
I felt my insides burning. My friend was so angry, she got into a verbal argument with him. Mr. G pushed her, she pushed back. Eventually, she and I left. We went to her house. I stayed ther for about 2 hours. She brount me home around 8:45pm. I had to be at work the next morning at 7am. Mr. G was still looking for a fight. I went into my bedroom and noticed that he had taken my cell phone, which was charging on my nightstand. He denied it, of course.
I thought, I have had enough. I confronted him about my cell phone. Lie after lie. I must admit, I had drink a few glasses of wine with my friend, so I felt 10 ft tall. After seeing that Mr. G wouldnt admit to taking my phone, I went to bed. Mr. G comes into my room. He has the nerve to get into bed with me and tell me that I better appreciate him. He was talking out of his head. He was telling me he only had 3 weeks to live and I should be good to him. I was sick at my stomach, listening to his lies. I left the bedroom. I saw Mr. G shaving bag on the back porch. I knew in my heart that my cell phone was in his bag. (he covets his shaving bad. No one can ever touch it or look in it) I got the shaving bag off the back porch and was coming back in the house. He confronted me in the living room. He grabbed the bag and went into a back bedroom. He locked the door, I got a butter knife and opened the door. Mr. G. confronted me the minute the door opened. He grabbed me and I grabbed him and we were in a shuving match over the shaving bag. Mr. G. pushed me out of the bedroom into the living room. He then knocked me on the head, causing a lens to come out of my glasses. I went on all 4’s looksing for my lens. I found my lens and went back into the master bedroomand locked the door. I went into the restroom. I could hear Mr. G thought the wall, he was in the kitchen breaking dishes. I ran out and saw him breaking things and his drinking buddy right behind him cleaning things up with a broom and dust pan. I yelled at them then went back into my bedroom and locked the door. Mr. G bused through the bedroom door and punched a hole in my closed door. He approached me on the bed, I resisted him with my legs. Once i was up, we again started hitting puching each other. His buddy broke us up. Mr. G went into the back bedroom and I went back to the master bedroom. I was crying and very upset. Next thing, a knock at the door. The police had been called. Mr. G told them I had stabbed him in the check. I was arrested for aggravated assault. The cop was so accomodating to Mr. G. The office said Mr. G’s story made more since than mine.
Mr. G is a 3 time conviceted felon. I have one speeding ticket on my record. I was lost. I was hurt. I was angry.
While I was sitting in jail, God spoke to me. He said “I said no to you for 22 years, you never listened. Finally I let you have what you thought you wanted. Now look where you are”. WOW, POWERFUL. My mother got me out and I have been staying with her since. I took a TPO (temp protective order) out on Mr. G. He was made to leave my house. I started seeing a counselor. She is GREAT. I feel myself healing from the vicious lifestyle. I have had NO CONTACT with Mr. G. I have filed for divoce, but the civil police cant locate him. I am scared about the charges against me. Does anyone have advise? He has told so many lies about that night. He cant even keep his story straight. When I went by my house after he was made to leave, there were 2 1/2 gallon liquor bottles (one empty, one full), many beer cans and small wiskey bottles in the trash.
I can’t believe I allowed myself to get to this. His manipulation and lies were so powerful. My gut knew something wasnt right, but I didnt listen. Mr. G continues to call police, trying to get back into the house. He is always told NO. We go to court on the protective order, June 1st. I invite any advise, I have never been down this legal road before.

{{{HadEnough01}}} Welcome and I am truly sorry that you’re a member.

I don’t have any suggestions for you, at all, other than to read as many of the older posts as you can. These threads can really fly, sometimes, and many valuable suggestions can be easily overlooked.

Hiring a balls-to-the-wall attorney, counseling (which you have begun), and no contact are priceless. With such a short marriage (6 weeks) you may be able to file for an annulment in your State – but, you’ll have to research that. I know that some States will enter an annulment if two people entered into a marriage under “false” pretenses – insurance coverage MAY qualify. Best to consult an attorney.

Say nothing to “mutual” friends – people that know you both, especially his drinking buddies. Collect, gather, and document any/all evidence of criminal activities, EVEN if you may have known about or were involved in. These are things that must be addressed, at some point, and taking ownership of my own misdeeds was a milestone on my healing path.

Look to OxDrover, ErinBrock, and others who have vast experience with the legal systems. They have more answers and suggestions than I could ever hope to know.

Brightest blessings to you. You’re in the right place, and heading down the path of healing.

Dear Enough,

Welcome to LF, and glad you landed here since you do need some support. I agree with Buttons, get a balls-to-the-walls attorney and STAY WITH THE COUNSELING. YOU are the importanht one here, learning about yourself and why you allowed this abuse (you are not responsible for him doing it but are accountable for repeatedly allowing it)

Start your road to wholeness by NO CONTACT—if he calls, don’t answer, if he texts, don’t read, NO contact. Protect yourself. And START TO FORGIVE YOURSELF—-we’ve all been there where we felt sooooooo stoooooopid, but you’re not, you just made some bad choices, but now you are going to make better ones! We all did! We are all working on making better ones now! God Bless, ande I’m glad He is patient with you too, it took a LOT OF TRIES for me to pass the course as well! ((((Hugs)))))

Mr.G is a Booger, hope he dies in three weeks. Welcome to LF…

hens……….bwahahahahahahaha!!!!

Hadenough:
First Off….NO CONTACT…..this relationship is OVER!
There is no reason to speak to a sociopath. Let’s face it, if you had a healthy relationshiop and could talk…you’d still be together.

I heard yesterday about purchasing a car ……don’t ever buy a car with the ‘future’ in mind.
Let’s put this same concept in place for relationships…..there IS NO FUTURE….

Second…..STOP DRINKING! You make poor decisions when your drinking and you need all your wits about you at this point!
You must make good decisions or your gonna go down with him. This point has been proven to you.

Find a good attorney who ‘gets it’ about sociopathic behaviors and fight the fight of vindication.

I’m curious about what evidence they had on you vs. him that they did not arrest him also……
and that YOU were able to get a TPO and get him out of house?
This is a gap I don’t understand.

Welcome to LF, keep your head on and have patience, diligence and perseverance.

Enough,

Welcome.

I agree with Hens and understand the confusion you feel. There may be reasons for why and how it happened and in time, you will get to the place where you are ready to look into it.

The most important first thing is to know you are welcome here and that all of us understand and empathize what you are going through.

To various degrees, we have all been there.

Be good to yourself, stay NO CONTACT and hang on the the notion it will get better.

We’ll be right here.

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