I love my wikipedia. I learn a lot I didn’t know and I refine my thinking by finding fault too. (The problem is knowing what is worth learning and what needs unlearning!)
Consider the wikipedia definition of evil:
Evil is generally defined as any activity which takes advantage of another person for one’s own benefit….(In contrast, good is helping others, even sometimes self-sacrificially; see saint, sainthood.)
There’s something dodgy about the form of this definition and also something very familiar about its implications. For one thing, it fits with the the lable ‘anti-social’ which refers to behaviour which has ill effects, but good intentions – “well, in his culture that behaviour is normal”. Whatever happened to ill intent, though? (For another thing, what’s the counterpart to sainthood?)
According to this view all employers are evil because they necessarily pay their employees less than they earn (‘necessarily’ because otherwise there would be no profit).
The definition attempts to define evil by contrasting it with good. So far so, um, good. But then it weighs them up wrongly, and we are left with a picture of evil that is indistinguishable from graspingness and greed. According to this view evil might have ill effects on the other, but that is not the intention; its primary intention is to gain advantage.
This is a fine example of how thinking about evil can go askew. (And, I suspect, thinking about good too.)
By re-balancing the wording of the above definition another meaning of evil becomes clear.
If good is helping another (possibly involving self-sacrifice) then it follows that evil is harming another (possibly involving self-benefit).
This is all the difference in the world. Now we can see the true intention of evil – it is to do harm. Evil is only secondarily about want, appetite, greed, jealousy; it’s true nature is malevolence, envy, cruelty, viciousness. Indeed, for evil the getting of things is happily foregone if what is primary can be achieved: power over another.
What say you?
Back_from_the_edge
Evilness is/are those wicked things done with ill intent.
Full well knowing the consequences and not caring.
Doing it anyway, no matter what, for personal gain
with a vile heart.
First time I read this: thanks Steve.
Buttons: I could so grasp what you were saying:
“The next time you see the protege, reach down deep and
imagine where she’ll be in the next 6 months and smile gently
on her with genuine pity.”
Absolutely.
Dupey
Annie
Thanks for pulling up this thread, Dupey. It’s a great article.
I wonder what on earth happened to “Dr. Steve” – I actually joined LF because of his articles, but he stopped posting here about that time. Wherever he is, I wish him well.
The other day someone on here was talking about the phrase “see no evil …”. My FIL gave me a different definition of it (based on its origins) than what you normally hear, so I was looking it up to see if I could find a reference. I came across the following, which I thought was another pretty awsome definition of evil:
I think Dr. Steve might have appreciated this perspective too.
EDIT: Here’s the source for the quote above, in case anyone is interested: http://benj.wrytestuff.com/swa315836.htm
Back_from_the_edge
Hi Annie: yes, your quote is very good.
I am not sure what happened to Dr. Steve but I too
wish him well. His articles have been very helpful.
I think he would appreciate that perspective too.
The Three Monkeys – that rings a bell with me.
Three WISE Monkeys….that is the thing.
Thanks Annie.
Hope you are well and safe on your journey.
Dupey
skylar
Hi Annie,
I always enjoy your perspective and insights, thanks for adding that bit about the asian perspective and the monkeys.
Steve’s article reminded me of Girardian theory.
Steve says that evil is only secondarily about want and greed, that primarily it is about malevolence. Girardian theory says the opposite.
Yes, it is human nature to THINK that evil is NOT about wanting and envying, because to admit that shame and envy are the root of evil, makes us all a bit guilty of evil and we REALLY want to differentiate between US, the flawed envious beings and THEM, those malevolent creatures who have NO LIMITS.
But the truth, as Girard explains, is that our social structure was built on shame and envy. Spaths just take it to another level. This shame and envy corrodes their souls and their ability to have any empathy for anyone but themselves. But it BEGINS in the same place for all of us. We just made a different turn in the road for some reason.
That’s why I like Girard so much. His books seem long and complicated but in the end, he is just making his case for a very simple premise: shame, envy and rivalry are the basis for evil. Then, from evil, comes destruction, death, malevolence, etc…
I’ve just been through an event that has confirmed this for me personally. I witnessed how shame could create so much evil. It was extremely sad to observe.
