For the past several years Donna and I have attended the Battered Mothers Custody Conference and so we have been able to interact with domestic violence experts. Both of us were surprised to discover that although most of the worst spousal assault perpetrators have personality profiles indicative of sociopathy/psychopathy this fact is not recognized by many experts.
I have worked to become well acquainted with the scientific literature regarding intimate partner violence because I teach psychology of gender and because I very much want to understand why people who should know better often fail to diagnose sociopathy in perpetrators. This failure to diagnose has lead to intimate partner violence being erroneously interpreted as a gender issue related to male domination of females. This flies in the face of the real statistics which show that there are equal numbers of female perpetrators. The failure to recognize personality disturbance in female perpetrators has lead to male victims being further traumatized.
I am happy to report that the leading expert on intimate partner violence, Professor Donald Dutton of the University of British Columbia is fighting to correct the above misconceptions and to help people understand that domestic violence is perpetrated by disordered men and women.
In 1979, he cofounded the Assaultive Husbands Project, a court-mandated treatment program for men convicted of spousal assault. He has frequently served as an expert witness in civil trials involving intimate abuse and in criminal trials involving family violence. Dr. Dutton has published over 100 papers and four books, including Domestic Assault of Women, The Batterer: A Psychological Profile, Rethinking Domestic Violence and The Abusive Personality Violence and Control in Intimate Relationships.
I just finished reading The Abusive Personality and recommend it highly. In this book Dr. Dutton details the profile and personality structure of both male and female batterers. He makes a compelling case for his contention that personality disturbance is behind domestic violence in Western society. Next week I will summarize the personality profile of “Abusers” and explain how abuse relates to sociopathy/psychopathy.
Dear Oxy,
I read as often as I can but comment little. Often someone says what I am thinking anyway, being in the same “boat” as we are in many ways.
I just had to let you know, you make me laugh again with your comment about the lottery sized chances of a P keeping their word…and might I add “of telling the truth.”
Regarding your accidental meeting at the store…I don’t know if the same thing occured that happens for me, but it seems like even when I don’t mean to or think I want to I end up talking about my ex and experiences. It’s like its always just below the surface waiting to burst out. Then I’m left wondering what kind of backlash it may cause. Maybe it’s because the N/S ex and I have children together and he and his new victim/wife live only 1/2 mile from me so there is always new info from my kids/in my face to feed the fire. But honestly, I don’t know if that’s the cause or if it would be this way anyway.
Do you think survivors of trauma, like natural disasters, for example, experience the same thing? Does it fade with time? Is it a normal part of PTSD? He’s been out of the house for over 5 years and it’s been 2 years since the divorce but, like I said, he’s still right there in our comunity.
Dear Escaped,
My egg donor lives on the SAME FARM I do, but her house is out of sight of mine unless I go out on the hill in the pasture (a half mile away) I seldom see anyone who knows her and/or the story, or that I WOULD tell the “while truth” to, but it just so happened I ran into this couple and I decided on the spot to just be truthful rather than a “social” response of “Fine, I’m sure.”
I’m not sure that it will turn out any good thing, but it MIGHT but if not I will not be too disappointed. I just try to use every opportunity for my safety that presents itself. I was, I think, more “disturbed” by this than I felt after a couple of hours of thinking about it, (thus the not being able to turn my head off thinking about it and to go to sleep) However after talking about this with my sons and with a friend who “gets it” I am going to go ahead and persue it, but not have any expectations that it will “work.”
I’m sure glad I idon’t have kids with one, you might try logging on to Dr. Leedom’s blog about “raising the at risk child” and might get some good imput from there since there are others like yourself dealing with these co-parents (LOL) I can’t even imagine having to have your children associate with that creep. (((hugs))))
Oh, Oxy, I didn’t realize you were on the same farm! I have kind of the same situation here. The ex is 1/2 mile away in separate neighborhood but his mother is next door to me. They are the proverbial tree and nut that didn’t fall far from it, even though he is adopted. We are on one acre lots, but still…it’s too close. Her bedroom window blinds are always up just a couple of inches so she can spy. I think it’s funny because there is never anything to see but then, untrustworthy people always seem to be the most distrustful and pessimistic. Perhaps that should be one of the “red flags” to pay attention to. But then, maybe not because victims end up distrustful as well.
Thanks for the suggestion about Dr. Leedom’s blog, I’ll check that out. And, thanks for responding back. I always appreciate reading your wisdom. You have been through so much and yet focus so much on helping everyone else here and being there for all. You are a strong woman and a true, caring person.
Put your communication with the minister in God’s hands and get some sleep!
(((hugs back!)))
