I love my wikipedia. I learn a lot I didn’t know and I refine my thinking by finding fault too. (The problem is knowing what is worth learning and what needs unlearning!)
Consider the wikipedia definition of evil:
Evil is generally defined as any activity which takes advantage of another person for one’s own benefit….(In contrast, good is helping others, even sometimes self-sacrificially; see saint, sainthood.)
There’s something dodgy about the form of this definition and also something very familiar about its implications. For one thing, it fits with the the lable ‘anti-social’ which refers to behaviour which has ill effects, but good intentions – “well, in his culture that behaviour is normal”. Whatever happened to ill intent, though? (For another thing, what’s the counterpart to sainthood?)
According to this view all employers are evil because they necessarily pay their employees less than they earn (‘necessarily’ because otherwise there would be no profit).
The definition attempts to define evil by contrasting it with good. So far so, um, good. But then it weighs them up wrongly, and we are left with a picture of evil that is indistinguishable from graspingness and greed. According to this view evil might have ill effects on the other, but that is not the intention; its primary intention is to gain advantage.
This is a fine example of how thinking about evil can go askew. (And, I suspect, thinking about good too.)
By re-balancing the wording of the above definition another meaning of evil becomes clear.
If good is helping another (possibly involving self-sacrifice) then it follows that evil is harming another (possibly involving self-benefit).
This is all the difference in the world. Now we can see the true intention of evil – it is to do harm. Evil is only secondarily about want, appetite, greed, jealousy; it’s true nature is malevolence, envy, cruelty, viciousness. Indeed, for evil the getting of things is happily foregone if what is primary can be achieved: power over another.
What say you?
Tea Light,
Thank you.It was such a relief to know that things were finally rolling financially!But the STRANGEST thing happened when I learned that spath would no longer get more than enough SSI than to pay for his phone.I actually felt a little sad for him!I never was a vindictive person,but the longer I had to wait to get things settled with Social Security,the more time I had to think about me instead of him.It’s good he’s in a nursing home.Honestly,that’s the best place for him since his health isn’t good.Although I’d heard he’d lost alot of weight,it didn’t look like it to me,the one time I saw him at a congregation meeting.And he still uses his wheelchair more than the rollator.
Anyway,done with him~on with me,lol!You never realize how well you’re NOT doing until things aren’t going good~like today!I want to find a little cubby hole and have complete silence!I haven’t had my Cymbalta for 4 days and I’m getting jittery.It wasn’t the best time to have my granddaughter over,but she wanted to spend the day….and then the night sounded even better to her!She is a dear,but she is hyperactive,which just wears me out.It also makes me nervous,especially as the house(actually small apt) gets cluttered with her messes.
lifting the veil,
Your story makes me want to cry.NOBODY HAS THE RIGHT to abuse another,whether it is physical,mental or emotional,etc.You’re right,there is a difference between bad and evil.None of us are perfect,we all have some bad traits;some have more than others.But when a person acts like the Devil,laughing at the harm and the chaos they have caused others….that is EVIL.
I’m glad you’ve decided you have to go No Contact with spath.It truly is the only way for you to heal!As long as you hear her voice,literally,or through emails or texts,you will be ‘haunted’ by her presence…it will be as if the abuse is continuing.
Do not worry about what she has said about your counseling working.It wasn’t really about that anyway.She was exuberant about getting a ‘rise’ out you,seeing you get angry made her feel ‘better’ about herself.I remember my husband being pleased whenever I would raise my voice or even my hand.It was like he wanted to place as many burrs under me as he could!Happy healing!
thanks blossom4th,
i could write a book on the amount of abusive letters and texts i have gotten in the past 3 years…..