Back_from_the_edge
Hi everyone…((Thanks Truthspeak)) for the note…
Yes, I am healing. The panic attacks have taken a while to
get over. That hyper-vigilance mode. Then, on top of all of
this nightmare with “IT”, I have been trying to recover and heal
from my heart attack and two subsequent surgeries, so, it has been
a very bewildering time, the past few years.
It’s funny: I have LF bookmarked with this article.
I know what I witnessed and experienced. “THAT” is NOT
of this world, whatever “THAT” was. It has made me MORE
than agoraphobic these days and I never have been one to
be easily intimidated but what “I” saw and experienced was
like being the presence of the devil himself.
We all have a choice which path we will follow.
We can follow the light or we can follow the darkness.
THEIR BEHAVIORS are a CHOICE for them. We all have the
same choices to make in our lives. I found that ppaths
are actually ‘fatalists’ in their line of thinking and
in their ‘reasoning’ abilities. If they weren’t, they
wouldn’t have to be always ‘scheming’ and ‘plotting’ and
lying and playing people the way they do.
I never thought I would be at the point where I am in my healing.
When I turned it all away from me and said: “NO” – “No more” and
put an end to it a little over 11 months ago now, I absolutely
meant it and I still do now. It has taken having to show some
resolution and my having to use ‘persuasions’ but for the most
part, I think “IT” finally gets the point now. But, yes, I AM
healing from this and the longer I keep NC, the stronger I get.
The farther away I get from hearing that voice, or having to
look in those shark-like eyes and listening to screeches instead
of normal conversations…the farther away I get from the abuse
and the manipulations, the more I see it all. And, the more I
see it all, the more resolved I become. Who was it that said:
“adamant”? That is a great word.
I am finding myself again.
The ‘myself’ I didn’t think possible to find.
It is a ‘different’ ‘self’ I find now but it’s
a MORE AWARE and self preserving ‘self’. Like
I ADORE the peace and the quiet. It is incomprehensible
the things I have been through with this monster. Most people
don’t understand at all. They tend to think it’s “ME” with the
problem because they have never had the unfortunate experience
of meeting it in person. You can immediately and instantly ‘tell’
there is something just not right. However, my caring and concern
was the mark of my torture and manipulation all these years. They
take everything that is good and righteous and pure and taint it
with their poison and they find it delightfully enjoying to be the
center of attention at all times. Life isn’t for everyone…it’s
only for them, you see. Stick around long enough and they will
find a way to take it from you. They are the kind of people that
when they walk into a room, all of the air is instantly sucked out.
Ah, but the web of magic they spin around us, with their twinkling
eyes and pretty words…those are all acts but you would think an
experienced person, such as myself, would have seen this coming…
I wasn’t just treated badly, I was psychologically shoved off the
edge of a cliff. I never smacked on the bottom, but my heart
attack was a TRUE ‘new beginning’ for me. It was like The Powers
That Will gave my life back to me, just one more time…but, in
order for me to make this little bit of life work for me now, I
simply MUST keep “IT” far, far, far, away from me. I would go to
Mars if I knew “IT” could not come there.
Betrayal is not a strong enough word for what happened.
There is no word for it except: ‘unforgivable’ and ugly.
Counseling has been a very important part of my recovery.
I have been taking medication for my depression and for my
PTSD and I have removed ALL of the STRESS factors out of my
life as much as I possibly can and don’t feel sorry about it
anymore when I speak up and tell someone I feel they are way
out of line….I prefer to keep to myself and to be left alone.
The kids are all grown and on their own. I am going to be
adopting a small puppy soon. I don’t know who he is or where
I shall find him but he already has a name: “Skippy”, and well,
I just know he is out there, somewhere, just waiting on me to spoil
him….
This has definitely changed me as a person.
Forever now. There is no ‘going back’. There is no apology
that could ever be rendered that can replace the broken trust.
Then, again, they aren’t concerned about things like trust…
character, virtues…they are only concerned about THEMSELVES.
Period. It’s always all their way, all the time. They dominate
your life and try your soul on and then forget to give it back.
I can see them coming now, from more than a mile away.
It’s almost like they have their own particular ‘scent’.
