Since Lovefraud launched in 2005, I’ve collected 2,850 cases—people who have contacted me to tell me about their experiences with a sociopath. In nearly 100 of these cases—3.4%—the person who contacted me was not actually the victim, but was a friend or family member who was trying to pry the victim away from the sociopath. For example, here’s an email that Lovefraud recently received:
I have a sister-in-law who is dating a married man, who claims he will be getting a divorce, which is still yet to happen. Now she’s pregnant with his kid so things are more serious. They were supposed to move out together a couple months ago, but when the day came he disappeared, then a couple weeks later she found out she was pregnant by him then they were in contact again. Anyways, they went ahead and got an apartment again, which he’s not living in because he is still living with his wife, so it’s a come and go when he pleases”¦ He’s using her! This is not his first child out of wedlock, in fact, he has no contact with the other one and he has now cheated on his wife six times! All these red flags, and all she does is cover up for him. I’ve noticed she’s been depressed and been doing irresponsible things with her health as a result of this guy! Everyone also bluntly tells her that she’s basically his whore, so she knows how everyone feels. What do I do to open her eyes?
Lovefraud’s standard advice in this situation is that there isn’t much someone else can do—it’s up to the person who is involved with a sociopath to open her own eyes and see what is going on. In order to break away, the victim must feel, and own, the negative emotions associated with being controlled and/or abused. This will spark the victim’s desire to get out.
The best thing loved ones can do is stay in contact with the victim, because the sociopath will try to isolate him or her. Friends and loved ones should be emotionally supportive of the individual, but not supply material support, such as money or a place to live. The idea, essentially, is to wait it out, and then, when the relationship crashes and burns, be there to pick up the pieces.
Dr. Liane Leedom explained this approach in her article, “How can I get my _____ away from the psychopathic con artist?”
I’ve sent many, many people the link to that article. But every time I do, it is so dissatisfying. Isn’t there anything a loved one can do?
I understand that people become deeply bonded to sociopaths, especially when they are emotionally and physically intimate, and more especially when they are pregnant. I wrote a whole chapter in my new book, Red Flags of Love Fraud, that explains exactly how this happens. Chapter 6 is called “Sociopathic sex and bonding,” and it explains the psychology and biology of how this powerful psychological love bond is formed.
Here’s a chapter by chapter summary of the book.
Still, I don’t like the idea of just waiting around the victim hits bottom. Sometimes, by the time that happens, the victim is so broken that there is no recovery. And sometimes, when the victim hits bottom, she is dead.
So, I ask Lovefraud readers: Have you ever conducted a successful intervention? If you were the friend or family member of someone in the clutches of a sociopath, were you able to get him or her out? How? Or, if you were the person bonded to the sociopath, did anyone ever do or say anything that gave you the strength to leave?
If anything works, please let us know. I’d love to be able to offer more heartening suggestions.
G1S and witty, tell me this, does Al-anon stress staying with the alcoholic/abuser and “coping” or does it stress GET OUT!?
My egg donor’s brother, my Uncle Monster was a VERY physically abusive alcoholic, his mother was a big time enabler, daughter of a very abusive alcoholic, (and on back to a man born in 1800) from a family with collateral members consisting of 3 generations in a row of murder/suicides….Uncle Monster was apparently a monster from at least age 7 (tried to smother his new born baby sister) His mother covered it up as he continued to try to smother her (until she was unconscious) “because if his daddy knew he would spank him and he might run away from home” Eventually daddy found out when he was 14 and busted his ass and taht was the end of smothering his sister, but he shortly got to abusing GFs and wives.
He would periodically go to AA and his wife to Al Anon until he would start drinking again. Frequent separations then divorce when wife finally left him for good. He always seemed to find a live in GF that would “play the game” though. He was very charming when he was sober. Good looking as well.
He never seemed to ahve “courage” to abuse when he was sober, only when he was drunk and NEVER anyone who would stand up to him. My egg donor stood up to hmm until her mother died, then she took over the FAMILY ROLE OF FAMILY ENABLER…and then started INSISTING THAT I ASSUME THAT ROLE.
