By | July 27, 2009 118 Comments

BOOK REVIEW: Getting It Through My Thick Skull

Finally—the word “sociopath” is being applied to a high-profile case that doesn’t involve a serial killer.

Mary Jo Buttafuoco, wife of Joey Buttafuoco, shot in the head back in 1992 by Amy Fisher, the “Long Island Lolita,” is telling her story. And the first words of the introduction are, “Joey Buttafuoco is a sociopath.”

Getting It Through My Thick Skull—Why I Stayed, What I Learned, and What Millions of People Involved with Sociopaths Need to Know, has just been released. Why did it take Mary Jo 17 years to write the book? Because it was only in 2007 that she realized the truth about Joey Buttafuoco.

Perhaps you remember the case. Mary Jo got shot. The police said her husband was having an affair with her assailant, who was 16 at the time. Joey Buttafuoco denied the affair, and Mary Jo believed him, defended him, and rallied friends and family around him. But the cops were right and she was wrong—her husband was sleeping with the teenager. Then Joey Buttafuoco said it was all Amy Fisher’s fault—and Mary Jo believed him again.

Mary Jo describes the craziness of life with her husband: how he continued to reel her back in, how she coped with the ordeal (she became addicted to painkillers) and how she finally recovered—from the addiction and from Joey. The book is co-written by Julie McCarron, a well-known celebrity collaborator, so it’s an easy read.

Mary Jo Buttafuoco has launched her media tour with an appearance today on Good Morning America. See the coverage:

Mary Jo Buttafuoco speaks out about her ex-husband Joey, the “Sociopath”

Excerpt: Getting It Through My Thick Skull/p>

In her book, this is the message Mary Jo conveys:

I wouldn’t wish marriage or an intimate relationship of any kind to a sociopath on anyone; my hope is that this book will inspire others to “get it” and get out far sooner than I did. I promise there is a great new life on the other side!

Mary Jo actually contacted me when she was starting her book, and we spoke on the phone. Now the book is done, and I hope she gets a lot of publicity. I hope a lot of people buy it—especially people who really don’t understand how many sociopaths are in the world, and what they look like. Maybe, just maybe, this book will be a big step in raising public awareness about sociopaths.

Getting It Through My Thick Skull is available now on

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Read part of the book on GMA this morning – I really hope that people read this and take it seriously. Mary Jo is right when she states that many years ago people didn’t know much about autism, etc. but now they do. My daughter is about to marry one and apparently also has a thick skull. She will have to see for herself, I cannot see it for her. I hope this book will be helpful to a lot of people before they get involved or to be able to leave a sociopath or perhaps finally understand what they went through. It is very difficult when you don’t know why someone acts the way they do – maybe this book will provide the knowledge someone needs.


The Good Morning America clip and the book excerpt, I thought were outstanding. So far Mary Jo is accurate and very believable. It seems Mary Jo has taken the public awareness of her tragic life, and used it to educate others and give a message of hope to those ravaged by a sociopath. Maybe she can bring the public out of the fog. I will follow with great interest how the legal experts digest this. I’m going to buy this book, and I hope she has a best seller.

Thanks to Mary Jo. And as always, thank you Donna, for your own pioneering spirit that continues to enlighten and support so many.


Don’t know much about this one but it could possibly be handbook for how to spot them! Oh Oh I wish I wish I’d been armed with this 5 years ago.

I still have days when, despite all the evidence to the contrary, I think that I was the mad one – though obviously not the person who cheated, lied, manipulated a conned that was the S’s domain.

The thing that seems to defeat alot of us in the healing process (or at least delay our self-forgiveness) seems to be their ability to ‘take us in’ and reel us back – it often seems that so many of us just can’t get beyond how we could have been soooo stupid as not to see this BUT, of course, we were looking at the whole situation through ‘normal’ eyes NOT that of an S/P/N.

Should be a good read and, hopefully, enlightening.


I hope this book opens the path wider for all the writers here on LF! I remember reading this story in the “Womens Weekly” here in Oz. It got a lot of piblicity and painted Mary Jo in a “she must be stupid” light. Its great that she has comeback to have her say and enlighten people to the TRUTH about psychopaths.

So, any mention of Amy Fisher’s possible personality disorder?

True, she was young, selfish, naive, gullible while she was involved with Joey but when I viewed a few interviews with her she showed no remorse, guilt, any form of compassion for Mary Jo, the pain and suffering she caused her.

She was one cold cookie, defiant and I believe totally aware of the extensive damage she had done to Mary Jo yet uncaring.