Escaped
Dear Escaped,
QUOTE: “Put your communication with the minister in God’s hands and get some sleep! ”
That’s what I intend to do–would love to take a nap this afternoon but if I do, won’t sleep tonight, so will tough it out til then.
Living next door to your X-MIL must be fun! NOT!!! LOL
I’m glad you appreicate my rambling (and rants! LOL) I hope that even if I don’t always PRACTICE what I “preach,” that people will do as I SAY, not necessarily as I DO! LOL
Learning what I “ought” to do or “should” do is a long process when I have thought “x” all my life and realize NOW THAT X IS WRONG!!! so I iam having to take it one day at a time, one “should” being reexamined at a time. Learning new ways of coping, learning better ways to act and react. Isn’t always easy, and really there is NOT an “end” to learning (I hope) in sight because I always quit before I got to the “good part” which I am feeling that I am approaching now, as I “weed” my garden of the thorns and prickly pear cactus. sometimes it even hurts to grasp them and pull them out of the “garden” but once they are out, they don’t multiply, so just gritting your teeth and hanging on as you pull them out (hopefully once and for all) will make it easier to weed in the future.
Hope Dr. Leedom’s site is helpful to you. (((hugs)))
Oxy,
That was one of my Dad’s “Dadisms” as I like to call them. “Do as I say, not as I do.” He has a million of them and always laughs when I call them “Dadisms” now. 🙂
On the other note, what we should do…
Thanks to this site and much ongoing education, learning boundries and new coping and protective styles, I’ve learned lots of new “shoulds.” I have, however noted that sometimes what we know intellectually and how we feel emotions and react to them don’t always connect. That is the ongoing assignment for me, remembering what I’ve learned and utilizing it when I need it. I suspect, that is going to be a lifelong assignment. I mean really…have you ever weeded anything that stayed weeded? LOL I wonder if they sell mulch to put on our thought and behavior patterns to keep the weeds from growing back?
I am using these techniques for the p art teacher. I WILL SEE IF THEY WORK:
They are an abbreviation of what KATHY TAUGHT ME:
TILLYS 12 STEPS TO GET HER DEGREE IN VIZUAL MEDIA AND FINE ART:
1. Involve yourself to a minimum and keep your thoughts to yourself.
2.Turn off the availability of information from ME, except to attend to the BUSINESS of the art class.
3. NO information whatsoever about my FEELINGS.
4:NO opinions that could give her INFO of what is in MY mind.
5. “Please The Idiot ” strategy (i.e. mirroring and reflecting her and affirming her).
6:Talk about neutral things SHE LIKES TO TALK ABOUT: e.g. shopping, how great her shopping looks on her, how broke she is, how her car doesn’t go, how she should have a new one, how brave she is for driving her car,traffic, how amazing she is etc.
7:When she ask personal questions: DEFLECT!!
8:My “emergency out”= laugh whilst saying “why do you want to know”.
9:Smile at her “nicely” a lot.
10: N.B. ALWAYS REMEMBER that sociopaths LIKE EASY MARKS, and NOT OTHER SOCIOPATHS.
11.Predict and EXPECT her continual EFFORTS to get an EMOTIONAL CONTROL/HOLD over you.
12: If all else fails do NOT HESITATE, to drop the course.
ErinB:
Now I get it…I am not AT UNI to get my degree in Art at all. I am in uni to get my PHD in dealing with psychopaths. Well, I wish God had told me that about two years ago! I like the title of that marie Jo’s book…”getting it thru my thick skull”…sometimes quickly sometimes slowly.xo
Tilly,
That is a great list of 12 “steps”—-I think you can do it!!! Her ein the US one of the cell phone companies has an ad with this huge group of “support” people called “the network” standing behind each user—so think of us as your NETWORK there in the class with you and if you have a problem visualize me BOINKING her on the head with my cyber skillet, or visualize her NEEKID and standing there like the emperor and just tell her how BEAUTIFUL HER NEW OUTFIT IS!!!!
Turn it back on her, like you said, like a mirror that reflects her OWN OPINION OF HERSELF!!!
IT ISN’T FOREVER, YOU CAN DO IT!!!! (((HUGS))))
The article does have some really great research and analysis which Dr. Donald Dutton has published. He is one of several psychologists I trust in regards to DV research, analysis and info. However, the author still misses some points and thus ends up with some DV/mental illness contradictions.
This and many articles by others could be better if those inconsistencies were corrected, and additional complementary and critically related facts were included, linking mental illness with DV (domestic violence). It’s too bad that so many top fathers’ and men’s advocates likewise often miss the mark on this too. That is a bit like radical, one-sided, abusive DV feminists often do, but not nearly as bad, nor for the same fraudulent and abusive intent and parasitic reasons. Hmmm, sociopathology, narcissism or maybe axis I mental illness there too?
