Remember the Electric Light Orchestra? I couldn’t resist. But I really want to say something about an e”¦evil woman. Actually, not really. I just wanted an excuse to say e..evil woman. Okay, I’ve said it, again. Now I’ve got it out of my system. I’ll stop with that.
But I do want to talk about evil. Evil’s such a dicey word. Evil? What is evil? What really makes someone evil? Do evil people exist?
That is, can someone even be evil: Are people evil, or just their behaviors?
I remember a friend of mine, a close friend, years ago, once called me an “evil m*therf*cker,” and I laughed. Did I laugh because I’m evil, thereby validating his accusation? Or did I laugh because I was secure enough to know I’m not?
By the way, what prompted his accusation was a really cruel, funny practical joke I played on him. I’m afraid he found it much more cruel than funny, whereas I found it much funnier than cruel. (Maybe some other time I’ll describe the joke?)
Speaking of cruel, is there a relationship between evil and cruelty? Are they the same thing? When you’re being cruel, or committing a cruel act, are you being evil? Is the cruelty itself evil?
If you don’t have a headache by now, I do. But that’s okay”¦I’ll even make it worse by posing some more light questions, like: Are exploiters, by definition, evil? Is exploitation always evil? Or, must acts of exploitation reach a certain threshhold of heinousness to constitute evil?
And what about our favorite friends, the sociopaths? Are sociopaths, by definition, evil? Sometimes? Always?
And then, of course, the really ultimate question: Do you really think I’m going to answer these questions?
Do you really think I’m crazy, and grandiose, enough, to tackle these questions?
Maybe I am”¦but I can assure you, not adequately. Still, I will “man up” and offer some “takes” on these heady matters, if for no other purpose than to drum-up some good discussion!
I fully expect, incidentally, your feedback to change my mind on, and views of, these questions many times, exposing (you can be sure) the fickleness of my positions.
But, for the moment, here are my short answers:
I believe people can be evil, not just do evil; in other words, I believe some people are evil.
I believe that evil is always cruel, but that cruelty is not always evil.
I believe that evil is always exploitative, but that exploitation is not always evil.
I believe that evil is always destructive, but that destructiveness is not always evil.
Consistent with these views, I believe that some exploiters and, more specifically, some sociopaths—but not all—are evil.
Now, for my personal working definition of evil, in all its glaring limitations: Evil, as I see it, is the lust to express cruelty towards, and/or destructiveness of, others.
There it is. Note the boldfaced “lust to express;” I regard the “lust” as a central element of evil.
Let me dive right into an elaboration of some of my positions.
Evil is always cruel, but cruelty is not always evil. My view here is that evil, fortunately, is less commonplace than cruelty. Cruelty, however, is tragically commonplace.
Most of us are capable of cruelty, but most of us are not evil. This isn’t to diminish the impact of cruelty. In fact, because cruelty is so commonplace and destructive, it is arguably the worst part of human nature.
But not all cruelty is lust-driven. When cruelty is lust-driven, it is evil. When not, it is something less than evil—although I stress that even this debatable point doesn’t lessen cruelty’s impact one iota.
I think the same applies to “exploitation—”that is, exploitation is cruel, always, but not always evil. Valid or not, this assertion isn’t meant to minimize the potentially traumatic impact of exploitation.
Let me give a relatively benign example: A slick colleague convinces you to lend him $150 cash, promising to pay you back in a couple days. The next day, he’s gone. Has left the job. Quit. Never gave notice. The boss is bewildered, and you are too. You never hear from him again. You knew him well enough (so you thought) to lend him the money, but not, as it turns out, as well as you thought. The money probably bought his Amtrak ticket to Seattle.
You were fleeced. He knew he’d be gone, and he had no intention of honoring his debt. To him, you weren’t so much a nice guy whose generosity he appreciated, as much as, ultimately, a sucker. You were taken. He’s a sociopath.
But he needed the money, and put it to practical use. The problem is, he stole it from you. But he needed the money, and money is money, however he can get his hands on it. Not all sociopaths think like this, but some do.
