Remember the Electric Light Orchestra? I couldn’t resist. But I really want to say something about an e”¦evil woman. Actually, not really. I just wanted an excuse to say e..evil woman. Okay, I’ve said it, again. Now I’ve got it out of my system. I’ll stop with that.
But I do want to talk about evil. Evil’s such a dicey word. Evil? What is evil? What really makes someone evil? Do evil people exist?
That is, can someone even be evil: Are people evil, or just their behaviors?
I remember a friend of mine, a close friend, years ago, once called me an “evil m*therf*cker,” and I laughed. Did I laugh because I’m evil, thereby validating his accusation? Or did I laugh because I was secure enough to know I’m not?
By the way, what prompted his accusation was a really cruel, funny practical joke I played on him. I’m afraid he found it much more cruel than funny, whereas I found it much funnier than cruel. (Maybe some other time I’ll describe the joke?)
Speaking of cruel, is there a relationship between evil and cruelty? Are they the same thing? When you’re being cruel, or committing a cruel act, are you being evil? Is the cruelty itself evil?
If you don’t have a headache by now, I do. But that’s okay”¦I’ll even make it worse by posing some more light questions, like: Are exploiters, by definition, evil? Is exploitation always evil? Or, must acts of exploitation reach a certain threshhold of heinousness to constitute evil?
And what about our favorite friends, the sociopaths? Are sociopaths, by definition, evil? Sometimes? Always?
And then, of course, the really ultimate question: Do you really think I’m going to answer these questions?
Do you really think I’m crazy, and grandiose, enough, to tackle these questions?
Maybe I am”¦but I can assure you, not adequately. Still, I will “man up” and offer some “takes” on these heady matters, if for no other purpose than to drum-up some good discussion!
I fully expect, incidentally, your feedback to change my mind on, and views of, these questions many times, exposing (you can be sure) the fickleness of my positions.
But, for the moment, here are my short answers:
I believe people can be evil, not just do evil; in other words, I believe some people are evil.
I believe that evil is always cruel, but that cruelty is not always evil.
I believe that evil is always exploitative, but that exploitation is not always evil.
I believe that evil is always destructive, but that destructiveness is not always evil.
Consistent with these views, I believe that some exploiters and, more specifically, some sociopaths—but not all—are evil.
Now, for my personal working definition of evil, in all its glaring limitations: Evil, as I see it, is the lust to express cruelty towards, and/or destructiveness of, others.
There it is. Note the boldfaced “lust to express;” I regard the “lust” as a central element of evil.
Let me dive right into an elaboration of some of my positions.
Evil is always cruel, but cruelty is not always evil. My view here is that evil, fortunately, is less commonplace than cruelty. Cruelty, however, is tragically commonplace.
Most of us are capable of cruelty, but most of us are not evil. This isn’t to diminish the impact of cruelty. In fact, because cruelty is so commonplace and destructive, it is arguably the worst part of human nature.
But not all cruelty is lust-driven. When cruelty is lust-driven, it is evil. When not, it is something less than evil—although I stress that even this debatable point doesn’t lessen cruelty’s impact one iota.
I think the same applies to “exploitation—”that is, exploitation is cruel, always, but not always evil. Valid or not, this assertion isn’t meant to minimize the potentially traumatic impact of exploitation.
Let me give a relatively benign example: A slick colleague convinces you to lend him $150 cash, promising to pay you back in a couple days. The next day, he’s gone. Has left the job. Quit. Never gave notice. The boss is bewildered, and you are too. You never hear from him again. You knew him well enough (so you thought) to lend him the money, but not, as it turns out, as well as you thought. The money probably bought his Amtrak ticket to Seattle.
You were fleeced. He knew he’d be gone, and he had no intention of honoring his debt. To him, you weren’t so much a nice guy whose generosity he appreciated, as much as, ultimately, a sucker. You were taken. He’s a sociopath.
But he needed the money, and put it to practical use. The problem is, he stole it from you. But he needed the money, and money is money, however he can get his hands on it. Not all sociopaths think like this, but some do.
This sociopath was thinking somewhat pragmatically; he needed the money and schemed to get it. But here’s the point: He didn’t lust for your suffering as much as he lusted for your money. Basically, he was greedy and sociopathically conniving, and so he took what he wanted, not per se to inflict pain or harm on you, but because he wanted it.
