Hopefully, many of you read this blog because you want to know how a trained psychiatrist deals with the issues you also face. I am not glad to be eternally tied to a psychopath, but since I am, you and I share the same challenges. We can reflect on these challenges together and we will all be better and stronger.
This week I received an email from one of my ex-husband’s family members, so I will put off the planned discussion of psychopathic anxiety to address the issues raised by the email. The email points to the trivializing of the sociopath’s/psychopath’s behavior that family members often do. This week give some thought as to how you will deal with others who trivialize a sociopath’s/psychopath’s behavior or perhaps your own tendency to “excuse” what he/she does.
In case you missed this, my ex-husband is in prison and is a sex offender. Regarding the events which led to the prison sentence, one of his blood relatives just wrote me, “but I don’t agree with all of his choices and in all fairness I do understand your disgust with ________’s actions.”
I want to ask all of you to consider this question: Do sociopaths/psychopaths make choices? If they do what does it mean when we say we “disagree” with their choices? What is the difference between disagreeing with their choices vs. being “disgusted” by them?
Last night at La Salsa, my favorite restaurant I made a choice. I chose to have fish tacos and some chips. I chose the fish tacos because I really like them. If I didn’t like fish tacos I wouldn’t choose them. I have to also confess, that I ate a small amount of ice cream when I got home, even though I am counting calories. I also really like ice cream.
My food choices were indeed choices, but notice that you learn about me from my choices. In regards to the ice cream, you learn that my impulse control regarding food is only fair in that I ate the ice cream even though I am making an effort to reduce the amount of fat I eat. If you have met me, you know that I am not particularly overweight so you probably wouldn’t hold my ice cream consumption against me.
What we learn from my eating behavior is that all choices reflect the chooser and his/her circumstances. I ate the fish tacos because I went to La Salsa. I ate the ice cream because it was in my freezer. If I hadn’t gone to La Salsa or had ice cream in the freezer, I would have eaten differently.
That gets me to sociopaths/psychopaths. These individuals do not just make “choices.” They, with malice and forethought set up situations where they will be able to gratify their deviant impulses. My former husband sought me out so he would have access to victims in addition to me. The choices he made started with his looking for his next victim on the internet. That victim turned out to be me. This situation is analogous to my eating the ice cream last night, because although I am trying to eat healthier, I did buy the ice cream and put it in the freezer myself. I would have eaten 250 less calories last night if I didn’t buy the ice cream in the first place.
It is clear that a person’s pattern of choices reflects that person’s drives and impulse control. Most sociopaths/psychopaths have a clear pattern of “choices” that show clearly what and who they really are. During psychiatry residency I was taught that the best predictor of what a person will do in the future is what that person has done in the past. This is because the past is a reflection of who that person is.
If choices are a reflection of our person and our drives are we without choice in the end? The beauty of it is that we do have choices because as humans we have some capacity to set up our environments and to modify our drives. If it was really necessary for me to avoid ice cream, I simply would stop buying it in the first place. I can also work on liking fruit or some other healthier alternative. As a human I can change what I like, what I want and ultimately what I do.
On the other hand, if you really understand the connection between what a sociopath/psychopath chooses and what he/she IS you will move from disagreeing with the choices to being disgusted by the person. Merriam Webster’s online dictionary defines disgust as:
1. to provoke to loathing, repugnance, or aversion : be offensive to
2. to cause (one) to lose an interest or intention
Notice that seeing the connection between choices, behavior and the nature of a psychopath, provokes loathing, repugnance, aversion and loss of interest in the person. I have stated before that I believe the people who are “fascinated” by psychopaths do not understand them. Understanding psychopaths breeds contempt not fascination.
The other difference between disagreeing with what a psychopath does and being disgusted, is that disagreeing is an intellectual exercise, while disgust is an emotion. If you are disgusted by psychopaths, that emotion means you comprehend WHAT THEY ARE with your entire being.
Can sociopaths/psychopaths get help or ever make different choices?
The problem with psychopaths is that they are so grandiose that they never examine their own behavior, nor do they ever seek to modify their choices. The choices they make are a deep reflection of their pathology. That pathology includes a lack of desire to be anything other than what they are. But why don’t sociopaths/psychopaths desire to change? The answer is that they enjoy their choices too much. They also do not have insight enough to comprehend that their drives are deviant. They think everyone else is as they are, only weaker.