When I refused to assume the role she punished me, then picked another candidate (my P-DIL) but that didn’t work as the DIL stole money from her and was going to skip town after murdering my son C. The murder plot fizzled though and DIL went to jail for the attempt. Then egg donor tried to recruit me for the role again, but I was no longer willing to play the part, and there are no more candidates for the role so the play has closed as soon as she departs this earth.
The 3-handed game of RESCUER–VICTIM–PERSECUTER way my family’s way of doing business….I never saw that these roles are interchangable and that each person can play all 3 or any one or two that are their “favorites” It is like a game of musical chairs. Dr. Eric Berne’s book “games people play” was the thing that tipped me off. though it took me years/decades to really put it into practice.
Hey guys, my favorite topic. 🙂 Oxy, alanon stresses neither. They decline to have an opinion, however both programs stress not making any important decisions within the first year…unless of course there is abuse and dnager is at hand.
I am what they call a double winner. I suffer from both diseases, however, there are some authorities who believe that codependancy is at the root of chemical addictions. One wrote that she is convinced that if you scratch the surface of an alcoholic, you’ll find a co-dependant underreith. I know I was co-dedendant long before I was alcoholic. I had to treat both diseases at the same time…not an easy task.
G1S, may I make one observation, (in the spirit of recovery)?
You said that you found that you were one whose family relations didn’t necissarily get better simply as a result of your recovery…then you said it was because you were dealing with a spath and were trying to perscribe the wrong medicine…no, no, no. Giirl, what happened to the three C’s? I can’t cure it, I can’t control it and I can’t cause it? The inevitability of things getting better isn’t because someone else get’s better, it’s because I get better. I get saner and focus on myself. I don’t buy into the chaos of another’s disease. I personally think that alanons principals work very well when dealing with spathy…because I think alcoholics exhibit a lot of spathy qualities. I think some are full-blown spaths, and some are secondary spaths, (meaning that they hve aquired spathy qualitys after they became alcoholic. AA’s 12 steps are designed to nip these behaviors in the bud. Even the big book talks about the alcoholics selfishness and desire to run the show. It clearly states that alcohol is just a symptom of the disease. Like you said, G1S, it never names the disease, but aknowledges that it is physical, mental, and spiritual.
Thanks for bringing up the topic. Detachment is a powerful tool for all of us.
Oh, and just to be clear: If an alcoholic is a full blown spath, they will always be a full blown spath. They may fake it, but they’ll never recover from that. On the other hand, “many (alcoholics) do recover, if they have the capacity to be honest…”
Kim, I have known I think more people who were BIG AA MEMBERS who were dry drunks than I have known who really “got it” and not only stopped drinking but stopped doing bad things…in fact, most of those people didn’t seem to be “BIG AA” members but they may have attended AA regularly if you get my drift. It was those who were BIG SHOT AA members that were the dry drunks (psychopaths). What is your observation on this?
Kimmie, I’d like to tell you just how PROUD OF YOU I am! A big TOWANDA girlfriend! You have made so much progress since we met here on LF and getting your independence back is a HUGE STEP for you. I know not all jobs are great but they do give us that independence that we can’t get any other way.
Catch me up on the family situation…how is that going?
BIG HUGS!!!!
Thanks, Oxy.
Family is good. I tolerate my blow-hard SIL…try to keep my distance as much as I can.
They moved into town and live only a few blocks away. My daughter’s XMIL had a crisis and was kicked out of her life long home by spathy brothers lying against her…accusing her of elder abuse. She was her aging mother’s constant care-taker. Her mother got sick and ended up in the hospital. She is in her 90’s and probably won’t live much longer. Brothers manipulated her into signing documentation that claimed abuse. Daughter’s XMIL was confronted by police on her doorstep and told to leave, not return or she would be arrested.
This was, IMO, a way of getting her out of the house so the brothers could take over, and when their Mother passes, be free to sell the house.