In this instance, he is exploitative, in my view, but not evil.
Is he cruel? Not in this example. I define cruel as having an intention to inflict harm or pain on someone. This could be mental, or physical pain. It is arguably cruel, for instance, to dismiss someone contemptuously, and yet it is not necessarily cruel, but is definitely exploitative, to con someone out of $150.
A former client of mine, around 1994, shot-up a bunch of kids at a swimming pool with a semi-automatic weapon. (For my own pathetic ego, I was grateful he waited until about two years after I last saw him.) He’d been dually diagnosed as a psychopath and paranoid schizophrenic. Was he evil? I don’t think so, although I appreciate that those kids, and their families, might have thought so.
In any case, I think he was more paranoid than evil, although he was certainly cruel. I also think that he believed that those kids were evil.
So, in this case, which is not hypothetical, I’d suggest that my ex-client was cruel, but not necessarily evil, or for that matter, even exploitative.
How about a Bernie Madoff? Is Bernie Madoff evil? I don’t think so. Yet he may very well be a sociopath and most certainly was heinously exploitative. Was he cruel? I don’t think so, again. I don’t think it was Madoff’s intention to inflict suffering on anyone. That wasn’t his primary motive to do what he did, despite the devastating impact of his greed and deception.
Regarding cruelty: for me, to be cruel implies, and requires, an intention to cruelty; it is a separate issue whether the consequences of your actions are experienced as cruel. I suspect that Madoff’s victims will describe him as cruel, if only for his indifference. However, I don’t see, from the little that is known about this case, that “cruelty” drove Madoff’s exploitation.
Now let’s tackle some big fish: How about Saddam Hussein and Adolph Hitler?
Hussein, in my view, was both cruel and exploitative, but I’m not sure I’d call him evil. Hussein’s lust was principally for power, less principally (one might argue) evil-driven. His cruelty was more a means to an end—the “end” being the consolidation and preservation of his power, by whatever ruthless means necessary. Was he a sociopath? Very possibly.
Hitler, I think, was cruel, exploitative, and evil. Hitler’s lust transcended his obsession with power; his was a lust to exterminate the Jews and other “non-desirables.” In other words, apart from his pathological lust for power, he also had a lust for cruelty and destruction. The latter meets the criteria of evil.
What do you think? Whatever it is, I’m betting it’ll change my mind?
(This article is copyrighted (c) 2009 by Steve Becker, LCSW.)
Thank you learned……one day at a time!
BTW Jen, It’s all debatable…..that’s the nice thing about being here right? it’s how we learn!
The odd thing about these disorders and sociopathy is that when we evaluate how “criminal” “evil” “cruel” these people are….it’s easier for us to understand if the act is violent, physically harmful, torturous, or illegal……..
yet the most harm caused by these individuals, in many of our cases, has stemmed from the longer term ambiet abuse from their pathalogical lies, sob stories, deceit, cheating, name calling and overall manipulation that occurred over time.
The emotional and psychological harm that this longer term and LESS OBVIOUS abuse has caused is harder for us to recognize. The post trauma is devastating and should not be minimized or forgotten. That kind of spiritual and emotional pain can be more harmful sometimes than a broken arm.
I am not trying to overdramatize and certainly I feel as though my situation is so mild compared to what most have endured at the hands of these people. Let’s not forget that evil comes in many forms.
I’m way behind and am posting in response to what Kathleen wrote. I don’t think transformation is always the answer. I really don’t think we all need to transform. Sometimes all we needed was knowledge that not all people are human, and to pay more attention to the red flags. That’s it. I’ve thought about it a lot and there are a lot of strengths that come from my past-abusive driven behaviors. Though I have given it up, I was good at undercover work because I learned as a child to numb myself to stay calm in the presence of cruelty, to keep my reactions to myself, and how to mold myself to please an abuser. As a result, I’ve helped to put felons in jail, for extremely cruel acts that needed to be documented with a hidden camera. And right now, I’m in a field where there is a lot of strong personalities and I have to get them to cooperate, and again, my ability to not react personally and emotionally is a strength. So is my ability to read what others want. The only difference is now I am fully aware of what I’m doing and have my guard up for anyone who may not be worthy of my trust or people I need to avoid, etc. Maybe that is transformation, but I’ve accepted what abused did to me, which at this point seems like it has morphed into a lot of positive traits that have helped me to succeed. People confide in me all the time and I don’t betray their trust (unless they are bad guys!). A wide-variety of people like me. I feel pretty good about who I am, and I’m not that different from the person who got off the path with a P, I’m just wiser about who to trust. And wiser about negative patterns in my life that I have tended to repeat, but I feel good that those patterns only emerge around evil people. Those same patterns and behaviors are pluses around most people . Don’t know if this makes any sense, but I guess I like to focus on the pluses of who I am, accept myself, and am not focused on growing or determined to change.