Wonder where she is today? If she has matured, contemplated the hell she selfishly gave to Mary Jo and is truly contrite, remorseful? Hm.

Ox Drover

I’m glad that Mary Jo finally saw the “light”
AND her name is so recognizable that hopefully enough people will be “curious” and read her book. I think her coming uot with this is a GREAT Thing. At the time all this happened I ithink people did see her as an IDIOT to stay with this creep.

I’m with Jane as well, I think that the “Lolita” was also a personality disordered person, the two of them were durally personality disordered, a “fire and gasoline” relationship, as someone once said.

I think this book will hopefully get the word out and I hope that Mary Jo can get on sxome of the day time TV shows, like Oprah where the word will be further spread along with the NAME OF THIS PROBLEM—-educate the masses!!! TOWANDA Mary Jo!!!!!



Mary Jo actually referred to amy fisher as a ‘narcissist’ on the The View this morning! and, her definition of a sociopath was very simple, accurate and understandable.


I saw Mary Jo on “The View”. Her reason for writing the book, is the same reason that I have been documenting and writing about my 5 1/2 years with a sociopath – to educate others about these toxic people.
Every family member and friend that has asked me why did you stay, how could you let that happen, get over it – move on, etc. is going to get a copy of this book for Christmas. Maybe a little light will be shed about the workings of an S, and why getting out and over it is easier said than done.
Mary Jo – you go girl!! An inspiration for all of us!


For what it’s worth, I think that we are “lumping” toxic people with Sociopaths and that does not serve the public or us in the end. Amy Fischer could not be diagnosed at the time of the shooting simply because she was 16 years old then and personality disorders are not diagnosed at that age.

In one of the previous blogs, Donna referred to one commonality with all Ps and that is pathological lying. The word pathological already means that it significantly varies from the norm. Everyone lies, according to research, at least 5 times per day (this is something I remember was a shocking discovery for me in college). Apparently, we do this without even noticing, when we exaggerate, or misrepresent some facts. However, I disagree that “everyone knows a P”, which I think I heard Mary Jo say. The remorseless cunning lies are rare, and are hopefully not nearly as rare as toxic, mean, or otherwise unhealthy people. If we want the world to understand psychopathy, we have to make sure that the world understands that not all abusers are psychopaths, not all killers are psychopaths, and not all thieves. A man who can look into your eyes and tell you that you mean a world to him after coming back from being with a long term lover, a man who can lie in each and every direction, 100 x day with no particular care, a man who cons, lives off of you, etc. – that is my P story. I had never known such a person in my life, and I hope I never will again. All of the bloggers here have experienced the Ps, but I am not sure that we are representative of the majority (G-d I hope not).
Disclaimer: did not mean to be offensive to anyone, just wanted to share my thoughts.
Another Disclaimer: Met the guy that “Spooked” me once more. Found him to be a bore. Bore = not a psychopath. I can go see movies now.


The remorseless cunning lies are rare, and are hopefully not nearly as rare as toxic, mean, or otherwise unhealthy people… Should read as: cunning lies are rare, and HOPEFULLY are more rare than toxic, mean, or otherwise unhealthy people


PI, I am confused by your statement, “that not all abusers are psychopaths.”

Maybe I’m confused because 3 of my counselors separately “diagnosed” my narcissiopath as a psychopath DUE to his physicall abuse. I believed them! Maybe I shouldn’t have?

Hmmm. Maybe it is true that not all abusers are psychopaths, But, maybe all PHYSICAL abusers are psychopaths?

I think I need some more study or some expert clarification. I’m feel really confused. I sure don’t want to label my EX as a psychopath if he isn’t — but just toxic (as our GP in my hometown told me — who knew him.)


Right you are. I don’t intend to diminish anyone’s experience, and I certainly have no doubt that the “empty suit” was a P just by your previous descriptions. The descriptions of the Ps and symptoms are abound even on the net (if you wish to compare notes). In fact, Psychopathy used to be a legitimate diagnosis, was taken out of the Manual, and is now working its way back into the MH diagnostic circles. Instead, a diagnosis of APD is given to those who meet the criteria. The criteria focuses highly on lack of remorse, lack of conscience, and pervasive disregard for the rights of others (as well as pathological lying and failure to abide by societal norms and authority). There are more within the criteria of course. By “lumping” all abusers into a term Psychopath, one takes the actual meaning of the decease out of the condition and begins to use it loosely. Again, I don’t want to come across as being insensitive, I am merely pointing out that not all abusers are psychopaths, and not all killers are psychopaths and not everyone who is in jail is a psychopath. that isn’t to say that a physically abusive alcoholic, or an emotionally abusive OCD, or a disrespectful and violent teenager cause any less damage. I think Pathological Lying is (as Donna noted) a significant telling factor. I also believe that not all psychopaths are physically abusive and indeed some are walking a very thin line between what is legal and what is not. In hind sight, I am now wondering why mine knew laws so well for instance… I hope I did not upset you with my comment.


