Remember the Electric Light Orchestra? I couldn’t resist. But I really want to say something about an e”¦evil woman. Actually, not really. I just wanted an excuse to say e..evil woman. Okay, I’ve said it, again. Now I’ve got it out of my system. I’ll stop with that.
But I do want to talk about evil. Evil’s such a dicey word. Evil? What is evil? What really makes someone evil? Do evil people exist?
That is, can someone even be evil: Are people evil, or just their behaviors?
I remember a friend of mine, a close friend, years ago, once called me an “evil m*therf*cker,” and I laughed. Did I laugh because I’m evil, thereby validating his accusation? Or did I laugh because I was secure enough to know I’m not?
By the way, what prompted his accusation was a really cruel, funny practical joke I played on him. I’m afraid he found it much more cruel than funny, whereas I found it much funnier than cruel. (Maybe some other time I’ll describe the joke?)
Speaking of cruel, is there a relationship between evil and cruelty? Are they the same thing? When you’re being cruel, or committing a cruel act, are you being evil? Is the cruelty itself evil?
If you don’t have a headache by now, I do. But that’s okay”¦I’ll even make it worse by posing some more light questions, like: Are exploiters, by definition, evil? Is exploitation always evil? Or, must acts of exploitation reach a certain threshhold of heinousness to constitute evil?
And what about our favorite friends, the sociopaths? Are sociopaths, by definition, evil? Sometimes? Always?
And then, of course, the really ultimate question: Do you really think I’m going to answer these questions?
Do you really think I’m crazy, and grandiose, enough, to tackle these questions?
Maybe I am”¦but I can assure you, not adequately. Still, I will “man up” and offer some “takes” on these heady matters, if for no other purpose than to drum-up some good discussion!
I fully expect, incidentally, your feedback to change my mind on, and views of, these questions many times, exposing (you can be sure) the fickleness of my positions.
But, for the moment, here are my short answers:
I believe people can be evil, not just do evil; in other words, I believe some people are evil.
I believe that evil is always cruel, but that cruelty is not always evil.
I believe that evil is always exploitative, but that exploitation is not always evil.
I believe that evil is always destructive, but that destructiveness is not always evil.
Consistent with these views, I believe that some exploiters and, more specifically, some sociopaths—but not all—are evil.
Now, for my personal working definition of evil, in all its glaring limitations: Evil, as I see it, is the lust to express cruelty towards, and/or destructiveness of, others.
There it is. Note the boldfaced “lust to express;” I regard the “lust” as a central element of evil.
Let me dive right into an elaboration of some of my positions.
Evil is always cruel, but cruelty is not always evil. My view here is that evil, fortunately, is less commonplace than cruelty. Cruelty, however, is tragically commonplace.
Most of us are capable of cruelty, but most of us are not evil. This isn’t to diminish the impact of cruelty. In fact, because cruelty is so commonplace and destructive, it is arguably the worst part of human nature.
But not all cruelty is lust-driven. When cruelty is lust-driven, it is evil. When not, it is something less than evil—although I stress that even this debatable point doesn’t lessen cruelty’s impact one iota.
I think the same applies to “exploitation—”that is, exploitation is cruel, always, but not always evil. Valid or not, this assertion isn’t meant to minimize the potentially traumatic impact of exploitation.
Let me give a relatively benign example: A slick colleague convinces you to lend him $150 cash, promising to pay you back in a couple days. The next day, he’s gone. Has left the job. Quit. Never gave notice. The boss is bewildered, and you are too. You never hear from him again. You knew him well enough (so you thought) to lend him the money, but not, as it turns out, as well as you thought. The money probably bought his Amtrak ticket to Seattle.
You were fleeced. He knew he’d be gone, and he had no intention of honoring his debt. To him, you weren’t so much a nice guy whose generosity he appreciated, as much as, ultimately, a sucker. You were taken. He’s a sociopath.
But he needed the money, and put it to practical use. The problem is, he stole it from you. But he needed the money, and money is money, however he can get his hands on it. Not all sociopaths think like this, but some do.
This sociopath was thinking somewhat pragmatically; he needed the money and schemed to get it. But here’s the point: He didn’t lust for your suffering as much as he lusted for your money. Basically, he was greedy and sociopathically conniving, and so he took what he wanted, not per se to inflict pain or harm on you, but because he wanted it.