OXDROVER you said this ,A “conscience” must be “trained” into a child. No one is born with it fully developed. WHAT is trained into the child that is “bad” for them to do depends on culture etc. The Ps may have had their “training” but they don’t ACCEPT that training internally. Other children do .
I totally disagree with this . It would assume that we are born evil and that we are all psychopaths at birth . Would it not . When I was in my early 20s I realised that I had to uncondition myself . Not that my parents were bad or anything but just that to many stupid things had influenced my life without me realiseing it . I travelled the world for 3 years on a shoe string . I worked along the the way from time to time so as to get enough money to carry on . Three times I ran out of money in countries that were not my own .Believe me , when you are in situations like this your senses are heightened and you realise things that most people never even get to contemplate . One thing I do notice about myself is that if something effects me profoundly I will pursue the understanding of that thing or event to the extreme . A psychopath effected me in ways that I would never have dreamed possible . What I also realise now is that the psychopath connection is fundamental to the whole human condition . It is an important part of the whole puzzle of human existance and if we fail to understand it we are all doomed to become psychopath victims on some level . What we are conditioned to believe about all sorts of things , whether it be history , religion , politics , ethics , death etc …etc is for the most part a load of rubbish . They should be teaching this stuff in schools , but of course they don’t because the psychopaths in power do not want us to realise who they are
Justabouthealed – Sounds like you are really ahead in the healing process. ! Positive post, inspiring. Look forward to focusing on the pluses of who I am once I work out the kinks of who I was and what I unknowingly contributed to a dysfunctional relationship so I can grow and change and create who I want to be.
I think you described a transformation of yourself when you said your are NOW fully aware of what you are doing… and you NOW avoid, guard, self-trust and accept what abuse did to you. And morphed (transformed) all the negative into positives to help you succeed!! Thanks for sharing!!
Dear Quest,
No, I don’t mean a child is born a “psychopath” at all, but when a child is born he just “is” and it IS ALL ABOUT HIMSELF, and that is the normal stage of development. He expects 100% care from others, he needs 100% care from others, but slowly s/he starts to smile, to develop bonds, to see a particular face as “Mom” or “dad” and to develop language.
Still, the child does not “give back” expect some feed back, smiles, etc. s/he still expects and requires others to care for them…as they grow and start to interact with others, they decide they want a toy that another child has so they hit the other child, the mom says, “No, Johnny, you share with Joey, when you hit him it hurts.” So eventually this shows Johnny that Joey also has feelings.
So as Johnny grows, mom and dad and the culture show him what is acceptable behavior and what isn’t. At some time Johnny begins to INTERNALIZE THIS, to accept this as right and to empathize with Joey. When Joey stubs his toe and cries, Johnny goes over and tries to comfort him. This is the development of empathy and conscience, because if Johnny gets angry at Joey and hits him, Johnny will “feel bad” that he did this thing that Hurt Joey. So WHAT is right and wrong in a particular culture is trained into our minds by our parents.
Whether or not we accept this training or resist it, or have EMPATHY for others, depends on US. The psychopath gets the idea that he will get punished if he hits Joey, but he doesn’t care, he wants the toy that joey has and if he can’t get it any other way, too bad, KLONK, he hits Joey. When mom says “did you hit joey?” He LIES and says no. He knows that mom think lies are “bad” and if he gets caught lying he will get into trouble, but he just wants out of the punishment for hitting Joey. He feels entitled to the toy and what mom thinks about “good or bad” behavior doesn’t matter to him.
Joey, on the other hand would willingly share his toy with other children (after a certain age where this task is internalized) but Little Johnny Psychopath to be, just wants what he wants when he wants it. He refines his skills in hiding his real intentions and wa-la@.......! a Psychopath is born.