There is a lot of disfunction in this family system. For instance XMIL was married for 20 years, but only lived with her husband a few years…she went home to her mother…and rather than encouraging her to find her independance and get a job, her mother enabled and gained by her daughters dependance. Now, at age 54, she’s kicked out of the nest and in a huge crisis…not having worked in 20 years (she helped with her sick and dying father for years, and has been her mother’s caretaker for years, with NO help from spathy brotherrs.
Anyway, she ended up on my daughter’s doorstep. Oh, hell. Can you imagine how my SIL reacted?
He got pretty obnoxious to everybody…but I rea;lize he acts like this when he’s afraid and he’s just trying to defend his territory…but he makes my daughter’s life hell at times.
Anyway, XMIL is living alone for the first time in her life, and under the circumstances she seems to be doing well.
My younger daughter is doing really well. She had twin boys at the end of October, so now has 6 kids between 8 and 5 months. She teaches second grade, so is around children constantly. I don’t know how she does it. It seems that her other problems are not being acted upon at this time.
Hope all is well with you, Oxy. You pretty wild fowers sound lovely.
Kim,
I am so glad to “see” you! I always remember that your post (when I first came here) were rich with AA logic and principles.
It was you who really kind of helped me to understand that so much of what I already knew could apply to so much more than just the alcoholics in my life.
xxxx
Oxy,
Al-Anon doesn’t give advice. It tells members that only each of us, together with our individual Higher Powers (however we choose to name them – and not everybody calls their HPs “God,”) knows what is best for us. It’s very empowering.
We view fixing, rescuing, and controlling as “isms,” counter-productive, dysfunctional behaviors that take the focus off of us working on what isn’t working for us, what we need to change, what we’re missing, and where we need to grow.
We say, “Whenever I point a finger at somebody else, there are three pointing back at me.” In other words, when I get to a place when my you-know-what smells like roses, then I can comment on other people’s behavior.
This isn’t to put ourselves down. It is to put us into perspective. We are neither all bad nor all good. Working to build one’s self-esteem into a healthy, realistic self-esteem is a critical part of our recovery. This includes admitting that we screwed up, taking responsibility, and making amends. That actually imparts a healthy self-respect. We are learning to love ourselves in a healthy way.
While we don’t give advice or tell people what they should do, we can offer suggestions and our “experience, strength, and hope,” such as, “Know what I found helpful? When I was in a similar situation, I did X…” or “I remember hearing somebody in that predicament. What worked for that person was X. Maybe that might help you?”
Ultimately, though, each person is responsible for his or her actions and is empowered to make the decisions that are best at that moment.
If things don’t work out, then it’s “progress not perfection.” We can only work by the light and knowledge that we have at the time.
It is true that we are discouraged from making any major decisions for at least one year of recovery. That’s because we are going to change so much if we are truly “working our program,” but if we are in physical and/or psychological danger, then first things first.
There is nothing heroic or healthy staying in a relationship that is a threat or dangerous. That’s foolish. In fact, if you go to Al-Anon’s website, it will tell you to protect yourself and the children NOW.
However, it doesn’t follow that a person should divorce. We don’t know what is going on in a person’s life or the people that they are involved with. Sometimes, and I’ve seen this happen, really horrible relationships can change, improve, and reconcile because everyone involved is willing to put in the effort.
Al-Anon frowns upon martyrdom. Some people get off on the drama of, “Look at what he put me through. I need to work two jobs to … Look at what I have to endure. Look at what the kids did to me.” That’s crap. (I call it “pitypot-itis.”) That’s someone who isn’t interested in pulling his or her weight. That’s somebody who is milking the situation for the attention. Somebody like that has very low self-esteem. They haven’t realized yet that people will respect them and like them without them needing to throw themselves on some kind of altar of sacrifices.
Kim! I love talking recovery. Big hugs to you!!!
Oh, the 3 Cs helped me BIG TIME. They got me to separate from their insanity and endless guilt trips. They helped me to detach. I could step back and stop accepting blame because I knew that I had done nothing to cause anything to happen. But, I am only one side of the equation.
What I said was “the family situation didn’t improve” such as turning into a Normal Rockwell fantasy and everybody was going to love and respect each other.