In this instance, he is exploitative, in my view, but not evil.
Is he cruel? Not in this example. I define cruel as having an intention to inflict harm or pain on someone. This could be mental, or physical pain. It is arguably cruel, for instance, to dismiss someone contemptuously, and yet it is not necessarily cruel, but is definitely exploitative, to con someone out of $150.
A former client of mine, around 1994, shot-up a bunch of kids at a swimming pool with a semi-automatic weapon. (For my own pathetic ego, I was grateful he waited until about two years after I last saw him.) He’d been dually diagnosed as a psychopath and paranoid schizophrenic. Was he evil? I don’t think so, although I appreciate that those kids, and their families, might have thought so.
In any case, I think he was more paranoid than evil, although he was certainly cruel. I also think that he believed that those kids were evil.
So, in this case, which is not hypothetical, I’d suggest that my ex-client was cruel, but not necessarily evil, or for that matter, even exploitative.
How about a Bernie Madoff? Is Bernie Madoff evil? I don’t think so. Yet he may very well be a sociopath and most certainly was heinously exploitative. Was he cruel? I don’t think so, again. I don’t think it was Madoff’s intention to inflict suffering on anyone. That wasn’t his primary motive to do what he did, despite the devastating impact of his greed and deception.
Regarding cruelty: for me, to be cruel implies, and requires, an intention to cruelty; it is a separate issue whether the consequences of your actions are experienced as cruel. I suspect that Madoff’s victims will describe him as cruel, if only for his indifference. However, I don’t see, from the little that is known about this case, that “cruelty” drove Madoff’s exploitation.
Now let’s tackle some big fish: How about Saddam Hussein and Adolph Hitler?
Hussein, in my view, was both cruel and exploitative, but I’m not sure I’d call him evil. Hussein’s lust was principally for power, less principally (one might argue) evil-driven. His cruelty was more a means to an end—the “end” being the consolidation and preservation of his power, by whatever ruthless means necessary. Was he a sociopath? Very possibly.
Hitler, I think, was cruel, exploitative, and evil. Hitler’s lust transcended his obsession with power; his was a lust to exterminate the Jews and other “non-desirables.” In other words, apart from his pathological lust for power, he also had a lust for cruelty and destruction. The latter meets the criteria of evil.
What do you think? Whatever it is, I’m betting it’ll change my mind?
(This article is copyrighted (c) 2009 by Steve Becker, LCSW.)
I wrote a “novel” on how “good and evil,” etc are SUBJECTIVE depending on a lot of things, and it went off into cyber space…sheesh.
But what WE perceive as good or evil is dependent on lots of things, including our culture. We would perceive (most of us anyway) that a man with two wives (in our culture) was “evil” to them, but in Saudi it would not be perceived as bad at all.
We perceive that treating someone badly because of race, religion, cluture etc. is “evil” but in many of the areas of the world it is Standard Operating Procedure and accepted and expected, not “evil” to do so.
There are lots of things perceived differently here in our own culture. Abortion. Stem Cell research. Divorce. Female circumcision. Spanking children. Sex between adults and children. Prostitution. Gambling. Legal sales of drugs. Assisted suicide for terminally ill people.
I could go on, but you get the idea. What I might perceive as an Evil act, you might think is perfectly a good act and be for. sometimes laws are passed to prevent an “evil” act, but in the end the act/law has an evil result. The slaughter of horses for food was an “evil” thing some groups believed and got an act passed to prevent this in the US. As a result, old or injured or bad tempered horses are now left to starve, turned out on the highways to get hit by cars, or taken to various places and abandoned. The result was an evil thing (from the horse’s position) starvation vs a quick death. I don’t think there is a bit of difference eating cow than horse, or duck or dog. After it is dead it is meat. Period.
I don’t think it is wrong to take a human life to protect my own, but there are people who do think it is evil to kill under any circumstances.
Essentially, I think definitions of “good” vs “evil” are pretty subjective and different cultures and groups have different definitions of the terms. Each of us must come to a decision on what constitutes evil for themselves. How we behave is somewhat governed by laws, but how we think is governed by ourselves. We must each for our selves come to a moral decision. Discussing it is a good thing, as long as we all keep our minds open to new ideas and new ways of looking at things. I think LF is GREAT about this and I have been provoked into thinking many times here. Thinking about deep subects, important subjects to me because they effect how I live, how I think, and what I want to BE.