The other problem is that drives are triggered by the things that remind us of our pleasures. Since people trigger the sociopath’s/psychopath’s deviant drives for sex and power, in order to begin to be different they would have to stay away from other people. Since sociopaths/psychopaths don’t want to be alone, they can never take the steps required for change. They will therefore never be anything other than what they are- dangerous to everyone.
Hi…so just to weigh in on the question here, do they make choices…
There are behaviors they can CHOOSE that would still allow (some) of them to have functional, better lives – without abusing others. (I speak about my own circumstances, and I certainly don’t believe this about someone who is a sexual or child predator.)
But so the question is, what drives them to make the “wrong” choices? This is where I really get confused. Dr. Leedom, you say it’s because they actually enjoy their choices or the consequences of those choices. But if I look at someone like my ex-narcissist (whom I’m sure could/would be diagnosed with NPD), he has awareness of his destructive behaviors, of his vindictiveness, difficult personality. And he’s said that IN THE MOMENT, he just feels unable to control them, doesn’t understand why he can’t interact on a level that is not wrong to others.
He made the wrong choices with respect to me – over and over and over again – refusing to see how beaten down i was getting. Now that I’ve left – the reckoning is shocking. And though I know I’m not supposed to feel pity (it certainly doesn’t help me heal!) – I do. Because I feel that the self-destructive, terrible behavior is governed by drives that he really can’t, doesn’t know how, to control. He does not want to be in this situation. He has never really enjoyed his life or interpersonal relationships – he can’t. He just can’t. And in years of watching him struggle, I guess I don’t really believe that’s a choice he has.
I think the choice he does have is to recognize the pain he causes and modify his behavior to become more bearable. But that recognition comes with an enormous price – in this case, the loss of his marriage, which was literally the cornerstone of his life. (He actually had the nerve to say to me that he thought he could play with fire (his affair) because he knew I’d always be there for him!! Oh the tragedy.)
But I can’t feel disgust. Life is hard – for us now, but for them too. Yes, they take the easy way out – no self-examining, no will to change. But they live with their own enormous deficits, and they have to try get through life too…Is feeling disgust for them really the way to go? I feel disgust for some of his behaviors, but overall, I just feel a lot of sorrow for what HE faces in his future. Which is probably just going to be more of the same.
Tmassar,
I don’t think they “can’t control” their urges, I know they CAN–they can plot and plan and take years to bring together a con, so they have the CAPACITY to “delay gratification” to some extent…it isn’t that they dont’ know it is “wrong to steal” they KNOW it is, they know it is “wrong to murder” but I think they just don’t CARE that it is wrong–wrong for everyone else maybe,but not for THEM, the “rules” don’t “apply to them” they are “Special” and “entitled” to break the rules.
I DO think that they know that we are “differeent” from them, that we have “something” that they don’t, and they know we enjoy it (caring, love, closeness, bonding etc) but because they, like a child born blind, can’t perceive “sight,” that blind child knows others have someting he doesn’t but he isn’t really sure what it is. The P, though, unlike the blind child, since he can’t have “it” then he wants to take it away from us. It would be like the child born blind decides he should put the eyes out of everyone else since he can’t see and he knows that we can.
We are all “equal” before the law (or should be) and before God, but otherwise no two people are the “same”–each of us have talents in various things, more or less “smarts” more or less physical abilities, etc. NOT THE SAME—so I think this is their “handicap” to over come if THEY WILL, they CAN, just like the child born blind and deaf (Helen Kellar) became a very functional human being. She never saw, and never heard, but yet she had other talents that were developed.
We can see and hear (well, I am getting a bit near sighted and deaf as I age–LOL) and don’t have her handicaps, but each of us has others, and each of us has different talents that we can develop. Maybe you can sing and I can’t carry a tune in a bucket, but I play ping pong like a champ—not really, just an example, but we are unique, individual, and all worthwhile—-but we make our own choices which handicaps to let overtake us and keep us from developing the talents we do have, I think the P makes the same choices we do, or he or she could, except they ALLOW their handicap of lack conscience/bonding turn them into monsters of one degree or another, into abusers….they are the “blind child” trying to poke the eyes out of everyone else because they can’t see.
It’s a good way to put it. You’re right too – when i think about the choices he could have made — I threatened to leave and actually DID leave several times – scared him but not enough to effect change. And certainly I couldn’t have sounded the alarm bells more loudly. So yes, you’re right – he had a choice and very consciously chose wrong.