This sociopath was thinking somewhat pragmatically; he needed the money and schemed to get it. But here’s the point: He didn’t lust for your suffering as much as he lusted for your money. Basically, he was greedy and sociopathically conniving, and so he took what he wanted, not per se to inflict pain or harm on you, but because he wanted it.
In this instance, he is exploitative, in my view, but not evil.
Is he cruel? Not in this example. I define cruel as having an intention to inflict harm or pain on someone. This could be mental, or physical pain. It is arguably cruel, for instance, to dismiss someone contemptuously, and yet it is not necessarily cruel, but is definitely exploitative, to con someone out of $150.
A former client of mine, around 1994, shot-up a bunch of kids at a swimming pool with a semi-automatic weapon. (For my own pathetic ego, I was grateful he waited until about two years after I last saw him.) He’d been dually diagnosed as a psychopath and paranoid schizophrenic. Was he evil? I don’t think so, although I appreciate that those kids, and their families, might have thought so.
In any case, I think he was more paranoid than evil, although he was certainly cruel. I also think that he believed that those kids were evil.
So, in this case, which is not hypothetical, I’d suggest that my ex-client was cruel, but not necessarily evil, or for that matter, even exploitative.
How about a Bernie Madoff? Is Bernie Madoff evil? I don’t think so. Yet he may very well be a sociopath and most certainly was heinously exploitative. Was he cruel? I don’t think so, again. I don’t think it was Madoff’s intention to inflict suffering on anyone. That wasn’t his primary motive to do what he did, despite the devastating impact of his greed and deception.
Regarding cruelty: for me, to be cruel implies, and requires, an intention to cruelty; it is a separate issue whether the consequences of your actions are experienced as cruel. I suspect that Madoff’s victims will describe him as cruel, if only for his indifference. However, I don’t see, from the little that is known about this case, that “cruelty” drove Madoff’s exploitation.
Now let’s tackle some big fish: How about Saddam Hussein and Adolph Hitler?
Hussein, in my view, was both cruel and exploitative, but I’m not sure I’d call him evil. Hussein’s lust was principally for power, less principally (one might argue) evil-driven. His cruelty was more a means to an end—the “end” being the consolidation and preservation of his power, by whatever ruthless means necessary. Was he a sociopath? Very possibly.
Hitler, I think, was cruel, exploitative, and evil. Hitler’s lust transcended his obsession with power; his was a lust to exterminate the Jews and other “non-desirables.” In other words, apart from his pathological lust for power, he also had a lust for cruelty and destruction. The latter meets the criteria of evil.
What do you think? Whatever it is, I’m betting it’ll change my mind?
(This article is copyrighted (c) 2009 by Steve Becker, LCSW.)
Oxy had an excellent point about “evil” being specific to time, place, and culture. Culturally, it was once politically correct to hang so-called witches. By today’s standards, some of those women would just be considered outspoken, or even healers. So was it evil to hang those women? Or were the women themselves evil? If we rounded up all the sociopaths in society and burned them at the stake, would we be considered heroes or evil? I think that depends on whether you ask a LF member or not. 🙂
We throw the word “evil” around a lot. When I think of a truly evil person, I have the image of the Flagg character in Stephen King’s “Eye of the Tiger”. Did anybody read that? He was an evil magician who was an ancient soul. He continued to get reborn into one evil incarnation after another for the purpose of stirring up chaos and destroying all that is good in the kingdom. He wore a long black wizard’s robe and pretended to befriend those he was trying to destroy. I believe these types do understand the consequences of their actions and genuinely take pleasure in the downfall of others. This is an archetypal image of evil that comes up repeatedly in fairy tales throughout the years (wicked witch, etc.).
I didn’t get to know my ex-SP past the two months we dated. But I don’t believe him to be evil in that particular way, enjoying inflicting pain on others, trying to cause chaos. I believe he is one of those sociopaths who believes his own lies to be true in the moment. He actually believed he was in love with me, even though he didn’t understand what actions would back that up. This type of sociopath has a disconnect between his words and actions. To me, this is a byproduct of the disorder. I don’t think he is intentionally malicious. I think he just doesn’t care past the moment at which times his feelings are switched off or go in a different direction. I personally don’t understand it. I find him and people like him dangerous and wish nothing to do with them. But I don’t know if I’d use the label “evil”.