Me, I improved very much. I gave up my expectations and began accepting people and their behavior as they presented themselves. I learned to choose healthier people and relationships.
As I got healthier, things actually deteriorated with my family far beyond the usual pushback to put the family’s dysfunctional mobile back into balance.
I tell newcomers not to expect to be on the alcoholic’s Christmas card list. Us changing and improving doesn’t bring admiration and kudos from certain quarters, although I had friends, when I casually mentioned that maybe I’ve had enough of Al-Anon and would stop going, urgently say, “Um, no. Please don’t do that. Keep going. You seem to be getting so much out of it.” Lordy, I must have been bad.
My family didn’t like that I wasn’t failing. They didn’t like that I was having successes socially and professionally. I wasn’t running to them for their advice and opinions. I could not only make decisions on my own, but I was making sound and wise ones with good results.
They didn’t like that people were complimenting me and my personality and my son’s.
In particular, my P sister didn’t like that people were praising how nice, likeable, and polite my son was turning out while nobody could stand being around first-class B of a daughter. Imagine a narcissist needing to step aside while other people got the praise!
She took the comments as negatives on her parenting skills, which did actually factor heavily into how her daughter was growing up. When my niece got diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, both my mother and sister actually admitted that my sister’s methods for raising my niece played a part in how she turned out.
Things finally came to a head when the two of them teamed up, called everybody that they could think of to discredit me, and went to court and got temporary custody of my son. The outcome was that my sister admitted in writing that she knew no emergency existed (she lied, in other words) and had no legal standing to anything that she did. We also got a permanent restraining order on her.
Now, they’re stalking my son. My mother is calling my ex-husband in England to trash me. They are out of their minds. So, we’ll never have a Norman Rockwell family, but my son and I are thriving and very happy.
And Oxy, just so you know, Al-Anon talks about alcoholics being “little gods.” We are very aware, as Kim said, of the narcissistic tendencies and it’s never their fault; it’s always somebody else’s.
Oxy,
Al-Anon is neutral.
If you are ready and willing to be open to take it in….To really listen and learn…..I would say that Al-Anon gives you the tools to do whatever YOU NEED to do.
You can get your sanity back. And start to heal one day at a time.
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change.
Many people go to Al-Anon meetings hoping to learn how to “change” the alcoholic!
Al-Anon focuses on how we are sick also. (codependent) And it teaches us how to focus on ourselves and our recovery.
It is my opinion that is why many people stop coming to Al-Anon meetings after attending just a few meetings.
Because so many of us have been focusing SO MUCH on the alcoholic in our lives. It is hard to understand in the begining that this is NOT about them. NOW it is about the willingness to take a look at ourselves.
At the end of both AA And Al-Anon meetings many groups hold hands and one of the last things that eveyone says to each other is “keep coming back, it works if you WORK it”.
The big book of AA (the AA bible as it is sometimes referred as) is a very interesting read. I think EVERYONE should read it.
Thanks Kimmie and G1S I really would like to learn more about AA and Alanon. Just never had the time/energy at the same time to do it. I think many of the principles are what I also believe.
As much as I fight against it my knee jerk fall back position is enabler and I’m working on that. Not actually “practicing” enabling now, but because I have kept myself away from people who want me to enable them. LOL (that’s one way to handle it) Being a hermit does have its advantages. LOL
G1S Erin Brock’s x husband and her own parents kidnapped her kids too while she was recovering from a stroke AND cancer at the same time…she had no idea where they were. She is NC with those parental units now too. They also told everyone taht she was FAKING the stroke and the cancer. Funny thing though, now her maternal parental unit has the same kind of cancer she was “faking.”
Isn’t it amazing just how PUNISHING our FOOs can be if we don’t toe the family line, take the assigned role in the family play? It is really unbelievable just how far they will go to keep us in line.