OK, here is what this article and too many fathers’ and men’s advocates miss, and choke on:
First, women do not in fact commit nearly equal or equal amounts of DV as men do. Women rule, they commit and initiate more. Yes, more. http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bal-op.mcnair16jul16,0,5844465.story
True equality-based studies repeatedly and predominantly show that women commit more dating and domestic violence than men do. Only a smaller number of unequal, bogus, limited, manipulated or cherry-picked studies do not show a semblance of this very well documented real life phenomenon.
Also, please do note that DV conviction stats show the opposite of reality as well, that mostly men and fathers are convicted of DV crimes. Since this directly and strongly contradicts all those studies, prosecution stats only and solely reflect a deep and abusive bias, negative and abusive profiling and hatred of men, fathers and families by said “justice” system and associated DV Industry. Period.
Who notices that this also really hurts women and especially children too when you look at the full picture. You can’t lie about, crush and abuse dad without exploiting, crushing and abusing the whole family, especially the kids.
Why are fathers’ and men’s advocates avoiding or missing some of these critical truths and facts? The most solid stats and studies show that mothers commit far more child abuse and murder their own children considerably more than fathers do. This is even confirmed by HHS stats, a govt agency which is ironically anti-male, anti-father, spoken from their own mouths. They do infact admit those condemning facts of abuse and murders by mothers. But, when addressed on these stats which they collect, they admit it, but turn it right around by blaming fathers for the fact that we have so many abusive and murderous moms. Yes, they say these abusive mothers are the fault of fathers. Of course their first preference is to simply avoid discussion of this fact which they try to hide anyway. It shoots down their agenda.
So, they mean that women aren’t responsible for their own actions? How convenient, for HHS, associated feminists and their many anti-family associates too. Why do so many men’s and fathers’ advocates join them by failing to point all of this out? Another free pass given to violent women by feminists, attorneys and by men’s and fathers’ advocates?
Good psychologists who closely study and follow DV and mental illness patterns also know very well that women suffer more mental illness than men do. This of course perfectly matches the fact that mental illness ussually coincides with DV, and all those stats and studies showing who commits and initiates most of it.
How do so many miss these glaring interlocking facts? I’m sure Dr. Donald Dutton hasn’t missed these facts. Even the supremacist anti-male variety of DV feminists know and use this latter fact (women suffer more mental illness) for leverage against men, by using lies to compliment it of course. These feminists and their abusive male cohorts contend that women have more mental illness than men due to “oppression and abuse of women by men.”
Oh, what a big surprise again? Women and mothers aren’t accountable for any of their own actions, no matter who does what? That’s a huge insult to women and mothers, accusing them of “being so incompetent that they can’t be held accountable for anything they do wrong.” Real women are very offended by that offensive assumption against women’s competance in general.
Ironically and likewise related to this is the fact that these certain feminists and their attorney pals of the DV/Divorce Industry constantly hammer the point out that a parent who abuses their kids is more likely to abuse their spouse, and vice versa, as they naturally assume men are the cause and root of all ills anyway…
When we put all the facts together, we should fully agree with that point, that those who abuse spouse are more likely to abuse child, because of what most solid data shows on this: Most real stats and studies point at women having more mental illness and also abusing their children most and also abusing their spouses most. How can we help anyone whom WE are denial about and hide the facts about???
It all fits very nicely, unless we aren’t aware, or simply ban some of the critical facts with mental illness and DV. Changing or softening these facts does a serious disservice to men, women, children and every last member of society.
Remember, all the abusive men and women combined still don’t add up to the total abuse of men, women, children and everyone by the very abusive and parasitic DV/Divorce Industry.
The worst abusers and predators have always historically hunted in packs.
thanks-
Tom Miller
Advocate for victims of mental illness, and their families. Advocate for victims of abuse (men, women and children), especially the most plentiful victims of all, victims of the DV/Divorce Industry.
Tom Miller- I have looked at the mssg you posted- I am more than alittle disturbed about the comments made here.
I am NOT a “supremist anti male variety of DV feminist” as you mentioned, BUT IF ‘violent women are given a free pass by feminists, attys and mens advocate groups as you posted- SURELY you must admit that violent men certainly are given FREE PASSES by court sytems by the pathetically poor protection and lack of help for many women/children , as well. Especially when REAL EVIDENCE is there to prove ONE SIDED domestic violence.
I know of the lack of protection, laxodasical attitudes of the judges/officials who cry about overloaded case loads, and the yawns from “hearing it all day long…” Seems like a lot of perps are “given a free pass”- many to someone elses demise or detriment.
I have lived this scenerio as many of us here have! A “slap on the wrist” of repeat violent perps is my experience and of MANY others – Have you read this site?? The vast majority of victims are women and children. I quite frankly dont need twisted statistics to prove this, but I will state a few.