What is “right” and “wrong” is different in different cultures, for example, Quest, I traveled the world for a few years in my younger days as a wild life photographer. In one are where we were, if twins were born to a couple, the people thought that there could only be one “soul” per birth and one of those children didn’t have a soul, and since they coldn’t tell which one, the two children were BOTH placed on the path where the cattle would come in in the evening and the CATTLE would “do away with” both chldren, the wone with the soul and the one without the soul (a witch) as well, so the hands of the parents and the tribe were “clean” because the CATTLE put them to death. This was a good thing, the right thing, for them to do, and their consciences were “clean” because that is how they had been trained.
A conscience, I think is simply the ability to have a set of VALUEs and to adhere to them because you care about doing what is “right” and don’t want to do what is “wrong”—how do we learn what is right and wrong? We aren’t born with the knowledge that hitting someone is “wrong” we have to be told and shown what is right and what is wrong. Only when we violate what our conscience says is “wrong” does it “prick” us and say “you’ve been bad, don’t do that again.”
Just like the Apostle Paul helped persecute the early Christians, including St. Stephen’s stoning, but his CONSCIENCE was always pure, because when he was doing those things, the thought he was doing GOOD, later, he decided that the Christians were right and his conscience’s “rules” were changed.
Well oxdrover I guess the next question is , is a psychopath born or are they a product of up bringing ????
Dear Quest,
If you will go back through some of the articles here in the blog you will find that there is GREAT EVIDENCE medically that the psychopaths are BORN, that genetics has a GREAT dealto do with the Psychopathic mind….just as some people tend to be depressed, bi-polar etc which are chemical imbalances in the brain or chemical “differences” at least,
The psychoopaths know “right” from “wrong” they just don’t care. I don’t say that they have NO choice or that they are the “bad seed” per se, but medical evidence is mounting more and more that many if not most “mental illnesses” are genetic just as diabetes is primarily genetic but also has environmental triggers for those genes to activate. Ditto “alcoholism” which is genetic TENDENCY and if environment supplies ETOH then the person becomes an “alcoholic.”
Good morning to all:
Just signing in quickly- off to D’s percussion perforamnce again today and son has started baseball -and he loved it. Sports are new for him at 10 yrs old but it has been a great experience – wrestling was perfect for his confidence and already baseball is going well – so my heart is relieved for that.
I struggle so much with looking at my NSH as EVIL – but certainly he has no regard for any of us. He APPEARS to love our son and professes to love our daughter yet he has no idea how to mend his relationship with her. I suspect he feels she has to come to him. And I don’t see that happening anytime soon. She has known for a long time that he isn’t RIGHT , he is selfish etc. She was a big motivator for me to finally after 22 years stop taking his garbage.
Anyway, they have no relationship and besides what she has seen outwardly I now believe she has seen his deviant side also. She spent time in his office on the computer and came home this past summer upset she had come across a file of pictures of other women – she would not discuss it any further. So now, after receiving his documents for divorce – my God, the man not only cheated in the affairs I knew about but he was on sick and disgusting web-sites for cheaters. Somehow this didgusts me even more -I think because I excused away the affairs saying to myself he was weak, the circumstance was perfect for temptaion – yes I know I was fooling myself.
But to now find out he was deliberately trolling married women for sex – while he was home, while we were separated and while he was BACK home – I want to vomit with every thought.
I fear this is what my little darling teen came across – and this is more than shje should have to bare. But his illness is now more evident to me – yet I feel no less a fool.
Is he sick -evil – born like this – his mother ‘s fault??? We will never know – and how does God deal with them when all is said and done?
He must know he is wrong – but shows no sign of seeing anyone else’s perspective. He just fired his foreman and now calls him for favors!!!! Yet this is the man who once told me he had no use for a man who had the power to take away another mans ability to work and feed his family and now he has done it himself!!! To a friend of 30 years – all of a sudden he is not a good worker and a problem. BUT – I KNOW WHY HE DID IT – because the poor guy got too close to who my husband really is – and he cares for me and the kids.
SO is this evil??? It is at least as Steve said – cruel to do this – to a friend and someone you owe a lot of money to !!!!
ALSO – so important – Mr. Steve Becker is AWESOME !!!!
Kind, caring , insightful, dynamic and as you would suspect – not afraid to speak bluntly – loud and clear – just what I need right now!!!!!
I look forward to feeling like a human being again – it has been way too long!!!!!