PS: Hitler apparently had a Borderline Personality Disorder. I would have lumped him with the APDs myself, but the college psych books said otherwise. It’s still cluster B and I have no idea how he’d not meet the criteria for APD, but I learned that he did not. Go figure. He must have not been a terribly good lier: just enough to convince a whole nation…


PS AGAIN: it may have not been the Physical Abuse that got him that diagnosis. It’s all the things you pointed out: superficial charm, lack of emotions, perceived neediness and sense of entitlement, etc. these are the pointers. OK, I am taking my Smart hat off. 🙂 I had a really neat “healing” day today. I am going to start counting the really good days like today and hope to get up to a full week. Good night

super chic

To lump or not to lump, that is the question.


This is from Wikipedia:
The following findings are for research purposes only, and are not used in clinical diagnosis. These items cover the affective, interpersonal, and behavioral features. Each item is rated on a score from zero to two. The sum total determines the extent of a person’s psychopathy.[6]

Factor1: Aggressive narcissism

1. Glibness/superficial charm
2. Grandiose sense of self-worth
3. Pathological lying
4. Cunning/manipulative
5. Lack of remorse or guilt
6. Emotionally shallow
7. Callous/lack of empathy
8. Failure to accept responsibility for own actions

Factor2: Socially deviant lifestyle

1. Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
2. Parasitic lifestyle
3. Poor behavioral control
4. Promiscuous sexual behavior
5. Lack of realistic, long-term goals
6. Impulsivity
7. Irresponsibility
8. Juvenile delinquency
9. Early behavior problems
10. Revocation of conditional release

Traits not correlated with either factor

1. Many short-term marital relationships
2. Criminal versatility


PInow, I do KNOW that my “empty suit” was a Narcissist! Just haven’t been convinced he was a psychopath.

Doesn’t really matter. He tried to kill me. His “label” isn’t important. I’m 1800 miles away and SAFE.


I am very happy for you. I hope to say the same of myself (feeling safe that is). you are right, it only matters for educational purposes. and the conversation we had was about educating the public on what Ps are. So, we are back to the start: Abuse is bad. Not all abusers are Ps. I had no idea mine was a P until years later. I had no idea I was being abused even, until much later. That “Con” is what is what I found most devastating in my case.


For me, the CONTROL was the most devastating to me and even while “in” it, I couldn’t get free.

I want to educate the public about statements like,”Why didn’t she just leave?” by telling them to walk in our shoes and then ask the question to get the answer.

I feel very pessimistic about ever getting the public to understand that part of it.


Don’t worry ANL, there are enough people like you and me out there, who have walked in our shoes, to find us our audience. Then its just a matter of time before the information is readily available to those that are trapped in it and can’t find their way out like we were. But each individual will have to reach their own “rockBottom” before they can reach out and identify with us.


I am not so sure I will go along with all of PI’s statement.
I will ‘give you’ they may not all be P’s/S’s, but certainly cluster B’s…….in the end, the public has NO CLUE about Cluster B’s…..let alone P’s/S’s.
The public doesn’t want to be ‘involved’…..UNTIL IS SHIT”S ON THIER FRONT PORCH!
I do believe we all know Cluster B’s……
I think the ‘intimate’ level we were involved in these S’s lives and them ours, makes it hard to judge others from the outside. THis is why others have a hard time seeing or believing our abusive situation.
The S’s save it for ‘home’…..and portray the perfect outer shell to the outside world…….Or the office etc….but they do not outwardly and across the board take wrath on the world…..they need a ‘justification’…..’You made me….” “If YOU hadn’t…..”
So don’t be so sure we don’t all know other P’s…….I just hope we all know better than to walk into anohter intimate relationship with them.
Keep safe…..ALL OF US!


Pinow and others:

I may be jumping on a fast moving train here, but I have to say that I agree with everyone’s statements. I don’t think it is easy to for us to determine who is or isn’t a true S.

I was married to a physical, emotional and verbal abuser…mostly due to his being an alcoholic. He was absolutely “normal” until he got a drink in him and then he transformed into a monster. He also cheated when he was drinking. He killed himself nearly 18 years ago. I was much younger then and all I can remember about him is that he was a very bad man when he was drunk.