Not to say women dont commit these crimes- Absolutely they do.
I realize your topic here, but am offended that you as an “advocate” for “victims of abuse: men, women, AND children, say that “women and mothers (due to the mental illness comments you mentioned afore) ARE NOT accountable for any of their actions, no matter what? -WHERE DO YOU GET THAT? Have you checked populations of womens prisons?
Your other comment- “real women are very offended by the offensive assumption against womens compentance.” You being male- is this merely your opinion?
I am a real woman- NO convictions of any kind, no mental illness, business owner, mother of 2, AND I SAY- REAL WOMEN WANT REAL JUSTICE- whether it be from DV of female OR male perpetrators. Your comment “of Good psychologists who closely study and follow DV mental illness know very well women suffer more mental illness….. all those stats and studies showing who commits most of it.
Also your comment speaking of those who …naturally assume men are the cause and root of all ills any way…
Are you sure Tom Miller that you do not feel women are the root and cause of all evil? Your biased post impliments this in so many sentences, I cant even re state them all.
Here are some statistics I would like noted, as there are so many others out there I cant begin to list them all. I encourage others here to research on their own as well.
From Scottish Crime Survey- Men less likely to have been repeat victims of DV, less likely to be injured…
WomensAid.org- Over 2 women per week are killed by current partners or x partners (this probally includes male and female violent partners) 40% of female homocide is from violent partner abuse.
Women and Children are the MAJORITY victims of DV over men. Walby and ALLen study “the context of fear is an important element in the understanding of d.v as a pattern of coercive control.”
Scottish CRIME study- Men are less likely to have been repeat victims of DV, and less likely to be injured.
Executive Central Research Unit-
1 in 4 women experience in life some form of abuse-sexual, domestic. Less than half is reported.
Also at the top of this thread it mentions dv not gender specific- Crime statistics show DV IS gender specific- men as perpetrators.
Tom, the site you referred to on your post states to the effect (will not go back and quote verbatum tonite as it is very late) that …when safe to do so both male and female in domestic abuse cases should be looked as a equal perps. WHO decides what is safe and when is it safe to assume both parties are guilty ??? GOOD GOD, dont leave that up to untrained officers/court officials to make that deadly call- esp when one party is stating abuse, and the other isnt – I am so sure if you ask a P if he has been abused- he/she will absolutely say he has!
Oh wait- MY x n/p abuser did that- AFTER my claim of DV. With ZERO evidence, no weapons at scene of crime other than HIS hand prints on my neck and the broken doors to further prove my “lack of participation” in this , His futile claim was immediately discounted. Its a scary thought if the general position of an officer or anyone associated with protecting victims must take the position that Both parties are probally guilty. Hows that for rights? Come on, that attitude is going backwards in accomplishing ANYTHING but bad decisions from those perpetually untrained and unqualified to make them. I think it would be a popular opinion to state that most law officials know very little about P’s and DV combined. THEY ( majority being men abusers) FIGHT TO WIN. Period. I know there are couples who both participate in DV- I dont argue that, but disagree that it is the NORM as the site you mentioned implies (“statistically”).
However IN DEALING WITH A P, IF YOU FIGHT BACK OR INSTIGATE ANYTHING, YOU COULD DIE. IF YOU Dont DO a Darned thing- YOU COULD STILL DIE.
That said, If EVIDENCE of abuse from both parties exists, both should be charged- More importantly children should be protected #1.
Tom, I am disappointed in your lack of neutral and balanced observation of DV. I am sorry to say that I would be very nervous if you were representing me, as a female in any DV case.
Your statement toward the end of your post “women… also abusing their spouses the most” has no real revelance or credability that I have seen, but quite the contrary on EVERY statistic I’ve seen or heard or experienced in the REAL world.
I am sure you think these all came from “anti male varieties” with a “hatred of men” – YOUR DESCRIPTION.
Tonight, I just got out yet another DV court case with my X p
perpetrator, who has received little more than ‘a slap on the wrist” for multiple convictions of violent crimes against me. Should I, in keeping with YOUR assumptions assume the opposite- that “one sided women haters, with deep bias caused this lack of justice? Maybe I’d just be one of those “mental illness” cases , huh?
Your comment- “true equality based studies show that women commit more dating and DV than men do.——
Once again, I dont find it creditable or even smart to give women a “false sense of security” that we are LESS likely to be victims of abuse. Abuse, Tom comes not only in the form of physical, but sexual as well- equally as damaging. Even on that count alone- the male statistic is far below that of a womans.
LF Victims- I am emotionally tied to this subject and have JUST as much concern for male victims and justice therein. However the blatant statements by Tom are not accurate and must be cited as such.