she often revealled i telling me ,she had destroyed my life and i would never get over what she did……
i have an amazing councellor who a few weeks ago helped me pass a deep point to let go…..she helped me delete my ex number from my phone…and she guided me to delete all text messages that i had kept as i kept re reading them just so i could see the horrible things she was saying to me so i could keep reminding myself i needed to see the type of person she was……it was a very hard thing to do to delete her number but cause i dont have it now im less inclined to think i can have contact…and would i want to now?
the longer i go no contact the more time i have to heal the more i see her for what she is.
i cant say i didnt see that before..there were signs…i excepted lies in the relationship and in doing that i set myelf up…..she saw she could lie about small stuff and what i didnt know was the big things were all lies too….thing is when your with someone for so long you are blind you want to believe the best in them….
we were together 16 years,so alot of tears for the loss.
but from the start i was the one who looked after her,paid for everything,she never worked in 16 years..was always ill…if it wasnt a migrane headache it was a suspected heart atttack….and if wasnt a broken bone it was a panic attack….she was constantly up to the doctors,of course i looked after her cause i loved her…i paid for everything….bought her clothes,paid all the bills……i gave..u see……thats what i did wrong…..i gave to much and she saw me coming……
after the relationship ended i found out she had lied about everything….
she lied to me about haveing cancer for years…..it has tore my heart out blossom4th.
one night i had come home from work and she told me she had bad news for me…..she told me she had cancer…..melanoma….and she would have to have treatment….i was always in work so she would go to the treatment on her own….she said she wanted to do this herself…..she started to lose her hair and i would find clumps of it on her pillow in the morning and i would hide it so she wouldnt think she was lossing her hair….and she would say to me……do u think im losing my hair and id say no of course not you look great……..well after i found out the cancer was a lie i asked her about the hair on her pillow…..and as cool as you like she told me……oh i used to just cut it and leave it there for you to find……how cruel can someone be..ill never ever understand how a woman could do that…
well this cancer went on for 5 months…she asked me to shave off her hair and she wore a bandana for the whole time..everyone was praying for her,cards…all the attention…i was so sick with worry and sad and i tried to do my best looking after her and working…..then she went into remission and i was so happy….
then she would talk about going for her blood tests every month and what her white blood cell count was…..she knew everything….had all the information.
then she told me she was worried about a lump on her neck….so i told her if your worried get it checked and within a few days she came to me and told me its was bad news..told me she had been diagnosed with hodgkins lymphoma…again all the lingo…….i was devasted as i didnt think i could go through it again……i thought this time im going to face losing her…as my father died of cancer and it only brought thoughts of dying……..well this cancer lasted over 2 years……again wore a bandana all the time..was sick all the time…me worried sick…she wrote her will…told me what she wanted for her funeral..we went to the cememtry and we talked about where she wanted to be buried…..all such painful stuff…cause i loved her……..i nursed her all the time and she looked like she had cancer..no hair,eyebrows gone..thin…….
then she went into remission….and we had a party to celebrate….i was soooo happy…..and she told me she couldnt have any children due to the chemo…..and over the few years before we broke up she would tell me constantly about her check ups with the doctors and her blood cell count…..rhe cancer was always a fear of coming back….
i found out about it myself….through doing my own investigations…i had started to question everything due to the hurrendous breakup i had..her being violent and many many suicide attempts….and when she lied to me about being pregnant and sent me a picture of a baby scan and then told me she had a miscarriage and i found out the truth that she wasnt that she only made it up..i started to dig deep and wanted to find out the truth..but i wasnt prepared for all i uncovered…
every story,every thing she ever told me a lie….
when she had cancer she took nearly 4,000 in cash out of my visa card and lied about it..hid the bills and eventually admitted it but her excuse was she had cancer and thought she was going to die and she wanted to enjoy herself…..i never saw one sent of that money…..and i had to get a loan out to pay it back.
then over the years strange things were happening in my house…..id get up in the morning and pictures were turned upside down and writing on the walls and lights turned on and mad stuff happening and i thought the the house was haunted…i was scared…couldnt sleep…and she played into the whole thing….being there for me….only thing is i found out it was her….it was all her…she was doing that…and do you know her excuse…….she said she was bored…..and she wanted excitement in her life……..only thing is she was playing games with my life…..those were real experiences for me…..only they werent now.