However, it is Pinow’s experience of:

“A man who can look into your eyes and tell you that you mean a world to him after coming back from being with a long term lover, a man who can lie in each and every direction, 100 x day with no particular care, a man who cons, lives off of you, etc. – that is my P story. I had never known such a person in my life, and I hope I never will again.”

that first brought the word “sociopath” into my personal life. I asked my counselor to please help me understand how ANYONE could do what Pinow has described above. He looked me straight in the eye and told me that my ex was a sociopath and like Mary Jo says…that word meant something much BIGGER to me than who he was until I researched the true meaning of it. I also agree that all of us are capable of lying, cheating, etc. but have come to believe like Mary Jo. It’s when these things are a repeated behavioral pattern and I think it takes more than ONE isolated trait. For instance, I have a wonderful aunt that is now in her mid 70s and has told tall tales all of her life. She is also one of the most caring people I’ve ever known and loves her family dearly. I don’t feel that she is a sociopath.

And, my gut tells me that when we find ourselves involved with a sociopath, we find ourselves asking “what the _________?” because they’re mask does slip and they suddenly either say or do something totally out of the character that we’ve come to know. Make sense?


Well said!
“that word meant something much BIGGER to me than who he was until I researched the true meaning of it”
For me this was my life saving moment also! When I dug into the meaning…….it was life changing! I realized, all those years of ‘morphing’ into what the S wanted and never was happy with…..all his I love you more than…..I could never live without you….blah, blah’s……NOTHING was going to change, there was NO HOPE!!!
It boils down to ……people either ‘get it’ or they don’t….BUT….once you ‘getit’…..there’s no fooling yourself any longer……the fantasy is over.



Well said right back at you! “It boils down to —people either ’get it’ or they don’t”.BUT”.once you ’getit’”..there’s no fooling yourself any longer—the fantasy is over.”

I just hate it when people think that WE are the crazy ones! We’re seen as scorned people obsessing over our little fragile broken hearts! I don’t know about the rest of the people on this board but I’m 49 years old and have suffered many broken hearts in my lifetime! It hurt, I healed and moved on. For me, what made the “ordeal” with the S so much different was the sheer level of deceit, the humiliation, being taken advantaged of in the name of what appeared to be the most sincere love I’d ever experienced, and the insult to my own intelligence as well as my integrity. AND, just where is the closure??? We could curse them all day long and tell them how they made us feel and because THEY can’t feel, once again they’d only waste more of our energy and once again, it would be US who appear to be the fruitcakes!!! And, it all boils down to people just don’t “get it”.

I’m sure you’ve seen my posts under the thread Narcissists Commandments where I have tried for so very long to get my ex-S’s wife to “get it”. She finally started posting some on this board and then when she was told by others exactly what I’ve been trying to tell her, she bailed because she just doesn’t “get it” although he’s cheated on her repeatedly and has given her two incurable STDs! And, THEN, she married him!!!! She wants to “help” him and he has her convinced that the only reason in the world I’ve told her these things is because I “want him back”! Do the other people on this board who responded to her want him back, too?


Keep in mind……we can’t change how others perceive them! EVER…..if we try outwardly and loudly, it ALWAYS backfires…..
Like I say…..we need to ‘plant seeds’……covertly……but sometimes it just doesn’t matter what others believe, and we must have the wisdom to know this.
If it ‘serves our need’, then become a gardner….and plant those seeds!
If we do it out of sheer caring for someone that will get duped next…..we will only appear the scorned woman!
It’s all about exploitations…….
Think back, if someone tried to ‘warn’ you…….you probably defended him up one side and down the next…..I SURE DID!
We believed in them…..we had to /we wanted so much to……we couldnt betray our relationship by partaking in ‘foul’ issues against the ‘love of our life’……..
As harsh as it sounds…..until someone is seeking the ‘why’s’, they will not be open to hearing about it. Consequently, they will not ‘get it’ until they are ready! JUST LIKE US!!!!
AND NO, THANK YOU……I don’t want YOURS, MINE or anyone elses S back…..she can keep him for now……sounds like she may need his health insurance anyways!
There will always be another ‘unassuming/wonderful/fantasy living’ person to take them on, they will never be alone……alone is a scary world for them! They melt and turn into mud. No one to boost the ego, no one to admire them, stroke them, no one to dominate, no one to control, manipulate…….Yeah…..they move along quickly!


LOL! His health insurance? I’m sorry, but that made me laugh. He won’t work…it’s HERS that he needs just like he needed mine! You’re right…people will “get it” when they’re ready. And, yes I’ve planted acres and acres of seeds. And, several of them have already sprouted. I’m sure the rest will pop up sooner or later…I hope, for her sake, it’s sooner.