When I was 15-16 I knew all the answers to all the black and white questions in the world. Now that I am 62, I realize I not only don’t know ANY of the answers in black and white, I don’t even know ALL OF THE QUESTIONS. The older I get and the more I learn, the more I realize I don’t know “Jack.”
By the time I learn “how to live” (if I ever do) it will be over! LOL
I see evil like a kind of side effect of narcissistic/psychopathic/sociopathic behavior. I would risk to say that it’s not the aim of the narcissist (or even psychopath) to do evil for the sake of it, but rather to make another person feel helpless and him/her powerful. Techniques to do it are called abuse.
Those techniques specifically target the locus of control of another person. The results of earlier mentioned techniques is what we call evil.
At the same time, I view psychopaths and narcissist as having revolving door for evil. Whenever evil wants to come out to this world, psychopaths and narcissist provide a permanently open gate for it. On the opposite, normal, good human beings guard those door carefully.
Regards
Peter
Oxy – LOL – your post made me laugh! I thought the same thing… and then you and Kathleen and Steve and others come along and the depth of the knowledge and thought provoking/inducing comments/questions.
I was beginning to think Steve was evil with the way he wrote this one! LOL… my head was spinning, I was never so caught up in good and evil ever before then in the above article!! and then I realized CLEVER, CLEVER, CLEVER…
And then Kathys response, I was nearly afraid to drive my car down the road for fear of creating another layer of impact forming a pothole down the road causing all kinds of evil traffic delays tomorrow…..lol….
I didnt know if would be evil not to respond or to respond… so I got some definitions of Evil posted em and got the heck outta here! LOL
Dont worry by the time its over… its all heavenly days thereafter, unless Kathy and Steve are on your wingtails whispering wonderful thought provoking ideas and questions in your ears on your way up there!!!!
Honestly, I made a light, airy joking funny (prolly only to me again lol) post about something that momentarily scared me and overwhelmed me in a great way — when I thought all the thoughts I did – and went far and deep beyond my deepest understanding of what life is truly all about and how Evil and Goodness are PERCEIVED/MISPERCEIVED….
I would have never thought this article would have catapulted me to such a place in my mind. So thanks Steve…and ELO… for such an awesome song MidEvil Woman…. 🙂
Steve, which sociopaths do you think are not evil?
I honestly don’t think it is the intention of my exSP to inflict harm on anyone. I think he just goes with what he wants in the moment and will tell any lie to get it. In his twisted sick mind, it’s not a big deal to promise someone he’ll call and then not call. And he fully expects to be treated this way himself. Because he is missing some chemical in his brain, he doesn’t understand the consequences of lying and deceiving others. I think he is honestly confounded when people react with rage to his lies. He doesn’t see what the big deal is. In all the time I knew him, he never did anything that seemed intentionally cruel. I honestly believe he never received any kind of pleasure from hurting me. I think he just doesn’t understand about emotional hurt. He is just cut from a different cloth. I have come to believe that sociopaths are just built differently than we are. They way they function makes perfect sense in their world, but doesn’t work in ours. It’s very pathetic to me, and I have to watch feeling sorry for him. In the aftermath of our relationship, he has not once tried to hurt me or smear me (to my knowledge). In fact, he was always very kind and generous with me. And yet about 95% of the stuff that came out of his mouth was a lie. I really think there is just something seriously missing in his brain. I don’t know if he was born like that, or if something happened to him in Iraq. But it’s the creepiest behavior problem I’ve ever seen. Evil? I don’t really know.
I really do believe there is a difference between people like this and those who intentionally inflict harm on others for fun. I have known people who deliberately screw with others’ feelings to hurt them, and then sit back laughing about it. Did anyone ever see the movie House of Games? It’s a must see for this site. Mine is not one of those types. But definitely a dangerous person because of all of the lies.
I have to add one cool thing I found when I was trying to find the etymology of the word.
This is from http://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew7/D7-EtymologyOfTheWordEvil.html, which talks about the origins of the word as “haughty” or “uppity.”