i received 2 threatening notes over the years and i went to the police with them.never once thought they were from her…..but turns out they were….
one night i was in work and i got a call from her to tell me a brick had been put through out livingroom window..i was frantic….my elderly mother was in the room….the police were called and i had to get the window boarded up and replaced the next day…….
again i only recently found out from her though i suspected yes it was her that threw the brick threw the window..
my god i lived in fear and she was just sitting back and laughting…..no wonder she thought i am a fool..cause i believed everything.
anyways everything was lies…everything…..so i have struggled with the hurt of it…..especially the cancer……when i asked her why she lied about the cancer her excuse was she wanted attention………and then it was another excuse about oweing a money lender money and if she pretended she was going to die he would forget the debt…all rubbish i know now……
no excuse ever good enough for me.
i held her in my arms at night and sang her to sleep thinking i would be burying her…..and she let me go throught that…for years….and after when i found out she told me she would never have told me……and that maybe she would have had the cancer again if it suited her……oh my god ill never understand it…i loved her…im so hurt and angry now..
i left for another reason and i regretted leaving and beat myself up…..i left because i was tired of being the carer and the mammy and i was tired of giving and nothing ever coming back….turns out it was yes a devine intervention that got me out of that relationship…only i have mourned her loss with deep sadness…..
when i found lovefraud i found out what she is…..and i am truely greatful for this site..i have found strength and knowledge and wisdom here and over the past few years though i have been in a very deep dark place i am coming to terms with what she did but i dont have to accept it…i didnt deserve what she did to me……….
none of us deserve to be treated badly…………..i question every single thing that happened in those 16 years now and am numb and often feel like i dont know what happened..i thought i was a good person …i am…….but i have to learn from this experience and grow otherwise it will all have been for nothing and it will have consumed me…
some days im so angry and all i do is cry and others i feel im getting better……
its a slow process……but yes NO CONTACT …is the first step.
good night ..
Lifting the veil, your story is very touching. After all you have been through, it is accurate to say you are most definitely a good person.
Should you feel the need to vent further, or if you would like additional emotional support, please feel free to visit my site at
http://learus.wordpress.com/category/the-sociopath-a-social-terrorist/
There are many shared stories on this site as well. We are very supportive of one another as we all go through the journey of healing from our experiences. Good luck to you, and keep your head up high. It gets easier as the days go by 🙂
lifting the veil,
I just kept shaking my head as I read your story.You have been through sooooo much!!! It is incomprehensible that a person would pretend to be dying with a terminal illness in order to gain the pity,attention and financial gain from others!How dare she do that when so many are suffering and struggling for survival!
I was a caregiver too.I took care of him as long as I could.We were together 23 yrs out of 28.But it finally wore me down.He weighed atleast 200 lbs more than me and I had no help.And I was sleep deprived.But the worst of it was all those yrs with a sociopath!
Just take one day at a time.Healing is quite a journey.There is no set time.You’ve been through alot of trauma.I’m glad you have a good counselor.Writing about your feelings the way you did in your posts,is often very helpful.In fact,that was one of my counselor’s first suggestions.Take care.
Lifting the Veil, my heart goes out to you. Would you perhaps think of writing your story in an email to Donna? I think it should be an article on the site, a very extreme example of so many psychpathic behaviours. The gaslighting had me shaking my head at what this disordered personality did. Stay away from her. She is a profoundly sick individual and you cannot help her or cure her or change her. Much peace and love to you as you move forward towards an abusé free future Lifting.
Good morning .
Blossom4th,tea light,learus ohnine and another victim thank you for your words.i want to write more to u all but I’m tied up for time as have to pretend life is ok and go to work .