I am so grateful to see another survivor from Sociopaths in Mary Jo’s book. It is something to CELEBRATE! It gives me HOPE!
It is validating to those of us who have experienced the “crazy maker” in our lives. I hope that she does plant the “seeds of awareness” in other innocent people.

I want to express my GRATITUDE to Donna, LF, and all of our experienced SURVIVORS! TOWANDA!
It has been a PRICELESS education for me.

I broke the NC rule after 14 months due to divorce proceedings. I want you to know that I was very well prepared because of all that I have gained here on LF! I could see it and hear it loud and clear.

I am so THANKFUL that I am on my way completely out of this situation. I made the right choice for my life! No second chances with an S.
Take Care and Have a very Blessed Day! Thank you ALL!


My former BF was a physically abusive. I believe he was bi-polar and it seemed he was a paranoid-delusional. He was Not when we first dated. Then he lived in London for a semester and did a lot of drugs and was never the same. He would have visions of people’s aura.

My P was not physically abusive…is not. Neither was he emotionally/verbally abusive except for the lies. He became truly emotionally abusive when the A was exposed and he was going back and forth between us, telling us both different stories of who he really wanted.

Maybe my P is not a P, but he definitely has a personality disorder, my Marriage C who met him once and is now my Indiv. C says he’s an NPD.

Ox Drover

If you look at ANY person who is PHYSICALLY VIOLENT in pursuit of CONTROL ESPECIALLY with loved ones, this book looks at them the way I do PSYCHOPLATHS.

I also look at RAPISTS and CHILD MOLESTERS as ALL psychopaths. Think about it guys….sure, they may ALSO be very Narcissistic, but the fact that they can perform physical violence on another person for CONTROL WITHOUT EMPATHY to me, is THE thing that sets them apart from the just narcissistic person, even a high level N. I think when they pass that line into raping, beating, abusing adn controlling others, they have passed the line into PSYCHOPATHY.

THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS WRONG!!! Yet, they do not restrain themselves, then try to place the “blame” on the VICTIM—“She made me do it” “she was asking for it” etc.

That is NOT TO SAY that EMOTIONAL VIOLENCE is not just as hurtful or just as wrong, and I consider those people psychopathic as well if they have no empathy and no remorse for the manipulation they do or the harm they do.

BOTTOM LINE, THOUGH, whatever you call them, whatever the name, “a rose is a rose is a rose and it all SMELLS THE SAME!”


Banana, thank you for sharing this. your BF could have / may have been helped with the anti-psychotics. The P can never be helped because they think that we are the guilty/ crazy/ stupid ones.
It is important to me somehow that we recognize the difference. If one is in a relationship with a mentally ill person (be it bipolar, schizophrenic, depressed, etc.), one may wish to consider standing by that person, setting personal boundaries, establishing supports, and insisting on their treatment. I have met couples where one or both are mentally ill, and they support each other, truly through thick and thin. Physical abuse may come and be stopped, the dissonance may be resolved with treatment and mutual respect and understanding of boundaries. It is when you are with a lying conning P that these goals may not be reached. In my case, I made a horrific mistake of questioning my own judgment and the advise of professionals in the field ( i.e. do not attempt to explain to a P that he is mentally ill, do not insist on a treatment. Go NC). I hoped instead that I was wrong in my diagnosis and insisted that he own up to behaviors and take on responsibility for own action. If they even do, it’s shallow, with an end goal in mind and totally superficial (like their charm). Sorry to be harping on this. I know the professionals in the field will agree with the points I’ve shared because these points are universal. I am not sure I sense understanding among some bloggers. Personally, I am happy to have found this site, because to me, LF is different from the Abuse Victim sites, or other PD sites. Most of the posted articles do focus specifically on Ps and I too have learned a lot through reading these and the blogs.


A friend just called me to tell me she saw MaryJo on “The View” yesterday. She said it was fascinating and “Just like listening to you.” MaryJo, be our leader.


“UNTIL IS SHIT”S ON THIER FRONT PORCH!” That is exactly what i mean by “rockbottom”.


Oxy, I couldn’t agree with you more only I would not use a beautiful rose in the description but, maybe say, “a snake is a snake”. 🙂

I am with you Matt! GO MARY JO!

PInow, sounds like you understand what you are dealing with, even if others understand or not. It doesn’t matter- You get it. You got it! “…even if they do, it’s shallow, with an end goal in mind and totally superficial (like their charm)” I just used this same explanation today. Hmmmm, “a snake is a snake is a snake”….:)
We are fortunate to have LF for education and support. Keep heading in the direction that is right for YOU! Take Care.