I think there is a difference between lacking empathy and intentionally bringing harm on others. I don’t think my S ever wished any harm on me while playing his games. I think the game playing is just what he does. I think he honestly does not understand why people react with anger to his lies and deceptions. There is some sort of disconnect there.
I don’t think there is anything inherently wrong with enjoying power, sex, or money. To some extent, we all enjoy those things. The problem is when you have to harm others to get these things. So the question is, is the harm intentional? Or is it just a byproduct of lacking empathy?
IMHO, from all the pain, PTSD, emotional rape, etc. that most all of us here at LF have endured & escaped from, I feel the only word to describe these creatures is… evil. Human beings just don’t treat other people with such cruelty. The s’s of this world have one goal-to create chaos for their victims. A reference was made in an earlier post about a character from Stephen King (Randall Flagg, The Dark Man, The Walkin’ Dude), & I think he he an appropriate description of the s’s of the world. I used to read a lot of books by King, & Flagg was in quite a few of them. He was evil incarnate, with one purpose- to create total chaos & hurt as many as possible. He was the ultimate lie. I think s’s are very much aware of the harm they inflict, & that it is totally intentional.
WELCOME BACK OXY!!!! You were truly missed by all of us!
I agree AND disagree with you both…how is that for a “definite maybe”? LOL
There are some people who are more N-ish, than P-ish, and they take what they want, without any intention of harming you, they just don’t NOTICE that you are hurt, or understand why you would be hurt that they ate the last piece of cake and you had had none, and they knew it.
The other end of this continuium though are the Ted Bundy’s of this world, who ENJOY causing pain, trauma, fear and death to their victims, who “get off on,” as it were, not just getting “sex” by rape and torture, but THAT IS THE “HIGH” for them, the pain, fear etc.
So I think in people at least there are “levels” of intentions as well as “levels” of the pain that is caused by their actions.
I know that I have unintentionally at times hurt others, not being aware that my actions/words would cause pain in others.
I know that I have also intentionally caused pain for others by saying things I knew would hurt them.
However, because I do have a conscience, and empathy, I make efforts to NOT do pain intentionally or unintentionally.
Sometimes setting a boundary causes someone else to be upset that I have “overturned their apple cart” by not doing what they wanted me to do, or allowing them to do to me what they wanted to do. I don’t think that is “evil” though I did/do cause them to be upset at me because I set a boundary.
The “Ted Bundys” of this world (the ones who enjoy torture and pain in others) cause an untold amount of pain for others. If they get into positions of high power and control (as in over countries etc) they can devestate whole regions of the world. Saadam is an example for me. Hitler, etc.
Thanks,Sstiles, I think we posted OVER each other! Yea, I went into LF “withdrawl” and all that was left to do was work and clean house for 8 straight hours as it was too miserable most of the time to be outside. LOL I missed you guys terribly!
Dear NewLife,
Glad to hear you are enjoying bits and pieces of life with you kids and that they are thriving out there ! Sorry for the imbalance of parenting he demonstrates between your two children. Your daughters sound llike a strong young lady! Possibly best for your daughter to not be around him anyway. But just a lose-lose for her either way. Thank goodness she has you and her brother…
About knowing they are wrong – I believe alot of them just live in their own world – and never really grasp or indulge themselves in their path of destruction…so much so, that if they ever need a favor, they are easily able to turn to someone that have burned and ask them for a “favor”, or even put the mask on again (ie the apologies, mr. poor me, mr. nice guy…until they weasle their way back and get their fix of whatever it is that they need to sustain themselves…
And you are so right when you said in essence when others are on to them, or give them a hard time, or question them, or turn against them or dare to stick up for themselves — these monsters will either continue to manipulate and control you even more or if feeling threatened they will drop you like a hot potatoe – disappear – run away…unfortunately all too often, they return with their mask or but sometimes still off – to cause their victims more eventual/continued pain and suffering.