Very down last night.and hit a low this morning.
Sometimes I think I can’t do this. Can’t get over what she did.
Ill come back and post tonight.
Blessings to you all.
Yes you can Lifting. You can. The basic files are No contact, self care, knowledge of what you are dealing with ( an untreatable disordered personality) and then just throw some time at it. Be strong. Know that she ends and you begin. You are not bound to this individuel legally . Begin to define yourself as a person entirely seperate from her, with radically different values and expectations and needs. You can recover. And we’ll support you in your fight to do so. Peace and love to you.
lifting the veil,
You are exhausted and traumatized.But you CAN and WILL heal.Instead of focusing on WHAT WAS,focus on NOW-ONE DAY AT A TIME.Heal yourself through things that make you feel happy.Seek friendships with healthy people.
~Happy Healing! ~
blossom4th…….
thank you for your kind words….you are so truely wise……….i guess you too have been to the darkest place and its only cause you understand that you can share your wisdom…..i am tired……i am tired of being sad……..tired of the regrets on my part……..tired of the tears and the sick feeling of darkness touching my life……..tired of being afraid………tired of being afraid to trust again…….tired of being afraid to love again….tired of being afraid to get hurt………..tired of the loss of my ex……….tired of feeling ashamed of how i handled things……tired of feeling i am guilty of hurting my ex but i never meant to………..thats the difference between me and her………i never meant to hurt her whereas she hurt me deliberately and without concern for my wellbeing………
and yes im traumatized by all that the breakup brought………..the violence…….the distruction of property…the suicide attempts by my ex……..the crazy stuff that happened…….the lies,the stories,the threats…..the fear…..the tears………………and then my own collapse……….my breakdown……..and struggle to live with the guilt and all that happened as i blamed myself……….and then the truth came out and i saw that it was not my fault………that the breakup brought out the truth…..that she showed her true self and i dont think i ever knew that person at all………….i felt physically sick and suffered with panic attacks and anxiety aattacks for 2 and a half years………..and only in the past few months have i started to feel alittle better….cause i knew i couldnt keep going like i was………..i had to make myself move on and make myself recover or it was going to kill me.
thank you blossom4th for reminding me to take it one day at a time its all i do……….and as the days go by i get stronger………..god bless you.
tealight……….
thanks for the profound words……….god that struck home……..what you said about dealing with a profoundly disordered person…………..i need to keep hearing that.
know that she ends and you begin…………wow!!!!
that is a wonderful way of looking at it…..i needed to hear that……..
tealight………i was walking my dogs this morning local and when i looked over i saw my ex walk along the street……she never looked over once…….my heart sank……….its like seeing a ghost every time………she lives near by and so its hard as i know i could see her around………..its hard to get past someone when your trying to let go and move on and then you see them….
when i saw her i got very down and i cried…all i could think of was my god i loved her for so long…..gave my heart…….wanted everything with her………..but its all gone now………..i thought to myself ……….she lied about everything…….and its the cancer that is killing me ……….ill never understand how she could have done that to me………..i thought she loved me……we were married you see………2 months after we married she told me she had the cancer……….and ill always remember a card she gave me that used to mean something and now it just means betrayal……….it was a valintines day card and she stuck a picture of our wedding photo on it…..and she said………..i love you so much…….thank you for all your support during my cancer…i could not have gotten through it without you…!
i look at that now and i feel disgust………i feel sick………..i feel betrayed……..our wedding day meant nothing to her…….how could you love someone to do that to them….i have cancer she told me…….those word will forever echo in my head and heart and those words will forever make me fear trusting another.
thanks again tealight and i send you blessings.
learus ohnine,
thanks soo much for your advice and for recommending your site ill defo pay a visit…….its a special thing when people that have suffered come together to help each other….you are truely a blessing and i am truely greatful for all the advice…..
