Remember the Electric Light Orchestra? I couldn’t resist. But I really want to say something about an e”¦evil woman. Actually, not really. I just wanted an excuse to say e..evil woman. Okay, I’ve said it, again. Now I’ve got it out of my system. I’ll stop with that.
But I do want to talk about evil. Evil’s such a dicey word. Evil? What is evil? What really makes someone evil? Do evil people exist?
That is, can someone even be evil: Are people evil, or just their behaviors?
I remember a friend of mine, a close friend, years ago, once called me an “evil m*therf*cker,” and I laughed. Did I laugh because I’m evil, thereby validating his accusation? Or did I laugh because I was secure enough to know I’m not?
By the way, what prompted his accusation was a really cruel, funny practical joke I played on him. I’m afraid he found it much more cruel than funny, whereas I found it much funnier than cruel. (Maybe some other time I’ll describe the joke?)
Speaking of cruel, is there a relationship between evil and cruelty? Are they the same thing? When you’re being cruel, or committing a cruel act, are you being evil? Is the cruelty itself evil?
If you don’t have a headache by now, I do. But that’s okay”¦I’ll even make it worse by posing some more light questions, like: Are exploiters, by definition, evil? Is exploitation always evil? Or, must acts of exploitation reach a certain threshhold of heinousness to constitute evil?
And what about our favorite friends, the sociopaths? Are sociopaths, by definition, evil? Sometimes? Always?
And then, of course, the really ultimate question: Do you really think I’m going to answer these questions?
Do you really think I’m crazy, and grandiose, enough, to tackle these questions?
Maybe I am”¦but I can assure you, not adequately. Still, I will “man up” and offer some “takes” on these heady matters, if for no other purpose than to drum-up some good discussion!
I fully expect, incidentally, your feedback to change my mind on, and views of, these questions many times, exposing (you can be sure) the fickleness of my positions.
But, for the moment, here are my short answers:
I believe people can be evil, not just do evil; in other words, I believe some people are evil.
I believe that evil is always cruel, but that cruelty is not always evil.
I believe that evil is always exploitative, but that exploitation is not always evil.
I believe that evil is always destructive, but that destructiveness is not always evil.
Consistent with these views, I believe that some exploiters and, more specifically, some sociopaths—but not all—are evil.
Now, for my personal working definition of evil, in all its glaring limitations: Evil, as I see it, is the lust to express cruelty towards, and/or destructiveness of, others.
There it is. Note the boldfaced “lust to express;” I regard the “lust” as a central element of evil.
Let me dive right into an elaboration of some of my positions.
Evil is always cruel, but cruelty is not always evil. My view here is that evil, fortunately, is less commonplace than cruelty. Cruelty, however, is tragically commonplace.
Most of us are capable of cruelty, but most of us are not evil. This isn’t to diminish the impact of cruelty. In fact, because cruelty is so commonplace and destructive, it is arguably the worst part of human nature.
But not all cruelty is lust-driven. When cruelty is lust-driven, it is evil. When not, it is something less than evil—although I stress that even this debatable point doesn’t lessen cruelty’s impact one iota.
I think the same applies to “exploitation—”that is, exploitation is cruel, always, but not always evil. Valid or not, this assertion isn’t meant to minimize the potentially traumatic impact of exploitation.
Let me give a relatively benign example: A slick colleague convinces you to lend him $150 cash, promising to pay you back in a couple days. The next day, he’s gone. Has left the job. Quit. Never gave notice. The boss is bewildered, and you are too. You never hear from him again. You knew him well enough (so you thought) to lend him the money, but not, as it turns out, as well as you thought. The money probably bought his Amtrak ticket to Seattle.
You were fleeced. He knew he’d be gone, and he had no intention of honoring his debt. To him, you weren’t so much a nice guy whose generosity he appreciated, as much as, ultimately, a sucker. You were taken. He’s a sociopath.
But he needed the money, and put it to practical use. The problem is, he stole it from you. But he needed the money, and money is money, however he can get his hands on it. Not all sociopaths think like this, but some do.
This sociopath was thinking somewhat pragmatically; he needed the money and schemed to get it. But here’s the point: He didn’t lust for your suffering as much as he lusted for your money. Basically, he was greedy and sociopathically conniving, and so he took what he wanted, not per se to inflict pain or harm on you, but because he wanted it.