It’s funny (well not really, but anyway) – even now, I learned from friends that he has taken out a restraining order on the OW, so that, to everyone else, he could publicly blame her for our marriage failing. And this very act is just another bad choice on his part – he didn’t need to publicly humiliate her (not that I mind, hahaha) – he could have CHOSEN to have the courage to deal with her on his own terms. A year ago!
Yeah. ugh.
tmassar-
You do bring up an interesting observation that scientists have also made in laboratory studies and that addicts of all kinds report. That is in the beginning motivations are about pleasure but there are many instances where wanting and enjoying are separate. In fact the neurochemistry of wanting is different from that of liking. Liking involves endorphins and wanting comes from the dopamine system. Psychopaths both enjoy power and sex and at times pursue these compulsively in the absense of pleasure. In any case they sacrifice long term well-being for short term “gain.”
Tmassar,
I think about my son in prison the first time (he had already been in jail once for a few weeks before he turned 18) he got out, knowing he would not “go straight” (he had told me so while he was out) He CHOSE to not come back to live with me because “I knew if I got into trouble again you would turn me in to the law.” he said. I told him he was “right about that.”
He was almost immediately upon release engaged in illegal activities. When the inevidible happened, he got caught and his partner (a 17 yr old girl) was going to “cop a plea” against him, he CHOSE to kill her rather than face going back to prison. He was out only ONE day before he was arrested for murder.
After his original arrest as a juvie, he CHOSE to continue to rob, after he got out of prison that time, he again CHOSE to go back into illegal activities ALTHOUGH he had a choice, and did not even “need” to do this in order to live, have a place to stay etc. When he got caught again, he CHOSE the course of killing the girl rather than just go back to prison for a little while (a few months) on being busted for parole violation.
After he got back to prison “for life” (minimum 15 yrs) he CHOSE to violate prison rules, to smuggle things in illegally, etc. rather than abide by the rules. He got 19 “write ups” including a weapon charge, which most likely is why he did NOT get parole the first time, as they are emptying prisoners as quickly as they can due to over crowding. At the time his first parole came up my mom hired a lawyer to make him “look good” on paper at least and with a “supportive” family etc. he “should have made it.” Thank God he didn’t though.!
Everything that has happened to him in his teenaged years up to now are CHOICES he made when he had OTHER OPTIONS. He was not from a “deprived”home, he was not from an illiterate family, he had every opportunity to succeed that any kid could want….yet, he chose the same path that some kid from the ghettos would possibly choose. He was never really “rewarded” in the sense that you and I could understand, though I am sure he “got away with” a burgulary or two that he was never prosecuted for, but he got caught for every major “job” he did. He got punished (by our views anyway) yet he is not afraid of punishment, and it has in no way made him see that he “lost” or “paid” more than he “got” in return. Somehow, and I am not sure just how, he sees himself as a “winner” who is just “temporarily” inconvenienced by being in prison. Since, in my mind anyway, he has had very few even “short term gains” that lasted more than a few hours or days, he has sacrificed EVERYTHING for them, and doesn’t seem to realize he paid a high price for his “gains.”
Of course he keeps himself entertained inside in breaking the rules of the prison, plotting and planning, etc. He is still writing to my mother trying to influence her to send him money again, but I think he has given up on me or his brothers corresponding with him.
I’m almost convinced there is nothing such as an EX-convict, though I know there must be a few who “reform”—
Dear Free. I have to say it – your comments mirrored my experience almost exactly! I had much the same experience and I can say, without going into detail, that it was an extremely frustrating annoying experience, basically designed to mind ….. you!! All I can say is that my ex made no overtones to me to start with for a long time, then when we got into things which was awkward. Then he had 3 months of impotence, saying it was a health problem – I kept asking him whether he really fancied me, because I ‘SENSED’ at that stage that things were offkey and weird. He liked alot of thrills and spills, but I realised that he was limiting his behavior, i.e. he was ignoring my requests, saying he didnt feel comfortable with certain aspects, thereby keeping me at arms length. When he got his health problem sorted, things did get better, but were punctuated by him ‘going off the boil’. He was constantly telling me that I was too demanding, and that sex was more important to me than to him. Eventually I cottoned onto the fact that not only was he flirting with women at work – and he was telling me, by texting me that he felt aroused at work, I suddenly realised that it was not because of me!! Another thing he did quite frequently was to tease me, saying he was going to fulfill my requests and then coming over and falling asleep on the settee or sitting up to the early hours watching tv or porn – sound familiar Free?? It was all a way of using sex as a power tool. How unfair and unkind. I have to say that on one of our breaks I cheated on him, because I met up with a ‘normal’ man who made me realised that I was not losing the plot.!!