Hi, I remember myself from before going through an abusive relationship, and I believe I have an answer why normal people are not willing to learn about sociopaths.

I used to be a person who deeply believed that all people are good, and everyone is right in their own ways, ect. I believe the reason I did that is because this kind of attitude makes you feel safe – you do not need to worry there are crazy human vampires all around you waiting for an opportunity to finish you off… 🙂 And by having such positive attitude you can spend time developing your intellect to higher levels. On the other hand it is a full time job of looking for excuses to other peoples behaviour.

Funny thing is I realized that there were this “fakes” among humans, and I developed an early warning system as early as 6 yo to spot them. I called this detection system – “logic”, and by talking to a person for a while I could figure weather a person was faking on me or not. But at certain age I stopped following my own rules, because they were in conflict with the widely accepted beliefs that “all people are good” and “it does not matter who started the fight first” .

And belief about inherent goodness took precedence over any other. Now I know this belief was wrong.

I also believe that if you demonstrate in front of a sociopathic decision maker that you are properly “brainwashed” by your culture and show that you believe in goodness of any human being and are willing to justify perpetrator when you see injustice than he or she will like you (you are just where they want you to be, so they like it) and make a decision in your favor. I think people subconsciously recognize this fact, and modify their behavior accordingly.
Combine it with the strong need to believe in goodness of humans and the result is as you see it – a mixture of untruths.

Since my painful experience I do not show my true self to anyone, I started to listen to people carefully, and the mistaken belief that all people want good is not there anymore. Some crazies want to control others.
I also had sucesseses with my new approach.
I had a woman telling me on our first conversation what a skillful pretender she is and how cleverly she lied to psychologists when she talked to them … :))) . Than she bragger how dumb those psychologists were not to be able to figure her lies.
I do not have to tell you how glad I was to read the books I read and to have the knowledge I did not have before.
If you just let people talk they will present themselves. The only difficulty is in our perception, if we are willing to believe our own eyes and ears.

Take Care,


I bought it.

Hope it helps me. Hope it helps her… get the word out.
Hope it helps humanity.



I always read “pinow” : )

I was considering you comment about encouraging the bi-polar PD etc… to get help.

I recall telling exFB that he was bi-polar and he stabbed me with his finger…nice bruise. Maybe he WAS a P. His mom’s a typical Co-Dep. She gives him everything. She didn’t stand up to him when he was abusing me. (She did have a PINS against him as a child). He lives with her/off her now. Doesn’t even have a car. He’s 28.

Now my P will do anything I say NOW. But even when he was in the A, I could call him all the names I wanted and tell him he was sick, crazy, etc… he’d never rage or become violent.
I love that I can insult him now.
P mentioned he bought a book for son and it was religious I asked if his hands burnt when he held it : ) He just pulled the pity ploy.

super chic

peterd… excellent post, I’m going to copy and paste it into my journal to remind myself of your advice!! I always believed in the goodness of people, not anymore!


Banana, If your P is a P, you are playing with fire. They do not forget and sadly are not capable of forgiving. The NC advise came too late for me, but the fact remains that the S/P IT is incapable of forgiveness and / or remorse.

I am sorry for you. Pretending is such a horrific job to take on. I sure hope that my trust in humanity and my ability to think of humans as good and with God within will rebuild itself and grow. Yes, I met a true bad egg. yes, I made a horrible choice that devastated my family. There are times I hate what I’ve done. There are times, I am thankful for not losing my ability to be frank, open, trusting, and also gullible. I am still working on the ‘gullible” part, because it is my hope to be able to always protect my kids and myself, in case another bad egg rolls my way. I don’t think many of us would be able to function if not for the ability to trust. Otherwise, what makes us so different from the mistrusting Ps, who believe that they can con because this is the way of life? My 2cents worth.



I agree. If we allow the experience with the bad people to disable our ability to love, trust or have faith in anyone, we lose a critical part of ourselves that makes us good and caring people and provides joy in normal life. In essence, we give the bad people more power over us…even after we have escaped the relationship.

I think knowlege is the key…and using our new knowlege to protect ourselves by recognizing warning signs and being very selective in who we trust and get close to.

Personally, I refuse to enable ANYONE anymore. I figure if the users get nothing, they go away on their own. Only true humans stay around just for the company! LOL

super chic

Yes I agree, that’s why peterd’s post made so much sense.