Wow, Newlife, so so so glad to hear Steve is not evil!!! LOL He sounds like he will be of great help and support to you as you work towards your new life as well as feeling like a human being again! Stay strong and stay focused – you are receiving great guidance and advice from Steve.
Take care of yourself!!!
Stargazer , There is no disconnect , Psychopaths are cunning beyond what most people can comprehend . When a psychopath contradicts his or herself I believe they are fully aware of that contradiction , they are just hoping that their victim will not notice . Also this is all part of the plan to shut the victim down emotionally and intellectually . They have an agenda that for most of us does not make any sense . They are not looking for a relationship they are looking for a prisoner , whether it be physical or mental . It took me 18 months to realise I was under attack psychologically . This reminds me of an incident that I may have told before but will tell it again . Me and my X were still together at the time and we were having an argument in the kitchen . My Xs daughter came through from the lounge to see what we were argueing about . At this moment my X went to the toilet . At the time the daughter was 13 years old . once her mother was out of ear shot she whispered to me ” Let it go just let it go” . Of course I was not going to let it go and I told her ” Not untill we get to the bottom of this bullshit .” She then whispered
” She just wants you to be afraid of her , don’t you get it .”
Well at the time ,no I did not get it, as it made no sense why she would want me to be afraid of her . What I realised latter was that that 13 year old new her mother very well and she was trying to educate me . Incidently The child was the most intraverted 13 year old I had ever met and had a lot of trouble socializing with other kids . AS far as I can now remember the child did not appear to be a psychopath but was certainly a victim . I guess that what I am getting at here is that a psychopath does not have mental problems like a some disturbed people , they know what they are doing and they are doing it for a reason . I have read many times that psychopaths seem to have a poor grasp of reality and that maybe they do not know when they are lying . I don’t believe these ideas . Psychopaths are a force to be reconded , if you think for one minute that they are deficient in inteligence in some way you are kidding yourself . Their main deficiency is in the inability to love . The rest of it , the way they communicate etc is all for a reason . They are looking for another sucker 24 , 7 . To them other people are there to be exploited in any way that the psychopath sees fit . If you feel any sympathy for one, then they have won the battle.
Quest – Once again I have to say Bravo~~!!! Yep I was under attack physhologically and was his prisoner in my own home. I talked to his mother ( who I never met ) and she warned me that I did not want to get involved with him because he was a booger and she apologized for his behavior but said he could not come to her as she could not do anything with him..In a way this made me feel even more sorry for my X – he had no one, no friends no family and here I was trying to get him out of my house…But I must say I do not feel any sympathy for him now, and yes I was afraid of him when he was hear and I still look over my shoulder even at one year no contact.
Quest: I agree with your alarm over the behavior of the psychopath, the manipulation and control games. HOWEVER, having known some very bad ones, and at least one who I would say is among the worst of the worst, I see — with the clarity of some distance for my hindsight — that they were less intelligent and less strategic than I thought. What they “wanted” was so very, very different from normal, that it always blindsided me. It wasn’t their intelligence; their twisted motivations caught me off guard because I couldn’t understand that ANYONE would think like that.
Your description of the 13-yr-old is heartbreaking. This is a hideous example of the way that a “below the radar” psychopath will abuse children. That any child should have to learn that kind of interpretation of twisted behavior is child abuse in and of itself.
This is more than the inability to love. It also includes an incomprehensible (to me) thrill off of hurting others, manipulating, making them get angry, disappointed, sad, or even happy — so that they can then get the thrill of ripping the happiness away.
I think we credit them with “intelligence” that we shouldn’t. If they thought rationally, even with “greed” as a motivator, it would make sense. But who could live from a motivation of creating pain? Only a psychopath. It isn’t even “exploitation” in the way we usually think about it. It’s more like creating pointless harm. If they stay looking “normal” for awhile, it’s so they can slide into positions of trust so they can do MORE damage!
We have to remember — they are crazy. They are CRAZY. They do not think straight, and act from motivations that the rest of us understand. THEY ARE CRAZY! They just know how to look like “normal” enough of the time that we are fooled.
Well said, Rune! They are completely, utterly crazy.