Then as his final weapon, he deliberately left sexual text messages to these other work women on a phone he borrowed from me on purpose in order to orchestrate the quick exiting of our relationship. As he had so many mobile phones, at least 12, I wondered why he was wanting to borrow my old old phone. It was obvious that he had different women, and they were all married, at different levels of play. I rang one of them up, but she denied everything, even though I had the txt messsages.
I think another important part of the self gratification that Free mentioned is realizing that nothing is more important than feeding that existence, nothing, period, and they will forsake all else and they will use anyone else in that pursuit. They become as addicted to their behavior as the drug addict is to the drug, so their choices, and they do choose, become predictable. And right or wrong is insignificance in lieu of need.
I also think, just like drug use or alcoholism, that what started in the beginning as pleasure becomes not just wanting, but needing even with the absence of the original pleasure. That is the cycle of addiction that we become a part of.
First you must become aware of their addiction without seeing any “needles” and then you must become aware that someone who is so convincingly saying I love you is really saying I need you and I want to use you which flies in the face of everything real to you. No wonder this is so difficult to understand until you’ve been “educated.”
Tmassar, I don’t feel disgust for the person either, just for the behavior. But I refuse to allow that behavior to taint what I think is a beautiful thing, human compassion. But we must be compassionate from a distance because of their choices not ours, and we must learn as others expand their boundaries that we do not contract ours, and that doesn’t lessen our compassion for others, but it is doing the best we can do for ourselves and for them. Tough lesson. OxD for you that person is your own child, and NC with him must be the epitome of tough love.
Benzthere,
When my kids were young, I practiced what I thought was “tough” love, was consistent with discipline, etc. when they were young, but when the P-ush came to shove, I let him suck me in to the fantasy of his “reform”—because it was what I wanted to believe, just like the rest of you, I let my P-XBF do the same, because I was needy after my husband died. I honestly don’t think it was any “tougher” with my P-son than with anyone you loved that betrayed you–betrayal of love is betrayal of love. Period. It causes pain and pain is pain…little or big, it fills our being, takes over our lives and souls if we let it.
NC with ANY one you love is difficult, but it is the only way to survive with a P. Otherwise they suck you dry.
“whatever steps we can each take to enlighten society while making the best choices we can to protect our own, brings us one step closer toward change and the self satisfaction of our ultimate goal of living well in spite of them.”
Maybe he will molest our son and maybe he won’t, I really agree that I cannot see into the future. If I could, I wouldn’t be in this situation. I think what my friend was saying, is that you take that risk with everyone. I totally agree. And, before I found out the hard way that he was a sociopath, I never would have assumed that because he was molested as a child that he would automatically become a molester as an adult. (if he even really was molested as a child). But, the whole “sociopath” diagnosis, really frightens me. It puts a whole new spin on all the warning signs. Being the sociopath that he is, if he gets the urge to do it, there is nothing in his brain to stop him from acting on it. It would be a game of Russian Roulette allowing my son into his hands.
tmassar
“Which is probably just going to be more of the same.”
This I agree because basally this applies to all of us. What will in the end define us is our choices that we make in life and from those choices how we lived our lives. It is not what we believe that defines us but the choices we make concerning our beliefs.
Do sociopaths make choices? Yes only because each one of us chooses each day!
They range from simple choices to very complicated ones.
Like will I work today?
Will I go shopping today?
Will I marriage h/her?
Will I divorce?
One of my favorites saying to my children and my ex-P (as well as myself) is:
“What we choice today will define what happens tomorrow.”
One quote from one of our fore fathers Ben Franklin:
“Experience is a dear teacher, and only fools will learn from no other.”
Again do Sociopaths make choices? Yes..
Was it a good or bad “choice”? That depends on the chooser from what s/he believes is “good’ or “bad”…
Did what happen base on this “choice” give me what I wanted? Again all base on the receiver of this choice.
What did I learn from making this choice, was it good or bad?
Again base on the receiver’s point of view (experience)
Thiefs who got caught stealing will learn two things.
“That stealing is wrong and how much more it hurts myself and other people” (An honest person)
Then this person may choose not to steal again..
“It was wrong for them to catch me! I will learn to be more careful next time” (A dishonest person)
Then this person may choose just to be more careful next time they steal again..
The only different that I see in the choose is what did we learn from it? Again, this will always depend on the receivers of that choose….