T NEWMAN wrote: “We could curse them all day long and tell them how they made us feel and because THEY can’t feel…”

Thank you for stating it that way. Reading it gave me a welcome “aha” moment. Of course, he didn’t hear me because he couldn’t feel! DUH!

No, I sure don’t want to deal with your EX — and who has now trapped and duped the young girl you (we) tried to save.

Elizabeth Conley

Getting it Through My Thick Skull…

I just read a news article this AM that cited scientific evidence that use of tanning beds was as carcinogenic as smoking cigarettes.

Now what’s that got to do with Sociopaths? Where is she going with this? Maybe she shouldn’t post before she drinks her third cup of coffee! (Chuckle)

Any way, I confess that I was actually considering using a tanning bed for the first time last week. I’ve been trying to look a bit more attractive for my husband lately. I reasoned that tanning beds must be safe, because they’ve been on the market for so long, and they’re practically everywhere.

Looking back on my state of delusion as I considered using the tanning bed to look a little cuter in shorts, I have to shake my head at my own naivette. When will I get it through my thick skull?

The sociopaths, narcissists and psychopaths I’ve known operated in plain sight, in positions of “leadership” and “respectability”. People squashed any concerns they had about these people’s behavior because the S/N/P was “accepted by everyone.” Surely everything was OK.

Not! We’ve got to use our brains and trust our instincts. Otherwise we’re suckers.


OMG! You’re right…it is a little off topic but I’ve owned and used a tanning bed for years AND I’m a smoker!!!! I wonder how long I have left? I’m doomed! I was already feeling a little depressed!

Elizabeth Conley


Oh boy.

I’m really sorry I opened my fat mouth. I’m sure you’ll be fine.

I know plenty of old duffers who are toasted to a permanent dried apple brown and smoke like chimneys. You’ll probably live forever.


Chuckle! This is all over the news here in England too. I sat in bed this morning watching it and checking my moles! I once used a tanning bed, but I have for many years been a fan of ‘pale and interesting’. I will stick to my pale and interesting gut for sure from now on… now if i could just quit smoking… I might stand a chance:)


Thanks for the warning…I was actually warming my tanning bed up when I saw this. Why haven’t we heard this before now? Tanning beds have been around for how long now…25 years or longer? I know they cause a lot of damage to the skin and can contribute to skin cancer but have they connected the beds to other types of cancer? Why are we talking about this? All of us have already survived a type of “cancer” that nearly sucked the life right out of us! I’m certainly not trying to be flippant if anyone on this board is suffering from cancer. I lost my dearest aunt to lung cancer several years ago and STILL smoke like a freight train!

Ox Drover

Guys, I think EC’s analogy is a pretty good one, and not off topic at all, really.

“Everyone’s doing it” or “they wouldnt’ be for sale if they weren’t SAFE” DUH! Look how much damage stuff does before it is deemed “unsafe” and then it iis taken off the market, or like alcohol and cigarettes, addicts can still get it legally even though it is KNOWN to be bad because there are so many of them.

“Public” opinion of a person is just the same. They do a few little things “bad” like the tanning bed causes WRINKLES and skin cancer, but oh how pretty it makes you look. I never used a tanning bed, but I have BAKEd in the sun for years. Went to othe doctor yesterday to have a skin cancer off the back of my hand, got one off my nose a month ago. Can’t do a darned thing about the sun spots and wrinkles. I KNEW from my grandmother to keep covered up, but I didn’t do it, so now I pay the price, but “everyone else was doing it” so I didn’t listen to GOOD ADVICE to stay covered.

I’ve been warned not to have anything to do with certain people who (in the end turned out to clearly be psychopaths) but I did it anyway cause at the time it “felt okay” and “some others (also) thought they were okay. I’ve warned others off the Ps but the people I warned would not listen because it “felt better” to believe what they wanted to.

Believing the TRUTH of something requires that we TAKE action, where “believing there is good in everyone” doesn’t require us to feel unsafe or take any ACTION.

Rat poison is 98% pure corn meal, the rat BELIEVES THE LIE, thinks he is getting a “free meal” and ends up dying because he BELIEVED A LIE. When we believe the lies, that belief can leave us as dead as the rat who believed his supper was pure!

“The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off” (Donna Andersen)


Elizabeth- Just a thought, on the tanning bed issue- I stopped years ago from tanning, but do the spray on-called mystic tan here- where you stand in a booth and get a “fake” spray of color. It comes off in a few days to a week-by eventually fading- but from what I know of it, is a safe alternative and no “leather” skin or dried apple brown as you said. lol!