In this instance, he is exploitative, in my view, but not evil.
Is he cruel? Not in this example. I define cruel as having an intention to inflict harm or pain on someone. This could be mental, or physical pain. It is arguably cruel, for instance, to dismiss someone contemptuously, and yet it is not necessarily cruel, but is definitely exploitative, to con someone out of $150.
A former client of mine, around 1994, shot-up a bunch of kids at a swimming pool with a semi-automatic weapon. (For my own pathetic ego, I was grateful he waited until about two years after I last saw him.) He’d been dually diagnosed as a psychopath and paranoid schizophrenic. Was he evil? I don’t think so, although I appreciate that those kids, and their families, might have thought so.
In any case, I think he was more paranoid than evil, although he was certainly cruel. I also think that he believed that those kids were evil.
So, in this case, which is not hypothetical, I’d suggest that my ex-client was cruel, but not necessarily evil, or for that matter, even exploitative.
How about a Bernie Madoff? Is Bernie Madoff evil? I don’t think so. Yet he may very well be a sociopath and most certainly was heinously exploitative. Was he cruel? I don’t think so, again. I don’t think it was Madoff’s intention to inflict suffering on anyone. That wasn’t his primary motive to do what he did, despite the devastating impact of his greed and deception.
Regarding cruelty: for me, to be cruel implies, and requires, an intention to cruelty; it is a separate issue whether the consequences of your actions are experienced as cruel. I suspect that Madoff’s victims will describe him as cruel, if only for his indifference. However, I don’t see, from the little that is known about this case, that “cruelty” drove Madoff’s exploitation.
Now let’s tackle some big fish: How about Saddam Hussein and Adolph Hitler?
Hussein, in my view, was both cruel and exploitative, but I’m not sure I’d call him evil. Hussein’s lust was principally for power, less principally (one might argue) evil-driven. His cruelty was more a means to an end—the “end” being the consolidation and preservation of his power, by whatever ruthless means necessary. Was he a sociopath? Very possibly.
Hitler, I think, was cruel, exploitative, and evil. Hitler’s lust transcended his obsession with power; his was a lust to exterminate the Jews and other “non-desirables.” In other words, apart from his pathological lust for power, he also had a lust for cruelty and destruction. The latter meets the criteria of evil.
What do you think? Whatever it is, I’m betting it’ll change my mind?
(This article is copyrighted (c) 2009 by Steve Becker, LCSW.)
Keeping faith,
I am in 110% agreement with what you said above. Good good post….of course posts are always “good” if they agree with me! LOL ((((hugs))))
Hi Oxy…. I’m on a role….. My dad has been sick so I have been doing trips to PA and have not been on LF for a while. Nice to hear from you, AS ALWAYS!!!! Nice to have support as always!
IMO “intent” can play into Evil because although alot of things can be evil, I believe there are varying degrees of evil.
For example, look at rape. #1 Someone breaks into my home, holds a knife to my throat, rips off my clothes, then immediately rapes me, then immediately leaves.
#2 Someone breaks into my home, holds a knife to my throat, rips off my clothes, runs the knife over my body a few times, tells me all the things he wants to do to me, runs the knife over my body a few more times, sits down and eats and sandwich while telling me some more things he wants to do to me, spends some more time fondling me and running the knife over my body some more, then finally he rapes me and leaves.
In both scenerios there is breaking into the home, the ripping off of clothes, usage of a knife as a weapon, and rape. And although power/control is an issue in rape, in the second scenerio the prolonged terrorization makes it a worse form of evil to me even though neither situation involved any physical violence other than the rape itself since the man did not hit the woman, or use the knife to actually cut her. So same facts, same end result, but different intent in carrying it out.
Same with murder. Someone who walks up and blows a total stranger away just committed an evil act–no doubt. But for me, someone who walks up, kidnaps a stranger, takes them off and holds them a few days (even if they do NOTHING harmful to them physically during the interim), THEN kills them, is the more evil of the two, simply because of the longer term terror they have inflicted. Even though the end result is the same, both people are dead in the exact same manner–gunshot, no other injuries.
But like Learn the Lesson, I can also sometimes debate things with myself. 🙂
Hi Keeping Faith!