I had at times in the past gone NC with my egg donor, for up to a year, so when I went NC this time she didn’t really think it would “stick” and she has tried several times to get me to knuckle under, but not going to do so. When my son Patrick was about 16 he was getting in trouble with the law and I couldn’t control him, he kicked in a couple of ribs so I was going to call the law and he ran, to her house. She took him in against my will….I didn’t have the money or energy at the time to fight her in court in another state so was NC with them both until he was getting in trouble with the law there and about to get caught so he wanted all of a sudden to come home to my house in another state from hers…so I ended up falling for it (not knowing of course why he so suddenly wanted to come home) and of course I “forgave” her (pretended it didn’t happen) LOL
She has made excuses to see me a couple of times, and put on the pity act but so far except for a few phone convrsations and e mails about business…it has been pretty much NC…she did sucker me in once to get information about my son C…and I was so mad at myself I could have BOINKED myself a couple of good ones with the cast iron skillet—the real one, not the cyber one! Oh, ,I was furious for getting sucked into giving her the information she wanted. I figure though she is waiting until she gets sick to “send for me” to her bedside. I hope she doesn’t hold her breath though.
I agree with Witty.
People stop going to Al-Anon because they don’t want to hear that they’re possibly doing anything wrong and they want to learn how to “fix” the alcoholic, i.e., make the alcoholic stop drinking, grow up, and take responsibility. That’s not for us to do. That’s what the alcoholic needs to learn to do.
One reason some AAs view Al-Anons as the bad guys is because if they get into trouble and land in jail, we won’t bail them out. They need to get themselves out. If it’s a minor child, that’s a different matter, but with adults, we let them take the consequences for their actions and decisions.
Witsend is also right that Al-Anon is neutral. At least it’s supposed to be.
There are some people as well as some of the groups that are “sicker than others.” I warn newcomers that if they encounter anyone who comes forward offering to tell them what they “need” to do to or how to handle the alcoholic to run in the other direction. Nobody knows what somebody else needs. These people should be focusing on themselves.
In time, a person can choose a sponsor, but that should be that member’s choice and not a “rescuer’s” or “fixer’s” decision.
Sometimes, a group, a.k.a. “a meeting,” is an amplified version of a sick, alcoholic dynamic. For instance, the controllers will take over and dominate while those who are used to being controlled will sit in awe and do whatever they’re told to do. You get a group of these people together and they can end up worse than what you’re encountering in your personal life.
I went to a meeting once where everything was going well until the very end when the topic person announced, “OK, everybody take out their notebooks now to write down next week’s assigment.” Say what?? Al-Anon doesn’t have homework and it certainly does not give assignments.
We also don’t have leaders. We have “trusted servants” who perform certain functions so the group can operate, but they are not in a position of power. At least they shouldn’t be, but it happens that people abuse that trust.
The collective wisdom of the group, demonstrated by discussion and voting and unseen guidance from the group’s Higher Power, is called the “group conscience.” That is what should be making the decisions, but sadly, there are far too many that want to be seen as a “big person” and will present themselves as the boss. That’s another “ism” and subject for a very long discussion.
Anyway, getting back to the homework assigner, she then got into my face and demanded, “Tell us what your problem is so we can fix it for you.”
That’s the worst example that I have ever encountered of a very sick meeting (group.) Naturally, I never went back.
The nice thing about Al-Anon is there are no progress charts. There is no set pace to get anything done by. we don’t “should” on people.
You might hear that somebody is “on Step X,” but for the more seasoned members, we know that “doing the Steps” is not a linear thing. There are even members who think once they’ve reached Step 12, they’ve done all the work. Ha! The Steps are more like a circular staircase that never ends. As you grow in recovery, the Steps take on new meaning.
I was terrified of Step Four, taking a moral and fearless inventory of myself. I was convinced that I was supposed to own up to the miserable excuse for a human being that my family had me convinced that I was. I cried the first time I could admit that at a meeting. Not true at all, but I dodged that Step literally for years.
On bad or difficult days, you keep returning to the Step (and/or Slogan) that you need.
People can study the Steps in order, which is recommended, but as for how “which Step” we’re “doing,” we’ve all lost count how many times we’ve been brought back to Step One, i.e., that we are powerless over alcohol and our lives have become unmanageable.
The bottom line? You get what you need when you need it.
Don’t worry if you missed something. “Just for today” do what you can.