anothervictim,
thank you for sharing your story………im so glad you found out the truth about that woman and you didnt get caught up in her web…….it is so easy to get reeled in…im thankful you have a wonderful wife and i pray you will be safe from people like her…….i can truey understand feeling the anger and wanting to hit out…..its not easy or a comfortable feeling how they make us feel……please look after yourself and you are armed now with the knowledge as you move forward what someone like that is capable of……..i send you light and blessing and pray this experience will be behind you for good.
i dont know where i go from here?
how do you recover?
i want to.
i dont want to be a fraud….like her………..i dont want to be a user and liar and manipulator……
for 16 years i loved her…….wanted everything with her…….a life,wanted to buy a house,have a social life,wanted to go on holidays……wanted everything you would want with a partner………but when it ended she told me ….they were my dreams not hers……….i was devasted to hear that……as i wanted a life with her and i spend 16 years with her thinking she wanted the same……but i got tired of saying to her about a job,i got used to any job she got only lasting a week or most a few weeks….and there was always some excuse….and because she was always sick or had some ailment i became the carer….and if your a carer and a parent in a relationship then your not the lover……..i wanted so much to have a full relationship but i didnt…..i was the one who wanted to buy our own home and was saving for that and i knew if i did buy a house it would be me who bought it…..and me who paid for the bills..i always knew it…..and if we went out socially i paid for the night and i would give her money to have in her pocket……and we never went on holidays cause i couldnt afford to pay for both of us so we didnt go…….and im ashamed to tell you all here……i resented it…….i wanted us to have a life……….and i resented it……i became a carer and i let it happen and i resented the role i played…..im ashamed.
i knew she lied to me about stuff but i accepted it…i was in a codependent relationship and i didnt want to lose her…..felt i couldnt cope so despite the resentments i wanted to be with her…..cause she was my best friend and my sister but not lover……and as the years went on i became more the carer especially after the cancer…………and i couldnt flip back ….and we were both young…..i changed as a person and wanted more from life…..but she didnt…….and im ashamed to say but because i hate lies and i will never false represent myself i will tell you i allowed myself to have feelings for someone else…………in 2010 my closest friend died of cancer and another friend commited suicide…..i was in a bad place when i began to feel something for someone else…..i never met the person or was ever physical with them…as they lived in another country……i told me ex straight away…….i had feelings for someone….i guess i couldnt not tell her…..i thought we would talk about what changes could be made to make life different……i thought we will get throught this…i was niave thought…….the day after i told her………the veil dropped…………i didnt know who this other person was that revealed themselves………i know now………….she saw the hold and control she had on me being let go and she lost it………..the day after i told her….she had a breakdown……..she made suicide threats…..and would disappear from the house and return covered in blade marks and tell me someone else had done it….told me she had been raped…..and a whole crazy story about a woman locking her in a house and about guns and being cut by this other woman…….lots and lots of stories which i know now never happend…….one day we had a huge row and all i can remember was she came at me and punched me in the back of the head and i got knocked down…..ill never forget that day..i was so afraid after i sat on the kitchen floor screaming at her to leave me alone,during these times she destroyed property and all we did was argue………..i used to lock myself in the spare room at night cause i was afraid of her……it was all so surreal……like it didnt happen to me………it was someone else……..