Anyways, I am rambling…
Please say a little prayer for this old bitty…
She is staring eternity smack dab in the face but yet,
still trying to keep on – keepin’ on.
Blessings this Holy Season.
Dupey
bluemosaic
Hi All,
I had thought I would go to my cave to heal, but I realize this feeling of having strayed too far from the “mother ship”, i.e. LF) and I cannot breath.
I was entangled with evil, this man has left me with the feeling of having a defiled soul.
I am now seeing the collateral damage to my life. It has come to my attention that my children and I no longer have the bond we once did. I think they lost respect for me. I am nothing like I was before I met the evil-man that destroyed my hope and joy, took my self-respect and discarded me like trash.
I am fearful that I will not heal, that the damage he has done to my heart,mind and soul is permenent. It seems like I live in the twilight zone…my grasp on reality is thin somedays. Not having a good day here.
D2, My e-mess to you was heartfelt and meant deeply, but as you can see…I am tottering on a tightrope.
Did he win everyone? He took so much from and out of me…his desire to destroy has been very effective….how to cope?
Blue
Tea Light
Dupey,
Skippy…adorable. I hope he or she brings you much love and joy and companionship. What you have been posting over recent days is so inspirational. What you say here ” I found that ppaths are actually ’fatalists’ in their line of thinking and in their ’reasoning’ abilities. If they weren’t, they wouldn’t have to be always ’scheming’ and ’plotting’ and lying and playing people the way they d” chimes with a conclusion I reached about my abuser. He pretends to believe in God, (a convenient mask to pull in unsuspecting women who have a spiritual life plus makes him look ‘normal’ ‘morally aware’ in his community)
In reality , he is God less and soulless and nihilistic. As you say here, fatalistic; cynical of others’ motives ( projection, natch)highly interpersonally exploitative with the women in his life who he aims to possess and control – which is a fear based way of behaving in relationships.
They are spiritually and morally empty. They believe in nothing but the myths their own egos tell them about themselves, and my abuser doesn’t even believe those myths he tells himself (”my marriages fail because of my wives” ”I deserve whatever I want”) because he is in fact full of self loathing and dependent on constant external adoration. My abuser beleives life is a swamp , a scary dog eat dog swamp full of threats ( immigrants, death, abandonment, illness, men who are better looking and younger and richer an smarter than him.
Certainly will be saying a prayer for you, Dupey, and many blessings to you too , have a wonderful Easter x
Tea Light
Blue, ”Did he win everyone? He took so much from and out of me”his desire to destroy has been very effective”.how to cope?”
You breathe, Blue, and you sit, and you don’t try and force yourself to heal faster than you can, and you read, and you talk to us, and to a counselor, and you sleep, and rest, and eat, and pray,( if appropriate for you) and meditate, and you reach out to trusted people , and you float, and you let time pass.
He has won nothing. It is not a game and it is not a competitition. He won nothing. At all. He just behaved destructively because he’s sociopathic and that is what they do. That is what they are. There is no game plan, no winnings, no rewards, they just destroy because they can and that’s the path they chose in this life. You can be a destroyer too if you chose. Or me. And either of us can see what we’d win by behaving like that. What do you reckon Blue? Anything worth having? Broken hearts to hang on your bed post? Some stolen money? People in tears because you lied to them, sexually abused them, humilated them? We can go after their ‘rewards’ and their ‘wins’ if we want Blue. You aren’t going to do that though, and neither are any of us here that aren’t like them. You will be OK. You will, you’ll be OK. Give it some time. x
To Be Free
Yesterday I felt strong…today I don’t.
Today, I am missing him…..or I have been missing the good times we had. Too much sadness. And then the thought of him with the new victim. We had only been broken up 2 months and he is already saying “I love you” to this new one. OMG. I does hurt.
I don’t miss the lying and jerking my emotions around!
Anyway….. just wanted to vent.
blowshope
Please understand that evil is a lot more serious than just the opposite of good. It is a very relentless powerful force bent on destruction and decay. Death, perversion, deception, harm, violence, torture, and psychological torment. It will stop at nothing to achieve its ultimate goal, death in one form or another. The only thing that eradicates this force of darkness is light and love. These people have chosen to be vehicles of the evil and eventually they WILL be destroyed.