Learned said:
” being evil is a choice – whether or not it knowingly or unknowingly causes harm to others through gain/pain/mental illness. Whether or not the person making the choice to be Evil”took the time to take note of the consequence – beyond the choice – is not relevent to me. Evil comes to be through the choice – choice to be cruel, destructive, exploitative, corrupt ,neglectful etc. ”
Keeping Faith Said: IMHO”.. Evil is not intentional malice and has nothing to do with laws or legalities. What is intentional? If someone commits some act that violates another person, for the purpose of benefitting themself in some way, regardless of the consequences to themselves or others”..THAT is evil. They may not INTEND to hurt someone. Maybe their only intention is to benefit themself—. (they can’t intentionally hurt and violate if they don’t care what you feel and can’t see past their own greed and lust for power, attention, sex, influence, intimidation”.it doesn’t matter) Their intention is about THEM.
I think we are both saying the same things…I Think? Except I forgot to add at the end of my above sentence “for purpose of benefitting themselves”.
Steve said :Regarding cruelty: for me, to be cruel implies, and requires, an intention to cruelty; it is a separate issue whether the consequences of your actions are experienced as cruel. I suspect that Madoff’s victims will describe him as cruel, if only for his indifference. However, I don’t see, from the little that is known about this case, that “cruelty” drove Madoff’s exploitation.
You can be cruel intentionally or you can be cruel by ignorance. Cruelty may not have driven Madoffs exploitation but it came in to play along the way when he openly admitted to his sons that he was involved in a ponzi scheme and thats why he was taking early big bonuses — knowingly taking investors money and knowingly not investing it for their benefit but pocketing it for himself – is in essence a cruel thing to do to people. Madoff one day made an Evil CHOICE to be greedy, cruel simply by saying I can deceive and prosper. I can do something totally selfish – and at the same time I think I might also be able to pull off giving amazing returns if I just keep robbing Paul to pay Peter – but the state of economy caught up to him – or he would still be doing it..
And from a victim perspective, speaking only for myself, I believe although all the experiences would be traumatizing, I believe I would experience the second scenerio in both situations as a greater form of evil.
ugh…. correction… he made the evil choice to rob PETER to pay PAUL !!!! Although insert any name, but I wanted to say it the right way!!! LOL
Yes learned, I think we are saying the same thing. Cruelty? I don’t think they care if what they do is cruel or not. The receiver gets to decide that. ANd other people’s emotions don’t drive what they do.
For many of Madoffs victims. They probably feel it’s cruel to be in a position where Bernie’s family has prospered from their retirment money and some of them are now working as WalMart greeters at 70 yrs of age.
Jen – the evil choice to murder or the evil choice to rape. how one want to do it, play it out… is an individual issue. One may have 3 additional personality disorders than the other. One might be scared, and unable to follow through for 3 days, who in the world knows what takes place between the initial evil intent to harm and the actual act carried out. Thats a tough one for me to agree with – because there are so many things that constitute someone making the choice to be evil. Some intentional some by ignorance and some quite by mistake end up doing evil things.
ps. Keeping faith – sorry that your father is not well… prayers and peace to both of you!
Jen2008,
I do agree that your second rape scenario is more terrorizing, psycologically violent, bizarre and very traumatizing. It is also more physically violent.
I think we are talking here about the intention of the perpetrator and the trauma of the victim.
The intention of the perpetrator is to commit an act that he gets off on so to speak. maybe the perp in the second scenario is a “taller” sociopath (as defined in Liane’s article about how some are taller on the scale than others). Maybe he has more potential at that time or point or something drives him to premeditate the running of the knife and torturous event. In my opinion, they all have potential to escalate their actions, behaviors.
Then there is the victim….. some people are more traumatized by a rape attempt, than others may be through your second scenario of being tortured for hours. How does one judge evil? is it the act that disgusts people who are judging or is it the trauma created to the victim?
I guess I am saying that any behavior that consititutes the abusing, crossing the bounaries of, violating another person, is evil. Some acts are more violent. Just because the XS that i experienced, didn’t steal from me doesn’t make the fact that he lied/cheated/ or possibly stole from others…..make him less evil. And it doesn’t mean i should be less traumatized or be able to get over it faster than someone who was violently raped.
I hope that makes sense.