im ashamed to say because of the upset with me ex…..i got pushed futher towards the other person who was there for me…..and it was at this stage what i didnt realise was there would never be any salvaging my relationship…….my ex left the house at this point and never returned……after that she ended up in psychiatric hospital for 2 months….she would call me from the hospital and ask me to bring her down food and cigerettes and there i was still running around after her…….i felt our relationship was truely over at this point and my inner compass guided me that i was doing the right thing………..to be honest i hadnt a clue what lay ahead or what i was doing…………
at this point i got involved with the other person…….what a fool i was…………this other person pushed forward in a relationship that i was not ready for as i hadnt dealt with the grief of loss of my past relationship…and i fell apart..i should have ended it with this person but i didnt and she and i both suffered…..it was a relationship that was not healthy and because i was broken i hurt this person badly and she got entangled in my problems………i was involved with this person for 2 years during which the truth came out about my ex…….my life fell apart……..and i wasnt sure what i wanted….i tried to return to my ex but she told me i was a s**t and a w***e…..and she told me she would never take me back………and that was even after i knew about all her lies…..its just i grieved her loss so much from my life…i felt i could handle what she did to me but not her loss from my life…….i must have asked her over 200 times did she want to try again and every time all i got was no and more abuse from her………so eventually i realised there was no returning and i had to except that and i needed to be on my own ……so i took time on my own and being on my own i had to face things…..i grieved the loss of my relationship over the few years already but i had to face what she did…..it was only when i knew there was no going back i realised throught he councelling that she had abused me…..and how could i even have her in my life…………i cant.
i cant be around her and its sad,we cant be friends…..she is not my sister……….she was like family to me……….is sad but even thought she was like family i have to let go….and move on to save myself…
she could destroy me and i know it……………
so you see i feel like a fraud……..i did something i was ashamed of and i paid a bitter price…………but i feel that my friend who died of cancer that year went up and looked down and saw what my ex did and she moved heaven and earth to get me out of that relationship only i was pulled throught the eye of a needle……..some times i think i wish i was back in that relationship and i knew nothing…….they say ignorance is bliss…..but then i wouldnt know the truth……so which is better….to know the truth or not?
i know the truth now….its being a painful journey but im glad i know.i suffered alot because of things my ex did to me and it wasnt right….
i also know if this other person did not come into my life i would not have found out the truth……so i am thankful for this person…….
she is a good person who got caught up in a mess in my life and even though i hurt her desperately she had stuck around and been a friend and support to me….which i am greatful for.
i dont want to be ashamed anymore…….ashamed of my behaviour for leaving a relationship in a bad way……….i wish i had left cause i knew the truth not cause of how it ended……im a woman in my 40`s and i want a physical relationship with someone someday again……and i dont want to be a parent to a partner or a mother figure…and i dont want to be a carer in a relationship……i want an equal relationship and i dont want to be used or lied to…and i realise i dont need to give to be loved…..im worthy of love …..so i guess i have learned the lesson…….
ok i have gone on alittle here so im sorry…..
but i want to be honest about who i am………..i never meant to hurt my ex in how my relationship ended………….but turns out she never thought about how much her actions were hurting me.
many thanks for listening……..nite
I have been off and on with the Spath for over 10 years now. I went no contact for 6 months last year”.and then it happened. Loneliness set in and it was almost like a bird whispered in his ear. The Spath contacted me and he came over for a weekend. Big mistake on my part. I have to start all over again. BUT”after he left for the umteenth time back in September, I decided I needed to post words of encouragement on my bathroom mirror to help me move forward. I went NC and read these words everyday. I even posted a Pros and Cons list about him next to my words of encouragement. There were 3 pros and 15 cons. (Evil not being one of them, although it should have been). Well, it had become such an intricate part of my daily routine that I completely forgot the list was even on my mirror. Fast forward to a few weeks ago when he contacted me and came over for the weekend. After he left on Sunday, he texted me and asked if he was an immature drunk. I asked him who told him that. He said “I read it on your mirror”. For a very brief moment I felt ashamed to have said such things about him and that he saw it. I asked him if he was offended and he replied “would you be?” I said “Not if it was true”. That was three weeks ago and I haven’t talked to him since. I wonder if reading such “truth” made him realize that I knew exactly what kind of person he was. I had NEVER in the 10 years told him what I really thought about him. Always being nice and biting my lip as to not offend him and loved him even with his “faults”. Well, I think his “EYES” were opened to see for himself what kind of person I thought of him. Funny thing is, he had to look at himself in the mirror as he read my Cons! Schnoodle64 1 – Spath 0