I have been working on my own book for the last year about my experience and what I learned. I too googled the word “sociopathy” and encountered so much I did not know. I plan to self-publish my book next month and my hope is that it too will help others to understand. More importantly, I hope that I can show how my experience was truly a blessing in disguise. I am a much better person now and much happier. I needed to go through what I did to get to the place I am in now.


Good Morning!!!!! Wake up” So TRUE!

This morning as I enjoyed my coffee I watched Good Morning America, a familiar face was speaking from her heart about her ex sociopath husband” remember Mary Jo Buttafuoco? The woman who was shot in the face by a sixteen year old Amy Fisher? Remember how her husband totally denied having an affair with Amy, how his wife Mary Jo stood by him and supported him”. Why? Because he was so darn good at lying and believing his own lies that he convinced her. The police told her that her husband was sleeping with the teen, but Joey denied everything”. Mary Jo believed the man she loved, ” because he had the charm and the ability to lie and not think a thing about it”. HE had no conscience, he didn’t care who he hurt, and he would never take the blame” the blame with a sociopath is always placed on those around them” they aren’t capable of taking responsibility”. WOW”.

There is no doubt in my mind, I have come in contact with a sociopath” not that I am capable of making a diagnosis but I am capable of reading and seeing for myself the actions that are listed as typical sociopath behaviors. I am always amazed at the times I was told, that they only needed my faith and trust in them. After listening to the same LIES, and yes that’s what they are when it is not the truth” the realization dawns that this person can not keep their word. When you point out the lies, and they laugh in your face, you soon realize that they are aware and are using this to their advantage. They yell at you and tell you that you are the one who has caused them problems” Problems? No, you see the one thing they don’t want you to see is… The TRUTH.

I laugh now, because I see the big picture.. I see that a sociopath will not accept anything but the “truth—.but it is their “truth”. What is truth when it is clouded by a mind that can lie as easily as they breathe? A sociopath is usually a nice looking person, they easily draw people into their circle and with tons of charm and charisma they easily pursue anyone they want. They may feel the world owes them whatever they can easily talk someone into helping them acquire” Does it bother them that they are spinning a yarn that is no where truthful? Not in the least, they only have their eyes on the prize. It may be money, or it could be material things” or something as simple and heartbreaking as seeing how many people they can have love them”.

The sad part of all of this is” the sociopath isn’t loved for the REAL person they are, because they become whatever they need to be. When the unsuspecting victim of their “attack” is finally aware of what is taking place the sociopath becomes violent if confronted. They may strike out with words or as the information I’ve read has stated with violent tendencies. The “I love You” one minute becomes vile and ugly words that may shock you to hear. But they will always place the BLAME on the real victim, they will never take the blame for doing any of this to themselves.

I have to applaud Mary Joe Buttafuoco for standing by her man. She loved therefore she believed. It took this woman 17 years to realize what others could see in Joey. Why? Sociopaths are good, they play on your insecurities and they charm you. They tell you how much you mean to them, how much they love you, and IF only you’d continue to have faith in them, you’ll see.. They’ll keep their word”. I have to wonder how many men and women are constantly hearing from a sociopath the same things that kept Mary Jo with Joey—. When all is said and done” you mean as much to a sociopath as the tissue they use to wipe themselves”. They use you for the purpose they have in mind and toss you aside to find a fresh victim to begin all over again”.

I have to hope that with Mary Jo’s writing of this book, that the condition known as a sociopath is brought to life. Maybe people’s eyes will be opened as with autism, FMS, and other rarely recognized disorders that indeed there is a problem that needs to be addressed. These people need help, and need to stop being allowed to destroy unsuspecting victims. There’s nothing worse than the sick feeling deep in your soul when you realize that the man/woman who has been telling you how much they love you are incapable of feelings. Emotional and financial rape of others will never cause them remorse, they are incapable of feeling” or seeing the wrong.

Thank you Good Morning America, thank you Mary Jo.. And thank you Lovefraud for all the information you have printed, reported and shared to open the eyes of those whose only fault was believing the lies of someone who could care less”. It was never our fault after all”it wasn’t us doing anything to the sociopath, it was them doing it to us. So we have a choice, do we fight back? Or do we run in shame as they’d like and never bring to light the horrors we suffered in taking them at their “useless word”? As for me” I’ll stand on the TRUTH” and know that through faith God will deal in his time and at his will. I believe, I have faith, and yes” I have learned, words are more than not cheap, when they come from the lips of a sociopath”.But one thing I know for sure is, I am not alone,.. There are plenty who have been used by sociopaths”. Love does render you temporarily blind,” in time the TRUTH is easy to see.. .clear as a bright sunny day.

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