Referencing Ezekiel Chapter 16 verse 49.
“Look, this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: She and her daughter had pride, fullness of food, and abundance of idleness; neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty and committed abominations before Me; therefore, I took them away as I saw fit.”
So in one little piece, we have pride, gluttony, sloth, and greed. But haughty gets it own special mention, as well was not equalizing things for the poor and needy.
Star – Do you think maybe he was a pathological liar with a personality disorder?
From Andrea Broadbent “The Truth about Truman”: To begin, the definition of pathological actually means abnormal or grossly atypical. Therefore, a pathological liar prevaricates more frequently than the average person or tells more abnormal lies. In most cases, pathological liars tell lies that are “unplanned and impulsive” (Hausman). These lies are usually very emotional stories that tend to serve no purpose except to impress people (Ford 133). As of now, psychiatrists are unsure whether or not pathological liars are fully capable of realizing if and when they are lying, so detecting whether or not a person is a pathological liar is a very difficult task (Hausman). By looking at the list of conditions commonly connected with people considered to be pathological liars, psychiatrists are better able to determine whether or not a person might actually have the disorder. Some main qualities linked with pathological liars include dysfunctional family origin, family lying patterns, anomalies of sexual life, frequent substance abuse, and a great capacity for language.
From Raymond Lloyd Richmond, Ph.D. “Psychological Honesty”: Even a pathological liar carries deep in his heart a desire for goodness and honesty and yet, because of painful emotional wounds, believes that the world never has, and never will, recognize his pain. And so, to hide that pain from himself, he uses all the lies he can concoct to hurl at the world as he runs in fear from his own goodness.
They lie about even the smallest things.
For example, saying “I brushed my teeth today,” when they didn’t.
They add exaggerations to every sentence.
They change their story all the time.
They act very defensively when you question their statements.
They believe what they say is true, when everyone else knows it isn’t.
Lies when it is very easy to tell the truth.
Lies to get sympathy, to look beter, to save their butt, etc.
Fools people at first but once they get to know him, no one believes anything they ever say.
May have a personality disorder.
Extremely manipulative.
Has been caught in lies repeatedly.
Never fesses up to the lies.
Is a legend in their own mind.
I have looked up several words that I had read in the Bible that I really didn’t know what exactly they meant, and found some “intersting” information…like the definition of a “raler” which is a nasty mouthed screaming angry person, a gossip, the definition of “wrath” (vengeful bitter anger) etc. which “sins” are listed with murderers etc. as very harmful and an abomination to God. (Makes Him want to PUKE).
I may sound a little nuts here, but I think it is possible to FEEL the presence of evil. You may not know WHY you are feeling it, because on the surface it seems you have no reason to, but you get that really dark ominous feeling when in the presence of an evil person (even if they are not doing anything you’d consider evil at the moment).
I know I have read on the board that alot of people are totally bamboozled (is that a word?) with the charm of the sociopath or psychopath when they first meet them, then later on see signs of their evil. I had the opposite experience.
The first two times I met my P was sort of at a distance–talked to him once out in the yard with him about 30 feet away. Second time also a brief chat of about 20 – 30 feet away. BOTH times, from that distance he made the hair on my neck stand up and I got a very dark, ominous feel about him. I didn’t like the “feel” of him at all, he just felt “different” to me, like a dark thunder cloud with electricity in it–like a bad storm brewiing. I didn’t like him at all. It was only upon meeting him up close and person, standing face to face, with his brilliant smile and chatty personality and all the bells and whistles blah blah blah…..that I overrode that initial impression and feeling of evil energy, and started seeing him.
Now, like I said, maybe I’m nuts……..but I do think I was feeling the presence of evil energy when I first met the psychopath. Has anyone else had the experience of not intellectually seeing something and thinking it is evil, but of just “feeling” the energy of it? Hope this post even makes sense. –Jen
Hi everyone….wow…so much profundity in so many of your responses…so much food for thought (including, Kathleen, meat, and Oxy, plants).
Seriously, I’m honored to have triggered so much philosophy that’s actually interesting and engrossing.
LEARNTHELESSON….for a second, there, i thought maybe i’d erred, and it really was Mid-Evil Woman…you scared me there.
You guys are quite amazing.